Open 706: C9++

[Almost Chara]

Ugh. I know the set-up because I'm VT and I've narrowed the pool for scum and given us enough info to complete set-up spec. Not sure if the trade-off was worth it...

VOTE: CheekyTeeky

1- Being a VT does NOT help you know anything about the setup that isn't already public info.
2- (And this is why I'm voting you), I specifically called for ONE SHOT PRs to claim. WHY would YOU claim VT? The idea was if we had TPRs that are not 1-shot that they would not be identified or narrowed down for no purpose. Your claim is most anti-town and I think it's more likely scum-motivated.

[Sleepless Assassin]

Dave, not sure what more you expect then lol.

Almost chara, I confirm that I'm NOT a one shot power role. Why do you think a VT claim from Cheeky with zero votes and town reads from most players is scum motivated?

[CheekyTeeky]

*eyeroll*

[CheekyTeeky]

There's no point claiming 1s anything quit it or then we have two VTs outed.

[Almost Chara]

Why do you think a VT claim from Cheeky

with zero votes and town reads from most players

is scum motivated?

Because of just that! If Cheeky is NOT in danger of being lynched, why would she claim at all? I only asked for the 1-shot PR (if existent) to claim. If nobody claims it would still be all good for her. Claiming a VT justifies why she doesn't get shot at night despite her being globally TR'd, and Cheeky is no fool, so it was very likely done for that purpose (justify why she would be alive tomorrow).

And then doubles down on it and say it outs 2 VTs. How does "no one claiming 1-shot" out anyone's role? OK, how does outing any 1-shot PR point to a certain other being a VT??

Let's not forget I was SRing Voyc and only decided they might be Town after Cheeky replaced in. I take that back now and will go back to my old reads, which involve Voyc (now Cheeky), Joda and dave (with Chip; now PGML as an outsider).

[Almost Chara]

I mean, I already explained it could be that we have no more PRs alive (unless you count the IC as a PR), so any 1-shot claims only out VTs among VTs. Duh! Named Townies, if you will.

[davesaz]

Saying yes to the 1-shot or not 1-shot question tells scum who that PR is (which they don't know) and also the existence of 1-shot indirectly tells which kind of PR (which they don't know).
Everyone saying no to that question pegs the extra letters (if there are extras) as a full role and tells scum more about what the role(s) could be than town (because scum know how many letters but not what combinationm while town don't even know how many letters).

I do complicated logic for a living. Please don't mess things up by leaking info that doesn't need to be leaked. There is no circumstance where this info helps us find scum, which is our only task at this point in the game.

[Sleepless Assassin]

Eh, I guess I can understand the aspect of not being NKd as scum motivation. I just don't agree with it personally. It's too bold of a move for someone who, if scum, is already positioned pretty nicely. My guess is she was just trying to stop the claims from happening to keep power roles hidden. I do agree with you though that there is no harm in most one shots claiming. A one shot cop claim would even help us. The only one I think should stay hidden is a one shot vig because they are basically confirmed barring counter so having them around would be nice and they have nothing useful to share with us today.

[Almost Chara]

Case against Cheeky:

Cheeky claimed VT. Now let's consider the possibilities:

1- She is really a VT. Now WHY would she out that? Why won't she just be content by eating a bullet for the benefit of Town?
2- She is a PR faking a VT. What PR? Let's see..
a- Is she another Full Cop? She would know that that's 2 additional C's and nobody's claiming. In fact, anyone claiming a 1-shot PR would be SCUM in this case!
b- Is she a 1-shot Cop? If so she has a result and no reason to hide anyway.
c- Doctor? Only one 1-shot PR possible (or none if there's also a Roleblocker), so 5 or 6 Townies still in Mafia shooting pool.
d- 1-shot Doctor? Confirms we do have a full Doctor in the remaining 4 Townies (remember, I'm a Townie but my role in confirmed, so I

am

in Mafia shooting pool, but certainly not anything other than IC)
e- Is she a full Vig? Again, maybe one 1-shot PR claim or none at all.
f- 1-shot Vig? Just claim your kill and it gives no additional info to Mafia.
g- RB? Similar to full Doc.
h- 1-shot RB? Confirms we have a full RB and nothing more.

So, IN NO WAY does her claiming VT make sense either as a VT OR a TPR. Neither a real VT nor a TPR would want to claim VT unprompted like this and under the current circumstances.

The ONLY benefit of claiming a VT is to justify why she lives through the night despite being globally TR'd.

[davesaz]

Do you retract your call for further claims?
What's done is done, but let's not compound things by letting the brush fire grow any further.

In the meantime gotta check something...

[CheekyTeeky]

Are you being intentionally obtuse? Or are you trying to pretend we don't already know the set-up?

[davesaz]

Are you being intentionally obtuse? Or are you trying to pretend we don't already know the set-up?

If this is directed at me, no I'm dead serious. We don't know if it's 1T or 3T, and if it's 1T we don't know what the extra letters represent.
If you do know that then you have too much information to be town.

The thing I needed to check was whether you're outed as an alt.
Is the join date accurate? Much mafia experience?

[CheekyTeeky]

I have an alt, this is my main. I have one completed scum game on site in "Reverse Mafia" I replace in so if you're going to check it out then just ISO me and start from my first post in the game.

Look my derpy hardclaim was my not so subtle hint there are 3 T's. The odds are, statistically speaking, very unlikely that there is only 1 T. I think it's a pretty safe assumption to make that we're playing in a CCMVTTT set-up. It's completely unimportant useless speculation, I don't see what the point of any of this was.

[CheekyTeeky]

I also don't see the point in outting a named townie with this number of players left. We have no PRs gg IC.

