Open 699 - Pick your Poison - Town Win


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Post Post #386 (isolation #0) » Mon Nov 06, 2017 3:56 am

Post by boring »

I'm going to need a few of you to unvote for a little bit.
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Post Post #387 (isolation #1) » Mon Nov 06, 2017 4:13 am

Post by boring »

Holy fuck... I'm tempted to let you guys lynch me just so Transcend can apologize to Elmo before she leaves the site for good. This is supposed to be a game, not a Mean Girls reboot.

Frankly, I don't know how the town on my wagon would actually believe that the lowest hanging fruit Day 1 is just coincidentally scum. It's baffling.

If 6 days out is too close to deadline for y'all, I think Fitz and Mutant are my best bets right now for town, and I'm most suspicious of Luca and Deas. I'm waiting to judge Transcend because right now, I'm thinking his alignment is "poopy face".

I'll be back in about 12 hours.
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Post Post #395 (isolation #2) » Mon Nov 06, 2017 11:26 am

Post by boring »

See highlights for the Tl;dr!
Read further at your leisure..

I got a break at work!

I will admit first that I'm feeling awfully OMGUSy right now. There's no reason to have a player run up this high this early with a serious wagon based on literally nothing. You don't get this many "town" on a wagon based on just hunches. Second, I'm not open to "defending" my slot, unless something worth my time is brought up against it.

Fitz and Fish
are earning good
town
points from me because either of them, as scum, can easily just go with the mood of the game, pretend to be convinced I'm scum, and get a free lynch. If I was lynched right now, there's relatively little content outside my lynch that would help town interpret the NK, that it gives scum a huge leg-up going into tomorrow.

I think
mutant is town
because he's playing so poorly. I don't mean that to be unkind. He's cumbersome in a way that scum rarely are. As has already been pointed out by two players now, he's trying to policy me, and he doesn't even seem to realize it. He's looking to lynch and not scum hunt. I know that's traditionally a big scum tell, as was that big read list on something like page two. It's so crazy scummy, and he's not even trying to backtrack. I'm not thrilled that he's town, but he's town. Also,
@mutant
, this isn't my first time subbing into L-1. I think this is like the 4th time. I've never been lynched as town, so if nothing else, I'll get a new experience. Just remember to come back to this post later.

I don't like the way
Luca
is playing. I think he's just going along to get a lynch. I know he's first on the wagon on the VC, but he definitely wasn't the first to start circling Elmo, and that's exactly what this has been. Circling. To be more specific, he's playing the way I play when I'm scum. I try to buddy the most aggressive "town" player so they leave me alone, and then I Knit-pick. One can find some little detail wrong with just about anyone. He leaves questions and directions just hanging out there, then he collects on the "so-and-so didn't answer me" or "so-and-so couldn't explain x". He looks kinda like he's scum hunting, but he's just looking for weaknesses. tl;dr:
he's clearly capable of thinking critically about the game state, but he's not doing it.


VOTE: Luca Blight

I take back scum reading DeasVail
. Reading him in context, I got scummy vibes, but reading his ISO, he seems town. I'll have to wait until I'm actively playing with him before I go further.

IceGuy, Ectomancer, kelbris, Viome, I have no opinions on yet.

Yuria pings me a little, but I've got no reason to actually scum read her.

Transcend
: I don't want to town read him, but
I'm not open to lynching him today
.


Effort, activity, and even rage-quits are NAI,
and most of you should know that. Some people are drawn to this game for the puzzle, and others really enjoy being aggressive in their scum-hunting. That doesn't always mix well. Elmo was clearly a puzzle-person. Having to be on the defensive from the beginning over someone's "gut", is the opposite of fun for a puzzle person. I sympathize. Luckily, I'm a puzzle person who's also a bit of an asshole, so we should all get along fine.
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Post Post #396 (isolation #3) » Mon Nov 06, 2017 11:26 am

Post by boring »

In post 393, DeasVail wrote:
In post 386, boring wrote:I'm going to need a few of you to unvote for a little bit.
Why?
Because I don't want a lolhammer.
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Post Post #398 (isolation #4) » Mon Nov 06, 2017 11:30 am

Post by boring »

In post 394, Transcend wrote:Because she's gonna attempt to draw out a pr lol

Hard Claim: Innocent Colombia!
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Post Post #403 (isolation #5) » Mon Nov 06, 2017 11:38 am

Post by boring »

In post 401, Transcend wrote:Boring's reads:

"I tr the people not voting me and fos the person who wants my death second most to transcend"

The reason was honestly quite a stretch as well
The pot is calling the kettle black, if you're claiming I'm conf-biased. I admitted to my OMGUSy feelings, but I stand by my rationale.

Also, we both know ain't nuthin innocent about Chile.
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Post Post #404 (isolation #6) » Mon Nov 06, 2017 11:40 am

Post by boring »

In post 401, Transcend wrote:Boring's reads:

"I tr the people not voting me and fos the person who wants my death second most to transcend"

The reason was honestly quite a stretch as well
wait, wat? You just tl'dr'd that shit, didn't you? I said I don't
want
to town read you.... what does that mean to you? I also said (and highlighted) I'm not open to lynching you today. So how does that put you in the bottom two?
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Post Post #405 (isolation #7) » Mon Nov 06, 2017 11:42 am

Post by boring »

Luca is my main scum read right now, but I would extrapolate from all that that Yuria is my distant second. I dunno. my null pool has potential too. I just haven't gotten around to them yet and nothing has jumped out at me... if anything, you end up around #4 in my TR list by default.
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Post Post #407 (isolation #8) » Mon Nov 06, 2017 11:45 am

Post by boring »

Oooh. Okay. Well, vote him anyway.
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Post Post #409 (isolation #9) » Mon Nov 06, 2017 11:49 am

Post by boring »

Because I'm pretty sure I'm right.

Go through Luca's ISO. I started putting together a list of posts to illustrate my point, but then I ended up just basically quoting his whole thing and quit. Just read my paragraph on him, and browse through it. Tell me you don't see what I see.
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Post Post #411 (isolation #10) » Mon Nov 06, 2017 11:50 am

Post by boring »

Thank you. I'll be back in about 4 hours.
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Post Post #423 (isolation #11) » Mon Nov 06, 2017 2:26 pm

Post by boring »

DST has me all fucked up, so I'm back early then going to bed.

@Luca - how is implicitly agreeing with Transcend not buddying? That's the
only way
to buddy the cockiest mo'fo' in the game.

@Transcend - why is the low-posting is so scummy to you? You have way more volume of material to sort through on other players. If, by sheer dumb luck, you're right, that's peachy. Otherwise, we have a worthless townie lynch. Did you look at Luca's ISO? ... and Town!boring never endgames, so no worries there... unless I've subbed in on the last day. Fuck, I'll be thrilled to make it to D2.

@Yuria - can you walk me through your kelbris vote? He's not even registering for me yet, so I want to understand why he's your scummiest pick.

@everyone - CHECK OUT LUCA'S ISO!
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Post Post #425 (isolation #12) » Mon Nov 06, 2017 2:32 pm

Post by boring »

Okedoke. what's your take on his ISO?
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Post Post #427 (isolation #13) » Mon Nov 06, 2017 2:55 pm

Post by boring »

Spoiler:
In post 119, Transcend wrote:Aite Elmo can die
In post 134, DeasVail wrote:!!!!!!!!

I’m on phone and don’t have much time so I’m not going to bother with vote tags, but I would be voting Elmo right now.

The timing of his mutant vote and suspicion is very suspect.

- Mutant gains suspicion for his long reads post
- Suspicion on Mutant is then on the verge of dying down.
- Elmo makes a post pushing the same thing as other people were earlier, Except it’s sort of outdated and Mutant is really looking quite town imo now. THEN there’s the post about it not being because he necessarily thinks the post is from scum which really screams of not committing himself to the stance. If he thinks mutants post was useless but not scum my, why vote for Mutant? Especially considering the issue has already been discussed and he’s already received “pressure” for it, so that can’t be the reason.

Also Ice why are you voting for Luca?
In post 135, Luca Blight wrote:^That's actually a good point on Elmo ^

Furthermore, he avoided answering IceGuy's question regarding this in

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Elmo
In post 138, Transcend wrote:VOTE: Elmo
In post 139, Luca Blight wrote:There was also something about her opening post that pinged me as well:
In post 8, Elmo TeH AzN wrote:
In post 3, Transcend wrote:
I HARDCLAIM INNOCENT CHILE
Welp Your dead tonight

VOTE: Dead I mean Deas
Long time
Like Sheep mentioned after, it's as if she has knowledge of the selected PR's to say that the IC claim would be killed tonight.
In post 144, DeasVail wrote:oops I forgot that I was already voting for Elmo. Well there you go!

And Transcend,
In post 61, Transcend wrote:Town reading me makes me think you're informed lol
I would still appreciate an explanation of this.


I didn't address your points because they were non-points. You may have been the first to put a vote on my slot, but two other people called for Elmo's head, Transcend being first. I won't include all of your banter with him because meh. I'm also not posting your whole ISO to break down each post individually because it's time-consuming, and difficult for people to read. It's easier to just skim through it themselves. Besides, I'm not super interested in having a lengthy exchange with you. It just makes the game boring (see what I did there?)

Regardless, you stuck on my slot rather than the hopping you did before, and your reasoning boiled down to, "yeah, this low-poster has delayed timing, lynch her!". Further, my "content" isn't much of a reason to unvote my slot, if you were so convinced. Effort level, especially from players unknown to you, is not something you should judge alignment by. I mean, if anything, my lynch is more useful to town now than before, if you actually believed I was scum.
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Post Post #431 (isolation #14) » Mon Nov 06, 2017 3:16 pm

Post by boring »

I quoted you not really being the first to vote me.. and Transcend calling for my head first. You just quotted me saying I wasn't bothering to post all of it.

Why on earth is it a good idea to vote an absentee? Also, it's not really the votee's primary responsibility to convince others they are town. It's the voter's responsibility to look for scum. I don't know how to explain that better.

You're quoting actions and I'm suggesting intention. I'm not calling you scum for voting me or for unvoting me or for using the word "hilarious" in an irksome way (though, dude..). I am seeing a pattern that indicates a scum motive. I'm asking other to look at my observation, look at your play, and tell me what they think. The fact that no one has yet kind of sucks, but oh well. No one is going to read our long exchanges either. Most players are using their phone, and have short attention spans/limited spare time.

Since no one seems to agree with me, I don't know why you're so terribly bothered. Why not "hunt" Viomi? Whoever currently comes in second for lowest poster?
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Post Post #433 (isolation #15) » Mon Nov 06, 2017 3:18 pm

Post by boring »

In post 430, Transcend wrote:
In post 423, boring wrote:@Transcend - why is the low-posting is so scummy to you? You have way more volume of material to sort through on other players. If, by sheer dumb luck, you're right, that's peachy. Otherwise, we have a worthless townie lynch. Did you look at Luca's ISO? ... and Town!boring never endgames, so no worries there... unless I've subbed in on the last day. Fuck, I'll be thrilled to make it to D2.
VOTE: boring

cemented
That's an odd quote to choose, but I guess it lacks justifiable sheep-ability, which is always nice.
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Post Post #437 (isolation #16) » Mon Nov 06, 2017 3:47 pm

Post by boring »

In post 435, Luca Blight wrote:
In post 431, boring wrote:
I quoted you not really being the first to vote me
.. and Transcend calling for my head first. You just quotted me saying I wasn't bothering to post all of it.

Why on earth is it a good idea to vote an absentee?
Also, it's not really the votee's primary responsibility to convince others they are town. It's the voter's responsibility to look for scum. I don't know how to explain that better.

You're quoting actions and I'm suggesting intention. I'm not calling you scum for voting me or for unvoting me or for using the word "hilarious" in an irksome way (though, dude..). I am seeing a pattern that indicates a scum motive. I'm asking other to look at my observation, look at your play, and tell me what they think. The fact that no one has yet kind of sucks, but oh well. No one is going to read our long exchanges either. Most players are using their phone, and have short attention spans/limited spare time.


Since no one seems to agree with me, I don't know why you're so terribly bothered. Why not "hunt" Viomi? Whoever currently comes in second for lowest poster?
Underlined
- I already acknowledged that Deas thought he was already on the wagon. Why are you only suspecting me for voting your slot and not the others who followed suit?

Italics
- Viomi isn't an absentee - she just came in to respond to Transcend's suspicion. And if she's going to be this inactive until December 3rd then she really shouldn't be in the game anyway. I don't know how else I'm supposed to get a read on that slot if I don't apply some pressure at least.

Bolded
- perhaps if no-one else is looking for it you should point it out clearly to them? Describe what exactly this scummy pattern is. I just clearly proved your assertion that I'm 'convinced' your slot is scum is false, yet you don't acknowledge that fact.

Blue
- Now you're suggesting I shouldn't even be replying to the points against me? The points you've raised have been utter BS and I've refuted every single one of them, yet you're still voting me? Justify your vote.
Fine.

I'm not suspecting you for voting me, as I said above. It's one small piece of a bigger picture. I have not spent the time necessary to go into as much detail scrutinizing others because since making my observation on what stood out in you, you and Transcend that been pretty thoroughly been occupying my time. You, by demanding 100% of my attention, and Transcend by playing lynch monkey.


I can understand suspecting Viomi for only arriving in response to attention. The point about her V/LA, however, is something to leave to the mod. Policy lynches are bad policy. And as I said to Transcend, a low poster is a poor choice for lynch D1. If there's a vig, that's their job. We should be actively looking for scummy players


I did describe the scummy pattern when I initially voted. I believe you were buddying Transcend, sticking to a popular wagon, and most significantly, knit-picking in a way that indicates a pursuit of weakness rather than scumhunting. It's the difference between looking for a villian and looking for a victim. Your exchanges with Fitz and mutant illustrated that best, IMO.


The points I've raised have been amorphous compared to yours because motivation is rarely something that can be concretely communicated. I can understand that being frustrating from a defensive standpoint. The fact that you're putting in this much effort to engage me despite my efforts to disengage, and the lack of consequences for you to just hop back on my wagon, kind of dampens my thunder. Also, I don't feel like you're knit-picking me the way you did Fitz. Though, I believe I've defended my vote on you at far more length than any vote has been addressed at this point in the game. I don't know. I'm running out of steam and confidence.


UNVOTE:
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Post Post #439 (isolation #17) » Mon Nov 06, 2017 3:49 pm

Post by boring »

dude, were you just sitting here hitting "refresh" every two seconds?
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Post Post #443 (isolation #18) » Mon Nov 06, 2017 3:55 pm

Post by boring »

In post 441, Luca Blight wrote:Do you still believe I was buddying Transcend? I asked you to prove it and you haven't done so.
Sure, hang on...
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Post Post #444 (isolation #19) » Mon Nov 06, 2017 4:14 pm

Post by boring »

In post 443, boring wrote:
In post 441, Luca Blight wrote:Do you still believe I was buddying Transcend? I asked you to prove it and you haven't done so.
Sure, hang on...
First banter
Spoiler:
In post 56, Luca Blight wrote:
In post 53, Transcend wrote:I think I'm someone that will always be bothered by naked unvotes
Why is a naked unvote worse than a naked vote?
In post 70, Luca Blight wrote:Speaking of dumb questions....
In post 73, Transcend wrote:But you don't even deny that your question was a dumb one so lol
In post 74, Luca Blight wrote:
In post 73, Transcend wrote:But you don't even deny that your question was a dumb one so lol
How is it dumb exactly?
In post 75, Transcend wrote:VOTE: Luca Blight
In post 76, Luca Blight wrote:I think I'm someone that will always be bothered by naked votes
In post 77, Transcend wrote:Deal with it
In post 78, Luca Blight wrote:I won't just deal with it, I'll
transcend
it.


