Open 699 - Pick your Poison - Town Win

[havingfitz]

I HARDCLAIM INNOCENT CHILE

I believe you.
But can you ask the mod to confirm you are IC to remove all doubt?

VOTE: DeasVail

[havingfitz]

The mod cannot confirm me as innocent chile

I assumed a mispell...not lame humor.

Shame....you're one it would be nice to have confirmed.

VOTE: Transcend

[havingfitz]

Slow day.

Not fond of RVS but typically throw a vote out anyway.

Hence the DeasVail vote.

Also not fond of people doing shit that could potentially result in town PRs being outed. Ex...claiming something that resembles an actual town PR like "Innocent Chile" smh....

Hence the Transcend vote.

I assumed this game would probably have an IC...and as I wasn't 100% sure what the mafia might have I looked over some completed PYP games.

Of the five completed ones I could find this was the layouts:

1 - IC/2*Vig/1*Cop & 3 mafia goons
2 - IC/2*Vig/Tracker & 3 mafia goons
3 - IC/2*Vig/Tracker & 3 mafia goons
4 - IC/2*Vig/1* Cop & 3 mafia goons
5 - IC/2*Vig/1*Cop & 3 mafia goons

Also...scum do have daytalk so that works in their favor.

This is my first PYP game and I'm surprised so many games had Vigs and Cops. My guess coming in would have been IC-Tracker-JK. Maybe the Cop and Vig are attractive as they have limited uses.

Regardless...pretty clear there will be an IC in this game which makes Transcend's lol claim all the more annoying. Would have sucked if Transcend is town and his humor caused the real ~IC to claim. As it is...I think the ~IC should wait until he/she is on the verge of being lynched...if that ever happens. Same obviously for the other 2 PRs.

Not solid on my Transcend vote...if he was going to screw around as scum and try to lol out someone I would think he'd try for a non-IC pr...which scum would know who was in play. i.e. I doubt my vote stays there long.

And before my discussion of what town PRs historically tend to be in these games generates "HE'S ROLEFISHING!!!!! accusations...I'm not advocating any town PRs claim. Unless or course they're about to be mislynched or if they have some actions/results worth sharing.

[havingfitz]

UNVOTE:

[havingfitz]

I don't feel like individually addressing mutant and Luca's suspicions towards me point by point but since they seem to be along the same lines I will say this:

- imo it's not the worst thing in the world for an IC to claim right out of the gates. I kind of lump them with millers in that regard. So Transcend's claim, if true, wasn't horrible.
- if I were an IC I would not claim until I was on the verge of being mislynched.
- if an IC did see the need to claim...I would expect them to have the mod confirm the claim.
- I really dislike when town (assuming Transcend is town) claims a PR that they are not.
- anything that introduces the possibility of a genuine town PR CC'ing and therefore outing themself is bad bad bad. Hence my vote on Transcend.
- Transcend, in my estimation, is a bit of a wildcard and sometimes does things I might not necessarily say or due...so when he mentioned the mod had referred to the role as innocent chile (which I had not recalled) I could absolutely see a joke claim coming from town Transcend. Hence the unvote.
- My current read on Transcend is a town lean. His Innocent Chile lol claim could have been from either alignment so I'm just going to ignore it.
- I think Luca's push/vote on me is weak and I was considering a vote on himn...but I'm not sure I like the consistency of his wagon so I'm not going to vote him at this time.

I want to look over a few players who have my attention before deciding where to vote.

[havingfitz]

What does a scenario where fakeclaiming town causes a real town pr to claim (the part you're quoting me on) have to do with a claimed IC getting mod confirmation?

[havingfitz]

What does a scenario where fakeclaiming town causes a real town pr to claim (the part you're quoting me on) have to do with a claimed IC getting mod confirmation?

Mod isnt going to confirm the IC as they have already stated

???

Innocent Child PM's the mod when he or she wants to be declared innocent. The Mod will then announce it in the next post.

^

[havingfitz]

Just to be clear, I want Fitz to answer the following

:

1-

With regards to looking so thoroughly into the setup so early on, do you have any meta that shows this is something you do as Town?

2-

You don't think Transcend's fake claim was AI indicative and are in fact townreading him, so why would you vote him?

3-

What compelled you to unvote in 43? I don't want a general reason, I want to know why specifically you unvoted here and not in your previous 31?

4-

What do you mean by the '

consistency of my wagon

', and why is that a reason to not vote me?

1-

I probably have some examples...possibly as either alignment. I don't recall.

