Mini Normal 1980: TwoInAMillion - The First Game(Town Win!)

[Sephiroth]

VOTE: Sephiroth for using my love of the character to pull the wool over my eyes when you were scum

<3

last time someone asked people to sheep the person voting them, that player flipped scum.

VOTE: fro99er

The last time someone was named UC Voyager, that player flipped scum.

vote: UC Voyager

[Sephiroth]

VOTE: Seph

I just gotta vote you after last game <3

Come on, don't be like that...I promise I won't conspicuously pocket you this time!

[Sephiroth]

Have you played with UCV before?

Don't think so but they seemed like the right person to vote at the time.

[Sephiroth]

So am I supposed to think you're scummy or are you 'gambiting' or something?

[Sephiroth]

because thats -1, just gonna throw that out there. Its page 2.

[Sephiroth]

VOTE: Fro99er

You already did that silly.

[Sephiroth]

I don't think hes trolling but I also don't think there's an acceptable reason to put someone at -1 when you think they're town. Maybe he is a jester, who the fuck knows.

unvote, vote: flavorleaf

[Sephiroth]

Seems extra, but may Sephiroth hasn't played in a while.

I just played my first game in like 5 years, but I still think a -1 on someone you view as town is scummy. For a little context, I just played a game with TIAM in which he quickhammered and several town players legit tried to play it off as his meta and that he was someone TOWN from that.

I do acknowledge that the game is played a lot looser than when I was last playing frequently, but come on now.

[Sephiroth]

And I would do it again.

[Sephiroth]

Really?

Obviously I'm not convinced that flavor is scum but I think it deserved a vote. L-1 on D1 is scummy, regardless of what is said after the fact, but why y'all acting like I'm sitting here calling flavor confscum?

[Sephiroth]

Explain how I'm flailing stitch?

The seemingly ungenuine inquisitiveness of him. He questioned and elaborated on things I found unnecessary.

Bit of a stretch given that it was page 2 and I was doing other game related stuff but okay.

[Sephiroth]

Screen, are you town this game?

[Sephiroth]

Really?

Obviously I'm not convinced that flavor is scum but I think it deserved a vote. L-1 on D1 is scummy, regardless of what is said after the fact, but why y'all acting like I'm sitting here calling flavor confscum?

Is this directed at me? Cuz if so, you're misrepping me; I never said you called him confscum, nor am I acting like you called him that.

Its directed at the wagon at large which got me to -2 based on poop nuggets.

I'm asking about your vote because the way you reacted to the L-1 is kinda similar to how you responded to Flubber last game, and I dunno; this feels low-hanging-fruit-y tbh.

This is how I like to play early D1, but I understand your concern since you've only see me play once and I was scum.

Especially with this since you're defending your FL vote, when a lot of interesting things have happened between now and then, but haven't really reacted to like any of them, except for a post Yoshi made about you. It's an easily defendable position for you to take (L-1 on someone you call town is bad!), but I don't see any obvious scum motivation for someone to do that either tbh. I have a feeling we might get into the 'but there isn't town motivation either' thing, and this is kinda why I feel like it's similar to how you reacted to Flubber.

I don't really find most things that happen in RVS that interesting or noteworthy. You want me to comment on whether Yoshi saying hi was awkward or not? I find something to push a little and I vote for it. Last game it was flubbers "not me" post and in this game its -1ing on someone you say is town. I guess all y'all know who boon is and that makes it okay for him but I have no clue.

---

Explain how I'm flailing stitch?

You're focused entirely on your defense and nothing else.

I'm a defensive player for the most part, but feel free to scumread me for that. However its worth noting that what I'm defending is a vote I made on someone that I thought was scummy, and then was put at -2 for it. Being at -2 for no reason is a higher priority than attempting to fabricate an opinion that I don't have at this point in the game.

And thats not what flailing means, though, fyi.

Putting someone at L-1 early can come from both alignments, it just comes down to how gutsy the voter is rather than individual playstyle.

I was fine with Seph initially but I don't like this flailing.

Just because I’m popular, you all don’t think I’m scummy? What is this madness? Scum is likely defending me somewhere.

I don't have a read on you yet. I pointed it out to Seph to try and get them to look in a different direction in hopes that they would produce something more telling. The fact that they ignored that part of my post and stayed on the defensive is something I really dislike.

Different direction? I'm the only one who called him scummy for this and voted him. What do you mean, trying to get me to look at something else? fucking LOL dude read the thread.

I don't like the way you joined my wagon at all. Tentatively over 3 posts coming around to thinking I'm scum only makes sense if theres a strong reason to think I'm scum. This 'oh well I gave him a chance to talk about other stuff' feels very contrived when my decision to defend myself makes perfect sense.

Like why do you think its important to jump on me for not engaging with the game when I've done far more to than either UC Voyager or Lalendra? It seems like youre deciding to join the wagon then finding the reason to scum read me rather than the other way around.

unvote, vote: stitch

---

Lalendra's activity doesn't seem AI to me based on the last game I played with her where she did the exact same thing as town.

[Sephiroth]

I guess all y'all know who boon is and that makes it okay for him but I have no clue

@Seph - I don’t understand why this relevant. That makes it okay? That makes what okay? I put Froggy to L-1, sure, but he very much had his own vote on himself, and anyone who would hammer would be putting a giant target on their back. Could a lynch have happened? Yes. Was it likely to? No, and you know what, it didn’t.

Huh? I'm trying to explain why it seems like everyone else is overlooking the vote you made. I'm not saying I consider it okay, I'm saying that I guess thats why no one else is batting an eye, that everyone who knows you seems to think this is part of your meta. As for whether a quick lynch happens or not is fairly anecdotal. I've seen town quickhammer recently and in my last game scum quickhammered and guess what? We still won because the town couldnt overcome the lack of insight provided EVEN with lynching the quickhammerer. I refuse to just pretend this is not a scummy thing to do because 'hes boon' or whatever. Thats the whole point of the 'its okay' part.

