Open 706: C9++

[CheekyTeeky]

To be honest if my suspicions are correct about schism then I'm more worried about the Cy read then their read on you Dave.

[Almost Chara]

@AC @Schism
Why did you TR Dave?

I don't think I did, but Chara did. I mean, I can vaguely remember any details about this game, but I seem to recall saying something along the lines "dave is playing like he did when he was the SK in a previous run of this very same setup".

You also asked earlier about whey we flipped our read on Schism from Scum to Town. It mostly had to do with Chara tone reading him, and I eventually had to agree. (As you probably know by now I'm the more analytic head here and I also come up with all the wild theories. Chara is the sane head and is the one who can read the tone of the players posts). So, Chara read Schism as Town first and it took me some time to realize they were probably correct.

Note: I mainly suspected dave to be the SK. I don't know how I feel about him after fitz flipped SK.

Finally, could you please try to ISO the living players? I'd be more interested in a read list from you than most. Can you do that sometime, please?

~A50

[Sleepless Assassin]

What are people's thoughts on schism? I get the feeling they're buddying up to the IC a little too hard for my liking.

I could see it. He's probably my third choice behind Elmo and Chip.

__________________

Cheeky, a few things with your post 445:

I can't find townie intent in his posts which leads me to believe it's because he's not town

Lack of town intent doesn't mean scum intent. We saw this already with Assemble. It's a very common leap in logic, but not usually a correct one.

Lack of reads is fine but the lack of pushes and insight is not.

If he's lacking reads, what do you expect him to push? A better bet would be waiting for his activity in general to pick up and seeing if that changes.

when I read his NKA posts, even though I agree with them, I still find hedging against making any kind of solid read. Like he says x implicates y because z which is awesome and supertown but then he goes oh wait I can't use solely NKA to get my reads and leaves it there.

He's not wrong though. NKA is just so full of a number of WIFOM scenarios that while it CAN be used, it shouldn't be the sole reason for any reads. Anything that implicates someone could be scum attempting to frame that person. Or scum could have killed someone for just being widely town read without taking that person's reads into consideration. Or they could have killed a player who is town reading them but showed in a past game they are good at reading them. Or they could have replaced in, not read up, got no posts from their scum partners, and just picked someone. There are just too many unknown variables and possibilities to base your reads on it.

Instead I'm left with what looks like scum positioning, leaving a wide lynching range open without committing to suspeced scum reads.

Or a guy who was busy during the holiday season, didn't really get a chance to do a ton Day 1, and tried to get into the game Day 2 by looking at the NKs. He could still be scum, but I don't see a case here.

[CheekyTeeky]

Fine I concede SA. But if at any point Dave flips scum then you're my first suspect as buddy.

VOTE: Schism

@AC I still need to do Chip, Assassin and Jodaxq in more depth then the full list will be unveiled

[Sleepless Assassin]

That's fair for now.

[Almost Chara]

Fine I concede SA. But if at any point Dave flips scum then you're my first suspect as buddy.

VOTE: Schism

@AC I still need to do Chip, Assassin and Jodaxq in more depth then the full list will be unveiled

That's fine, but I'd also rather you not voting until you've finished your reading and we discussed things. We are 9 and we still have 3 Scums alive, so if 2 Townies vote the same person Scum could potentially hammer and then we would probably be at LyLo tomorrow. I know it's unlikely, but I'd rather be safe than sorry.

~A50

[CheekyTeeky]

Oh wth I didn't read the set-up properly. My bad.

UNVOTE: Schism

[Schism]

Thank you for joining, Cheeky.

I think I'll wait for Chip to say things before I have my say.

[Jodaxq]

I disagree about Assassin. I think his posting feels really fake.

Is this based on positions he has taken, or more a tone thing? If you can point to something specific it will help.

I think it's just mainly 400 that feels really forced to me. Like coming out and saying "hey we should be looking here and you can't tell me we shouldn't be looking here and yeah I know I was here too" just rubs me the wrong way.

[Jodaxq]

Oh my god I think I know who vig is. The only question is if they're a 1 shot of have more of them...

The town flip we got from lynching serves me nothing yet because he's barely posted and everyone had reason to lynch him...

Now we just have to figure out who out of the two that fitz killed, because that would mean that scum would have had to kill the other person and we can look to who had the most likely motivation to kill that person. I mean, of course, I think it's possible that someone rb'ed fitz and then there were were two vigs but I don't think that this set up allows that? Idk I'm too lazy to open another tab. Honestly, I feel that out of the two of them, fitz killed North.

