Open 706: C9++

[davesaz]

If you think a little, that can

only

be a townie reaction.
Hint: what alignment makes shit up? What alignment is best served with the truth?

[CheekyTeeky]

If you think a little, that can

only

be a townie reaction.
Hint: what alignment makes shit up? What alignment is best served with the truth?

*uses the force on dave*

What alignment doesn't give a shit about trying to sort players?

[cytheflyguy]

If you think a little, that can

only

be a townie reaction.
Hint: what alignment makes shit up? What alignment is best served with the truth?

If you think a little, that can

only

be a townie reaction.
Hint: what alignment makes shit up? What alignment is best served with the truth?

*uses the force on dave*

What alignment doesn't give a shit about trying to sort players?

Think about it. What is easier as scum? Making something up even tho you know something else to be true or pretending like you know nothing so no one can hold you accountable for anything. Town can certainly not give fucks, don't get me wrong, but they also tend to try and find discrepancies as well. Like there's been this huge timegap of you saying you keep on not knowing anything/having light passive reads. You've made some valid posts, don't get me wrong, but like I have to give you a FoS for this, my dude.

[cytheflyguy]

Oh my god I think I know who vig is. The only question is if they're a 1 shot of have more of them...

The town flip we got from lynching serves me nothing yet because he's barely posted and everyone had reason to lynch him...

Now we just have to figure out who out of the two that fitz killed, because that would mean that scum would have had to kill the other person and we can look to who had the most likely motivation to kill that person. I mean, of course, I think it's possible that someone rb'ed fitz and then there were were two vigs but I don't think that this set up allows that? Idk I'm too lazy to open another tab. Honestly, I feel that out of the two of them, fitz killed North.

Now, it's the point of any killing role to kill the person who is the biggest threat to you, ie the most townie person or the person who's the most to push for your lynch. North called him out in 229 and in 291, fitz was all like "Wtf tone". That's all I got on his thoughts on either player. With not much to go off of, I doubt that fitz would kill someone whom he stated he questioned their town cred and would rather kill the person who called him out as scum.

Now with that, we can assume scum killed tonereader. Now we must find out who had the biggest motivation to kill them and start from there.

Holy shit can I not understand any of their meaning in anything. I would have loved to do some sort of Phoenix Wright type shit, but I maybe could in another post. I'll have to take some time to read into whatever they meant.

[Elmo TeH AzN]

Now with that, we can assume scum killed tonereader. Now we must find out who had the biggest motivation to kill them and start from there.

Just a curiosity question and I need to read but you don't think he wouldn't kill tone due to the annoyance factor?

[davesaz]

North also pushed Schism, and one SK play is to kill someone you can plausibly have wanted to vig, in order to be able to claim that in a massclaim.

[davesaz]

If you think a little, that can

only

be a townie reaction.
Hint: what alignment makes shit up? What alignment is best served with the truth?

If you think a little, that can

only

be a townie reaction.
Hint: what alignment makes shit up? What alignment is best served with the truth?

*uses the force on dave*

What alignment doesn't give a shit about trying to sort players?

Think about it. What is easier as scum? Making something up even tho you know something else to be true or pretending like you know nothing so no one can hold you accountable for anything. Town can certainly not give fucks, don't get me wrong, but they also tend to try and find discrepancies as well. Like there's been this huge timegap of you saying you keep on not knowing anything/having light passive reads. You've made some valid posts, don't get me wrong, but like I have to give you a FoS for this, my dude.

Maybe you'd like to re-read your D1 and tell us who else didn't give much in the way of reads?

[davesaz]

the holidays may have affected his play

[Almost Chara]

Oh my god I think I know who vig is.

Is it not obvious enough that >I< am the Vig??

~A50

[davesaz]

Assemble is the best candidate if we want to know who tone would be a threat to.
Mafia could make a framing kill if they had no obvious threats.
If the mafia kill was north then schism is a good candidate.
If mafia killed fits and vig was tone then it would have to be because mafia thought fitz would be widely townreads.
That’s all based on nka which is easier on mobile given quoting isn’t as necessary. Picking apart the thread will require a comp.

[davesaz]

Correction... I forgot to look at who fitz would be a threat to so a mafia kill might result in a suspect. Gotta look more later.