[Almost Chara]

Saying yes to the 1-shot or not 1-shot question tells scum who that PR is

Really? So you saying you're not a 1-shot PR tells scum who the PR is?? It could still be YOU. just not 1-shot!!!

Here are the remaining possible combinations of the remaining 2 letters:

CC (1-shot Vig): a Cop in the remaining 4 Townies
CD (1-shot Vig + 1-shot Cop): a Doctor in the remaining 3 Townies
CV (1-shot Cop): a Vig in the remaining 4 Townies
CB (1-shot Vig + 1-shot Cop): a RB in the remaining 3 Townies
DD (1-shot Vig + 1-shot Doc): a Doc in the remaining 3 Townies
DV (no claims): a Doc & a Vig in the remaining 5 Townies
DB (1-shot Vig): a Doc & a RB in the remaining 4 Townies
VV (1-shot Vig): a Vig in the remaining 4 Townies
VB (no claims): a Vig & a RB in the remaining 5 Townies
BB (1-shot RB): a RB in the remaining 4 Townies

Alternatively we have TT for the final 2 letters and we have no more PRs and SCUM ALREADY KNOW IT. (This should result in a 1-shot Vig claim as well)

Tell me what more info do scum gain in each case (assuming 1T, because OBVIOUSLY they gain no more info if it's TTT).

Let me re-format the table above (assuming we are in 1T) and what scum would get from them:

1- No claims: Doc/Vig or Vig/RB in a pool of 5 Townies. So? They are shooting someone anyway!
2- 1-shot Vig: a Cop OR a Vig OR Doc+RB in the remaining 4 Townies!! Which one? Whom to shoot???
3- 1-shot Cop: a Vig in the remaining 4 Townies. So?
4- 1-shot RB: a RB in the remaining 4 Townies...
5- 1-shot Vig + 1-shot Cop: a Doctor OR a RB in the remaining 3 Townies
6- 1-shot Vig + 1-shot Doc: a Doc in the remaining 3 Townies

The worst part is IF Cheeky was a 1-shot Cop/Vig there's NO WAY she would know if there's another 1-shot PR in the setup, and thus won't know if there would be 1 or 2 "VTs outed". If she was a full Doc/Vig/RB there's no way she would know if there will be claims to begin with, and if she's a full Cop the 1-shot Vig claiming doesn't give her away.



Now tell me gain, what does "any given claim" confirm to scum???

[Almost Chara]

I also don't see the point in outting a named townie with this number of players left. We have no PRs gg IC.

And this IS a Scum claim by any and all measures. If we ARE in a TTT setup, Scum knew that all along, so you trying to oppose a mass claim is only holding the info from Town, because Scum knew that already.

And you saying you don't/didn't want to out a named townie is even more absurd. Why not? What's the hard in knowing who HAD a power and already used it? What difference does it make to Scum to now who the Vig "was", and whom they shot (out of the two Mafia didn't kill themselves)?

Everytime you try to wiggle out of the ditch you dug yourself in you dig in even more. My vote is cemented.

[Almost Chara]

Do you retract your call for further claims?

Not at all. but I'll take it that your answer is "not a 1-shot anything", thank you. Furthermore, your distancing maneuver that follows (asking Cheeky if she was an alt) doesn't change a thing.

[Almost Chara]

Guys, here's what I think is happening:

We are in a 1T scenario here, and Cheeky has been trying to deny us the info, because in such a scenario we could have up to 2 1-shot claims, in which case if there's a Vig they'd have a much better probability of hitting scum.

Like, take us out of the pool.. 5T+3S. Now take the potential Vig out (won't be shooting themself), and it's 4Tvs3S. A mislynch on Elmo/cy and we are 3vs3. Now the Vig shot is 50-50. Imagine what that becomes if we have 2 PR claims! Hit rate becomes 75%

Scum would want to see if there's another NK aside from theirs to confirm the existence of a full Vig.

The same applies to a Cop who would obviously be able to target SCUM more accurately if we remove 2 potential targets from their pool. That AND the fact the Cop (if existent) has already investigated someone and probably have a clear on them, and it might result in a Cop identifying the whole Scum team in one go.

There is NO WAY the partial mass claim I suggested would've hurt the Town, and to go on and claim we even have no more living PRs while actively opposing bthe mass claim is utterly ridiculous.

~A50

[davesaz]

After the game I'll expect an apology. You're doing the stupidest shit than an IC can do.

[davesaz]

However, I will say that it does appear to have netted us scum. Sometimes being dead wrong can result in good things, I guess.
VOTE: CheekyTeeky

[CheekyTeeky]

See I thought AC was laying a trap...now I think he's being serious. I don't blame him though my claim was derpy af. AC can you lynch me tomorrow instead so we can get Elmo or cy today please? I messed up, but I'm not scum and we're running out of time.

Pedit oh there it is

[CheekyTeeky]

VOTE: Davesaz coz lol busted.

[CheekyTeeky]

AC get off and help me vote scum :/

[Elmo TeH AzN]

Can we get a vote count

[Almost Chara]

@dave: What convinced you Cheeky was Scum?

@Cheeky: What has dave done (that you didn't do) that made him Scum to you?

@Elmo:

cytheflyguy: (2) Jodaxq, PhGodMyLife,
CheekyTeeky (Voyc): (2) Almost Chara, davesaz,
Elmo TeH AzN: (1) Sleepless Assassin,
Jodaxq: (1) Schism,
davesaz: (1) CheekyTeeky,

Not voting: Elmo TeH AzN, cytheflyguy,

That's unofficial, of course.

~A50