Open 705: Polygamist - Game Over


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Post Post #53 (isolation #0) » Mon Jan 01, 2018 11:50 am

Post by cytheflyguy »

In post 46, Mathdino wrote: So since we seem to be in agreement that Tora/sheep are town, and given that sheep voted completely arbitrarily (on someone who hasn't even posted yet), I unironically think cy should be our lynch today. Since there's no nighttime I would even be good with a speedlynch here (long days are anti-town).

Cuz fuck playing for fun, I play to win.
LOL. Every game I'm in,
someone
wants me to die day 1, and several times they almost get their wish, but as of yet, I've never died D1. Let's not start now ;)

PS my lover is Lalendra.
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Post Post #54 (isolation #1) » Mon Jan 01, 2018 11:57 am

Post by cytheflyguy »

Also I'm against the dice strategy. What's the point in playing mafia if there's no challenge? If it's all up to chance why are we talking at all? It really takes the heart away from the game. I won't replace out, but I don't think it's the path we should go down.
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Post Post #156 (isolation #2) » Tue Jan 02, 2018 6:11 pm

Post by cytheflyguy »

Okay but this is kinda stupid. I stopped reading around page 5. I may get back to it later. Idk. Seems interesting but not in the mood.

Look, there are 2 possibilities that will stem from this conversation. Either we will or we will not choose from rolling dice. If we do roll with dice, then Dino rolls a fucking die and we take our chances. There's another possibility that we won't. Then what? We'd have all these days lost over fucking math. I may have failed pre-calculus, but I understand this much: if we don't do the dice, then all of this is for nothing, and we start from square 1. So please, let's wrap this up. People have made up their minds so
In your next post, vote for whichever side you're on regarding this debate. This is a game of majority rules. The minority has to bend the will to the majority. Whoever wins will decide how this game will be played and we can move on.
Hot damn. I can't process all of these numbers. Honestly, I'd rather die than have to sit through this. If we just put this to a vote, we end this and can move on with the game.

Also, idgaf what he says. I find this very WIFOM. If I was smart in math like that, I'd do that regardless of role. There's nothing to lose from it imo. I don't scum read him for it because I feel any role could pull this off. If he's scum and is the one to roll, and he excludes himself, he only has to avoid 2 people to be lynched, and those are good odds. If he's town, then the odds apply better for town. Idk, I could be wrong on how this works. All I know is that this needs to end.

Please vote on this issue.

I
vote to scumread instead of putting it to chance.
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Post Post #158 (isolation #3) » Tue Jan 02, 2018 6:15 pm

Post by cytheflyguy »

In post 157, sheepsaysmeep wrote:yo im the one rolling
I'm sorry, but I don't care if Jack the Ripper himself is coming back from the dead and rolling. I just want to play mafia not Economics Wonderland
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Post Post #163 (isolation #4) » Tue Jan 02, 2018 7:12 pm

Post by cytheflyguy »

In post 161, Mathdino wrote:
I'd ask you for reads but I'm not actually interested. So I'm just gonna point out player-to-player that you're kinda being hypocritical by complaining more about the random lynch discussion when
A. I personally have moved on from the dream of a truly random lynch
B. You haven't given reads, while sheep and I have.
I'm not saying it's alignment indicative of you but I do think you should put your money where your mouth is :P
Regarding what you said, I can accept that because I can accept poe. I told you that I stoped reading at page 5. I wasn't joking. That's why I didn't see it as over. I honestly didn't read much after I saw a bunch of math signs. I'll come back with reads later, but my argument was less "pro reads" nor "anti math" but more "move on with the damn game". I do agree that reads are important, but that's not the core of my argument. Also, if I'm not mistaken, you only placed townreads, which kinda takes away from the heart of what reads are as they have both town and scum reads. I'm not saying anything is bad about you as a player, but if we're not gonna do the dice thing, let's just move on. There's no point belaboring it.

