Open 704: Switch (Game Over)

[mutantdevle]

VOTE: mutantdevle
No walls from you kthx

Rude.

VOTE: mathdino

Eww, maths. But awesome, dinosaurs. Ugh I'm so god damn conflicted.

[mutantdevle]

UNVOTE:

Why do you scum read me? I'm just a pretty little flower over here minding my own business.

[mutantdevle]

VOTE: mutantdevle

I don't like post #29 either

Seems like an over-reaction to only one guy kinda scumreading you

Please tell me that you’re not seriously describing my joke post as an over reaction...

[mutantdevle]

Maybe 'trying a bit too hard to be jokey'?

idk, still kinda rubbed me the wrong way

I mean, I could rub you the other way if you want me to?

[mutantdevle]

The tone in both of these posts feels really bad. Robotic and shit. Can someone who's played with mutant before read this for me?

I think that out of everyone here, Elmo would be your go-to person to get a read on me in regards to my meta. Though I can tell you that my current posts don't really match my meta too much since I haven't been taking this game seriously yet.

[mutantdevle]

@mutant: Gun to your head; where would you vote?

Probably Sauce. Their posts feel distracting and don't really contribute anything despite having the second most posts so far. Though I guess that's kinda hypocritical of me since I haven't really done anything yet. I had to re-read the entire thread to reach that conclusion though. The re-read has probably made me more interested in the game so I should be posting better quality now.

Sadly for Elmo, that means potential walls

[mutantdevle]

Almost50, mutant, Elmo, Not_Mafia, sheep me, let's get a good wagon going.

Why? The game is fresh and not really much has happened. I don't get why you'd want a wagon on Bins, any particular reason? I don't really see anything wrong with her posts, or anything at all for that matter. So if this wagon is simply just to apply pressure to her to make her talk more then I can get on board with that. If there's some other reason you are voting for her though then I'd love to hear it. However typically, I don't tend to sheep.

[mutantdevle]

If the SK is our only way of switching the mafia PRs so that they don't work then surely we need the SK alive? Both town and the SK need the scum dead in order to win the game. Mafia obviously wins if they gain majority so the SK would want the scum dead first. So not only does the SK's switch abilities help us, but we also share the common objective of wanting to eliminate the mafia.

The way I see it, the SK is an ally of town that will eventually betray us. If the SK was ever at L-1 and roleclaimed, then I think we should keep them alive. If that turns out to be a mafia fake claiming then the SK will know and just kill them at night. If a townie ever fakeclaims SK just to keep themselves alive, then they are an anti-town piece of shit. And then obviously if we do get a SK role claim, we can just lynch them when the mafia is eliminated.

[mutantdevle]

I really cant believe this.

I don't see why. Not only is my statement logical but surely you out of everyone here knows that this is the type of statement I am inclined to make?

This sketches me out a little bit because it seems to imply that you feel SK definitely picked Vig/Cop immunity and not Mafia NK immunity. If they didn't pick Vig/Cop immunity, they would be working their hardest to switch the stuff off as well and wouldn't fuck with the Mafia's switches.

What the SK has picked was not of concern to me when I wrote that statement. Regardless of what the SK picked, the fundamental fact is that they are required to kill the other scum before us in order to win.


Also, if the SK were ever at the point of no return and faced with an angry lynch mob then they'd be faced with a choice. Either they could roleclaim as the SK and side with town to help them win and defeat the mafia or they could let their lynch go through meaning they no longer have to play which helps the mafia more than it does us. I don't see why any SK would want to roleclaim but if they were kind enough to do so then I say let 'em live. I guess it just depends on how much their scum reads piss them off.

[mutantdevle]

@mutant: I'd disagree on the bit of letting any claimed scum live, as I'm against the idea of leashing scum in general (and I'm thankful Wisdom is not here to counter my argument).

The last a recent game I played (open 700) the town did just that (let the claimed SK live) and it almost cost as the game, as the "claimed SK" was actually the 2nd Mafia member!! Lynching them o the spot would have revealed a LOT of info (game mechanics dictated flips were hidden until the killer was flipped). The Mafia did help us in a way by actually targeting the real SK to end up in a 2v1 LyLo rather than a 1v1v1 in which case we would have lost regardless bc No Lynch wasn't even an option.

Regardless, I'm always against the leashing of claimed/guiltied Scum on principle.

I'd say it is more that mechanic that would have almost screwed them over rather than the notion of keeping the SK alive. If a SK does not kill a fake claiming scum lord then we'd simply get a guaranteed successful lynch when the SK flips. All in all, I just think having the SK as the last person we lynch to win is the best case scenario as a mafia member fake claiming SK will equal itself out eventually if not immediately.

[mutantdevle]

I should of stuck with my first vote

VOTE: mutantdevle

he ignored giving any reads or analysis and popped in just to talk theory.

Bins did not "scumslip"
i'm not convinced she's town but mutant is the first solid scumtell i have here so far

I'm an ask and you shall receive kind of guy. If you ever want me to give my reads at any point during the game then simply just ask me. I'm not one for missing questions.

My current reads list:

Town:

Almost50
Mathdino

Town Lean:

Lalendra
Bins
Raya36

Null:

havingfitz
Maxous
Chip Butty
Elmo TeH AzN

Espeonage
Jodaxq

Scum Lean:

Not_Mafia
Sauce

Scum:

None.


If you need me to elaborate on any of these then feel free to ask.

[mutantdevle]

If I knew right now who the SK is, I would lynch them without a second thought. Even if it is in their interests to work with town for now, they're still more likely to shoot town than scum. We're looking at potentially 3 deaths per day/night cycle, and could lose real quick.

You realise the mafia have a vig right? We are facing up to 4 deaths per day/night cycle. If the SK dies, their vig basically has the freedom to have a guaranteed kill every night. The SK has at least a chance to hit scum. In contrast, a mafia vig is always going to hit town.

[mutantdevle]

I don't believe his blatant misunderstanding of the setup is intentional.

Sorry, but what exactly am I misunderstanding? As town, we share a common objective with the SK to eliminate the mafia. Furthermore, the SK is useful to us because of how they can mess with the switches. As soon as the SK dies, we lose all our PRs with them as the remaining scum will just activate the switches so that they can use additional abilities and we can't. If we knew who the SK was, we could save them until the end to lynch them. That way, we get to keep the 50/50 chance that our PRs get to use their ability. If you want another reason to keep the SK alive, then consider that the SK counts as town in regards to the mafia having to gain a majority to win. I'm not saying we should hunt for the SK specifically, but if they were ever to reveal themselves to us then we should keep them alive until the very end as the scum would be in a far stronger position compared to us when the SK is dead.

mutant, talk to me about Bins and Raya. I obviously disagree with you so you should explain where you're at in reading them as town.

