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Post Post #14 (isolation #0) » Sun Dec 03, 2017 5:17 pm

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viewtopic.php?p=9778910#p9778910

Due to this I am going to try and play a little differently this game. Going for quality over quantity, in other words.
https://youtu.be/LRkYiRnRzY0

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Post Post #20 (isolation #1) » Sun Dec 03, 2017 6:02 pm

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In post 17, WhyMafia wrote:Hard claiming that I will be confirmed town tomorrow
Is that like a IC delayed until D2 or something?
https://youtu.be/LRkYiRnRzY0

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Post Post #88 (isolation #2) » Mon Dec 04, 2017 11:14 am

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OK, so some thoughts that have happened.

Thoughts on Espe:

Their claim could be a WIFOM move as Scum to keep people from talking about things that actually matter in the game. I've done similar things as Scum. That said, I know Espe is just coming back to Mafia after a long hiatus so it could just be that they are excited to get back into the game so it could just be that they want to stir things up.

Jay's unvote of Archwing is ??? same goes for Archwing's vote and unvote.
https://youtu.be/LRkYiRnRzY0

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Post Post #96 (isolation #3) » Mon Dec 04, 2017 11:32 am

Post by Quick »

In post 89, Espeonage wrote:To quick. Go check out newbie together and tell me that being a dick is alignment indicative for me.

And then yell at wingbro to engage with me
What is your point. I barely remember that game. Vedith won.

Being a dick is NAI.
https://youtu.be/LRkYiRnRzY0

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Post Post #110 (isolation #4) » Mon Dec 04, 2017 12:07 pm

Post by Quick »

In post 98, Espeonage wrote:
In post 96, Quick wrote:
In post 89, Espeonage wrote:To quick. Go check out newbie together and tell me that being a dick is alignment indicative for me.

And then yell at wingbro to engage with me
What is your point. I barely remember that game. Vedith won.

Being a dick is NAI.
Not that one. The one where I was Doc and broke the game and made Nacho vote himself.
What about it?
https://youtu.be/LRkYiRnRzY0

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Post Post #111 (isolation #5) » Mon Dec 04, 2017 12:10 pm

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I agree with the Archwing read.

VOTE: Archwing

Should have done this straight away, but I was kinda thinking I wanted to play a wait and see approach.
https://youtu.be/LRkYiRnRzY0

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Post Post #115 (isolation #6) » Mon Dec 04, 2017 12:17 pm

Post by Quick »

In post 112, Espeonage wrote:
In post 88, Quick wrote:OK, so some thoughts that have happened.

Thoughts on Espe:

Their claim could be a WIFOM move as Scum to keep people from talking about things that actually matter in the game. I've done similar things as Scum. That said, I know Espe is just coming back to Mafia after a long hiatus so it could just be that they are excited to get back into the game
so it could just be that they want to stir things up.

Jay's unvote of Archwing is ??? same goes for Archwing's vote and unvote.
This is characteristically me.

I only really care because I wanted to bounce off you, but I have Smart for that, so all g dw.

However, looking back on this. You don't take a stance and soft a scum read on both myself AND Archwing. What's up with that?
You really think I should be taking a stance on you at this point?

Both Arch and Jay are my Scum reads at this point. I felt Jay took the RP a little too far, but that's pretty weak.
https://youtu.be/LRkYiRnRzY0

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Post Post #119 (isolation #7) » Mon Dec 04, 2017 12:25 pm

Post by Quick »

In post 117, Espeonage wrote:
In post 115, Quick wrote:
In post 112, Espeonage wrote:
In post 88, Quick wrote:OK, so some thoughts that have happened.

Thoughts on Espe:

Their claim could be a WIFOM move as Scum to keep people from talking about things that actually matter in the game. I've done similar things as Scum. That said, I know Espe is just coming back to Mafia after a long hiatus so it could just be that they are excited to get back into the game
so it could just be that they want to stir things up.

Jay's unvote of Archwing is ??? same goes for Archwing's vote and unvote.
This is characteristically me.

I only really care because I wanted to bounce off you, but I have Smart for that, so all g dw.

However, looking back on this. You don't take a stance and soft a scum read on both myself AND Archwing. What's up with that?
You really think I should be taking a stance on you at this point?

Both Arch and Jay are my Scum reads at this point. I felt Jay took the RP a little too far, but that's pretty weak.
No, but the post reads like you did.

You accuse three people without really going for any of them.
Yeah, I should have voted Arch or Jay in my opening post. Just seemed kinda weird to lead off with a serious vote when it hadn't even been 24 hours yet. Like I said, I was just giving my thoughts on the game so far. I was going into this game with a wait and see approach which I talked about kinda pre-game.
https://youtu.be/LRkYiRnRzY0

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Post Post #120 (isolation #8) » Mon Dec 04, 2017 12:26 pm

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In post 118, JaydragonKing wrote:...

*Sigh*

Fiiiiiine. I'd still like to be called Elsa though. That part is completely serious.

Not unvoting though. He literally just voted for me without even giving a reason of his own.

So how about it, Uzi? You have the floor and my personal attention.

--- Post Edit ---

Oh what the hell. I don't get to RP but he gets to post GIFS? Screw it, I'm going to flip flop in doing serious and roleplay.
Uzi does naked votes as both Town and Scum. If he ends up giving a reason, that's a better sign.
https://youtu.be/LRkYiRnRzY0

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Post Post #124 (isolation #9) » Mon Dec 04, 2017 1:12 pm

Post by Quick »

In post 20, Quick wrote:
In post 17, WhyMafia wrote:Hard claiming that I will be confirmed town tomorrow
Is that like a IC delayed until D2 or something?
Just quoting this to see if WhyMafia is full of shit or not.
https://youtu.be/LRkYiRnRzY0

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Post Post #125 (isolation #10) » Mon Dec 04, 2017 1:14 pm

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In post 74, JaydragonKing wrote:Don't mind Una. This is our second game together, and I was only with him for a day before he was lynched, but He's always suspicious of others with Pokemon icons.

And since I joined this game without even knowing what format this is, can someone tell me that? There could be one mafia or twelve for all I know. I don't even know all the possible roles.

Help your Queen, please.
Wait, Tulpa or Hydra? Unless I am misunderstanding something???
https://youtu.be/LRkYiRnRzY0

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Post Post #128 (isolation #11) » Mon Dec 04, 2017 1:26 pm

Post by Quick »

In post 126, WhyMafia wrote:
In post 124, Quick wrote:
In post 20, Quick wrote:
In post 17, WhyMafia wrote:Hard claiming that I will be confirmed town tomorrow
Is that like a IC delayed until D2 or something?
Just quoting this to see if WhyMafia is full of shit or not.
Why does it matter to you?
VOTE: Quick
Uh... Why do you think???
https://youtu.be/LRkYiRnRzY0

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Post Post #144 (isolation #12) » Mon Dec 04, 2017 2:13 pm

Post by Quick »

In post 131, WhyMafia wrote:
In post 128, Quick wrote:
In post 126, WhyMafia wrote:
In post 124, Quick wrote:
In post 20, Quick wrote:
In post 17, WhyMafia wrote:Hard claiming that I will be confirmed town tomorrow
Is that like a IC delayed until D2 or something?
Just quoting this to see if WhyMafia is full of shit or not.
Why does it matter to you?
VOTE: Quick
Uh... Why do you think???
If I'm gambiting town, I get to eat the NK from potentially a PR
If I'm telling the truth, you'll find out tomorrow
If I'm scum and have not been confirmed town, you lynch me based on the play

Why in any of these scenarios would you want a definitive answer
Since when is WIFOM good for Town?
https://youtu.be/LRkYiRnRzY0

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Post Post #150 (isolation #13) » Mon Dec 04, 2017 2:18 pm

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In post 147, Archwing wrote:
In post 145, Flavor Leaf wrote:Early green read on WhyMafia.
explain?
His response to me was kinda Townie. I didn't like his vote on me, but aggression more often comes from Town, player depending ofc.
https://youtu.be/LRkYiRnRzY0

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Post Post #152 (isolation #14) » Mon Dec 04, 2017 2:20 pm

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In post 151, Archwing wrote:I would like Flavor Leaf to respond
So would I.
https://youtu.be/LRkYiRnRzY0

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Post Post #180 (isolation #15) » Mon Dec 04, 2017 3:01 pm

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VOTE: Jay

I feel better here for the time being. Arch has shown some Townie thought process' so feeling better about that slot.

Flavor, explain to the class why WIFOM is a good thing for Town.

Didn't think I would be doing this so soon, but WTH, why not?

{Archwing, Flavor}
{Uzi, WhyMafia}
{Espe, Somthing Smart}
{Lurkers, Dunk}
{Chill}
{Una, Jay}
https://youtu.be/LRkYiRnRzY0

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Post Post #181 (isolation #16) » Mon Dec 04, 2017 3:01 pm

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In post 177, Lil Uzi Vert wrote:VOTE: Quick
Naked vote, bud, you know that can't fly with me considering you have been wrong on me a lot.
https://youtu.be/LRkYiRnRzY0

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Post Post #188 (isolation #17) » Mon Dec 04, 2017 3:21 pm

Post by Quick »

In post 187, Lil Uzi Vert wrote:
In post 181, Quick wrote:
In post 177, Lil Uzi Vert wrote:VOTE: Quick
Naked vote, bud, you know that can't fly with me considering you have been wrong on me a lot.
Don’t like your interactions with WhyMafia.