In response to , I will remind you that what you quoted is directly related to the "let's move on" argument, which isn't for or against either side in it's core. I am against your argument, yes, but that's not what my argument that you quoted from was about. That being said, I do agree that scum can influence the majority, which is why I counterargue a point you made that we should let this happen and let people talk. Yes, there are alignments that we all have because each of us has a partner, but because scum has another set that they have to protect at all cost, if we can prod around and get a feel, we will know how pairs will react to other pairs. It's not fool proof, no, but if we can incorporate that with poe, we can see out of this limited pool who reacts to what pair and which pairs are most likely to work together. That and usual scum hunting. You do that better with more information given. You said so yourself that you're a good LyLo player because there's more information to go off of. Isn't this the same thing minus flips?

I could be wrong, but there are other options that don't rely on slightly better odds than a coin flip.

But side note as I step away from my in-game frustration, I would fucking love to be in your post game sig haha.
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Post Post #166 (isolation #5) » Thu Jan 04, 2018 2:57 am

Post by cytheflyguy »

In post 165, RedFlavor wrote:Let's go!
I want mathdino to roll the dice who agrees
At least this has brought life to this topic.

Hm, idk how to feel about the slots here. Despite what I said about MathDino, I actually have a slight townlean on him. I mean I
could
do WIFOM, but that just leads to circular logic I don't have enough of anything to conclude (and note, when I did say that something felt WIFOM, I was talking more about his strategy and not the player himself). The main reason I don't town read him fuller is because of how much he defended his proposal. Like I felt that was a bit extra and it raises a slight red flag but I won't think much of it.

Honestly, I'd like to hear why Sheep townreads me.

And...I'm not sure what to think of RedFlavor's last post. Like I think we established we're not doing that. I'm gonna chalk that up to NAI since it's only one posts but idk.

Dimond only exclusively posted in regards towards MathDino. Because I still feel argument is WIFOM, I'm null on his slot. Same with his partner. Honestly same with the rest of the game because I don't see much content from anyone's ISO.

Amrochora and BigFinn deadass haven't posted and are long past in need for a prod.
@Mod please prod them


We only are at page 7 after all these days, y'all. Let's generate content. :D
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Post Post #246 (isolation #6) » Fri Jan 05, 2018 6:52 pm

Post by cytheflyguy »