2-

- anything that introduces the possibility of a genuine town PR CC'ing and therefore outing themself is bad bad bad. Hence my vote on Transcend.

3-

so when he mentioned the mod had referred to the role as innocent chile (which I had not recalled) I could absolutely see a joke claim coming from town Transcend. Hence the unvote.

4-

I meant what your wagon consists of. The players on it. Consistency was not the best word. Switch "consistency" with "make-up."

Other general points that aren't necessarily questions:

5-

I don't like how you had time to make a long post on setup spec and excuse making but did not interact with anyone or show any hint that you're trying to find scum.

6-

I don't like how self-concious you seem - you feel the need to explain your RVS vote even though no-one mentioned it, you felt the need to explain your Transcend vote and your position on Transcend so everyone knows you might unvote soon. You were worried your 31 might be perceived as rolefishing.

7-

I don't like your conflicted view of being annoyed that the IC might be drawn out while also saying an early IC claim isn't bad. Also how you said it's a 'shame' Transcend's claim wasn't real - it doesn't match up, and makes your subsequent claim of 'annoyance' seem fake.

8-

I don't like how you say you were thinking of voting me but then don't vote me - what is the purpose of this exactly? A veiled threat to say 'if you keep this up I will vote you?' A way of throwing a bit of shade while avoiding direct conflict?

5-

I'm not big on interacting....interrogation. I'm more into observation and posting my thoughts.

6-

Not worried. I expected it.

7-

I'm not conflicted. I've explained my view on ICs and Transcend's "claim". Just because I might not give the IC role a lot of weight that doesn't mean I would support someone who was IC being unnecessarily forced to out themself. As for "it's a shame"....if there was one person in the game I would like to have confirmed it would probably be Transcend. If his claim had been legit and the mod confirmed it that info would be something I would be grateful for.

8-

I didn't care for the people on your wagon atm so until I have a closer look at the game I'll hold off voting.

[havingfitz]

@Fitz

1. If you remember then please share.

2&3. So you unvoted because Transcend said it was a joke in 37? The problem I have with this is that you already acknowledged it was a joke in 19...the same post you originally voted him.

4&9. Why would whoever is on my wagon affect whether you vote me, especially given you've already said you have no clear reads? And you haven't taken into account that at least two of the votes on my wagon weren't serious, and the other (LUV) has replaced out.

5. Fair enough I guess, but you haven't actually observed anything related to what's been posted so far.

6. You expected what?

7. Again, your apparent annoyance of a real IC being potentially drawn out doesn't quite match your regret that the IC claim wasn't real. My problem is that your annoyance doesn't seem genuine - you weren't annoyed when you thought the claim was genuine, you weren't annoyed immediately after; your annoyance seemed fabricated. This is probably something that can't be proven nor disproven, but it's just something I picked up.

FFS.

1 - If I recalled I would have shared. You would have just as much looking for what you are looking for as I would so if it's important to you knock yourself out. I will add that the reason I looked in to previous PYP set ups was I wanted to confirm my assumption that IC would actually be one of the roles in the game.

2&3 - I have explained in detail, and more than once iirc, why I voted Transcend and why I unvoted him.

4&8 - I never said I "have no clear reads." Don't attribute what you think to what I say. When I made the comment the votes were still on you...when they got there was not a factor in my apprehension.

5 - You don't know what I have or haven't observed.

6 - Someone would accuse my 31 of being rolefishing.

7 - I feel I have explained this more than once. I'm not sure how you are tying your perceptions of how annoyed I may or may not have been at various points in the game relate to each other but you are reaching and it is....annoying. For you, and only you as I imagine no one else gives a fcuk about this dialogue, I will elaborate:

- Transcend hard claims Innocent Chile. I take this as a legit IC claim and not out of the realm of possibility for an IC to do so early in the game. I'm not annoyed in the slightest. Would I have claimed so early as IC? No. Whatever.
- Transcend indicates the mod cannot confirm what I was perceiving as an IC claim. This is annoying as shit to me because (as I have pointed out)...anything a townie does that has the potential to cause a town PR to unnecessarily out them self I view as bad. So Transcend is either scum fcuking around that can't confirm their claim or bad town. Either of which is worthy of my vote imo.
- Transcend points out the mod had referred to IC as Innocent Chile...which I had read but had not recalled...and then his lol claim made more sense to me. I could see Transcend having some fun with the mod's wording. Hence the unvote. No annoyance at this point.
- My regret that Transcend wasn't actually the IC has nothing to do with my annoyance that he could have outed a real IC. If Transcend was the IC and claimed...that's his prerogative and I would happily remove him from my as yet tbd pool of scum.