I think you’re experienced enough to know that most players aren’t going to soft IC so blatantly like he did. I don’t think is genuinely trying to figure out why he feels gambiting can help achieve town’s win-con or is pro-town. Reads more like an inquiry that has no correct answer or only designed to elicit a certain response. A trick question if you will.
OK. What do you make of my TR on WM?
https://youtu.be/LRkYiRnRzY0

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Post Post #192 (isolation #18) » Mon Dec 04, 2017 3:32 pm

Post by Quick »

In post 189, Lil Uzi Vert wrote:
In post 188, Quick wrote:
In post 187, Lil Uzi Vert wrote:
In post 181, Quick wrote:
In post 177, Lil Uzi Vert wrote:VOTE: Quick
Naked vote, bud, you know that can't fly with me considering you have been wrong on me a lot.
Don’t like your interactions with WhyMafia.

I think you’re experienced enough to know that most players aren’t going to soft IC so blatantly like he did. I don’t think is genuinely trying to figure out why he feels gambiting can help achieve town’s win-con or is pro-town. Reads more like an inquiry that has no correct answer or only designed to elicit a certain response. A trick question if you will.
OK. What do you make of my TR on WM?
Weak reasoning.
I'd say reads based on expectation of a certain play are pretty weak as well. *shrug*
https://youtu.be/LRkYiRnRzY0

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Post Post #199 (isolation #19) » Mon Dec 04, 2017 4:01 pm

Post by Quick »

In post 198, Espeonage wrote:Ok so my neighbor agrees that Quick is scum.

They want to keep their vote where it is.

So consider the wagon as having another person on it.
How about you explain why you are voting me to begin with?
https://youtu.be/LRkYiRnRzY0

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Post Post #201 (isolation #20) » Mon Dec 04, 2017 4:05 pm

Post by Quick »

In post 200, Espeonage wrote:
In post 198, Espeonage wrote:Ok so my neighbor agrees that Quick is scum.

They want to keep their vote where it is.

So consider the wagon as having another person on it.
Ok so this was slightly wrong.

But I'll try and get them to vote.

Pedit: You're scummy man.Go after someone for good reasons and properly and we can review.
How am I Scummy?

If there were other things to go after, wouldn't you be looking at that stuff as well? I mean I can reread the thread for the third time, but there is not a whole lot to go after at this stage.
https://youtu.be/LRkYiRnRzY0

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Post Post #203 (isolation #21) » Mon Dec 04, 2017 4:09 pm

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In post 48, Espeonage wrote:What if I claimed mason. Would you care then?
Why would you claim mason at this stage of the game?
https://youtu.be/LRkYiRnRzY0

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Post Post #205 (isolation #22) » Mon Dec 04, 2017 4:12 pm

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In post 71, UnaBombaH wrote:
In post 54, Espeonage wrote:I'm not a vanilla townie.

I have so far softclaimed three times and two alignments.
This post pinged me.

Why do you feel the need to make it so stupidly obvious that you have claimed? :?

You also followed up on your first softing with a "Discuss.", meaning that you want to see peoples reaction to it, but by begging for it (and by being so very noisy about it) you won't get many genuine reactions.
I'd say you are not an investigative role, but more along the lines of IC/mason or BP/commuter.

Comment? :]
Why would that ping you? Why wouldn't it just be like "OK this person makes no sense, will have to tread lightly with this one"?
https://youtu.be/LRkYiRnRzY0

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Post Post #206 (isolation #23) » Mon Dec 04, 2017 4:14 pm

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In post 76, JaydragonKing wrote:Not even a general overview of the possible roles here?

How am I supposed to know how many motherfuckers we got to throw into our volcano before town wins then?

Not even like 2-2-9 or 2-2-1-8 or 3-10?

That sucks.
How much experience do you have playing Forum Mafia?
https://youtu.be/LRkYiRnRzY0

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Post Post #209 (isolation #24) » Mon Dec 04, 2017 4:16 pm

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In post 84, JaydragonKing wrote:Is it bad to root for a Serial Killer appearing instead of a second mafia group? That seems more manageable to me. Plus, with the SK around, for balance purposes, the mafia have to be weaker by default.
Why are you talking about a SK in the game so early?
https://youtu.be/LRkYiRnRzY0

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Post Post #210 (isolation #25) » Mon Dec 04, 2017 4:17 pm

Post by Quick »

In post 208, JaydragonKing wrote:
In post 163, JaydragonKing wrote:Only played ToS (town of Salem) before this, so I'm used to the concept of Mafia, but only the quick 20 web browser version.

This is my second game on this site, the other being Newbie 1835, which is actually still going so I can't talk about it much with you, not even mentioning that Una is/was also in that game.

That sounds like an excuse for being impatient, but I have to adjust to this slower pace.
So I don't have to type it again. Here ya go Quick
Is it typical to have multiball games in ToS?

Ranked Games in ToS are required to have four Mafia and either a Werewolf, a Serial Killer, or an Arsonist.
Last edited by Assemblerotws on Mon Dec 04, 2017 4:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post Post #214 (isolation #26) » Mon Dec 04, 2017 5:07 pm

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In post 213, JaydragonKing wrote:@Quick

A game of Town of Salem has 15 players. There's not really a day one, only about a 20 second pregame chat. we go into night one first, everyone does a night action because nearly everybody has one.

In ranked, it goes 9 town, 4 mafia with varying abilities, a Neutral Killing (Serial Killer, Werewolf, Arsonist), and a Neutral Evil (Jester, Witch, Executioner (Lyncher))

Town starts with a Jailor, two town investigatives, a Town killing (Vigilante and Veteran (shoots anybody who visits if he alerts. Roleblocker immune and has three alerts)), Town Protective (doc and bodyguard), Town support (medium who can chat with the dead at night, ret who can rezz one player a game, escort who roleblocker, Mayor who gets three votes, Transporter who moves players at night), and three random town that can be any of those.

It's VERY different.
What I don't get at all is why you would ever think the setup was 9-2-2.
https://youtu.be/LRkYiRnRzY0

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Post Post #258 (isolation #27) » Tue Dec 05, 2017 5:21 am

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VOTE: Espe

Uzi, Flavor, Chill, you know why.
https://youtu.be/LRkYiRnRzY0

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Post Post #264 (isolation #28) » Tue Dec 05, 2017 5:28 am

Post by Quick »

In post 262, Espeonage wrote:
In post 259, Flavor Leaf wrote:
In post 258, Quick wrote:VOTE: Espe

Uzi, Flavor, Chill, you know why.
Yeaaah...

Something_Smart and I pulled off a Mafia victory earlier in the year with a page 1 Miller claim/fake cop claim gambit earlier in the year too, so like, I really don’t like this Miller claim.
Then kill me later. Let me have two day phases.

I am off the table for day 1.
Sorry, but for me, there is zero reason to kill you later rather than sooner. You have to die today.

P-Edit: You don't say. Where have I heard this before?
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Post Post #276 (isolation #29) » Tue Dec 05, 2017 5:43 am

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Now that I have my vote settled for the day, here's my joke for the day:

The Boon Babes be like:



Been waiting to make this one.
https://youtu.be/LRkYiRnRzY0

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Post Post #379 (isolation #30) » Tue Dec 05, 2017 11:20 am

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In post 376, Archwing wrote:OKAY. quick update all.

so, boon has townlean on me, although his back and forth with esp was ridiculous and I never want to read it again. although I will probably have to.

quick notes:
from Elsa was some blatant, explicit sheeping. much dislike, regardless if the vote is on me or anyone else. Form your own reads.
also from Elsa was terrible. Again, this has nothing to do with me being the target, and more about the logic behind it is atrocious.
from Smart kinda pinged me as odd, but I'll leave it for the time being.

so, theory question: I've never played with a miller.... and obviously, miller can never be confirmed town. So because of that, we must then kill the miller? I forget who said it, but someone referenced a thing where they said "Normals can have miller without cop" but then wtf is the point of a miller? makes no sense. Where I'm going with this, is: regardless of what esp has claimed/said.... what is the best course of action to handle a claimed miller?
What are the town miller advantages of claiming miller d1?
obviously some of you boon babes here have successfully gambitted a miller d1 claim as scum, but what about town..?

Need some responses to this before I say anything else.
Town.


Also, the spat between Flavor and Espe isn't necessarily NOT SvS. I know Espe likes to do this kind of shit as Scum and Flavor I can totes see doing it as well. Just read it as Null people.
https://youtu.be/LRkYiRnRzY0

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Post Post #402 (isolation #31) » Tue Dec 05, 2017 4:09 pm

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In post 401, Dunkerdoodles wrote:
In post 400, Tchill13 wrote:dunk how exactly would he vote someone else and it not seem that way?
cause
1. esp already has some votes and is probably the "counterwagon" right now
2. he never mentioned him in his posts before the vote, just came with the vote for no reason. he said he was scumleaning elsa, if anything.
Well, Espe is the "correct" wagon so I can't really fault him for it.
https://youtu.be/LRkYiRnRzY0

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Post Post #408 (isolation #32) » Tue Dec 05, 2017 4:14 pm

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Flavor, I expect you to vote the miller claim within your next 20 posts, thanks.
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Post Post #411 (isolation #33) » Tue Dec 05, 2017 4:59 pm

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In post 409, Flavor Leaf wrote:
In post 408, Quick wrote:Flavor, I expect you to vote the miller claim within your next 20 posts, thanks.
I want to come out of nowhere and hammer the miller if it gets to L-1.
Now that you've spoiled the surprise, go ahead and vote them :wink:
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Post Post #418 (isolation #34) » Tue Dec 05, 2017 5:54 pm

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In post 417, Espeonage wrote:I will vote myself tomorrow.
I believe it
But you're dead today!!!
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Post Post #424 (isolation #35) » Tue Dec 05, 2017 7:14 pm

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In post 423, Tchill13 wrote:
In post 419, JaydragonKing wrote:I still think we should just hang Archie to get him out of the way now, honestly. If Espeonage is literally volunteering for death tommorow, I'm inclined to agree and say they have town's interest at heart. Noob or not, I'm following my gut.