Also, i’m not playing anti town. It’s less than 10 pages into the game, and I feel like I’m developing reads on people just as everyone else is. So I don’t understand the comment of “that makes it okay” because I’m Boon. I always play to win. Always. If anything, I take that more seriously than most people, I’m just not afraid to take some losses on the way there to help me figure out the game.

Again, I'm saying that your meta seems to excuse this behavior. I think its antitown but you're welcome to disagree.[/quote]

It’s also a bit weird that you said this, meaning you think something is ‘not okay’ normally, then go on Lilo there.

Yes, I think it is not okay normally and I feel like town is giving you a pass because they view it as your meta.

[Sephiroth]

To answer both people, I just think its something that she does at the beginning of games. I got her mislynched for it in our last game. I'm hesitant to give it much credence here. I guess everyone is just sitting here waiting to gang up on me huh?

[Sephiroth]

Yes, I think it is not okay normally and I feel like town is giving you a pass because they view it as your meta.

which means scum is the one not giving him a pass...

I was referring to the town at large? You guys are really bad at mafia =/

[Sephiroth]

stitch or UC Voyager.

[Sephiroth]

or Clusk

[Sephiroth]

I'm not claiming unless someone gives intent to hammer. Stop rolefishing.

[Sephiroth]

unvote, vote: fro99er

[Sephiroth]

I don't understand why people like playing with you. You're playing poorly and being a dick about it because I called you on it. Grow up.

[Sephiroth]

Mocking other players is fun for you?

[Sephiroth]

Regardless. We can take the personal shit elsewhere. You're playing poorly and I'm not claiming. Find something else to do with your time.

[Sephiroth]

Then stop being a jerky mc jerkface.

Also guys frogger is scum. Please do not hammer without letting me explain myself.

[Sephiroth]

Actually I take it back. Frogger isn't scum necessarily. I misconflated something they said with something yoshi said.

[Sephiroth]

Leaf, my whole point is that I didn't have knowledge of your meta before hand and that given that voting you in early D1 for that move made sense. I'm saying everyone else thinks its absurd that I would vote you BECAUSE they know your meta and this is just a thing you do as either alignment. I'm not sure what we're arguing about, I'm pretty sure we agree here?

---

Fro99er, it was dumb to ask me for a claim there. theres no intent to lynch me right now. So calling that point about rolefishing dumb is bad play. You were rolefishing there, sorry bud. no reason for a town aligned person to prematurely ask for claim when there was no intent to lynch.

To respond to that by mocking the argument is just childish and a way to avoid the reality that what you did was AI and scummy.

[Sephiroth]

I made this account when I was 14 what do you want from me lol

[Sephiroth]

Also its a sephiroth quote, do you not like sephiroth? best villain ever

[Sephiroth]

fro99er are you town?

screen are you town? You never answered earlier.

[Sephiroth]

Is there any reason youre trying to flood the thread with non-game related posts right after you rolefished and tried to bluff your way out of it?

[Sephiroth]

I made this account when I was 14 what do you want from me lol

2007 - 14 years old
2017/8 - 27 years old

???

Fine I was 16 fuck off lol

[Sephiroth]

Nope. I thought that was obvious.

[Sephiroth]

Fuck this is gonna be one of those 150 page games that no one can be bothered to reread isn't it. What did I get myself into =/

[Sephiroth]

Why do you think its pro-town to ask me for my role when theres no intent to lynch me? How does knowing my role help town? How is it painfully obvious that my role being known helps town?

[Sephiroth]

I’m just confused as to why you seemingly got hung up on that. Why does them saying it’s meta make it okay?

I'm saying them knowing your meta is why

they

consider it okay that you did that. I'm not saying your play is okay or that I necessarily think that its okay for them to disregard your behavior. I'm saying the reason THEY think its okay is they know your meta and don't consider the move you made to be AI. I'm not sure why this is hard to understand or why we're still talking about how I chose to phrase something. The only point I was making is they think its okay because of meta but I think dropping the -1 was scummy enough for a vote at that point in the game. I'm not sure how acknowledging the difference between how others were reading you and how I was reading you equates to getting hung up on it. You're the one who's hung up on it lol

[Sephiroth]

Why do you think its pro-town to ask me for my role when theres no intent to lynch me? How does knowing my role help town? How is it painfully obvious that my role being known helps town?

Does this include when there is intent to lynch?

Explicitly when there is not intent to lynch.

[Sephiroth]

Even if they didn’t know my meta, why would it be AI?

Uh. Thats my point? They don't consider it AI, ie they disregarded it, because of meta.

[Sephiroth]

Or are you asking why I would think its AI? The answer is I don't really, but it was early D1. If you've noticed I'm not still voting you and YOU are the one who is focussing solely on this. It was good enough for an early D1 vote and thats all.

I already explained why I feel its more likely a scum move than town move, when meta is removed, so I'm not sure what you're asking me about now.

[Sephiroth]

I think it creates the possibility of a quicklynch unnecessarily. There is no benefit to doing so as town. There is a benefit to a quicklynch occuring as scum. Like you can argue that player marks themselves as scum and therefore they wouldnt do it, but I still view the end result as a game state that hurts town because we lose any valuable discussion. I was JUST scum in a game in which TIAM quickhammered as scum and sure, he got lynched, but scum was in a position where it was incredibly hard to read us and we won, mostly as a result of lack of early game discussion (and also because I convinced skitter not to vote me)

Maybe I'm old school but to me its more likely a scum move than a town move.

And again, this was the whole point in noting that I don't think its a very strong lean to the scum side, but I do think its there and was worthy of my vote.

