Anything uPick? (Endgame)


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Post Post #6 (isolation #0) » Sat Jan 13, 2018 5:45 am

Post by mastina »

Hi there!
I'm gonna start by saying Firebringer will have even more reason than normal to want to policy-lynch me and this time it won't be unjustifiably so: I have a posting restriction this game.
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Post Post #7 (isolation #1) » Sat Jan 13, 2018 5:45 am

Post by mastina »

What is that posting restriction, you might ask? Well to be honest, it's one that you might not even notice is a posting restriction!
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Post Post #8 (isolation #2) » Sat Jan 13, 2018 5:46 am

Post by mastina »

However, I assure you, it is quite real. My fucking GOD I wouldn't fake this kind of bullshit, I'll do lots of anti-town shit but nothing of THIS nature.
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Post Post #9 (isolation #3) » Sat Jan 13, 2018 5:47 am

Post by mastina »

Basically, my posting restriction?

...I have to post as much as Alisae would in a day.
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Post Post #11 (isolation #4) » Sat Jan 13, 2018 5:47 am

Post by mastina »

(Which today and tomorrow will REALLY suck, given that I'm V/LA, so.)
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Post Post #13 (isolation #5) » Sat Jan 13, 2018 5:49 am

Post by mastina »

In post 11, mastina wrote:(Which today and tomorrow will REALLY suck, given that I'm V/LA, so.)
...For that matter, this will suck the entire game because MY GOD this is not a restriction I want to be bound by, since it requires me to be ridiculously spammy. (Which is why I said you may not even notice a difference, but I assure you, the level of spam I am required to make this game IS in fact higher than the level of spam even someone like me would normally produce.)
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Post Post #14 (isolation #6) » Sat Jan 13, 2018 5:51 am

Post by mastina »

And yes. I could have said all of this in one post except LOL POST RESTRICTED so I need to meet my quota SOMEHOW and the only way I can think of to meet it is to spread it out over multiple posts, so I do apologize in advance.

I'm not a role a vig can shoot (well, they CAN, it'd just be tremendously stupid of them to do so), in spite of the urge to policy lynch this kind of shit for the same reason I can't be vigged I cannot be lynched, so the only way you won't have to put up with this shit the whole game is if either there's a role which can remove the restriction, or if the mafia have mercy and nightkill me.
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Post Post #15 (isolation #7) » Sat Jan 13, 2018 5:54 am

Post by mastina »

(I mean, TECHNICALLY SPEAKING, there is a third option. The violation for not upholding the restriction is me losing my vote--my PM says "two days", but doesn't specify if that's gamedays or 48 hours. The risk of the former is why I don't want to intentionally let myself violate the restriction. There's also the fact that I'm afraid that if I deliberately put absolutely zero effort into so much as trying, that if I am deliberately and consistently breaking my restriction, that being voteless is not enough of a deterrent, that RadiantCowbells will take more executive action, be it force-replace or modkill, so. I don't want to test my luck, as it were. Even though doing so would make the game ten times more bearable and sane for everyone involved, especially myself.)
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Post Post #17 (isolation #8) » Sat Jan 13, 2018 5:56 am

Post by mastina »

Oh and to prove I HAVE a vote which can be forfeited:
VOTE: Firebringer.
So that when he inevitably votes me, he can claim it's OMGUS rather than a policy-lynch. :P
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Post Post #27 (isolation #9) » Sat Jan 13, 2018 6:00 am

Post by mastina »

In post 4, Chickadee wrote:Eh! First post. Sorry if anyone else wanted it.
In post 16, Chickadee wrote:Hmmm, I'm thinking there will be a lot of post recreations this game. Should make things interesting eh? Well, I'm off for a while. I need to eat some breakfast (pancakes and maple syrup) and then I have a day of board games planned.
Ahahahahaha I get it.
At least yours is endearing rather than annoying. :P
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Post Post #32 (isolation #10) » Sat Jan 13, 2018 6:05 am

Post by mastina »

In post 20, Yume wrote:So, chief, who is scum and who is town?
MOST LIKELY, everyone who has posted so far is town, in that Chickadee/you/Gamma/Creature/Firebringer/WhemePlay are all more likely to be town than not, but my confidence level isn't remarkably high on most of these from the first page alone. I typically prefer to make my readslist when we have at least three pages in a Large Theme...and if you exclude my spammy content, we're at a mere fraction of that.

Hopefully, after I shower and take my nap, if there's time before my staff meeting (and if not then by after it I'd be concerned if this hadn't happened since that's over 12 hours from now), I'll be able to give you better reads, from so-town-they're-my-masonbuddy to scum.
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Post Post #36 (isolation #11) » Sat Jan 13, 2018 6:12 am

Post by mastina »

In post 30, WhemePlay wrote:Why even announce it right now if you are vla. You are giving them the chance to f-you.
The specifics of my restriction are such that I'm not afraid of Alisae posting a lot. I'm not going to give the details though, just know that I have to say a shitload per 24 hours, far more than I'd prefer even being the verbose player I am.
In post 33, Chickadee wrote:Sorry, are you saying we should test out the 'cannot be lynched' thing?
I can be lynched! It'd just be TREMENDOUSLY stupid for you to actually do so! Because in spite of the damn annoying post restriction further compacting the natural irate nature of my posting, my role is one which you should never ever want to lynch or even push to claim.

Let's just say that scum have a natural incentive to nightkill me beyond just shutting me up out of annoyance.
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Post Post #40 (isolation #12) » Sat Jan 13, 2018 6:15 am

Post by mastina »

(To be honest tho. It could be much, much worse. I could be forced to speak in spoilered rainbowtext. Not giving me THAT was mercy. :P)
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Post Post #42 (isolation #13) » Sat Jan 13, 2018 6:19 am

Post by mastina »

In post 37, Firebringer wrote:I am a vigilante and if we don’t lynch mastina today, I am shooting her.
Do so and you'll be scumclaiming because fuck subtlety, I am hardclaiming mason.

Yes really.

You're not the only one with RNG gods to thank.

I am dead serious here.