Bins: She casually mentions her reads which is always useful for reading her and is engaging in conversation more so than most. I think her confusion with the switching mechanic is fair enough and not something that is scummy. Her only scummy action is how she thought we should be prioritising finding the SK. To me though, that looks like a genuine thought spawned by the logic that 1 less night kill = better for town. Obviously, this logic has since been proven to be flawed due to the SK additional switch abilities but Bins has stated she didn't recognise that the SK had such a strong power which I believe to be the truth on her part. I do recognise the possibility that she is faking the confusion as a way of getting out of such a scum slip which is why she is a town lean for me rather than a town read.

Raya: Despite not saying a lot, the posts she does have seem of good quality to me. She is also scum hunting by asking a few question here and there as well as making criticisms of other's comments. Obviously, she isn't pushing anyone too much but I figure that's understandable at this stage in the game. Finally, I really don't see how she has done anything scummy at all; all of her posts feel genuine to me.

[mutantdevle]

Espeonage
Jodaxq

I thought I removed that from that post... obviously, they are town (and also dead).

[mutantdevle]

tl;dr read the setup again so we can get back to the game

Well, I'm completely fucking stupid... I thought the scum had those PRs but also had the ability to change the switch. Hence, if they wanted to switch then they cannot use their ability, and if they want to use their ability, they cannot perform the night kill. So the SK isn't as powerful as I thought and eliminating them will reduce the number of night kills by 1. My mistake.

[mutantdevle]

You should be looking at motivation behind posts, not quality as a player.

I look at both.

I understand your points on both of them but that doesn't convince me they are scummy. You've convinced me that I shouldn't be town leaning them for it but I am yet to believe the scum intent behind their actions.

Bins is defensive. I don't scum read her for that because I am also a defensive player. I am starting to see slight scum in responding to points not directed at her, but that alone isn't enough to make me scum lean. She is null for me now.

I don't really see what you see in Raya tbh, but I don't think she is as town as I thought.

[mutantdevle]

Can you give a reads list again (updated if any updates are applicable) and sell me on your scumreads? Your nullreads (fitz, Max, Chip, Elmo) have posted since then I think. Any thoughts on them?

Town:

Almost50
Mathdino

Town Lean:

Bins - Thinking about it, I stick by my town lean on bins. Originally, I was just taking Math's word for it that bins was defending hereself against points about her that weren't adressed to her. But when I looked back at it, I'm not so sure I see that. It seems to me that the defence he is refering to is actually bins just explaining her confusion. @mathdino, mind pointing out in which posts bins is defending herself against points that aren't directed to her?

Null:

Lalendra - Their lack of contribution has dropped their town lean to a null.
Raya36 - Thier lack of contribution and how easily they backed off of Elmo without much explanation has dropped their town lean to a null.
havingfitz - Hasn't said anything since last list.
Maxous - Hasn't said anything since last list.
Chip Butty - Hasn't said anything since last list.
Elmo TeH AzN - Hasn't said anything significant since last list.

Scum Lean:

Not_Mafia - Hasn't contributed anything to the discussion at all. Wouldn't surprise me if they replaced out.
Sauce - Everything they have done is incredibly minimilistic.

Scum:

None.

[mutantdevle]

@mathdino, mind pointing out in which posts bins is defending herself against points that aren't directed to her?

Sure. I'll be more specific.

48 was flippantly calling my slight gut read on her into question.
56 had a random bit of self-meta defence against my (again, slight) read on her.
81 unnecessarily interjects into a meta discussion/question I had for A50.

The rest was in response to me talking more directly to her.

They all seem quite minor to me.

[mutantdevle]

you only have one completed game on this site but this does *not* check out buddy


you were perfectly fine giving your own reads there without anyone asking.

I never said I wasn't capable of giving my reads without someone asking. My point was that the vote wasn't necessary as to get any information out of me all you have to do is ask.

[mutantdevle]

you only have one completed game on this site but this does *not* check out buddy


you were perfectly fine giving your own reads there without anyone asking.

I never said I wasn't capable of giving my reads without someone asking. My point was that the vote wasn't necessary as to get any information out of me all you have to do is ask.

[mutantdevle]

And @Sauce seriously just look at your own ISO... Up until your most recent post, all you had done was shit post, fluff and post the occasional kinda helpful 1 liner. That isn't exactly very townie of you.

[mutantdevle]

VOTE: mutantdevle

Care you explain the vote?

[mutantdevle]

i don't know much about SK hunting but this reads a LOT like SK

I'm inclined to agree. It makes sense that a SK would scum read everyone since they know that every single person in the game is against them.

Regardless, even if they are not the SK, scum reading everyone (or near enough to it) is in itself rather scummy.

[mutantdevle]

Not_Mafia: mutant/Bins/Raya/fitz and would presumably be willing to hammer anyone (classic N_M)

I'm also a player that tends to hammer anyone as a compromise lynch. The only time I refrain from hammering is if either the wagon is on someone I am 90+% sure is town or I believe they are a town PR. Currently, I don't have that level of certainty on anyone.

[mutantdevle]

@MD: Is there anything much other than meta behind your Raya vote?

I've looked at the ISOs of MD, NM, Raya, and A50 just now, but I still need to go back and do a proper readthrough. Will answer any questions / comments addressed to me then.

Can you not use 'MD' as an abbreviation for Mathdino, please? It's incredibly confusing, kek.

[mutantdevle]

Oh shit, I genuinely thought Bins was townie. Guess I was wrong (obviously).

I made a mental note to myself earlier that I thought bins and sauce seemed friendly. But rereading the parts where they mention each other I have no idea why. Other than that, on gut I would say that from rereading Bins' ISO her potential scum partners are Elmo and maxous.

Btw, we should probably ignore everything bins says now. OFC she's going to try and throw us off and confuse us.

Oh and don't lynch Bins until the end of the day. I would have said to not lynch Bins at all until MyLo but then Fitz reminded me that Bins could be the vig switch. If she is, it would be VERY useful to have her lynched today.