Whiteknighty
Spoiler:
In post 120, Luca Blight wrote:
In post 109, havingfitz wrote:I don't feel like individually addressing mutant and Luca's suspicions towards me point by point but since they seem to be along the same lines I will say this:

- imo it's not the worst thing in the world for an IC to claim right out of the gates. I kind of lump them with millers in that regard. So Transcend's claim, if true, wasn't horrible.
- if I were an IC I would not claim until I was on the verge of being mislynched.
- if an IC did see the need to claim...I would expect them to have the mod confirm the claim.
- I really dislike when town (assuming Transcend is town) claims a PR that they are not.
- anything that introduces the possibility of a genuine town PR CC'ing and therefore outing themself is bad bad bad. Hence my vote on Transcend.
If it's not so bad for an IC to claim straight away, why were you so annoyed Transcend might have caused a potential real IC to claim?

The rest is just repetition of what you've already said.
In post 109, havingfitz wrote: - Transcend, in my estimation, is a bit of a wildcard and sometimes does things I might not necessarily say or due...so when he mentioned the mod had referred to the role as innocent chile (which I had not recalled) I could absolutely see a joke claim coming from town Transcend. Hence the unvote.
- My current read on Transcend is a town lean. His Innocent Chile lol claim could have been from either alignment so I'm just going to ignore it.
So why the hell did you vote Transcend?
In post 109, havingfitz wrote: - I think Luca's push/vote on me is weak and I was considering a vote on himn...but I'm not sure I like the consistency of his wagon so I'm not going to vote him at this time.

I want to look over a few players who have my attention before deciding where to vote.
Consistency of my wagon? What are you talking about?

I gave multiple reasons I don't like your play so far and you've ignored pretty much all of it, so it's a bit 'weak' of you to call my push weak.


No issue with the naked vote this time?
Spoiler:
In post 138, Transcend wrote:VOTE: Elmo


One of you has to be scum to be feeding off one another like this, and with everything else, I figured you were the most likely. I mean, you can't both be this trusting/naive, right?
Spoiler:
In post 326, Luca Blight wrote:Basically your scumread on IceGuy is based almost entirely on Elmo being scum?
In post 327, Transcend wrote:There's actually a world where Elmo can be town if ice is scum
In post 328, Transcend wrote:Chainsawing is a thing ykno
In post 329, Transcend wrote:Personally if i were scum with Elmo, I'd bus the shit out of her without giving her wiggle room
In post 330, Luca Blight wrote:^ So would I, if there wasn't scumchat.
In post 331, Transcend wrote:Meh

What's a better flip

Ice or Elmo
In post 332, Transcend wrote:I kinda think you're town at this point so i value your input
In post 355, Luca Blight wrote:
In post 331, Transcend wrote:Meh

What's a better flip

Ice or Elmo
I would say Elmo.

IceGuy doesn't really ping me at all to be honest and I think his vote on Kelbris is perfectly reasonable.

If I wasn't voting Elmo right now then my vote would most probably be on Kelbris.
In post 360, Luca Blight wrote:Only problem is if Elmo flips Town we gain absolutely nothing from today: It's such an easy wagon that nothing could be gained from analysing it.

There's also slots like the Viome one that haven't contributed at all today - I would like them to before the day is out otherwise they have just been given a complete free pass for D1.
In post 361, Transcend wrote:You're correct

But the mutant votes are all terrible
In post 363, Luca Blight wrote:Deas, what would be your thoughts if Elmo flipped Town?
In post 364, Transcend wrote:Kill the slot already

It clearly doesn't have a chance in hell at surviving
In post 365, Luca Blight wrote:Just seen Viome is V/LA until December 3rd.....this doesn't bode well.
In post 366, Transcend wrote:Yeah that slot can get vigged if it exists lol
In post 375, Luca Blight wrote:It's unlikely Elmo is IC as she would have claimed that shit with joy by now. It's unlikely she is vig as she would be holding out hope for putting a bullet in Transcend's head. It's unlikely she is JK because of her first post.

That kind of whittles it down. So yeah, I guess it is unlikely she would be a PR.
In post 376, Transcend wrote:It's unlikely she is vt because she's claimed scum in every post lol


Now I'm tired, and going to bed. Vote me you gotta. Fitz and Fish are def. town. Mutant has to be town or really good at playing too-scummy-to-be-scum, in which case, fool me once.... Transcend will lose town the game, regardless of his alignment, if he's going to browbeat every day. Honestly, he may be the best vig target. Yuria could be scum. She's next on my list of players to better review.
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Post Post #445 (isolation #20) » Mon Nov 06, 2017 4:14 pm

Post by boring »

*vote me IF you gotta
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Post Post #509 (isolation #21) » Tue Nov 07, 2017 4:10 am

Post by boring »

Transcend, focus. I'm the one you're supposed to be harassing, remember?
..... want you to make me feel like I'm the only girl in the world .....


* back to the game *

I'm going to start combing through the players I've glossed over. Then I'll go over the ones who I already read again (Fitz, Fish, Luca, Mutant, and Transcend) to make sure nothing has changed my mind. I'll report as I go and have it all done with at least a 48 hours buffer to deadline. I'm open to answering questions that call for clarity. If my lynch is a foregone conclusion, then I have no reason to address any more loaded questions or tunnel entrances.
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Post Post #516 (isolation #22) » Tue Nov 07, 2017 4:19 am

Post by boring »

In post 513, havingfitz wrote:boring....why the Luca unvote?
His pursuit of answers started to make more sense to me from town than scum. Also, I was beginning to question whether I was conflating his motivation and his personality.
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Post Post #522 (isolation #23) » Tue Nov 07, 2017 4:54 am

Post by boring »

Spoiler:
In post 30, Ectomancer wrote:
In post 25, Elmo TeH AzN wrote:
In post 23, Ectomancer wrote:
In post 21, IceGuy wrote:
In post 17, havingfitz wrote:[
I believe you.
But can you ask the mod to confirm you are IC to remove all doubt?
If you're actually IC, don't do this.
He is quite clearly Inexperience Challenged. Now quit flapping your gums and jump on his wagon.
Why so hasty
There are two wagons today. Transcend and IceGuy and he wouldn't jump on his own wagon right? And I can't get both a Transcend and an Iceguy wagon going by myself, I'm going to need some help. So naturally I am going to petition the guy who wouldn't be on an Iceguy wagon to anchor this Transcend one for me.
We are starting to get some movement on Transcend though, so I am going to:

UNVOTE: Transcend

VOTE: Iceguy


Transcend kicks off the game with the "IC" claim (quoted due to "Chile") and havingfritz decides to cross foils with him. So it begins. I don't know the alignment of these two, but they were creating information and rope by which people might hang themselves.
I asked myself why Iceguy would state the super obvious to Transcend to not ask the mod to confirm the role claimed. Iceguy has been around, but Transcend has literally 10x the number of posts of either one of us. So I'm slapping Iceguy with an "I'm a super helpful townie" scum tell violation.


Ectomancer
looks
town
. The post above is my favorite (try to focus on the motivation behind a post like that rather than the content). The way he cheered on Luca looked very town motivated too. He engaged Elmo productively, or at least tried. He also appears motivated to move the game along.
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Post Post #531 (isolation #24) » Tue Nov 07, 2017 9:09 am

Post by boring »

In post 523, Transcend wrote:K but who is mafia

Your only sr was luca

He called you out on your bullshit

You backpedaled

Find another substantial fos plz
Patience, sweetheart.
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Post Post #533 (isolation #25) » Tue Nov 07, 2017 9:55 am

Post by boring »

I'm stuck on DeasVail. I'm stuck because of the general impression that he's playing a good scum game. His posts are mild, his targets are easy, and his explanations seem good on the surface.

This post
Spoiler:
In post 246, DeasVail wrote:
In post 228, Luca Blight wrote:Deas, you said earlier in the game you were 'very torn' on IceGuy and I see you've now unvoted and excluded him from your lynch pool.

Can you walk me through your read progression of IceGuy so far?
I remember thinking that I might RVS this as it seemed slightly over-explanatory, but overall not that significant.

I became more concerned at , as I was pretty sure it was a usual thing for people to exaggerate "scumreads" in early game and so it seemed overly defensive. had a similar vibe, as I didn't get that impression from Ectomancer at all.

However, I then liked his approach to mutant. He expressed suspicion of mutant's reads list but also took initiative in working out whether this was something alignment-indicative for mutant or not (a step beyond the other players in the game from memory)

Since then, I think his approach to the Elmo wagon has been fairly town, as was his suspicion of me followed by unvote.

He is a townread for me at this point in time.
In post 229, IceGuy wrote:
In post 225, DeasVail wrote: Also, current lynch pool for me (in order of appearance on the playerlist):

Yuria
Fishy
Elmo
kelbris
Viome
Would you mind explaining why those people are in your lynch pool?
Elmo is the only person I explicitly have a scumread on (I am still of this opinion, as well, fwiw).

The other four stand out to me as people that have not made much of an impression. I explicitly do not read them as town, nor do I have another good reason for keeping them around. (E.g. I'm not sure about my read on havingfitz but I have played with him before and expect that I will have a better idea as the game goes on. Luca is someone that is very pro-town, but I haven't formed a solid opinion on his actual alignment yet. However, I would be unlikely to lynch him as I feel that his alignment will become obvious with time).

The lynch pool explanation in particular illustrates my concern. It's an easy pool. It's all people who aren't trying very hard (or are trying, but bad at fitting into the site meta). It's a pool that's pretty easy for most players to swallow too. Even those in it, as he's not actively gunning for any of them.

I babble, and this looks like a babble post I might make, except he's not me. So unless we're soul brothas, I can't assume it was just aimless babble. Only, I can't figure out the aim
Spoiler:
In post 374, DeasVail wrote:
In post 363, Luca Blight wrote:Deas, what would be your thoughts if Elmo flipped Town?
I don’t have time right now to go through things with an Elmo-town mindset (and I tend not to read things with the assumption of a particular alignment until there’s a flip because I’m a slow thinker and also a bit lazy), but I would look at things like how people interacted around the wagon. With an easy mislynch I’d expect scum to feel almost guilty about being associated with it and see if that were betrayed by their posts. I’d also pay attention to more generic things that could be amplified by the situation, such as an increased self-consciousness and care put into how they look with anything Elmo-related. And if someone is avoiding the wagon, why are they avoiding it. Do the reasons feel informed? Are they trying to look town by not mislynching Elmo? It’s difficult speaking in general terms like this without examples, but that’s the best I can do.

I also think it’s very unlikely that Elmo is a town PR and I don’t think kelbris is as likely to be scum.

I picked DaesVail to review after Ecto, because I was expecting him to come out as a town lean. A good scum game looks like this. An okay town game looks like this too. This is completely unhelpful at the moment, I realize, but it may be helpful to someone later. Whether this is a good scum game or a "meh" town game should become more obvious over time.


p-edit: @Fishythefish: I saw just today that Yuria also made a "wait for the replacement" comment, which I hadn't noticed before, but you and Fitz didn't just not vote me. I saw you both discussing my lynch in a way that would make it difficult for you to justify a sudden hammer. That suggests town motivation.
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Post Post #535 (isolation #26) » Tue Nov 07, 2017 10:16 am

Post by boring »

Spoiler:
In post 154, Yuria wrote:
In post 97, mutantdevle wrote:
In post 88, Yuria wrote:
In post 66, Transcend wrote:
Nice job dodging the question
yeah, I have a reason. Not gonna push it until I've seen more from them, but it wasn't just random.
I don't understand why you feel you'd have anything to cause you to hold out on such a trivial read at this point in the game.
Speak for yourself. I wanted to interact with fishy in a way other than just asking "shouldn't you be voting iceguy?" so I wouldn't put him on the defensive immediately and give him an excuse to join the wagon. It's hard for me to tell whether he actually forgot to vote or not but I'm not willing to write it off just yet.
In post 94, Fishythefish wrote: No, I'm not implying that scum wouldn't wagon hop. IceGuy is saying specifically that "Ectomancer seems more intent on finding somebody to lynch, instead of finding scum." I don't think that fits well with Ectomancer's actions - hopping between two about equally sized wagons doesn't really look like going for any old lynch - so I want to hear more from IceGuy on why he thinks this.
In post 118, Fishythefish wrote: If Ectomancer wants to "look towny for not hopping too much" on these early wagons, surely leaving Transcend's wagon would undermine that? For this to make sense, I think Ectomancer would have to be able to use their early vote on Transcend as cover for a vote later. And they pretty clearly couldn't.
Can you explain what's alignment indicative for iceguy about this line of questioning? These posts feel like they're reading too much into ecto's actions too much to defend them for no reason.

VOTE: Elmo
She really needs to explain her vote and her previous excuses/setup talk pinged me. I still like my fishy vote explaining why she wants to lynch based on usefulness when criticizing mutant for the same thing is more important rn.

also iceguy's wagon is more understandable on a reread. I'm still mulling over whether he's worth voting or not.

(that's l-2 if y'all aren't paying attention)
In post 420, Yuria wrote:
In post 358, DeasVail wrote:
In post 354, Yuria wrote:why'd you hold off if you were comfortable with putting her at l-1 lol
Ive since decided that I’m okay with going ahead with the lynch. I probably would have hammered if I had checked the thread before your unvote.
No I mean what was making you doubt beforehand. You're going back and forth between confidence about Elmo scum and not and I don't understand what your actual perspective is. Moreover if she's an easy Lynch as you're callong what is making you so sure in this instance it's the right one?

I'm leaning weak town on Yuria, but with only 13 posts, I'm not willing to go so far as to stamp "TOWN" on her forehead. My favorite of her posts are above. The first illustrates what I see as a lack attention to how she's perceived, and both suggest that she's making an effort to gamesolve.
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Post Post #536 (isolation #27) » Tue Nov 07, 2017 10:25 am

Post by boring »

I don't think there's anything AI to be extracted from LUV/Viomi. LUV is one of the best players on this site (as both alignments), so there's no reason for him to dip out based on role. As for Viomi's increased activity with attention, it's in line with what we saw during the fall out. That is, a certain level of reactivity, which is more personality than alignment.


.... I'll do at least one more player in about 5-6 hours.
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Post Post #539 (isolation #28) » Tue Nov 07, 2017 2:28 pm

Post by boring »

In post 537, mutantdevle wrote:@boring I really like the way you are giving reads. It’s much nicer to read a post per person at a time and I think it reflects that you are indeed experienced at replacing into games.
Thank you!
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Post Post #541 (isolation #29) » Tue Nov 07, 2017 3:21 pm

Post by boring »

This is the kind of post that could spawn a game-theory dissertation. I understand the backlash.
Spoiler:
In post 21, IceGuy wrote:
In post 17, havingfitz wrote:[
I believe you.
But can you ask the mod to confirm you are IC to remove all doubt?
If you're actually IC, don't do this.


I also understand Elmo's reaction to Iceguy after this post. I disagree that it was a buddy attempt, though. It reads almost like blackmail. "As long as you don't fight too hard, I'll just sit back and let someone else take the blame for your lynch. But don't forget that I can fuck you up". I included the wagon breakdown, though because it's just so bizarre.
FTR, "pressure votes" are an easy excuse for scum to park on town without actual justification. And saying you want to "pressure" someone by warning them that your vote would be a hammer is all-around terrible.

Spoiler:
In post 212, IceGuy wrote:
@Mod: Please check DeasVail's vote. The VC shows him as voting Elmo, but he's voting me.

In post 161, Elmo TeH AzN wrote:
In post 160, IceGuy wrote:So, you don't think it's alignment indicative, but you voted him when pointing it out and still say your vote is in the right place. How does this make sense?
Personally I found it to be fluff at best. Im going to contradict myself here I'm completely aware of this.
Okay, so this is not a satisfactory answer. I'm still not going to vote you, because my vote would be the hammer, but I wanted it to be a pressure vote.

I don't really see a reason to hammer you, because I fail to see a scum motivation for your actions. What I also don't see is a town motivation for your actions.

Also, my point on how fast this wagon came together still stands. The wagon reeks of scum which indicates to me that it's a wagon on town.