[havingfitz]

VOTE: Elmo TeH AzN

I’m also currently willing to vote for havingfitz if the wagon was to switch to him. Both of these players strike me as scummy but as Elmo currently has a bigger wagon on them, and I just see them as generally less useful for the town, that is where my vote lies.

Why am I scummy to you? Has my discussion with Luca left you with questions towards me?

You call me "pretty scummy" in your Post 64. In the same post you say you "don't think there is anything scummy about" Elmo.

And then despite having a variety of scum and usefulness reads detailed in 64, you do not see fit to vote anyone until after they have placed a vote on you.

Why is it better to vote someone you don't find very scummy over someone you find "pretty scummy?"

You seem to hold, what I think is an inconsistent application of, usefulness in higher regard than what you perceive as scummy. You also seem a bit of a try hard.

VOTE: mutant

[havingfitz]

v/LA until Monday

[havingfitz]

I genuinely think she is scum

But you do not think she is scum. You think she is useless. It's more of a policy lynch for you than an actual scumread.

If you think Elmo is genuinely scum....what are your reasons for thinking so?

And Elmo is more useless than others? Why not unvote and see what Elmo's replacement's "usefulness" is?

[havingfitz]

The mutant lynch is shit

It is scum motivated

If Elmo greens then we're lynching Fitz

So if the Elmo slot is green that wagon isn't scum motivated?

How's this...if "Elmo greens" we're lynching you.

Next best thing to a bark collar.

[havingfitz]

Slot is scum, don't want it drawing out prs

Irony

[havingfitz]

UNVOTE:

[havingfitz]

Slot is scum, don't want it drawing out prs

Irony

Only an idiot would cc me there

Just saying

Idiot happens.

[havingfitz]

Slot is scum, don't want it drawing out prs

Irony

Only an idiot would cc me there

Just saying

Idiot happens.

[havingfitz]

Is that really all you have to say tho' Fitz

I'll probably say more at some point.

[havingfitz]

What are your reads?

My unsubstantiated ottomh reads:

- Fish townlean
- Deas townlean
- kelbris tbd
- boring townlean
- Yuria tbd
- Viomi lean suspect
- sheeps tbd
- Iceguy tbd
- mutant tbd
- Transcend townlean
- Luca lean suspect
- Ecto tbd

What are yours?

[havingfitz]

is it Transcend's town or scum play to be a shitty troll? Or is that how he always is?

I would say "always is."

[havingfitz]

Also walk me through Luca scum please

unsubstantiated ottomh reads

+ dash of omgus.

When I have a stronger read on someone I'll vote them. Might not be until tomorrow.

[havingfitz]

@Viomi...why are you voting Transcend?

Any other reads or game thoughts?

[havingfitz]

@Viomi...why are you voting Transcend?

Any other reads or game thoughts?

Because regardless of his alignment, we lose if he makes it anywhere near Mylo/lylo

And no, I was going to read the thread but he's making it very difficult to keep interest in this game. I'm trying, though.

His trolling is par for him. NAI imo.

Stay away from the most recent page till you get to it

[havingfitz]

Fish town Dea scummy kel town boring hard scum Yuria null scum viomi scum sheep idk ice scummy mutant town luca town Ecto town

What's your read on me?

[havingfitz]

Yeah, you know, why would the date of my recently deceased best friend's birthday antagonize me?

You're v/la the next 4 weeks because of your recently deceased best friend's birthday?

And how would that be known to us? It's not a factor in anything anyone has said to you to this point.

Condolences but...

Fucking prick

..this isn't really necessary.

[havingfitz]

Viomi...your behavior has been a lot more offensive than anyrhing Transcend has said or done. Sure...he's annoying but it's nothing psychotic. I second the ban and mental help recommendations. smh...

[havingfitz]

boring....why the Luca unvote?

[havingfitz]

- Iceguy tbd

- Iceguy townlean

[havingfitz]

Well I just had a moderately large post lost in a horrible cut and paste fcuk up (i.e. getting distracted and cutting something else before pasting my initial cut).

Summary of lost post...

ISO'd sheepsaysmeep. Kind of keep forgetting they are in the game. Seems to be skating under the radar. Can't say I recall a single post from them that has sign of any thought given to it. Scum lean.

