Open 707 - JK9++ [Endgame]

[Almost50]

@Kop: Regarding the 3rd paragraph in #322, the idea was/is not for the Hider to claim. The idea is id they DIE over night we would know who they targeted and if that person isn't also dead there's a great chance they're scum.

[Mathdino]

For some reason I had it in my mind that A50 started the "Lynch Creature" idea. Now that I see he only started advocating that after the idea was presented, that definitely blows some of his towncred. So touche on that.

I agree with most of the reasons of why Red is scum, and Creature is there because not only is his RVS vote still on me after all this time, his only relevant comment recently was answering Math's general question to everyone in one sentence only after Dino shit on me for saying "none", he didn't want the same thing and just said it to say he was there.

That said, this is half OMGUS. Not the most substantial thing and you only came up with it after we started pressuring you to come up with reads. You can squeeze original ideas out of any player, town or scum, with enough votes.

So continuing to threaten Jay with a lynch actually has a lot of utility in my mind.

[Kop]

Quick thing, I picked fitz first and I encouraged everyone to pick different hider targets so it wouldn't draw the NK to any one person in particular.

Impede case isn't bad. It's convinced me out of a townread. Hasn't convinced me into a scumread. I see a lot of flak for his interaction with Jay, which I actually like. Seems natural to me.

I understand that point on what your trying to make, but from my understanding, it would be useful if they went with there feels, rather than 'oh he's took him, I'll take someone else'. That way I can see what they are feeling and not going with the flow of the game.

I chose mine, without even looking at others, and went with what I feel I would have done if this were the real case.

[Kop]

@Kop: Regarding the 3rd paragraph in #322, the idea was/is not for the Hider to claim. The idea is id they DIE over night we would know who they targeted and if that person isn't also dead there's a great chance they're scum.

I wouldn't want the hider to claim. I've played the hider role before and never claimed, I only claimed hider because I was hard pressed and someone worked out what I was, but the person that worked it out was scum, so it's a good chance he shot me believing I was something else and he wanted the credit.

[Kop]

@Jay, Creature is null for me. I've played with Creature a few times, and in most of them, he wasn't entirely active so it's hard for me to get a lock on read on him. It's 50/50 if I was to vote for him to be the next lynch. Unless he shows me a sign that he is scum, I will act upon it.

[Kop]

Quick thing, I picked fitz first and I encouraged everyone to pick different hider targets so it wouldn't draw the NK to any one person in particular.

Impede case isn't bad. It's convinced me out of a townread. Hasn't convinced me into a scumread. I see a lot of flak for his interaction with Jay, which I actually like. Seems natural to me.

How do you read Impede right now?

I understand you have your sights set on Jay, and I do agree with you with what you are saying, but personally I'd rather go for someone who can give us more information going into day two so we can get a stronger read on others, I feel lynching Jay on day one, isn't going to give us anything and reads won't be as strong as they would by lynching someone who gives us more. Jay will never be shot, so that is going to obviously be in the back of everyones mind and someone we don't want in LYLO, but he can easily be done on day 2 or 3 if we aren't further forward in lynching scum.

[JaydragonKing]

I've legit already made it to LyLo in one complete game already, if you must know, Kop. And that one time I did, I won as scum. I will be a wonderful addition to LyLo.

You should only worry about me when there is NO active suspicion on me. That's when shit seems to be going scums way, regardless of me being scum or not.

[Mathdino]

I understand that point on what your trying to make, but from my understanding, it would be useful if they went with there feels, rather than 'oh he's took him, I'll take someone else'. That way I can see what they are feeling and not going with the flow of the game.

I chose mine, without even looking at others, and went with what I feel I would have done if this were the real case.

I understand your point too (still disagree, but I get it). I wasn't really intending to read into people's hider choices. That was a process of optimising nightplay, not dayplay. As it is, since everyone's already picked, I don't see much utility in going back and repicking. And to have people swap their hider picks would just draw the NK to them because it only matters if they're actually the hider.

[Mathdino]

Quick thing, I picked fitz first and I encouraged everyone to pick different hider targets so it wouldn't draw the NK to any one person in particular.

Impede case isn't bad. It's convinced me out of a townread. Hasn't convinced me into a scumread. I see a lot of flak for his interaction with Jay, which I actually like. Seems natural to me.

How do you read Impede right now?

I understand you have your sights set on Jay, and I do agree with you with what you are saying, but personally I'd rather go for someone who can give us more information going into day two so we can get a stronger read on others, I feel lynching Jay on day one, isn't going to give us anything and reads won't be as strong as they would by lynching someone who gives us more. Jay will never be shot, so that is going to obviously be in the back of everyones mind and someone we don't want in LYLO, but he can easily be done on day 2 or 3 if we aren't further forward in lynching scum.