I am a mason. I would prefer not to out my partner but they would vouch for me if I did.
I am not just a mason, either. I am a modified rolecop, and the modification is such that I loverize people I target with my rolecop that meet a specific condition.
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Post Post #45 (isolation #14) » Sat Jan 13, 2018 6:21 am

Post by mastina »

(If you're curious? I'm Alisae as if that wasn't obvious enough. My mason PT is a Marriage to Raybells.)
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Post Post #46 (isolation #15) » Sat Jan 13, 2018 6:21 am

Post by mastina »

In post 44, WhemePlay wrote:Why do we need you making a shit ton of lovers?
Vig them fire.
I misspoke. I didn't mean loverize. I meant loved.
As in, takes one extra vote to lynch.
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Post Post #51 (isolation #16) » Sat Jan 13, 2018 6:26 am

Post by mastina »

So yes.
My full role is a posting-restricted-mason-modified-rolecop-conditional-loved-maker. (The wording is lovederizer, which is why I misspoke and said loverizer even though lovederizer and loverizer are two entirely different roles. But the role is very clear in specifying it's loved-maker, in that I make it take one extra vote to lynch if specific conditions are make and it does not function in lylo.)
With almost that exact name, too, because RC was making a bit of a comment on Alisae's formatting. :P
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Post Post #55 (isolation #17) » Sat Jan 13, 2018 6:29 am

Post by mastina »

In post 45, mastina wrote:(If you're curious? I'm Alisae as if that wasn't obvious enough. My mason PT is a Marriage to Raybells.)
Oh there's one more part of my role I forgot to mention.
Alisae, the PLAYER that is, can to some extent vouch to my flavor. E cannot FULLY vouch for me, but e can at least
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vouch for me; this was explicitly mentioned in my role PM.
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Post Post #63 (isolation #18) » Sat Jan 13, 2018 6:32 am

Post by mastina »

Btw since I've hardclaimed mason, what this means is that when I make a readslist, it will have the caveat that my readslist may or may not deliberately be hiding the position of my masonbuddy--I will try my best to, off of their in-thread posting, judge them where they would be without the explicit knowledge they are town, and place them as close to being there as I can. Probably won't work because I am about as subtle as a brick to the face, but I'll at least TRY.
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Post Post #68 (isolation #19) » Sat Jan 13, 2018 6:36 am

Post by mastina »

(My masonbuddy will be able to confirm their identity without my help, by the way, by simple virtue of paraphrasing the contents of our PT--in particular, there was one thing which happened last night that ONLY my masonbuddy would be able to know about, relating to something I did last night that is not public knowledge but can be confirmed to have happened publicly. In short, they can tell you something I did which is undeniable that I did, but which only they would be able to tell I did because only they would know the nature of what I am talking about.)
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Post Post #79 (isolation #20) » Sat Jan 13, 2018 6:50 am

Post by mastina »

In post 69, Nosferatu wrote:@mastina: exactly how much would alisae post in one day? Like is it a judgement call or what?
Well since I have fullclaimed mason I might as well share this. I've met my quota for the day and strictly speaking don't need to post right now, so I'll probably shut up. But basically, I am forced to use the Juvenile Players Ruleset (AKA Hyperactive Posters but I like my name better): a minimum of ten posts a day.

HOWEVER, posts in my mason PT count towards the ten. I didn't want to hardclaim that the limit was ten in-thread in case I had a day where I split it something like 7-3 and people wondered why I didn't violate the restriction, but since I've claimed mason, there's no reason to hide this anymore, so.

Ten posts per day minimum. Posts in the mason PT count towards that, so I can get away with feasibly as low as one post in this thread, so long as I have the required nine in the masonry.
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Post Post #109 (isolation #21) » Sat Jan 13, 2018 7:31 am

Post by mastina »

In post 80, Nosferatu wrote:so was the post spam in the beginning necessary lol?
If I hadn't claimed?

Yes, it was.

Since I did?

No, the spam was rendered unnecessary by having claimed, but only by virtue of having claimed. Since I wasn't exactly intent on claiming, you could thus say it was necessary at the TIME, but is no longer necessary.
:?: to your ?. That's really self-explanatory? Ten posts a day is a lot for me. Apply it over two weeks and you've got a MINIMUM (rather than maximum) of 140 posts, probably much more, per day. If I live past N1, that's multiplied by D2. And so on and so forth. You also have to keep in mind that was made before I had claimed the masonry. At the time I was under no intention to claim the number of posts, to give me leeway. And were I to have claimed the number without revealing the existence of the masonry PT, then I'd either still have to make the ten posts in here minimum, or risk exposing said masonry.

Soyeah. It was both to cover the masonry's existence, and even without that, is a true statement regardless. (Plus, it's hard to spam in a masonry anyway, so. Most of my posts will be in-thread even with my ability to split, because I simply find it easier to post in-thread rather than in the masonry most of the time.)
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Post Post #125 (isolation #22) » Sat Jan 13, 2018 7:53 am

Post by mastina »

In post 116, Firebringer wrote:
In post 114, Hinduragi wrote:Mastina is town. Chickadee is town. I like nsg so far.
Vote: Whemeplay

I'm probably not going to be able to keep up with this game as much as the rest of you if it's like this but I'm going to do my best.
VOTE: Hinduragi
That was honestly the towniest post in the game so this is a bad vote.
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Post Post #230 (isolation #23) » Sat Jan 13, 2018 9:44 am

Post by mastina »

In post 188, ObsessedFanGrill wrote:
In post 55, mastina wrote:
In post 45, mastina wrote:(If you're curious? I'm Alisae as if that wasn't obvious enough. My mason PT is a Marriage to Raybells.)
Oh there's one more part of my role I forgot to mention.
Alisae, the PLAYER that is, can to some extent vouch to my flavor. E cannot FULLY vouch for me, but e can at least
partially
vouch for me; this was explicitly mentioned in my role PM.
No um, I can vouch for you.
ur C O N F T O W N
It'd make me feel better if you verified how you were given this information. Because I know it was given in a certain way and was mentioned in a specific way; you stating what that way is would help me a lot.
In post 193, Creature wrote:Maybe we can Civilization this.
If by that, you mean most of the active players are town and inactive ones, scum? Then yes. Most likely.
VOTE: Ginngie.
I am having trouble getting reads, admittedly. (Most people look town, not very many look like possible scum.)
But.
I know she was around earlier yet she didn't post here, so.
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Post Post #662 (isolation #24) » Sun Jan 14, 2018 8:14 am

Post by mastina »

First point, phoneposting at work, so more to come.
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Post Post #667 (isolation #25) » Sun Jan 14, 2018 8:16 am

Post by mastina »

Second point, Ginngie is town, so.

UNVOTE: Ginngie.
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Post Post #669 (isolation #26) » Sun Jan 14, 2018 8:17 am

Post by mastina »

Third point, fuck reading all this shit now, I'll do it later.
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Post Post #675 (isolation #27) » Sun Jan 14, 2018 8:22 am

Post by mastina »

Fourth point, I'm considering deliberately being off of every lynch (preferably vanity voting), and then lying after the lynch; if a mislynch, claiming "I told you so!"; if a scum lynch, that I was GONNA vote there, but they were hammered before I could.

:P
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Post Post #684 (isolation #28) » Sun Jan 14, 2018 8:27 am

Post by mastina »

Fourth point, more seriously (Fifth point): I still am having trouble with reads.
This game is the inverse of xyzzy's game, wherein I am town reading everyone.
…Which, mind you, is equally as useless as scumreading everyone.