[Sephiroth]

fro99er are you town?

screen are you town? You never answered earlier.

Because it’s a stupid fucking question

That you are reluctant to answer.

[Sephiroth]

I am familiar with you, by the way. I believe the only people here I’m not familiar with are Cult and Lilo.

How? Have we played together or have you played with my main account?

[Sephiroth]

Does no one else find fro99er scummy for asking me to claim for no reason?

[Sephiroth]

Wait, it doesn’t matter what I answer, it’s a pointless question and is actually the only reason i’m not town reading Seph.

So town players don't ask this? Its pretty NAI if you ask me. Last game I was in this was asked several times, and was also a pretty common thing to ask when I used to play.

[Sephiroth]

I'm asking because he said hes not town reading me for it. Its a reasonable question.

[Sephiroth]

Can you tell me what page thats on? and whether there is a case against that person?

[Sephiroth]

or perhaps sentiment from other players that this is someone worth lynching?

[Sephiroth]

Seems to me page 52 is a pretty different story.

[Sephiroth]

My main is elias_the_thief, and I'm Shea's brother. Just so we're clear on who I am.

[Sephiroth]

Here's my personal theory on claiming: viewtopic.php?p=7498142#p7498142

meh.

unvote

.

I'm asking because he said hes not town reading me for it. Its a reasonable question.

Sure, but sketchy with how you phrased it. Seems like you're focused on doing what a townie would do.

Because he said hes NOT town reading me, not that he is scum reading me. If he said he was scum reading me I wouldve asked if he thinks its something only scum would do.

[Sephiroth]

Hey creature who do you scum read? Who do you town read?

[Sephiroth]

Yawn.

[Sephiroth]

There are some other players in this game right?

[Sephiroth]

This game is tiring and frustrating. I've been under siege from 4-5 players at all times for pretty much nothing. I don't really feel like dealing with it any more and I'm getting lynched today so you can all kindly move on. Do you not realize that when a player has their back to the wall all game they wiill have a lot of posts to find issue with? I haven't even had a chance to hunt because every time I log on 12 people are telling me I'm scum because I referred to the whole town as the town or some shit and I need to defend myself.

Fro99er you should be ashamed of yourself because you know thats not a tell. What, am I white knighting lalendra when she has one vote on her? Are we joking? Maybe it sticks out because I only learned the terminology last game and used it wrong. All I'm saying is she started the game exactly this was as town and I'm not going to immediately scum read her for that.

I'm done. Y'all are literally just bad at mafia and I'm not being lynched today. Find someone else to flagrantly misread.

[Sephiroth]

Stitch no one gives a fuck when you pop up every 15 pages to throw fabricated shade at me. I guess this dude who shows up every now and again to support the leading wagons and use comments about me to mask their utter lack of engagement with the game is somehow more townie than me.

[Sephiroth]

People who are pro-town: Creature FL screenplay yoshi COA
People who are not pro-town: STITCH skitter frogger transcend
People who are content to let me take the shit and not post: Clusk, UCV, Lalendra

[Sephiroth]

I don't understand why none of you want to wagon one of those last three. Its a low info lynch because all people have wanted to do is pile on me. WAGON SOMEONE ELSE. THATS HOW YOU GET MORE INFO. ITS FUCKING A WEEK FROM NOW.

[Sephiroth]

Being protown now is just a contest to see who can be the most dismissive of accusation. Did you see how he laughed at that? I better sheep him!

[Sephiroth]

You tell me.

[Sephiroth]

I'm not really counting

[Sephiroth]

But you want to know, you can count. Other people in this game can do stuff, who'd have thunk it?

[Sephiroth]

Your reads suck

[Sephiroth]

Vacuums suck.

[Sephiroth]

unvote, vote: lalendra

I just bold my votes, I don't really use the [ v ] tag.

[Sephiroth]

The fact that this is their first game in 5 years is annoying, though, beacuse it means I can't research their past games.

All I want to know is why Mulch is pretending that he thinks this is my first game in five years despite the fact that he was in my last game (which actually was my first in 5 years). I get that you're alting and all but this seems like an unnecessary lie to me.

[Sephiroth]

Does Mulch blow up so easily as town? Not only do I find a lot of the things he said illogical, but it really doesn't strike me as genuine emotion for how minor a pretext it had. Maybe he's appealing to his meta?

I highly recommend reading his entrance to 1963 as replacement (everyone should read and compare). He was VT there and he did self-destruct but I personally think its markedly different here.

There's also the fact that before he was outed as an alt he was trying to pretend he was frustrated being unable to meta me, even though he was in that game and initially scum read me before calling me obvtown. I'm definitely leaning scum on him.

[Sephiroth]

You wanna address why you were pretending to have no ability to meta me?

[Sephiroth]

Any reason you're answering for him?

[Sephiroth]

And yes.

[Sephiroth]

To me the fact that he stresses he can't research past games when he had actually just been in a game with me feels contrived and something that town wouldnt say there. I think saying that this is my first game in five years is a lie that he wouldn't need to tell if he didn't feel the need to add fluff to his read.

[Sephiroth]

That didn't stop you from calling me as 'classic horrible town' in our last game together did it?

[Sephiroth]

But you likewise had no meta and didn't make a show about how frustrated you were that you couldn't meta me and you didn't hesitate to just call me one thing or another. I'm just curious why you're frustrated in this game when, if anything, you should be less frustrated as their is more to analyze than before.

[Sephiroth]

Okay so I guess I can't ask someone questions without someone harassing me about it. Back to not posting I guess.

I caught the dude in a lie and I'm not sure why you're defending it/preventing me from having a 1v1 with Mulch. You're entirely too invested in defending him and it seems like you're not interested in reading the game to compare the explosion so I dunno what to say. It seems like you're more interested in summarily dismissing any scum read on mulch then actually getting a read on him.