[mutantdevle]

I think we are playing with a vanilla townie fitz. As a PR, my (to be fair quite small) experience with fitz is that he likes to blend in more. Personally, I consider scum roles as PR roles even as goons. Basically, if fitz was scum, I don’t think he’d be drawing attention to himself. Especially not with such a bold claim as distrusting the hard claimed cop. I just think he is being sceptical and cautious of the claim due to past experiences.

[mutantdevle]

I think Bins is lying but whatever Kill mutant

VOTE: Raya

Can you please explain why you want me dead so much? You never did when I questioned your vote.

[mutantdevle]

VOTE: Bins

If you were able to prove you were the SK then I might have taken you up on that leash offer. But alas, we shall not know until you are lynched.

[mutantdevle]

'Tis L-1 I believe.

[mutantdevle]

AHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAH

Get fucked bins. Lol. You just exposed yourself as the SK.



Unless this new post is a gambit to not get shot?

[mutantdevle]

Unless this new post is a gambit for a reaction test?

[mutantdevle]

Unless Math is mafia and was trying to expose the cop but go the SK instead?

[mutantdevle]

Well regardless of if any of the above whack ideas are true or not, thanks for exposing the SK Math. But as a consequence of the gambit, I no longer trust you.

[mutantdevle]

'Tis L-1 I believe.

Bins (5) - Almost50, Mathdino, mutantdevle, Not_Mafia, Lalendra

Well I'm stupid. I though N_M's vote was a new one.

[mutantdevle]

hey im still the cop

there's this thing called a switch mechanic

Oh lol

[mutantdevle]

WAIT. So that means only the mafia would have known you were lying...

Bins says she didn't change the switch, so if the switch was off then the mafia turned it off and hence knew you wouldn't have got a result if you were the cop. When you claimed to have a result, the mafia would have assumed you were fake claiming cop (I don't think anyone predicted you were actually the cop fake claiming a result). Hence, they would be under the impression you are a vanilla townie fake claiming and by expressing doubt in your cop claim early on they thought they would gain town cred upon your death.

So... perhaps Fitz only doubted your cop claim for this exact reason? As mafia, by expressing distrust he would have assumed he'd gain some town cred once you died.

Also, notice that Lalendra didn't really react as though anything was revealed to her with Math's claim. As scum, she would know that math had no way of knowing if bins was scum or not and as a result, the claim would not have affected her reads.

Finally, maxous was defending bins after math claimed bins was scum. That sounds to me as though maxous was in doubt of math's claim and was expecting bins to flip town as maxous would have been under the impression that math was lying. Remember, maxous was defending bins before she claimed to be the SK.

So, assuming math has told us nothing but the truth, and assuming bins really is the SK, game solved?

Maybe not, but consider my FoS strongly on Fitz, Lalendra and Maxous unless either of my above assumptions are disproven. If Bins does flip SK, I say we lynch within this pool of 3 tomorrow.

[mutantdevle]

Did I phrase all that right? I'm not sure how clear I was with that post since it's 3 in the morning for me.

[mutantdevle]

Tell you what, if Bins flips scum feel free to give me shit.
Until then, I don't care

I mean, this sounds awfully confident that you don't think maths claim was correct.

[mutantdevle]

Oh hold on, flaw in my plan, the mafia don't know if their turning off of the switch was successful right? Ugh, I'm too tired for this shit.

Can someone double check if my theory here holds any weight, please? I've confused myself on how the whole switch thing works...

[mutantdevle]

i'm just trolling don't read into it

Wait, so was it actually a gambit or what? Do you have a legit investigation or...? Are you even actually the cop? I'm so god damn confused.

[mutantdevle]

Math can you just clarify the following questions with yes or no answers:

Are you the cop?

If yes, did you investigate Bins?

If yes, was your investigation successful or was the switch turned off?

[mutantdevle]

I'm actually so damn confused I might cry...

Next y'all be telling me Bins isn't even the SK...

[mutantdevle]

Math can you just clarify the following questions

no

Lol he didn't answer your questions. Now you can go into tunnel mode.

I'm too tired to tunnel right now...

Besides, since so many people have claimed cop, I think it would unwise to force him to specify.

If I was the cop then I'd know he's lying. So maybe I don't need to tunnel.



Everyone that doesn't claim cop = scum.

[mutantdevle]

Actually, Elmo is the cop.

[mutantdevle]

Also, notice that Lalendra didn't really react as though anything was revealed to her with Math's claim. As scum, she would know that math had no way of knowing if bins was scum or not and as a result, the claim would not have affected her reads.

Except I moved my vote to Bins as a result of his claim...I wasn't even considering her before, just Fitz/Sauce.

Why are you defending yourself against I point that we have already nullified due to my poor logic in making it? Like seriously, I pointed out my own flaw in the argument I made here. This point would only be valid if mafia knew the outcome of the switches. I don't really understand why you'd need to bring it up?

[mutantdevle]

Guys, I have a confession, I'm actually the Town Tracker, I tracked Maxous to Jodaxq

You mean watcher right?

Fitz knows what I'm talking about.

[mutantdevle]

Fitz knows what I'm talking about.

Ha.

That sounds sarcastic to the point of rejection

[mutantdevle]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Bins

[mutantdevle]

Should we try to figure out whether it was the mafia or the vig that killed Lalendra or Raya or do y'all think it would be a waste of time?

I think we should put some thought into it but not too much as I wouldn't want to expose the Vig in the process.

[mutantdevle]

Oh and Happy New Year!

[mutantdevle]

Vig killed Raya, it's obvious

Probably yeah. So the SK killed Lalendra. The kill could be random but I'd assume the SK would kill based on who they felt most threatened by.

[mutantdevle]

Vig killed Raya, it's obvious

Probably yeah. So the SK killed Lalendra. The kill could be random but I'd assume the SK would kill based on who they felt most threatened by.

If this is true, then the SK is either Fitz or Sauce; out of the 2, I'm more inclined to believe it would be Sauce. I'm not so certain it was a threat elimination kill though since Lalendra was reading them specifically as scum buddies rather than individual scum. Furthermore, Lalendra wasn't exactly the most vocal townie so I don't understand too much as to why she would be seen as a threat. Regardless, FoS on both of them.

[mutantdevle]

All I'll say is I think mutant is unlikely to be a scumbuddy

Could you elaborate on your logic here? Obviously I am glad that you think this but I did defend and buddy Bins a bit so it wouldn't be unreasonable for someone to conclude we share the same alignment. I don't see how my interactions with Bins would make the opposite unlikely unless you are going by the logic that scum wouldn't so openly associate with each other like that.