So I need some time to figure out how to NOT be worthless.
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Post Post #689 (isolation #29) » Sun Jan 14, 2018 8:29 am

Post by mastina »

Sixth point, this having been said, not all townreads are created equal. I'll let you know the hierarchy via a readslist when I am able to.
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Post Post #693 (isolation #30) » Sun Jan 14, 2018 8:32 am

Post by mastina »

Seventh point, when all else fails, realistically speaking, I'm probably sheeping Ginngie. She is town, so I trust her to scumhunt competently.
Ideally. We'd hash things out together, but failing that, I'll just trust her.
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Post Post #697 (isolation #31) » Sun Jan 14, 2018 8:34 am

Post by mastina »

Eighth point, I need to check my mason PT, since it's hard to do on my phone right now. Hopefully my final two posts can be in there, since I plan to not post more in here today.
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Post Post #994 (isolation #32) » Wed Jan 17, 2018 12:42 pm

Post by mastina »

Okay.
Someone tell me I'm not crazy.
That Apathetic Cynic Boy, the person I targeted.
Was in fact a player in this game.
That they were a hydra of Ellibereth and someone else, faking being Alisae and Claire, but later the facade was dropped.
And that Ellibereth even hydra-slipped at one point which was then quoted.

Because the mod is telling me they never existed in his game and there's no iso evidence of them, but I swear to god.



...Also. Hinduragi had fullclaimed in the neighborhood, believe it or not, because he was under the impression he was a 3p. (He thought that if he lynched all the scum, he could win with the town.) He did not know who the scum were, and RadiantCowbells refused to tell him if the scum knew who he was or if not knew at least that they had a traitor. So no. That is NOT a scumflip. He was not in the scum PT, he did not know who the scum were, and they may not of known who he was. And I knew all of this from the get-go.
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Post Post #1001 (isolation #33) » Wed Jan 17, 2018 12:46 pm

Post by mastina »

(Creature was a scumflip tho. I'd say good job, but he's not hard to catch as scum and given the chance to actually fucking read the game, I'd likely have joined the wagon there especially given Ginngie was on there and I said push come to shove I'd sheep her. But since you guys fucking quicklynched, I'll just sit silently in the hasn't-lynched-scum club. :P)
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Post Post #1288 (isolation #34) » Wed Jan 17, 2018 6:08 pm

Post by mastina »

Shit I just remembered that I actually have a posting restriction I need to uphold.
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Post Post #1290 (isolation #35) » Wed Jan 17, 2018 6:08 pm

Post by mastina »

I was PLANNING not to post until I had more time. Not tomorrow, maybe Friday or if not then Saturday.
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Post Post #1291 (isolation #36) » Wed Jan 17, 2018 6:09 pm

Post by mastina »

I am just so behind and out of touch with the game that I haven't wanted to keep posting, since my posting would explicitly be me saying nothing but fluff content because I'm not caught up.
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Post Post #1294 (isolation #37) » Wed Jan 17, 2018 6:11 pm

Post by mastina »

Do you know what page I'm on?

...Neither do I! I was planning to actually start over from page one prior to the quicklynch yesterday.

Some things don't change (Ginngie was town, my neighbor was not groupscum).
But I just got mostly nothing otherwise and need to have the time to actually put time into this game.
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Post Post #1295 (isolation #38) » Wed Jan 17, 2018 6:14 pm

Post by mastina »

...Which, mind you...I don't have right now. I don't have the time to put into this game today.
I don't have the time to put into this game tomorrow (which means you're in for a bunch of spam tomorrow, too).
Even Friday's pushing it in terms of me having the time to give something.

And then there's the fact that you fucks keep on posting.
The more you add, the more I'll have to read. I was behind. I know Hinduragi was behind as well and hadn't read most of the thread last night and he was feeling pretty lost because he was just so behind and was attempting to catch up during the night, but doing so poorly.
That looks like it's continuing today.
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Post Post #1297 (isolation #39) » Wed Jan 17, 2018 6:16 pm

Post by mastina »

Basically if you want me to get content to you sooner, slow the fuck down.
If you're content just waiting for me, though, feel free to keep spamming and make my life all the more harder.
You apparently won't wait for me to find a lynch!
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Post Post #1301 (isolation #40) » Wed Jan 17, 2018 6:18 pm

Post by mastina »

Oh! That being said tho.

VOTE: Torn Up.
Might as well place a vote.
Could maybe also vote Alisae-hydra but would not want to do so without clearing it with the players I respect, e.g. Ginngie.
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Post Post #1305 (isolation #41) » Wed Jan 17, 2018 6:22 pm

Post by mastina »

(Still kinda ticked Firebringer did in fact kill Hinduragi tho. He wasn't scum. He LOOKED like scum, but he wasn't. At least he didn't think so. The way he went about with the neighborhood, I know for an absolute fact he wasn't faking. Maybe he was from a moderator standpoint scum-aligned--but he genuinely thought he was a 3p who could win with the town, and he CERTAINLY didn't know who the scum were, with them likely not knowing him but maybe having some awareness of his existence. I was trying to bait scum by having him traitor-signal, but he never got the chance because YOU LYNCHED BEFORE HE COULD POST and HE GOT LOLBOMBED exactly as we were afraid of.)
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Post Post #1306 (isolation #42) » Wed Jan 17, 2018 6:24 pm

Post by mastina »

(I think that's ten?)
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Post Post #1360 (isolation #43) » Wed Jan 17, 2018 7:25 pm

Post by mastina »

Btw I decided I might as well do this tonight. (I could technically do it tomorrow and spread it out such that it's my content posts, but I'm a bit worried that I'll forget if I don't do it now.)

Basic paraphrase of the Neighborhood PT (all timestamps are rounded btw):
At approximately 10:50 pm, RC created the topic.
At approximately 11:20 pm, I said "Oh hi there".
I made another post, but RadiantCowbells deleted it because I was posting in there before getting my role PM. (The deleted post more or less said, "I don't know if this is a mafia topic, a mason topic, or a lover topic; it kinda sounds like it's not a mafia topic but I guess we'll have to see!", essentially.)
RadiantCowbells then began having a sitechat conversation with me telling me to not post in there yet, but I'll paraphrase that when I paraphrase the post where I paraphrased it.

At approximately 11:50 pm, I made a new second post, now featuring my role PM: a series of posts where I said,
"I hope my restriction doesn't apply in here, but if so...
...FUCK.
But ANYWAY. To let you know.
I have a posting restriction--post ten times a day, or lose my vote.
Oh and my PM mentioned a PT with Raybells--given that's a nickname for RadiantCowbells, I'd like confirmation of your identity and for that matter to know who you are." (The opening post did not mention who was in there and our PMs did not specify a playername.)
"Also, Alisae the player has partial information of my role, knowing I'm familiar but not the details. (Would be hilarious if you're Alisae and legit would laugh out loud if so.)
ANYWAY. I'm treating this PT as a masonry. I don't even know who you are yet, tough luck. I am trusting you.
Given this, I'm going to claim--I'm a conditional loverizer who is also a modified rolecop. *description of the modification/role which I intend to not make public at this time*" (Yes, I typoed my role even in there. I meant lovederizer, but I said loverizer.)

This takes us to approximately midnight, at which time you get me paraphrasing the events which have transpired:
"I came to mafiascum for the theme park, saw RC made a new post, it was him announcing role PMs going out, I noticed I lacked a new PM in my inbox, went to check my PTs to see if I could beat the mod to knowing my role (scum, a scum PT; mason, a mason PT, etc.), did so successfully, was told by RC, "Hey. Don't do that", I point out he left the topic open, he sheepishly admits he thought everyone was asleep, I said it was 11:30 and hashtagged #WestCoastScumBag, then RC tells me to stop being so impatient and wait for a moment". (There's more to this, but I explain it below.)