[Sephiroth]

How does a 1v1 suck lmao

[Sephiroth]

You're also in some position to comment, since in both my games all you've accomplished is replacing in and immediately getting yourself lynched or very close to it in both. The whole 'I'm better than you at mafia' thing only works if you have results to back it up.

[Sephiroth]

Maybe if I was permitted to get a train of thought or put multiple posts together without someone immediately questioning it I would be able to accomplish something. I don't care if you think it makes sense to you frankly. I don't think you're very good at scumhunting.

Apparently you don't know what defending means?

[Sephiroth]

Because I was on a fucking alt and giving away the meta would give away who I WAS. So I had to conjure bullshit to rationalize why you were town in the first place.

I thought you couldn't meta me because I was scum that game? I don't understand how you all seem to change meta to fit whatever definition you happen to need at any particular second.

[Sephiroth]

I refuse to blame my play for being lynched every game while on other sites I am townread and lynched at a normal rate and only on mafiascum am I lynched day 1 consistently. I refuse

Has it ever occurred to you that adaptation is a part of mafia? Adapt to the meta here or stop playing, but don't complain that "IM TOWN OVER THERE" it literally does not matter.

[Sephiroth]

The part where you say that and then two posts later say that you did meta me as town?

[Sephiroth]

Well its not actually gonna be helpful to keep poking you but I'm pretty sure you're scum.

Stitch is the best wagon though, looking forward to see what FL has to say on Stitch.

[Sephiroth]

Well its not actually gonna be helpful to keep poking you but I'm pretty sure you're scum.

Stitch is the best wagon though, looking forward to see what FL has to say on Stitch.

So you think I'm bussing Stitch, idiot?

I think its D1. I'm sorry you are so insecure about your intelligence =/ I think you're actually pretty smart.

[Sephiroth]

Oh well.

My point is just that I'm not gonna worry about associates right now. I'm happy wagoning either of you and your behavior towards each other is no reason to disregard my reads.

[Sephiroth]

no reason for me to disregard my own read, I mean,

[Sephiroth]

Hmm, that’s a really good post by Skitter.

By good do you mean town-smelling or convincing? What if anything does the post do for your mulch read?

[Sephiroth]

So all that to say, you still town read mulch?

[Sephiroth]

Hmm, that’s a really good post by Skitter.

By good do you mean town-smelling or convincing? What if anything does the post do for your mulch read?

I mean, good play. If he’s scum, and Mulch town, then that’s a fantastic post by Skitter. If Skitter is town, and Mulch is town, Skitter feels he has legitimate reason to push Mulch. If Mulch is scum, and Skitter is town, damn, Skitter caught you good. If they’re both scum, then their theatre is great. I don’t agree with a lot of skitter’s posts necessarily, but some people definitely will, and in Mafia, you don’t need everyone to agree with you.

A) she

B) this post is sooo incredibly fence-sitty and non-committal, given that you accounted for how your statement could be read no matter the alignments of me/mulch.

I also feel like its waaaaay overthought for a relatively simple question.

[Sephiroth]

Oh Mulch. What are we gonna do with you =/

[Sephiroth]

I thought 425 was pretty incriminating.

hows that?

Wanna do Stitch? Or Transcend?

Stitch! Ohana means family...Mafia family.

unvote, vote: stitch

[Sephiroth]

How was this not answered? I 100% answered this question. You asked what i meant by good essentially, and I explained it in a lot of detail.

I’ve already stated my Mulch read.

I guess I implicitly agreed to that when I quoted skit, my bad. I really just felt like you over explained it, which isn't really a big deal necessarily.

[Sephiroth]

I'm not sure I agree that skitter's game here isn't her town game tbh.

[Sephiroth]

mulch will you come back and vote for stiches pls

[Sephiroth]

skitter you too, let's all vote stitch

[Sephiroth]

Don't especially want to right now. I'm pretty sure I'm voting scum.

Why tunnel when you can wagon instead? There's plenty of day remaining.

[Sephiroth]

happy new hyear I'm drunk as shit flavor I fucking love you

[Sephiroth]

I don't think you're very good at scumhunting.

There’s absolutely no need for shit like this. Just makes the game toxic.

Lol

[Sephiroth]

It is 2018 my dudes

[Sephiroth]

My resolution is to stop being such a toxic mafia player

[Sephiroth]

Man this is quite the game for outing alts. Should I switch to elias_the_thief to be on theme?

[Sephiroth]

Oh thats a hydra nvm

[Sephiroth]

I'm not sure what to make of UC =/

[Sephiroth]

The game has certainly stagnated but I honestly think that has to do mostly with the holiday.

That said, there is no consensus on who we should be wagoning or lynching. Very fragmented right now.

I will acknowledge that I may have been pocketed/WKed by Creature but either way I don't think they're a good lynch today.

Stitch or Mulch are the people I would most be interested in lynching. Might be down for a lalendra lynch but she still hasn't done anything too sketchy yet.

[Sephiroth]

Who are you into lynching today? Who are you hardline not into lynching today?

[Sephiroth]

Yeah I'm not gonna lie, I don't think Creature belongs with UC and Voyager. Stitch could be put in that pile maybe but not Creature

[Sephiroth]

I'm pretty bad at scumhunting D1 and the game is stagnating so this is where I'm at rn:

Town pile

: Creature FL YoshiFan Srcreenplay

Lurker pile

: COA UCV Lalendra

Scumlean pile

: Skitter Mulch

Scummy pile:

Stitch Transcend Fro99er

I used blue bc TIAM said his mod color is green. As a side note, you might want to change that for future games =D

[Sephiroth]

Anyone not in the town pile I'm open to lynching. My scum lean pile isn't far from my scummy pile, its just that my reads on both of those players are based on relatively weak meta so I don't trust it as much.

