Normal 1973 - The Fall of House Viliyr - game over

[mastina]

yeah I guess I overestimated the strength of vig and neighborizer when there’s one more vt

You know that neighbors and neighborizers are considered net-null for town, right? Or in the case of a scum neighbor, +EV for scum, right?

Neighborizer adds nigh-zero value to town PRs. (It's a disproportionately strong scum role, but not a strong town role.)

So yes.

The game was balanced around essentially two PRs: the JOAT, and the N1 vig.

[mastina]

though now I’m curious what scum had as their pr

Effectively? Nothing.

Una was a scum ninja-neighbor, but the ninja would be a rolecop guilty and had nothing to counter, so was negative utility in that sense, while the neighbor was +EV scumteam so in that sense was massively positive utility.

Transcend was a one-shot jailkeeper, basically exactly what he claimed. This gave scum SOME level of defense, while preventing them from having an overwhelming advantage--a single protection against a vig shot, or a single prevention against a town action, while letting the other town actions transpire.

It was close to being a two-goon scumteam. They didn't NEED more against the town's PRs. In fact what they had was in of itself pushing the borders a bit, to be honest. (Just, was allowed because rolecop getting a guilty + cop + vig = pretty strong town abilities to have in essentially-a-micro.)

[mastina]

Can you really count that against her tho when she was here for only an hour?

When she voted without reading?

Kinda, yes.
(But not much, see below.)

This wasn't a long hundred-page game so it was probably something she could read in about two hours, give or take, and that's accounting for her also having live interactions with players as she went. Without live player interactions, easily a one-hour catch-up.

That being said

, wouldn't have made

much

of a difference for her to holster HER vote if sheepsaysmeep cast a proper vote anyway.

[mastina]

smith can you corroborate my rolespec thing that you wouldn't pass n1 vig n2 Jailkeeper random neighbors vs goons

I can corroborate that setup would never pass review on my end, too.

[mastina]

why dont they release reviews anymore

They do, but it's usually up to the mods to tell Nexus the review PT can be released. When they don't, Nexus may or may not release them and if he does, it's probably at the same time he moves the game to the archive (AKA, past the point where anyone cares about the game anymore).

[mastina]

we had to try and get the town prs lynched and we did.

I mean, that's the way a proper game should be anyway in that you don't treat PR claims as in of themselves alignment-indicative. Setup spec does have a role to play in games, but it should always be secondary to scumhunting, not the other way around.

I'd rather mislynch a town PR than let a scum get away by claiming a PR that wasn't actually indicative of being town, so.

[mastina]

(Another way of thinking about it: SOME roleclaims are alignment indicative. Setup spec, when properly utilized, can tell you that much. In this case, that the town needed Jay's role to be even remotely in the right range balance-wise for power role strength. But MOST roleclaims aren't indicative in of themselves of alignment. Play > role, and role != alignment, so you judge their claimed role with their play and search for signs of what they said lining up with what they claimed, and if it matches, whether that indicates town, indicates scum, or doesn't have a clear indication. Which is typically why towns are not meant to gambit, since gambiting is the realm of scum who hope to gain something.)

[mastina]

but then town had a universal back up
but then town lost anyways

I reviewed that game!

Good times.

If memory serves me, town also lynched a PR there?

[mastina]

If memory serves me, town also lynched a PR there?

Oh right.
I was wrong.
Town didn't lynch a PR.

They lynched EVERY PR.

[mastina]

(Okay technically speaking there was one town neighbor who did not get lynched, but again, every real town PR which had any actual role was lynched, except for you who got strongmanned N1 in spite of you using your BP. Fun times.)

[mastina]

Also, out of interest: how do guys like mastina and mhsmith always find ending games?
Do you monitor so many on-going games, or is there a secret thread where you see what games ended or..?

I watch every game I review, and even some I don't. Chances are if it's a Normal game, I have at least some semblance of passing familiarity with it.

Butyeah I reviewed this game, so. Watched it.

[mastina]

Also also: would love to play a game with mhsmith and mastina.

If it ever happens, quote this post where I say this:
Never trust me, trust mhsmith instead.