Open 705: Polygamist - Game Over

[MathBlade]

This would mean one of the red flavor/X or Toranaga/Y pairs would be scum.

While all town wagons do form on town scum likely could have hammered due to what seems to be weak scumhunting/townhunting if seriously talking random.

[Mathdino]

Tbqh VCA is mostly useless because scum will, ideally, (and, in previous setups, have) run each other up to L-2 and L-2 "proving" they aren't scum together and then let the town get paranoid and lynch town instead.

This massive deadline is hurting us. We need a flip.

[MathBlade]

The fact that hammer hasn’t occurred would mean that there is likely a scum there in those pairs.

Ergo I am only interested in lynching cy or cy’s partner, Sky/Diamond, RedFlavor pair or Toranaga pair.

[MathBlade]

Tbqh VCA is mostly useless because scum will, ideally, (and, in previous setups, have) run each other up to L-2 and L-2 "proving" they aren't scum together and then let the town get paranoid and lynch town instead.

This massive deadline is hurting us. We need a flip.

Will you stop this?

Seriously.

You have your strengths I have mine.

I break games in lylo just let me work.

And hammer faking does expose itself in combination with the reads.

[Mathdino]

Math, I hope you realise that whatever grand theory you have for all 4 scum put together is most likely exactly what scum wants you to think is correct. There are strategies for scum with this setup that completely counteract normally good scumhunting/analysis.

Plus, I agree that LyLo is easy (I've never lost LyLo as town [or ever]). The hard part is you have 6 townies and 4 scum and you need all 6 townies to agree on who scum is while the 4 scum are throwing chaos into the mix. It's not the scumhunting that's the problem. That part is easy when you know you're town.

The problem is the politics.

Edit: IDK dude I've read too many games with this setup with good scumhunters that lose

[MathBlade]

Hello everyone. So, shall we start with claiming lovers?

2. How could claiming lovers not help? Au contraire, since it's a nigthless setup, I think it's our biggest weapon here. If we claim lovers, we force the scum into pairs to begin with. Furthermore, if we have anyone super strong (I don't necessarily know if we do), if scum pressures their partner, it makes it pretty obvious. So, scum has to be careful about pressuring 2 slots in the case of one player being spot-on or whatever.

Also, by claiming lovers, it lowers the pool for scum to bus from, and lower the amount of chaos we'd have.

I discussed claiming with my lover and we didn’t know if that was a good idea or not so I guess we will go with the flow.

arent these two lovers

This looks really bad actually.

Still reading give me 30 minutes but cy/Lalendra and Diamond sky looking hella likely.

[Sky_Paladin]

Cy's partner is Lalendra
Toranaga's partner is Sheep
Redflavor's partner is Hyrule

Of those three pairs, my preferred lynch is Sheep/Toranaga, however I have no special attachment to the other two slots because they basically don't exist, and Lalendra's ATE in the previous 36 hours was unappealing to me.

[MathBlade]

Math, I hope you realise that whatever grand theory you have for all 4 scum put together is most likely exactly what scum wants you to think is correct. There are strategies for scum with this setup that completely counteract normally good scumhunting/analysis.

Plus, I agree that LyLo is easy (I've never lost LyLo as town [or ever]). The hard part is you have 6 townies and 4 scum and you need all 6 townies to agree on who scum is while the 4 scum are throwing chaos into the mix. It's not the scumhunting that's the problem. That part is easy when you know you're town.

The problem is the politics.

Edit: IDK dude I've read too many games with this setup with good scumhunters that lose

Seriously. Omg will you stop arguing that playing mafia is bad?

I have taken many a shit spots and almost won it except Transcend game threw by voting too early saying he didn’t care.

Just give me a moment to fucking read and stop spreading despair that’s how towns lose.

[MathBlade]

So please just give me time to read.

[MathBlade]

It looks to me that Diamond was testing the waters to see if people wanted to claim, which is consistent with my more detailed explanation that you asked for in 391 and also with what Diamond opened with.

