Micro 767: Spyro the Dragon Mafia - Game Over

[northsidegal]

what incentive did he have to lie? there's literally

no way

that he could have hidden the doublevoting aspect of his role if he intended to use it unlike beeboy who, if i recall correctly, could have dayvigged someone just by pming the mod.

wisdom doesn't seem to be making any effort to win the game, yes, but it also doesn't seem like he's scum coasting – i would presume scum in his situation would at least have

something

to say in the scenario that he's been in. that's not to say that i'm not eventually willing to lynch him if the game continues, just that i think he's more likely to be town than ucv is.

[Kublai Khan]

what incentive did he have to lie? there's literally

no way

that he could have hidden the doublevoting aspect of his role if he intended to use it unlike beeboy who, if i recall correctly, could have dayvigged someone just by pming the mod.

Your analysis seems to be ignoring that we had zero idea that he was a double-voter until he made it completely public out of nowhere. You're selling me that that's a scum move?

wisdom doesn't seem to be making any effort to win the game, yes, but it also doesn't seem like he's scum coasting – i would presume scum in his situation would at least have

something

to say in the scenario that he's been in. that's not to say that i'm not eventually willing to lynch him if the game continues, just that i think he's more likely to be town than ucv is.

So if Wisdom was scum, he'd be doing exactly what you're doing now?

[Not_Mafia]

VC 2.01

garaputo (0)-

northsidegal (1)-

Wisdom

Wisdom (2)-

BuJaber, Kublai Khan

(L-2)

BuJaber (0)-

UC Voyager (0)-

Kublai Khan (0)-

Not Voting (3)-

garaputo, nortsidegal, UC Voyager,

With 6 alive, it takes 4 to lynch.

Deadline is in (expired on 2018-01-23 00:00:00) - Jan 23rd Midnight GMT

[Not_Mafia]

Prodding UC Voyager

[northsidegal]

Your analysis seems to be ignoring that we had zero idea that he was a double-voter until he made it completely public out of nowhere. You're selling me that that's a scum move?

answer me this – what

would

be a scum way of revealing the double vote, outside of some obvious scenario of using it to quickhammer someone at l-2?

wisdom doesn't seem to be making any effort to win the game, yes, but it also doesn't seem like he's scum coasting – i would presume scum in his situation would at least have

something

to say in the scenario that he's been in. that's not to say that i'm not eventually willing to lynch him if the game continues, just that i think he's more likely to be town than ucv is.

So if Wisdom was scum, he'd be doing exactly what you're doing now?

if by "doing exactly what you're doing now" you mean "saying anything game-relevant at all", then yes, that's what i think he would be doing. if you intended that as pointing out some sort of hypocrisy (which is what it feels like you're insinuating), then i'm not really sure what to say.

[northsidegal]

like, i don't think i can make this clear enough – if ucv intended to use his double vote at all day one, even completely disregarding his alignment i would still expect him to reveal it in the way that he did. it's

completely

non-alignment indicative.

i also think that this conversation has become too focused on who's correct in this argument rather than what it actually means for the game at large, so i'm happy to just stop talking about it if you'd like.

[Kublai Khan]

Your analysis seems to be ignoring that we had zero idea that he was a double-voter until he made it completely public out of nowhere. You're selling me that that's a scum move?

answer me this – what

would

be a scum way of revealing the double vote, outside of some obvious scenario of using it to quickhammer someone at l-2?

That's been one of my points. If he's scum with a public Day 1 only double vote at his disposal, then this is a bastard game where the mod screwed him over.

wisdom doesn't seem to be making any effort to win the game, yes, but it also doesn't seem like he's scum coasting – i would presume scum in his situation would at least have

something

to say in the scenario that he's been in. that's not to say that i'm not eventually willing to lynch him if the game continues, just that i think he's more likely to be town than ucv is.

So if Wisdom was scum, he'd be doing exactly what you're doing now?

if by "doing exactly what you're doing now" you mean "saying anything game-relevant at all", then yes, that's what i think he would be doing. if you intended that as pointing out some sort of hypocrisy (which is what it feels like you're insinuating), then i'm not really sure what to say.

His behavior is causing him to completely fly under your radar. And it's working.

[northsidegal]

That's been one of my points. If he's scum with a public Day 1 only double vote at his disposal, then this is a bastard game where the mod screwed him over.

i still don't see why – how did the mod screw him over? i mean, i can think of reasons why you might think this but none of them make sense to me, so i want to hear your reasoning.

His behavior is causing him to completely fly under your radar. And it's working.

i mean, i'll concede that being averse to lurker lynches has definitely thrown me off in games before, but the fact also exists that many lurkers have been lynched, flipped town, and nothing was really gained. like i said, i'm entirely willing to lynch wisdom, i just think ucv is a better vote. that's all.

[garaputo]

like, i don't think i can make this clear enough – if ucv intended to use his double vote at all day one, even completely disregarding his alignment i would still expect him to reveal it in the way that he did. it's

completely

non-alignment indicative.

i also think that this conversation has become too focused on who's correct in this argument rather than what it actually means for the game at large, so i'm happy to just stop talking about it if you'd like.

