Scummies Ideas, Suggestions and Comments Thread

[LicketyQuickety]

I mentioned this in the actual Scummies 2017 thread, but I think I like the idea of having a "Most Improved" body of work award. The key difference between this award and "Rising Star" is that "Rising Star" measures how someone starts playing when they first get here as opposed to the distinction of players who have turned their game around in one way or another to bring their game to new heights. Some people are "late bloomers" so they have no chance of getting an award like "Rising Star." It also wouldn't be contingent on a player being a superior player according to other players but being a superior player compared to their own play. I feel this fits nicely into being somewhat of a niche award all the while being general enough for the award to have some overall significance and can definitely motivate players to try and bring their A game each and every game they play.

[LicketyQuickety]

I mentioned this in the actual Scummies 2017 thread, but I think I like the idea of having a "Most Improved" body of work award. The key difference between this award and "Rising Star" is that "Rising Star" measures how someone starts playing when they first get here as opposed to the distinction of players who have turned their game around in one way or another to bring their game to new heights. Some people are "late bloomers" so they have no chance of getting an award like "Rising Star." It also wouldn't be contingent on a player being a superior player according to other players but being a superior player compared to their own play. I feel this fits nicely into being somewhat of a niche award all the while being general enough for the award to have some overall significance and can definitely motivate players to try and bring their A game each and every game they play.

Rising Star:

This award is given to the player that is a rising star in the game of mafia, showing great promise to join the elite echelon of mafia players. This award replaces both the Best Newbie award and Most Improved Player awards, and judges may consider elements of both those previous awards in deciding this award.

Has a vet actually ever won or been nominated a "Rising Star" Award?

[LicketyQuickety]

know of any vets who deserve one?

I don't think I have been around long enough to say, honestly.

[LicketyQuickety]

Well then I think it just sucks that only newer players are the only ones getting nominated for these awards :/

And let me be clear, I don't think I am really that much of a vet honestly and I have been here almost 2 years. I sorta set a number in my head that 100 games is where I think I will be proficient at the game. Other's milage may vary, but when you have people who have been here over 10 years it makes these players who are winning these awards look like infants.

[LicketyQuickety]

What about a lifetime award type of thing?

And I say that knowing damn well I will never win that one.

[LicketyQuickety]

Is there a nice little thread with a condensed version of who won what when?

[LicketyQuickety]

I don't think 2016 is updated yet, but this has it: https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... y:Scummies

Thank you.

I don't mean to be a pain in the ass, I hope you know that.

[LicketyQuickety]

Just so I better understand how this works (so I don't have to make a fool of myself again), what is the process for choosing what awards will be given for the following year/what is considered when coming up with awards from year to year?

[LicketyQuickety]

Awards are fairly stable from year to year. There aren't any current plans to add or remove categories this year, I don't believe.

I am just curious as to the process how they are chosen so I can put my mind at ease and not have to think about it anymore. I need a reason to see how it makes sense. I realize that changes wont be made for this year, that wasn't my original intention.

[LicketyQuickety]

A group of people, the scummies steering committee, talks about awards and each year evaluates whether awards need to be removed, added or changed. This past year was probably the largest single-year change with the removal and consolidation of a number of awards.

Thanks, I won't press.

[LicketyQuickety]

I'm not trying to be cagey or anything. What I described is pretty much exactly what happens. Whether an award is added, changed or removed is entirely based on what the SSC values.

That came out wrong. When I want to know how something works, I want to know exactly how it works. I could figure out that a group of people talk about what to do with the awards on my own. I wanted to know the details into what exactly is considered when the group is talking about things and I can only guess. That said, I understand that it prolly is not imperative that I know that and I respect you enough to know when I feel like I am wasting your time.

[LicketyQuickety]

i for one will not play coy about my need for attention

I miss your old avatar already.

[LicketyQuickety]

"Blast from the past" maybe? Older vet players (At least 3 years old) who came back form an extended break and had a great game?

I like the idea of that. A little too specific I think though. We'll see what people have to say about it.

[LicketyQuickety]

I have a great idea for the Scummies!

People make more nominations!

I will try and keep my eye's open.

[LicketyQuickety]

OK, so I can already tell this prolly is a pretty controversial idea but what if we had a "Most Feared Hydra" award?

[LicketyQuickety]

OK, so I can already tell this prolly is a pretty controversial idea but what if we had a "Most Feared Hydra" award?

Give it to all hydras because I fear that they ruin games for everyone else.

NVM...

I didn't come here to start a debate...

[LicketyQuickety]

OK, so I can already tell this prolly is a pretty controversial idea but what if we had a "Most Feared Hydra" award?

feared in the sense of "this hydra ruins games by being generally shit" or feared in the sense of "this hydra ruins games by being toxic"?

LOL... Neither. I meant the hydra that is feared because they are good as both Town and Scum. Like a very balanced hydra that is generally always good and feared by their opponents.