Holy fuck dude I was just about to make a post agreeing with you and then I saw this bullshit:

I've legit already made it to LyLo in one complete game already, if you must know, Kop. And that one time I did, I won as scum. I will be a wonderful addition to LyLo.

You should only worry about me when there is NO active suspicion on me. That's when shit seems to be going scums way, regardless of me being scum or not.

"I've won as scum in LyLo so I'll be great when the time comes". This is half a threat, and literally just proves to me that he's ok at not getting lynched. Also didn't you replace into that game?

Anyway I don't townread Impede enough to oppose his lynch, but I don't scumread him enough to really push or care for the lynch like I do with RedFlavor.

I have enough material for another ISO-based reads list on everyone but Assemble, so expect that.

[Impede]

Hey all... Catching up.

... Can I at least get your reason for your vote now, Impede?

See below:

My town read comes from my earlier conversation with Kop, because he didn't just drag me through the dirt more for making a mistake and isn't advocating "policy Lynch" like Dino every other post. His posts also seem like a town agenda to me. Likewise with Momo, but particularly because of his annoyance with the multi-votes and my gut agreeing that he's townie.

These are purely self-interested reads.

The almost town is have big moments in the game so far and honestly seem to want too find scum. They're the leans.

The Nulls is due to Una not being around recently and Assemble not being here period. Fits vote on me honestly can make a little bit of sense with his reasoning, and your currently moving your way up to townlean, Impede.

Giving Fitz some credit here seems contrived... like you're trying to throw us off the scent that all your reads are OMGUS. The nod to me also seems a bit like buddying, but idk, maybe you actually have a reason for this

I agree with most of the reasons of why Red is scum, and Creature is there because not only is his RVS vote still on me after all this time, his only relevant comment recently was answering Math's general question to everyone in one sentence only after Dino shit on me for saying "none", he didn't want the same thing and just said it to say he was there.

Red was an easy out for you and your response was an easy one too. "Agree with most" is a very safe phrasing here. The RVS vote thing with Creature is pretty weak. So is the activity assessment without making any mention that it would basically be a PL

As for Dino? I'm not even going to try to read him right now because, like you said, the fustration and his constant shitting on anything I do makes me want to Lynch him for no other reason then to just increase my enjoyment of the game. But not only is that hurtful to town, it also is just going to make me look worse. I want to actually contribute nicely, but I decided to also be a shithead and post my reads the way I did if for no other reason then to annoy him.

You admit here that you are in OMGUS territory. This is actually a bit refreshing, because up until now I wasn't positive you were self-aware. However, it's concerning because it means that you know your anti-town behavior is anti-town.

Sheep has literally changed his mind Instantly after saying things twice. His name is accurate. He doesn't seem like he wants to help town but instead get rid of whoever someone else wants to get rid of, probably to get on their good side.

This smells like OMGUS as well. It's so redundant at this point though that it almost comes off like VI behavior. Which doesn't really dissuade my vote much tbh because, as stated previously, I love me a policy lynch.

Answering your first question, Impede: Yeah, I say Creature is a possible choice as Scum. I say he should be put towards the center of attention now to see what he does.

VOTE: Creature

It's a weird top scumread to have and definitely don't agree with your rationale, but trying to wagon Creature is actually town-productive here

All that to say, you managed to push me more towards scum/PL territory with that post than towards town whose play might improve.

[Creature]

They look more like VIs and easy mislynches for me.

And ironically they are both voting you.

VIs.

[Impede]

Idea of Una-scum is crazy. He hasn't convinced me on his reads yet but he's definitely convinced me on his alignment.

A point in A50's favour is that he redirected the whole game to suddenly focus on a budding Creature wagon, which seems to consist solely of scummy players. I don't see the scum motivation yet.

I could strong-scumread A50 later but he's not a good D1 lynch.

For D1 lynches I like lynching players that the consensus agrees are too scummy to stay in the game or read properly for the rest of the game. The players that'll continue being on everyone's lynchlists until we do the deed. Not the players that are clearly contributing new/original ideas. Even if they're scum, they're helping us in the meantime by giving us more material to analyse later.

A50 and Hawk are in that boat (fitz too but less so since I'm townreading him); I could scumread them, and I'm having serious trouble reading them now, but that's D1 syndrome. When players like that are scum, I usually catch them D2.

Gimme a different scumread to work with.

Bookmarking this. This is fence-sitty enough on A50 to suggest an associative read if we get a scumflip on either him or Math.

D1 lynch rationale is nice though, but scum could just as easily post this.

[Impede]

like lynches in red/jay

Strange, both feel like mislynches.

They look more like VIs and easy mislynches for me.

They look more like VIs and easy mislynches for me.

And ironically they are both voting you.

VIs.

This is mostly worthless without meta to go off of. You can't vouch for what would be ML bait vs scum behavior in someone without some sort of baseline. I can appreciate that this is probably just a gut feel you have, but you can't expect anyone else to get behind it unless you actually have something of substance to present.

