Mini 1968: Bread uPick: The Baker's Dozen: Endgame

[Dunkerdoodles]

hi whos scum

[Dunkerdoodles]

oh right i replaced into this
i'll read up over the holidays i guess

[Dunkerdoodles]

@MOD if you know how to spoiler this without ruining the other spoilers please do so

for the rest of you i'm sorry.
also i'm not giving reasoning for any of these, so don't ask.

I've been waiting for a month to vote a hydra in RvS.

VOTE: Wormhole

There we go

Forced.

VOTE: creature

Null.

I'm bready to play

Alright...

Actually VOTE: especiallythelies

Genuine.

VOTE: dreal. I'm explicitly not bready.

Smocaine-Indicative.

i dont know who to vote s:
omg

Null.

VOTE: gorkington
Use RNG.

Meh.

Actually VOTE: especiallythelies

why that instead of the other?

You-tried.

anyone want to rollclaim?

haha

Bad,

how about get baked with me?

Forced.

miller claim + this post = locktown

i can pretty much promise you with some degree of certainty that with the two posts creature has already made in this game, hes probably never flipping scum.

hmm

VOTE: Dreal

Serious vote this is scum

hard agree

creature cant post like that as scum.

huh?

VOTE: Dreal

Serious vote this is scum

what? fuck you're terrible at this game

i think scum reaction not sure, he took this way to seriously where town probably doesn't actually believe this read early game.

creature cant post like that as scum.

When you say "can't", are you saying you don't believe he would post that way as scum, or are you saying there's some other reason he physically cannot post a specific way as scum?

Do you have any examples?

-1

Dreal's vote is bad

this post is meaningless

why do you think it is bad?

I think me and ETL are the only 2 players who have actually shown thought behind their votes

learn what bad means pls

dreal + etl?

this game can't possibly be this easy

@Worm

RvS to answer your question.

I feel like I already explained myself with creature, so I'll clarify. Miller claims are either lynched early on or widely townread (depending on set-up in addition). It's a ballsy move that I don't see much scum doing D1, although I'm not ruling out the possibility. Yes, creature's posting itself is null, but for now, creature is a slight townread due tp the claim and what I jist said.

I don't exactly see how playing off-site would help, but yes, I have played off-site more than on MS.

It's a ballsy move that I don't see much scum doing D1, although I'm not ruling out the possibility. Yes, creature's posting itself is null, but for now, creature is a slight townread due tp the claim and what I jist said.

I mean, scum fake claiming miller is a thing that happens day 1. He never got lynched.

And here's another day1 scum!miller claim that didn't get lynched for several days

I could prob rustle up some more examples, but those are the two instances I knew about off the top of my head.

So scum fake-claiming miller day 1 is def a thing that happens.

I do believe that it's town-motivated to claim miller early, as miller claims on later days are kinda dangerous, but I wouldn't give someone a townlean solely because of a miller claim on page 1.

It looks nice, and while both scum and town can miller claim, I'm more inclined for the claim to come from town more than scum imo.

And since we agree that both scum and town can claim miller, I'm not really seeing why you think Creature's claim here is more likely to come from town.
--s

both of these are town

Votecount 1.04

EspeciallyTheLies	L-2	Fykus, Smocaine, Creature, Fenraiser, McMenno
Smocaine	L-5	Gorkington, drealmerz
MisaTange	L-6	EspeciallyTheLies
drealmerz7	L-6	Whemestar
Not Voting	---	CityElectric, Firaja, Wormhole, MisaTange

With 13 alive, it's 7 votes to lynch.

The lynch deadline is in (expired on 2017-12-28 02:15:00).

This isn't a pagetop! Are you trying to poison me?

wow that dreal wagon died quick and 4 people voted etl in a row. dunno what to make of it, but theres not more then 1 scum in those 4 (smocaine, creature, fen, mcmenno)

I never said the bolded. Your parner (s) seemed to misread my earlier words regarding creature and the miller claim.

(There's two of us btw. Me and BV).