I'm also worried that a mulch lynch doesnt tell us all that much since its not really unreasonable to be on either side of his lynch based on his meta.

[Sephiroth]

transcend do you have a preferred lynch or just town reads at this point?

[Sephiroth]

...what?

[Sephiroth]

In real life or in mafia?

[Sephiroth]

I'm having a bit of an identity crisis as a scumhunter this game. Most of my reads are based on gut. I'm having a hard time deciding between reading certain players two completely different ways. So yeah. Wish I could explain my reads better, but thats what they are right now.

I feel less good about srceen than when I made that post but meh.

[Sephiroth]

Well Mulch definitely isn't town.

[Sephiroth]

In real life or in mafia?

Let’s say in real life.

In case this gets lost, here it is again.

Is my lack of answer not answer enough?

I'd say I'm a people pleaser if I like the person enough.

[Sephiroth]

Well Mulch definitely isn't town.

Why

Because I just experienced him blowing up as town in 1963 and this feels more put on. I also don't like that he lied about not being able to find a game on me. He could've just not mentioned meta at all since it was a slight thing or he could've just said he checked out a game of mine. Much like he was lying about that frustration I feel that hes manufacturing his frustration at being lynched.

[Sephiroth]

Is that the same kind answer for when you play mafia?

I don't like to be lynched but thats about as far as it goes. I'm not sure how the question translates to mafia tbh, how do you 'please' someone in mafia, exactly?

[Sephiroth]

But clusk was town

Why

[Sephiroth]

Youre going to take 4 posts, one a RVS vote, over the entire rest of the thread?

[Sephiroth]

I'm aware of the thing you said about this, I just don't think it makes sense.

[Sephiroth]

And your reads list was people pleasing as hell. Nobody should be town reading me right now. I’m intentionally playing in a way so people won’t be town reading me as of right now.

VOTE: Sephiroth

My reads list was me writing my gut feeling on every player at the time. I gut read you town. My list was my attempt to move us towards something like consensus as the end of the day draws near.

Still pretty sure that Stitch is scum.

[Sephiroth]

This whole roundabout way as a way to vote me doesnt really make sense though. Like asking a vague hypothetical question, not posting about anything else the whole time, literally just waiting to push me once I answered? If you knew you were gonna vote me for other stuff why this ridiculous drawn out gag?

[Sephiroth]

and Mulch stated that he’s the other neighbor.

Just for sake of clarity will you confirm this?

[Sephiroth]

I was trying to go to bed why'd everyone decide to post now =/

[Sephiroth]

What was the point of this question if you don’t see how someone can be a people pleaser in mafia? This is fake fluff question.

Also, the point of the question was because I didn't understand how you meant it in mafia so I was asking if you meant in mafia or not, and why I had an answer for real life but not really for mafia.

[Sephiroth]

I'm not sure why you're arguing about this, they're both fine wagons.

[Sephiroth]

Side note, I'll be rereading and trying to articulate my reads better today. I've been busy at work and I usually like to write out big posts when I'm taking a mental break from my work (web dev).

[Sephiroth]

Seph, now that you're calmer, why am I scum?

Side note, I'll be rereading and trying to articulate my reads better today. I've been busy at work and I usually like to write out big posts when I'm taking a mental break from my work (web dev).

[Sephiroth]

Can we just replace COA?

[Sephiroth]

what reasons do you feel less good than before?

I think his string of posts was scummy.

[Sephiroth]

I already said in thread that I'll be rereading and articulating my reads in depth later. Asking me questions right now isn't going to change that time to any sooner.

[Sephiroth]

FWIW screen is my hardest townread, and a couple other things he's done have firmed it up for me.

I'm also not sure why you expect me to explain my reads but haven't made any attempt to do so for your strong town read even though you clearly are claiming to have tangible reasons to town read him.

[Sephiroth]

It is that hard because it takes time to write it up and I'm busy at work. I want to write up all my reads at one time. Its really weird how everyone votes me when I don't do what they want me to lmao

[Sephiroth]

Its also really funny that you think I'm scum given what my scum game looks like. You've clearly made no attempt to meta (since you already know I'm town) and want to push something easy instead of hunting.

[Sephiroth]

I have no idea what your scum game looks like

And its telling that you make no effort to find out despite Skitter posting it several times.

Like, my whole thing is that I suck as town and am really good as mafia. When I'm scum I am VERY GOOD at finding things to scum read people for and to attack them for. I just don't see how anyone could see me not come up with well articulated reads and scum read me for it.

[Sephiroth]

I try reaching out to you about a few reads and you just throw shit in my face.

If you're town, rethink your approach.

I try posting that I'm at work and I will post all my reads when I have time to actually articulate them, and you demand to know my reads on a specific player immediately. I wouldn't say I'm throwing shit in your face, I'm saying theres no point in asking me when I said I'll post it tonight. You're literally just trying to look busy.

You need to rethink YOUR approach.

[Sephiroth]

I didn't tell you how you play town? I just said its scummy not to actually try to access the readily available meta and just blindly say NO YOURE SCUM HERE. Its pertty bad town play if thats your norm =/

[Sephiroth]

gfy

There’s absolutely no need for shit like this. Just makes the game toxic.

[Sephiroth]

I didn't tell you how you play town? I just said its scummy not to actually try to access the readily available meta and just blindly say NO YOURE SCUM HERE. Its pertty bad town play if thats your norm =/

I'm actually quite fucking good as town.

You wouldn't know though because you've played like, what, 2 games here?

I'm an alt smart guy.

[Sephiroth]

But nice attempt to undermine my credibility by questioning my mafia experience. Thats a pretty protown move right there.