Besides, he went out of his way to threaten my in-game life. I will not move my vote from him.

Sorry Tchill.
saved for later use.
Chill might just be Town this game.
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Post Post #468 (isolation #36) » Wed Dec 06, 2017 6:42 am

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In post 450, Something_Smart wrote:
In post 446, Tchill13 wrote:He's a claimed Miller. A NEGATIVE town utility. Do I think he's scum? He could be. I've explained the motivation if he was. Either way we're lynching a suspect in my book. I'd like for everyone to take a hard stance on this circumstance. I obviously have.
Do you not agree though that at this point the negative utility for town is extremely slight? All it means is that a cop can't check him. But by lynching him we're not removing any negative utility, as a cop certainly can't check him if he's dead.
In post 447, Tchill13 wrote:
In post 445, Something_Smart wrote:Why is town in a worse position to lynch scum while Espe is alive?
If I have a "must kill before lylo" list then at some point I'll have to deal with it. Sooner is always better than later in mafia.
That is a self-defeating argument. If we have a choice between options X and Y, then it works equally in favor of doing X sooner rather than later as of doing Y sooner rather than later.
There will ALWAYS be WIFOM around the Espe slot. And not the good kind where it confuses Scum. It's the bad kind that confuses Town. There is no reason to let Espe live because they might be Town because they also might be Scum.
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Post Post #471 (isolation #37) » Wed Dec 06, 2017 7:21 am

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Chill has been a lot more assertive this game than last game I played with them. Willing to give him a TR at this point, especially if Espe flips red.
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Post Post #472 (isolation #38) » Wed Dec 06, 2017 7:24 am

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In post 464, Dunkerdoodles wrote:
In post 463, UC Voyager wrote:
In post 462, Archwing wrote:@ucv
-I find it funny cause last game I finished with you, as scum, I tried pushing that activity was AI. obviously failed, and with reason. Now you're questioning me on it, and I'm really wondering why. People in this thread have already stated they come on ~once a day at most.
@uzi
tbh I kinda gut scumread him at the start and he nothing he's done has gotten rid of it. I should honestly go re-read his stuff, but I probably won't until d2 so I can see a flip and see what connections I can make with that. there's no reality in which whymaf is getting d1 lynched anyways. I guess his stuff, to me, has had an edge that I don't particularly find super helpful to town, but then again, you guys have like 3098320 times the meta info on him that I don't. meh. like I said... i'll wait for d2.

Can other people input on esp? What do people think about Elsa? If both of those are not your lynch targets, who is?
I was just questioning you. I wasn't scum reading you or anything.

why did you just get super defensive and hostile when i ask you one question?
bit of a stretch don't you think?
Actually, I know UCV is a young kid (no offense UCV) and I also know he's not an idiot (tho some might disagree). I feel this play from UCV comes from Town most likely because as a young kid who is not an idiot I think UCV would play quite a bit more cautiously as Scum.

TL;DR UCV is too Scummy to be Scum.
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Post Post #477 (isolation #39) » Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:43 am

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In post 474, Tchill13 wrote:so far whymaf, jaydragon and something smart have clearly shown theyre against the miller lynch D1. Anyone else want to take a strong stance on it?
OMG, your tone in this game is completely different. I would work on that in your Scum game if I were you.

Oddly, they can't all be Scum (at least I don't think). 4/9 is pretty Scum sided.
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Post Post #479 (isolation #40) » Wed Dec 06, 2017 9:38 am

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In post 478, JaydragonKing wrote:Last I checked from mafia theory, emotion is still an important factor. Logic is needed, but ignoring gut feeling is also a sure way to lose.

My heart, mind, AND gut say it's Archie. He's also deadset on it being me.

Lynch me or him today. Mafia (whichever one of us is mafia is your call) won't kill us. We're rowdy and we're distracting. We'll throw day 2 into unnecessary chaos when we should be looking at everyone equally. Lynching me or him will shut the other up and town can function much easier.
We can lynch you D2, how does that sound?
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Post Post #485 (isolation #41) » Wed Dec 06, 2017 11:03 am

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Archwing wagon looks pretty bad rn.
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Post Post #492 (isolation #42) » Wed Dec 06, 2017 11:42 am

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In post 487, WhyMafia wrote:
In post 468, Quick wrote:
In post 450, Something_Smart wrote:
In post 446, Tchill13 wrote:He's a claimed Miller. A NEGATIVE town utility. Do I think he's scum? He could be. I've explained the motivation if he was. Either way we're lynching a suspect in my book. I'd like for everyone to take a hard stance on this circumstance. I obviously have.
Do you not agree though that at this point the negative utility for town is extremely slight? All it means is that a cop can't check him. But by lynching him we're not removing any negative utility, as a cop certainly can't check him if he's dead.
In post 447, Tchill13 wrote:
In post 445, Something_Smart wrote:Why is town in a worse position to lynch scum while Espe is alive?
If I have a "must kill before lylo" list then at some point I'll have to deal with it. Sooner is always better than later in mafia.
That is a self-defeating argument. If we have a choice between options X and Y, then it works equally in favor of doing X sooner rather than later as of doing Y sooner rather than later.
There will ALWAYS be WIFOM around the Espe slot. And not the good kind where it confuses Scum. It's the bad kind that confuses Town. There is no reason to let Espe live because they might be Town because they also might be Scum.
Isn't this true with everyone though? Like the only difference between a miller and no miller is that the non-miller may get a credible invest result.
The same as everyone to the same degree? Hell no.
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Post Post #516 (isolation #43) » Wed Dec 06, 2017 6:31 pm

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In post 513, Something_Smart wrote:
In post 511, JaydragonKing wrote:Though considering "Jack of all trades" is the tag under your name, either that is a huge coincidence, Assemble did it purposely, or your joking.
Actually, it's a reference to that. Those titles change with post count, and with that post I reached the post count to get the title "Jack of All Trades".
5000 posts is a lot, so I wanted to commemorate the occasion. :P It wasn't a real claim.

It seems to have gone over Tchill's head too.
OK, that is kinda cool.
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Post Post #530 (isolation #44) » Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:28 am

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In post 519, Espeonage wrote:The Quick and Chill push for it to not just happen, but to happen quickly, has me worried.

Because it takes time away from town for what is known to be a misslynch. Which REALLY hurts town and makes day 2 effectively a day 1 with better odds.
Oh? What gave you the idea I thought you should be quick lynched?

Thanks for spewing Chill and I Town if you flip red tho :wink:
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Post Post #531 (isolation #45) » Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:30 am

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In post 520, Espeonage wrote:I kind of what to flip Jay.

If they flip scum, it's multiball. Which is good to know.

Bc relationally my scumreads don't make sense together and I have four of them. And it'd be nice to have a chance for them all to be scum at the same time.
What makes you so confident it has to be multiball if Jay flips Scum? My dirty little secret is that I am reading both you and Jay as Scum. Take that fwiw.
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Post Post #576 (isolation #46) » Thu Dec 07, 2017 11:12 am

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In post 573, Flavor Leaf wrote:
In post 563, Tchill13 wrote:Well una that kinda flies over my head but I'd rather not discuss it further.... I still don't want to move my vote. If I had to it'd be arch or Jay. Idk why you scum read quick.
Arch and Jay both are seeming townie to me after analyzing.

Hmm. Scum is definitely within the players I know well this game. I’m struggling to really solidify my reads. This generally means that multiple players I know often are scum, and are able to play in a way where I won’t, or anyone else who is familiar with them, can pick anything up on them.
Why is Jay Town?

What tells you that Scum is in the players you know?
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Post Post #579 (isolation #47) » Thu Dec 07, 2017 11:49 am

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In post 578, JaydragonKing wrote:Half of you calling me Jay and the other half calling me Elsa. Fun times.
Jay is easier to type for me.
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Post Post #605 (isolation #48) » Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:13 pm

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In post 597, UC Voyager wrote:Waiting to do what?


