Open 705: Polygamist - Game Over


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Post Post #500 (ISO) » Tue Jan 09, 2018 3:47 pm

Post by Mathdino »

In post 494, MathBlade wrote:Another application of the law of averages is a belief that a sample's behaviour must line up with the expected value based on population statistics. For example, suppose a fair coin is flipped 100 times. Using the law of averages, one might predict that there will be 50 heads and 50 tails. While this is the single most likely outcome, there is only an 8% chance of it occurring. Predictions based on the law of averages are even less useful if the sample does not reflect the population.

So expecting this scenario to match a win because randomness says the most likely thing is a win is bad.
I understand what you're saying. And I no longer am advocating actual randomness. I'm advocating arbitrariness.

There's a good sociological/psychological backup argument I have as well. Most setups have the actual town winrate significantly encompass the theoretical random-lynch town winrate. The fact that this setup is an exception is highly suspect.

1. We only have 2 lynches and most (almost every one in this setup) early lynches are on town due to mafia manipulation.

2. Mafia has easy ways to nullify apparent interactions between each other. Scumhunting is ridiculously hard in this setup if mafia have an ounce of competence.

3. Once everyone is pretty much null, mafia can easily push through a mislynch based on bad logic.

4. The high volume of mafia in this setup combined with the small amount of time we have to actually nail them (notice that we need the entire town in order to get mafia) very easily screws over reads and discussion.
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Post Post #501 (ISO) » Tue Jan 09, 2018 3:47 pm

Post by sheepsaysmeep »

shit i lost a pagetop
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Post Post #502 (ISO) » Tue Jan 09, 2018 3:48 pm

Post by MathBlade »

Nah.

Lylo is pretty easy just see who people won’t vote for and do.

Just gotta get people talking and analyze the lover pattern.

Can someone post the true listing?
ScumBlade's eloquent performance left me utterly disoriented, debased, depraved and sent me spiraling into a horrific murky abyss with emotional turmoil and immense despair as my only companions until slowly I suffocate in my own gloom, surrounded by failure. I will never recover. -- Zachstralkita about Mini 1841
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Post Post #503 (ISO) » Tue Jan 09, 2018 3:49 pm

Post by sheepsaysmeep »

it was just dino's list but with you and i flipped i think
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Post Post #504 (ISO) » Tue Jan 09, 2018 3:50 pm

Post by Mathdino »

In post 498, Lalendra wrote:
In post 473, Mathdino wrote:My strategy relies on the fact that scumhunting is impossible with this setup, but limited townhunting is possible.
People say this all the time and i will never understand it. Aren't they just two sides of the same coin?
I forced a townslip out of my partner (and the other partner too). Take it or leave it. Mathblade is good as scum but I'd argue that from a spectator's POV, my slot is highly likely to be town.

What do you think of the Sky/Diamond slip? If you wanna lynch them instead I'll try to save you/cy.



Edit: The true listing is exactly what I posted except it's sheep/Tora and you/me.
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Post Post #505 (ISO) » Tue Jan 09, 2018 3:51 pm

Post by Sky_Paladin »

Toranaga and sheepsaymeep
pisskop
Mathdino and
Amrochora/MisaTange
MathBlade
Redflavor and
manrock
Hyung
Cy and lalendra
Diamond and Sky
Kop and
bigfinn
momo
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Post Post #506 (ISO) » Tue Jan 09, 2018 3:52 pm

Post by MathBlade »

Dino stop arguing you’re town because 99% of the time no one gives a shit to read it.

Just help me out by posting the real list and and the link to the “slip”.
ScumBlade's eloquent performance left me utterly disoriented, debased, depraved and sent me spiraling into a horrific murky abyss with emotional turmoil and immense despair as my only companions until slowly I suffocate in my own gloom, surrounded by failure. I will never recover. -- Zachstralkita about Mini 1841
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Post Post #507 (ISO) » Tue Jan 09, 2018 3:53 pm

Post by MathBlade »

In post 505, Sky_Paladin wrote:Toranaga and sheepsaymeep
pisskop
Mathdino and
Amrochora/MisaTange
MathBlade
Redflavor and
manrock
Hyung
Cy and lalendra
Diamond and Sky
Kop and
bigfinn
momo
Thank you.
ScumBlade's eloquent performance left me utterly disoriented, debased, depraved and sent me spiraling into a horrific murky abyss with emotional turmoil and immense despair as my only companions until slowly I suffocate in my own gloom, surrounded by failure. I will never recover. -- Zachstralkita about Mini 1841
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Post Post #508 (ISO) » Tue Jan 09, 2018 3:53 pm

