Mini 1968: Bread uPick: The Baker's Dozen: Endgame

Firebringer
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Post Post #1225  (ISO)  » Thu Jan 11, 2018 1:46 pm

In post 1223, Gorkington wrote:i basically claimed when firebringer said he was going to shoot me tbh.
i didnt realize he was joking.
lol

I took ur claim seriously until I saw night skip and thought u did it too
Eddie Cane

Firebringer
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Post Post #1226  (ISO)  » Thu Jan 11, 2018 1:47 pm

I wanted to shoot two scum :(
Eddie Cane

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Post Post #1227  (ISO)  » Thu Jan 11, 2018 1:47 pm

I like easy wins.
Make mafiascum great again

WhemeStar
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Post Post #1228  (ISO)  » Thu Jan 11, 2018 2:00 pm

Ggwp
Im a dog that quacks

Fishythefish
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Post Post #1229  (ISO)  » Thu Jan 11, 2018 2:14 pm

Well done town. Thanks to everyone for playing, and the mod for running a very smooth game.

The setup seems heavily town sided - there are some very strong roles in there, every townie is a PR, and the scumteam is basically vanilla. We were also roundly outplayed in the thread, but I think even a more balanced game skill-wise would have resulted in an easy town win.

For my part, I was actually playing to get scumread at the end of Day 2 (but not before). By then, I'd decided our only chance was a cop investigation on me, as I was a Godfather (which looks like it didn't actually do anything?). Similarly, my claim today was a desperate attempt to survive a day and draw PRs onto me.

One unfortunate thing - scum roles (including mine) did have the same fakeclaim as role. So if Wheme had investigated me, he'd have got a "clear" in exactly the same way he did for dunkers.

BlackVoid
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Post Post #1230  (ISO)  » Thu Jan 11, 2018 2:17 pm

You played well Fishy despite your partners lurking. So much of what you posted made sense to me though. Would be interesting to see you as town.

Good game everyone and great modding jj, loved the flavor. Shoutout to skitter for being an awesome hydra partner.

Dunkerdoodles
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Post Post #1231  (ISO)  » Thu Jan 11, 2018 2:26 pm

Sorry I’m bad
Thx 4 carry

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Post Post #1232  (ISO)  » Thu Jan 11, 2018 2:30 pm

I didn't pay much attention the setup.
Make mafiascum great again

drealmerz7
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Post Post #1233  (ISO)  » Thu Jan 11, 2018 5:50 pm

hey wow cool
balance among all things

jjh927
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Post Post #1234  (ISO)  » Thu Jan 11, 2018 6:52 pm

On balance- I think I missed how the nightskip would interact with both the vig and with the banana-fueled strongman. However, 3 groupscum in a 13 player game is not to be overstated, and town's strongest investigative role was a tracker. The nightskip is probably the big thing that would cause imbalance.



That being said, town stomped here for other reasons, like most of the town agreeing on who the scum was and being correct. Also of note is that scum shot a claimed miller for some reason
"It took jjh pulling out his sleuth hat, being Splatlock Holmes and hitting people in the face with all of the things" -Gorkington

jjh927
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Post Post #1235  (ISO)  » Thu Jan 11, 2018 7:01 pm

On another note I don't feel as funny for conceiving of a bread uPick as I did before I had to take it seriously but tiger bread being a natural breadator is gold
"It took jjh pulling out his sleuth hat, being Splatlock Holmes and hitting people in the face with all of the things" -Gorkington

mhsmith0
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Post Post #1236  (ISO)  » Thu Jan 11, 2018 10:20 pm

In this setup, scum strength was HIGHLY dependent on the banana bread. It was a very powerful role for scum utility AND it had a ready made PR claim (even night cop) that would generally push off a wagon AND interact really well with the godfather role (either to make a “cop check” on it or to essentially be townfirmed after a godfather flip). It getting vigged n1 was devastating to scums chances (I feel like most of the time, town nightskipper activates for n1 which delays the banana role from actually having to “confirm” anyone, and of course removes the chance of a vig shot there n1 as well)

Scum also had a neighbor role which’s usually extremely strong, though I can’t say how well that worked out here.
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Fishythefish
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Post Post #1237  (ISO)  » Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:59 am

I'm not sure I see how banana bread is that strong? An unblockable kill every other night is not *that* big a deal. Particularly when you compare it with things like vig and nightskip, which are guaranteed to improve the usual lynch/kill cycle in town's favour (which particularly hurts here, where there are lots of people who can be confirmed or nearly confirmed town)

mhsmith0
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Post Post #1238  (ISO)  » Fri Jan 12, 2018 2:07 am

Even night strongman is fairly strong, but the main thing is that the fakeclaim is blatantly manipulable, either to "conftown" the godfather or to be essentially conftown when the GF flips.