It is a great argument also. It is called fate. Like if assemble was a player and not a mod, either me or him would be scum
Gamblers Fallacy. Sorry, you're wrong.
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Post Post #607 (isolation #49) » Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:17 pm

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Ari looks like Scum. All I see is an agenda in his posts so far. He's not really sorting anyone just labeling people Scum/Town.
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Post Post #614 (isolation #50) » Thu Dec 07, 2017 6:21 pm

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In post 610, Tchill13 wrote:VOTE: UCV
BOOOOOOOO!!!!!
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Post Post #617 (isolation #51) » Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:18 pm

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In post 615, Tchill13 wrote:UC stuck his foot in his mouth.
That doesn't make him Scum, unless you are talking slips in which case, I'm most probably not going to buy it. I generally have a policy against slips, I made a big mistake last game and I don't want to repeat the same mistake again.
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Post Post #620 (isolation #52) » Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:29 pm

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In post 611, Aristophanes wrote:
In post 607, Quick wrote:Ari looks like Scum. All I see is an agenda in his posts so far. He's not really sorting anyone just labeling people Scum/Town.
I'm working through things and giving the feelings I get from them. How is that scummy?
Because you only ask a question when someone accuses you of being Scum for starters.
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Post Post #636 (isolation #53) » Fri Dec 08, 2017 9:57 am

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In post 631, Tchill13 wrote:jay and archie are getting thrown around a lot. The miller lynch was met with VERY much opposition. Ari's catch up is meh. Whymafia, Dunk and lil uzi leave much to be desired in effort. Apparently flavor doesn't game solve till day 3 (which seems like he's adjusting his town play to benefit his scum play if he's not gonna get involved early because ik how good a player he is.)... So yeah... Let's lynch someone.
Opposition to a wagon is more often than not an indication the slot is Scum. :facepalm:
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Post Post #639 (isolation #54) » Fri Dec 08, 2017 10:37 am

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In post 638, Something_Smart wrote:
In post 636, Quick wrote:Opposition to a wagon is more often than not an indication the slot is Scum.
Lol
In the context of what is going on in this game? Yeah, I would say so. Chill has points that still have yet to actually be refuted but instead people don't heed his wisdom because... why? I am not really sure. Someone explain it to me.
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Post Post #644 (isolation #55) » Fri Dec 08, 2017 11:04 am

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In post 268, Something_Smart wrote:
In post 259, Flavor Leaf wrote:
In post 258, Quick wrote:VOTE: Espe

Uzi, Flavor, Chill, you know why.
Yeaaah...

Something_Smart and I pulled off a Mafia victory earlier in the year with a page 1 Miller claim/fake cop claim gambit earlier in the year too, so like, I really don’t like this Miller claim.
You feel tonally similar to that game.

(Of course I'm taking that with a huge grain of salt as that's the only game I've played with you. But it still is a fact.)

And Espe, trust me, I'm aware of that :P but your claim would still be MORE trustworthy if there is a cop.
In post 290, Something_Smart wrote:
In post 287, Espeonage wrote:- As in, do you still claim to know my alignment and role.
Since it's now outright stated, yes, I fully believe you to be a town miller.
In post 380, Something_Smart wrote:
WhyMafia wrote:Guys I played as miller fairly recently
Just treat the miller as you would with any other player. Judge them on their play. If they act scummy, we pressure them, if they don't, we let em live
Oh my god I'm getting so many flashbacks to the game where I claimed miller as scum LOL.

Every time anyone said something like this, I cheered silently :lol:
In post 426, Something_Smart wrote:
In post 425, Tchill13 wrote:From espeonage's pov anything that can keep him from getting lynched is what he's hoping for.
you make it sound like he didn't expect people to want to policy him when he claimed miller.

if we wanted to keep from getting lynched, he could have NOT CLAIMED MILLER.
In post 429, Something_Smart wrote:Kind of a shot in the dark here but I feel like scum are a BIT more of a hindrance to town than a miller is.
In post 433, Something_Smart wrote:And you know what, I can qualify that even more.

Scummy townies are hindrances to town too. So every lynch will remove a hindrance to town. With a miller, there are other things that can make his claim more or less likely, like the flipping of certain roles (And there are some roles that can still outright clear him, notably rolecop).

Miller is a very tiny hindrance to town once claimed. The only negative result is that if a cop happened to want to investigate him, they wouldn't be able to. That's very minor.

I agree with you that it is, in general, a bad idea to let miller claims live until LYLO. If he begins to show survivalistic tendencies in the next few days, then I may be willing to vote there.

But there's no reason it has to be today.
In post 442, Something_Smart wrote:Coming from one person who's made endgame after fakeclaiming miller to another, I think it's well understood.

But your argument doesn't make sense. You're saying town should lynch him now because they might suddenly become dumb and decide not to lynch him later. If this were a town that would refuse to lynch the miller claim D2 or D3, could you really expect them to lynch it D1?

I don't know if I'm explaining this in the best way, but there's definitely some logical fallacy going on. If you could pick the lynch, you'd probably lynch Espe D2 or D3. But you're assuming that you won't be able to pick the lynch on those days because "anything can happen", so you believe that you can pick the lynch on D1.

Does that make sense?
In post 450, Something_Smart wrote:
In post 446, Tchill13 wrote:He's a claimed Miller. A NEGATIVE town utility. Do I think he's scum? He could be. I've explained the motivation if he was. Either way we're lynching a suspect in my book. I'd like for everyone to take a hard stance on this circumstance. I obviously have.
Do you not agree though that at this point the negative utility for town is extremely slight? All it means is that a cop can't check him. But by lynching him we're not removing any negative utility, as a cop certainly can't check him if he's dead.
In post 447, Tchill13 wrote:
In post 445, Something_Smart wrote:Why is town in a worse position to lynch scum while Espe is alive?
If I have a "must kill before lylo" list then at some point I'll have to deal with it. Sooner is always better than later in mafia.
That is a self-defeating argument. If we have a choice between options X and Y, then it works equally in favor of doing X sooner rather than later as of doing Y sooner rather than later.
In post 529, Something_Smart wrote:
In post 518, UnaBombaH wrote:*If my read on town!Esp. is accurate, then
Someone heavily advocating to lynch Esp. today is likely scum
Actually, I disagree. I think that a better conclusion is that someone defending him is likely scum. I think scum would try to avoid being at the forefront of a miller push; they'd try to hide in the background and look like they were just following and it wasn't their fault.
In post 520, Espeonage wrote:I kind of what to flip Jay.

If they flip scum, it's multiball. Which is good to know.

Bc relationally my scumreads don't make sense together and I have four of them. And it'd be nice to have a chance for them all to be scum at the same time.
Better idea:

If you think Jay scum implies multiball, then singleball would imply Jay town. So leave them alive for now and see if it's multiball first.

(And by the way, UCV, Paint Mafia Mania was an unusually terrible multiball game. Usually, they aren't quite so one-sided, and of course this is a normal so all of the complex mechanics there won't be present here.)
In post 542, Something_Smart wrote:Key word "threat".

What exactly does the existence of a miller claim threaten?
In post 559, Something_Smart wrote:And the existence of a cop would give a lot of credence to the miller claim.
In post 253, Something_Smart wrote:
In post 251, Flavor Leaf wrote:Also,

@Something_Smart - Thoughts on that Miller claim? :lol:
Wayyyyyy more believable than mine was :P
In post 585, Something_Smart wrote:
In post 582, Tchill13 wrote:Smart who's a scum read besides a low poster you'd rather Lynch Over the Miller?
I don't have any other scumreads.
This is every time you talk about miller by doing a mill search in your ISO.

Now I really don't want to have to do this because I have better shit to do with my time. But I can poke holes in ALL of these arguments and they still don't address the +EV of lynching a miller claim D1. Lynching miller D1 is the STANDARD way you SHOULD deal with that claim UNLESS there is something beyond magical that happens during the day that would override a miller death D1.

Your play surrounding the miller claim is exceptionally weak and I am vote parking on miller until miller claim is dead.
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Post Post #645 (isolation #56) » Fri Dec 08, 2017 11:14 am

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And lets get this strait, you don't NOT lynch a miller claim "because I believe the claim" you don't lynch a miller claim because "there is no doubt in my mind that the miller slot is Town" and if you have that kind of read on Espe at this point you should just quit Mafia right now.

And if you keep attacking the intelligence of your fellow players, you should just replace out before I do it for you. This is your only warning.
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Post Post #658 (isolation #57) » Fri Dec 08, 2017 12:17 pm

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In post 646, Something_Smart wrote:
In post 644, Quick wrote:Lynching miller D1 is the STANDARD way you SHOULD deal with that claim UNLESS there is something beyond magical that happens during the day that would override a miller death D1.
Evidence?

I've seen at least 4 games with miller claims and this view was never held by more than a few players, if it was even brought up at all. Even here it's a minority view.
I hold my reasoning ability above the norm, I guess. If you're looking for evidence why I should put such confidence in myself I would tell you I scored better than 93% of people in the Science portion of the ACT which involves interpretation, analysis, evaluation, reasoning, and problem solving. Just so it doesn't look like I am bragging tho, I scored better than only 45% of people in either Reading or English, I can't remember which.
In post 647, Something_Smart wrote:
In post 645, Quick wrote:And lets get this strait, you don't NOT lynch a miller claim "because I believe the claim" you don't lynch a miller claim because "there is no doubt in my mind that the miller slot is Town" and if you have that kind of read on Espe at this point you should just quit Mafia right now.
Once again, you can't make claims like this with no evidence.