[sheepsaysmeep]

331 is more scumclaim than vi

[JaydragonKing]

Calling us Village Idiots is not something that will make either of our votes move off of you, Creature. It does the opposite, in fact. That is also dismissive as all hell towards any suspicion on you.

[sheepsaysmeep]

he's literally calling you a villager
i dont think he expected it to take your votes off, and i dont see why it's a reason for you to keep your vote there

[Impede]

They look more like VIs and easy mislynches for me.

Listen to you. You're making no cases, no effort to sort anyone. You're not voting, and you're defending whoever the majority thinks maybe good lynches w/o giving any rational reason for it nor providing an alternative.

Now I acknowledge I have seen you do this as Town too, but I'm not even getting that sinking feeling you're Town here.

Like why do you think I picked YOU as my hypothetical target if I was Hider?

This is wolfy. I could see this being town trying to pressure a scumread, but it comes off as contrived.

[sheepsaysmeep]

^ i like that post

[Impede]

Calling us Village Idiots is not something that will make either of our votes move off of you, Creature. It does the opposite, in fact. That is also dismissive as all hell towards any suspicion on you.

Such a weird post. You have this perception that this entire game revolves around your own survival (and by extension, so does everyone else's gameplay). You really need to drop this. His calling you VIs is not an attempt to get you to unvote... that's not a sensible playstyle. It's an attempt to express HIS belief that you are town. THIS is why you are getting scumread dude. You aren't prioritizing gamesolving over your own survival and it makes it really hard to want you alive during a more critical gamestate.

[JaydragonKing]

Sheep, please go to the mafiascum wiki and look up VI. In fact, I'm just saying it now. It means Village Idiot. Do you think 335 that his "VIs" mean villagers? Use context, bud.

--- Post Edit ---

I'm going out of my way to point out suspicious behaviour yet now your also saying it's just because I'm looking for survival. Also dismissive.

Also, him calling us Village Idiots ≠ he thinks we're Town. It means he's dismissing us as actual players and is also trying to make it so you just leave him alone.

[Almost50]

They look more like VIs and easy mislynches for me.

Listen to you. You're making no cases, no effort to sort anyone. You're not voting, and you're defending whoever the majority thinks maybe good lynches w/o giving any rational reason for it nor providing an alternative.

Now I acknowledge I have seen you do this as Town too, but I'm not even getting that sinking feeling you're Town here.

Like why do you think I picked YOU as my hypothetical target if I was Hider?

This is wolfy. I could see this being town trying to pressure a scumread, but it comes off as contrived.

You know what? I've just sneezed AND coughed. I bet "now you could see it being Town catching a cold", but it would still comes off as scummy sneezing/coughing to you. Right? Right!

[sheepsaysmeep]

Sheep, please go to the mafiascum wiki and look up VI. In fact, I'm just saying it now. It means Village Idiot. Do you think 335 that his "VIs" mean villagers? Use context, bud.

--- Post Edit ---

I'm going out of my way to point out suspicious behaviour yet now your also saying it's just because I'm looking for survival. Also dismissive.

Also, him calling us Village Idiots ≠ he thinks we're Town. It means he's dismissing us as actual players and is also trying to make it so you just leave him alone.

holy shit
village idiot is villager
he thinks youre town

[sheepsaysmeep]

i think
or am i stupid

[Impede]

They look more like VIs and easy mislynches for me.

Listen to you. You're making no cases, no effort to sort anyone. You're not voting, and you're defending whoever the majority thinks maybe good lynches w/o giving any rational reason for it nor providing an alternative.

Now I acknowledge I have seen you do this as Town too, but I'm not even getting that sinking feeling you're Town here.

Like why do you think I picked YOU as my hypothetical target if I was Hider?

This is wolfy. I could see this being town trying to pressure a scumread, but it comes off as contrived.

You know what? I've just sneezed AND coughed. I bet "now you could see it being Town catching a cold", but it would still comes off as scummy sneezing/coughing to you. Right? Right!

I didn't hear you sneeze and cough, so it's hard to say. I do hear a lot of "woof woof" though.

[Impede]

Sheep, please go to the mafiascum wiki and look up VI. In fact, I'm just saying it now. It means Village Idiot. Do you think 335 that his "VIs" mean villagers? Use context, bud.

--- Post Edit ---

I'm going out of my way to point out suspicious behaviour yet now your also saying it's just because I'm looking for survival. Also dismissive.

Also, him calling us Village Idiots ≠ he thinks we're Town. It means he's dismissing us as actual players and is also trying to make it so you just leave him alone.

holy shit
village idiot is villager
he thinks youre town

i think
or am i stupid

I read it as Village Idiot. Which I don't actually associate to a role, more to the concept of someone who is newbtown/ML bait.