Fair enough. I read that as you saying that you thought miller claims were null, so I didn't get how you went from 'early miller claims are null' to 'creature claimed miller early, so he is a townlean'.

Regarding Dreal, it's not that I don't realize he can have a different opinion, it's that I want to understand his opinion about Creature better, and that is why I've been asking him questions about Creature to clarify things. Initially, I thought he jumped the gun on Creature, but I looked back at his posts and saw that he voted Creature after Creature didn't say flavor after the claim and he implied that Creature strayed from their town meta. So, I kind of see the progression and I unvoted, although I wanted to see more elaboration on the Creature meta.

I guess I can kinda follow this, but not really? The context of your unvote is kinda bothering me, given that you make a post reaffirming your reason for voting Dreal (79), and make it seem there like you want more info about Creature's meta before you can determine if Dreal's suspicion is warranted, and then unvote before you hear from Dreal. The unvote really stood out as being really out of place given the context, especially since you didn't yet get that elaboration of Creature's meta and Dreal didn't post in that time.

It does not ring well. I can understand if Creature was straight up scumread by Wormhole, but I don't think a null read can give this type of response because it betrays too much concern of how people sees himself/herself, albeit very slight. There seems to be a bit of self-preservation thrown in there as well in the bolded lines.

I don't get this. I don't think it betrays too much concern of how people see him, so much as showing that he's very self-aware of how he'd react as scum in that situation and why he wouldn't do that as scum. I don't really see self-preservation or worry about he's being perceived. This seems kinda reachy to me.

And you went from voting Dreal for having a scumread on Creature you didn't understand, to unvoting Dreal before you heard from him, to voting Creature with Dreal.

I dunno. The progression is weird and doesn't make much sense to me.

VOTE: Fenraiser

the problem is

I was voting Wormhole, not dreal.

I ain't voting anyone that I don't think we'll get information out of.

What does the bolded mean?

Where was I scumread by Wormhole btw?

You weren't. I'm nulltown on you. BV's concerned that you don't match the towngames he'd seen with you, but he's tending to thinking that you're town here. Neither of were scumreading you at any point.

VOTE: especiallythelies. This dude has 3 posts and voted someone for adding a question mark to their post. I think that's scummy as hell.

I think she's v/la on weekends. Although the question mark post was a tad odd, I agree.

Spoiler:

What would you call it from your POV?

Probably a reminder.

It can't be self-preservation because there was no threat of me being lynched.

Alright. You do make a fair point in terms of self-preservation.

Prodge

I'm down to PLing this one if this behavior continues.

VOTE: ETL

It was never self-preservation in the first place, so I don't really get why you framed that post that way. Still hate your Creature vote; like I said above, I think that post is really reachy. And you ceding that point here is kinda weird after you made a big thing about voting Creature here for it.

Unfortunately Fykus prodges a lot and isn't super-high content. It also isn't AI for him.

I don't especially like how fast this ETL wagon built tbh.

--s

i could read this as trying to take pressure off etl, but that might be a bit confbias

ETL is bad lynch today[/quo
could see whemestar as scum

fire is town

competing lame lurker wagons go:
VOTE: fykus

very random

also kinda forgot i replaced into fen's slot while writing this so i may or may not of put some of fens posts in here by accident.

that's pages 1-10
i probably won't do the rest cause im lazy but ill still read it

[Dunkerdoodles]

oh geez i screwed up some quotes i hate my life

[Dunkerdoodles]

intent to hammer in like a couple hours
apparently he's scummy and then we don't have to worry about this game during xmas

[Dunkerdoodles]

eh well i might wait till tomorrow to give fykus time to claim as he said he wanted to

[Dunkerdoodles]

i would've hammered but i'd get quick lynched tmr and that's no bueno
still waiting on a claim

[Dunkerdoodles]

cool i don't have to hammer anymore
VOTE: Fykus

[Dunkerdoodles]

Dunker knows Fykus is town. Flash mob dunk now pls

i know what you're thinking but i'm not that bad
the reason i said it is that i may or may not have an important role