[LicketyQuickety]

Why do you think we need that when we literally had a hydra win the best scum player award this year

1. Hydra's are actually a thing. What I mean is that I think it would be best if people stop burying their heads in the sand fighting the inevitability that Hydra's are very very popular amongst players and I think more regular playing players do do Hydras than do not. Giving a Hydra a specific award gives Hydra players an incentive to play to the best of their ability, to elevate their play to something they couldn't do by themselves alone. It adds a layer of competition to Hydra play - especially but not limited to Hydra only games.
   
2. I don't think Hydra's should be able to be eligible to win the Body of Work and Single Game awards. I think things like winning Most Cunning Manipulator is a lot easier to win if you are in a Hydra with someone. Not to take away the Skill that is found in Malakittens and Plotinus, because I respect both players play a lot. But with awards like Most Cunning Manipulator, its almost like having a Team within a Team and I feel that all the single player awards and body of work awards should be specific to individual players. Two heads are better that one, and I think it gives Hydra players an edge when considering who is the "Best" - singular.

There should be a single "Best" for any award that can be won by a single person and a special award that is specific to Hydra play. I do think that when considering Moderation that Hydras should be eligible. And I say this not considering in the slightest that Mala and Plot should be stripped of their title - they deserved it.

[LicketyQuickety]

i dont see how it's any different. awarding hydra play separately is basically saying that hydras do not occupy the same slot as a single player and that is literally an argument to just shut down hydras entirely

How so? I have played with several hydras and I enjoy them immensely. I just don't think they should be eligible for winning an award that should be for one person all the while giving them something to actually win.

don't reward hydras

My idea does 2 things:

1. Prevents Hydras from being able to be nominated for an otherwise single player accomplishment.
   
2. Gives Hydras a place for an award.

Secondly, if Hydras are so hated, why do we even allow them on this site?

[LicketyQuickety]

because people are stupid.

:/

That doesn't seem like a very knowledgeable reason.

[LicketyQuickety]

You misunderstand. I am not arguing for whether or not Hydras are a good thing or bad thing. I am arguing that they shouldn't be able to be nominated for an award because they have an unfair advantage and to give them their proper place with a separate award for all things Hydra. Being in a Hydra DOES give you an advantage, there should be NO qualms about this. And it makes literally no difference if they act as a single slot or not because they have an advantage that players who aren't in a Hydra or better yet are against Hydras don't have. The point that a hydra functions as a single slot is a moot point. There is a reason I don't include my Hydras in my game history and that is because I don't consider Hydra play as valid as compared to when I am by myself. I Hydra for fun, nothing more, nothing less.

That said, given your links, Hydras are here to stay so they might as well be part of the awards which is the ONLY reason I can see for them actually winning an award, specifically an award that only Hydra can win and one of the very few (if not unlikely) to win.

[LicketyQuickety]

if they have an unfair advantage they shouldnt be allowed at all

hydras are not an unfair advantage so they are allowed. that means they are one player slot

When comparing a Hydra to other Hydras there is no advantage, hence why a Hydra only award makes sense when considering them not being able to be nominated for other awards.

[LicketyQuickety]

I think I have a good idea here. I also think people are not listening to me because its me and not someone else. *shrug*

[LicketyQuickety]

I might regret this, but I would really like to know why. So far I have gotten answers such as "Hydra's are bad" and "That will limit Hydra participation" and "We don't want to encourage Hydras" then people just saying "Its a bad idea" without explaining why.

No one has yet to actually explain

why

its a bad idea. They think they know what I am saying, but the arguments against what I suggest doesn't match what I am saying.

[LicketyQuickety]

#Hated

[LicketyQuickety]

I don't personally care for hydras, but I could see a justification for having "best hydra" as an award. I don't think a "most feared" thing makes sense, but an award for positively contributing to a game in a noteworthy way would make sense.

"Most Feared" was just a name I threw out there. I don't really care what its called. Just having a specific place for Hydra's while keeping most other awards for single player play is all I am really suggesting here.

BTW, I didn't know that Plot and Mala actually won the MCM award when I originally thought of the idea. I just assumed it was a single player when I looked through who won what awards. Its not meant to be a dis to them at all.

[LicketyQuickety]

I have also Hydraed with Nacho more than once, but we are not really well known.

[LicketyQuickety]

Actually, it is my goal to Hydra with the same people I have more often. Wouldn't mind Hydraing with a few people I have Hydraed with in the past.

[LicketyQuickety]

Why do you think we need that when we literally had a hydra win the best scum player award this year

1. Hydra's are actually a thing. What I mean is that I think it would be best if people stop burying their heads in the sand fighting the inevitability that Hydra's are very very popular amongst players and I think more regular playing players do do Hydras than do not. Giving a Hydra a specific award gives Hydra players an incentive to play to the best of their ability, to elevate their play to something they couldn't do by themselves alone. It adds a layer of competition to Hydra play - especially but not limited to Hydra only games.
   