In post 177, Mathdino wrote:62. manrock: How does dicelynching actually help?
67. Mathdino: Cuz it's easy for scum to force 2 mislynches. sheep sheep.
71. sheep: Wtf u on abt
73. Mathdino: I pathologically break setups.
77. Mathdino: The longer the day goes on, the more time scum has to distance from each other and make associations impossible. Speedlynch whoever some random townie wants to lynch pls.
79. Sky: Why play if you're just gonna dice lynch? Also votes should be accountable.
80. Sky: This is basically a hydra game and we're looking for scummy hydra interactions. Also my lover is Diamond and we weren't sure whether to claim.
81. Lalendra: Math is probably scum, I don't like his aggression/vibes and he wouldn't random lynch as town.
86. Mathdino: Lol scum tryna discredit me. Scumhunting is super unlikely to work in this setup. Sky/Diamond could be scum but what the fuck do I know.
87. Diamond: I'm against random lynching on principle, and it's pathetic to say "Those who discredit my idea are scum".
88. Mathdino: Meh, not scumreading you, but not agreeing to a dicelynch means you're not for sure town to me. Not continuing this argument because scumhunting is bad.
89. sheep: Do you have any scumreads Math?
90. Mathdino: We're probably doomed because my ideas can't even handle 1 townteam defection, so we lose majority. Also scumreading Lal/cy, nullscum Sky/Diamond, townread Finn/Kop.
91. Diamond: Your idea isn't necessarily wrong, I just don't wanna play that way. Sheep people if you don't actually care about scumreads.
92. Mathdino: That's what I'm doing.
93. Sky: Town could just disagree with you because it's a bad idea. We should hold people accountable for their votes. And get better scumreads.
96. Mathdino: This isn't a regular game. Evidence shows scumhunting is bad.
97. Mathdino: I know town COULD disagree. Just saying that scum is FORCED to disagree because my idea hurts scum.
98. Sky: Please explain why VCA isn't worthwhile in this game. Also random lynching twice is likely to hit town both times.
101. Diamond: I'm sexually attracted to Sky. [jk, you still paying attention?]
102. Mathdino: Town has a horrible winrate, which indicates standard scumhunting is worse than random lynching. And here's a bunch of math to prove it. And it'd be idiotic for me as scum to suggest an idea that 7 times out of 10 makes scum lose.
103. Sky: Random lynching is likely to hit town on both D1 and D2. I'd take those odds as scum.
104/105. Red: *incorrect math that I can't really summarise because it's wrong enough that idk where he went wrong*. Also scum can just rig the dice.
106. Lalendra: You're statistically right, Math, but I still like scumhunting more. Would you vote your scumreads over what the dice say? Also what are you scumreading people for exactly?
107. Mathdino: *shows my work on the probability side*. Also dice roller can't be rigged.
108. Red: *correctly points out an error in Math's calculations*
109. Mathdino: You don't know what I'd do as town, Lalendra, and ongoing game isn't representative. Also if we had more days, scumhunting would be great, but we have 2, and we're more likely to hit town by scumhunting. Also I'm not scumreading people for disagreeing with me, I'm just not-townreading them.
110/111. Mathdino: *corrects the error in my calculations, but it doesn't change the result*. brb writing a python script for this game.
112. Red: Scum could just not actually roll the dice and say they did.
113. Mathdino: No the forum has a built in dice roller, they can't.
114. Lalendra: But Math is suggesting that whoever rolls the dice not include themselves on the random list. Scum then benefits. Math's approach benefits scum.
115. Mathdino: Yeah but I'm suggesting sheep/Tora roll the dice, not me.
122. sheep: The people who disagree with you could just be town who think your idea is bad. Thoughts?
123. Mathdino: They're honestly just likely to be scum by PoE. Your call on who we lynch.
128/133. Diamond: Let's lynch Mathdino today and then random tomorrow. Probability of hitting scum with Mathdino is the same as random lynch.
129. Red: Math's probably town because scum wouldn't suggest an idea that helps town.
134. Mathdino: The very fact that you can get a lynch on someone makes them more likely to be town, because scum helped you with the lynch. So whoever you lynch (especially if it's me) is likelier to be town than scum.
135. Mathdino: I'm guessing that the town winrate of a D1 scumhunting lynch then a D2 random lynch would be around 50%.
137. Diamond: I'll take those odds. Let's play the game. *says so abrasively*
138. Mathdino: Yeah I crunched it to exactly 50%. Also, rude. I've been giving reads bro.
139. Lalendra: Wait, but sheeping someone you townread isn't actually random, it's only random TO YOU.
140. Mathdino: Sheeping a townread is the closest to a random vote I can personally get. Random lynch won't actually happen.
141. Mathdino: I coded the setup, random lynch wins 60% of the time. If we PoE out a town lover pair, it's 70%.
142. Lalendra: Fair points, but the reason no one is sheeping is because there haven't been actual good concrete reasons for any reads yet.
146. Sky: Okay, random lynching is viable. But do you actually wanna do that? Cuz I don't. Did you talk to your lover about this? Diamond should be less abrasive.
147. Mathdino: No I didn't. And I get that no one wants to random lynch, so I'm doing the closest I can.
148. Sky: Doesn't make sense for Math to be scum if he's pushing this idea all by himself. Also why townread sheep/Tora?
149. Diamond: Sorry for being abrasive. I still don't wanna random lynch.
152. Mathdino: I didn't say sheep/Tora are high quality players, just that they're town because *tone* and *reasons*. I'm sheeping them because their vote is equivalent to a dice roll.
156. cy: This conversation is stupid, we need to end it. Let's take it to a vote. I vote not random lynching. Also Math could just be scum excluding himself from the random roll.
157. sheep: No I'm the one rolling
In post 158, cytheflyguy wrote:I'm sorry, but I don't care if Jack the Ripper himself is coming back from the dead and rolling. I just want to play mafia not Economics Wonderland
161. Mathdino: Let's not vote. My idea already lost. I'm just gonna sheep a guy and scumhunt when asked. Also sheep's reads are shit but that's kinda the point.
162. Mathdino: Also, this being a game of majority rules is exactly why scum wins this setup all the time. Too much scum in the town, sways the majority.
163. cy: I just wanna get on with the game. I agree scum influences the majority, and we can watch out for that as we scumhunt. That + PoE = win.
164. Mathdino: I understand, but a couple scum strategies nullify scumhunting. The history of this setup is evidence that scumhunting is bad. If you have a good scumhunting strategy that's never been tried before, I might agree with you.
165. Red: Oh shit let's have Math roll the dice [sidenote: I never suggested that I roll the dice lol]
166. cy: I'm townleaning Math, not sure on Red, not sure on anyone.