[Jodaxq]

Assemble is the best candidate if we want to know who tone would be a threat to.
Mafia could make a framing kill if they had no obvious threats.
If the mafia kill was north then schism is a good candidate.
If mafia killed fits and vig was tone then it would have to be because mafia thought fitz would be widely townreads.
That’s all based on nka which is easier on mobile given quoting isn’t as necessary. Picking apart the thread will require a comp.

I assume you mean Sleepless Assassin and not Assemble?

Fitz was the other wagon yesterday. I doubt mafia hit him.

Would the SK kill go through the same night as his death? If Fitz did get a kill off I would have assumed it was Tone since he seemed very against her gimmick.

[davesaz]

Hmm, lemme look. Don't know if I got the names confused, or if it's correct names but a dead end.

I agree, but tinfoil is what it is. Generally it's ok to accept most likely hypothesis but don't discard the unlikely ones prior to some form of confirmation.

I think under NAR all kills that don't get intercepted earlier in resolution are simultaneous.

[davesaz]

Name confusion, thanks. Clearly Assassin, not Assemble.

[davesaz]

I think Sleepless Assassin's posting looks pretty towny, though I don't remember much meta here and it could be fake.

So a mafia kill on Tone out of fear looks unlikely, and I'm leaning towards Fitz killing there to be able to claim vig. A vig killing North would be pretty bad. So the most likely kill assignment is mafia on North, Fitz on Tone, and vig on Fitz. The only other combination that comes close to making sense is Fitz on North, Mafia on Tone, and vig on Fitz, but that requires mafia to kill someone who isn't openly townread by many people -- and it leads us nowhere anyway.

I think that I'd better stop, or I'm likely to tunnel on the NKA and while useful it's not sufficient to solve things on its own.

[momo]

Would the SK kill go through the same night as his death? If Fitz did get a kill off I would have assumed it was Tone since he seemed very against her gimmick.

For all those that were wondering, all kills are processed at the exact same time...this means that players who die that night can still kill someone.

[Jodaxq]

I think Sleepless Assassin's posting looks pretty towny, though I don't remember much meta here and it could be fake.

So a mafia kill on Tone out of fear looks unlikely, and I'm leaning towards Fitz killing there to be able to claim vig. A vig killing North would be pretty bad. So the most likely kill assignment is mafia on North, Fitz on Tone, and vig on Fitz. The only other combination that comes close to making sense is Fitz on North, Mafia on Tone, and vig on Fitz, but that requires mafia to kill someone who isn't openly townread by many people -- and it leads us nowhere anyway.

I think that I'd better stop, or I'm likely to tunnel on the NKA and while useful it's not sufficient to solve things on its own.

I disagree about Assassin. I think his posting feels really fake.

I agree it was likely mafia on NSG, Fitz on Tone, vig on Fitz.

[Sleepless Assassin]

Cheeky, we are on the same page as far as Elmo who you and I are both voting so I'm satisfied with that for now if you are. Like I said, that post 403 after our votes was just bad.

I want to echo what jod said about cy. I'd love to see more from him to get a better read on him. He made a few posts about himself that felt very transparent so I've had him I. The back of my mind as a town read but I'd like a better idea of where his head is at.

Is the case on Dave anything that can't be explained by him being busy during the holidays? Because that's pretty much what I get out of it. I have personally struggled to get any kind of read on him at all. I also agree that if he was scum, it makes more sense for him to just make up some reads when asked for them or at least say he'll re-read to figure it out or something. So yeah "I got nothing" sounds more town than scum (sorry cheeky lol).

I disagree about Assassin. I think his posting feels really fake.

Ouch.

[davesaz]

I disagree about Assassin. I think his posting feels really fake.

Is this based on positions he has taken, or more a tone thing? If you can point to something specific it will help.

[CheekyTeeky]

What are people's thoughts on schism? I get the feeling they're buddying up to the IC a little too hard for my liking.

[CheekyTeeky]

Is the case on Dave anything that can't be explained by him being busy during the holidays?

What content he has contributed is bothering me, not so much the lack of it. I can't find townie intent in his posts which leads me to believe it's because he's not town. Lack of reads is fine but the lack of pushes and insight is not. I would say he's improved since my vote on him but when I read his NKA posts, even though I agree with them, I still find hedging against making any kind of solid read. Like he says x implicates y because z which is awesome and supertown but then he goes oh wait I can't use solely NKA to get my reads and leaves it there. I believe town would then make some kind of attempt to sort those slots he just PoE'd down by digging through ISOs or even just stating he suspects those people are scum. Instead I'm left with what looks like scum positioning, leaving a wide lynching range open without committing to suspeced scum reads.