"Also, it's nice to have an active mod. Got an answer, when I lovederize someone, it only lasts for the day following my investigation." (As in, N1-->D2.)
"Still need to know whether this PT has activity requirements and/or counts towards my limit tho."
"Oh and in case the restriction DOES apply--I've fulfilled it, but I just wanted to say my picks were out of laziness: RC, JaeReed, Alisae, and Ginngie. The latter two for being friends who were /inned for this game."

As we approach 12:10 am, "Got my answer. Posts in here count towards my limit, but I only need to make ten total, so it could be 5-5, 7-3, or vice-versa. So it's possible I'll be more bearable in the main thread, but if so I'll be insufferable in here."
I then listed the playerlist (AND HEY WOULDN'T YA KNOW THERE ARE NINETEEN NOT EIGHTEEN PLAYERS LISTED THERE, INCLUDING A CERTAIN APATHETIC CYNIC BOY), and said "Honestly, looking at this list, I don't know who you are yet but I could work well with just about anyone on this playerlist. Of course, some are more awesomer than others, butstill. Let me know who you are so I know how much fun this will be."

At 12:30, "I am becoming Alisae just by HAVING the role. I'm refreshing every 1-5 minutes, expecting a difference even though I know there won't be one".
At 8:30 am on Saturday January 13th, I noted: "Nobody's posted yet. ;_;"

Immediately following it, at the 18-post mark and near 8:45 am, you get Hinduragi's entrance into the PT.
"Apologies. I'm here. Love your spamposting. On my phone. Love the PT, I just have trouble with my phone. Will contribute when I can, give me a bit to get to a PC."

My reaction?
"SWEET!" This, at about 9 am.

My post 20 is me quoting my 46, wherein I noted, "I misspoke in here as well. You should be able to tell from context though that I did mean lovederizer."

At 9:40, I quoted my post 68, and said that the thing I was talking about was the events I mentioned above--the post I made at about midnight, wherein I was paraphrasing the conversation. I told him that was my confirmation. Moments later, at 10 am, I made a further post clarifying, and to fully explain the events which transpired:
On Friday night, I logged into post in Deathworlders, specifically to cast my Ellibereth vote.
This is the public action I was talking about being easily confirmed as happening publicly
. What's NOT public is what transpired AFTER I made that post, because I happened to catch the note about role PMs having been sent while noticing I distinctly lacked one, so I checked my PTs. I posted, RC told me not to post, we talked a bit about it, including RC going, "You're town by the way" before I got my role PM, and me responding, "That much I got already :P".

Of course, I noted that this was mostly unnecessary, because I was writing this out in case someone counterclaimed being my masonbuddy after my demise, and yet that was both an unlikely scenario to ever happen and also even were they to, it's impossible to fake being mastina so Hinduragi could just paraphrase things in his own way and people would be able to tell that was me. :P

Then, immediately following that, still at 10:00 am, Hinduragi posted something which was REALLY important, the first initial thing he claimed to me. (He later changed his claim.)
"Hey, I think you're awesome, but I need you to trust me. What alignment are you? Town? Scum? 3p? I can win with ANY of them, but I want to win with
you
, so I need you to be forward with your alignment in order to do so. I'd advise against claiming me as your neighbor, since others may know who I am and I don't want them to kill me."
He also confirmed that he was in fact RadiantCowbells.

Thus concludes the first page of our PT.
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Post Post #1369 (isolation #44) » Wed Jan 17, 2018 7:56 pm

Post by mastina »

The second page basically starts out with me quoting Hinduragi's 114 (AKA his only public post) and to him saying he was having issues catching up, commenting that he's geriatric and apologizing for any spam as a result, more or less. In that same post, this being at 10:45 am, I promised him I am town.

At 10:50, I said more or less a longwinded, "I believe you, I trust you, I'll work with you and try to have you win with me. I know you want to win with the town, so I want you to live, for the town to trust you, and comparatively, I am expendable. I'm thinking my main utility here will not be in my role, but in my 'masonry' to you--which I am treating as exactly that because as far as I'm concerned third parties are town--in that if memory serves me, you're pretty competent at scumhunting which means I trust you more than I trust myself, especially for the players I lake a solid base on."

And then, at 11:00 am, Hinduragi did something else unusual. After I had just gone about stating that I held FULL trust in him as he had claimed himself to be, he went and did something which would be incredibly risky--he changed his claim again. Specifically,
"Alright, I'm choosing to fully trust you. FULLY trust you. If you break my heart, I'll be forever sad.

I'm a traitor. I'm riddled with the flu, and I get extra for my visits by lynching my scumbuddies as an incentive. I don't know what my visits do. I think the mafia have a lot of power to balance out my role and all the others claimed so far. I win when town wins or nothing can prevent it. I don't know who the mafia are; I know we are married; I know I have a delayed roleblock (N1->blocked N2), and I want to fully use this PT and we can discuss what to do with my role if/when I get abilities."

At 9:45 PM, I summarized:
"So...basically...you're a mafia traitor except aligned with the town instead of the mafia? Kinda-sorta a traitor-usurper, except for the whole scumteam instead of just a godfather? How much have you asked about mechanically? You don't know them, but do they know you? Or, instead, do they know you exist but not who you are?"

At 10:20, he responded: "As I understand it, yes. It doesn't specify exactly so I'll need to ask; that's why I didn't want to be outed in case they knew my flavor name. And god, 18 extra pages..."

At 10:40, I did some rambling, but the important part is, I suggested traitor-signaling.
At 10:45, Hinduragi responded with amusement (since I had said in the PT, "try 'I do not know who the scum are' or something to that effect, which...I ended up saying publicly out here by complete accident, hilariously enough), and said that he got an answer from RC: his power was a motivate. He also specified that RC could not answer whether they knew him or not.
There were some continued indicators of him struggling to read the game, culminating at 10:50 pm, where he asked,
"Can you summarize the game? Doesn't have to be long, just whatever you can do. It's 2 am and I wake up early tomorrow so I need sleep and thus can't catch up. I AM reading right now, but I'm skimming and am afraid I'll miss something important. Hopefully, tomorrow won't bring 20 new pages. MLK day is a godsend for me."

That's the last pertinent information from the day phase. Come night?
Monday, January 15th, circa 6:20 pm, he said this: "That lynch was indeed not ideal--the speed was just anti-town. Of course, out-of-game, I'm kinda glad it means I won't need to read anything. I think I'm set to be shot. I mean, Fire might be fakeclaiming since his claim feels far less sincere than Yume's. What do you think of WhemePlay's guilty? Why isn't he pushing it harder? If you claim a guilty, I'd expect you to be hard-tunneling the guilty result. But I also feel like the game has been derailed with all the spam and that we can't even sort through the bs. I can honestly see them as being scumbuddies but that doesn't explain why Creature would be bussed into death that fast unless they knew he was crashing and burning.
Any ideas on who to target with the flu?"