The rest you've probably read.
Totally NAI, but I fucking love you as a player.
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Post Post #247 (isolation #7) » Fri Jan 05, 2018 6:53 pm

Post by cytheflyguy »

In post 225, momo wrote:Hey guys....

will read tomorrow and catch scum

I think I've been playing better recently, I hope y'all see it to

Anyway
momo out

p.s. if any of you could nominate me for the title most mislynchable momo, it would mean a lot to me. Same with a scummy nomination.

(I am only sort of joking...going to watch netflix now)
Oh my god I saw you and got scared I posted in the wrong game. Holy shit my heart can't take that. I'm still getting over something still. Don't do this to me.
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Post Post #248 (isolation #8) » Fri Jan 05, 2018 6:57 pm

Post by cytheflyguy »

In post 203, Lalendra wrote:I literally just had a conversation about how I will always be scumread because of my posting/playing style. I hate it

p-edit: That's going in my sig lol
Omg same. We were meant to be <3
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Post Post #252 (isolation #9) » Fri Jan 05, 2018 7:04 pm

Post by cytheflyguy »

In post 245, Mathdino wrote:I don't want anyone to comment because I don't want my or Misa's townreads to be influenced by potential scum.

Sky loses massive points for doing the one thing I asked him not to do lol.

If you guys wanna keep have a conversation with each other, by all means do so. I just don't want you to butt into my conversation with Misa.

This game would be a lot more interesting with daytalk tbh.
I can and will respect this.

That being said I think I want to push the sheep counterwagon VOTE: Sheep mostly for wanting more content out of them.
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Post Post #253 (isolation #10) » Fri Jan 05, 2018 7:06 pm

Post by cytheflyguy »

In post 251, Sky_Paladin wrote:Dino, you can’t go “I dont know how to scum hunt in this setup let’s just roll a dice” and then hand out town reads. You have said repeatedly that you don’t know how to scum hunt but you will give out town reads based on literally nothing.

When I posted I “lost points” but when sheep posted you literally didn’t care.

I accept that you may not know wtf to do but attempting to railroad town into dice rolling and now attempting to railroad town into sheepingnsheep - this and the prior thing reeks of hypocriticalness.

I’m concerned enough that I’m reversing my town read of you and I encourage other players to read the game and take their own view.
So what is your strategy? I understand where you're coming from, but what is it that you want to do instead? I'm not asking this in a snarky ass way, but if you find problem with him, what is the best course of action that you think we should take instead.
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Post Post #558 (isolation #11) » Tue Jan 09, 2018 7:52 pm

Post by cytheflyguy »

God damn I am here. I Quick Quoted some things of interest and want to put my 2 cents in things.
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Post Post #559 (isolation #12) » Tue Jan 09, 2018 8:01 pm

Post by cytheflyguy »

In post 322, DiamondSentinel wrote:
In post 319, Mathdino wrote:I admittedly over-rely on slips. I consider your opening to be townslippy enough to consider you town.

So I'll revise.

I can't scumhunt in this game the way that Sky, Diamond, Lalendra, and cy want me to, because day associations are bullshit.

I do believe I can scumhunt through baiting scumslips and figuring out who's lying about their PTs though, because that doesn't rely on the "there are 2 hydrae who are scum together and will interact weirdly in the day thread" theory.