[...]

So, let's have a look at the wagon on Elmo. The people on it are Ectomancer, Luca Blight, Transcend, mutantdevle and Yuria. DeasVail isn't on it but both the mod and he himself think he is, so I'm going to include him here.

Luca and Transcend look solid town. Yuria was in the scum camp but is getting townier; mutant is null to me.

DeasVail is scummy, though. Few posts, hopping with little justification (or attempted hopping, to be precise), no commitment to town reads and "strong suspicion" on Transcend for the fake hammer. Hammering without a claim should elicit a harsher reaction than a rather quiet post.

I also don't like Ecto. He still defends his RVS/non-RVS vote on me and he had absolutely no problem with putting Elmo on L-1. Ironically he's being "helpful town" in 172, the same thing he called me scum for. I'm no longer ready to see his behavior as "scummy town", I believe it's "scummy scum".

VOTE: DeasVail
and ready to also vote Ectomancer if that wagon turns out to be more successful


Are you real serious?
Spoiler:
boring continues Elmo's tradition of not doing anything that seems to have a scum motivation, while also not doing anything that helps town
.


Iceguy
definitely feels
scummy
. Scumlean for now. I'll wait to rank and vote until I'm done. I think I'm at least halfway through at this point.
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Post Post #544 (isolation #30) » Tue Nov 07, 2017 3:51 pm

Post by boring »

Yeah, so
kelbris
could also be
scum
. He seems hyper aware of how he's perceived, and there's no indication of town-motivation in his votes. Now, I get that not everyone would get that disagreement =/= scum when they are new to the game, but there's more to it in this case. I'm left with the overwhelming impression that he feels like a deer in the headlights. As if he's doing his best to avoid letting the team down too badly, by trying to place safe votes, and avoiding attention.
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Post Post #545 (isolation #31) » Tue Nov 07, 2017 4:03 pm

Post by boring »

In post 543, Transcend wrote:Well i agree with you about ice
Fuck yeah. Does that mean I don't have to sleep on the couch tonight? It's really lumpy... and covered in cat hair.


.... okay, sheep tomorrow, and then the review of Fitz, Fish, Luca, Transend, and Mutant. Probably all about 24 hours from now because Wednesdays are awful.
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Post Post #582 (isolation #32) » Wed Nov 08, 2017 2:09 pm

Post by boring »

In post 546, Ectomancer wrote:Geezus I hate this but I have to retract a town tell.

Town people please tell me....who the fuck died and made Transcend town? Nobody? Nobody died? Claimed? Night result? Nothing?
For me it comes down to faith in human decency. A town role makes people feel kind of like they are the "good guy". It let's some players feel justified in being aggressive toward others. As town, he can somewhat rationalize harassing people he believes are scum (the "bad guys"). I don't like it, but I get it.

If I have to assume that he's just harassed two townies out of the game as scum, I have to hold a low opinion of him as a person.
That's very poor sportsmanship, and frankly, I don't even know if his scum buddies would have had the stomach to support it.
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Post Post #587 (isolation #33) » Wed Nov 08, 2017 2:20 pm

Post by boring »

I'm
townleaning sheepsaysmeep
. He's making good observations, he's made a contribution with each post, I'm not seeing any LAMIST behavior, and he doesn't seem interested in blending in.
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Post Post #588 (isolation #34) » Wed Nov 08, 2017 2:21 pm

Post by boring »

@Rem: I really hope post#586 wasn't you answer to Transcend's question.
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Post Post #593 (isolation #35) » Wed Nov 08, 2017 2:41 pm

Post by boring »

In post 589, Rem wrote:
In post 587, boring wrote:I'm
townleaning sheepsaysmeep
. He's making good observations, he's made a contribution with each post, I'm not seeing any LAMIST behavior, and he doesn't seem interested in blending in.
Not being LAMIST isn't really town indicative.
Sheep contributing with every post is just objectively wrong.


Could you explain the contributions you like out of him?
First Luca, then mutant, now you. I've stumbled into a game populated by people who don't understand the word "and". Or maybe I've failed to communicate my intentions with such lists: They are a series of factors that combine to form a read -- something more than the sum of its parts.

*ninja'd by ecto* I'm not playing the ISO-game again. I'll show you the only posts that didn't contribute something meaningful to the game: two were prodges and one was a request for hydra. Perhaps I should have clarified that he didn't just say something to say something. Each post has a clear purpose.
Spoiler:
In post 150, sheepsaysmeep wrote:prodge
will read this thread when i have time later today
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Post Post #599 (isolation #36) » Wed Nov 08, 2017 2:50 pm

Post by boring »

In post 590, Ectomancer wrote:
In post 582, boring wrote:
In post 546, Ectomancer wrote:Geezus I hate this but I have to retract a town tell.

Town people please tell me....who the fuck died and made Transcend town? Nobody? Nobody died? Claimed? Night result? Nothing?
For me it comes down to faith in human decency. A town role makes people feel kind of like they are the "good guy". It let's some players feel justified in being aggressive toward others. As town, he can somewhat rationalize harassing people he believes are scum (the "bad guys"). I don't like it, but I get it.

If I have to assume that he's just harassed two townies out of the game as scum, I have to hold a low opinion of him as a person.
That's very poor sportsmanship, and frankly, I don't even know if his scum buddies would have had the stomach to support it.
Alright now, you dropped the ball on this answer.

I'm aggressive. It doesn't make me town. It doesn't make Transcend town. Your comment makes it appear as though you
don't
get that.

There's a nuance I don't think you're picking up on, but it's okay. You're not playing the same kind of aggressive this game. And I'll admit, I've made that argument for reads in the past, and I've been wrong once. I just don't play with that person anymore because it disgusts me.
In post 590, Ectomancer wrote:Worse, your stance would encourage scum to play aggressively;
That thought occurred to me just after hitting the "submit" button.
In post 590, Ectomancer wrote:as you just gave Transcend such a town read based upon aggressive meta, it then resulted in you arguing about buddying as if Transcend were
actually
town.
Good point.
In post 590, Ectomancer wrote:I want boring's claim and then I want Iceguy lynched. Why? Iceguy is a better lynch but I
do want that boring claim
.
I'm not going to claim.
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Post Post #603 (isolation #37) » Wed Nov 08, 2017 3:04 pm

Post by boring »

Fishy
is still looking
solid town
.

Fitz
is more of a
townlean
, now. I still see where he could have hammered without consequence if he was scum, but I've seen him play townier. There was a fair bit of self-defence in the beginning and not a lot of scum hunting since then. I'm hoping he'll be more active soon.
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Post Post #604 (isolation #38) » Wed Nov 08, 2017 3:17 pm

Post by boring »

I'm going to go back on what I said yesterday and skip
Luca
for now. It's taken a fair bit of effort to ignore what feels like baiting remarks, which means we'll end up bickering again. He's not getting lynched today, and I'm pretty close to sure that I'm just colliding with his personality, and not his role-based motivation. That makes most of my original read NAI, and forces me to wait until I can read clearly. Just call him
null
for now.
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Post Post #605 (isolation #39) » Wed Nov 08, 2017 3:37 pm

Post by boring »

I also wanted to say that I think
Transcend
is
town
for more than aggressive playstyle.

I think entrances like his are done with a town motivation. They are often intended to stir things up early and catch clumsy scum. (My problem is it catches inexperienced townies too, and it makes them indistinguishable from clumsy scum.) I know I've never seen scum pull such a loud gambit from the first page.
(yes, ecto, I know, but in for a penny, in for a pound)
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Post Post #606 (isolation #40) » Wed Nov 08, 2017 3:54 pm

Post by boring »

Spoiler:
In post 522, boring wrote:
Ectomancer
looks
town
. The post above is my favorite (try to focus on the motivation behind a post like that rather than the content). The way he cheered on Luca looked very town motivated too. He engaged Elmo productively, or at least tried. He also appears motivated to move the game along.

I want to reduce
Ectomancer
to
townlean
because I can't think up any town motivation for wanting me -- or anyone -- to claim right now.

- If I'm a PR, that's a bad idea.
- If I'm a VT, it narrows the pool of potential PRs for scum, which is a bad idea.
- If I'm scum, it risks drawing out a PR, which is a bad idea.
- If he thinks I'm scum and he wants to pin me down to claim, then it brings us back to the above-mentioned bad ideas, and begs the question: why not just vote me?
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Post Post #608 (isolation #41) » Wed Nov 08, 2017 4:14 pm

Post by boring »

In post 606, boring wrote: - If he thinks I'm scum and he wants to pin me down to claim, then it brings us back to the above-mentioned bad ideas, and begs the question:
why not just vote me
?
..... :facepalm: ....... well, the rest of my point still stands.

with that, I'm going to bed

Rem's entrance was super pingy, but I feel more solid with Iceguy

VOTE: Iceguy
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Post Post #657 (isolation #42) » Thu Nov 09, 2017 2:22 pm

Post by boring »

How likely is it that we have a vig? If so, is there any way we can obligate him/her to vig Transcend tonight? He's far and away town's greatest liability, and if I'm wrong about his alignment, all the better.

I don't like policy lynches.
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Post Post #659 (isolation #43) » Thu Nov 09, 2017 2:31 pm

Post by boring »

In post 658, Transcend wrote:don't vig a town pr
Why not? If you are a pr, you've done a craptastic job of safeguarding your potential benefit. That kind of brings us back to you as a liability, doesn't it?
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Post Post #660 (isolation #44) » Thu Nov 09, 2017 2:40 pm

Post by boring »

I've been mulling his game over in my head all day. Ectomancer's post asking us why we were townreading Transcend keeps striking me as frustrated scum. At least I've made posts like that before when I was disgruntled over someone who should be easy to lynch was being widely townread.

Am I reading too much into it? (not a rhetorical question)
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Post Post #662 (isolation #45) » Thu Nov 09, 2017 3:00 pm

Post by boring »

In post 632, mutantdevle wrote: It's almost as if you view your own opinion as the most important and hence are shoving it down our throats. It also falls into the whole trap I fell in of looking scummy by being overly helpful. I doubt that's the impression you were trying to give but since a good portion of your posts as basically reads or read updates rather than general discussion it's the way it's coming across to me.
Well, yeah. I guess I assumed it was obvious, but my chances of seeing D2 are slim. Pointless back-and-forths just tie up everyone's time. So I'm leaving behind as much info as I can. It provides remaining town with genuine reads they can reference later. I'm not a great game reader by any means, but I'm usually decent.

I suppose if it's super annoying, you can put me on "ignore" until my flip.
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Post Post #664 (isolation #46) » Thu Nov 09, 2017 3:06 pm

Post by boring »

I'm still really okay with lynching Iceguy, by the way, if anyone wants to hop on the wagon.

And I'm pretty convinced that kelbris and Iceguy can't be scum together. So if Iceguy flips red, I think we can clear kelbris.
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Post Post #671 (isolation #47) » Thu Nov 09, 2017 5:21 pm

Post by boring »

What's the chance that all four players on my wagon are actually town?

I'm going with no chance.

@Transcend, who's the scum on my wagon?
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Post Post #701 (isolation #48) » Fri Nov 10, 2017 2:19 am

Post by boring »

Okay kids, I'm ready for hammer. I believe I've done my best with this slot given the game state and composition.

-Iceguy is my best scumread. I don't think he can be scum with kelbris. I think it's possible for Ecto and Iceguy to be on the same team, however.

-I don't get the Yuria + Iceguy connection. It's possible Yuria is scum too, but I don't understand why they have to be scum together.

-I keep going back and forth on Ecto, Luca, and Daes. Keep a watch on the vote counts.

-Please don't overvalue of scum daytalk. It's rarely utilized as well as town imagines.

-There are a lot of conflicting personalities. Personality is NAI.

-Please, please don't develop amnesia on later days. If someone lurks/eeks their way into lylo then suddenly turns ubertown, for the love of puppies, review.
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Post Post #749 (isolation #49) » Fri Nov 10, 2017 7:50 am

Post by boring »

@mutant - VT are expendable. They are supposed to try to draw NK by being obviously town.

Transcend has chosen nonstop manipulation and cajoling instead. I truly understand wanting him gone, but all of his gambits have been obvious to those who have been around the many players on this site who pull this crap.

He should have known better, though, seeing as almost half the player list seems naïve to his brand of play.


@Luca - I don't think kelbris and Iceguy can be scum together because they are both rather uncomfortable/awkward. I don't think they would spend so much time on each other's wagons when equally or more popular ones are available. Basically, I'm pretty sure today has been a rollercoaster for any inexperienced scum out there. I don't see the two of them together, even with a third buddy helping them (I don't see Kelbris taking direction well, btw) being that clever with their votes.

Ectomancer, on the other hand, seems perfectly capable of hard-bussing a buddy, especially if that buddy seems incompetent. I'm not saying they are a guaranteed pair, but I wouldn't give Ecto an ounce of town cred for Iceguy's flip.
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Post Post #755 (isolation #50) » Fri Nov 10, 2017 9:38 am

Post by boring »

@deasvail - is Iceguy town to you? Or am I a stronger scumread?
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Post Post #797 (isolation #51) » Sat Nov 11, 2017 2:03 am

Post by boring »

In post 792, Transcend wrote: i'm legitimately one of the most stubborn confbiased pieces of shit you'll ever meet in your mafia career
Preach

I'd rank you #2.
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Post Post #798 (isolation #52) » Sat Nov 11, 2017 2:04 am

Post by boring »

Seriously, folks. You're running out of time. Me or Ice guy
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Post Post #807 (isolation #53) » Sat Nov 11, 2017 8:36 am

Post by boring »

I don't think I've ever seen D1 tied up quite like this before. I've seen it other days, of course. Normally, it's paired with a few MLs, and indicates a deep scum (or two).

Has anyone seen this kind of thing so close to deadline Day 1?
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Post Post #832 (isolation #54) » Sun Nov 12, 2017 1:49 am

Post by boring »

I'm really out of things say, except the idea of Iceguy and I being partners is pretty insulting. I mean, I've had a bad scum game before due to lack of effort, or failed experiment, but there's no way I could be that bad.

Iceguy is just afraid to get on my wagon. He's trying to look town by opposing it, since I made such a point of TRing those who opposed it before. I don't get how that's not ridiculously obvious.

Either no one in the scum team knows what they're doing, or some poor bastard(s) is so fucking done with him right now, and has given him up for dead.

If you're just planning to lynch Iceguy and then pin me as his associate, I'd rather leave now.

Fuck it, I'm a distraction to actual scum hunting anyway.

VOTE: boring

I'm scum leaning DeasVail. He's passively bucking the Iceguy lynch, and his vote on me seems more like convenience than conviction. Just more blending in.

Town leaning Luca.

Probably not coming back. Good luck everyone!
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Post Post #836 (isolation #55) » Sun Nov 12, 2017 2:05 am

Post by boring »

VOTE: Iceguy
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Post Post #838 (isolation #56) » Sun Nov 12, 2017 2:08 am

Post by boring »

I'm not tolerating a no lynch, either. I'm busy for most of the day. If I get a chance to pop in closer to deadline, and he's not close to lynch, it's going back on me.
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Post Post #866 (isolation #57) » Sun Nov 12, 2017 3:26 pm

Post by boring »

In post 846, Luca Blight wrote: Unless anyone is interested in a Deas flash-wagon?
I think I might have been up for it like 48 hours ago. I dunno, though. His swing from null to scumlean developed pretty recently. I think we should visit Deas tomorrow.

I'm not thrilled about rem, sheep, and fitz being MIA for EOD, either. It's not like they didn't have a count-down timer or anything. The least they could have done is checked on the wagons, and made a vote. They can't all be scum, but I doubt they're all town, either.
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Post Post #867 (isolation #58) » Sun Nov 12, 2017 3:28 pm

Post by boring »

kelbris too, to a lesser degree, but at least he parked on a major wagon and explained why he'd be gone.
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Post Post #868 (isolation #59) » Sun Nov 12, 2017 3:31 pm

Post by boring »

In post 862, Transcend wrote: Vig the rem slot plz
Seconded.
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Post Post #900 (isolation #60) » Tue Nov 14, 2017 4:25 pm

Post by boring »

In post 897, UC Voyager wrote: so why would town do that?

im asking because there is no reason for townie to do that! I don't get the logic for either alignment!
Being assigned a town role doesn't always lead to civic-mindedness. I'm still in the Transcend-is-town camp.