[mutantdevle]

Oh yeah, and the recurring question: Is Mutant scum or VI, or both?

Let's not start that again Chip Being wrong about things doesn't make someone a VI.

[mutantdevle]

Cop switch was the most valuable scum role.

Not when the cop is dead...

Their only valuable role now is their vig switch.

[mutantdevle]

I don't like these two quotes. First, mutant appears to be sure the SK shot the Cop (means the SK in immune to Mafia shots and not Town action). Then he realizes his slip and corrects it in the second quote stating the SK shot Lalendra which directly contradicts his first "assumption".

When I read this post I was heavily confused because I was just thinking "when did I ever say the SK shot the cop? I literally do not say that anywhere". I had to re-read my post 3 times before I realised I had accidentally used the word 'mafia' rather than 'SK'. I was heavily tired at the point of making both of those posts (I posted each of them at almost 2 AM if you don't believe me). So in reality, I was making no assumption in my original post as I simply just used the wrong word. My second post was realising that ofc Raya was shot by the vig since Lalendra was heavily considered town and Raya was considered scum. This is also something that I did not fully process at the time due to tiredness.

So your further theory doesn't hold up of the mafia letting the cop live. I firmly believe the mafia most definitely shot math and I wouldn't want you to get tangled on that idea. Of course, I acknowledge that "I just used the wrong word" could be an easily fabricated excuse by scum even though, on this occasion, it is the truth. I guess you're just going to have to trust me on that.

[mutantdevle]

Lalendra, which -again- makes no sense as a SK target,

Unless they felt threatened by Lalendra, which would point to Sauce or Fitz. But I'm not going to blindly follow that since I fail to see how Lalendra could be a threat at all.

[mutantdevle]

The question is why is your vote not on Chip (or me or N_M if you don't TR one of us)? Or do you believe the whole wagon on Bins was all town??

I'm not voting Chip because I don't see a case on him (You never explained why you are scum reading Chip?). I am not voting you because you are my strongest town read. And I'm not voting N_M because he isn't my strongest scum read. In general, I just don't tend to vote until the second half of each day.

And no one on Bins wagon is AI. She was confirmed scum by the cop. Both townies and scum lords would jump on that.

[mutantdevle]

However, IF I chose to trust you here then I have to vote Chip.

This only leaves Chip (5th vote) and you (6th) to suspect for the usual busing partner.

One of Chip/mutant is MAFIA. The other could either be Town or the SK.

Maxous/fitz also have one Mafia in them. The other could be the SK or a Townie.

Between Chip and mutant I think I'm more suspicious of Chip still.

One of fitz/mutant/Max is scum + one of you/Chip/Elmo.

What happened to change your mind about the scum being (me OR chip) AND (maxous OR fitz) to (me OR maxous OR fitz) AND (chip OR sauce OR elmo)?

[mutantdevle]

I think momo is mutant maybe??

What made you think this? Personally, I think it was evident I was not momo by the way he was typing...

[mutantdevle]

Guys, the way Chip Butty and MD manipulated yesterday's lynch just makes me believe they are scum together

the way things are going

VOTE: Chip Butty

Momo and Mutant share VI qualities...

Has anyone seen them in the same room together?

Are you actually throwing shade at me over that? And what exactly is it that I am doing that is making you repeatedly refer to me as a VI?

[mutantdevle]

This only leaves Chip (5th vote) and you (6th) to suspect for the usual busing partner.

Since when was I bussing? I had actually been town reading and passively defending bins. I'm surprised I didn't get much shit when bins was exposed as scum. Voting for bins after she had been exposed is not AI by any angle.

[mutantdevle]

She was confirmed scum by the cop. Both townies and scum lords would jump on that.

Exactly! So who is the scum on the wagon? We have seen Town flips from it, but we have yet to see a scum flip, and you stating "both townies and scum lords would jump on that" implies the answer to my earlier question about the wagon being all town is NO. So, 3 people flipped, all TOWN, and 4 alive including yourself and me (your strongest TR according to you). This leaves Chip and/or N_M for candidates of being Scum with Bins.. or even scum in general. Tell me if I'm going astray from following your stated line of thought.

It doesn't work like that. The wagon was not AI; that leaves the possibility that everyone on it was town. I'm not going to use "We have seen Town flips from it, but we have yet to see a scum flip" as a method to read anyone on the wagon. It's not AI.

[mutantdevle]

Stop vighunting. Nuff said.

I already know who the VIG is... SIR! Do you also want me to tell you where I got it from???

When you say that you know who the vig is, do you mean you are the vig or that you have a pretty good idea who it is?

[mutantdevle]

Stop vighunting. Nuff said.

I already know who the VIG is... SIR! Do you also want me to tell you where I got it from???

When you say that you know who the vig is, do you mean you are the vig or that you have a pretty good idea who it is?

What's it to you? If you think I'm the Vig you should either keep quiet about it (if you're Town) or just shoot me (if you're Mafia/SK). In other words, if I say I am the Vig I'm setting myself for the NK for sure, and if I deny it I'm giving scum one less target to worry about shooting, and I'm not about to give scum the satisfaction of knowing which it is.

Then why would you make the original post in the first place?

[mutantdevle]

I think we both know the answer to the second question.

You've never actually explained. As I said earlier, being wrong does not make someone an idiot.

[mutantdevle]

Where the freak is Elmo/mutant/Fitz??

Busy busy busy. Shall comment later.

[mutantdevle]

(In about 1 or 2 hours).

[mutantdevle]

I mean, Having wasn't voting either of the Scum flips. In fact he wasn't voting this AT ALL. He also is was heavily suspected by Mathdino which makes a sense for Mafia to shoot Dino if they did. Finally, the readlist reaction he posted had Bins as a top TR with Chip hidden in the TBD (that's what scum usually do when they post a test readlist of only 3 categories, since they to won't have trouble voting any of their claimed SRs, and is usually better than the strategy Bins used. Oh, and see Fits was on Bins top TRs too, alongside ME.

But now I'm considering our options if : Lynch Mafia!Fitz, go into the night and have the SK shoot one Townie. We emerge as 3 and it is down to the 2 living Townies best judgement.