ISO'd kelbris. Lots of promised content iirc and nothing really delivered. Just here. Slight scum lean. Could be due to lack of anything but just haven't got any vibe to keep around.

"I'm not a fan of" Ectomancer. Their one post of note is a reiteration of suspicions towards Iceguy (who he is voting at this point) and a lovefest towards Luca sorting/shading me. Then in his next post he proceeds to put Elmo at L-2 and asks for a claim.

@Ecto

...what were the reasons you voted for Elmo and has boring done anything to change your "suspicions" towards that slot?

Will give other read refinement/thoughts as I am able. Here is my current rack n stack:

- Fish townlean
- Deas townlean
- boring townlean
- Iceguy townlean
- Transcend townlean
- mutant slight townlean
- Yuria tbd
- Luca tbd/slight scumlean
- Viomi tbd/slight scumlean
- sheeps scumlean
- kelbris scumlean
- Ecto scumlean

VOTE: Ecto

[havingfitz]

Actually...second guessing my kelbris scumlean. Drop it to slight.

[havingfitz]

UNVOTE:

Can someone explain the boring and kelbris wagons to me?

Boring's predecessor Elmo made a bad vote on Mutant with some very questionable reasoning, followed by unsatisfactory responses to any questions aimed at her before replacing out.

Kelbris has done nothing but coast and play it safe so far, and was the owner of the scummiest looking vote on the Boring wagon, in my opinion.

So you have been pretty consistent with your Elmo read.
What about kelbris' vote in support of a wagon you started, and are still on, is so scummy?

[havingfitz]

vote Boring

You know what? That might be L-1 or it might be the hammer. Oh well.

For someone so adamant about getting a claim out of boring (but wanting to lynch someone else)...you seem fairly indifferent to possibly hammering boring.

More Ecto votes would be nice.

Also...I believe boring is at L-3.

[havingfitz]

VOTE: Transcend

[havingfitz]

VOTE: Transcend
Policy. Annoyance. Clean up. If town...best mislynch available.

[havingfitz]

Sure...why not? Don't let the hammer hit you in the ass.

[havingfitz]

You still need one more vote though before you're L-1.

[havingfitz]

Town doesn't try to fuck over its team mates. You could have outted the IC (because I'd be amazed if there wasn't one)...you did out the jk (regardless of whether yuria screwed up it was because of your actions) and you've caused 2 people to replace out. You're antifuckingtown. And you absolutely are incriminated for helping lynch Iceguy. He was town and you helped mislynch him.

You have provided nothing positive towards town's wincon. You're like a boil on town's ass.

P.edit
@Luca...I'm voting who I want gone. I don't have 3 votes to play so the day's not over until he gets 2 more votes. If he had been L-1 I would have hammered.

Why are you voting Deas over boring? Has you boring? You were on boring almost all of D1.

[havingfitz]

Ebwop...Has your boring read changed?

[havingfitz]

^L-1 btw

[havingfitz]

i really wish this site wasn't so policy based because i like doing gambits all the time

but w/e if you guys think i need to die to win the game string me up

I don't think the site is against all gambits. Just ones thst cause town pr's to be outted.
You had no reason to claim at L-4.
As scum you'd know there was a jk.
As town...if you had a burning desire to "gambit" and put town prs at risk you should have put that fire fcuking out.

[havingfitz]

i clearly said in my post tho for no one to cc me

Yeah...how'd that work out?

k 'tevs

VOTE: transcend

He's voting the same wagon you are. Why the

[havingfitz]

Fitz, are you really willing to end the day already with a policy lynch?

This.

There's no rational call for a policy lynch on Day 2, unless that player is still actively disrupting town, which he isn't. I'm also stumped as to how a policy lynch can sound like a good idea in the first 24 hours of a new day.

@Fitz - Can you share your thoughts on both DaesVail and kelbris, specifically?

I've given my thoughts on voting Transcend. Disagree as you wish.

My thoughts atm are still as they were here.

[havingfitz]

Fitz, are you really willing to end the day already with a policy lynch?

This.

There's no rational call for a policy lynch on Day 2, unless that player is still actively disrupting town, which he isn't. I'm also stumped as to how a policy lynch can sound like a good idea in the first 24 hours of a new day.

@Fitz - Can you share your thoughts on both DaesVail and kelbris, specifically?

I've given my thoughts on voting Transcend. Disagree as you wish.

My thoughts atm are still as they were here.