[Dunkerdoodles]

geez i thought i had good scumreads and now yall are messing with my scumdar

you can't possibly think i'm scum with how fast my wagon formed can you?
if i had to guess scum on my wagon i'd say wheme or fire

[Dunkerdoodles]

oh and also wormhole

[Dunkerdoodles]

VOTE: dreal

[Dunkerdoodles]

Dunker, how much have you read?

not a lot

[Dunkerdoodles]

agree with smocaine dreal is a good lynch

[Dunkerdoodles]

wormhole is commenting a lot on how they are talking to each other and agreeing or disagreeing in (i assume) a private thread or something, and it makes me suspicious because they could just be talking about it in the thread, them keeping in secret makes me think they're scum planning out what to say/do next.

maybe this is wrong but just a thought

[Dunkerdoodles]

ok fykus gets towny points for that post

[Dunkerdoodles]

ah ok that makes sense

[Dunkerdoodles]

VOTE: dreal
oh looked he's hammered goodnight

[Dunkerdoodles]

kind of disappointed that it wasnt a hammer.

Is it really not hammer?

wormhole are you opposed to this lynch?

[Dunkerdoodles]

VOTE: fykus

L-1

[Dunkerdoodles]

lol

[Dunkerdoodles]

wow look at that wagon form
obviously a scum wagon amirite

[Dunkerdoodles]

also worm

they have both seen me as town and i don't think i'm playing different from normal.

plus they have no reasoning for scumreading me that i see

[Dunkerdoodles]

ok so i'm scum for wanting a flip

funny thing is they also scumread dreal and fykus so why should they have a problem with it?

@worm now that fykus flipped town am i still scum?

[Dunkerdoodles]

i would've hammered but i'd get quick lynched tmr and that's no bueno
still waiting on a claim

cool i don't have to hammer anymore
VOTE: Fykus

This is why people scumread you btw
Not just for wanting to hammer but being so self for one of not wanting to be hammer vote and thinking Fuji’s was a mislynch

You didn’t even bother giving a single reason for Fykus

ok?
i'm sorry?
who's fuji lol

[Dunkerdoodles]

k

when did i say fykus was a mislynch?

[Dunkerdoodles]

if he flipped town ofc
i probably wouldn't be quicklynched if he flipped scum lol

[Dunkerdoodles]

lol
i'm town but whatever

idk if fire is overconfident town or scum, probably the former

[Dunkerdoodles]

i might actually be able to semi confirm myself with my claim but idk

[Dunkerdoodles]

maybe tmr

i honestly don't think my play has been particularly scummy but whatever

like i explained my read on worm
and i think it's fair to want a flip when you're kinda confused and just replaced in.

[Dunkerdoodles]

ok
i'm a croissant which is motion detector somehow

no motion around wormhole last night

worm can confirm they by didn't visit anyone and anyone can cc me by saying they visited worm

[Dunkerdoodles]

In fact I think a scum motion detector is highly probable and more likely than a town motion detector given we already have a tracker

1. the tracker isn't confirmed
2. i've never seen scum motion detector in a game and i don't see how it helps scum

[Dunkerdoodles]

ok that's fair

i mentioned in particular that dreal isn't confirmed because fire specifically said he didn't think my role exists with dreal's.
it definitely could they are both somewhat weak investigative roles so.

[Dunkerdoodles]

he already said himself he doesn't think they co-exist, so i'm listing other possibilities.
if i say "they could co-exist" he probably just doesn't believe me and goes back to calling me confscum. it gets us nowhere.

[Dunkerdoodles]

why is mcmenno a townread?

[Dunkerdoodles]

@worm

i suspected you guys d1 and you didn't claim yet so i was thinking a result on you guys would help

[Dunkerdoodles]

VOTE: Wormhole
i'll sheep on dreal/gork too i guess
or anyone else really

[Dunkerdoodles]

okok

[Dunkerdoodles]

i don't want to vote him but i will vote him

i'll also sheep you for that matter if it comes to that

[Dunkerdoodles]

Stop it Dreal. We're not killing Wheme.