OR, we could No Lynch anyone and hope that the SK will shoot Fitz anyway, but who would Fitz shoot is the question. If he shoots a Townie it's the same result. If he shoots the SK, we win. If he doesn't shoot at all, he's screwed anyway but we come out as 4 tomorrow. Still, the SK could shoot a Townie instead and then we emerge as 2-1-1 tomorrow which agrees necessitates that we also No Lynch tomorrow, and hope that scum will cross kill.

OK, the second option is reliant with on Fitz actually having reads, which I very much doubt. It is also way too complicated this , but I thought I'd throw that out anyway.

I think I'm better off leaving this for the morning when my mind is obviously fresher. I think I may have overlooked something in my 2nd option (which we are less likely to follow anyway), so I probably will spot my scummy
mistake when I reread what idea I just typed.

I'm assuming Sauce was the SK kill since I think a lot of us thought he was scummy (I certainly did). The SK should, in theory, be aiming for the mafia right now since our vig is useless due to the SK just being able to keep the switch off every night. If we lynch the SK then the vig is able to freely perform a kill tonight. If we don't lynch the SK today then there is a still a chance the SK could hit the mafioso so that doesn't matter too much (though obviously, the preference is Vig performing the shot).

There's 5 of us left. Since we all know out own alignments that's 4 people in our personal lynch pools. For us townies, that's a 50% chance of lynching scum. For scum, that's a 25% chance of getting each other. So odds are in our favour for now.

3v1v1.
No lynch + 1 NK = [2v1v1 (same position day 4)] / [3v1 (SK

OR

Mafia lose + strong town day 4)].
[1 lynch + 1 NK] / [no lynch + 2 NK] = [1v1v1 (town lose + SK

OR

Mafia win)] / [2v1 (SK

OR

Mafia lose + day 4 mylo)] / [Town instant win].
1 lynch + 2 NK = [1v1 (Mafia win OR scum draw)] / [Town Instant win].



So here's the deal, if we lynch today and there are 2 kills at night then we face a 50% chance of winning and a 50% of losing.
If we lynch today but there is only 1 kill at night OR we no lynch and there are 2 night kills then that gives us a 40% chance that scum win, 40% chance we get mylo day 4 and a 20% chance we win.
Finally, if we don't lynch and there is 1 kill then there is a 50% chance we are in the same position tomorrow (but with 1 less person in the lynch pool) and a 50% chance we are 1 less scum closer to victory.

So with that in mind, I think we should no lynch today. It maximises our chances of making it to tommorow where we will be in a stronger position as we have less people in the lynch pool.

[mutantdevle]

I really don't think you are right.

I'd like to hear everyone's opinions on the idea of a no lynch before we start throwing votes out over it.

[mutantdevle]

@Almost, are you going to give your opinion on the no lynch idea or are we to assume the things you said before me are your opinion on it?

[mutantdevle]

Right now if i had to choose it would be:
Fitz or Mutant. Right now its really hard to tell.

Wtf... he literally just asked you if you think myself or fitz is the SK... you can’t just repeat the question as your answer...

[mutantdevle]

I will reply to Almost’s points later. Phone posting.

[mutantdevle]

If Fitz hammers whilst I am writing my next post then lynch him. Also, damn you N_M, now I have to say stuff without getting to hear Fitz's opinion (which is whose I wanted to hear the most). If I let him post before I clear things up, there's a chance that post includes a vote.

- Writing a post now.

[mutantdevle]

Don't you dare hammer me whilst I'm writing either Almost.

[mutantdevle]

Fitz I swear to god if you hammer imma be so mad. Not at you, but at any town that allowed you to be in a position to hammer on Mylo (still writing my post).

[mutantdevle]

I'm not the vig. Nor am I the SK. Nor am I the last mafia. I'm one of 2 vanilla townies left in the game. The seemingly genuine support of a no lynch was a reaction test.

Anyone who supported the no lynch I would have wanted dead. Such a suggestion is fundamentally scummy for many reasons:

your putting the game into the hands of RNG

- Of which this RNG is scum influenced. They would get to decide, not us.

Your down to a 1-1-1 game where it's who played a better game the SK or mafia leaving it in the hands of a town player. Odds of that are 60% if I'm right.

- You probably are right. I've seen this situation once before where the town decided to no lynch with 1 scum and 1 SK still alive. It resulted in a 1v1v1 and the town player basically chose who won based on how kind each of them was during the game.

No lynch + 1 NK = [2v1v1 (same position day 4)] / [3v1 (SK OR Mafia lose + strong town day 4)].

- This is the main appeal of the no lynch. It is also impossible. For there to only be 1 kill (assuming both scum perform a kill) they'd have to hit the same person. Obviously, no one can shoot themselves so this is impossible.

Additionally, aiming for only 1 night kill is statistically a bad idea since for this to occur the scum, again, have to hit the same target. This is statistically unlikely. By lynching, we actually increase the chance of only 1 night kill.

Finally, lynching is our last chance of control over the events of tomorrow. Our lynch has a 40% of hitting scum. Furthermore, if we no lynch, scum has a 75% chance of hitting town EACH. If we lynch, the scums chance will either be 50% (if we hit town) or 100% (if we hit scum) the thing about hitting scum though is that it's a good thing.



So basically, I do not agree with no lynching, it's a fucking stupid idea. This was a reaction test to see if any scum would gain the confidence to support the idea and hence expose themselves.

"gAh, 'TiS nOt A rEaCtIoN tEsT, hE iS jUsT cHaNgInG hIs mInD 'cOs We CaUgHt HiM!!!"

Spoiler: Proof

Well, clearly no one read this:

I mean, Having wasn't voting either of the Scum flips. In fact he wasn't voting this AT ALL. He also is was heavily suspected by Mathdino which makes a sense for Mafia to shoot Dino if they did. Finally, the readlist reaction he posted had Bins as a top TR with Chip hidden in the TBD (that's what scum usually do when they post a test readlist of only 3 categories, since they to won't have trouble voting any of their claimed SRs, and is usually better than the strategy Bins used. Oh, and see Fits was on Bins top TRs too, alongside ME.

But now I'm considering our options if : Lynch Mafia!Fitz, go into the night and have the SK shoot one Townie. We emerge as 3 and it is down to the 2 living Townies best judgement.

OR, we could No Lynch anyone and hope that the SK will shoot Fitz anyway, but who would Fitz shoot is the question. If he shoots a Townie it's the same result. If he shoots the SK, we win. If he doesn't shoot at all, he's screwed anyway but we come out as 4 tomorrow. Still, the SK could shoot a Townie instead and then we emerge as 2-1-1 tomorrow which agrees necessitates that we also No Lynch tomorrow, and hope that scum will cross kill.