Problem is scumslips almost never actually happen and I didn't expect a situation as blatant as this.
1. Try to actually scumhunt. Don't rely on slips or whatever. Slips
never
actually happen. Not almost never.
Never
. Additionally, stop trying to think this through logically. Mafia is a social game. Social interactions, are by their very nature, illogical. Rather, rely on your gut to determine who is scum and who is not. Your subconscious is a lot better at discerning people's nature than your conscious brain. That's why I'm still wishy washy about my vote on you. I can't tell if you're just ick town, or truly scum.

2. Just because someone's playstyle doesn't strictly align with yours does not make them scum. I detest your playstyle, and how you insist on relying on logic alone, completely removing the social aspect from the game, and it seems that you feel similarly about my playstyle. That's fine. You can refuse to align yourself with my playstyle, and I am going to do the same anyways. Relying on private topics for inconsistencies or scumslips just
doesn't work
. So I refuse to take part in it.

3. I'm refusing to join in your PT-slip witch hunt out of principle. Nothing more.
This is actually bothersome. Mafia is not a game of principle anymore than it is of economics. It is a game of deception -- pure and simple. Also slips do happen?
In post 324, DiamondSentinel wrote:
In post 323, Mathdino wrote:Getting tired of this.

1. I've already given massive mountains of evidence that playing this setup socially is anti-town. Gutreads are, in most games, abysmal. The hilarious thing though is I'm gut-townreading Tora/sheep and you're also giving me shit for that.
"ick town" trying to push the objectively pro-town strategy
that you already agreed was pro-town
, and you still accuse me of playing badly. Jesus christ. If you have that little respect for me, meta my towngames and my scumgames to at least see I'm a legitimately good player and I mold my playstyle to my role (role, not alignment) and the setup. Maybe then we can stop this slapfight.

2. Oh screw you. I'm not doing anything to actively stop you from scumhunting. But you're actively hampering the way I play the game. You complain about no content to read. I'm trying to produce content to gut read.

3. ahahahahaha that feel when people's principles lose games
oh man i see this shit all the time
1. Son, you ain't seen nothin yet. I'm fairly accurate, and jokes on you, all my reads are gut. I'm just not charismatic enough to convince others because they insist on "proof" and other lies.

2. Oh, but you are. You've been filling the game with unusable content which is letting the scum hide. Which is why I've determined to lynch you today. Either you're scum hiding other scum (yay) or you're town letting the scum hide. Either way, you gotta go.

3. My principle has yet to lose me a game, tyvm
That being said, post 2 is very much in the right. However, math is NAI, so I cannot agree for a lynch on MathDino simply because of his posting. Yes, I do agree because of the fact we did not go through with it, it did hinder progress, any alignment could have come up with that argument. It's because of that, that I kinda want to push you for now.

VOTE: Dimond
In post 361, Lalendra wrote:Honestly I've kind of given up, if I'm going to get lynched D1 because of arbitrary random voting and math, then what's the point in defending? Nothing I say matters if we're just playing the lottery.
Don't give up, dear lover! There's still hope in our survival.
In post 405, Mathdino wrote:
In post 403, Sky_Paladin wrote:2 and 3 are the main reasons I think Cy is probably town. I feel if we had scum at L-2 there would be a lot more posts from outraged players, eh?
Sorry to butt in and ruin all the fun, but in line with my "scumhunting is scummy and completely ineffective" beliefs:

Correct play for scum with cy/Lalendra is to NOT post a ton of outrage to make it look like there's no one defending them, in the hopes that town will whip up a lynch on someone else.
Dude, this is sooooo WIFOM and you know it.
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Post Post #560 (isolation #13) » Tue Jan 09, 2018 8:03 pm

Post by cytheflyguy »

Also I find it hella ironic that a pair of lover's URL is both math based, and unlike math, which is supposed to be the most universal truth ever, they can't agree on anything.
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Post Post #563 (isolation #14) » Tue Jan 09, 2018 8:06 pm

Post by cytheflyguy »

In post 556, Mathdino wrote:Think about this. We can potentially get the votes of sheep/Tora and Red/Hyung. Kop/momo is possible. Clearly cy/Lalendra and Sky/Diamond are very opposed to lynching the other pair. Is that a scumtell? I don't know. By Sky's logic, it is, but I have no idea, and I lowkey believe that one of the pairs is just trying to make it look like they're all scum together.
I actually misread this as I was skimming over shit, lmao.
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Post Post #564 (isolation #15) » Tue Jan 09, 2018 8:06 pm

Post by cytheflyguy »

In post 561, MathBlade wrote:Erm...

