Open 705: Polygamist - Game Over

[Mathdino]

I fully expect scum anticipated having to claim their thread and made plans to accomodate it; which is why I feel that Dino's bait-and-slip technique doesn't truly yield town/scumslips as he believes.

The majority of the original players in this game weren't even around during that period of time. I've been checking over the last few days.

cytheflyguy wasn't posting onsite from 27th to 31st. Him not posting at all is correct.

The guy I replaced siteflaked.

The guy sheep replaced siteflaked.

manrock probably actually did claim he was gonna hit 100 posts. Doesn't really seem like something scum would say in their PT.

IIRC Kop wasn't around during that period of time that he claims he didn't check the PT. His story checks out.

Most of our PTs are devoid of info due to low activity.

[MathBlade]

Assume cy is town
At least one of the red / y group or Toranaga / y group scum

Both groups claimed hella early.

Meaning it would be planned.

[Mathdino]

Or they just selected at random from the 4.

I don't think we can make much headway on the time at which they claimed. If I were mafia replacing a guy who wasn't even in the PT with a scumpartner who just said "Hello" in the PT, I'd probably just pick at random too to get a leg up on the claiming.

[MathBlade]

Or they just selected at random from the 4.

I don't think we can make much headway on the time at which they claimed. If I were mafia replacing a guy who wasn't even in the PT with a scumpartner who just said "Hello" in the PT, I'd probably just pick at random too to get a leg up on the claiming.

Yes. They could have.

But then still planned intentional claim regardless.

[sheepsaysmeep]

i see where youre coming from
but like
can you see a world where cy is town and red pair/my pair are both town that were auto sold on claiming being beneficial, and scum didnt go over claiming or werent sure

[MathBlade]

Toranaga and sheepsaymeep

pisskop

Mathdino and

Amrochora/MisaTange

MathBlade
Redflavor and

manrock

Hyung
Cy and lalendra
Diamond and Sky
Kop and

bigfinn

momo

Assume pairs 1,2,3,4,5 all town is your question if I understand.

Then Diamond and Sky and momo and Kop would have to be scum.

Unlikely diamond or sky don’t then hop on the cy wagon during the we don’t give a shit phase with that many seemingly inactive.

Possible yes likely no.

[Mathdino]

Okay look if we're getting into legit scumhunting planning mode (there's no going back to Economics Wonderland if my own partner isn't backing me up on this)

Think about this. We can potentially get the votes of sheep/Tora and Red/Hyung. Kop/momo is possible. Clearly cy/Lalendra and Sky/Diamond are very opposed to lynching the other pair. Is that a scumtell? I don't know. By Sky's logic, it is, but I have no idea, and I lowkey believe that one of the pairs is just trying to make it look like they're all scum together.

If cy/Lalendra is town, and we lynch them, Sky/Diamond are likely to fuck us over by voting with Math's alternate team Kop/momo/Red/hyung. Loss.

If Sky/Diamond is town, and we lynch them, we still have the votes tomorrow to counteract scum.

And because I'm definitely gonna get accused of this, yes, this is policy territory. I believe Sky/Diamond's fixation on everyone I'm townreading (and also total lack of apparent townreads) is a LyLo liability, if not scum. They're also very likely to be scum.


The main trouble with this setup, as I've said, is a political one. Thinking politically, Sky/Diamond is a significantly better lynch than Lalendra/cy. I believe Lalendra/cy, if not scum, will be better in LyLo tomorrow.

Unless you have reason to suspect one pair OVER the other, if we're gonna test the cy/Lalendra/Sky/Diamond thing, we should get Diamond.

[MathBlade]

That I actually agree with but I really just think it is that four so any of that four is fine.

I think we will end up lynching Diamond but give me some room here Dino.

I wanna see how people react to this idea.

[cytheflyguy]

God damn I am here. I Quick Quoted some things of interest and want to put my 2 cents in things.

[cytheflyguy]

I admittedly over-rely on slips. I consider your opening to be townslippy enough to consider you town.

So I'll revise.

I can't scumhunt in this game the way that Sky, Diamond, Lalendra, and cy want me to, because day associations are bullshit.

I do believe I can scumhunt through baiting scumslips and figuring out who's lying about their PTs though, because that doesn't rely on the "there are 2 hydrae who are scum together and will interact weirdly in the day thread" theory.

Problem is scumslips almost never actually happen and I didn't expect a situation as blatant as this.

1. Try to actually scumhunt. Don't rely on slips or whatever. Slips

never

actually happen. Not almost never.

Never

. Additionally, stop trying to think this through logically. Mafia is a social game. Social interactions, are by their very nature, illogical. Rather, rely on your gut to determine who is scum and who is not. Your subconscious is a lot better at discerning people's nature than your conscious brain. That's why I'm still wishy washy about my vote on you. I can't tell if you're just ick town, or truly scum.

2. Just because someone's playstyle doesn't strictly align with yours does not make them scum. I detest your playstyle, and how you insist on relying on logic alone, completely removing the social aspect from the game, and it seems that you feel similarly about my playstyle. That's fine. You can refuse to align yourself with my playstyle, and I am going to do the same anyways. Relying on private topics for inconsistencies or scumslips just

doesn't work

. So I refuse to take part in it.