I don't like that there were no scum wagons yesterday (assuming I'm reading Transcend right). Scum got a free ride yesterday, which points to those just who were just floating along. I could go for either DaesVail or Ectomancer today. Possibly kelbris, Fitz, or rem. I'm feeling a little tinfoil for Fish, but I think my potential scum pool is big enough without him. Voyager's entrance was okay. I felt okay about Sheep too, so I'm putting him in Fish's pond.

Basically, I'm only feeling good about Transcend, Luca, and mutant right now.

VOTE: DaesVail
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Post Post #902 (isolation #61) » Tue Nov 14, 2017 4:29 pm

Post by boring »

...I take that back. I forgot about kelbris having a wagon for a decent amount of time. That might be worth revisiting. It seemed to have some decent composition, too.
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Post Post #903 (isolation #62) » Tue Nov 14, 2017 4:35 pm

Post by boring »

In post 901, UC Voyager wrote: what is the case on daesvail
It hasn't changed much since my first assessment of him. He's playing like either fairly disinterested town, or careful scum. A good scum game is totally neutral, with no posts that give away alignment. Town is clumsy because we're uninformed, so we shit all over the place. I think careful scum is more likely than disinterested town right now.
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Post Post #945 (isolation #63) » Wed Nov 15, 2017 5:31 am

Post by boring »

In post 927, Luca Blight wrote:Fitz, are you really willing to end the day already with a policy lynch?
This.

There's no rational call for a policy lynch on Day 2, unless that player is still actively disrupting town, which he isn't. I'm also stumped as to how a policy lynch can sound like a good idea in the first 24 hours of a new day.

@Fitz - Can you share your thoughts on both DaesVail and kelbris, specifically?
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Post Post #946 (isolation #64) » Wed Nov 15, 2017 5:38 am

Post by boring »

@UC Voyager, who are you townreading/leaning?
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Post Post #949 (isolation #65) » Wed Nov 15, 2017 5:55 am

Post by boring »

In post 947, havingfitz wrote:
In post 945, boring wrote:
In post 927, Luca Blight wrote:Fitz, are you really willing to end the day already with a policy lynch?
This.

There's no rational call for a policy lynch on Day 2, unless that player is still actively disrupting town, which he isn't. I'm also stumped as to how a policy lynch can sound like a good idea in the first 24 hours of a new day.

@Fitz - Can you share your thoughts on both DaesVail and kelbris, specifically?
I've given my thoughts on voting Transcend. Disagree as you wish.

My thoughts atm are still as they were
... so one sentence on kelbris, and nothing at all to explain your DaesVail read.

Is there no reason behind your DaesVail read?
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Post Post #951 (isolation #66) » Wed Nov 15, 2017 6:07 am

Post by boring »

In post 948, mutantdevle wrote: So these are my reasons for voting Transcend:
- His actions that everyone is aware of is legitimately scummy to me.
- There is a low risk to lynching him since he isn't exactly a good townie anyway.
- We could potentially learn what the last PR is if he flips scum.
1) I believe this is a legitimate read on your part so whatever, the day is young.
2) the risk is another dead townie when we could be lynching scum. Going into D3 with 4 dead town and a fully-functioning scum team is kind of a big deal.
3) I don't even understand how that's a) the logical result of a scum!Transcend flip, b) important, or c) good.

who is your second-highest scum read?
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Post Post #956 (isolation #67) » Wed Nov 15, 2017 4:01 pm

Post by boring »

Rem's last post was 7 days ago. Surely, she's somewhere in prod territory by now.
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Post Post #958 (isolation #68) » Wed Nov 15, 2017 4:19 pm

Post by boring »

And Fish calling him DV is fucking me up. I work in a field where I can say "DV" upwards of 20 times a day, as short for "domestic violence". Now, DeasVail is "domestic violence" in my head.

@Ecto, do you have an opinion on DeasVail?
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Post Post #969 (isolation #69) » Thu Nov 16, 2017 11:29 am

Post by boring »

I keep getting stuck on Fitz. The cattiness in his responses feel like irritated scum. Like he's trying to dismiss arguments rather than address them. Though admittedly, I've been on the recipient end of Luca's attention, and I can attest that it is exhausting enough to make anyone feel catty.

More importantly, It still looks like he's put far more effort into defending himself than any other aspect of this game.

Also, I wonder if his Transcend thing could be a chainsaw attempt? That's a stretch, I know, but it keeps popping in my head.
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Post Post #1002 (isolation #70) » Fri Nov 17, 2017 4:30 pm

Post by boring »

@Ecto - I don't understand why you're holding out to be the hammer for Deas. It's an abrupt change from your D1 MO. Why not just vote, and then try to rally more votes?
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Post Post #1044 (isolation #71) » Sat Nov 18, 2017 3:44 pm

Post by boring »

I feel the ProHawk-is-probably-scum sentiment. I'm still feeling a DeasVail vote too, but I'd like to know what people are feeling about Fitz and Ecto.

I'm kinda okay with Ecto's explanation, in theory, but I'd really prefer him to take a more active role in the voting. It seems like the scum-hunting has been thrown out with the bathwater, with this new "objective" D2 strategy.

And I'd like input on my observation that Fitz is only putting in self-defence effort, as opposed to game-solving effort. Isn't that ultimately the behavior we look for in scum? Maybe it's the liberal quantities of vodka surging through my blood-stream, but I believe my Fitz-related observations are pretty fucking sweet, and they've been ignored. I'm like this close from straight up pouting over it.
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Post Post #1046 (isolation #72) » Sat Nov 18, 2017 4:14 pm

Post by boring »

I don't know what to fucking do with Kelbris. He's kind of adorable, so I don't want him to be scum, but he could totally be scum, but if he flipped town, that's like zero information, except maybe for the wagon analysis.
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Post Post #1061 (isolation #73) » Sun Nov 19, 2017 2:46 am

Post by boring »

In post 1060, Luca Blight wrote:
In post 1044, boring wrote: And I'd like input on my observation that Fitz is only putting in self-defence effort, as opposed to game-solving effort. Isn't that ultimately the behavior we look for in scum? Maybe it's the liberal quantities of vodka surging through my blood-stream, but I believe my Fitz-related observations are pretty fucking sweet, and they've been ignored. I'm like this close from straight up pouting over it.
Yes I agree, and I've said the same myself already.

He said in response to me earlier in the game that he doesn't get involved much as he is an 'observational' player, but I don't recall seeing too many observations from him thus far.
Also, I've played town with him before, and while he didn't spam the game, his efforts went into towny pursuits.
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Post Post #1062 (isolation #74) » Sun Nov 19, 2017 2:53 am

Post by boring »

In post 1051, DeasVail wrote:
In post 1046, boring wrote:I don't know what to fucking do with Kelbris. He's kind of adorable, so I don't want him to be scum, but he could totally be scum, but if he flipped town, that's like zero information, except maybe for the wagon analysis.
Why are you using the information gained from a lynch as a factor. Shouldn’t the priority be lynching scum, regardless of the information obtained?
That seems like an odd thing to single out of my run-on sentence, but okay.

I think my thought at the time was that I'd feel bad if I pursued him and he flipped town because I like him in this game, and so he'd be gone, and I see no advantage right now from him being confirmed town post-mortem. And in general, if I have a choose between relatively equal scum-spects, then I lean toward the one whose flip will give me the best chance of figuring out the game, unless one of them was crazy-disruptive. How can information gained
not
be at least a tertiary factor?
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Post Post #1072 (isolation #75) » Sun Nov 19, 2017 1:15 pm

Post by boring »

In post 1069, mutantdevle wrote: Assuming Yuria CCing as the JK was what Transcend wanted from a scum perspective, it would also mean that he would have tried to bait out a CC with his IC and vig claims.

We know that the JK was in the game.
There is almost certainly going to be an IC.
However, we don't know if a vig exists.

If a vig does exist then I would see it as too much of a coincidence that the 3 roles Transcend has claimed to be (no matter how serious) are the 3 roles that are in the game. Now obviously having a vig claim would be a bad idea just to prove that Transcend is scum. But the vig can prove their existence simply by performing a kill. So if the vig does exist, please kill whoever you think is the most scummy tonight (not Transcend obviously, he will be saved for the lynch candidate).

If there are 2 kills tonight then it means that Transcend is scum. If there is still only 1 kill then I'd be willing to accept the idea that his play is too scummy to be scum.

The obvious counter to this plan is that the scum could decide not to kill to make it seem like there is no vig. But this would only delay the plan for a day or 2 because as soon as we find out a vig exists we know it's time to lynch Transcend.
There are only 5 roles to choose from, right? He's mentioned the 1-shot cop, the JK, the IC, and the Vig. The cop wasn't a claim, but it was a pretty solid mention. That's 4/5 mentioned before you posted your strategy.

Also, if we had a vig, we'd have had two kills N1. With the threat of being killed or lynched before being useful to town, who's going to holster N1? Even assuming the vig had no strong scum reads, with the disruption Transcend caused, the wildcard/information of my slot, and the benefit of killing off questionable lurkers like Rem, who would struggle to pick a target?
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Post Post #1073 (isolation #76) » Sun Nov 19, 2017 1:17 pm

Post by boring »

In post 1070, Ectomancer wrote:
In post 1068, mutantdevle wrote:
Yuria

Ectomancer - Probably one of the people I blame most for the loss of IceGuy. That being said, since Ecto was putting pressure on Ice from the RVS period, I don't think they are scum. I'm okay with Ecto's current stance of not placing votes on people they think are scum unless it is a hammer vote; perhaps they are doing this in acknowledgement of their mistake with IceGuy? In post 547 they said the following: "If IceGuy flips scum, boring is town and Yuria is scum." Since we know that both IceGuy and Yuria are town, perhaps their read on boring is also opposite to what they suggested here? In conclusion, I'm leaning town for Ectomancer but I do not trust them.
You've just shaken my confidence. Not enough to slide my needle on Boring, but it was a cold splash of water in the face. There were 3 points to that statement and 2 of them being wrong just made me that much more certain that the 3rd point (Boring is town) was correct.
I've read this like 3 times, and I'm still not sure what you're saying. I know the statement wasn't directed to me, but it seems like you've made a conclusion, and I can't tell what it is.
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Post Post #1074 (isolation #77) » Sun Nov 19, 2017 1:30 pm

Post by boring »

In post 1064, Fishythefish wrote: Why do people think ProHawk is scum? That slot's been a whole lot of nothing AFAIC.
I think the high drop-out rate, especially with this being a relatively hostile game, is a mechanical tell. Also, no one's done anything pro-town with the slot. I don't really even see attempts. It leads me to assume that the scum buddies are just asking them to stall and go down easy, as the slot is close to unsalvageable.

Now, the LUV/Viomi/Rem/ProHawk slot isn't my first choice for lynch today. It's still feasible that it's just a cursed VT slot. More significantly, if we can't find someone more prominently scummy to agree on by the end of the day, we're in trouble anyway.

But still, the fact that no one has gone all opportunistic on the slot, despite Transcend pushing for it, and me and Luca verbally supporting it, makes me think scum are avoiding it for a reason.
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Post Post #1122 (isolation #78) » Mon Nov 20, 2017 3:11 pm

Post by boring »

In post 1086, Fishythefish wrote: I don't think a high drop-out rate is a scumtell; if anything the opposite. Do you really think scum would ever tell a slot like that to stall and go down easy?? They'd be crying out for ProHawk to actually do something; a contentless slot is easily salvageable.
I guess we've had different experiences on scum teams.
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Post Post #1123 (isolation #79) » Mon Nov 20, 2017 3:12 pm

Post by boring »

In post 1087, Luca Blight wrote: This whole '
he can't make it to endgame
' thing just feels like an easy cop-out that scum would use for pressing an easy lynch.
Good point.
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Post Post #1124 (isolation #80) » Mon Nov 20, 2017 3:19 pm

Post by boring »

In post 1093, Luca Blight wrote:
@Boring
@Mutant
@Transcend


How do you feel about switching to UCV?
I'm not thrilled about it. I liked Sheep. I'm "meh" on UCV. He's thrown a bit of effort around today, but I guess anyone can do that. If nothing improves and we don't have a consensus on someone better by EOD, I'll probably go along.

But what about Deas? Has your feeling about him changed?

I'm leaning toward a Deas, ProHawk, Fitz, kelbris scum pool. Though, I haven't read Fitz's most recent wall yet, and I've been hoping for some definitive sign of town from him, so his status might change.
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Post Post #1125 (isolation #81) » Mon Nov 20, 2017 3:31 pm

Post by boring »

@Fitz - do you have easy-access to your meta lying around anywhere, or do I need to sift through your profile? (for example, boring makes it super easy to access through her wiki link because she's awesome).
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Post Post #1127 (isolation #82) » Mon Nov 20, 2017 3:48 pm

Post by boring »

@Deas - just for clarity, who are your solid town reads?
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Post Post #1131 (isolation #83) » Mon Nov 20, 2017 3:55 pm

Post by boring »

Have you already explained your ProHawk read? It's the only really surprising one.
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Post Post #1139 (isolation #84) » Mon Nov 20, 2017 4:02 pm

Post by boring »

In post 1133, DeasVail wrote:Re:ProHawk, it was my controversial town read from Viomi replacing out. How could you forget? :P
I guess I didn't notice at the time. So you took her rage-quit as towny? Has the slot done anything else you find AI?
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Post Post #1143 (isolation #85) » Mon Nov 20, 2017 4:39 pm

Post by boring »

In post 1142, Luca Blight wrote:
In post 1124, boring wrote:
In post 1093, Luca Blight wrote:
@Boring
@Mutant
@Transcend


How do you feel about switching to UCV?
I'm not thrilled about it. I liked Sheep. I'm "meh" on UCV. He's thrown a bit of effort around today, but I guess anyone can do that. If nothing improves and we don't have a consensus on someone better by EOD, I'll probably go along.

But what about Deas? Has your feeling about him changed?

I'm leaning toward a Deas, ProHawk, Fitz, kelbris scum pool. Though, I haven't read Fitz's most recent wall yet, and I've been hoping for some definitive sign of town from him, so his status might change.
I'm surprised you're so reluctant on UCV - from an objective standpoint (I know his style so give him a lot of leeway) the majority of his posts look scummy.

The reason I'm scumreading him is mainly gut feeling as, having played with him as both alignments, I feel strongly this is his scum game. The way he's avoiding conflict (ignoring the wagon on him and points addressed to him) doesn't seem like something he does as Town.

Regarding Sheep - I played a game where he was scum and he was roundly townread throughout the game by playing similarly to how he did here (although he did put more effort in there).

I still think Deas is likely to be scum but I'm feeling more confident on my UCV read right now.
Can you link me the games you're talking about? It might help me understand your POV.
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Post Post #1171 (isolation #86) » Tue Nov 21, 2017 8:56 am

Post by boring »

Okay, I've skimmed UCV's meta first (will do sheep and then Fitz later).

I've noticed a few things. First, UCV over uses punctuation.

Second, this game is more like the one scum game presented (I found only town games beyond that) than the town games, but it has a unique feature as well. UCV try-harded the scum game, and is applying more-than-usual effort here too. Also, the town game posts primarily consisted of 1-2 sentence posts with a fair amount of proactive content. Less than 25% of the posts seemed to be quoting another post in the town games. In the scum game, it was about 50/50 with post quotes. In this game, a majority of UCV's posts include quotes (sometimes quote walls). It indicates a reactionary playstyle, which I typically associate with scum play.