Now, it's the point of any killing role to kill the person who is the biggest threat to you, ie the most townie person or the person who's the most to push for your lynch. North called him out in 229 and in 291, fitz was all like "Wtf tone". That's all I got on his thoughts on either player. With not much to go off of, I doubt that fitz would kill someone whom he stated he questioned their town cred and would rather kill the person who called him out as scum.

Now with that, we can assume scum killed tonereader. Now we must find out who had the biggest motivation to kill them and start from there.

Holy shit can I not understand any of their meaning in anything. I would have loved to do some sort of Phoenix Wright type shit, but I maybe could in another post. I'll have to take some time to read into whatever they meant.

I don't like this post. Not only did you reach an odd conclusion, but it feels like you're just talking about nothing.

[Sleepless Assassin]

I disagree about Assassin. I think his posting feels really fake.

Is this based on positions he has taken, or more a tone thing? If you can point to something specific it will help.

I think it's just mainly 400 that feels really forced to me. Like coming out and saying "hey we should be looking here and you can't tell me we shouldn't be looking here and yeah I know I was here too" just rubs me the wrong way.

Do you disagree with my logic? Because I stand by my statement that I'd be shocked if scum stayed off of that Lynch.

[Chip Butty]

Hi everyone,

I've been thinking about replacing out for real because of lack of time, but I'll see how things look over the next 24 hours or so. I'm hoping to be read up in that time. This will be my last MS game for a while due to time constraints imposed by RL.

[Schism]

I need to redo my reads.

While I led a lynch on town and defended the sk (is that scummy?), Id argue that I pushed a lynch on a guy who didnt do anything when town tried really hard to nl, so idk how you can see scumMe do that.

We need to look at late D1 reactions and how people saw the wagons.

[Sleepless Assassin]

Ugh please not another replacement.

[Schism]

Cheeky why am I maf.

More tomorrow

[davesaz]

Scumreads?

[Schism]

Votecount 1.9 #EndofD1

Finally, D1 has ended. By tomorrow, at least one of you will be gone. That's nice because some of you were getting on my nervves. (JKish)

Votes

Assemblerotws (5) tone, almost chara, schism, Sleepless Assasin​, Chip Butty, havingfitz, Elmo TeH AzN

LYNCH

havingfitz: (4) --- northsidegal, cytheflyguy, jod, Voyc
xXTonereaderXx: (1) --- davesaz

​Not voting: Assemblerotws​

I havent looked that much into this, but 1 mafia in Assemble lynch and 2 in Fitz/Tone.

We have to ask "why would mafia participate in a lynch when they could have lurked through the holidays?" (kinda like you did Dave!)

Chip's is still the most reluctant one* Elmo's seems town enough. Everyone else is a townread or revealed.

With Fitz flipping 3rd, Joda is officially on the scumdar, more on that later.
Cy's ignorance yesterday involving my self-vote and the gamestate could be perceived as town, tbh.
Voyc was town, the fitz vote and replace out seems bad, I need to look at it more.
The fact you were on within the last 48 hours prior to hammer and kept your vote on Tone is really really bad.

Ill go more in depth tomorrow, but I can not believe people think Im mafia. I organized a lynch with nearly no time on clock and was the most active player besides Hydra. There is no reason for me as scum to be that vocal to lynch someone that I could have saved for later as mislynch bait. I do not remember NSG being suspicious of me, and I doubt I was a cop investigation, but since NSG is dead, we'll never know.

This may change tomorrow, but for now: Chip > Dave > Joda >>>>>> Cy/Cheeky/Elmo

[Almost Chara]

FTR, I fully endorse Schism's lynch pool. I'd put Joda before dave though, but these are my 3 top SRs.

~A50

[Schism]

FTR, I fully endorse Schism's lynch pool. I'd put Joda before dave though, but these are my 3 top SRs.

~A50

(Unrelated note, Im sorry I told you to fuck off yesterday, probably over the line, you didnt deserve that)

[Almost50]

FTR, I fully endorse Schism's lynch pool. I'd put Joda before dave though, but these are my 3 top SRs.

~A50

(Unrelated note, Im sorry I told you to fuck off yesterday, probably over the line, you didnt deserve that)

Mo problem at all, my friend. We all get emotional in-game (God knows I'm guilty of it too), so I don't hold grudges over such trivial stuff.

[Elmo TeH AzN]

Dear Hydra - Quit confusing me.

[Almost Chara]

FTR, I fully endorse Schism's lynch pool. I'd put Joda before dave though, but these are my 3 top SRs.

~A50

(Unrelated note, Im sorry I told you to fuck off yesterday, probably over the line, you didnt deserve that)

Mo problem at all, my friend. We all get emotional in-game (God knows I'm guilty of it too), so I don't hold grudges over such trivial stuff.