3. I'm refusing to join in your PT-slip witch hunt out of principle. Nothing more.

This is actually bothersome. Mafia is not a game of principle anymore than it is of economics. It is a game of deception -- pure and simple. Also slips do happen?

Getting tired of this.

1. I've already given massive mountains of evidence that playing this setup socially is anti-town. Gutreads are, in most games, abysmal. The hilarious thing though is I'm gut-townreading Tora/sheep and you're also giving me shit for that.
"ick town" trying to push the objectively pro-town strategy

that you already agreed was pro-town

, and you still accuse me of playing badly. Jesus christ. If you have that little respect for me, meta my towngames and my scumgames to at least see I'm a legitimately good player and I mold my playstyle to my role (role, not alignment) and the setup. Maybe then we can stop this slapfight.

2. Oh screw you. I'm not doing anything to actively stop you from scumhunting. But you're actively hampering the way I play the game. You complain about no content to read. I'm trying to produce content to gut read.

3. ahahahahaha that feel when people's principles lose games
oh man i see this shit all the time

1. Son, you ain't seen nothin yet. I'm fairly accurate, and jokes on you, all my reads are gut. I'm just not charismatic enough to convince others because they insist on "proof" and other lies.

2. Oh, but you are. You've been filling the game with unusable content which is letting the scum hide. Which is why I've determined to lynch you today. Either you're scum hiding other scum (yay) or you're town letting the scum hide. Either way, you gotta go.

3. My principle has yet to lose me a game, tyvm

That being said, post 2 is very much in the right. However, math is NAI, so I cannot agree for a lynch on MathDino simply because of his posting. Yes, I do agree because of the fact we did not go through with it, it did hinder progress, any alignment could have come up with that argument. It's because of that, that I kinda want to push you for now.

VOTE: Dimond

Honestly I've kind of given up, if I'm going to get lynched D1 because of arbitrary random voting and math, then what's the point in defending? Nothing I say matters if we're just playing the lottery.

Don't give up, dear lover! There's still hope in our survival.

2 and 3 are the main reasons I think Cy is probably town. I feel if we had scum at L-2 there would be a lot more posts from outraged players, eh?

Sorry to butt in and ruin all the fun, but in line with my "scumhunting is scummy and completely ineffective" beliefs:

Correct play for scum with cy/Lalendra is to NOT post a ton of outrage to make it look like there's no one defending them, in the hopes that town will whip up a lynch on someone else.

Dude, this is sooooo WIFOM and you know it.

[cytheflyguy]

Also I find it hella ironic that a pair of lover's URL is both math based, and unlike math, which is supposed to be the most universal truth ever, they can't agree on anything.

[MathBlade]

Erm...

I can’t understand cy’s post because I don’t know if cy means me, Dino, or actual math.

Can someone help translate?

[MathBlade]

Also I find it hella ironic that a pair of lover's URL is both math based, and unlike math, which is supposed to be the most universal truth ever, they can't agree on anything.

Dino is applied math.

I am pure math.

The truth is there somewhere.

But I still think you’re scum even though that is hilarious.

[cytheflyguy]

Think about this. We can potentially get the votes of sheep/Tora and Red/Hyung. Kop/momo is possible. Clearly cy/Lalendra and Sky/Diamond are very opposed to lynching the other pair. Is that a scumtell? I don't know. By Sky's logic, it is, but I have no idea, and I lowkey believe that one of the pairs is just trying to make it look like they're all scum together.

I actually misread this as I was skimming over shit, lmao.

[cytheflyguy]

Erm...

I can’t understand cy’s post because I don’t know if cy means me, Dino, or actual math.

Can someone help translate?

Actual math. And you can ask me directly, you know.

[sheepsaysmeep]

I am pure math.

e g o

[cytheflyguy]

Also I find it hella ironic that a pair of lover's URL is both math based, and unlike math, which is supposed to be the most universal truth ever, they can't agree on anything.

Dino is applied math.

I am pure math.

The truth is there somewhere.

But I still think you’re scum even though that is hilarious.

Everyone does but I never die D1. Another added layer of irony.

[sheepsaysmeep]

meh

[sheepsaysmeep]

and sheep is bad at math

[sheepsaysmeep]

shit how does dino outpost me

[Mathdino]

I'm honestly gonna be pretty peeved if we lose this because Math's reads are wrong, like those of every town before us. I'd take the 70% winrate anyday. But if we're doing this,

VOTE: Diamond

I guess Math's reads are, in theory, as arbitrary as anyone's.

@sheep: Pure math is theoretical mathematics. Some crazy shit. Number theory is a major example. Prime numbers. Stuff like that.

Applied math is self-explanatory.

[MathBlade]

I am pure math.

e g o

Pure math is a type of math. Not ego.

Although ...*blush*

[MathBlade]

I'm honestly gonna be pretty peeved if we lose this because Math's reads are wrong, like those of every town before us. I'd take the 70% winrate anyday. But if we're doing this,

VOTE: Diamond

I guess Math's reads are, in theory, as arbitrary as anyone's.

@sheep: Pure math is theoretical mathematics. Some crazy shit. Number theory is a major example. Prime numbers. Stuff like that.

Applied math is self-explanatory.

VOTE: Diamond

[sheepsaysmeep]

wikipedia is your friend

[sheepsaysmeep]

i can go with diamond