[Dunkerdoodles]

i mean i'm town so wheme's not wrong

he could be fakeclaiming but there's bigger things to worry about

[Dunkerdoodles]

Since you suggested it, what did you have in mind Dunk?

i don't understand

if you mean my reads
i still think wormhole is scum but no one believes me

fish and gork both make good points on each other, honestly it

feels

tvt but i couldn't tell

i think dreal could still be scum

idk anything else really

[Dunkerdoodles]

i'm also somewhat-confirmed role wise so

on the fykus thing, i probably worded it badly, so that's my fault. i ment to say if he does flip town i would be lynched most likely cause i hammered him. if he flips scum i obviously wouldn't be in as much trouble, i thought that was obvious when i posted it so i just said what would happen if he flipped town

[Dunkerdoodles]

do you think scum me blatantly says that?
you probably haven't seen my scum game but i suck at it, i'm way less vocal and very passive, i don't make posts like 548

[Dunkerdoodles]

not going to lie i was also trying to soft some sort of powerful pr to bait a nightkill but apparently that didn't work so

[Dunkerdoodles]

mm that was alchemist's mini

keep in mind that was a while ago and also it was my first scum game i'm pretty sure and my partners were hard bussing each other so i had no idea what to do

[Dunkerdoodles]

ok
you're lying scum

the thing is everyone else basically townreads you so like if i just call you lying scum i get lynched.

im trying to provide reasoning behind my reads and giving thoughts.

[Dunkerdoodles]

all those posts also aren't directed at you, they're for anybody to read basically. i just posted them after you asked for explanations so.

[Dunkerdoodles]

theres a cop inno on me, and you call me a "decent and likely lynch"
that makes no sense

[Dunkerdoodles]

if you're going to shoot me just lynch me instead

[Dunkerdoodles]

wormhole and ur lynch pool

[Dunkerdoodles]

Part of me thinks we should just lynch Dunk, because we're wasting time focusing on him. But I really think there are better things we could be doing with our time.

kind of agree
like i'm trying to convince yall im town but fire isn't listening and yall seem to think im scum no matter what so
also my role is like very weak to the point im basically vt so we aren't losing much

[Dunkerdoodles]

i would tell fire to shoot worm when i flip town but if worm flips town i'd feel bad so

if yall lose to worm in the end don't blame me tho

[Dunkerdoodles]

fire can you stop your deathtunnel now that im conf town
thx <3

[Dunkerdoodles]

ok im scumhunting

how guys i found scum

and their name is wormhole

[Dunkerdoodles]

dunk.
read mcmenno's misa progression.
read it.
and then vote him.
because hes scum.
there isnt a world in which worm is getting lynched today. especially not without a case.

yeah ik but they're still scum
VOTE: mcmenno

[Dunkerdoodles]

plus fish called ME scum.
CONFIDENTLY.
and that hurt my feelings.

lol locktown cause this is funny

[Dunkerdoodles]

how is motion detector a strong role?

it's best use is figuring out if someone has a visiting action or not
and even then other people can visit the person to screw with the results.
it's probably one of the weakest prs.

[Dunkerdoodles]

A confession: I'd misunderstood Dunker's role until he asked me how it was powerful. I thought it detected who went in or out, rather than just motion. So I think his reason for softing strong PR to draw the NK makes sense.[/b]

So, where my reads are right now:
{Wormhole, Chickadee, Firebringer} - town
{Wheme, dreal, Smocaine} - weak town
{Gork, Dunker, McMenno} - scum pool

The main changes to that since my initial reread are:
- Wheme up to probtown for role reasons.
- I'm no longer anywhere near as confident as I was in my Gork read. His response has been pretty good - some points in my case I don't think are scummy any more, and he's feeling town in how he's approaching things right now. In particular, I feel like he's genuinely trying to work out what alignment I am in this argument. I still think he may well be a competent scum player who was exposed by a less skillful buddy.

@Firebringer:

please could you answer the question halfway down this post about Gork's meta?