[Sephiroth]

Lol. I'm glad the morality police have deemed it is now time for toxicity. You're a joke man, and you're getting overly frustrated over nothing right now.

[Sephiroth]

Also as I said WAYYYY back on like page 4, anything personal between us doesn't need to happen in thread. I don't have any issue with you as a person, and I think you should know that I don't always play like this but i've been repeatedly ganged up on and ridiculed by the whole game for pretty much nothing, so I haven't really been playing nice, yadig?

[Sephiroth]

I'm also not frustrated I just think its funny that you saw me post I'll be catching up and articulating reads and you somehow think its useful or productive to ask me about another read.

[Sephiroth]

Also as I said WAYYYY back on like page 4, anything personal between us doesn't need to happen in thread. I don't have any issue with you as a person, and I think you should know that I don't always play like this but i've been repeatedly ganged up on and ridiculed by the whole game for pretty much nothing, so I haven't really been playing nice, yadig?

cool, well I apologize.

Accepted. I apologize as well. Let's be friends.

Though I'm gonna be honest, both of your town pings on srceen seem to me like very generic stock townyish things to say, which are very easy to fake. Doesn't do much to convince me hes town but I can see where you're coming from.

[Sephiroth]

Coherent towns do better than divisive ones. I was hoping my reaching out would be a sign of trying to work with you. I know now that trying to work with you means doing things on your own time schedule.

I just mean, there are plenty of people to ask about their reads and it seemed odd to me that you would specifically ask me about a read when I had literally just posted I would be writing up all my thoughts later in the day. To me, that seems like something scum would do to appear like their hunting and contributing when they're really not.

For what its worth, my read list was an attempt to bring the town to better cohesion. I'm trying to establish people I would lynch and people I would not lynch and I kind of think its a good idea to do that unless a clear lynch apparates spontaneously.

[Sephiroth]

I still am unconvinced on Lalendra based on the last game I played with her. She doesn't always operate rationally. Her main argument in our last game together made no sense, then she contradicted herself about it the next day. She also had me as the highest scum read at the end of the day, then neglected to include me in her read list the next day. It seems to be pretty consistent with her here, just disengaged town.

[Sephiroth]

No but knowing she does it as town makes it hard for me to consider it AI for her.

[Sephiroth]

I'm not saying she can't do them as scum, I'm saying I view them as not indicative of her alignment. She does this as town and therefore I don't know if this is irrational scum lalendra or irrational town lalendra. But this is exactly how I was able to mislynch her in 1963 (v close to the way you're attacking her now) and I'm wary because it feels similar.

I'm not saying its a town tell. Its NAI. I'm not sure why you think I'm saying shes town for it.

[Sephiroth]

Theres a difference between saying I don't think something is AI and saying I think something is a town tell...

[Sephiroth]

Though to be fair that was my initial reaction way back earlier, but I haven't had her as town in a long time.

[Sephiroth]

Yeah I get what you're saying but also I don't? I'm writing them off as not scumtells because I know for a fact she does them as town. She could be doing them as scum, thats possible. But you seem to think these are like really strong scum tells. I disagree. I have literally seen her do this exact type of thing as town.

Okay for real I need to stop posting now and be productive at work. See ya later tonight friendos.

[Sephiroth]

I lied when I said I wasn't going to vote screen ever this game

VOTE: screen

Lynch all liars

VOTE: frog

but seriously

VOTE: screen

I'm confused. Wasn't he just your number one town read? Are you joking or do you care to explain?

[Sephiroth]

I get an email whenever someone posts and keep the tab open on my laptop. Easy when you have three screens at work.

I don't think the last couple posts from screen are a significant departure from how hes been interacting with me all game.

[Sephiroth]

You should know that although me and froggy had some spats we're cool now and we're gonna be super awesome friends even though I kind of think hes scum

[Sephiroth]

Exactly what scum would say OoOoOoOoO

caught you!

[Sephiroth]

WHY IS THIS RANDOMLY QUOTING THINGS I'M NOT EVEN QUOTING

You should actually report this in site ideas after the game's over, thats super annoying.

[Sephiroth]

unvote, vote: srceenplay

Lets take him to wagon town and see how that goes.

[Sephiroth]

Its much more fun to play when you stop caring about what you're posting. I'm having a good time.

[Sephiroth]

I'm rethinking my town read on FL. More on this later.

[Sephiroth]

Its really interesting that you've created this narrative in your head. Unfortunately thats not my scum game nor even my town game. I'm kind of an abrasive figure if you hadnt noticed.

[Sephiroth]

I'm just following the wagon of the day, if that wasn't clear yet.

[Sephiroth]

These srceen votes.

[Sephiroth]

I've been feeling icky for the last couple pages and noted as such in response to skitter.

[Sephiroth]

Yeah, thats a good point. That whole line doesnt work together.

[Sephiroth]

Your narrative blows but I'm happy to lynch stitch.

[Sephiroth]

Sorry, not the whole post. just the people pleaser bit

[Sephiroth]

Don’t think this is far-fetched at all considering how the current site meta arguably encourages scum to attempt to get away with doing blatantly scummy things.

I like you already.

I'm about a quarter of the way done sorting things for those keeping track at home.

[Sephiroth]

The entirety of his reads list was put in a way where the right people would be happy with it, and the wrong people didn’t matter. I believe I said this in my color wheel.

I would LOVE you to explain this because this absolutely reeks of bullshit. You have never once backed this up by explaining who is who, or how I was making people happy, or who the right people were. Explain yourself or stop pushing this shitty narrative.

[Sephiroth]

And no, you didn't say this in your color wheel because its not something you feel genuinely and therefore forgot to include it

[Sephiroth]

So what you're saying is you have literally nothing to back up this narrative, you're just kind of throwing it out there for fun. Noted.

[Sephiroth]

There was no reason for you to town read me there, or screen for that matter.