OK, the second option is reliant with on Fitz actually having reads, which I very much doubt. It is also way too complicated this , but I thought I'd throw that out anyway.

I think I'm better off leaving this for the morning when my mind is obviously fresher. I think I may have overlooked something in my 2nd option (which we are less likely to follow anyway), so I probably will spot my scummy
mistake when I reread what idea I just typed.

Because what was originally written was this:

I mean, Having wasn't voting either of the Scum flips. In fact he wasn't voting AT ALL. He also was heavily suspected by Mathdino which makes sense for Mafia to shoot Dino if they did. Finally, the readlist he posted had Bins as a top TR with Chip hidden in the TBD (that's what scum usually do when they post a readlist of only 3 categories, since they won't have trouble voting any of their claimed SRs, and is usually better than the strategy Bins used. Oh, and Fits was on Bins top TRs too, alongside ME.

But now I'm considering our options: Lynch Mafia!Fitz, go into the night and have the SK shoot one Townie. We emerge as 3 and it is down to the 2 living Townies best judgement.

OR, we could No Lynch and hope that the SK will shoot Fitz anyway, but who would Fitz shoot is the question. If he shoots a Townie it's the same result. If he shoots the SK, we win. If he doesn't shoot at all, he's screwed anyway but we come out as 4 tomorrow. Still, the SK could shoot a Townie instead and then we emerge as 2-1-1 tomorrow which necessitates that we also No Lynch tomorrow, and hope that scum will cross kill.

OK, the second option is reliant on Fitz actually having reads, which I very much doubt. It is also way too complicated, but I thought I'd throw that out anyway.

I think I'm better off leaving this for the morning when my mind is fresher. I think I may have overlooked something in my 2nd option (which we are less likely to follow anyway), so I probably will spot my mistake when I reread what I just typed.

The version I quoted is obviously much bigger. This is because I added some words:

I mean, Having wasn't voting either of the Scum flips. In fact he wasn't voting

this

AT ALL. He also

is

was heavily suspected by Mathdino which makes

a

sense for Mafia to shoot Dino if they did. Finally, the readlist

reaction

he posted had Bins as a top TR with Chip hidden in the TBD (that's what scum usually do when they post a

test

readlist of only 3 categories, since they

to

won't have trouble voting any of their claimed SRs, and is usually better than the strategy Bins used. Oh, and

see

Fits was on Bins top TRs too, alongside ME.

But now I'm considering our options

if

: Lynch Mafia!Fitz, go into the night and have the SK shoot one Townie. We emerge as 3 and it is down to the 2 living Townies best judgement.

OR, we could No Lynch

anyone

and hope that the SK will shoot Fitz anyway, but who would Fitz shoot is the question. If he shoots a Townie it's the same result. If he shoots the SK, we win. If he doesn't shoot at all, he's screwed anyway but we come out as 4 tomorrow. Still, the SK could shoot a Townie instead and then we emerge as 2-1-1 tomorrow which

agrees

necessitates that we also No Lynch tomorrow, and hope that scum will cross kill.

OK, the second option is reliant

with

on Fitz actually having reads, which I very much doubt. It is also way too complicated

this

, but I thought I'd throw that out anyway.

I think I'm better off leaving this for the morning when my mind is

obviously

fresher. I think I may have overlooked something in my 2nd option (which we are less likely to follow anyway), so I probably will spot my

scummy

mistake when I reread what

idea

I just typed.

Don't believe me? Quote both original posts. I conveniently left 2 spaces on either side of every word I added.

And don't go all policy lynching on my ass either. WE ARE AT MYLO (at least, most likely). With a lynch, there is only 1 option of the 5 that results in town still being able to win tomorrow. Lynching SK gives us better odds of winning and lynching mafia removes the mylo position we are in. We need to get this lynch right or we face an extreme possibility of losing.

Almost is confirmed town to me now. If he was scum, he'd have hammered since there is an 80% chance this vote is mylo. If Fitz hasn't hammered by the time I finish this post, he also gains town cred from me, but I still consider it a possibility that he is the SK (since the SK has a lower chance of winning than the mafia). A lack of a hammer screams to me that either 1 or both of the scum are on my wagon already.

So can y'all unvote now and remove intent so we can think this Mylo through properly? Unless, of course, you are scum. In which case your best option is to remain on my wagon and hope that one of the other townies doesn't believe my reaction test claim.

[mutantdevle]

So for me personally:

Almost = Town
Fitz = Null
Elmo & N_M = FoS

[mutantdevle]

1- He defended Bins early on in #66
2- He planted the seeds for Bins' fake claim fake claim in #108
3- Bins even acknowledged receipt of the idea in #113
4- He went on to defend the idea of letting the claimed SK live in #127 even after I had linked him with the game we almost lost for doing just that.
5- He admits Elmo is the one to refer to if we intended to meta read him in #46. and Elmo already voted him right after his "let the SK live" proposition (see #109)
6- Finally, his readlist is on #141 fits the profile of group scum with Bins in the Town leans and Chip in the Nulls.

Also, skimming over mutant's ISO once more I see he was SRing Sauce for being precisely the SK, so he might've shot Sauce last night,

1 - 66 was not the only time I defended bins. I thought she was town, obviously I was wrong. I was passively defending her up until the point of the cop claim.
2 & 3 - At this time I thought that the mafia switch that corresponded to their PR got to use the ability if the switch was off. Eg. if the vig switch was off then the town vig can't shoot but the mafia vig could perform a second kill. This misunderstanding was explained to me by math in post 149 causing me to realise the SK is nowhere near as powerful as I originally thought. I don't accept that I was 'planting seeds' at either point though. Having someone claim SK is a good thing as we expose scum. By the time bins claimed, I had made it clear I no longer supported keeping a claimed SK alive. Bins was obviously desperate at that point and used my theory made in my misunderstanding as a last ditch attempt to stay alive.
4 - I did not consider your linked game as a valid example as you explained that roles were not revealed until a player's killer died, that added a lot more importance to lynching killers. Again, my opinion on this was not changed until 149.
5 - I would have thought that since I have had the most experience with Elmo out of everyone on this site so far then she would be able to give the most accurate meta read on me. Clearly my assumption was wrong since she instantly votes for me every time do something so much as slightly questionable (when she should know that that's the exact kind of thing she should know I'd do). It's almost as if she is trying to start up the easiest wagons?
6 - I don't really understand how. All I can say is that these were my genuine reads at the time.