There are 11 people that I will not end up lynching today. Clearly I can't be positive that they're ALL town. So why should I have to positive that ESPE is town in order to not lynch him?
Because the most reasonable play to make if you are not positive of Espe's alignment as Town is to lynch the miller claim for reasons stated by Chill which you haven't actually refuted, but just moved the goal posts. If you want to argue that not lynching Espe is a more correct process, you are going to have to argue why keeping Espe alive for a later time in the game is beneficial to Town given you can't be sure of Espe's alignment. I believe the only possible reasons you can say that Espe shouldn't be lynched at this point is because either there is a legit Scum slip (which you will be hard pressed to convince me of because as I said earlier, I don't believe in slips unless it is blatantly obvious to everyone in the game) or you think you are better at making associations through Espe's play with other players to the degree that you know for certain that the next lynch will not be on Town. That would also require you to lynch Scum D1 as well. Good luck arguing that one.
https://youtu.be/LRkYiRnRzY0

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Post Post #660 (isolation #58) » Fri Dec 08, 2017 12:20 pm

Post by Quick »

In post 655, Something_Smart wrote:I don't believe that he makes the game mechanically hard to win. Slightly harder, yes, but the only drawback is that a cop has one person who they definitely can't investigate. There is usually more than one good cop target in any given night so that is a very small loss in my opinion. Do you disagree?

The part about not risking another claim day 1 is also valid, though in general that risk is always present. I also see the merit in the argument that he will not be killed by scum, though I think that anyone else who we MIGHT mislynch today is probably not gonna be killed either. Furthermore, lynching a scummy VT is not worse than lynching a towny miller, since the miller if town will continue to contribute to lynching scum and he seems to be a pretty strong player.

Finally, at the very least I think the opportunity cost of leaving him until tomorrow is worth it, since he's a perfect target for a rolecop (and also probably vanilla cop), gunsmith, vig, or any loyal investigative.

I'm starting to see where you're coming from, finally. Do you see where I'm coming from?
Why are you even arguing that we should keep Espe around because it only makes it a little harder to solve the game? Why take a harder option at all? Again, you have to be certain that Espe is Town for even your own arguments to even have a barring on whether we keep Espe alive or not.
https://youtu.be/LRkYiRnRzY0

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Post Post #666 (isolation #59) » Fri Dec 08, 2017 12:43 pm

Post by Quick »

In post 662, WhyMafia wrote:
In post 564, Something_Smart wrote:Quick lynch
I don't think this is lynch bait. I have more the feeling that scum are bussing Quick rn because while there's been substantial pressure on the other names, there's been little to nothing on Quick
Oh, this HAS to be based on gut because I know you can't make this case.
https://youtu.be/LRkYiRnRzY0

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Post Post #668 (isolation #60) » Fri Dec 08, 2017 12:45 pm

Post by Quick »

In post 663, WhyMafia wrote:
In post 607, Quick wrote:Ari looks like Scum. All I see is an agenda in his posts so far. He's not really sorting anyone just labeling people Scum/Town.
Can you please explain what you mean by agenda?
Forwarding a Scum win con. They can only do this by lynching X amount of Townies, hence why Scum almost always have to play manipulatively and debatably always.
https://youtu.be/LRkYiRnRzY0

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Post Post #669 (isolation #61) » Fri Dec 08, 2017 12:47 pm

Post by Quick »

In post 667, WhyMafia wrote:
In post 666, Quick wrote:
In post 662, WhyMafia wrote:
In post 564, Something_Smart wrote:Quick lynch
I don't think this is lynch bait. I have more the feeling that scum are bussing Quick rn because while there's been substantial pressure on the other names, there's been little to nothing on Quick
Oh, this HAS to be based on gut because I know you can't make this case.
Gut as in that post? If so, yes

Gut as in my scum read? No

Glad you're here. I wanna ask you a few things
Your SR on me or your SR on who is bussing me? Either way, you can't make this case.
https://youtu.be/LRkYiRnRzY0

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Post Post #670 (isolation #62) » Fri Dec 08, 2017 12:48 pm

Post by Quick »

In post 661, WhyMafia wrote:
In post 533, Tchill13 wrote:Nobody has taken a hard stance on the matter since I asked. So I'll politely ask again that yall do.
I made my opinion clear on this
idec if he lives to LYLO
I don't get what the big deal of being invest immune is
I think you are too dumb to be Scum at this point.
https://youtu.be/LRkYiRnRzY0

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Post Post #679 (isolation #63) » Fri Dec 08, 2017 1:14 pm

Post by Quick »

In post 671, Something_Smart wrote:
In post 658, Quick wrote:
In post 646, Something_Smart wrote:
In post 644, Quick wrote:Lynching miller D1 is the STANDARD way you SHOULD deal with that claim UNLESS there is something beyond magical that happens during the day that would override a miller death D1.
Evidence?

I've seen at least 4 games with miller claims and this view was never held by more than a few players, if it was even brought up at all. Even here it's a minority view.
I hold my reasoning ability above the norm, I guess. If you're looking for evidence why I should put such confidence in myself I would tell you I scored better than 93% of people in the Science portion of the ACT which involves interpretation, analysis, evaluation, reasoning, and problem solving. Just so it doesn't look like I am bragging tho, I scored better than only 45% of people in either Reading or English, I can't remember which.
I hold my reasoning ability above the norm too (as do I imagine most people on this site). But that's not what I meant; I wanted proof that this is in fact the standard because in my experience the standard way to deal with a miller is to judge them on play.
In post 647, Something_Smart wrote:
In post 645, Quick wrote:And lets get this strait, you don't NOT lynch a miller claim "because I believe the claim" you don't lynch a miller claim because "there is no doubt in my mind that the miller slot is Town" and if you have that kind of read on Espe at this point you should just quit Mafia right now.
Once again, you can't make claims like this with no evidence.

There are 11 people that I will not end up lynching today. Clearly I can't be positive that they're ALL town. So why should I have to positive that ESPE is town in order to not lynch him?
Because the most reasonable play to make if you are not positive of Espe's alignment as Town is to lynch the miller claim for reasons stated by Chill which you haven't actually refuted, but just moved the goal posts. If you want to argue that not lynching Espe is a more correct process, you are going to have to argue why keeping Espe alive for a later time in the game is beneficial to Town given you can't be sure of Espe's alignment. I believe the only possible reasons you can say that Espe shouldn't be lynched at this point is because either there is a legit Scum slip (which you will be hard pressed to convince me of because as I said earlier, I don't believe in slips unless it is blatantly obvious to everyone in the game) or you think you are better at making associations through Espe's play with other players to the degree that you know for certain that the next lynch will not be on Town. That would also require you to lynch Scum D1 as well. Good luck arguing that one.
I don't think I'm the one who moved the goal posts. The aim of a mafia game is to lynch scum. This is an incontrovertible fact. Therefore, without a compelling reason to the contrary, we should lynch the player we think most likely to be scum. I am not positive of his alignment, but I townread him, and I believe we can get a better CHANCE of flipping scum lynching someone else. Arguing that you need certainty is dumb; this is not a game about certainty but about judgements and probabilities.

I want to lynch scum. Espe is not likely scum. Therefore, I don't want to lynch Espe. If I end up lynching town, then I was not WRONG about the probability of that person flipping scum, and mislynching someone else is NOT worse than mislynching Espe. Because whoever we would have lynched had we not lynched Espe would be considered the scummiest person in the town, and would be mislynched the next day.
In post 660, Quick wrote:Why are you even arguing that we should keep Espe around because it only makes it a little harder to solve the game? Why take a harder option at all? Again, you have to be certain that Espe is Town for even your own arguments to even have a barring on whether we keep Espe alive or not.
Because I think he is town. I don't have to be certain he is town; I just have to believe that his odds of flipping scum are lower than other players' odds.
Your presupposition relies on lack of context into what a miller claim is and why it is problematic for Town. You can't reduce it to "lynch the Scummiest player" because even you admit that Espe cannot see LyLo. What I want to know and what you still have not answered, is why is it beneficial for Town to delay lynching a slot that cannot see LyLo given that at the beginning of the game is when we have the least to go on so putting off lynching a miller claim has not only unpredictable results, but that Scum already know if Espe is Town or not which gives them a tactical advantage, so all Scum have to do is observe and react to what Town does in regards to lynching a miller claim rather than forcing a known lynch which forces Scum to have to play a more strategic game rather than a reactionary game rather which forces letting Espe live for an automatic unknown amount of time given that if we are having this conversation now then there is no guarantee that this conversation will not come up tomorrow since it's the fact that you default to leaving your options open rather than going with a strategy that is known to benefit Town in the long run because it eliminates the uncertainty in dealing with a slot that given the nature of the claimed role we will never have any way to confirm them as Town, only confirm them as Scum which makes it a +EV play to lynch Espe in all worlds short of something insane happening.
https://youtu.be/LRkYiRnRzY0

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Post Post #681 (isolation #64) » Fri Dec 08, 2017 1:32 pm

Post by Quick »

In post 673, WhyMafia wrote:
In post 131, WhyMafia wrote:
In post 128, Quick wrote:
In post 126, WhyMafia wrote:
In post 124, Quick wrote:
In post 20, Quick wrote:
In post 17, WhyMafia wrote:Hard claiming that I will be confirmed town tomorrow
Is that like a IC delayed until D2 or something?
Just quoting this to see if WhyMafia is full of shit or not.
Why does it matter to you?
VOTE: Quick
Uh... Why do you think???
If I'm gambiting town, I get to eat the NK from potentially a PR
If I'm telling the truth, you'll find out tomorrow
If I'm scum and have not been confirmed town, you lynch me based on the play

Why in any of these scenarios would you want a definitive answer
In post 131, WhyMafia wrote:
In post 128, Quick wrote:
In post 126, WhyMafia wrote:
In post 124, Quick wrote:
In post 20, Quick wrote:
In post 17, WhyMafia wrote:Hard claiming that I will be confirmed town tomorrow
Is that like a IC delayed until D2 or something?
Just quoting this to see if WhyMafia is full of shit or not.
Why does it matter to you?
VOTE: Quick
Uh... Why do you think???
If I'm gambiting town, I get to eat the NK from potentially a PR
If I'm telling the truth, you'll find out tomorrow
If I'm scum and have not been confirmed town, you lynch me based on the play

Why in any of these scenarios would you want a definitive answer
I don't like how you sidestepped my question with your response in
To me it seems that this is a post that could set up a mis-lynch in the future. Can you go through your mindset on why you said this?
In why do you think it's an agenda

Also:
Clearly you and Tchill aren't convincing the majority of town. Who do you think is manipulating us? Why aren't you focused on convincing others that you're right? Your main argument has been with SS. To me, it doesn't seem like you're trying your hardest to get that lynch through.
Furthermore, by making the miller claim a centerpoint for discussion despite realizing that this lynch in all likelihood won't happen, you're causing less scum hunting to take place and putting your vote on a vanity wagon
Fix your links and I will answer.