And that was it.
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Post Post #1371 (isolation #45) » Wed Jan 17, 2018 8:00 pm

Post by mastina »

...
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Post Post #1373 (isolation #46) » Wed Jan 17, 2018 8:02 pm

Post by mastina »

I don't really have the words except to say "I was wrong".

RC just sent me a message saying that, more or less, "Off of the flip as given, Hinduragi had access to the scum PT".

I don't want to be here anymore.
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Post Post #1458 (isolation #47) » Thu Jan 18, 2018 10:58 am

Post by mastina »

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Post Post #1459 (isolation #48) » Thu Jan 18, 2018 10:58 am

Post by mastina »

Spoiler:
On pins and needles we are waiting for the fall
We count the days scratching lines on the wall
Wait in the wings at someone's back and call
No longer recognize the place that I call home
No longer recognize this face as my own
Somewhere this fate, I lost control
We backed down, we took no for answers far too long
We felt those walls close around
I don't want to be here anymore
I know there's nothing left worth staying for
Your paradise is something I've endured, whoa whoa
See I don't think I can fight this anymore
I'm listening with one foot out the door
And something has to die to be reborn
And I don't want to be here anymore
On hand and foot we answered every single call
Weathered every day like passing storms
But when we break we will all be gone
Won't back down, won't take no for answers anymore
These walls close, we pace back and forth
I don't want to be here anymore
I know there's nothing left worth staying for
Your paradise is something I've endured, whoa whoa
See I don't think I can fight this anymore
I'm listening with one foot out the door
But something has to die to be reborn
I don't want to be here anymore
The point where we break is closer everyday
But where do we go? But where do we go?
I don't want to be here anymore
I know there's nothing left worth staying for
Your paradise is something I've endured, whoa whoa
See I don't think I can fight this anymore,
I'm listening with one foot out the door
But something has to die to be reborn
And I don't want to be here anymore
Anymore
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Post Post #1461 (isolation #49) » Thu Jan 18, 2018 11:04 am

Post by mastina »

Btw song is a pretty apt description in many ways albeit some less and some more. Disassociating hard, no control, not wanting to be here today but needing to thanks to the damned restriction, the main way I could have contributed to the game was taken out (more on that in a post I'll be making below), I've no will to fight at the moment (it'll come later I'm sure I just don't have it RIGHT NOW), I have one foot in the door rather than one foot out in that I'm more out than in (also, I'm not listening because listening = reading and rather explicitly I've read nothing since the earliest stages of the game, I will but not until Friday at earliest), a little bit broken already and easily more so, not sure where to go atm but right now still don't want it to be here.

I'll get better, later. Just not today, as in, this Thursday. (I'm sure that I'll get better this day PHASE, assuming we actually have a proper fucking day phase.)
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Post Post #1462 (isolation #50) » Thu Jan 18, 2018 11:15 am

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I still don't understand why Hinduragi did what he did and I don't think I can. It just makes no sense to me on any level. PRIOR TO HIM HAVING EVEN POSTED, I said that I had full trust in him. (More on that in a post below.) He could have just claimed delayed roleblocker, who upon the lynch of a scum player would become motivated, and just lied and omitted the parts about him being scum. That is actually a really fucking awesome role and a ridiculously plausible claim! A role rewarding competent townplay, in that by lynching scum you can get an upgrade to your role. I'd have bought that instantly.

Instead, he decided to claim 3p to me, and asked about my alignment which I don't understand. If he knew who the scumteam was, why would he have asked that in that way with him going to claim 3p? It just makes no sense for him to have done at all.

...Even IF you can explain that (I can't in spite of knowing that's apparently exactly what happened)...then there's still no explanation for what followed. After his initial claim, I said I fully trusted him and wanted him to win. He could have committed to that claim as it was. He could have stuck to his initial 3p claim, and not changed it at all, because I said I trusted him and would go so far as protecting him, so there was zero need to change it and doing so would in fact risk me changing my stance.

...Yet he did so ANYWAY. He changed his claim to something arguably even less believable. I'd have bought his role as town. Him being 3p as claimed was believable enough albeit not as believable as him as town. But then he claimed something even more elaborate. He claimed something ridiculously complex. He didn't so much "change the details" as much as "completely reclaim with a different role altogether". I still don't have an explanation for that, and I just don't understand why he'd go with that route when it's ridiculously complicated compared to just a simpler, "I'm town" he could have done. He didn't need to do more.

But all the same, he did do the more, while apparently knowing who the scum were. His actions make sense to me if he didn't know the scum. Claiming what he did to test if I were scum and then claiming the role he did when he thought I wasn't scum made sense if he had no clue who they were, but apparently he did. And I just don't understand it, given that.

That being said, I will be able to move on. It's a mystery we'll have to wait until postgame to see, though I'll see it much sooner I suppose once I die. (More on that in a post below.)
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Post Post #1463 (isolation #51) » Thu Jan 18, 2018 11:27 am

Post by mastina »

But ANYWAY. It should be pretty damn apparent I'm town--useless town, yes. Deadweight town, sure. Given this fucking posting restriction and me being behind on the game so me not being able to even give game-relevant content/spam at the moment ridiculously anti-town town, undoubtedly, yeah.

But still undeniably town.

Which means scum can't afford to let me live forever. Not when they're two scum down. How many scum could a 19-player game, realistically speaking, have? Six would be a shitload. Even five is pushing it (albeit plausible given semi-traitor who was apparently scum proper).

And they're down TWO of those starting scum.

So mathematically speaking, they cannot afford to keep me alive. Even anti-town conftown can't be kept around until lylo, especially if they lose another member or two along the way. (Also I get stronger when I've got more information on hand to analyze and am more "grounded" in the game, as it were, so it'd only be a matter of time--get enough spamposters to die off, and the pace of the game will slow to a reasonable enough level wherein I am capable of keeping up and contributing.)

7p lylo with a conftown is dangerous to them. Not INHERENTLY necessarily disastrous if they count on town voting town, but still a big risk.
5p lylo with a conftown, doubly so.
Heaven forbid 3p lylo with a conftown.

What I'm saying is, they have to kill me at some point.

It won't be immediately. GOD no. They've got bigger fish to fry, far larger threats than what I am. They'll want to avoid it for as long as humanly possible, because an anti-town player alive is better than an anti-town player dead to them.

However, at some point, they will do so, because EVENTUALLY, there is a tipping point in the scale where antitown conftown alive < no conftown alive.

...Still, though. I can maybe encourage it to happen a bit sooner than it would be otherwise with this:
Protective roles and any Watcher we may have: Absolutely do not target me.
(I mean. As if they would anyway. But I'm telling them not to.)
I'll leave myself wide open for scum to kill should they choose to. No need to waste a strongman or a ninja, even. My role has no kill immunity (I've already claimed all there is to my role more or less, except the modification of the rolecop and the condition for lovederizing someone), so this is no trap I'm laying. I do love me some plans, but I have none at the moment, not really, which is why I'm giving the invitation. My plan died with Hinduragi (more on that below in a future post).
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Post Post #1469 (isolation #52) » Thu Jan 18, 2018 11:40 am

Post by mastina »

To explain what I mean about my main way of contributing no longer being around, it's simple.
Even with Hinduragi as scum who knew his scumbuddies, him being dead when he was dead was him being dead too soon especially given the rapid nature of the D1 Creature lynch.