I can’t understand cy’s post because I don’t know if cy means me, Dino, or actual math.

Can someone help translate?
Actual math. And you can ask me directly, you know.
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Post Post #566 (isolation #16) » Tue Jan 09, 2018 8:07 pm

Post by cytheflyguy »

In post 562, MathBlade wrote:
In post 560, cytheflyguy wrote:Also I find it hella ironic that a pair of lover's URL is both math based, and unlike math, which is supposed to be the most universal truth ever, they can't agree on anything.
Dino is applied math.

I am pure math.

The truth is there somewhere.

But I still think you’re scum even though that is hilarious.
Everyone does but I never die D1. Another added layer of irony.
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Post Post #865 (isolation #17) » Sat Jan 13, 2018 3:22 am

Post by cytheflyguy »

In post 585, Sky_Paladin wrote:Open wolfing basically exactly what Dino has done all game.

I'm probably not going to try to convince Dino and Blade that they are scum with Sheep since they're not inclined to believe me but I'm inspired to do some work to see if I can get the many afk and neutral players out there to vote. I was pretty salty that Blade/Sheep/Dino all decided that I'm scum but then I figured well I've been calling them scum all game, so that's fair.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Dino

Aside from my many repeated statements that are trivially accessible in my iso the fact that Cy/Red both showed up to immediately vote for my slot when there was a better wagon around (sheep) should be enough of a concern that players go uh oh.

So to Lalendra/Cy/Momo/et al, what do you think about that?

More importantly, are you happy to go into LYLO tomorrow with Dino, who's stated strat is to arbitrarily pick a player (it could be you) and vote regardless of interactions, vote count analysis etc?

In other words why the fudge are players willing to sheep a slot that has no scum hunting except for badly put together fake reaction tests. Both Dino and Blade ignored my explanations for what was in my private topic which suggests to me that they were not looking for an explanation, they were looking for a target.

I am unwilling to go into LYLO while that slot is still active and if you are interested in playing the game of mafia, you should be putting your votes there.

If you disagree, please provide reasons.
At this point I'd rather play with Dino in a potential LyLo because math is NAI. I'm scum reading you for the same reason I stated, and for that reason my vote will stand. Where your logic kinda fails is that it was more a fight of personal pride then pushing town into submission, and if you argue that that's what is plan was the entire time, then we get into WIFOM territory, which I'd rather not get into.
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Post Post #866 (isolation #18) » Sat Jan 13, 2018 3:25 am

Post by cytheflyguy »

In post 588, MathBlade wrote:
In post 584, Lalendra wrote:
In post 535, Sky_Paladin wrote:The other reason is mainly Dino's attitude and playstyle seems hellbent on his way or the highway and that looks a lot like open wolfing to me.
I'm confused about all these references to wolfing, isn't wolf a 3rd party that only exists in multiball?
Wolf is another word for scum.
But I suspect you were coached to ask.
Honestly, I never knew the proper definition. I suspected as much but I never asked. I don't understand how that's a coached question that can benefit anyone.
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Post Post #867 (isolation #19) » Sat Jan 13, 2018 3:29 am

Post by cytheflyguy »

In post 609, Mathdino wrote:
In post 608, sheepsaysmeep wrote:one does not simply get pre-ins for an open
idk how the hell you did it
off topic so i'm going to say something game relevant

drunkposting is a major major towntell so tora is probably still town

also if these guys flip town what's your theory?



anyway off topic, yeah the moment i /in'd to mod i got 1 pre-in. got another from sitechat and got another PM asking about it over the past day

i also have 1 person in the replacement queue

the flavour/style is gonna be cool but idk how they knew that :P
Is this based off experience? I've played a game before (finished now), where there was a scum who was drunk posting.
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Post Post #868 (isolation #20) » Sat Jan 13, 2018 3:39 am

Post by cytheflyguy »

In post 651, Sky_Paladin wrote:
"who should we lynch tomorrow"
phone post

knowing my alignment when Diamond/Sky flips I would say the votes that are the most suspicious on my wagon are Cy/Lalendra followed by Red/whoever red is team with. Cy most suspicious because natural progression should have been a vote on sheep to stay alive but the vote on dia suggests he knew he wasn't in any danger aka scum were already on the cy wagon and he was confident that he would get ~2 votes shifted wherever. Lalendra ambivalent about voting also concerning.