2. I don't think Hydra's should be able to be eligible to win the Body of Work and Single Game awards. I think things like winning Most Cunning Manipulator is a lot easier to win if you are in a Hydra with someone. Not to take away the Skill that is found in Malakittens and Plotinus, because I respect both players play a lot. But with awards like Most Cunning Manipulator, its almost like having a Team within a Team and I feel that all the single player awards and body of work awards should be specific to individual players. Two heads are better that one, and I think it gives Hydra players an edge when considering who is the "Best" - singular.

There should be a single "Best" for any award that can be won by a single person and a special award that is specific to Hydra play. I do think that when considering Moderation that Hydras should be eligible. And I say this not considering in the slightest that Mala and Plot should be stripped of their title - they deserved it.

It kind of seems like you're holistically making the point that the degree of difficulty is lower with a hydra and therefore they need separate awards. If the degree of difficulty truly is lower, that means hydras have an unfair advantage and therefore should not be allowed in games at all.

Additionally, the argument that hydras are "inevitable" is funny considering they've been around for like six years now and haven't had significant numerical growth for a years.

Part of the conditions to my argument are that Hydras are here to stay and are a pretty big part of the site, yeah. You did get the argument right in the first paragraph so that at least makes me feel understood, which is good.

[LicketyQuickety]

that doesn't address what I said. are you asserting that hydras have a lower degree of difficulty than single-player slots or not?

I am saying at the very least in theory Hydras have a lower difficulty, yes.

[LicketyQuickety]

usually when you introduce a "special" category, it's because otherwise they participants would have a hard time competing in the "open" section. For examples, the LPGA is for women because professional women generally can't hit the ball as far as professional men. Under 18 national soccer teams are for teenagers because adults play better and are more physically able.

You don't generally introduce a special category to further celebrate the people who would already win the open category.

I don't think it is the same situation here, but I digress.

[LicketyQuickety]

Uhg.

[LicketyQuickety]

I feel like there should be an award for making yourself look Town. Is this covered in any of the awards?

[LicketyQuickety]

I have a Town read on Nexus.

VOTE: hiplop

[LicketyQuickety]

Please don't make mafia jokes. They aren't funny.

That's the whole point of the joke. Some people actually play that way, so I was more making a point of how NOT to get Town read.

[LicketyQuickety]

the thing with that is that towniness pretty much maxes out as "completely obvtown" which happens quite often

There is a level beyond. A land of wonder and of bliss.

Its called:

God tier.

[LicketyQuickety]

the thing with that is that towniness pretty much maxes out as "completely obvtown" which happens quite often

There is a level beyond. A land of wonder and of bliss.

Its called:

God tier.

But what separates that from completely obvtown, a player who you would barely rather lynch than yourself?

Tells. Tells galore.

[LicketyQuickety]

the thing with that is that towniness pretty much maxes out as "completely obvtown" which happens quite often

There is a level beyond. A land of wonder and of bliss.

Its called:

God tier.

But what separates that from completely obvtown, a player who you would barely rather lynch than yourself?

Tells. Tells galore.

So is that all that seperates complete obvtown from godtier town more towntells? Because all that would mean to me is "yah this is town"

Meh, I don't feel like continuing the joke.

[LicketyQuickety]

I tried using links once so that I could link every game I every played on the MS wiki, but most (if not all) links were considered spam

[LicketyQuickety]

I tried using links once so that I could link every game I every played on the MS wiki, but most (if not all) links were considered spam

Links to MS were considered spam? That sounds like a bug.

No, I meant all my games as in most of them, as in from all the sites I have played on (around 13 or 14, I lose track)

[LicketyQuickety]

Anyone else still thinks Best Town Performance should be brought back?

Absolutely!

[LicketyQuickety]

I'm new but if you could make profiles customizable with music, images, and such that would be great!!!

And listing your top 8?

you laugh, but i had Tom in my top 8

Myspace was the successor of Napster, IMO. Napster GOAT.

[LicketyQuickety]

I was throwing around the idea of merit based achievements instead of the classical way scummies are handled with someone over aim the other day. The entire process for awarding them atm seems flawed because I think judges are rarely as invested as they'd need to be to make strong choices, and the nomination process requires you actually get nominated for a given award. Examples of achievements being something like winning > x% of your town games, winning > y% of your scum games, never getting mislynched as town, never getting lynched as mafia, being in a game where you were only on scum lynches. I'm sure you guys can think of more. The idea would be objective awards that could be handed out to any number of people.

Issues with this are the current method of display of scummies, and actually tracking it all, but hopefully that would be worked out on the backed of the site by next year (which if I understand correctly is what you are taking suggestions for?)

I actually like the idea of this. Ofc the way the trend of Scummies is going, I think regarding Town wins it would just get wrapped up with Paragon. Not really a fan of having all these super multi utility Scummy awards really, but I'm not on the committee that comes up with the awards so /shrug