But he's right, one way or another, he's trying something new here. Either a tweak to his scum play or a big change to his town play.

Enough for me to be willing to vote there.... just let me catch up to the newest page first.
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Post Post #1172 (isolation #87) » Tue Nov 21, 2017 9:00 am

Post by boring »

In post 1146, havingfitz wrote:
In post 1125, boring wrote:@Fitz - do you have easy-access to your meta lying around anywhere, or do I need to sift through your profile? (for example, boring makes it super easy to access through her wiki link because she's awesome).
It's called searching my topics. Is there something in particular you're interested in?
Yeah, I want to see what a few of your scum games and town games look like at roughly the same activity level. If you have any you want to link me to, it'll save me some effort. Please and thank you.
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Post Post #1173 (isolation #88) » Tue Nov 21, 2017 9:03 am

Post by boring »

In post 1163, havingfitz wrote:My impression of UCV is they're lynchbait. The lack of responses could be due to being in too many games. Is their response rate to questions AI for them?
That's a decent point. Dude's in a shitton of games right now.
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Post Post #1180 (isolation #89) » Tue Nov 21, 2017 10:47 am

Post by boring »

In post 1168, Transcend wrote:Something is really fishy about hawk's fitz vote
Can you elaborate?
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Post Post #1181 (isolation #90) » Tue Nov 21, 2017 10:48 am

Post by boring »

In post 1174, UC Voyager wrote:what do you mean. i try harder here. I AM NOT! im putting an equal effort.
I'm not trying to be obtuse, but I don't understand what you're asking/saying here.
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Post Post #1183 (isolation #91) » Tue Nov 21, 2017 11:08 am

Post by boring »

meh, this is looking more like a Fitz town game than a scum game. I found two of each (that were fairly recent). He looks townier when he's playing scum, tbh. I'm throwing him back into null for now.


Luca
Mutant
Transcend
------------> line of lynchability (I can't remember who I stole this term from)
Ecto
Fishy
Fitz
------------> preferred lynch pool
Kelbris
UCV
ProHawk
DeasVail

This looks like an easy lynchbait pool, which makes me uncomfortable.
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Post Post #1191 (isolation #92) » Tue Nov 21, 2017 3:32 pm

Post by boring »

I hadn't even taken into account fake reactions v. natural ones.

When people write like this?????? ......I struggle to read them at all! Let alone find them trustworthy!!!!!...... because they're putting TOO MUCH EFFORT into FORCING the reader to absorb their AtE??????

His meta is riddled with that junk. But I think you're right. Scum!UCV seems slightly more off with his reactions than town!UCV.

VOTE: UC Voyager

With the option to return to DeasVail, should that wagon gain momentum again
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Post Post #1208 (isolation #93) » Wed Nov 22, 2017 4:15 am

Post by boring »

I'm sorry everyone, but I'm just crazy tinfoiling Fishy. I've been trying to trust my gut more, and I can't get him out of my head.

VOTE: Fishythefish
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Post Post #1225 (isolation #94) » Wed Nov 22, 2017 3:22 pm

Post by boring »

Dammit Transcend, I was going to make this my signature for a while (assuming you flip town):
In post 663, Transcend wrote:fucking lynch boring some time during this game she is the most blatant scum in my 6 ish years of mafia
And now you come up with another contender:
In post 1211, Transcend wrote:Everything boring does puts a lump in my stomach
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Post Post #1226 (isolation #95) » Wed Nov 22, 2017 3:32 pm

Post by boring »

In post 1221, Fishythefish wrote:
In post 1208, boring wrote:I'm sorry everyone, but I'm just crazy tinfoiling Fishy. I've been trying to trust my gut more, and I can't get him out of my head.

VOTE: Fishythefish
Anything specific that pings your gut? I realise I've been a bit quieter today - that's a time thing (which will definitely improve from the end of next week, and I hope before).
Partly.

I realized that my case on DeasVail could easily be said of you as well. Only you've flown so well under the radar, that this only occurs to me in flashes. (I should mention that I only play one game at a time, and I mull things over in the back of my head a lot). I have no decent reason to town read you. I have no particular reason to scum read you. You've played a safe game. Very safe. You've not taken a single risk, you've not made any waves. I town read you for not voting me when my slot was super vulnerable, but honestly, that was naive. I hadn't taken your style into account. If you're playing this as a scum game, I don't think you'd take the risk of jumping on a lynchbait wagon except "reluctantly", so as to avoid culpability.

@Luca, I'm trying to refrain from looking for a case right now because that's exactly what it would be. I can't pretend I'd be anything but conf. biased when looking to back up a gut read. I want to wait a little bit. I have a hard time holding onto "feelings", so I figure if I give it a little while before I go "looking", my bias will fade. But this read has been eating at me, and I didn't want to wait too long to act on it.
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Post Post #1228 (isolation #96) » Wed Nov 22, 2017 3:47 pm

Post by boring »

I dunno.

I don't think I did the wrong thing. I want to keep my vote here for a while. If this is still a vanity vote in a few calendar days, I'll move it back to a wagon. In the meantime, I might make a case.

Do you have any particular reason for townreading Fish?
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Post Post #1354 (isolation #97) » Sun Nov 26, 2017 12:09 pm

Post by boring »

There's no way Transcend's town. And all this cop-talk just looks like him trying to tease out another naive PR.

That lolhammer was beyond anti-town. Added with all the other toxic, ridiculous play this game, he really must be just a cheap-shot scum player.

Luca successfully rallied the town to vote UCV, and he was clearly going after Transcend next, with no one else clearly in his crosshairs. If Transcend was town, there's no reason to kill Luca. Better mutant, or someone else widely townread. Luca would have guaranteed a Trasncend lynch today.

VOTE: Transcend

I think this is vote #4, so

L-1
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Post Post #1357 (isolation #98) » Sun Nov 26, 2017 12:56 pm

Post by boring »

In post 1356, mutantdevle wrote:@boring by the last part of your statement do you mean you think we should explore the idea of lynching someone who is widely considered town (eg. myself) tomorrow?

If so then I see where you’re coming from. It does become suspicious when a strong townie lives for too long. I figured that either myself or Luca would be shot last night and I honestly don’t expect to live to see tomorrow. That’s why I’d like to make it clear that if Transcend flips scum I’d be going after kelbris but if he flips town then I’d be going for boring.
That's a good idea, to be clear of our "tomorrow intents". But I didn't mean tomorrow's lynch should be a widely town-read player. I'm a little confused where you got that from.

I meant scum would have shot someone like you last night, if Transcend was town, as Luca looked to be going after Transcend today. Luca wasn't threatening anyone else. It makes the most sense that scum!Transcend would kill him, counting on the too-scummy-to-be-scum defence to carry him through it.
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Post Post #1361 (isolation #99) » Sun Nov 26, 2017 2:38 pm

Post by boring »

In post 1359, Transcend wrote: >Drops the hammer on mafia and disallows him from drawing out prs
Either this is a scumslip, or you're just trolling at this point.

If you're town, you'd have had no way to know that UCV was scum. In fact, your last post before hammering him was this:
In post 1194, Transcend wrote:Man i hate this uc lynch
You clearly expressed that you think he's town, then you posted this?
In post 1241, Transcend wrote:VOTE: voy

Fuck it

Flip this and night kills

I think it greens but his posting is bad and this is inevitable anyways
How is your lolhammer in any way, shape, or fashion interpretable as "drops the hammer on mafia and disallows him from drawing out prs" if you're pretending to be town?

I think you hammered to just end the day. Though, if we consider the way UCV rolled over, I wouldn't be surprised if you two had a tiff in the scum PT.
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Post Post #1362 (isolation #100) » Sun Nov 26, 2017 2:42 pm

Post by boring »

Seriously, Kelbris? Everyone hasn't even checked in yet.

Scum!Transcend -- I'm looking at Kelbris and Ecto tomorrow
Town!Transcend -- Kelbris, and then everyone else.
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Post Post #1396 (isolation #101) » Wed Nov 29, 2017 2:47 pm

Post by boring »

I'm interested in exploring the Ectomancer NK. I don't think he was clear of anyone's scum pool. So either they thought he was a PR, or he was a threat, right?

Also, we're at a point where some confirmed town would be really useful. If two PRs are left, we have at least two confirmed town (more, if there's a cop?). If we mislynch today, we're in lylo tomorrow, and I don't have a lot of faith in our/your [if I'm dead] collective scumhunting abilities. I realize that if we out both PR's, one is a guaranteed target tonight. The other tomorrow night. But if we can use the information productively, we may not even need to have a tomorrow night, so there's that.

I'm thinking an organized claim, starting with the most likely scum player claiming first, on through the least scummy.

I'd like specific claims for this reason: if we do "PR", "VT", it makes gambitting easier with a vague PR, That leaves them gladiating, and we're using our aforementioned less-than-great collective scum hunting skills, and we increase the risk of lynching a non-charismatic PR.

I propose the list order be something like: Kelbris, me, prohawk, deas, fitz, fishy, mutant. That seems to be the collective ranking of trust right now.
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Post Post #1397 (isolation #102) » Wed Nov 29, 2017 2:52 pm

Post by boring »

Fitz and Deas were more targeted than the other players by Ectomancer yesterday. Luca, obviously, was a threat to both as well.

Also, Deas was the only player to support my rationale on Trasncend directly, and now he's voting me right out the gate. Isn't that a little weird?
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Post Post #1398 (isolation #103) » Wed Nov 29, 2017 2:55 pm

Post by boring »

Sorry. I need to stop glossing over mutant's walls. I think he basically said ^^^^ post, but with a lot more words.

@mutant - I'm leaning more Deas, what do you think?
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Post Post #1403 (isolation #104) » Wed Nov 29, 2017 3:16 pm

Post by boring »

In post 1401, havingfitz wrote:
In post 1397, boring wrote:my rationale on Trasncend directly
What was this again?
In post 1358, DeasVail wrote:
In post 1357, boring wrote:
In post 1356, mutantdevle wrote:@boring by the last part of your statement do you mean you think we should explore the idea of lynching someone who is widely considered town (eg. myself) tomorrow?

If so then I see where you’re coming from. It does become suspicious when a strong townie lives for too long. I figured that either myself or Luca would be shot last night and I honestly don’t expect to live to see tomorrow. That’s why I’d like to make it clear that if Transcend flips scum I’d be going after kelbris but if he flips town then I’d be going for boring.
That's a good idea, to be clear of our "tomorrow intents". But I didn't mean tomorrow's lynch should be a widely town-read player. I'm a little confused where you got that from.

I meant scum would have shot someone like you last night, if Transcend was town, as Luca looked to be going after Transcend today. Luca wasn't threatening anyone else. It makes the most sense that scum!Transcend would kill him, counting on the too-scummy-to-be-scum defence to carry him through it.
This was a thought I had as well.

Back when I played more, it was so often that I would see a town player killed after they had locked into scum. But then at least half the time I would see the scum survive because “scum wouldn’t be that obvious”.
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Post Post #1404 (isolation #105) » Wed Nov 29, 2017 3:20 pm

Post by boring »

In post 1402, havingfitz wrote:
In post 1396, boring wrote:Also, we're at a point where some confirmed town would be really useful. If two PRs are left, we have at least two confirmed town (more, if there's a cop?). If we mislynch today, we're in lylo tomorrow, and I don't have a lot of faith in our/your [if I'm dead] collective scumhunting abilities. I realize that if we out both PR's, one is a guaranteed target tonight. The other tomorrow night. But if we can use the information productively, we may not even need to have a tomorrow night, so there's that.

I'm thinking an organized claim, starting with the most likely scum player claiming first, on through the least scummy.

I'd like specific claims for this reason: if we do "PR", "VT", it makes gambitting easier with a vague PR, That leaves them gladiating, and we're using our aforementioned less-than-great collective scum hunting skills, and we increase the risk of lynching a non-charismatic PR.
I was kind of waiting to see if someone would suggest this. I was thinking the same thing. Dropping the suspect pool down to 5 players and claiming before LYLO...while we still have time to absorb a mislynch if we get a fakeclaim wrong...would be ideal IMO.
Exactly. I usually only get resistance from scum wanting to raise fake town pitchforks and say I'm rolefishing, but this is our best strategy at this point, and it's best to start in the first 24 hours so we have time to process all the information we get from the claims before there's pressure to really pick our day's lynch.
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Post Post #1405 (isolation #106) » Wed Nov 29, 2017 3:31 pm

Post by boring »

In post 1376, DeasVail wrote:
Spoiler:
But right now I reckon boring is the best bet for scum:
In post 1354, boring wrote:There's no way Transcend's town. And all this cop-talk just looks like him trying to tease out another naive PR.

That lolhammer was beyond anti-town. Added with all the other toxic, ridiculous play this game, he really must be just a cheap-shot scum player.

Luca successfully rallied the town to vote UCV, and he was clearly going after Transcend next, with no one else clearly in his crosshairs. If Transcend was town, there's no reason to kill Luca. Better mutant, or someone else widely townread. Luca would have guaranteed a Trasncend lynch today.

VOTE: Transcend

I think this is vote #4, so

L-1
In post 1362, boring wrote:Seriously, Kelbris? Everyone hasn't even checked in yet.

Scum!Transcend -- I'm looking at Kelbris and Ecto tomorrow
Town!Transcend -- Kelbris, and then everyone else.
If you're convinced that Transcend is scum here, as your previous post suggested, why this reaction to a hammer?
Dude, really? You should know better. Kelbris hammered when we were less than 24 hours into the day. That's not good.

Now, I don't know about you, but I don't have a list of who was assigned which alignments. I can very strongly suspect someone is scum, but I'm not delusional enough to think there's no chance I'm wrong. What if someone really did have an innocent on him? What if someone had other information about the night events? Maybe a tracker saw someone move for the NK? We didn't fucking know. Kelbris marches to the beat of his own drum, and I get that, but that rapid hammer was incredibly suspect.
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Post Post #1406 (isolation #107) » Wed Nov 29, 2017 3:37 pm

Post by boring »

In post 1404, boring wrote:I usually only get resistance from scum wanting to raise fake town pitchforks and say I'm rolefishing, but this is our best strategy at this point, and it's best to start in the first 24 hours so we have time to process all the information we get from the claims before there's pressure to really pick our day's lynch.
I'd like to nominate myself for best run-on sentence ever. I'll get started on my acceptance speech.
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Post Post #1444 (isolation #108) » Thu Nov 30, 2017 3:27 pm

Post by boring »

um... wat?

I'm not a PR. I'm VT.
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Post Post #1445 (isolation #109) » Thu Nov 30, 2017 3:47 pm

Post by boring »

In post 1441, mutantdevle wrote:Tbh whoever isn't the IC has the upper hand of knowing for certain which of the results are true already. So based on that, I'm going to focus on and follow what both of you say by assuming you are both not the IC. Therefore I will treat both of you as coming from the point with the most knowledge. So basically, I am essentially yours to command together.
I'd like to spend a few moments basking in the glow of my fleeting conf. towniness.

*basking* ..... *basking* ..... *basking*



But seriously. Unless Fitz is a double PR, someone held back. Or two someones, and Fitz is talking out his ass. I think the one-someone held back scenario is most likely.
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Post Post #1446 (isolation #110) » Thu Nov 30, 2017 3:56 pm

Post by boring »

Also, Fitz, those were just examples, right? because if they're supposed to be actual results, they conveniently only reveal the alignments of already revealed players...
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Post Post #1448 (isolation #111) » Thu Nov 30, 2017 4:58 pm

Post by boring »

In post 1447, havingfitz wrote:
In post 1446, boring wrote:Also, Fitz, those were just examples, right? because if they're supposed to be actual results, they conveniently only reveal the alignments of already revealed players...
Whoever the other townie is needs to claim like I did so scum can pick between us tonight.

One of my claims is not an example.
If you're IC, you might as well get yourself confirmed.

I'd like to agree that another conf. town is ideal.

As it is, our pool is only narrowed by 1.