100% false.

[Sephiroth]

Wow this whole exchange for FL is real bad. How do you literally have no clue who the right people and wrong people are when its the entire basis of thinking I'm a people pleaser?

unvote, vote: FL

[Sephiroth]

And I'm sorry, I don't think you're too good at being scum to fuck up.

[Sephiroth]

The fact that you state my list was designed not to be scum read is such bullshit, literally no one agreed with those reads and many players thought it was scummy.

[Sephiroth]

hey frog how do you feel about voting flavor?

[Sephiroth]

Dang, thats dark. That doesn't inspire me with confidence reading him

[Sephiroth]

So that vote count is very wrong...

[Sephiroth]

me and skitters are voting FL

[Sephiroth]

We still love you though!

[Sephiroth]

She said that she didnt like it and felt manipulated, I'm not sure how apprehensive that is.

[Sephiroth]

You still have me voting Stitch though, should only be voting FL.

[Sephiroth]

Eh. I guess.

[Sephiroth]

You seem to be really nitpicky this game. Focused on very small details that in the grand scheme of thing don't seem particularly relevant. Are you always this way?

[Sephiroth]

I'm too lazy to edit this down so y'all are getting some word vomit. I've spoiler'd it so its not a huge eyesore (thanks to skitter for inspiring me). I will acknowledge that some of my reads changed drastically but that will happen when you switch from reads on vibe to actually reading the thread over again.

Spoiler:

Flavor Leaf:

My town read was formulated based on the immediate aftermath of placing the -1 and acknowledging that my vote was fine, which gave me a sense of the purpose behind the -1 being a good one. I also felt a good vibe at the end of our exchange though I think the quick lynch > 100 page D1 is a weird thing to say. I also like that he acknowledges the self-meta on frogger as questionabl, even though he takes the opposite view on the claim at the end of the post. I found their flippant treatment of the game to actually be a town tell, but its evaporated as they've continued to harp on this narrative that makes no sense about me. And theres also the whole thing where they said that if they were scum they'd be running the game and are kind of sort of trying to run the game with that color wheel post. Theres also 565 was an overexplanation and a bit of a non answer to the question of the mulch read. I also think its bullshit in 750 when he says theres no reason for me to ask the question about people pleasing. The whole reason to ask was that I didn't think I had a good answer as it pertains to mafia. Wouldn't it make sense if I was a people pleaser that I would make up something for him?

Lalendra:

I don't really know if this is her scum game or her town game, but I do know that this behavior is exhibited in her town game and therefore don't think her posting or reads are particularly damning. Like Skitters I would probably vote her at deadline but I think we can do better.

COA/UZI:

Not much to say about this slot at the moment. I'll wait for Uzi to get fully established in this game. I didn't feel particularly strongly about COA to begin with.

Skitter:

I don't like 100 from skitter because of the similarity of my opening in this game to my opening in 1963. I feel like skitter knows that I don't think its a strong scum tell and that I just thought it was good for my first non random vote. I get this kind of feeling of putting on how they're handling me, rather than it feeling natural, which continues into 117. It also feels pretty non-committal...at no point does Skitter say whetherh she things that my posting is scummy or not. This all makes me feel uneasy about skitter but their more recent posts read more like her town play. I also think its valid to point out that she is playing a lot more reactively than proactively (especially wrt her recent posts). I'm pretty wary of her but I don't feel strongly enough to consider her a good lynch today. Also think the exchange with FL makes sense from her town perspective given everything I know about her.

BigYoshiFan:

I don't have too much to say about yoshi other than feeling like it was weird that they jumped on my 1v1 with mulch. I don't see why a town player feels the need to inject themselves there rather than let that play out. Otherwise they seem pretty townie.

Fro99er:

As I've already stated I don't like that he asks for a claim for basically no reason. Maybe this is his meta but I also don't really completely trust when someone self-metas. So yeah I dunno. I don't see how a protown player wants a player that is almost definitely not being lynched to claim. Ideally only the person who is lynched should have to claim D1. Nothing protown about making that a larger number. I also don't like the fact that he questioned me on my screenplay read (pretty aggressively) after I had just posted not once, but twice about how I was planning to articulate all my reads later in the day. It seems unnecessarily aggressive and just unusual the way he pushes me here to give him a read immediately. Its like he just wants me to post and give him something to pounce on immediately. Theres also the fact that he claims srceen is his hardest TR in 801 but then when pressed for reasons he provides very stock town posts and says "its good enough for now" in 808 and 846. That feels a hell of a lot different than 'my hardest townread'. Just rubs me the wrong way how quickly he backs away from him being the most town player in the game.Without getting into the weeds again, I think telling me gfy after calling me toxic (for saying I didn't think someone was good at scumhunting) is fairly hypocritical and I don't know how I feel about it. Finally I don't like the way they're pushing lalendra and acknowledging the meta argument from me and skit without making an effort to actually look into it themselves. THem pushing lalendra feels hella similar to me pushing her mislynch in 1963.

Stitch:

Stitch really forces the attack on me which is what I thought was scummy. Saying that I was flailing in 104 is a misrep, and I consider asking for clarification to be a completely reasonable response. But 123 is the real killer for me. After I ask him this question he basically says that I'm scum for only defending myself. Really? Did you expect me to just not comment on the fact you said I was flailing? I can't see this being a real thing that a townie thinks 'hmm hes only defending myself, I'll say hes flailing and if he defends himself then hes scum!". Its just setting himself up to have an excuse to put me at -2. The real kicker is the last bit of the post when he claims he tried to bring attention to the -1 vote as a way to get me to do something other than defending myself. The irony here is that the whole reason I'm defending myself is FOR voting FL for his -1. For someone who claims to have been paying close attention to what I'm posting, he seems to know very little about what I've been focusing on. In 330/331 they rejoin the thread by apparently not understanding my very clear point that they were trying to push me to something I was already attacking. I really don't buy that Stitch just didn't understand my point. Then he proceeds to pretty much ignore ten pages of game and find one thing from COA to tunnel on. Then I think posts 488 and 634 about avoiding the thread are like really bad and active lurky. Thats kind of been their MO all game, pop in and vote someone for some random thing and then disappear for 300 posts without really engaging with the meat of whats happening in the game. Recently I've been less concerned with their posts but I don't think they've done anything to reverse my feelings from the beginning of the day either.