... so one sentence on kelbris, and nothing at all to explain your DaesVail read.

Is there no reason behind your DaesVail read?

An absence of observed actions/posts I find suspect supporting POE.

[havingfitz]

ffs you are needy Luca.

wrt #910 - I agree Transcend should have been the D1 lynch (as evidenced by where I was voting to end D1).

If you want to lynch someone else (Deasvail or whomever) make a case on them that the majority of people support. I'm voting who I want gone.

I actually do not dislike Transcend and think he is a solid player, but in mutual games with him which I can recall...it seems he always winds up having stretches of asshole or dumbass play which make it not enjoyable or frustrating to play with him. And despite this I do not have a Transcend lynch policy...I have an "anyone who does lots of shit against the best interests of town/lies and outs town PRs" lynch policy.

I'm 100% completely comfortable being on the Transcend wagon.

As for whether my reasoning for town reading someone does or doesn't cut it with you...that's your problem. Not everyone has to be as verbose as you to have a read on someone. And I somewhat recall seeing a long post by you towards Deasvail but I couldn't be bothered to do an in depth analysis of it. That said...I've looked a few of your Deasvail posts over and I do not see any merit in what you are calling him out for.

You say he hasn't taken any hard stances. I would say voting someone to L-1 and leaving it there through end of day is a hard stance.

You say his vote on sheep was pointless as we near deadline....he votes sheep Wed Nov 8th (post 554) and unvotes him 3 DV posts later the very next day (Nov 9th). He spends the last three RL days of D1 on boring. So how is his sheep vote 5 days before we lynched a time critical tell? Especially when he spent the majority of that time voting the same person you were?

You even caveat your vote on him with "he hasn't done anything overtly scummy"...no shit. So let's vote him! No thanks. There are at least 5 other players I would vote before I would consider Deasvail att. Including you.



And I would say the Fish vote on DV is the first thing he's done that strikes me as suspect. He basically admits he is torn and talks about all the town things he sees wrt DV and then decides to vote him for coming across as town. This despite the person he voted to end D1 still being "pretty likely to be scum" in his estimation. I don't get his support of the Luca DV points or his preference for a DV vote over others.

[havingfitz]

@Luca....

Rather than putting words in my mouth to make shitty shading attempts towards me why not just actually try and come up with a coherent case on me (or anyone for that matter) and vote where your mouth is?

Where do you get off saying I'm "done for the day" and that I'm "not willing to look elsewhere?"

Just in the last ~24 hours:

1) I've posed questions and provided opinions towards others not related to Transcend.
2) I've answered questions not related to Transcend from more than one player.

How is any of that "anti-town?" WTF do you even get that assessment from? Am I at the bottom of today's effort meter?

I have not said I'm opposed to voting outside of Transcend today. What I am doing right now is voting for who I want out of the game. He's not the only one that falls in that category and if anyone else I have strong suspicions towards is in a position to be lynched I will definitely considering moving my vote. DV isn't in that category att.

--------------------------

I sound disinterested? That's really quantifiable. /sarcasm I glossed over your Deasvail comments when I first came to them because wall. I did read them prior to my response to you...as I indicate. If glossing over walls initially = disinterest...then yes...I am disinterested...always.

--------------------------

Rather than stating what isn't a hard stance why don't you give an example of what does meet your high standards of commitment? And I do not recall seeing anything in your post this day maligning DV for his sheep vote other than it being pointless and the timing of it...or anything wrt boring. You might have said it a few game days back but my total recall is out of order. If you have a better case on DV than his sheep vote as we approached deadline was pointless please provide better reference material.

--------------------------

Nice ad-homs wrt my level of scumhunting. How did your level of scumhunting work out for you D1? Are you tr'ing boring now? If so...why? If not...why hold Deavail's D1 boring voting (in conjunction w/ you) against him? Are they partners?

You go ahead and lynch people you think come across as town, I'll lynch people I think come across as scum...or excessively anti-town.

[havingfitz]

Hey, ha ha ha

Friendly doggo here to remind you that the rem slot is still scum

Why aren't you voting them then? Or anyone ftm.

[havingfitz]

Prodge. Will post nlt tomorrow.