You are making a mistake I think Town is more likely to make than Scum. You are demonstrating a contradiction in thought process. Proof of this is that you argue that on the one hand that with regards to the miller claim its best to take it a day at a time ignoring the fact that Espe could be Scum which ignores a future outlook on the game and on the other hand you are looking into my motivation in the future tense. You can't have it both ways. Either play in mind for the future or play in mind in the present, this mix and match shit isn't going to work.

I think Ari has an agenda because the only
Scumhunting (or demonstrating a willingness to sort someone by engaging with them)
(which is besides reads) he has done are on slot's that have already received more than their fair share of Suspicion or myself who brought into light that Ari was doing this in the first place. It's a Scum mindset to have to either soft bus Jay in that spot or throw more suspicion on a slot already receiving suspicion which would mean he is playing opportunistically considering he hasn't Scumhunted anyone who is outside of Suspicion already. And IDK what Ari's stance on Espe is and that's not good either, but perhaps he did say what it is and I just don't remember.

I don't have to know who is manipulating us, all I have to know is who is making a correct play and who is making an incorrect play. Based on that I can look back on the resistance to the Espe wagon and determine who's motives were pure in no wanting to lynch Espe and whose were not. I prolly won't go to all that trouble tho because I will still be trying to lynch Espe which is the correct play in all worlds barring something insane happens. It's not my fault that people are playing in a way that gives Town a worse chance of winning. If I don't push Espe today, when it is the optimal time to lynch them, then who is going to push Espe tomorrow when Town still won't have any more answers into Espe's alignment.
https://youtu.be/LRkYiRnRzY0

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Post Post #686 (isolation #65) » Fri Dec 08, 2017 2:10 pm

Post by Quick »

In post 685, Espeonage wrote:
In post 531, Quick wrote:
In post 520, Espeonage wrote:I kind of what to flip Jay.

If they flip scum, it's multiball. Which is good to know.

Bc relationally my scumreads don't make sense together and I have four of them. And it'd be nice to have a chance for them all to be scum at the same time.
What makes you so confident it has to be multiball if Jay flips Scum? My dirty little secret is that I am reading both you and Jay as Scum. Take that fwiw.
Bc he wouldn't shutup about it first thing in the game.
That completely ignores the playstyle of the slot.
https://youtu.be/LRkYiRnRzY0

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Post Post #690 (isolation #66) » Fri Dec 08, 2017 2:44 pm

Post by Quick »

Now I'm just seriously SRing Espe.
https://youtu.be/LRkYiRnRzY0

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Post Post #692 (isolation #67) » Fri Dec 08, 2017 2:48 pm

Post by Quick »

Going to do a Yolo Scum team read (and I really do mean Yolo because I never do this, just doing it now because I am on fire and I need to do something crazy).

Espe
Ari
Jay
Dunk
Flavor - less sure
https://youtu.be/LRkYiRnRzY0

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Post Post #696 (isolation #68) » Fri Dec 08, 2017 2:52 pm

Post by Quick »

In post 693, Espeonage wrote:
In post 679, Quick wrote:
In post 671, Something_Smart wrote:
In post 658, Quick wrote:
In post 646, Something_Smart wrote:
In post 644, Quick wrote:Lynching miller D1 is the STANDARD way you SHOULD deal with that claim UNLESS there is something beyond magical that happens during the day that would override a miller death D1.
Evidence?

I've seen at least 4 games with miller claims and this view was never held by more than a few players, if it was even brought up at all. Even here it's a minority view.
I hold my reasoning ability above the norm, I guess. If you're looking for evidence why I should put such confidence in myself I would tell you I scored better than 93% of people in the Science portion of the ACT which involves interpretation, analysis, evaluation, reasoning, and problem solving. Just so it doesn't look like I am bragging tho, I scored better than only 45% of people in either Reading or English, I can't remember which.
I hold my reasoning ability above the norm too (as do I imagine most people on this site). But that's not what I meant; I wanted proof that this is in fact the standard because in my experience the standard way to deal with a miller is to judge them on play.
In post 647, Something_Smart wrote:
In post 645, Quick wrote:And lets get this strait, you don't NOT lynch a miller claim "because I believe the claim" you don't lynch a miller claim because "there is no doubt in my mind that the miller slot is Town" and if you have that kind of read on Espe at this point you should just quit Mafia right now.
Once again, you can't make claims like this with no evidence.

There are 11 people that I will not end up lynching today. Clearly I can't be positive that they're ALL town. So why should I have to positive that ESPE is town in order to not lynch him?
Because the most reasonable play to make if you are not positive of Espe's alignment as Town is to lynch the miller claim for reasons stated by Chill which you haven't actually refuted, but just moved the goal posts. If you want to argue that not lynching Espe is a more correct process, you are going to have to argue why keeping Espe alive for a later time in the game is beneficial to Town given you can't be sure of Espe's alignment. I believe the only possible reasons you can say that Espe shouldn't be lynched at this point is because either there is a legit Scum slip (which you will be hard pressed to convince me of because as I said earlier, I don't believe in slips unless it is blatantly obvious to everyone in the game) or you think you are better at making associations through Espe's play with other players to the degree that you know for certain that the next lynch will not be on Town. That would also require you to lynch Scum D1 as well. Good luck arguing that one.
I don't think I'm the one who moved the goal posts. The aim of a mafia game is to lynch scum. This is an incontrovertible fact. Therefore, without a compelling reason to the contrary, we should lynch the player we think most likely to be scum. I am not positive of his alignment, but I townread him, and I believe we can get a better CHANCE of flipping scum lynching someone else. Arguing that you need certainty is dumb; this is not a game about certainty but about judgements and probabilities.

I want to lynch scum. Espe is not likely scum. Therefore, I don't want to lynch Espe. If I end up lynching town, then I was not WRONG about the probability of that person flipping scum, and mislynching someone else is NOT worse than mislynching Espe. Because whoever we would have lynched had we not lynched Espe would be considered the scummiest person in the town, and would be mislynched the next day.
In post 660, Quick wrote:Why are you even arguing that we should keep Espe around because it only makes it a little harder to solve the game? Why take a harder option at all? Again, you have to be certain that Espe is Town for even your own arguments to even have a barring on whether we keep Espe alive or not.
Because I think he is town. I don't have to be certain he is town; I just have to believe that his odds of flipping scum are lower than other players' odds.
Your presupposition relies on lack of context into what a miller claim is and why it is problematic for Town. You can't reduce it to "lynch the Scummiest player" because even you admit that Espe cannot see LyLo. What I want to know and what you still have not answered, is why is it beneficial for Town to delay lynching a slot that cannot see LyLo given that at the beginning of the game is when we have the least to go on so putting off lynching a miller claim has not only unpredictable results, but that Scum already know if Espe is Town or not which gives them a tactical advantage, so all Scum have to do is observe and react to what Town does in regards to lynching a miller claim rather than forcing a known lynch which forces Scum to have to play a more strategic game rather than a reactionary game rather which forces letting Espe live for an automatic unknown amount of time given that if we are having this conversation now then there is no guarantee that this conversation will not come up tomorrow since it's the fact that you default to leaving your options open rather than going with a strategy that is known to benefit Town in the long run because it eliminates the uncertainty in dealing with a slot that given the nature of the claimed role we will never have any way to confirm them as Town, only confirm them as Scum which makes it a +EV play to lynch Espe in all worlds short of something insane happening.
Hello. I'm right here. The reason you keep me around is because I am good at this game.

This was the whole point of me claiming.

I have even said this, multiple times.

I want to see day 2 so that I can out my expertise to use.

And this is the mean reason I think you're scum. I believe you to be scum because you are scared of me.
I ain't scurd and your tone is fake af. Mock aggression, that is what I am calling it. And LOL, I am good at this game too.
https://youtu.be/LRkYiRnRzY0

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Post Post #701 (isolation #69) » Fri Dec 08, 2017 2:54 pm

Post by Quick »

In post 697, Espeonage wrote:
In post 686, Quick wrote:
In post 685, Espeonage wrote:
In post 531, Quick wrote:
In post 520, Espeonage wrote:I kind of what to flip Jay.