7 - I don't remember specifically saying sauce was the SK but I definitely did scum read him. Again, I was wrong. I'm obviously going to deny killing him.

[mutantdevle]

@Everyone: Can we lynch Fitz first and see what the night brings us?

VOTE: Fitz

This is still where I'm most confident of flipping Scum. I still have mutant >> X, but I have some mild doubts now.

If Fitz is Mafia... fine. If he is the SK though, I think the Vig should holster maybe???

I really don't think we should lynch Fitz first. If either Fitz or you were scum then either of you would have hammered me to meet your own win objectives. Scum would be stupid not to hammer me at MYLO as, if ANY townie gets lynched, then the results of the night kills settle whether the SK or Mafia wins from there. This means that both scum MUST be on my wagon already otherwise there would have been a hammer. Notice how neither of them has unvoted? It's because they know if they keep their votes there then that means is a chance either you or Fitz will hammer me. They know this is MYLO, they know that more thought should be going into this final vote. Yet neither of them seem to be taking any cautions.

We need to lynch either Elmo or N_M. My gut says Elmo.

[mutantdevle]

How could you possibly know who the vig is?

[mutantdevle]

How could you possibly know who the vig is?

Does it really matter to you?!!

Well if you are expecting me to blindly follow your wagon on Fitz then yes. If you are going to make a well-reasoned argument against Fitz that convinces me to vote for him, then obviously I don't need to know. But if you are telling me to vote Fitz based on the fact that there is a vig in Elmo / N_M then I'm not going to follow that unless I also know who the vig is; or at the very least I want concrete evidence you know who the vig is.

For now though, based on my logic that scum should have hammered, I am looking to vote within Elmo / N_M. If either of them is the vig then they can just role claim if they have to.

[mutantdevle]

How could you possibly know who the vig is?

Assuming you mean "Night Kill Analysis", I don't exactly see how. We only know for certain that the vig has one kill, but it could be more. How do we know the vig didn't choose the same target as scum on a certain day or perhaps the scum chose the same target to kill? Even on the day with 3 kills it's going to be damn hard to distinguish between who killed who. For all we know, the kills that Almost would have attributed to a single person to believe they are the vig could actually belong to the serial killer. I really don't see a situation where Almost could accurately get an idea of who the vig is from night kill analysis, or from anything at all for that matter. Unless, of course, there is an obvious crumb that I am missing.

And you make it seem like mutant is a mislynch. Hmmm....... Let's think about this for a second...

Fitz never specifically says that I'm a mislynch?

Also, this comment would suggest you don't think I'm a mislynch (would certainly explain the lack of an unvote). So that must mean you scum read me, why? I'm under the impression your only reason for voting for me was the no lynch suggestion; now that I've stated it was a reaction test, why are you still voting? Finally, if you really do think I am scum, why aren't you tunnelling me? This is MYLO. Now is the time to push your reads more than ever.

[mutantdevle]

Why would scum quickhammer?

By doing so, they have practically won. This is the case for both scum. Whichever one it is that wins the game is decided by the night kills. The only real chance we have of being in a position where we can still win tomorrow is if one of the scum is killed today. That's the only reason scum wouldn't hammer is if they thought the person being hammered was scum themselves. Because that means they'd have to think about tomorrow.

Now you may say that because the night kills solve which of the 2 scum win that means neither scum would want to hammer as they'd look too obvious. But before I revealed my stance on a no lynch was a reaction test it would have been perfectly reasonable for anyone to hammer me and hence go under the radar as scum.

[mutantdevle]

This is MYLO.

Its not I think your the SK and I believe you have NK immunity. I know your style it comes across town.

Hold on, let me do some maths. I'm fairly certain this is MYLO though (in most situations).

[mutantdevle]

Assuming we lynch town:

If the scum kill each other, we win.
If the scum shoot 2 different townies, the scum draw.
If the scum shoots the same townie then it will be 1v1v1 and the townie decides who wins tomorrow.
If the Mafia shoots a mafia-immune SK whilst the SK shoots a townie then it will also be 1v1v1 for the townie decides who wins tomorrow.
If the SK shoots the mafia and the mafia shoots a townie then that results in 2v1 for the next day.
If the mafia shoots the SK and they are not immune as well as the SK shoots a townie then that also results in a 2v1 for the next day.

So in 4/6 cases the game is over if we lynch town. 66% MYLO is too damn high for us to just take this lynch casually.

[mutantdevle]

@mutant....what was the outcome of your reaction test? Who passed and who failed. And if there was a fail...why no vote?

Almost: Reaction to it seems scummy, lack of vote seems town.
N_M: Null.
Elmo: Reaction seems scummy.
Fitz: Sadly I had to reveal it was a reaction test before you voted but your lack of vote seems town.


It makes me uncomfortable that I struggle to read joke posters like N_M.

[mutantdevle]

I'm not so sure I want anyone at L-1 tbh. I get too paranoid of scum hammers during the late game. Tbh, I get paranoid in general during late game.

[mutantdevle]

Translation: Mutant is Mafia immune Sk

What do I say that implies that?

[mutantdevle]

Assuming you mean "Night Kill Analysis", I don't exactly see how. We only know for certain that the vig has one kill, but it could be more. How do we know the vig didn't choose the same target as scum on a certain day or perhaps the scum chose the same target to kill?

On N1 we had 3 flips, so OBVIOUSLY the Vig shot did go through. If we only had 2 I would have assumed the Vig shot didn't go through either.

On N2, not only did we have only 2 flips, but more importantly we KNOW that the Vig switch is 100% controlled by ONLY ONE PERSON. Why would the SK let the Vig shoot? Even if they're immune to the Vig shot that would blow their cover as there is no Doc. Or are you telling me you did let the Vig shoot??

If I'm honest, I haven't really been paying the most attention this game. The 2 things that entice me to pay attention to a game are my role and the setup of the game. Neither of which I find particularly interesting. I remember there being 3 kills and I remember that bins was the vig switch but since I haven't been thinking about this game all too much I failed to put 2 and 2 together when I wrote that post. For some reason, I thought the 3 deaths night was night 2 even though ofc if I put more than 10 seconds though into then it obviously wasn't. My lack of attention is also why I missed your case on Fitz which I have only just properly noticed (thoughts on that next post).