Post by Sky_Paladin »

Dino
What do you think of the Sky/Diamond slip? If you wanna lynch them instead I'll try to save you/cy.
I'm unaware of any slip. Care to clarify? It looks like you're doing this fake reaction test thing again.
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Post Post #509 (ISO) » Tue Jan 09, 2018 3:53 pm

Post by sheepsaysmeep »

slip in
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Post Post #510 (ISO) » Tue Jan 09, 2018 3:54 pm

Post by Mathdino »

Read the first page. Diamond and Sky are lovers. That should be all you need.
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Post Post #511 (ISO) » Tue Jan 09, 2018 3:56 pm

Post by Lalendra »

In post 491, Mathdino wrote:K so you're one of those players. Damn.

Well, we honestly probably just caught scum early with cy/Lalendra, because the fact that the lynch hasn't been pushed through already is insanely suspicious.
I'm not going to pretend to understand your math fully, but if there are 4 people on the wagon, how do i know that all four of you aren't scum, and the ones not jumping on the wagon aren't town? You could be scum taking a power town approach and espousing the random approach to look neutral. That would make sheep your scum buddy and makes it make sense that you are passively throwing shade at anyone not voting us and low key pressuring people to sheep your vote for town cred. Honestly that all makes so much sense that i would feel like i had the whole game figured out if it wasn't for how much i still don't like momo's slip or his response to it.
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Post Post #512 (ISO) » Tue Jan 09, 2018 3:56 pm

Post by MathBlade »

In post 450, LlamaFluff wrote:
Vote Count

cytheflyguy (4) - Mathblade, Mathdino, RedFlavor, Toranaga
Mathdino (2) - Sky_Paladin, DiamondSentinel
momo (2) - sheepsaysmeep, Lalendra
sheepsaysmeep (1) - cytheflyguy
RedFlavor (1) - momo

Not Voting (2) - Kop, hyung

With 12 alive it takes 7 to lynch.

Deadline for day one is January 25th 7PM PST in (expired on 2018-01-25 19:00:00)
K now for a moment assume cytheflyguy is town then the majority of the people on the wagon are town.

Then I know I and Dino are town. So red flavor and Toranaga need to be analyzed
ScumBlade's eloquent performance left me utterly disoriented, debased, depraved and sent me spiraling into a horrific murky abyss with emotional turmoil and immense despair as my only companions until slowly I suffocate in my own gloom, surrounded by failure. I will never recover. -- Zachstralkita about Mini 1841
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Post Post #513 (ISO) » Tue Jan 09, 2018 3:57 pm

Post by MathBlade »

In post 512, MathBlade wrote:
In post 450, LlamaFluff wrote:
Vote Count

cytheflyguy (4) - Mathblade, Mathdino, RedFlavor, Toranaga
Mathdino (2) - Sky_Paladin, DiamondSentinel
momo (2) - sheepsaysmeep, Lalendra
sheepsaysmeep (1) - cytheflyguy
RedFlavor (1) - momo

Not Voting (2) - Kop, hyung

With 12 alive it takes 7 to lynch.

Deadline for day one is January 25th 7PM PST in (expired on 2018-01-25 19:00:00)
K now for a moment assume cytheflyguy is scum then the majority of the people on the wagon are town.

Then I know I and Dino are town. So red flavor and Toranaga need to be analyzed
Derp brain merge meld.
ScumBlade's eloquent performance left me utterly disoriented, debased, depraved and sent me spiraling into a horrific murky abyss with emotional turmoil and immense despair as my only companions until slowly I suffocate in my own gloom, surrounded by failure. I will never recover. -- Zachstralkita about Mini 1841
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Post Post #514 (ISO) » Tue Jan 09, 2018 3:58 pm

Post by Mathdino »

I mean then it's Sky and Diamond gaining towncred for being off the wagon. I doubt it's sheep/Tora and Red/hyung.
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Post Post #515 (ISO) » Tue Jan 09, 2018 3:59 pm

Post by sheepsaysmeep »

tbqh i dont see how anyone sees a world where math/mb and me/tor is a scumteam
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Post Post #516 (ISO) » Tue Jan 09, 2018 3:59 pm

Post by Mathdino »