Yeah
, dead scum is better than no dead scum.

But what I'm saying more or less is that he was dead scum
too soon
.
He made one fucking post in-thread.
One.
Just the one public post.

He didn't give anything reads-wise in the PT, not really, because he hadn't read the game. (I see no reason to doubt that as having been the case, because there's no incentive to lie about it as scum. If you haven't read the game, it will be really fucking obvious you haven't read the game; if you HAVE read the game, then it's much harder to fake having not done so and it gives you little in terms of gain. But even were you scumbag enough to doubt his claim, it's irrelevant to the point because even if he lied and HAD read the game, he CLAIMED he hadn't, he was ON RECORD as having not done so, and thus his posts were under the visage of having not done so if nothing else--meaning, for all intents and purposes, he hadn't read the game even if he had, because what matters is his stated stance. He would not be able to get away forever with the stance of "I haven't read the game", and that's what I'm getting at.)

What I'm saying here is that he should have been given the opportunity to feed us more information. We had, what? Less than 24 hours of game content? Certainly less than 48 hours. We didn't need to draw things out until deadline, sure, but we should have spent at least one fucking week on D1. This would have meant that Hinduragi would have posted vital content in the game thread, rather than one fucking post, allowing us to have more information with his flip.

FURTHERMORE, this would add weight to the neighborhood PT interactions. Hinduragi gave me nothing, but with one week's time worth of content, he'd have had no choice BUT to give me things. If he believed he had me thoroughly pocketed--and given my posts in relationship to him plus my reputation (although, there's a caveat to that which I'll talk about in a future post), he had no reason to think I wasn't--then he could attempt to manipulate my stances and guide me. But he had no chance to do so, none whatsoever, because the day ended and he was set to die that night. (And he knew it was distinctly possible, too. Knowing you are likely to die gives you good reason to not interact freely with someone not aligned with you, for fear of your death revealing info.)

We needed more time. With that time, the neighborhood would have meant something, because Hinduragi's posts in there could be used to help me maybe discern the alignments of other individuals off of his stated positions. He would have said positions, too, given one week. But given 24-48 hours, he didn't have those positions. Thus, any information I COULD have gained from having a neighborhood with scum was wasted.
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Post Post #1474 (isolation #53) » Thu Jan 18, 2018 12:16 pm

Post by mastina »

Btw, it's at this point I should go into detail about my philosophy on the mason claim. Contrary to popular belief, my stance is not, "Oh, neighborhood? I'll call it a masonry". I do however let people think so, because that is convenient for me both as a scumhunter and in the case where I legitimately draw mason (which I do surprisingly often) and people roll their eyes and think I'm doing my normal gambit (except...LOL MASTINA WAS ACTUALLY A MASON).

I start off by stating I will treat the neighborhood as if it were a masonry. This is true enough, but most people think the mason gambit ends right there--it doesn't. There are many reasons why I take the belief I do about treating neighborhoods as if they are masonries, and it has to do with my rich history with the role and how I react. For a start, to understand this, you have to know that I've been the role disproportionately often. I've played by now 300 full, proper games on mafiascum. (I lost track of the exact number long ago.) I don't mean including-Marathons. I don't mean "total games even off of mafiascum". I don't even count the blitz games on the fallout shelter.

I mean, 300 full-length, weeks-long day phases, well and true, proper games, here on this site, mafiascum.net.

...Of those? In the upwards of 40 or 50 games, I've been either a mason or a neighbor or an -izer of those roles. (It's still impossible to get an exact count, but I can get a more precise estimate in a bit, after I've done my spiel, because I still have a post quota to make and getting the exact numbers will be helpful for you to understand what I'm getting at here.)

The VAST majority of the time, this has worked out.

In all of those games. INCLUDING THIS GAME. There has been a grand total of three times where said "masonry" contained scum...and two of them were
all-neighborhood games
. (As in, EVERY player was in a neighborhood, with there being at least four distinct neighborhoods.)
I exclude from this Green Day UPick, wherein my hydra was a scum reflexive-loverizer and a neighborizer targeted us N1, because both of us had claimed our respective roles D1 and thus we were publicly known to be not-masons from the get-go.

Even those games where the said masonry had scum featured extenuating circumstances.

In SMITE Mafia, Drixx's slot had claimed 3p. The 3p wincon claimed was something which, with how the game was turning out and our particular roles, was reasonably easy to coordinate circumstances by which we could trigger that wincon--had Drixx been given the opportunity to use his claimed role yet didn't, I was all too happy to lynch him as a scumfuck. So the whole time, the idea was that we would orchestrate a scenario where he had no choice but to prove his 3pness, and if he didn't, I'd readily lynch him. But since his claim WAS something that should have theoretically been easy enough to have tested, I did in fact trust him to be essentially-town. (I am the poster child for trusting third party because I fucking HATE with a passion the ideology of "claimed 3p dies". Like, I refuse to lynch serial killers if they allow themselves to be leashed, trust in 3p claims.)

In Biochemistry, I was a replacement and the idea of a masonry was already impossible from the get-go. I did suggest treating each other as town for one day phase, even entrusting Ginngie with my invention in spite of my read on her tanking, but this was both laughed at, AND was for the strategic reasons I'll mention below. As far as Spiffeh, the second scum goes, there were circumstances surrounding the N2 night actions which gave huge credence to the idea he'd be town, AND he claimed tracker-inventor when there were only two scum left alive...AKA, "lynch one more scum, and tracker becomes cop". Which made him be someone I needed to exploit their role out of, since we could clear town players by coordinating jailkeep + invent tracks and so on and so forth and if scum no-killed, great for us, free lynch. So I had role-related reasons OUTSIDE OF IT BEING A NEIGHBORHOOD to protect him, even though I didn't
trust
him per se.

In both situations, it was known we were not masons, and it was known that everyone had a neighborhood and the situations surrounding the claims were such that I was giving people TIMED passes. Not indefinite ones. My belief is that role != alignment. Play > role. HOWEVER.
When you can afford to
, you still utilize claimed roles even if the person claiming the role could be scum. And in both situations, at the time I died in those games, we could AFFORD to utilize the claimed roles, and my play protecting the scum was me protecting the roles because we could use those roles and were in situations where it was ideal to do so.

...So of all of my games wherein I have done the mason approach. Only the smallest fraction have had it backfire on me. We're talking, less than 10%. And that 10% being questionable given the specifics therein. So it is an approach which, by and large, statistically speaking, has worked out well for me. Trusting my neighborhood to be town is something which has disproportionately been a good decision of mine in that it was a correct read to have done so in almost every situation.

Statistically speaking, neighbors are more likely to be town than scum, so it makes sense to treat them as town.