My dunker read is kind of complicated. I think the relevant things are:
- Possible slip in post 584 - moderately scummy

- Softclaiming - mildly scummy. dunk's explanation of drawing the NK is possible, but "scum avoiding the NK" is more likely

- Thinking his claim would get him lots of towncred - mildly townish
- Fenraiser's play - scummy
- Claim backed up by Wheme - I don't actually think this says much about dunk's alignment. But I'm waiting on Wheme to answer a question on that.
Overall, I think dunkers is a good shout for scum.

I'd like to hear what McMenno has to say about Gork's 1018. An early push against Misa, then completely ignoring her for the rest of the day, is a pretty good fit for a partner.

@McMenno

- you said early on that you would "keep an eye" on Misa. How did you read on her change during the day?

So to summarise, where I am is:

- If Wheme's role doesn't clear dunkers, I think he's the most likely scum.

- Otherwise, I'd be torn between Gork and McMenno.

VOTE: dunkers

1. why the contradiction?
2. how does "scum avoiding the nk" make sense?
3. why are you voting a rolecop-cleared person
4. why would wheme claim rolecop to defend me if he was scum?

basically there are 4 scenarios
1. me and wheme are scum pulling an awesome gambit - i wish but no
2. wheme is scum whiteknighting me - also unlikely, scum!wheme would probably just let me die
3. wheme is telling the truth and i am scum motion detector - possible, but scum motion detector is a really weak role and doesn't exist.
4. me and wheme are both town - only logical explanation.

[Dunkerdoodles]

i read fish vs gork as tvt too

[Dunkerdoodles]

basically, atm,

I think that all scum are likely in {dreal/mcmenno/gork/fish}, with a *very* small chance of it being you, just on PoE. I think that wheme/dunk are the same alignment, and I don't think they're scum/scum tbh.

I'm kinda meh on mcmenno. I don't especially think he's scum. I don't especially think he's not scum. He just kinda is. I wouldn't be surprised at a town!mcmenno flip. I wouldn't be surprised at a scum!mcmenno flip.

If mcmenno were to flip town, I'd probably want dreal more tbh.

Do you think that there's both a town!motion detector and a town!tracker? This point is actually one of the major reasons why I'm kinda confused by the role stuff;

I kinda think it's unlikely that both dreal and dunk are town just on roles

, given that MD is just a weaker version tracker. Like it's kinda superfluous to have both imo.

BV kinda doesn't want the day to end though yet, so there's that. He wants to sort dreal.

(this is skitter btw)

um
please town see this

[Dunkerdoodles]

can you not see the blatant contradiction

[Dunkerdoodles]

please note wormhole's attempts to stall the wagon and not giving a clear read on mcmenno and also not participating in the wagon

ps: im really sorry if you're town skitter and bv but i just have a feeling

[Dunkerdoodles]

I really think we should be lynching dunkers here.

The information we have just doesn't clear dunkers - Wheme's now explicitly said that dunkers can be a scum motion detector with his result. And dunkers is the scummier of the two.

this is pretty incriminating tbf though
VOTE: fish

[Dunkerdoodles]

i read fish vs gork as tvt too

what happened to this?

well people can be wrong you know

[Dunkerdoodles]

I think I may as well claim; because I have a role that might mean I'm best left alive today, and we have at least one quickhammerer around.

I am

Shy

. If I'm ever visited by two players in the same night, I automatically die.

Right now,

it would be beneficial if I could die without wasting a lynch or vig shot.

I think we only know of one role who could visit me - Chickadee. If there's another player willing to visit me, I think we should:

- Not lynch me today (hint: lynch dunk instead)

- Kill me off tonight
Obviously, I'd then be lynched tomorrow if I'm alive for any reason.

um
i can visit you
so you literally contradicted yourself in the same post.

[Dunkerdoodles]

just so yall know wormhole can still be scum

[Dunkerdoodles]

you know that just saying that theyre scum isnt really compelling ya?

well i'm probably just wrong anyways so

[Dunkerdoodles]

Sorry I’m bad
Thx 4 carry