Second place is Sheep/Tora.

Third place is afk slot - possibly scum is super unmotivated this game due to giant walls and killing a blank slot probably just as good or better than random lynch or scumhunting

my preference is hyung because despite promising to catch up they never did. and also iric they are buddies with red who as mentioned above has troubling votes

cut by hyhung lol
Again, I'm not trying to vote for what's easy, I'm trying to vote for what's scum.
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Post Post #870 (isolation #21) » Sat Jan 13, 2018 4:12 am

Post by cytheflyguy »

In post 869, Sky_Paladin wrote:
Again, I'm not trying to vote for what's easy, I'm trying to vote for what's scum.
Dino/Sheep think that you are scum buddies with my slot. From your perspective, which slot would Diamond/Sky be scum buddies with?
For the record, I said that before reading the rest of the game.

For your question: I can rule out the Math's, sheep, or myself. Seeing their current reaction, I'd have to rule out Hyung as well.

This would leave Momo's hydra. Which would make sense because of how he caused commotion as you were on the chopping block. However, I can't say anything either way because there's so little content.
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Post Post #1027 (isolation #22) » Mon Jan 15, 2018 7:04 pm

Post by cytheflyguy »

In post 877, Sky_Paladin wrote:Dino asked for me to provide meta reason for Sheep/Tora being scum, here's the one on Sheep.

Please take a look at this and let me know your thoughts. I'll do Tora next.

TL/DR


I think Sheep's play this game has a lot more in common with their scum-meta than their town meta.
I have only seen one real town game and two real scum game from Sheep, and this setup seems to encourage idleness.

Summary:
Key differences between town!sheep and scum!sheep:
Town sheep directly engages with players and asks questions often. Feels like they're trying to solve the game.
Scum sheep talks a lot 'about' the game or 'about' players; mainly empty content posts that have the illusion of being involved.

The current game we're playing feels different from the other games played (doesn't feel intuitively like scum!sheep, doesn't feel intuitively like town!sheep) which is interesting; there's only been a month or so since they're last game and I wouldn't expect this big a change. Possible that their RL situation has changed and they're able to focus more.

Aggression this game is consistent with overall play and is non AI.

Main matches with scum game:
Hands out strong townreads early game - Dino, Cy (reversed Cy read later). Mutual townclear is not alignment indicative, it just seems that sheep hands out early townreads more frequently as scum.
A lot more high level meta posts/feeling of talking about the game/players instead of directly engaging with players.
Examples:
43
57
61
69
153
150
170
178
184
211
etc etc almost every post is empty content/filling up the thread with actual nothing until near the 700's when a vote for Diamond appears once a wagon has begun there.
Last post is commenting that Hyule posted but no actual feedback on anything Hyule has said.

Key difference between scum!Sheep and this game:
Scum sheep seems to care a lot more about the game and puts in more effort, especially when they or their buddies are under threat.

Details about examined games behind the spoiler.

Spoiler:
Games that the player started in (games they replaced into don’t count, games they replaced out of do).
Requirements for a deepdive:
Games that had at least 100 posts of content.
Games that had at least 10 posts from the player in question.

Ideally I look for 3x scum games and 3x town games in order to feel like there are enough data points to make a meaningful decision.

Unfortunately Sheep does not have a lot of games in the above category.

1x town games
Town game 2 – Newbie 1837

Overall summary:
Frequently posts lots of small posts that are relevant to the game the longer the game goes on.
Most posts are directly engaging other players (questioning reads typically).
Posts read lists.