[havingfitz]

I can't get over the opening play by HavingFitz in asking for mod-confirmation of a claim and then voting said person when the claim was clarified as being false. His post just sounded like he knew that Trans was lying and he would have absolutely known that as scum. Call it conf-bias but his posts since then haven't swayed my view. - Scum

The nerve of me voting someone who had lied about their role...and then voting them again later when they did it again with more damaging results.
How is asking the mod to confirm an IC claim scummy? That's a feature of the IC role...it's mod confirmable. I would do the same with any other role that came with such a guarantee. So you come up with a shit reason to suspect me and use that as a scum tell against me all the while when it sounds like you have the same view towards Transcend's actions...

Question....how would I know Transcend was lying? Even if I were scum, which I am not, I would not know who the IC was. And unless you think scum passed on having the most useless PR of the 5 in the game...there is an IC out there somewhere. So how would I as scum "have absolutely known that?" Unless you are suggesting I am scum that knew there wasn't an IC....which is laughable imo to suggest.

Transcendence.... Villiage Idiot. Being that he claimed at L-3 and not at L-1 like I had thought for some reason... he may be town but still falls into a dont-let-live to endgame category.

So I am voting him at the moment (though probably not for long), and that is also something you would like to see transpire before too long as well (eliminating Transcend), yet despite this similar viewpoint I'm a better recipient of your vote because I caused him to out his fakeclaim?

Good stuff.

[havingfitz]

@Fitz - do you have easy-access to your meta lying around anywhere, or do I need to sift through your profile? (for example, boring makes it super easy to access through her wiki link because she's awesome).

It's called searching my topics. Is there something in particular you're interested in?

[havingfitz]

My impression of UCV is they're lynchbait. The lack of responses could be due to being in too many games. Is their response rate to questions AI for them?

[havingfitz]

yo fitz, how do you feel about the votes that were on you?

Iirc Pro is the only vote I've recieved the entire game.

Viomi tbd/slight scumlean

My view on this slot hasn't moved townward. If anything Pro's reasoning for voting me has hurt it imo.

[havingfitz]

So Pro....no misdirection intended. Let me be more clear (hopefully).

Question to Pro

---> do you think Transcend is town or scum and does that answer impact your read on me?

So your scum!fitz premise is that I knew Transcend was lying and responded the way I did to implicate him.

If you want to propagate a theory that there is not an IC in this game that's fine. I think that is a major reach given that IMO IC is the weakest of the PRs available and there has not been a PYP game yet (that I've found) that hasn't had an IC. Granted...none of them had a JK either so you never know. I don't think there is a 2*Vig because there wasn't a 2nd nk N1. So that leaves 2 of three between IC/1-shot Cop/and Tracker. If I had to bet it would be the 1*Cop and scum take their chances on a single investigation along with an IC. Vice a tracker that could track every night. If you think scum are more likely to select a cop or tracker over an IC then we're done talking and you're delusional.

If there IS an IC...

Scum!me would know there was an IC but not know who it was, so my mod confirmation question would be coming from a legitimate confirmation objective....i.e. NAI.

Town!me would not know what PRs are out there but my opinion would be that there was almost gauranteed to be an IC. And as I also said...if someone is going to claim a PR and I have a way of confirming it (ex. mod confirmation)...I'm going to ask to have it confirmed. And in this case it happened to expose Transcend as fakeclaiming. Which after a little more discussion I was willing to accept as a joke (the who innocent "chile" wording smartassery).


The voting Transcend bit was regarding the fact that you push a case on me being scum because I knew transcend was lying and tried to out him...yet you share the similar opinion that he needs to be out of the game and are voting with the person you are scum reading (me) for trying to implicate transcend and get him out of the game.

I.e you are saying I am scum but agree with me.

tl:dr;

1. I'm town.
2. I believe there is an IC in this game

as history would suggest.

3. Pro's push on me is based on scum!me knowing there ISN'T an IC in this game (see pt 2).
4. Despite scum reading me Pro agrees with my logic regarding getting rid of Transcend.
5. Pro's push on me is scummy for points 1, 3 & 5.
6. VOTE: ProHawk

[havingfitz]

OTOH, your opening demand for a claim is a ridiculously small thing to base a scumread on at this stage of the game.

I never demanded a claim. I followed up Transcend's unsolicited claim with a request he mod confirm it.

[havingfitz]

Happy Thanksgiving to any town or scum who are celebrating it.

v/LA until Monday the 27th (though I hope to get some posting in).

[havingfitz]

I think it greens

I was ok with ucv dead

We had 5 days left. IF you thought UCV was green why not continue to push votes towards someone else? Or leave it to scum (if you are town) to get a mislynch (if UCV is town).

And not giving a chance for UCV to make a claim...when you have claimed everything but the kitchen sink is anti town (and inconsiderate) as hell.