I'm still tinfoiling Fish a bit, but I think Deas/Kelbris is a better pool for today. Unless someone megascums between now and then.
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Post Post #1469 (isolation #112) » Fri Dec 01, 2017 3:15 pm

Post by boring »

I'm still on Deas and Kelbris. as my first two choices. Fish after that. TBH, Prohawk just isn't pinging me. I think part of it is just a knee-jerk reaction to Transcend. I know he was beyond irritating with my slot and I know I'm town, so I want to assume he was dead wrong about Prohawk. But mostly, it's the lack of ping.

Also, mutant, if you do have an innocent on Prohawk, we need to know.

For me and the other townie(s) remaining in the pool, that takes our odds of choosing scum from 2/4 to 2/3. That's as close to a solved game as we could ever hope for, and it gives us 3 conf. town.
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Post Post #1470 (isolation #113) » Fri Dec 01, 2017 3:25 pm

Post by boring »

In post 1416, DeasVail wrote:
In post 1405, boring wrote:
In post 1376, DeasVail wrote:
Spoiler:
But right now I reckon boring is the best bet for scum:
In post 1354, boring wrote:There's no way Transcend's town. And all this cop-talk just looks like him trying to tease out another naive PR.

That lolhammer was beyond anti-town. Added with all the other toxic, ridiculous play this game, he really must be just a cheap-shot scum player.

Luca successfully rallied the town to vote UCV, and he was clearly going after Transcend next, with no one else clearly in his crosshairs. If Transcend was town, there's no reason to kill Luca. Better mutant, or someone else widely townread. Luca would have guaranteed a Trasncend lynch today.

VOTE: Transcend

I think this is vote #4, so

L-1
In post 1362, boring wrote:Seriously, Kelbris? Everyone hasn't even checked in yet.

Scum!Transcend -- I'm looking at Kelbris and Ecto tomorrow
Town!Transcend -- Kelbris, and then everyone else.
If you're convinced that Transcend is scum here, as your previous post suggested, why this reaction to a hammer?
Dude, really? You should know better. Kelbris hammered when we were less than 24 hours into the day. That's not good.

Now, I don't know about you, but I don't have a list of who was assigned which alignments. I can very strongly suspect someone is scum, but I'm not delusional enough to think there's no chance I'm wrong. What if someone really did have an innocent on him? What if someone had other information about the night events? Maybe a tracker saw someone move for the NK? We didn't fucking know. Kelbris marches to the beat of his own drum, and I get that, but that rapid hammer was incredibly suspect.
Um, you literally said “there’s no way Transcend is town”. Did you mean that or did you not mean that?

I agree with you that the hammer was not a good move, but I think that reaction comes from someone who knows Transcemd is town, not someone who believes Transcend is scum.
Btw, I forgot to respond to this yesterday. But there's not much to say. I think he's being intentionally dense. As if he lives in a universe without hyperbole. More like he's trying to put a vote somewhere and hopes it won't make too many waves (I've been a safe vote for scum this whole game).

Still, I'd prefer DeasVail, but I'll totally do Kelbris too. I think they are the most likely scum team. ... I guess we have time to dive in and look a little closer at vote patterns, UCV interactions, and their relationship with each other in the next 11 days.
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Post Post #1471 (isolation #114) » Fri Dec 01, 2017 3:30 pm

Post by boring »

In post 1468, mutantdevle wrote:It’s annoying that people are going VLA without at least dropping a small read to spark some discussion whilst they are away :/
Meh, it's Deas and Kelbris doing it, right? I guess Fish too, but at least he's chiming in a little more productively, if laconic.

"Lay low til LYLO" is a tried-and-true scum strategy.
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Post Post #1480 (isolation #115) » Sat Dec 02, 2017 9:37 am

Post by boring »

So it looks like we all seem to agree on DeasVail and Kelbris.

Either we've got this in the bag, or we're just fish in a barrel at this point.

I was reviewing UCV's exit recently. If I'm being completely honest with myself, I really wanted good reason to scumread Transcend. He gave us lots of good reasons, and the UCV hammer with the Luca NK was the final straw for me. But looking at UCV's exit, he did a reasonable job of confusing associations. He even bragged about it a bit, right? He slightly defended Transcend, stayed quiet while we started to associate them together, and then ended with "the scum team will win" (or something like that). In retrospect, that was a pretty transparent "you have no idea who my buddies are". I think I would have caught that sooner if I wasn't seeing red.
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Post Post #1483 (isolation #116) » Sun Dec 03, 2017 10:55 am

Post by boring »

... this has been an exciting 24 hours in the Open 669 thread.

Okay, so I'm going to get the ball rolling again, I guess.

VOTE: DeasVail
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Post Post #1491 (isolation #117) » Sun Dec 03, 2017 1:25 pm

Post by boring »

In post 1489, ProHawk wrote:I would like to know why she didn't follow through with her suspects after the Transcend flip?
Kelbris is probably scum, by POE and generally shifty behavior, so I'm willing to vote him today, if he's everyone preference. But there's still some chance that Kelbris is just weird (i.e., completely unaware of mafia game etiquette).

I have no such reservations about DeasVail, and because no one's voting right now, I get to make the wagon. His little wall there looks exactly like the convince-the-conf-town-to-vote-wrong effort that scum usually put in as their last hoorah at lylo. It's not lylo, I realize, but he's coming to his end, and I think he knows it.

p-edit: The timing on your walls made me chortle. You were supposed to wait a little longer after Deas's post, Kelbris, it would have looked more natural. Either way, a valiant team effort.
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Post Post #1492 (isolation #118) » Sun Dec 03, 2017 1:34 pm

Post by boring »

In post 1485, DeasVail wrote:. But instead she's throwing subtle shade at the fact that it was "weird" for me to vote for her after agreeing with one of her posts about Transcend the previous day.
Not only do I find myself drawn to hyperbole, I occasionally understate. I meant to throw a whole heap of shade at your voting patterns. No subtlety was intended.
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Post Post #1516 (isolation #119) » Mon Dec 04, 2017 4:10 pm

Post by boring »

Compare Deas's posts today with these games where he was town
viewtopic.php?t=72397&f=53&st=0&sk=t&sd ... er_sort=Go
viewtopic.php?t=63443&f=53&st=0&sk=t&sd ... er_sort=Go
He's easy, breezy, beautiful DeasVail.

Deas's Scum game: this is the Deas we're seeing.
viewtopic.php?t=62742&f=53&st=0&sk=t&sd ... er_sort=Go
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Post Post #1517 (isolation #120) » Mon Dec 04, 2017 4:24 pm

Post by boring »

In post 1507, ProHawk wrote: All in all a pretty tough situation to be in as scum, so I would have had the least town-read of the two jump into the PR pool and the most town-read to jump into the VT pool and just wait until it got down to 3p LYLO, but maybe that's just me?
I was thinking that at first, but we stand to lose too much now from a real PR's continued secrecy. I'm sure everyone here realizes that. Mutant's little gambit was one thing. Letting us be dead-wrong all day (and possibly all the way to a town loss) is another.

Also, the only player left that I would think capable of being so bold as to fake claim in a massclaim is Fitz. But his enthusiasm would have been hard to fake. He was so excited to tell us he was PR and do the three option thingy.
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Post Post #1518 (isolation #121) » Mon Dec 04, 2017 4:51 pm

Post by boring »

In post 1509, DeasVail wrote: I am not going to be giving up on this easily, but I am aware that I'm not getting much traction here.
In post 1511, DeasVail wrote: If I absolutely need to, then I will work out who else I would be willing to lynch, but I'm not going to give up on this easily.
You're not going to "give up on this" until you have no choice but to vote Kelbris. Prohawk is off the table until we know which of mutant's results are true, and you've no chance against Fishy right now in public opinion.

Your best strategy would have been to come in today with a hard bus on Kelbris. Instead, you're stuck pretending to scum read me.
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Post Post #1529 (isolation #122) » Tue Dec 05, 2017 3:03 pm

Post by boring »

@Kelbris, I'd like your take on the meta I presented in post #1516. Have you had time to glance at it?
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Post Post #1530 (isolation #123) » Tue Dec 05, 2017 3:04 pm

Post by boring »

In post 1522, havingfitz wrote:
In post 1517, boring wrote:But his enthusiasm would have been hard to fake.
Any perceived enthusiasm was unintentional.
That's why it was kind of adorable.
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Post Post #1531 (isolation #124) » Tue Dec 05, 2017 3:05 pm

Post by boring »

In post 1527, ProHawk wrote:I would just vote you and get the day to end but I'm not really feeling it that much. Did you ever reply to borings post?
Any reason in particular you're not feeling Deas? Who's your favorite for scum after Kelbris?
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Post Post #1532 (isolation #125) » Tue Dec 05, 2017 3:22 pm

Post by boring »

In post 1144, kelbris wrote:I plan on reading Deas's and UCV's ISOs tonight, gotta take care of some stuff rn. Still waiting for an answer from Transcend (unless one was given and I missed it).
In post 1224, kelbris wrote:prodge, will read through ISOs and post reads on UCV and Deas ASAP.
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Post Post #1558 (isolation #126) » Wed Dec 06, 2017 2:37 pm

Post by boring »

Okay fellas, if I were Dead and Kelbris, I wouldn't enjoy town dragging this out.

Is there anything else for us to discuss today? Anyone have questions for the PRs?

I think we have this game wrapped up, but in case we don't, I'd appreciate both Fitz and Mutant leaving their last impressions for the day before the hammer.
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Post Post #1559 (isolation #127) » Wed Dec 06, 2017 2:37 pm

Post by boring »

Sorry. Phone auto corrected me.

*If I were Deas and Kelbris
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Post Post #1563 (isolation #128) » Thu Dec 07, 2017 12:39 am

Post by boring »

They're both obv. scum. I'd rather do Deas first, for a few reasons. But if the confirmed towns want to do Kelbris first, it's no big deal.

Reasons:
1. He's the obv. scum with more experience at this game, going by join date. That means he's more likely to competently make it through to endgame.

2. That meta difference is pretty convincing. It's not like I cherry picked that shit. These were literally the first two completed town games I found, and the first scum game I found. I was just looking to see if he used a lot of lie-tells in his language as town too, and I only stumbled across the stark difference in play styles by accident. It's as close to evidence as I've ever seen a meta dive produce.

3. I think we're all aware that we've had some really, really bad townies in this game. Kelbris is slightly more likely to be bad town than Deas. If they're both that awful, then we never stood a chance in the first place.
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Post Post #1576 (isolation #129) » Thu Dec 07, 2017 11:05 am

Post by boring »

In post 1564, mutantdevle wrote: It's interesting how practically all of you have pretty much excluded ProHawk from the lynch pool on the assumption I have a town result on him. But you forget there is only a 1 in 3 chance that is true. Like I've said, this gives me the impression y'all are sucking up to us PR's. By not considering ProHawk, it gives the impression that y'all are scum playing it safe; which is the playstyle we can assume they are playing. Obviously, you can't all be scum for doing that so I'm interested to know what is everyone's reads on ProHawk?.
Dude, play the tape all the way through: either Prohawk is conf. town, or pursuing him would force you to reveal your role to save him from lynch. You chose to steer the day in this direction. Your one and only value as living, confirmed town is in that we can trust that you want town to win. Your actions took Prohawk off the table. You did that. If you want Prohawk back in the lynch pool today, you're the only one who can undo that.

So quit fucking with us, and decide whether you want to stand behind your effective quarantine of Prohawk.
In post 1573, DeasVail wrote: How am I such a bad townie?
I never said you were a townie, bad or otherwise. I think that if anyone is bad town, it's Kelbris, but that's unlikely as well. I think you're on the scum team. You've been fumbling hard, in a very obviously scummy way. Your opportunistic vote hops, your tendency mimic to other people's opinions, your limp attempts at pity-based AtE, and your extremely selective reactions/responses all point to scum. So much so that if you really
were
town playing like this, I'd be tempted to throw a rotten tomato at the ground postgame, and hope you felt it in 'Straya.

But back to the main point: I think DeasVail is going to flip "mafia goon".
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Post Post #1583 (isolation #130) » Fri Dec 08, 2017 3:54 am

Post by boring »

In post 1582, DeasVail wrote:Also boring I realise things have gotten a bit heated/sassy/snarky between us, but I just wanted to say that I've enjoyed playing with you regardless of how things end up here.
I feel the same.

It's not your fault you were assigned to the scum team! :D
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Post Post #1594 (isolation #131) » Sat Dec 09, 2017 7:31 am

Post by boring »

In post 1585, mutantdevle wrote:I want a full list of who thinks what.
I can do that.

DeasVail
- Scum read. I think I've gone over reasons enough
Kelbris
- Scum read, but slightly less so. He's definitely scummy, but there's something telling me to do him second.
Prohawk
- This is what's telling me to do him second. If Prohawk isn't conf. town, and Deas flips scum, I'm going to have a really hard time deciding between him and Kelbris as the remainder. There's something about the way he's low-key defending Deas that I find really pingy. This has been a recent feeling. I was super ready to accept him as cleared townie too, and now I'm just not sure.
Fishy
- I've tinfoiled this dude a lot this game, but him being my #4 out of 4 when it comes to most scummy players, POE puts him in the town pile.

my take on ossible combos:
Deas + Kelbris
= My brain tells me this is the most likely, straightforward conclusion.
Deas + Prohawk
= This actually makes some sense too.
Deas + Fishy
= It's possible, I guess. But frankly, I don't think I'd catch them. Let's call this combo "scum win"
Fishy + Kelbris
= Up would have to be down, and Deas would have to be town, but this is technically possible.
Fishy + Prohawk
= Don't tell my heart, my achey breaky heart. I just don't think it'd understand.
Kelbris + Prohawk
= Kelbris, you're a nice guy, but I don't believe you subtle enough to fake this dynamic, and Prohawk's slot has had too much turnover. Just no.

How I'll proceed tomorrow is nearly locked in
Deas red + Prohawk conf. town = voting Kelbris
Deas red + Prohawk not conf. town = I'll have to choose between Kelbris and Prohawk.
Deas green + Prohawk conf. town = scum team is Fishy and Kelbris by POE. Will vote either.
Deas green + Prohawk not conf. town = voting Fishy
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Post Post #1599 (isolation #132) » Sun Dec 10, 2017 2:15 am

Post by boring »

In post 1597, ProHawk wrote:
In post 1594, boring wrote:Deas red + Prohawk conf. town = voting Kelbris
Deas red + Prohawk not conf. town = I'll have to choose between Kelbris and Prohawk.
Deas green + Prohawk conf. town = scum team is Fishy and Kelbris by POE. Will vote either.
Deas green + Prohawk not conf. town = voting Fishy
Wait... this doesn't even make sense with what you said earlier? :neutral:
You're going to have to be more specific if you're seeking clarification.
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Post Post #1609 (isolation #133) » Sun Dec 10, 2017 4:55 pm

Post by boring »

In post 1601, mutantdevle wrote: @Boring, do you have a scum read or a null read on Hawk?
I think I already explained this. Right now, Hawk and Kelbris are sharing a scum read. Kelbris is the obvious choice for partner with DeasVail, but Prohawk's play today gives me serious pause.

I mean, if Deas an Kelbris are equally scummy, the obvious lynch is the more experienced/polished player (Deas). The thing is that Prohawk has been ignoring how clearly not-town Deas is, but not in an obtuse way. It's been more avoidant than anything. The way he's pursued Kelbris and sidestepped Deas, has been so odd that it's made me question my read on Kelbris.

In the event of Deas red + Hawk not conf. town tomorrow, Hawk and Kelbris are my scum pool.
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Post Post #1618 (isolation #134) » Mon Dec 11, 2017 7:52 am

Post by boring »

In post 1615, ProHawk wrote:
In post 1594, boring wrote:Deas red + Prohawk not conf. town = I'll have to choose between Kelbris and Prohawk.
Deas green + Prohawk conf. town = scum team is Fishy and Kelbris by POE. Will vote either.
Deas green + Prohawk not conf. town = voting Fishy
Like how does this even make sense?