In terms of conftowns and basically unlynchables to deal with, you had:
friendly neighbor (nerfed to be a lover)
odd night vig (presuming night is skipped, you guys get two day phases to suss this role out and/or potentially just get lucky n2... and most of the time it's getting just one shot off due ot the n1 nightskip)
tracker/motion detector might think they're CC's of each other
2-shot jailkeeper isn't all that strong and can reasonably be a scum role
...

the only roles that are by setup truly hard to lynch are the odd night vig, the friendly neighbor, and the 1-shot nightskip. The rest are potentially lynchable, all the more so given that you have one role (banana bread) that looks massively like a town role, and i think plenty of towns just write that one off as town (and since it's essentially an even night cop that doens't have to make a peek n2, you're looking at something that usually only forces you to make ONE claimed cop peek, so it's not like this is really restrictive either)
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mhsmith0
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Post Post #1239  (ISO)  » Fri Jan 12, 2018 2:08 am

possibly wolves could have used some kind of gated ninja, but then that would make the tracker/motion detector look more town so gains and losses on that end *shrugs*
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jjh927
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Post Post #1240  (ISO)  » Fri Jan 12, 2018 8:33 am

In post 1236, mhsmith0 wrote:In this setup, scum strength was HIGHLY dependent on the banana bread. It was a very powerful role for scum utility AND it had a ready made PR claim (even night cop) that would generally push off a wagon AND interact really well with the godfather role (either to make a “cop check” on it or to essentially be townfirmed after a godfather flip). It getting vigged n1 was devastating to scums chances (I feel like most of the time, town nightskipper activates for n1 which delays the banana role from actually having to “confirm” anyone, and of course removes the chance of a vig shot there n1 as well)

Scum also had a neighbor role which’s usually extremely strong, though I can’t say how well that worked out here.



The hood was hardly used ftr
"It took jjh pulling out his sleuth hat, being Splatlock Holmes and hitting people in the face with all of the things" -Gorkington

Fishythefish
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Post Post #1241  (ISO)  » Fri Jan 12, 2018 12:05 pm

I’m not sure I see how strongman’s fakeclaim was that solid... isn’t it just a cop claim?

Yeah, those three were the roles I was thinking of as unlynchable. 3 unlynchable roles, and a few more that could end up that way, seems a lot to me. This may just be the shifting meta - I haven’t played much in a while, and I understand towns have more power than in the old days.

Fishythefish
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Post Post #1242  (ISO)  » Fri Jan 12, 2018 12:07 pm

Oh, ok - the strongman investigates the gf, and looks good even after the flip. I guess that would have been a pretty big deal.

Cheetory6
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Post Post #1243  (ISO)  » Fri Jan 12, 2018 12:45 pm

I think it's moreso that the godfather flip makes the town cop safeclaim seem extra legit.
Trash.

mhsmith0
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Post Post #1244  (ISO)  » Fri Jan 12, 2018 5:48 pm

I think it's both.

Certainly the godfather flip makes the safeclaim seem super legit (and the rolecop picking up the fakeclaim, not the real ability, could boost that even further), but the cop slot also has the opportunity to pick up a "green check" on the godfather, defend it to the death, and then have a perfectly valid explanation for being wrong. Tactically, there's lots of options on the table potentially, but yes, the #1 benefit is seemingly townfirming the cop claim after the GF flip.

PS My reviewer meta makes the 1-shot nightskipper not a lock town role, as creature (who, as scum, was the backup to the town 1-shot nightskipper in thinkbig's large gods theme, could have attested)
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mhsmith0
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Post Post #1245  (ISO)  » Fri Jan 12, 2018 5:49 pm

In post 1240, jjh927 wrote:The hood was hardly used ftr

And that's probably on the scum team. A hood is a great chance to potentially manipulate a townie, especially given a PR (enabler) that seemed likely to be town in that spot.
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jjh927
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Post Post #1246  (ISO)  » Fri Jan 12, 2018 6:40 pm

Thanks again for reviewing btw, mhsmith0, especially considering the wacky timescales
"It took jjh pulling out his sleuth hat, being Splatlock Holmes and hitting people in the face with all of the things" -Gorkington

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Post Post #1247  (ISO)  » Fri Jan 12, 2018 7:51 pm

the maf team was actually broken. I agree with smith here. Thanks for hosting jjh <3

McMenno
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Post Post #1248  (ISO)  » Thu Jan 18, 2018 7:50 pm

sorry for flaking was very stressed out by this game

jjh927
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Post Post #1249  (ISO)  » Fri Jan 19, 2018 2:50 am

"It took jjh pulling out his sleuth hat, being Splatlock Holmes and hitting people in the face with all of the things" -Gorkington

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