Srceenplay:

I mostly had no problem with screens posting early but I don't like the stretch immediately after I posted my reads list. To me, 711 doesn't really feel genuine. I don't have any meta for transcendence so I don't see why calling her scum for her play and then asking her to give me reads is possibly 'fake and shallow'. What specifically makes it fake and shallow and not attempting to get transcend to provide more information? And as much as you thought they wouldnt show, they did and posted what I asked for. So this is just really weird. The subsequent posts get worse, as yoshi provides very legitimate explanations for how my reads were (ones that were clearly evident if you read the thread) and he just is basically like nah thats not genuine. WHY. Asking for a claim early D1 is extremely anti-town, and I don't understand how its throwing shade to point out that scum benefits from more roles in the open N1 and town does not. This line of reasoning just screams to me that he wasn't expecting yoshi to rebut his points and hes stubbornly sticking to his guns because he doesnt have a graceful backtrack here. Like I totally get it if you dont think the claim request was scummy but to think it isn't genuine for another player to think its scummy is nonsensical. p-edit: I think screens explanation of their style helps me see their posting from a potentially town light, even if I think they're completely off base in their understanding of my feelings about prematurely asking for claims.

Clusk/Mulch/Wrangler:

What to say about Mulch here? I don't think their blowup or their entrance to the game feel at all similar to 1963 (where he was town) but he was also playing as an alt. I don't like that he lied about his meta as he did though i'll acknowledge that being an alt in that position is awkward to navigate.

Transcendence:

I thought they were scum up until they posted that thing with the votecount where they went through all the people that was kinda cool. Not familiar with her meta so if anyone wants to explain what they think about how it relates to her meta it'd be appreciated. The miller claim is questionable but hey, I said I loved flavor when I was drunk so I'm willing to let that go.

Creature

: Feels town. Might have pocketed me. Mainly has reasonable take on me and people voting me. Maybe scum WKing. Someone explain whats so absurd about townreading him? Not gonna vote them today I don't think unless someone presents a compelling reason to.

UCV:

I don't like how he pops in twice to not engage with the game at all. after reading a few of his games briefly I don't feel particularly illuminated but it is troublesome that he still hasnt really posted anything game related of note. Maybe theyre very busy?

Updated:

Town pile

: YoshiFan Creature (in that order)

Town lean pile

: Uzi Skitter Screenplay (not in order)

Scum lean pile

: Mulch UCV Lalendra Transcend (not in order)

Scum pile:

FlavorLeaf Fro99er Stitch (in that order)

[Sephiroth]

The closer your back gets to the wall the less rational you become.

[Sephiroth]

I can relate.

[Sephiroth]

But you're still scum.

[Sephiroth]

Can you articulate more specifically the difference between bsing your way out of it and flailing? I consider your attempt to backup your read on me as a people pleaser as much closer to bullshit than flailing if I'm being completely honest.

[Sephiroth]

Like you still haven't backed it up. That whole crusade was entirely bullshit. Seems like your scum game to me.

[Sephiroth]

You don't think your color wheel post seems like carefully constructed bullshit? Huh.

p-edit: I was responding to your own description of your scum game as being bullshit. This seems like bullshit. So it seems like your scum game. Or was that just bullshit too?

[Sephiroth]

Don't tell me what your scum game is and then be upset when I say you're playing that way this game lol

[Sephiroth]

I said your narrative fell apart when closely examined, and I also said I think you, like all people, are capable of fucking up as scum. Theres nothing contradictory in my read on you.

[Sephiroth]

I kind of suspected that srceen was the neighbor given how hes been more laser focused on me than other players and you said I wasn't getting enough attention.

[Sephiroth]

you said they said I wasnt getting enough attention***

[Sephiroth]

Man this game is all over the fucking place.

[Sephiroth]

I also feel like Sephiroth new readlist is eh.

Do tell, I'm pretty curious.

[Sephiroth]

stitch has been my most consistent scum read since the beginning of the game, I'm certainly not defending them and I'm certainly not opposed to lynching them. They remind me of my scum game.

[Sephiroth]

Saying you don't know where they're coming from is different than saying they can only come from a scum mindset, which is what you said.

[Sephiroth]

Yes. You have made us all aware that you would bus your buddy for town cred.

Oh man, you just learned about bussing? You must be really bad at this game.

[Sephiroth]

I wasn't on stitch, that was incorrect. I'm on FL

[Sephiroth]

I’m not sure what this is responding to. You are coming from a scum mindset.

I'm saying that pointing that skitter said my reads were weird is a strawman. No one accused you of being the first to question my reads. Skitter got a town read from not understanding my reads whereas you came to the conclusion that I could only have them as scum which is the point of emphasis here. It literally doesnt matter who said the reads were bad.

[Sephiroth]

This stitch wagon suddenly being reinvigorated out of nowhere feels really questionable. Can we not quicklynch? I'm down to lynch but a claim would be preferable if we're definitely going that route.

[Sephiroth]

I'm not sure what's funny =/

[Sephiroth]

So as his scum partner I would go out of my way to block his lynch here? And not just let it happen?

Call me old fashioned but you get a claim before a lynch.

[Sephiroth]

I'll be happy to hammer after a claim.