Dear Hydra - Quit confusing me.

It's all me though today. Chara had to take some rest. (No, I didn't kill them, I swear. They're pop-up sometime soon.. I hope).

~A50

[cytheflyguy]

Now with that, we can assume scum killed tonereader. Now we must find out who had the biggest motivation to kill them and start from there.

Just a curiosity question and I need to read but you don't think he wouldn't kill tone due to the annoyance factor?

I mean yeah, but like if you're playing mafia, you're not killing people based off of who you like.

[cytheflyguy]

If you think a little, that can

only

be a townie reaction.
Hint: what alignment makes shit up? What alignment is best served with the truth?

If you think a little, that can

only

be a townie reaction.
Hint: what alignment makes shit up? What alignment is best served with the truth?

*uses the force on dave*

What alignment doesn't give a shit about trying to sort players?

Think about it. What is easier as scum? Making something up even tho you know something else to be true or pretending like you know nothing so no one can hold you accountable for anything. Town can certainly not give fucks, don't get me wrong, but they also tend to try and find discrepancies as well. Like there's been this huge timegap of you saying you keep on not knowing anything/having light passive reads. You've made some valid posts, don't get me wrong, but like I have to give you a FoS for this, my dude.

Maybe you'd like to re-read your D1 and tell us who else didn't give much in the way of reads?

There's a difference doe. It feels like you've kinda gave up? Like I don't see much actual scum hunting. Sure, you can say the same thing about me D1, but this is D2 and I'm trying to find scum here.

[cytheflyguy]

Hell yeah, Schism is probably scum.
Check out this interaction. I'll spoiler to cut down on the vertical space.

Spoiler: northsidegal/Schism

Excluding IC and Myself:

Dave
Tone
Cy
Fitz
Voyc
Joda
------------------- Lynch Line
North (V/LA, probably safe for D1)
Chip
Elmo
Assemble
Assassin

why is fitz so high on the list? is it really just this?

People that talk about the randomness of RVS tend to be town, I read it as TvT. If anything, Joda would move down a peg if you want to argue its TvS, but right now I have Fitzy in my townreads for it.

why is voyc above joda and above the line? why am i below the line?

Everyone above you I have reads on.

Despite the RVS vote, I still stand with the fact that everyone on Assassin is town. I think the vote may be serious now since it hasn't been changed. My opinion of Joda dropped a little while I was writing up #172, because if you think Fitz/Joda was TvS, you should be looking at Joda first. I still think its TvT but I reserve to change that opinion if my reads on Assassin/Assemble are off.

by the way, retracting my meta-read on cy, even if it still leaves him as a slight townlean. he just finished a game as scum that definitely went against what i expected, so i'll have to look out more than i thought.

pedit:

Everyone above you I have reads on.

Despite the RVS vote, I still stand with the fact that everyone on Assassin is town. I think the vote may be serious now since it hasn't been changed. My opinion of Joda dropped a little while I was writing up #172, because if you think Fitz/Joda was TvS, you should be looking at Joda first. I still think its TvT but I reserve to change that opinion if my reads on Assassin/Assemble are off.

you don't have a read on me but you have a read on voyc?

Despite the RVS vote, I still stand with the fact that everyone on Assassin is town. I think the vote may be serious now since it hasn't been changed. My opinion of Joda dropped a little while I was writing up #172, because if you think Fitz/Joda was TvS, you should be looking at Joda first. I still think its TvT but I reserve to change that opinion if my reads on Assassin/Assemble are off.

you don't have a read on me but you have a read on voyc?

Chara Town for First Vote, Elmo Scummy for copying, Assassin Scum

Well shit, I see I made another typo...

North, do you notice it?

you meant me instead of chara for the first vote?

Dave
Tone
Cy
Fitz

North (V/LA, probably safe for D1)

Voyc
Joda
------------------- Lynch Line
Chip
Elmo
Assemble
Assassin

Maybe we could move the line to Joda, but right now I want to hear from Assemble/Assassin.

P-Edit: Not really. I think you are thinking too hard about the placement of individual players above the line. I literally spaced you out for some reason. I guess your V/LA made you invisible to me

Look, I get my reads based off slight reads during and after RVS. It helps me establish reads early so I can focus on targets rather than the entire gamestate. Once we get some kills I can go back and review my reads.

[/spoiler]
I think north caught Schism here and that's what drove the kill selection.
Need to go back to reading Schism's iso to see how the rest of it went.[/quote]
I retract last post as I am now just seeing this.

Will respond directly after I finish reading.