In post 511, Lalendra wrote:I'm not going to pretend to understand your math fully, but if there are 4 people on the wagon, how do i know that all four of you aren't scum, and the ones not jumping on the wagon aren't town? You could be scum taking a power town approach and espousing the random approach to look neutral. That would make sheep your scum buddy and makes it make sense that you are passively throwing shade at anyone not voting us and low key pressuring people to sheep your vote for town cred. Honestly that all makes so much sense that i would feel like i had the whole game figured out if it wasn't for how much i still don't like momo's slip or his response to it.
Do you disagree on the Diamond/Sky argument? Read page 1 again.
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Post Post #517 (ISO) » Tue Jan 09, 2018 3:59 pm

Post by MathBlade »

Huynh and sheep would also be town so that entire list would mean scum would be in the bottom half of the list of this is the case.
ScumBlade's eloquent performance left me utterly disoriented, debased, depraved and sent me spiraling into a horrific murky abyss with emotional turmoil and immense despair as my only companions until slowly I suffocate in my own gloom, surrounded by failure. I will never recover. -- Zachstralkita about Mini 1841
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Post Post #518 (ISO) » Tue Jan 09, 2018 4:02 pm

Post by Mathdino »

Also, Math/Math/sheep/Tora is a ridiculous theory. Do an ISO of me/sheep/Tora. I get it makes sense from like an armchair mafia standpoint (and from the POV of your paranoia), but it's not realistic. I had to strongarm sheep into going along with my idea too.
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Post Post #519 (ISO) » Tue Jan 09, 2018 4:03 pm

Post by Sky_Paladin »

It looks to me that Diamond was testing the waters to see if people wanted to claim, which is consistent with my more detailed explanation that you asked for in 391 and also with what Diamond opened with.
7 - I ask if we should crumb or not and say I have no idea wtf to do.
8 - Diamond says it's nightless, and speculates everybody will revealing there partners on day 1. Asked me not to reveal unless the trend seems to be going that way. Says that they'll just wing it and hope we win day 1.
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I had to strongarm sheep into going along with my idea too.
That is literally the opposite of what happened. Hello? Aren't you supposed to be buddies with MathBlade? Why lie?
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Post Post #520 (ISO) » Tue Jan 09, 2018 4:04 pm

Post by MathBlade »

So Lalendra is voting momo so the only bottom half configuration

So the most likely configuration if cy is scum is cy/Lalendra and sky diamond.

Now let’s assume cy is town.
ScumBlade's eloquent performance left me utterly disoriented, debased, depraved and sent me spiraling into a horrific murky abyss with emotional turmoil and immense despair as my only companions until slowly I suffocate in my own gloom, surrounded by failure. I will never recover. -- Zachstralkita about Mini 1841
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Post Post #521 (ISO) » Tue Jan 09, 2018 4:05 pm

Post by MathBlade »

In post 514, Mathdino wrote:I mean then it's Sky and Diamond gaining towncred for being off the wagon. I doubt it's sheep/Tora and Red/hyung.
They get scumread if cy is scum.

Still working on town case.
ScumBlade's eloquent performance left me utterly disoriented, debased, depraved and sent me spiraling into a horrific murky abyss with emotional turmoil and immense despair as my only companions until slowly I suffocate in my own gloom, surrounded by failure. I will never recover. -- Zachstralkita about Mini 1841
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Post Post #522 (ISO) » Tue Jan 09, 2018 4:05 pm

Post by Mathdino »

Sky, ctrl+f sheep's iso for "sold". Go to that post to see where I convinced sheep from scumreading me into agreeing with my strategy.
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Post Post #523 (ISO) » Tue Jan 09, 2018 4:07 pm

Post by MathBlade »

In post 450, LlamaFluff wrote:
Vote Count

cytheflyguy (4) - Mathblade, Mathdino, RedFlavor, Toranaga
Mathdino (2) - Sky_Paladin, DiamondSentinel
momo (2) - sheepsaysmeep, Lalendra
sheepsaysmeep (1) - cytheflyguy
RedFlavor (1) - momo

Not Voting (2) - Kop, hyung

With 12 alive it takes 7 to lynch.

Deadline for day one is January 25th 7PM PST in (expired on 2018-01-25 19:00:00)
For easy reference for me since phone posting.
ScumBlade's eloquent performance left me utterly disoriented, debased, depraved and sent me spiraling into a horrific murky abyss with emotional turmoil and immense despair as my only companions until slowly I suffocate in my own gloom, surrounded by failure. I will never recover. -- Zachstralkita about Mini 1841
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Post Post #524 (ISO) » Tue Jan 09, 2018 4:08 pm

Post by Lalendra »

re: 504 & 516, I will have to go back and re-read for the Sky/Diamond argument and give you my opinion tomorrow, it's bedtime.
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