Frequent votes changes at the start of the game
Lots of shit posts
Read lists
Semi-frequent posts that question other players
Occasional strong statements eg 'never having strong reads is usually cautious scum'
Frequent posts that engage and discuss with players.
Took about 5 days RL to become meshed with the game.
Frequent citation of being busy in RL.
also i know from past experience to never trust my gut
simply put, i should never trust my gut
Highly aggressive at the start of the game; see 53 to 74.
Almost every post is directly engaging or in response to other players. Highly indicative of a player who is trying to figure stuff out/figure out other players alignment. Even before post 100 there is a strong feeling that Sheep is involved/impacting this game.
Posts like 166, 192, 204 straight up asking players to explain their reads/vote/position.
Look at this gorgeous reads list.
Complains about wall
States town goal "disagree with this
town goal is to find scum"

Argues against somebody elses townread
Generally a lot of posts engaging with/discussing/asking other players to do things. See 727.
Response to pressure is lots of small one-liners, finally joined in a single post, eg this one

2x scum games

Scum game 1 – Pick your poison
Early RVS votes, directly engages player after prod dodge in 152
179 appeal to town; small number of empty content posts talking about game/players not related to town/scum.
Kind of hard to explain - the feeling is that sheep is talking to players at meta, gives the appearance of being engaged but is not really.
examples
267, 276
Wall post not especially interesting except we never see these really from Sheep.

Game over really quickly; general feeling is that scum!sheep walks lightly and rarely interacts but gives the impression of acting. Strong feeling difference from town game 1.

Scum game 2 – Mandela Effect

Frequent vote changes early on.
Hands out strong townreads very early on some players
Also aggressive early on
Backing up other players, obv buddying to town player x2
Feeling of offense by being scumread asks for explanation
Throws out town reads on town players but no scum reads.
Fairly strong post push on town.
Reads list has scumbuddy in null slot.
Posts around 200 onwards fairly aggressive and pushing.
posts like this show evidence of scum hunting, interesting that it comes from scum!sheep.
Strongly active near phase end trying to manage the (mis)lynch.
Reads list


Generally a lot of town-looking posts. Sheep tried hard and cared a lot more in this game than in the other games I have read. Generally aggressive at the start, as the game went on became more passive and was mainly content to let the town do whatever it wanted, until it was near hammer when they appeared to be more active.
Handed out town reads very early on (mirrored with our game) on non-buddies, placed buddies as null read.[/spoiler]

Given time I can do this for all the players in the game but I prefer not to as it is a significant time investment and feels like cheating.

***

As I couldn't really get enough data points to fill in what feels like a concrete argument for sheep is scum, I can really only conclude that this game seems to have more in common with Sheep's scum game than their town game.

Dino, now that I have gone and done this, what are your thoughts? Do you think there is anything here?

@Diamond
we need to decide what we're going to do about this push on Cy and if we are both going to vote for it (or not).
I am not overly impressed with Cy/Lalendra. The fact that their voting seems to be tied at the hip with Red/Hyule concerns me. It's also very strange that...well, at the moment you could see it is a competing wagons between Dino and Cy. Presumably Cy/Lalendra would have a personal investment in wanting to persuade players who might be wanting to vote Dino (e.g you and I given we had been there for most of the day) to revote Dino because otherwise they'd be dead.
However this has not really eventuated.

So I guess I'll semi-address this to Cy/Lalendra: Are you guys voting Dino because you believe scum!Dino, or is it because you're trying to keep your head above water?

@Momo/Kop


I see you are still voting RedFlavor but I haven't really got any other meaningful interactions out of you to see what you think/feel. Can you please comment on some of the latest things e.g vote changes, and perhaps your thoughts on the whole Dino/Sky drama we had earlier?
I'm not voting Dino tho.
In post 1004, MathBlade wrote:
In post 1001, Lalendra wrote:
In post 998, MathBlade wrote:Cy is scum because of the lack of hammer.
I still think that you're discounting the possibility of "town won't hammer because if they do Dino will deathtunnel them" when it comes to the lack of hammer. We can't afford deathtunnels on D2 because two mislynches means scum win.
So because Dino is a loud player we shouldn’t lynch the most likely player to be scum? Wtf?
I agree with you that I don't think Lalendra is correct, I don't think you read her work correctly.
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