[mutantdevle]

Also, skimming over mutant's ISO once more I see he was SRing Sauce for being precisely the SK, so he might've shot Sauce last night, while Fitz shot Maxous? If that's the case then Fitz' readlist at the bottom of #204 atill makes sense. He TR'd Bins and mutant, thus didn't vite Bins and haven't shot mutant. The problem is he didn't bother voting Bins after she claimed SK but I guess it could be bc he thought that may draw the Mafia attention to him being the SK.

He had Maxous in his scum pile, and Max was the only one alive last night from that pile for him to shoot.

Further down his ISO his #240 was a strong FoS of Lalendra, so it makes sense he shot her after Math claimed Cop and Raya was very much cleared of being Bins' p.

Moving on with the assumption Fitz is the SK, in #412 (bottom 3rd) he's fiddling with the idea of letting Bins live. I could explain this in many ways, like maybe he wanted a guaranteed target? Or maybe he wasn't going to shoot her and thus would be guaranteed she gets lynched the next day? Or maybe he just didn't want her to flip this early so we would keep thinking she might be the SK?

Fitz does vote Bins though in #446 with the quote "Hopefully she's mafia". Shortly after he unvotes her in #458

Alright check #651 for yourselves. This is the guy who shot Maxous for sure. That post though suggests he's the 3rd Mafia, but what do I know?

I have 2 problems with your case. First of all, it feels more like that you WANT him to be scum since you flip-flop on him being mafia / SK; that's not too bad though. My main problem is that you assume the SK will always go after their scum reads. I'm not sure if the meta behind that is different on this site, but from my experience, the SK tends to target who threatens them rather than who they scum read. And there is a huge difference. I've also noticed that SK's a more likely to lie about their reads. They tend to keep their real scum reads in their null pile so they can kill without suspicion and scum read the players that are more likely to be lynched.

You criticise Fitz for fiddling with the idea of letting bins live but you forget that N_M also did that (just in a more mafia rather than SK kind of way).

In general, this is a decent case. But there's nothing compelling IMO. I'd be willing to lynch Fitz if time was running low but I'd much rather be lynching within Elmo / N_M (and ideally with your's and Fitz's support as I really don't trust the other 2).

[mutantdevle]

Intent to hammer mutant

746 is trying TOO HAD to force "town slips". First; Bins wasn't the Vig switch. Chip was. Second, filing to put 2+2 together while acknowledging you saw the Vig switch is just flain dumb. Third; you claim "lack of attention" while you also set a "reaction test"?? And missed my case on Fitz which was literally the 3rd post of the day (by all players collectively)??

Finally, you say both your role and the setup are uninteresting, and that you haven't been paying attention, while you happen to be the player with highest post count???? (I only realized that while I was checking if my case on fitz was the 3rd or 4th post of the day).

So this whole intent thing is you saying you don't believe my 'lack of attention' claim?

Well to that I simply say, check my meta. You'll find that I am A LOT more active and usually a lot more sure of my reads. I haven't even tunnelled anyone this game which is surprising for me. Honestly, this is what is considered not very attentive by my standards.

[mutantdevle]

@fitz/mutant: Why are you two so afamant in fishing for the Vig? I mean, that's one more point in the other 2 players' favour.

And why are you two automatically ruling out the possibility that >I< am the Vig (thus -obviously- know who "the Vig" is)???? Amuse me.

I'm not fishing for a Vig claim but nor am I against one. If the vig isn't going to be able to perform a kill tonight then I see no reason why they shouldn't role claim now to narrow down the people in the lynch pool.

I also assume that you are not the vig since it would be stupid for you to not claim at this point. Honestly, my theory is that you have no idea who the vig is and are just trying to draw the NK to yourself by either making yourself seem like the vig or making it out as though you have valuable information that is best silenced. I don't think it's fooling anyone and, as scum, I certainly wouldn't NK you. But then again you could really be the vig making it so obvious that the scum doesn't kill you. Overall, the whole thing is WIFOM and not my concern.

I really don't like your attitude of wanting me to blindly follow you in lynching Fitz. I don't think N_M is the vig since, judging by his past reads, I would have been shot by now. Elmo can't be the vig either since she never mentions anything about it at all. For all I know, Fitz is the vig.

You're also refusing to tell us anything about your information on the vig because... you don't want to expose them? Well did it ever cross your mind that by saying either Elmo or N_M is the vig you reveal to the other who the vig is? At least one of them is definitely scum if not both. You're just throwing yourself into the mix as a feeble to rectify that.

I'm hoping whatever you reveal at the end of the game about how you know the vig is some good shit because currently, if you are not scum or the vig, I'm probably going to be annoyed that you are pulling the wool over the town's eyes. I really don't see why you ever had to mention knowing the vig's identity in the first place as it doesn't concern the town.

[mutantdevle]

First; Bins wasn't the Vig switch. Chip was.

Well fuck me then.

[mutantdevle]

Intent to hammer mutant

May I ask how long I have until you place the vote? I had been planning to make cases on both N_M and Elmo these last few days but I have been yet to get round to it. I want to know if you'd allow me to go to bed rn without fearing waking up to finding the town has lost.

[mutantdevle]

Had any townie other than N_M (or possible sauce?) made it to day 4 with me I think we would have won the game. If they weren't already town reading me, I'm pretty sure I could convince them that Almost was scum.


Reflecting on this post day 3 is what confirmed to me that Almost was the cop/vig immune SK:

Ok, guys. Fine. I get it. I'm going to be shot by the Mafia sooner than later and the doctor is already dead so I will accept my fate. Thank you.

Geez! It was never my intention to be the very top TR on each and every readlist.

After this, Almost became scummier. I had been assuming that he was doing this purposely to avoid being night killed. But on day 3 it just didn't feel right that Almost was acting scummy since we really needed everyone to be as town as possible to sort out the potentially MYLO situation.

It was evident that Almost desperately wanted to avoid being night killed. This only made sense if he was the SK who could be killed by the mafia. Sure, no one wants to be night killed. But I'm sure any townie would happily play with a high town read status and be night killed if it meant dying instead of a PR. I also felt that whole "I know who the vig is" claim was a setup to fake claim vig if needed in the hope people believed him over the counterclaim since he had been crumbing so much. Additionally, his pocketing of N_M clearly worked...

I'm sad town lost but I'm glad I was right about Almost down to the detail of what immunity he chose. GG though, this game was fun.