If they flip scum, it's multiball. Which is good to know.

Bc relationally my scumreads don't make sense together and I have four of them. And it'd be nice to have a chance for them all to be scum at the same time.
What makes you so confident it has to be multiball if Jay flips Scum? My dirty little secret is that I am reading both you and Jay as Scum. Take that fwiw.
Bc he wouldn't shutup about it first thing in the game.
That completely ignores the playstyle of the slot.
Ok, convince me that hay hasn't scumslipped like I did in Denmark mafia
Why?
https://youtu.be/LRkYiRnRzY0

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Post Post #703 (isolation #70) » Fri Dec 08, 2017 2:56 pm

Post by Quick »

In post 700, Espeonage wrote:
In post 691, Tchill13 wrote:
In post 687, Espeonage wrote:
In post 651, Tchill13 wrote:
In post 643, JaydragonKing wrote:That feel when your a noob but everyone elsa around you is using meta strategies from having multiple games together.

If I was scum, I really would have been fucked.

If you Mainstays on this site could kindly use evidence from this game instead of previous experience with that player for your case, so someone such as myself can make an informed decision, that would be wonderful.
Town... For now.

UNVOTE:

I'll cherry pick my reasons for keeping ppl around as well. This player seems pleasant and is giving effort. I'm not lynching until day 3 at the least or we have enough evidence to believe they're scum. Effort is NAI but makes for a more enjoyable experience. So yeah I'm gonna play with jaydragonking for a bit.
This post should be grounds for a force replace imo
wanted to see what would come of it. you didnt dissapoint. if your "day play' is calling for people to be force replaced then it's definitely a style i havent seen before.
No, my day play is independent of not wanting to play with someone who has admitted they lynch based on personality and not scumreads.
Pretty thin line between personality and SRs IMO. :)
https://youtu.be/LRkYiRnRzY0

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Post Post #706 (isolation #71) » Fri Dec 08, 2017 3:01 pm

Post by Quick »

In post 705, Espeonage wrote:
In post 694, Tchill13 wrote:
In post 688, Espeonage wrote:
In post 653, Tchill13 wrote:It seems to imply I absolutely believe lynching espe will help town win this game whether he's scum or not. I will absolutely risk Lynching a townie that at its very core makes the game mechanically hard to win as town. I'll risk that over mislynching a townie that could be helpful every time. If we Lynch the Miller claim we possibly hit scum. We possibly hit a negative utility. We DO NOT risk another claim day 1. We do not risk wasting a mislynch on a townie that is not a negative utility while leaving a negative utility on the board that WILL NOT be killed by scum.
For this to be true it requires you to think out only way of winning is through power roles and not day play.

And my day play ability is why I want to get to day 2 because I believe the entire point of the game is to focus on day play.
discrediting and undermining my play. nice. I'd lynch the best mafia player of all time if he hurt town more than he could help. No matter what you say or do you have to be lynched sooner than later due to your claim. sorry im not letting your gambit work unlike the rest of the player list. Nice to meet you though.
Your twisting of points is admirable. However.

I need you to explain how requiring my lynch day 1 bc I can't be confirmed by a cop doesn't mean you don't think town can win without a cop.

Because your vehemence is more than anyone should care unless they think the game is unwinnable with me here.
The thing is... you can't be cleared by ANY means. That means you are a liability.
https://youtu.be/LRkYiRnRzY0

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Post Post #716 (isolation #72) » Fri Dec 08, 2017 3:13 pm

Post by Quick »

TBH? Millers should be no where near Normal games. I don't think Assemble puts in a miller as an aside.
https://youtu.be/LRkYiRnRzY0

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Post Post #718 (isolation #73) » Fri Dec 08, 2017 3:17 pm

Post by Quick »

In post 715, Flavor Leaf wrote:Funny because I was calling Quick a liability in a previous game. As confirmed town.
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Post Post #719 (isolation #74) » Fri Dec 08, 2017 3:18 pm

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In post 717, JaydragonKing wrote:I think I was vote number 6? One more is needed. Espeonage, if you want to leave, mind hammering yourself? Just to confirm.
Oh NOW you want a quick lynch...
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Post Post #721 (isolation #75) » Fri Dec 08, 2017 3:22 pm

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In post 720, Espeonage wrote:The game should have a chance to have someone give reads that aren't clouded by anger.

After this slot flips. You need to lynch quick and chill. Because I don't think they are stupid enough to be taking these stances as town.

unvote, vote:espe
Clearly I have demonstrated how stupid I am.
https://youtu.be/LRkYiRnRzY0

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Post Post #722 (isolation #76) » Fri Dec 08, 2017 3:25 pm

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Either my reads are Godly or Espe is Town.
https://youtu.be/LRkYiRnRzY0

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Post Post #725 (isolation #77) » Fri Dec 08, 2017 3:28 pm

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In post 723, Dunkerdoodles wrote:
In post 689, Flavor Leaf wrote:
In post 684, Dunkerdoodles wrote:quick is town
tchill is town
something_smart is townlean but might be scum
i think jay is town
whymaf is town

basically i think the scum is in the people not posting
You realize you are top 3 lowest posters basically, right?
yup
Why didn't you give a read on Espe?
https://youtu.be/LRkYiRnRzY0

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Post Post #728 (isolation #78) » Fri Dec 08, 2017 3:31 pm

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In post 586, Dunkerdoodles wrote:going to agree with chilly here
VOTE: espeonage
i still think jay is town, arch is scum
tchill town
i'll get back with some more reads later
Why did you keep Jay and Arch on the same line?
https://youtu.be/LRkYiRnRzY0

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Post Post #731 (isolation #79) » Fri Dec 08, 2017 3:56 pm

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In post 620, Quick wrote:
In post 611, Aristophanes wrote:
In post 607, Quick wrote:Ari looks like Scum. All I see is an agenda in his posts so far. He's not really sorting anyone just labeling people Scum/Town.
I'm working through things and giving the feelings I get from them. How is that scummy?
Because you only ask a question when someone accuses you of being Scum for starters.
Did not respond.
In post 706, Quick wrote:
In post 705, Espeonage wrote:
In post 694, Tchill13 wrote:
In post 688, Espeonage wrote:
In post 653, Tchill13 wrote:It seems to imply I absolutely believe lynching espe will help town win this game whether he's scum or not. I will absolutely risk Lynching a townie that at its very core makes the game mechanically hard to win as town. I'll risk that over mislynching a townie that could be helpful every time. If we Lynch the Miller claim we possibly hit scum. We possibly hit a negative utility. We DO NOT risk another claim day 1. We do not risk wasting a mislynch on a townie that is not a negative utility while leaving a negative utility on the board that WILL NOT be killed by scum.
For this to be true it requires you to think out only way of winning is through power roles and not day play.

And my day play ability is why I want to get to day 2 because I believe the entire point of the game is to focus on day play.
discrediting and undermining my play. nice. I'd lynch the best mafia player of all time if he hurt town more than he could help. No matter what you say or do you have to be lynched sooner than later due to your claim. sorry im not letting your gambit work unlike the rest of the player list. Nice to meet you though.
Your twisting of points is admirable. However.

I need you to explain how requiring my lynch day 1 bc I can't be confirmed by a cop doesn't mean you don't think town can win without a cop.

Because your vehemence is more than anyone should care unless they think the game is unwinnable with me here.
The thing is... you can't be cleared by ANY means. That means you are a liability.
Did not respond.
In post 719, Quick wrote:
In post 717, JaydragonKing wrote:I think I was vote number 6? One more is needed. Espeonage, if you want to leave, mind hammering yourself? Just to confirm.
Oh NOW you want a quick lynch...
Did not respond
In post 728, Quick wrote:
In post 586, Dunkerdoodles wrote:going to agree with chilly here
VOTE: espeonage
i still think jay is town, arch is scum
tchill town
i'll get back with some more reads later
Why did you keep Jay and Arch on the same line?
Did not respond.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Post Post #841 (isolation #80) » Mon Dec 11, 2017 12:49 pm

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In post 740, UnaBombaH wrote:No S_S, you don't even get to be pissed.
I however, am just fcking mad.
I go to sleep and wake to a lynch that shouldn't have happened.

I explicitly told that I knew he was a Miller - and yet people never bothered to give me a chance to explain myself before hammering him at the end of the day.


I admit, I had my own reasons why I didn't want him to be lynched before D2/D3..and I'm so pissed I almost feel like not sharing at this point anymore.

I want one of quick/chill lynched today, I can come up with reasons if need be, but let's not fastlynch yet. (hence no vote)
I feel like chill has a good probability of flipping scum because he focused all of his D1 on Miller-talk.

Oh, and something sort of important to add, thanks to the committee and the Esp. lynch..
I am now a Miller too.

Thanks. :facepalm:
If you want to attack Chill on his miller talk D1, then you have to attack his reasoning on why lynching Miller was a bad idea. Otherwise it's just a gut read.

Why are you now a miller too?
https://youtu.be/LRkYiRnRzY0

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Post Post #842 (isolation #81) » Mon Dec 11, 2017 12:52 pm

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In post 743, JaydragonKing wrote:I'm still shocked there's a fricken thing called a cleric. No wonder he said he'd be confirmed tommorow.

Now here's the million dollar question... How in the hell did he die?