If Deas is town and I am not confirmed, you would vote Fish? But if Deas is scum and I am not confirmed town, you would have to choose between Myself and Kelbris?????

Why not choose between Kelbris and Fish, or Myself and Fish if Deas is town?
I already explained that. I don't think you and kelbris are the scum team. One of you, probably, but not both.
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Post Post #1623 (isolation #135) » Mon Dec 11, 2017 1:56 pm

Post by boring »

In post 1621, Fishythefish wrote:@boring: what makes you think ProHawk/kelbris is impossible?

All this talk of pairs is making me worried about DV flipping town.
In post 1594, boring wrote:
Kelbris + Prohawk
= Kelbris, you're a nice guy, but I don't believe you subtle enough to fake this dynamic, and Prohawk's slot has had too much turnover. Just no.
Also, Prohawk would lose nothing from pushing Deas or me today instead, if Kelbris was his partner.
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Post Post #1624 (isolation #136) » Mon Dec 11, 2017 2:02 pm

Post by boring »

@mutant - I'd prefer:
Deas - Scum
Kelbris - Scum/Null
Hawk - Scum/Null
Fishy - Town
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Post Post #1627 (isolation #137) » Mon Dec 11, 2017 3:47 pm

Post by boring »

In post 1626, mutantdevle wrote:
In post 1624, boring wrote:@mutant - I'd prefer:
Deas - Scum
Kelbris - Scum/Null
Hawk - Scum/Null
Fishy - Town
If I was to put a gun to your head in the vigilante kind of way what would you choose for each?
If you put a gun to my head, you'd be wasting your time. I've outlined my thought process on each pretty clearly, and why I'm unsure. If you favor brevity over accuracy, I can flip a coin.
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Post Post #1648 (isolation #138) » Thu Dec 14, 2017 4:13 pm

Post by boring »

@mutant - I thought you were 1-shot Cop at first because it would be harmful to extract someone from the scum pool for no reason. But as the day went on, I realized that you either didn't think it through, or didn't care. By EOD, I was pretty sure you must be the Watcher. I thought Fitz was IC. I figured it made the most sense with his conflict with Transcend. I thought his parting comment was more of an instruction to you while trying to make himself seem like a more attractive target.

I'm leaning toward prohawk right now because a) he low-key bucked against Deas's lynch all day, and b) because Fitz seemed to think he was scum whereas mutant seemed to be leaning Kelbris. Scum really don't have room for subtle kills at this point in the game. Fitz was more of a threat to Prohawk and Mutant is more of a threat to Kelbris.

p-edit: that ninja from Kelbris actually makes me slightly less confident in my theory.
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Post Post #1649 (isolation #139) » Thu Dec 14, 2017 4:21 pm

Post by boring »

In post 1645, Fishythefish wrote:
mutant: I thought fitz was a tracker or cop (because he thought up the whole hypoclaims thing), and you were cop or IC (
because you seemed to think the third role was watcher!
)
What do you mean by this?
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Post Post #1656 (isolation #140) » Fri Dec 15, 2017 1:21 am

Post by boring »

In post 1654, Fishythefish wrote:
In post 1649, boring wrote:
In post 1645, Fishythefish wrote:
mutant: I thought fitz was a tracker or cop (because he thought up the whole hypoclaims thing), and you were cop or IC (
because you seemed to think the third role was watcher!
)
What do you mean by this?
In mutant's hypoclaim post, he said "watcher" instead of "tracker". I thought he'd probably be less likely to mess up his own role's name. Though I didn't think all that hard about the possible reasons - obviously, asking for clarification would have been a bad idea :D
I mean, why couldn't he just be a watcher? Why would that have yo be a mistake?
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Post Post #1665 (isolation #141) » Fri Dec 15, 2017 4:43 pm

Post by boring »

I'm really, really torn between Kelbris and Prohawk. I feel like I flip flop a lot.

I know that a ISO dive will come up with all kinds of untownly, inopportune, and flat-out baffling posts and actions on Kelbris's part. He's the most straightforward choice. If I were scum, I know I could nail his ass to the wall today.

But I think it's Prohawk. I've developed a personal list of scum tells, and he's dropped a few of them

a) When we're down to the last couple days, scum get impatient, and they usually vote first. They want to get the ball rolling, you know? Town tend to wait. This isn't universal -- you have to take personality into account here. But Prohawk doesn't give the impression of being very aggressive or impulsive by nature.

b) When yesterday was winding down, and it was clear that we were going to lynch Deas, he started saying things along the lines of "I don't get why we're not lynching the obviously scummy person" (i.e. Kelbris). I've noticed this kind of thing more frequently with scum. In my head, it's called a "little scummy tantrum". It happens when they're trying to steer town in a slam-dunk misdirection, and town chooses a less obvious path. All they can do is scream, mildly, passive-aggressively, into the void. Town who thinks shit's going wrong usually handle things differently. They are more likely to pull aside people who disagree, and ask them to explain their position; try to better explain their position/get aggressive about pushing their agenda; and/or they just kind of give in.

c) Fitz was definitely the better choice for Prohawk to kill, and mutant was definitely the better choice for Kelbris to kill. As I said before, NKs become increasingly straightforward as the game progresses. Like, I get that my NK theories have kind of sucked this game, but I refuse to learn my lesson.

d) there are more, but I'm sleepy.
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Post Post #1666 (isolation #142) » Fri Dec 15, 2017 4:59 pm

Post by boring »

Also, you guys seem to think Kelbris's obliviousness is scummy, but it pops up in NAI ways too. Like, he keeps calling me "he". My avatar is a chick, I write like a chick, and it says "she" under my thingy. If you can link this trait to a scum slip or whatever, I'm with you, but I'm pretty sure he was like this before reading his role assignment.
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Post Post #1677 (isolation #143) » Sat Dec 16, 2017 10:49 am

Post by boring »

Okay, so I did the meta dive. There's far less contrast in your meta than I saw in Deas's and even UCV's. Maybe a better meta reader than me can tell the difference, but all I can see is that as town, he's a little more carefee when he votes, but slightly less frequent with them. It is subtle enough that it could be attributed to small sample size.

I sampled these games, btw.

Town:
viewtopic.php?t=73460&f=83&st=0&sk=t&sd ... er_sort=Go
viewtopic.php?t=65194&f=84&st=0&sk=t&sd ... er_sort=Go
viewtopic.php?t=64339&f=84&st=0&sk=t&sd ... er_sort=Go

Scum:
viewtopic.php?t=69221&f=84&st=0&sk=t&sd ... er_sort=Go
viewtopic.php?t=65875&f=54&st=0&sk=t&sd ... er_sort=Go
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Post Post #1678 (isolation #144) » Sat Dec 16, 2017 10:51 am

Post by boring »

Regardless, there are enough of you wanting to vote Kelbris to lynch him. I'm not convinced he's town by any stretch of the imagination, but I'd like to use our time today to really make the right choice. I don't like leaving the fate of the game up to LYLO.
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Post Post #1679 (isolation #145) » Sat Dec 16, 2017 10:55 am

Post by boring »

In post 1675, ProHawk wrote:Boring, go look at Kelb r is' posts and show me town motivation in ANY of them.
If we're being sugar cereal right now, I've been struggling to find town motivation in half the player list this game. I've given up that angle for the time-being.
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Post Post #1685 (isolation #146) » Sat Dec 16, 2017 2:56 pm

Post by boring »

In post 1680, mutantdevle wrote:Similarly @boring, you seem most confident that ProHawk is scum, so would you say that kelbris is town based on that?
Nope. I'm not as confident as you seem to think, either. Frankly, if everyone seemed set on Prohawk, I'd probably be pushing on Kelbris right now. I see an argument for each of them to be scum, and I want some dialogue. I've gotten a bit of a response, but I'm waiting for more discussion.
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Post Post #1690 (isolation #147) » Sun Dec 17, 2017 5:41 am

Post by boring »

In post 1689, mutantdevle wrote: So how’s this for a plan/compromise: today we lynch kelbris and then we lynch ProHawk tomorrow if there is one?
Ask me again in about a week.

I think all three of us need to take the time to really try and sort them.
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Post Post #1694 (isolation #148) » Sun Dec 17, 2017 9:10 am

Post by boring »

In post 1692, ProHawk wrote:What happened to your suspicion of fish Boring?
In post 1594, boring wrote:
Fishy
- I've tinfoiled this dude a lot this game, but him being my #4 out of 4 when it comes to most scummy players, POE puts him in the town pile.
Now, it's #3 of 3, but nothing has changed otherwise.
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Post Post #1697 (isolation #149) » Sun Dec 17, 2017 2:42 pm

Post by boring »

I might have picked up that term on Mafia Universe rather than here. I try to keep to site slang when possible. Tinfoil/tinfoiling means being paranoid, and/or having a unfounded, but personally compelling theory. It's some kind of homage to crazy people who wear tinfoil to stop aliens, government, lizard people, etc. from controlling them.
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Post Post #1698 (isolation #150) » Sun Dec 17, 2017 2:50 pm

Post by boring »

Oh, and if anyone needs to do a meta dive on me, my wiki makes it easier.

And I agree that meta can be changed in a lot of ways. Some ways are harder. There are things that people are more likely to try to control (or be conscious of) than others. So the key is to look for those things.
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Post Post #1705 (isolation #151) » Mon Dec 18, 2017 1:52 pm

Post by boring »

I'm going to dredge up our VCs. I think it might be nice to see them all in one place.
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Post Post #1706 (isolation #152) » Mon Dec 18, 2017 3:22 pm

Post by boring »

VC 1.01 - 1.04
Spoiler:
Luca Blight
(3) -
IceGuy
, Lil Uzi Vert,
Transcend

DeasVail
(2) -
sheepsaysmeep
, Elmo TeH AzN
IceGuy
(3) -
Ectomancer
, Fishythefish,
DeasVail

Fishythefish(1) -
Yuria

havingfitz
(1) -
Luca Blight


not voting (3) -
mutantdevle
, kelbris,
havingfitz


Luca Blight
(3) -
IceGuy
, Lil Uzi Vert,
Transcend

IceGuy
(3) -
Ectomancer
, Fishythefish,
DeasVail

DeasVai
l(1) -
sheepsaysmeep

Fishythefish(1) -
Yuria

havingfitz
(1) -
Luca Blight

mutantdevle
(1) - Elmo TeH AzN
Ectomancer
(1) - kelbris

not voting (2) -
mutantdevle, havingfitz


Elmo TeH AzN(4) -
Luca Blight, Transcend, mutantdevle, Yuria

IceGuy
(3) -
Ectomancer
, Fishythefish,
DeasVail

mutantdevle
(2) - Elmo TeH AzN,
havingfitz

Luca Blight
(1) - Viome
DeasVail
(1) -
sheepsaysmeep

Ectomancer
(1) - kelbris

not voting (1) -
IceGuy


Elmo TeH AzN(5) -
Luca Blight, Transcend, mutantdevle, Yuria, Ectomancer

IceGuy
(2) - Fishythefish,
DeasVail

mutantdevle
(2) - Elmo TeH AzN,
havingfitz

DeasVail
(2) -
sheepsaysmeep
,
IceGuy

Luca Blight
(1) - Viome
Ectomancer
(1) - kelbris


VC 1.05 - 1.08
Spoiler:
Elmo TeH AzN(5) -
Luca Blight, Transcend, mutantdevle, Yuria, Ectomancer

mutantdevle
(2) - Elmo TeH AzN,
havingfitz

Ectomancer
(2) - kelbris, IceGuy
DeasVail
(1) -
sheepsaysmeep

Luca Blight
(1) - Viome

not voting (2) -
DeasVail
, Fishythefish


Elmo TeH AzN(5) -
Luca Blight, mutantdevle, Yuria, Ectomancer,
kelbris
kelbris(2) -
IceGuy,
Fishythefish
mutantdevle
(2) - Elmo TeH AzN,
havingfitz

DeasVail
(1) -
sheepsaysmeep

Luca Blight
(1) - Viome
IceGuy
(1) -
Transcend


not voting (2) -
DeasVail


Elmo TeH AzN(6) -
Luca Blight, mutantdevle, Ectomancer, kelbris, Transcend
,
DeasVail

mutantdevle
(3) - Elmo TeH AzN,
havingfitz
,
sheepsaysmeep

kelbris(2) -
IceGuy,
Fishythefish
Luca Blight
(1) - Viome

not voting (1) -
Yuria


boring(5) -
mutantdevle, Ectomancer,
kelbris,
Transcend, Luca Blight

kelbris(3) -
IceGuy,
Fishythefish,
Yuria

mutantdevle
(2) -
havingfitz
, sheepsaysmeep
Luca Blight
(1) - Viomi

not voting (2) -
DeasVail
, boring


VC 1.09 - 1.12
Spoiler:
boring(4) -
Ectomancer,
kelbris,
Transcend, Luca Blight

kelbris(4) -
IceGuy,
Fishythefish,
Yuria, mutantdevle

mutantdevle
(2) -
havingfitz
,
sheepsaysmeep

Transcend
(1) - Rem
sheepsaysmeep
(1) -
DeasVail


not voting (1) - boring


kelbris(5) -
IceGuy,
Fishythefish,
Yuria, mutantdevle, Transcend

boring(2) -
Ectomancer, Luca Blight

Transcend
(2) - kelbris,
sheepsaysmeep

sheepsaysmeep
(2) -
DeasVail
, Rem
Ectomancer
(1) -
havingfitz


not voting (1) - boring


boring(4) -
Luca Blight, mutantdevle, Transcend, Ectomancer

Transcend
(3) -
sheepsaysmeep
, Fishythefish,
DeasVail

kelbris(2) -
IceGuy, Yuria

IceGuy
(2) - boring, kelbris
sheepsaysmeep
(1) - Rem
Ectomancer
(1) -
havingfitz


IceGuy
(4) - boring, kelbris,
Ectomancer, Transcend

Transcend
(4) -
Yuria, IceGuy, havingfitz, mutantdevle

boring(3) -
Luca Blight, mutantdevle
, Fishythefish
sheepsaysmeep
(1) - Rem

not voting (1) -
sheepsaysmeep, DeasVail


VC 1.12 - 1.15
Spoiler:
IceGuy
(4) - boring, kelbris,
Ectomancer, Transcend

Transcend
(4) -
Yuria, IceGuy, havingfitz, mutantdevle

boring(3) -
Luca Blight
,
DeasVail
, Fishythefish
sheepsaysmeep
(1) - Rem

not voting (1) -
sheepsaysmeep


IceGuy
(4) - boring, kelbris,
Ectomancer, Transcend

boring(4) -
Luca Blight
,
DeasVail
, Fishythefish,
mutantdevle

Transcend
(2) -
Yuria, havingfitz

sheepsaysmeep
(1) - Rem
Ectomancer
(1) -
IceGuy


not voting (1) -
sheepsaysmeep


IceGuy(7) - kelbris,
Ectomancer, Transcend,
boring,
Luca Blight
, Fishythefish,
mutantdevle
- Lynch!
Transcend
(2) -
Yuria, havingfitz

boring(1) -
DeasVail

sheepsaysmeep
(1) - Rem
No Lynch(1) -
IceGuy


not voting (1) -
sheepsaysmeep
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Post Post #1707 (isolation #153) » Mon Dec 18, 2017 3:23 pm

Post by boring »

VC 2.02 - 2.05
Spoiler:
Transcend
(4) - kelbris,
UC Voyager
,
mutantdevle, havingfitz