If UCV is town my vote is parked on you again tomorrow. Hopefully you are scum but if you aren't...there is no way I want you in a game town no longer can afford a mislynch in.

[havingfitz]

Kelbris hammer was pretty crappy. Thoughts on that Transcend?

[havingfitz]

mutant...I'm leaning towards you not being scum so I'd appreciate an unvote.

I'm not scum.

[havingfitz]

mutant...I'm leaning towards you not being scum so I'd appreciate an unvote.

I'm not scum.

Am I good to vote you then?

Only if you are scum.

[havingfitz]

There's absolutely no chance you could be lying to me right?

Not this game.

If you want me to unvote you then start the Deas wagon.

I want you to unvote me because I'm town and your case on me is shit.

I'm scum because you don't know what you are doing and you think I'm town...so you must be wrong and I'm scum? Because two of the nk's both had issues with me? Gee...so let me get this straight...if I'm scum and I kill people who suspect me....town might crack my master plan? Fcuk me. Eight years on this site and a 100+ games and now I get it.

And your case on Deas is just a slightly lesser version of mine so you want me to vote him?

I'm not sure who I want to vote today yet. It might end up being Deas. Or not. All I know is the two players I'm not interested in voting atm are you and boring.

Since you're so in to analyzing stuff...what's your read on the other two players who share the same distinction as you of being on both mislynches?
Or do you think there was scum on the UCV lynch?

[havingfitz]

So either they thought he was a PR

This get's my vote.

[havingfitz]

my rationale on Trasncend directly

What was this again?

[havingfitz]

Also, we're at a point where some confirmed town would be really useful. If two PRs are left, we have at least two confirmed town (more, if there's a cop?). If we mislynch today, we're in lylo tomorrow, and I don't have a lot of faith in our/your [if I'm dead] collective scumhunting abilities. I realize that if we out both PR's, one is a guaranteed target tonight. The other tomorrow night. But if we can use the information productively, we may not even need to have a tomorrow night, so there's that.

I'm thinking an organized claim, starting with the most likely scum player claiming first, on through the least scummy.

I'd like specific claims for this reason: if we do "PR", "VT", it makes gambitting easier with a vague PR, That leaves them gladiating, and we're using our aforementioned less-than-great collective scum hunting skills, and we increase the risk of lynching a non-charismatic PR.

I was kind of waiting to see if someone would suggest this. I was thinking the same thing. Dropping the suspect pool down to 5 players and claiming before LYLO...while we still have time to absorb a mislynch if we get a fakeclaim wrong...would be ideal IMO.

[havingfitz]

everyone knows my role anyway :3

Where did you claim?

[havingfitz]

I'll claim if ProHawk claims next after me.

[havingfitz]

I'm a PR.

[havingfitz]

claim once you click on this thread next regardless of who’s claimed before you.

This sounds good wrt to any of the three remaining unclaimed players.

[havingfitz]

Decisions decisions... will scum fakeclaim or not.

C'mon Pro....claim.

[havingfitz]

Hmmm...and then there were 2.

Cmon boring and Fishy.

[havingfitz]

Might be awhile as boring tends to post in the mid to late PM (est) timeframe and Fish is awol.

[havingfitz]

UNVOTE:

Watcher or IC. I assume that if you were a cop you’d have roleclaimed with a result by now.

The what only becomes important if the last two claims are PR.

[havingfitz]

A Fish sighting!!!!

Well there you have it. 5 VT claims leave the other two (me and boring) as confirmed town.

Here is your lynch pool:

ProHawk
Kelbris
Deasvail
mutant
Fish

Two of these are scum...woot woot.

ATTN boring!!!!

OK...on our roles. I don't think boring and I have any reason to out our roles today. Maybe we could give results for each role we might be so that in the event one of us is killed tonight at least town will know our results.

I'll go first since boring is probably a few hours away from posting.

And since I do not know what boring is...I'll claim all three of the most likely PRs in the game (assuming no vigs).

- I'm the IC. I'll have the mod confirm me tomorrow if anyone cares.

- I'm the tracker. I tracked Yuria N1 and he visited Transcend. I visited boring N2 and mutant last night...neither of them went anywhere but this only a 50% confirmation of their innocence (i.e. not confirmed town).

- I'm the 1-shot cop. I investigated Ecto N1 and he was innocent.

You're up boring.

[havingfitz]

Pending the potential results from whatever role boring has, I will say that I think my frontrunner for suspicion is Deasvail....