Did mafia attack him first because he said he'd be confirmed day 2, leaving a third party (vig or Sk) to murder Uzi? Or did mafia murder Uzi, but WhyMafia went for someone he trusted and town read so they can prove him tommorow, but they were actually mafia?

--- Post Edit ---

I only did it because he was going to leave. You all saw me going for Archwing the entire time, and then Quick at the end.

I'm also guessing by his tone that UnaBombaH claims Backup turned Miller.
IDK what Scum team kills Uzi here unless it's a fear kill, which is possible. I'm leaning that it's a SK Kill but it could also be a vig kill.
https://youtu.be/LRkYiRnRzY0

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Post Post #843 (isolation #82) » Mon Dec 11, 2017 12:53 pm

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In post 747, UnaBombaH wrote:
In post 743, JaydragonKing wrote:I'm also guessing by his tone that UnaBombaH claims Backup turned Miller.
It doesn't matter what I claim yet, but I am a Miller now.
You can go read my ISO, and realize that I made it very clear too.
The only good thing about this is that I can confirm myself as town if need be, so scum have to waste a NK on a low-level player like me.
I'm still legit pissed - been raging at this situation ever since I woke up to find the lynch had occured.. :yawn:
HOW are you a miller now?
https://youtu.be/LRkYiRnRzY0

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Post Post #849 (isolation #83) » Mon Dec 11, 2017 1:07 pm

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Una prolly Town here. Chill is Town based on such a sharp contrast between when I saw then as Scum.

Still think Ari looks bad here.

VOTE: Ari

I think Dunk looks bad as well. Kinda TRing Jay based on their approach to the new day.
https://youtu.be/LRkYiRnRzY0

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Post Post #855 (isolation #84) » Mon Dec 11, 2017 1:15 pm

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In post 850, Flavor Leaf wrote:People town reading Tchill; why do you think whyMafia didn’t target Tchill. Nobody has come out as blessed yet either, meaning that scum was likely targeted.

If you guys aren’t claiming anything, I’m going to assume you aren’t blessed, and I will push you later.

Jay and I both agreed on people claiming blessed/not blessed. There is absolutely no down side.
WM and Chill had quite a few differences of opinion throughout the day yesterday. I think trying to out guess what actually happened during the night is counter productive.
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Post Post #856 (isolation #85) » Mon Dec 11, 2017 1:15 pm

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In post 853, Flavor Leaf wrote:
In post 852, Dunkerdoodles wrote:i wasn't blessed
boon i highly doubt you turned miller
I’ve already basically claimed how it happened, LOL.
Then you should be explicit about that.
https://youtu.be/LRkYiRnRzY0

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Post Post #859 (isolation #86) » Mon Dec 11, 2017 1:27 pm

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In post 858, Flavor Leaf wrote:
In post 855, Quick wrote:
In post 850, Flavor Leaf wrote:People town reading Tchill; why do you think whyMafia didn’t target Tchill. Nobody has come out as blessed yet either, meaning that scum was likely targeted.

If you guys aren’t claiming anything, I’m going to assume you aren’t blessed, and I will push you later.

Jay and I both agreed on people claiming blessed/not blessed. There is absolutely no down side.
WM and Chill had quite a few differences of opinion throughout the day yesterday. I think trying to out guess what actually happened during the night is counter productive.
I disagree. That’s mafia for you, and analyzing things and picking what you think is most likely true is best. Analyze to minimize failure.
I just disagree that you should be using conclusions based on what you can't actually know to direct your play to be an err in play.
https://youtu.be/LRkYiRnRzY0

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Post Post #860 (isolation #87) » Mon Dec 11, 2017 1:29 pm

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In post 857, Flavor Leaf wrote:
In post 856, Quick wrote:
In post 853, Flavor Leaf wrote:
In post 852, Dunkerdoodles wrote:i wasn't blessed
boon i highly doubt you turned miller
I’ve already basically claimed how it happened, LOL.
Then you should be explicit about that.
Probably, but you literally just played a game with me where I was bouncing all over the place with my claim, and you tunneled because of it.

I do town read you based on your wagon being killed off as scum, though.

Honestly, what probably happened was scum was trying to frame Quick or WhyMafia today, so they killed LUV.
Your point is moot because I admitted fault there and so I'm not likely to do the same thing again. I also disagree in principle that you should claim more than once in a game to get reactions because of it's potential to WIFOM Town more than Scum.
https://youtu.be/LRkYiRnRzY0

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Post Post #871 (isolation #88) » Mon Dec 11, 2017 1:58 pm

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In post 869, Archwing wrote:Not blessed.

Quick game theory question... Maybe Tchill would be best to answer this... Do we also lynch claimed Miller d2? If we take at face value, una and boon, we now have 2 more conf towns.

Also, I know its been briefly addressed, but I wanna echo that nk'ing LUV was a weird play. It makes sense why WM died though. Unless like others suggested... Vig or SK exist. Is there any benefit to a vig claim? I would think not this early in the game.
The way I would assess this is what the reactions people who are claiming miller this day's reaction were to the Miller claim D1. Una is pretty justified here. Flavor actually looks pretty bad if we just look at the miller claim and where the votes were D1.
https://youtu.be/LRkYiRnRzY0

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Post Post #884 (isolation #89) » Mon Dec 11, 2017 3:13 pm

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In post 877, Dunkerdoodles wrote:VOTE: archwing
still think this is scum from day 1
Got any reasoning to back up this vote?
https://youtu.be/LRkYiRnRzY0

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Post Post #906 (isolation #90) » Tue Dec 12, 2017 2:00 pm

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I am not blessed. I checked a few different times because I had no idea what I was looking for. Why would that be Scummy Flavor, hmm?
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Post Post #908 (isolation #91) » Tue Dec 12, 2017 2:32 pm

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In post 907, Flavor Leaf wrote:
In post 906, Quick wrote:I am not blessed. I checked a few different times because I had no idea what I was looking for. Why would that be Scummy Flavor, hmm?
Because it looked like you were waiting it out to see if you could fake saying you were blessed or not. Why wouldn’t that be scummy? Hmm?
Prolly because IDEK what it means to be blessed.
https://youtu.be/LRkYiRnRzY0

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Post Post #910 (isolation #92) » Tue Dec 12, 2017 3:31 pm

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Whoever said we are not in a bad spot unless we get another mislynch doesn't know what they are talking about. We have 2 more miller claims and 3 Town dead. That puts Town in a pretty bad spot IMO. A Scum lynch can help turn things around, but if we lose another 2 more Town by next game day Town is in a really bad spot rn.
https://youtu.be/LRkYiRnRzY0

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Post Post #1632 (isolation #93) » Sat Dec 30, 2017 4:34 am

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Ari was obvScum I knew Flavor was Scum when he started spouting BS about whoever having a gun.
https://youtu.be/LRkYiRnRzY0

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Post Post #1655 (isolation #94) » Sat Dec 30, 2017 6:37 am

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In post 1634, Espeonage wrote:you *clap* don't *clap* lynch *clap* miller *clap* claims *clap* day *clap* one *clap*

ESPECIALLY IF THEY ARE FUCKING GOOD AT THE GAME.

Also there is no world where a competent town doesn't lynch Chill day 2 because he was flat out IGNORING SHIT to get a lynch through. That is never a town thing to do.

Quick is just a fucking idiot and I'm currently trying to work out why the foe list doesn't extend to sitechat.
I disagree. I think you lynch a miller claim D1 every time. Whether they are "good" or not makes not difference at all.
https://youtu.be/LRkYiRnRzY0

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Post Post #1664 (isolation #95) » Sat Dec 30, 2017 8:28 am

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In post 1658, Something_Smart wrote:
In post 1656, Tchill13 wrote:On a serious note I don't understand why you wouldn't Lynch Miller day 1.
Let's see... we would have had two more mislynches to work with, two confirmed town players by day 2, and the UB likely inheriting town's strongest PR...

Nah, I don't understand it either. ;)
That is being results oriented over being process oriented.
https://youtu.be/LRkYiRnRzY0

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Post Post #1705 (isolation #96) » Sat Dec 30, 2017 2:35 pm

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In post 1684, Archwing wrote:Why did I believe the wolves?!
Because all the best Scum players are really damn good at spewing bull shit that people swallow hook line and sinker. Don't blame yourself, boon's an excellent Scum player. It's hard to catch guys like him without a guilty.
https://youtu.be/LRkYiRnRzY0

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Post Post #1706 (isolation #97) » Sat Dec 30, 2017 2:42 pm

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In post 1705, Quick wrote:
In post 1684, Archwing wrote:Why did I believe the wolves?!
Because all the best Scum players are really damn good at spewing bull shit that people swallow hook line and sinker. Don't blame yourself, boon's an excellent Scum player. It's hard to catch guys like him without a guilty.
And that is exactly why I pushed Boon so hard in our previous game fwiw. I don't give people like Boon an easy TR.
https://youtu.be/LRkYiRnRzY0

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Post Post #1710 (isolation #98) » Fri Jan 05, 2018 10:31 pm

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Is it weird I thought the thread was locked after seeing Ari post here?
https://youtu.be/LRkYiRnRzY0

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Post Post #1726 (isolation #99) » Sat Jan 06, 2018 12:29 pm

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In post 1724, sheepsaysmeep wrote:doesnt the list mod usually get the last post before locking it
I laughed at that way more than I should have.
https://youtu.be/LRkYiRnRzY0

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