DeasVail
(2) -
Luca Blight
, boring

not voting (5) - Fishythefish, Rem,
Ectomancer
,
DeasVail
,
Transcend


Transcend
(4) - kelbris,
UC Voyager
,
mutantdevle, havingfitz

DeasVail
(3) -
Luca Blight
, boring, Fishythefish

not voting (4) - Fishythefish, Rem,
Ectomancer
,
DeasVail
,
Transcend


DeasVail
(3) -
Luca Blight
, boring,
UC Voyager

Transcend
(3) - kelbris,
mutantdevle, havingfitz

UC Voyager
(1) - Fishythefish

not voting (4) - ProHawk,
Ectomancer
,
DeasVail
,
Transcend


Transcend
(3) -
mutantdevle, havingfitz
, ProHawk
DeasVail
(2) - boring,
UC Voyager

ProHawk(2) -
Transcend
, kelbris
UC Voyager
(2) - Fishythefish,
Luca Blight

Ectomancer
(1) -
DeasVail


not voting (1) -
Ectomancer


VC 2.06 - 2.08
Spoiler:
UC Voyager
(4) - Fishythefish,
Luca Blight, mutantdevle,
boring
ProHawk(2) - kelbris,
havingfitz

Ectomancer
(1) -
DeasVail

havingfitz
(1) - ProHawk
boring(1) -
Transcend


not voting (2) -
Ectomancer
,
UC Voyager


UC Voyager
(5) - Fishythefish,
Luca Blight, mutantdevle
, kelbris, ProHawk
boring(2) -
Transcend
,
DeasVail

ProHawk(1) -
havingfitz

Fishythefish(1) - boring

not voting (2) -
Ectomancer
,
UC Voyager


UC Voyager
(6) - Fishythefish,
Luca Blight, mutantdevle,
kelbris, ProHawk,
Transcend
- LYNCH
boring(1) -
DeasVail

ProHawk(1) -
havingfitz

Fishythefish(1) - boring

not voting (2) -
Ectomancer,
UC Voyager
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Post Post #1708 (isolation #154) » Mon Dec 18, 2017 3:23 pm

Post by boring »

Transcend
(5) - Fishythefish,
mutantdevle
,
DeasVail
, boring, kelbris
boring (1) -
Transcend

not voting (3) -
Ectomancer
, ProHawk,
havingfitz
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Post Post #1709 (isolation #155) » Mon Dec 18, 2017 3:24 pm

Post by boring »

that's Day 3 ^^^
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Post Post #1710 (isolation #156) » Mon Dec 18, 2017 3:27 pm

Post by boring »

All D4 VCs
Spoiler:
boring(2) -
DeasVail
, kelbris
DeasVail
(1) - boring

not voting (4) - Fishythefish,
mutantdevle
, ProHawk,
havingfitz


DeasVail
(3) - boring, Fishythefish, kelbris
boring(1) -
DeasVail

kelbris(1) - ProHawk

not voting (2) -
mutantdevle, havingfitz


DeasVail
(3) - boring, Fishythefish, kelbris
kelbris(2) - ProHawk,
DeasVail


not voting (2) -
mutantdevle, havingfitz


DeasVail
(3) - boring, Fishythefish, kelbris
kelbris(2) - ProHawk,
DeasVail


not voting (2) -
mutantdevle, havingfitz


DeasVail
(4) - boring, Fishythefish, kelbris,
mutantdevle
(LYNCH)
kelbris(1) - ProHawk
boring(1) -
DeasVail


not voting (1) -
havingfitz
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Post Post #1711 (isolation #157) » Mon Dec 18, 2017 3:56 pm

Post by boring »

My current thoughts:

1) I was shocked to notice how much time Deas and Sheep/UCV spent on one another's wagon. I didn't recall them particularly pushing one another, like, at all. So to see the votes sitting there seems especially staged.

2) I remember UCV bragging that we wouldn't figure out the scum team. If two of them were putting that much work into distancing (at least in posterity), it would stand to reason that scum #3 was in on it (as far as he was capable).

3) If this was planned, someone had to be planning. Can we attribute this kind of play to those we've already identified as scum (UCV/Sheep and Deas), or is there someone more strategic than them involved?

4) With all that distancing effort on previous days, why would either Kelbris and Prohawk risk being linked to Deas on Day 4 (assuming one is scum)? Were UCV and Sheep both manically strong-arming them into a strategy they abandoned after the slot's departure?

5) There have been a lot of town-on-town wagons. All of our scum have been found through investigation/proactivity on town's part. None have just fallen into our laps. To the contrary, all of the mislynches seem to have fallen into the scum team's lap. Therefore, the last scum wouldn't have been forced to be/seem particularly scummy in order to get to this point.

6) These VCs put Fishy back on the map for me (more accurately, they dampen my scum reads on both Kelbris and Prohawk).

7) Why would UCV be so cocky about a scum team of UCV/Deas/Kelbris, or UCV/Deas/Prohawk? No offence guys, but at that point in the game (and even now), that's not a super-threatening combination. Now, UCV/Deas/Fishy: that's a lot stronger.

8) Today is the last day we can afford a mislynch. If we lynch Fishy today and he's town, we're back to the same decision: Kelbris or Prohawk. If we lynch either Kelbris or Prohawk today, and either flip town, we're a lot more likely to lynch the other in LYLO.
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Post Post #1712 (isolation #158) » Mon Dec 18, 2017 4:05 pm

Post by boring »

9) If you imagine Fishy in red, the VCs on Days 2 and 4 look just like Day 1.
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Post Post #1713 (isolation #159) » Mon Dec 18, 2017 4:06 pm

Post by boring »

10) I missed the red on Sheep on VC 1.08.
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Post Post #1716 (isolation #160) » Tue Dec 19, 2017 1:32 am

Post by boring »

@Fishy - on my phone, so I'll be brief. You make a good point about day 2. Also, I think I saw one VC in there that has a wagon that's literally just UCV, Deas, and you. That's some ballsy shit if you were the scum team.

I noticed too that my wagons Day 1 were all town for a while. But town has a habit of caving to peer pressure in the early game. The easy hammer had to have been tempting for scum. Maybe they kept missing their chance due to poor timing. I've had that problem as scum before.
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Post Post #1719 (isolation #161) » Tue Dec 19, 2017 3:30 am

Post by boring »

I'm a little surprised you didn't notice it here, too.
In post 1667, kelbris wrote:Look, I get it. I have made quite a few stupid mistakes this game, however I AM VT, and if you think that lynching me would help, then by all means do it. I know that town can still absorb one mislynch, and I am volunteering myself for that. A fair amount of stuff has been going on IRL, and so I didn't really take notes regarding this game (therefore I forgot about my post from last month). However, I am certain from what Mutant has said, combined with the fact that from what I gather,
sheep is conf-town
, that the lynch pool is myself and ProHawk.

Also, @boring in regards to my flip-flopping between M/F, sometimes I just get a bit mixed up, nothing that should be taken as alignment indicative.

VOTE: Prohawk
I've just been waiting to see if it happens again. Kelbris does seem to have sheep on the mind.
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Post Post #1725 (isolation #162) » Tue Dec 19, 2017 1:26 pm

Post by boring »

yeah, it feels like he's handing us rope..
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Post Post #1727 (isolation #163) » Tue Dec 19, 2017 2:51 pm

Post by boring »

Kelbris's meta

scum

viewtopic.php?t=65403&f=54&st=0&sk=t&sd ... er_sort=Go
note the utter lack of scum hunting.

viewtopic.php?t=60432&f=54&st=0&sk=t&sd ... er_sort=Go
another wasteland of pointless posts.


town

viewtopic.php?t=64495&f=52&st=0&sk=t&sd ... er_sort=Go
look at this scum-hunting.

viewtopic.php?t=65032&f=56&st=0&sk=t&sd ... er_sort=Go
LOOK AT IT!


I'm not normally a meta-heavy player. Like, don't get me wrong, I meta dive for background information, but it usually comes up with nothing significant. Partly because that takes a lot of effort, and partly because game context is such a huge factor in tone and behavior. If he flips scum, that's an entire team whose alignments were all but confirmed by their meta.

I think I'm going to try to stop overthinking. I'll endorse a Kelbris lynch, barring anything radical occurring between now and then.
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Post Post #1728 (isolation #164) » Tue Dec 19, 2017 2:58 pm

Post by boring »

Also, I wanted to bring up this one. There are only like 4 posts. But you'll notice him bitching someone out for quickhammering.

viewtopic.php?t=65851&f=53&st=0&sk=t&sd ... er_sort=Go
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Post Post #1733 (isolation #165) » Wed Dec 20, 2017 1:46 pm

Post by boring »

He's pretty likely to flip scum at this point. Besides, the mod might appreciate having Christmas off.

VOTE: Kelbris

That's L-1
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Post Post #1737 (isolation #166) » Thu Dec 21, 2017 8:49 am

Post by boring »

Kelbris hasn't left any indication that he has more to say. I'm pretty sure the game is about to be over, but if not, @mutant, do you have anything to add before either you or Fish hammers?
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Post Post #1749 (isolation #167) » Sun Dec 24, 2017 4:22 pm

Post by boring »

Effort is NAI.
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Post Post #1753 (isolation #168) » Mon Dec 25, 2017 1:17 pm

Post by boring »

In post 1750, ProHawk wrote:Actually it sometimes is
Effort is only AI if it's a player-specific tell. Do you have any reason to believe this is the case with Fishy?
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Post Post #1756 (isolation #169) » Tue Dec 26, 2017 3:20 pm

Post by boring »

I'll probably have a few questions for both of you over the next 72-ish hours.
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Post Post #1759 (isolation #170) » Wed Dec 27, 2017 2:10 pm

Post by boring »

In post 1748, ProHawk wrote:Well that sucks, effort meter places Fishythefish as most likely scum.
This was the first post today, so it's sticking in my mind.

What prompted you to think of effort first?
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Post Post #1760 (isolation #171) » Wed Dec 27, 2017 2:14 pm

Post by boring »

@Fishy - what's been town's biggest failure this game, in your opinion?
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Post Post #1761 (isolation #172) » Wed Dec 27, 2017 2:29 pm

Post by boring »

I'm going to be dumping thoughts so I have them all in one-ish place for later. Starting with the NKs.

N1 - Yuria
Outed PR

N2 - Luca Blight
The most competent townie

N3 - Ectomancer
???

N4 - havingfitz
If I understood early D5 correctly, mutant's accidentally outed their roles to scum, making fitz the best NK of the two.

N5 - mutantdevle
Last PR.
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Post Post #1767 (isolation #173) » Thu Dec 28, 2017 7:26 am

Post by boring »

I'd argue that scum
act
just like town in LYLO. There's no particular need to keep your options open, when LYLO is just a matter of making a townie vote wrong. So whether scum tries creates a 1v1, or tries to cultivate a TvT, it hardly matters. Town have reasons for each approach too. Either they've decided, and fight for the lynch, or they want to keep things neutral as long as possible while they decide.
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Post Post #1769 (isolation #174) » Thu Dec 28, 2017 4:16 pm

Post by boring »

I guess I'm arguing that there's almost nothing AI to be gleaned from LYLO play (except, of course, for votes).

I've been sifting through combination ISOs, but I'm not ready to share my findings. So my posts are limited in depth.

Is there anything either of you plan to review and summarize, so I don't duplicate effort?
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Post Post #1772 (isolation #175) » Fri Dec 29, 2017 2:55 pm

Post by boring »

In post 1770, ProHawk wrote:What would you like me to review?
I'd actually like to know your thoughts on days 1 and 2. In general, and as they pertained to your slot.

@Fishy - reviewing your Day 1, I was really lost on your progression on IceGuy. You started on him, seemed to forget him entirely, and then only returned when he was clearly the lynch. Do you remember enough from that day to fill in the gaps for me?
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Post Post #1774 (isolation #176) » Sat Dec 30, 2017 2:55 pm

Post by boring »

I've concluded that Ecto was killed because they thought he was a PR. I don't see any clear line from him to either identified scum or either of you. His sudden standoffishness must have spooked them.

By the way, can anyone explain the connection people were making D1 between my slot's alignment and those of Yuria and IceGuy? Players just seemed to go with it, but I don't see how those kinds of associations could be rational D1.

I know I'm dwelling on D1, but there was so much chaos that day. I think it might hold a lot of information.
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Post Post #1775 (isolation #177) » Sat Dec 30, 2017 3:02 pm

Post by boring »

also, we only have 7 days left.
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Post Post #1779 (isolation #178) » Mon Jan 01, 2018 4:51 pm

Post by boring »

In post 1777, Fishythefish wrote:
In post 1774, boring wrote:I've concluded that Ecto was killed because they thought he was a PR. I don't see any clear line from him to either identified scum or either of you. His sudden standoffishness must have spooked them.

By the way, can anyone explain the connection people were making D1 between my slot's alignment and those of Yuria and IceGuy? Players just seemed to go with it, but I don't see how those kinds of associations could be rational D1.

I know I'm dwelling on D1, but there was so much chaos that day. I think it might hold a lot of information.
For the Ecto kill - yeah, it doesn't look like one that helps us today. It could either have been PR hunting or just killing a contributing townie, but it doesn't look like his reads were super relevant.

What connection do you mean D1? I don't recall linking those alignments, or other people doing so?
"If IceGuy flips scum, boring is town and Yuria is scum."


It was started somewhere between Ecto and Trans. But I recall Mutant picking it up too. I'm not sure who else, at the moment. Since I don't recall anyone challenging the rationale of this assumption, I presumed that it made sense to everyone. Since you were around that day too, I was wondering if you understood it.

... but tbh, I don't remember anymore why I thought your answer was important, so no big deal if you don't know.
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Post Post #1784 (isolation #179) » Tue Jan 02, 2018 1:50 pm

Post by boring »

Here's the thing: If Fishy is scum, I think the denizens of the dead thread will forgive me voting ProHawk instead. If ProHawk is scum and I vote Fishy, I'm pretty sure they're going to burn me in effigy.

But I am probably going to vote Fishy anyway.

I'll sleep on it, and check back in tomorrow.
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Post Post #1787 (isolation #180) » Wed Jan 03, 2018 1:58 pm

Post by boring »

In post 1785, Fishythefish wrote:Glad to see I got it right :)

If you are planning to vote for me, I'd really like to hear why first so I can explain anything that needs explaining. I think I've played a pretty damn good game here, and I don't at all know why you think I'm more likely scum than Prohawk.

God, I hate posting at this stage of the game. Makes me feel like scum.
I'm not going to pretend that I'm 100% confident about this.

There's the gut feeling that you're coasting in a game full of easy targets. Then there's the intensified feeling when I looked through your meta. You're a lot more assertive as town, and more easy going as scum.

I asked you what the biggest problem has been with town. Maybe we simply disagree, but I think blaming Transcend was simply a convenient answer, and one that you thought I wanted to hear. You could argue that ProHawk has given shitty answers today too, but I've noticed that impulsive town get pretty fuckity at the end.

But there's another thing nagging at me. A few, really.

Sheep and Deas were voting each other pretty much all of Day 1. They didn't seem to be too protective of each other other days (when it switched to UCV) either. If the third scum slot was as unstable as LUV/Viomi/REM/ProHawk, I don't see them taking that risk. I get that "every man for himself" cuts down on associations, but why not bus the crazy slot, then?

I think the scum actions, as they unfolded, makes the most sense when the team is confident that one of their members is going all the way. And, if, by chance, they were waaay more confident in ProHawk's slot than they should have been (no offence), why would ProHawk then risk openly defending Deas?
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Post Post #1788 (isolation #181) » Wed Jan 03, 2018 3:52 pm

Post by boring »

Okay everyone, I'm really, really, really, really, really, really, really, very extremely sorry about this if I'm wrong.

I think I'm just going to do this like ripping off a band-aid.

VOTE: Fishythefish

this is why town!boring shouldn't be allowed in LYLO
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Post Post #1805 (isolation #182) » Thu Jan 04, 2018 3:19 am

Post by boring »

Yay! I didn't fuck up!

That was a really close game. Scum team did a great job.

@Fishy - I think our greatest liability as town was/is the site wide tendency toward a mob mentality. We look for weakness in scum and likeability in town. This is a game of social manipulation, and we all seem to forget that we're playing with people from a number of different personalities, POVs, and social skills.
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