7 - I ask if we should crumb or not and say I have no idea wtf to do.
8 - Diamond says it's nightless, and speculates everybody will revealing there partners on day 1. Asked me not to reveal unless the trend seems to be going that way. Says that they'll just wing it and hope we win day 1.

Dino

I had to strongarm sheep into going along with my idea too.

That is literally the opposite of what happened. Hello? Aren't you supposed to be buddies with MathBlade? Why lie?

Okay Sky question:

Diamond said he asked you not to. Assume this is true.

Then why did Diamond ask if we should claim lovers? That seems counter intuitive and what emotion did you feel when Diamond did that?

[Sky_Paladin]

@MathBlade

when you are caught up, I would also caution you to examine the Tora/Sheep slot and it's buddying to your own. Dino's blanket acceptance and auto pass of the slot are one of the key reasons I am scumreading your slot.
Especially note Sheep has jumped off the Cy-wagon with the barest provocation.
The other reason is mainly Dino's attitude and playstyle seems hellbent on his way or the highway and that looks a lot like open wolfing to me. I do appreciate your efforts to actually play the game though.

That seems counter intuitive and what emotion did you feel when Diamond did that?

It fit exactly in line with Diamond wanting to know how town felt about claiming before deciding whether or not we should claim. I will admit being surprised that Diamond was the first person to bring it up.

[Sky_Paladin]

Note I claimed in 80.

[MathBlade]

I guess what we are looking for is the set of interactions between declared groups that seem suspicious. If you think of every player group as a hydra, we're looking for the two hydra's that have shady interactions.

So with that in mind I think that the mass claim is probably for the best, and in flagrant disregard of what my lover said earlier, I'll go ahead and declare that I'm paired with DiamonSentinel. Interestingly we both independently hated on the dice routine.

In our topic we basically discussed what the setup was because apparently neither of us read it before signing up, then freaking out when we realised that we had no idea how to scumhunt in this scenario, and then to claim or not claim. We decided we'd just go with the flow, so, here I am, flowing away.

That kinda sounds gross :V

You mean here?

Why did you claim despite your claim that your lover suggesting you hide it?

[Sky_Paladin]

Mainly for the reason stated immediately before claiming -

I guess what we are looking for is the set of interactions between declared groups that seem suspicious. If you think of every player group as a hydra, we're looking for the two hydra's that have shady interactions.

So with that in mind I think that the mass claim is probably for the best

I hadn't seen any argument so far that made keeping the claims secret worthwhile and by that time over half the groups had claimed, iirc.

[MathBlade]

Mainly?

What is/are the other reason(s)?

[Mathdino]

@MathBlade when you are caught up, I would also caution you to examine the Tora/Sheep slot and it's buddying to your own. Dino's blanket acceptance and auto pass of the slot are one of the key reasons I am scumreading your slot.

How does telling them "Hey I'm scumreading your slot because Dino's been townreading Tora/Sheep, can you take a look at them?"

actually help Math come to an unbiased opinion?

I guess what I'm asking is, why tell them why you're scumreading us at all?

[Sky_Paladin]

What is/are the other reason(s)?

I just said it in that exact post - note past tense.

I hadn't seen any argument so far that made keeping the claims secret worthwhile and by that time over half the groups had claimed, iirc

Dino

I guess what I'm asking is, why tell them why you're scumreading us at all?

bzzzt! This looks to me that you are complaining that my scumread is unfair, rather than actively going out and proving why you are town.

I intuitively want to townread Blade because he's doing the hard yards, but you're just browbeating players into submission and making no real effort outside of arbitrary and random lynch. Yes I accept that is your stated goal. It doesn't mean I like it.

I'm trying to get Blade to look at his partners supposed town reads because I can glean a lot from your net alignment by seeing what he does about it.

[Sky_Paladin]

I mean Dino you have posted a fucking lot in this game and you're only scumreads are the players who are voting you? Am I mistaken?

[sheepsaysmeep]

"your" not "you're"

[MathBlade]

pairs:
tor and sheep
mathdina and amrochora
redflavor and manrock

unclaimed:
cytheflyguy
kop
sky
bigfin
diamon
lalendra

K this means that either A) red and rock and tor and sheep claimed early intentionally
Or it’s the same 4 group before

@Sky did you have specific questions I missed? You said you were looking forward to something?