[davesaz]

That’s called posting when I have time to the extent that I have the time for.

[davesaz]

Hell yeah, Schism is probably scum.
Check out this interaction. I'll spoiler to cut down on the vertical space.

Spoiler: northsidegal/Schism

Excluding IC and Myself:

Dave
Tone
Cy
Fitz
Voyc
Joda
------------------- Lynch Line
North (V/LA, probably safe for D1)
Chip
Elmo
Assemble
Assassin

why is fitz so high on the list? is it really just this?

People that talk about the randomness of RVS tend to be town, I read it as TvT. If anything, Joda would move down a peg if you want to argue its TvS, but right now I have Fitzy in my townreads for it.

why is voyc above joda and above the line? why am i below the line?

Everyone above you I have reads on.

Despite the RVS vote, I still stand with the fact that everyone on Assassin is town. I think the vote may be serious now since it hasn't been changed. My opinion of Joda dropped a little while I was writing up #172, because if you think Fitz/Joda was TvS, you should be looking at Joda first. I still think its TvT but I reserve to change that opinion if my reads on Assassin/Assemble are off.

by the way, retracting my meta-read on cy, even if it still leaves him as a slight townlean. he just finished a game as scum that definitely went against what i expected, so i'll have to look out more than i thought.

pedit:

Everyone above you I have reads on.

Despite the RVS vote, I still stand with the fact that everyone on Assassin is town. I think the vote may be serious now since it hasn't been changed. My opinion of Joda dropped a little while I was writing up #172, because if you think Fitz/Joda was TvS, you should be looking at Joda first. I still think its TvT but I reserve to change that opinion if my reads on Assassin/Assemble are off.

you don't have a read on me but you have a read on voyc?

Despite the RVS vote, I still stand with the fact that everyone on Assassin is town. I think the vote may be serious now since it hasn't been changed. My opinion of Joda dropped a little while I was writing up #172, because if you think Fitz/Joda was TvS, you should be looking at Joda first. I still think its TvT but I reserve to change that opinion if my reads on Assassin/Assemble are off.

you don't have a read on me but you have a read on voyc?

Chara Town for First Vote, Elmo Scummy for copying, Assassin Scum

Well shit, I see I made another typo...

North, do you notice it?[/quote]

you meant me instead of chara for the first vote?

Dave
Tone
Cy
Fitz

North (V/LA, probably safe for D1)

Voyc
Joda
------------------- Lynch Line
Chip
Elmo
Assemble
Assassin

Maybe we could move the line to Joda, but right now I want to hear from Assemble/Assassin.

P-Edit: Not really. I think you are thinking too hard about the placement of individual players above the line. I literally spaced you out for some reason. I guess your V/LA made you invisible to me

Look, I get my reads based off slight reads during and after RVS. It helps me establish reads early so I can focus on targets rather than the entire gamestate. Once we get some kills I can go back and review my reads.

I think north caught Schism here and that's what drove the kill selection.
Need to go back to reading Schism's iso to see how the rest of it went.

[CheekyTeeky]

Hell yeah, Schism is probably scum.
Check out this interaction. I'll spoiler to cut down on the vertical space.

(Snip)

I think north caught Schism here and that's what drove the kill selection.
Need to go back to reading Schism's iso to see how the rest of it went.

Yeah if you look closely at Schism's 176:

"Despite the RVS vote, I still stand with the fact that everyone on Assassin is town."

The RVS vote on the IC was the only reason Schism scumread Assassin that I can see in their ISO, but Schism is trying to maintain a scumread despite the intial shallow logic through even shakier logic that if all players on a wagon are town then the wagonee must be scum.

I also really dislike the fake conf. bias when they say all the people are town which includes themself. I've seen this tactic, to create a pre-infiltrated townbloc, used by scum before.

Other points of concern are the reads on the list with no interaction or indication why, like Dave and cy. It looks like schism copied and slightly altered AC's readslist with how Dave is left at the top. There is almost no interaction between Cy and schism, yet Cy is one of her top town reads.

I think Jo already asked schism about the placement of Dave on the list and I couldn't see a response in Schism's ISO.

@AC @Schism
Why did you TR Dave?

[davesaz]

Your insistence in being suspicious of me seems town in this context.