Some harmless votes on the UCV slot D1 (along with ProHawk) and the only non-confirmed town who was off the UCV lynch. And while the UCV lynch had some good traction Deas chose to put a second vote on boring rather than a 5th vote on UCV. This despite scumreading the UCV slot D1 and having them second to Ecto in their initial D2 scumread. (985) Also...post 1213 in response to Luca Bright's suspicions wrt protecting UCV.

pre-boring claim

FOS Deasvail

[havingfitz]

Also, Fitz, those were just examples, right? because if they're supposed to be actual results, they conveniently only reveal the alignments of already revealed players...

Whoever the other townie is needs to claim like I did so scum can pick between us tonight.

One of my claims is not an example.

[havingfitz]

Well, I am sorry but I gotta go V/LA for the next 2 days (AEST), going to be at the country teams chess tourney.

Give some reads first. Who's scum? Who do you lean towards voting?

[havingfitz]

Here is your lynch pool:

ProHawk
Kelbris
Deasvail
boring
Fish

Two of these are scum...woot woot.

fixed.

Ok...so looks like I need to lower sr on ProHawk based on mutant's potential pr results. Bleh.

Now that the claim dust has settled ...who's scum folks?

[havingfitz]

I don’t have the time to devote the thought that I want to devote to this right now. Hopefully I’ll get some time after work tonight if I’m not too tired.

Well..we have 11 days.

No thoughts on anything before you vanish for some tbd amount of time?

[havingfitz]

Bleh...I'm here.

@kelbris and Deasvail - if either mutant or I are the tracker boring went nowhere N2. So his chance of being scum is cut by half-ish.

[havingfitz]

1. Why ask?
2. His chances of being scum are less than people not potentially tracked.
Who's your second most suspect?
Boring can be sorted tomorrow after PRs are known.

[havingfitz]

VOTE: Kelbris

I'm now scum for him...

So omgus on kelbris?

[havingfitz]

Just throwing this out there:

The scum decided not to attempt to fake claim a PR, so I think we can conclude that they are not really risk takers.

Why risk a confirmed scum kill in the next 1 or 2 lynches when as it stands...town could mislynch twice for a loss.

[havingfitz]

But his enthusiasm would have been hard to fake.

Any perceived enthusiasm was unintentional.

[havingfitz]

VOTE: Kelbris

I'm now scum for him...

Who would be your alternate to a kelbris lynch?

[havingfitz]

Still suspect DV. His faux-hammered parting post didn't diminish that.
If mutant didn't have a clear on ProHawk he'd be in my top 3 sr.
I'm wavering in Kelbris suspicions...coinflip between boring and Fish if Pro (via pr ~cleared) or DV aren't scum.

[havingfitz]

Not really. I hadn't considered them.

[havingfitz]

I agree no rush to hammer.

I don't see any sucking up. I do see people asking for thoughts from confirmed town, which is nice to have.

I would like a chance to look over the non-prs one last time and give reads before anyone hammers. Can probably be done nlt tomorrow.

[havingfitz]

I'm slightly wary of fitz and mutant giving reads on players they have possible information on.

I'll factor claims in. boring is only slightly cleared by mine and mutant's claimed tracks on her N2.

And I'll give my view on ProHawk which can be digested for relevence tomorrow.

mutant has no reason to assess ProHawk as he "might" have a clear track OR investigation on him.

[havingfitz]

*waits patiently for Fitz's scum-case on me*

You're low on my list given mutant's results.

[havingfitz]

I haven't had a chance to get to this today. RL. Sorry. If I get time over the weekend I will give better reads.

[havingfitz]

I haven't had a chance to get to this today. RL. Sorry. If I get time over the weekend I will give better reads.

If you conclude that DV is top of your scum lists then please don't hammer him yet because I want everyone else's reads on everyone first.

I'll wait.

[havingfitz]

Mutant...what are your reads on DV and Kelbris?

[havingfitz]

Good morning mutant.

[havingfitz]

I don't think it's going to shift to anyone else. A hammer on DV is probably inevitable. I don't have super strong sr's on anyone so he's as good as any alternative. Holiday and work/rl conflicts have slowed me down the last week or so. Sorry.

Good luck mutant if you survive and get a pr action off (i.e. track).
I'll try to track someone good as well if able and give some useful results.

[havingfitz]

Awesome job boring/town.

Good job fish making it difficult.

Thanks for modding the game mod.

Great game.