[Sky_Paladin]

@MathBlade

post 535, I accept that you might have thought I was talking to Dino >_>

[MathBlade]

@MathBlade

when you are caught up, I would also caution you to examine the Tora/Sheep slot and it's buddying to your own. Dino's blanket acceptance and auto pass of the slot are one of the key reasons I am scumreading your slot.
Especially note Sheep has jumped off the Cy-wagon with the barest provocation.
The other reason is mainly Dino's attitude and playstyle seems hellbent on his way or the highway and that looks a lot like open wolfing to me. I do appreciate your efforts to actually play the game though.

That seems counter intuitive and what emotion did you feel when Diamond did that?

It fit exactly in line with Diamond wanting to know how town felt about claiming before deciding whether or not we should claim. I will admit being surprised that Diamond was the first person to bring it up.

Sorry no I just missed it.

Tired after a day of work.

I always post thoughts as I am reading. The VCA just narrows the search and you happened to be posting so you get questions. So yes I will be looking at all people I mentioned as I post.

Namely the first thing I noticed is that if cy isn’t scum the scumteam would have had to mass plan to claim lovers which is odd. This entire game is odd but that’s unique.

What do you make of that Paladin?

[Mathdino]

bzzzt! This looks to me that you are complaining that my scumread is unfair, rather than actively going out and proving why you are town.

I intuitively want to townread Blade because he's doing the hard yards, but you're just browbeating players into submission and making no real effort outside of arbitrary and random lynch. Yes I accept that is your stated goal. It doesn't mean I like it.

I'm trying to get Blade to look at his partners supposed town reads because I can glean a lot from your net alignment by seeing what he does about it.

1. No, I don't know where you even got that impression. Also all I've been doing lately is trying to prove I'm town by the metrics that I use to scumhunt in this setup; getting my partner to townslip. I'm saying that telling them "Yo I'm scumreading your slot because of Dino's sheep/Tora read" does nothing to help read sheep/Tora. All you had to say was "I'm concerned about sheep/Tora, and Dino is townreading them, and I want your opinion". The way you phrased it almost looks like you're threatening Math into disagreeing with me.

That's

why I asked.

Remember when Misa replaced in and I asked people not to comment or lead her in some direction? If Math is gonna come up with reads, I'd like them to be unbiased as possible, as Math is the only townie I know I can trust.

2. That's utterly ridiculous. When asked for reads or comments on particular interactions, I say something. I've also brought new evidence to light. Even if you cut out every single post I've made about random lynching, I've still done more sorting/analysis than

literally everyone else here

. Except maybe sheep because hyperposting.

Your perception is skewed because I have a high percentage of posts about my strategy. But no one in this game is even active enough to provide other things to talk about.

3. Why should Math care about why I read things the way I do if they know I'm town? If we end up disagreeing on who to lynch, that's the point where we start to care.


I'm not accusing you of not making an effort. I think phrased differently, your questions would be good.

I'm accusing you of asking leading questions that don't help your stated goal of sorting us, and rather incentivise us agreeing with your ideas.

[LlamaFluff]

cytheflyguy has been prodded

[Sky_Paladin]

Namely the first thing I noticed is that if cy isn’t scum the scumteam would have had to mass plan to claim lovers which is odd.

- I don't see how Cy being town leads to a scum mass claim. Could you please clarify?

With the benefit of hindsight - speculating - if I was in the scum qt (I presume it's all 4 in there, and not just 2x2 scum topics) I would want us to all pick a lover so we could get our story's straight, and then push for a claim up front. Acting first and decisively looks towny imo.
In this circumstance there is some benefit to Dino's qt interrogation as scum either have to fabricate or all universally and on their own decide not to post at all (or lie and say they did in the main thread).
I fully expect scum anticipated having to claim their thread and made plans to accomodate it; which is why I feel that Dino's bait-and-slip technique doesn't truly yield town/scumslips as he believes.