This is compounded by a taboo around scum neighbors--they are weighed as a strong PR for scumteams as far as the NRG is concerned (by the way, RadiantCowbells is a member of said NRG), and yet town neighbors are considered net-neutral for balance, contributing nothing, neither strengthening nor weakening the town. So a scum neighbor is +EV for the scumteam; an all-town neighborhood is net-neutral. As a result, moderators tip the scale even further towards neighborhoods being primarily town, and this is a self-feeding loop of sorts--the more neighborhoods are all-town, the more powerful a scum neighbor is; the more powerful a scum neighbor is, the more taboo it is for a scum neighbor to exist; the more taboo it is for a scum neighbor to exist, the more neighborhoods are all town.

There's more behind my actions than the numbers, though.

My belief has always been that in a neighborhood, it is RIDICULOUSLY easy to get the read of your neighborhood mates wrong. It is simpler to read them as being town and bank on the probability of numbers to be right, because this way, you don't get to deal with the paranoia of whether the person in the 'hood is manipulating you.

That having been said
.

And this is the heart of the matter, and what I was getting at before.
Just because I expect to get the read wrong does not mean I don't try altogether. In fact, I exploit it. I tell a lie of sorts, in that I say I will treat them as town...but in actuality, I evaluate them just as any player, no different than any other, just with the extra information the neighborhood provides. The hope being that with me having stated to them that I am treating them as town, I can get a more genuine, absolute read on the slot which is accurate.

...And in the case wherein I do land with a scum neighbor. That when they flip as being such. I have the entire PT's worth of information to work off of, knowing they were trying to exploit my generosity. Knowing they were trying to manipulate me and them believing it would never backfire. Thinking they had me pocketed with impunity. Thinking that I was never going to call them scum, they would be free to share revealing reads, giving insight into their scumteam composition.

In other words...
I tell a lie and say I'm treating them like town, in order to lure them into a false sense of security
, and divulge information they would never otherwise have shared with me. (This is what I was attempting to do with Ginngie in Biochemistry, but the town fucking lynched her before I could and thus why I was so ticked off.)

But with how this game worked out, that wasn't fucking possible.

I do not blindly go in and say, "Oh neighborhood? Let's make it a masonry!"
There is extensive thought put in each and every time I make the gambit. It is meticulously planned out, such that I always try to leverage things to the advantage of the town. But I was unable to do that this game.
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Post Post #1477 (isolation #54) » Thu Jan 18, 2018 12:27 pm

Post by mastina »

Bleh. I had more to say which I thought up in advance during work. I'm sure of it. Not MUCH more to say, one or two extra posts, but I can't remember what it was. :?
Including this one, I'm two post short of the limit. I wish I could remember what I had thought of to ramble about, but I can't.
Well actually, I say ramble but some of it might have been vaguely kinda sorta game content, albeit when I say "kinda sorta game content", I mean in the same way as telling protectives/watchers to be off of me, and explaining the mason gambit, way, in that it is technically maybe vaguely useful, but not really in that it doesn't have any pragmatic value even though it has a theoretical one.
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Post Post #1479 (isolation #55) » Thu Jan 18, 2018 12:31 pm

Post by mastina »

(It might've had to do with Hinduragi? I feel like there was an additional point I'm not making but I was going to make about him. Something trivial and thus probably worthless but which I wanted to share just in case. Or it coulda been me further explaining the circumstances behind my life, like going into detail about how I read games in that I read content chronologically and when I say I haven't read the game I
REALLY
mean I haven't read the game. Or it could have been something completely different. I just don't know. :?)
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Post Post #1480 (isolation #56) » Thu Jan 18, 2018 12:34 pm

Post by mastina »

(I guess my tenth post since I lack better ideas is just me publicly asking what I was going to privately ask, if:
Do not leak information about the game. If you're dead, you do not communicate with anyone about the game, including other dead people. Inform me of any breaches that happen. There will be no warnings if this rule is violated.
...This applies such that I cannot say so much as a single word about this game to my girlfriend in spite of Jae quite obviously not being a player in it and them having hinted to me that they are in fact reading it.)
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Post Post #1625 (isolation #57) » Fri Jan 19, 2018 11:53 pm

Post by mastina »

Alright, finally here. Catching up now. <3
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Post Post #1628 (isolation #58) » Sat Jan 20, 2018 12:09 am

Post by mastina »

In post 234, ObsessedFanGrill wrote:
In post 264, mastina wrote:It'd make me feel better if you verified how you were given this information. Because I know it was given in a certain way and was mentioned in a specific way; you stating what that way is would help me a lot.
Subject: 16P Setup Thread
RadiantCowbells wrote:Wait what (Body Double): Alisae and any players that replace him will be informed that you are very, very familiar.
Can confirm this is what my role PM specified. Including the "wait what".
In post 230, mastina wrote:I am having trouble getting reads, admittedly. (Most people look town, not very many look like possible scum.)
This is still true as I reach this point on my reread.
In post 246, ObsessedFanGrill wrote:Bae
ur the type of player to fake that bullshit.
No, she isn't. Ginngie follows the mastina school of scumplay: the best lie is the truth. Were she scum, she was telling the truth.

Also first ten pages as they currently are, and this is the readslist of players having posted by that point.


Yume
WhemePlay
Chickadee
Gamma Emerald
northsidegal
Mathdino
Nosferatu
Smocaine
ObsessedFanGrill
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Post Post #1645 (isolation #59) » Sat Jan 20, 2018 12:31 am

Post by mastina »

In post 259, Mathdino wrote:If she can't, mastina's definitely capable of making that up.
Nope! Best lie's the truth. I don't fakeclaim shit as scum. The only time I tell a lie about my role is as town...and even then, I only tell lies with purpose, e.g. Bulletproof<->Macho switch, Neighbor(izer)-->Mason(izer). When I tell a lie, it is a lie which when the lie is revealed, the reasons behind telling the lie are self-evident.
I read somewhere that every time mastina is in a neighbourhood with someone she goes and says "LET'S JUST ACT LIKE WE'RE MASONS FOREVER". I thus have no reason to at-first-glance trust mason claims from mastina ever tbh. That said, if one of the people in that hood is scum, I think they'll be able to work that out, especially if mastina is an investigative.
I already explained this btw but to reiterate: this is accurate, in that I SAY "Let's be masons forever"...but I do so AS A GAMBIT and am truthfully putting effort into reading them each and every time I draw the role.

I just happened to have apparently horribly misjudged Hinduragi because I believed his claim which I still say makes no sense. (I still don't get why he, if he knew he was groupscum, just didn't claim he was town. No need for elaborate 3p bullshit, just play it straight.)
@mastina
: Why spam the early game at all then? Funsies? Demonstration?
Because I wasn't intent on fucking claiming my 'masonry' D1. I never am, contrary to my reputation. The risk of Firebringer vigging me was real enough (in spite of me knowing he likes to fakeclaim, there was a legit risk he was real...which, sure enough...) that I thought it necessary, but the PLAN was for me to not out that I had a private PT and that posts within said private PT counted towards the limit--as a result, I was going to be forced to post potentially ten times a day. HOWEVER, I was also intent on not claiming the number of posts I needed to make.