I think that is the rub. I think you are correct that *if* UCV wants to use the doublevote it's NAI.

I think answering that if may actually be alignment indicative.

I can easily see a world where scum wouldn't want the attention.

[garaputo]

VOTE: wisdom

Garaputo is next in case wisdom is town. Let's flip assumptions upside down.

tbh we can just keep lynching until we win

scum dont seem like they can kill after all

My thought exactly, but does anyone else think if UCV is scum we're just screwed? I am not prepared to suspect him. With the exception of Khan and UCV,

I will lynch everyone else one by one

.

tbh Khan I wouldn't be shocked if nsg were scum, and it's not like wisdom will vote for himself.

This would at least be an entertaining premise, one that I'd be more willing to entertain if I trusted you.

[BuJaber]

Likewise garap. Yeah I've been townreading you forever, but that is what makes you dangerous alive if we don't lynch scum today, because you could be scum and the only way I'd know is through a guess or process of elimination.


This is frustrating. I get nsg's point. So I reread UCV's ISO. I should have done it earlier. UCV's ISO is lacking. His RVS vote seems too unrandom. From what I can see the only people he's suspected all game were Rat and me.
From what I gather there is also a meta change from his town game. Whether that definitely means he's scum I'm not sure.

It also occurs to me that just because I was wrong with rat doesn't mean I've been wrong about wisdom/garaputo. And it is very difficult to play if you never trust your reads/instincts.

Okay if UCV is telling the truth and town then he is just a VT now. So worse case scenario we hit another VT.

Because of how wisdom is playing his lynch will always be debated. So maybe we don't need to lynch him first.
Wisdom why are you suspecting nsg?

VOTE: UCV

[BuJaber]

From what I can see the only people he's suspected all game were Rat and me.

To add to this, he didn't participate in AFM lynch, doesn't mention her or interact with her until after her lynch to push the rat lynch.

[garaputo]

Likewise garap. Yeah I've been townreading you forever, but that is what makes you dangerous alive if we don't lynch scum today, because you could be scum and the only way I'd know is through a guess or process of elimination.

I get this, all I ask is that if you do want to kill me, do it early, don't make me the kill at lynch or lose time.

This is frustrating. I get nsg's point. So I reread UCV's ISO. I should have done it earlier. UCV's ISO is lacking. His RVS vote seems too unrandom. From what I can see the only people he's suspected all game were Rat and me.
From what I gather there is also a meta change from his town game. Whether that definitely means he's scum I'm not sure.

It also occurs to me that just because I was wrong with rat doesn't mean I've been wrong about wisdom/garaputo. And it is very difficult to play if you never trust your reads/instincts.

This resonates with me.

Okay if UCV is telling the truth and town then he is just a VT now. So worse case scenario we hit another VT.

Because of how wisdom is playing his lynch will always be debated. So maybe we don't need to lynch him first.
Wisdom why are you suspecting nsg?

VOTE: UCV

From what I can see the only people he's suspected all game were Rat and me.

To add to this, he didn't participate in AFM lynch, doesn't mention her or interact with her until after her lynch to push the rat lynch.

Ok sure, I'll play along with that for now.

VOTE: UCV

[UC Voyager]

Prod dodge.
I will get around to this game later.

[northsidegal]

bujaber's flipping back and forth on the ucv slot is giving me pause. bu, what happened to your ucv hard townread? was it really just an iso reread? why were you townreading him before the iso reread?

[BuJaber]

Because I've been playing a lot of games with UCV and may have mixed up his posts. It's a silly mistake and I feel idiotic and I understand if that means you can't trust me this game.

[garaputo]

I am less confident in my reads since the Rat flip, but I also am getting more and more into the spirit of let's do stuff and see what happens here.

[UC Voyager]

Because I've been playing a lot of games with UCV and may have mixed up his posts. It's a silly mistake and I feel idiotic and I understand if that means you can't trust me this game.

Yea. This makes since

[Not_Mafia]

Prodding Wisdom, if he is prodded again he will be repalced immediately.

[Kublai Khan]

THis game is dragging as both UC Voyager and Wisdom are testing the patience of the other players.

I'm ready to lynch one then the other. FFS.

[Wisdom]

lets just lynch someone already

[Wisdom]

uc has two votes? works for me

VOTE: uc

[UC Voyager]

no. i only have one now.

[Not_Mafia]

VC 2.02

garaputo (0)-

northsidegal (0)-

Wisdom (1)-

Kublai Khan

BuJaber (0)-

UC Voyager (3)-

BuJaber, garaputo, Wisdom

(L-1)

Kublai Khan (0)-

Not Voting (2)-

nortsidegal, UC Voyager

With 6 alive, it takes 4 to lynch.

Deadline is in (expired on 2018-01-23 00:00:00) - Jan 23rd Midnight GMT

[Kublai Khan]

You guys are still townreading Wisdom? Seriously?