You keep on using modern information and ignoring the situation as it was at the time.
By the modern information what I did was unnecessary, yes. But by the situation as it was at the time, I didn't want to claim the number of posts, so I could get away with, say, a 7-3 split. If I was forced to claim the limit was 10, however, I still wanted to meet those activity requirements, meaning I needed at least ten posts to start with because I was under no intention to claim the limit but I thought that IF I did need to claim the limit I was under no intention to reveal the existence of the 'masonry' by virtue of having not done so on a day where it was split.

I'm really not sure how to explain that more clearly if you don't fucking get it. It's really fucking self-explanatory and I've said all of this shit already before.
In post 261, northsidegal wrote:mastina, why are you townreading most of the active players?
Well because I am bluntly right to have done so. To whit?
Creature, D1 scum lynch, was a lurker compared to everyone else posting-wise.
Hinduragi, N1 suicide-vig, had a single game post. He wasn't "lurking", per se (lurking implies deliberate lack of activity), but it is a fact to say he was among the less active players.

This is information I have in hindsight, sure, yeah. This is information I did not possess at the time--however. This is what I SUSPECTED to be the case. Not specifically Creature or Hinduragi, mind you. However, the general idea there was that my thoughts were that most of the active players were town; most of the scum would be in the inactive players. I still feel this to be the case. It was true of Civilization Mafia, too, which had a comparable D1 posting rate to this game (the difference being they didn't lynch in less than 48 hours, but had we gotten a day phase as long as Civ's, we'd have had as many pages AS Civilization).

I believed most of the players posting to be town because I thought most of them were town with their posting.
I believed most of the scum were in the inactive players because I thought the inactive players would be where scum were.
I didn't have elaborate reasoning beyond that nor did I need it, since my sentiment I still hold to be true.
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Post Post #1650 (isolation #60) » Sat Jan 20, 2018 12:41 am

Post by mastina »

In post 266, Mathdino wrote:Do you think scum lovederizer rolecop would ever be a thing?
Explicitly so yes especially since I know from a typo in my role PM that my role was originally meant to be a hatedizer which was at some point in the design process changed to a lovederizer, RC just missed a spot when he changed the role PM. (If I had to guess, I'd say that instead of "when the condition is met, loved", it was "when the condition is not met, hated". But since this is speculating about what is assured to be a past iteration of the role, i.e. a nonexistent role that doesn't actually exist in this game, it's largely irrelevant which is why I didn't mention it before.)

Role != alignment. And play > role.
In post 272, northsidegal wrote:what's to say she couldn't make her scumbuddies loved? granted, i'm not sure how balanced that would be.
Fun fact: the name of the ability is lolbalance.
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Post Post #1651 (isolation #61) » Sat Jan 20, 2018 12:48 am

Post by mastina »

In post 277, northsidegal wrote:there's nothing to suggest mastina is telling the truth about anything, yet.
Sure, except a long-standing meta of me not lying as scum spanning literally all my fucking scumgames across my entire 300+ game mafiascum career.

You know, the sort of thing which sure technically I could break at any point if I deemed it advantageous to do so but yet which I never do because my experience has been that my philosophy of "the best lie is the truth" has been the most advantageous for me every single time.
In post 295, Torn Up wrote:read up to page 4: fire, mastina and yume town. I'll read up eventually
also lolgamma
:igmeou:
This sounds familiar.
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Post Post #1652 (isolation #62) » Sat Jan 20, 2018 12:53 am

Post by mastina »

In post 300, ObsessedFanGrill wrote:
@mastina
- Read up to this point and talk to me about Gamma please <3
Meh.

That's my thoughts there.

Shrugs.

Could be scum could be town.

Also could very very very very very very VERY easily wagon Nosferatu, so.
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Post Post #1653 (isolation #63) » Sat Jan 20, 2018 1:01 am

Post by mastina »

In post 353, Torn Up wrote:
In post 250, Gamma Emerald wrote:UNVOTE: WhemePlay
Not sure if anyone around currently is worth voting for
also how tf did I miss Ginngie in that list of common players
'not sure if anyone around currently is worth voting for'
I'll take thoughts villagers never have for 300
-tor
Given my sentiments at the time were identical?

Tough luck, it's thoughts villagers can and have had because I am town and I had that thought.
In post 360, Torn Up wrote:she is not though. she is just calling it bullshit because it sounds like bullshit. I don't see OFG casing you or explaining how your claim makes you >rand to be scum.
Still like my vote here tho for what it's worth.
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Post Post #1654 (isolation #64) » Sat Jan 20, 2018 1:05 am

Post by mastina »

In post 383, Torn Up wrote:I'm assuming OFG is maki and if I'm right she is very villagery in this game
Which is a scumtell for her. :shifty:
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Post Post #1657 (isolation #65) » Sat Jan 20, 2018 1:12 am

Post by mastina »

In post 443, Espeonage wrote:Mastina would totally fakeclaim that post restriction btw.
Except, no I fucking wouldn't?

Did it once, have no need to fake a damn restriction again.

I don't know how I got a reputation for faking shit.
When the simple fact is.
I don't fucking fake shit.
Except when I do, but those are cases where it is clear and unambiguous what I was doing with the faking. The exceptions which prove the rule of me not fucking faking shit.
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Post Post #1659 (isolation #66) » Sat Jan 20, 2018 1:18 am

Post by mastina »

In post 452, Espeonage wrote:Bit hypocritical math
Indeed it is. Math has solidly been not-a-townread in case you haven't noticed.
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Post Post #1660 (isolation #67) » Sat Jan 20, 2018 1:22 am

Post by mastina »

In post 501, ObsessedFanGrill wrote:But I want mastina to talk to me about Gamma, because I could easily wrong here.
I don't see why given I basically lack Gamma experience though my inclination is still more town than scum.
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Post Post #1661 (isolation #68) » Sat Jan 20, 2018 1:25 am

Post by mastina »

In post 543, Torn Up wrote:
No idea what the Creature wagon is about but it feels like a policy/unexplained meta lynch to me, which I'm not into at all this early. I felt like the weird Firebringer vs NSG battle over essentially "paranoia" was TvT more than anything.


Firebringer started off super scummy but then like became obv. town through that push (I've only played one game with scumfire which was blatant active lurking) I don't know what I make of them claiming vig then not - possible SK to look at later on?

NSG seems quite scummy but it does look like she gets frozen as scum so the back and forth real time kind of destroys her scum meta here. Also taking into account she only has 3 completed games makes it unlikely that she has turned up her confidence that much as scum. I would like to hear more from her.

Did the NSG wagon disband for any particular reason? It seems like I'm missing the point where it pivots onto creature.

Yume if you're a real vig, is it a day vig? and if so I like Dino's idea of using it on Creature so we can lynch stronger scum reads unless it ends the day.

Espeonage who do you scum read at this point?

What do people make of the Mali hydra vs Belli hydra?

~ C
Hellooooooooooo scum.
Which would make NSG pretty town btw.
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Post Post #1664 (isolation #69) » Sat Jan 20, 2018 1:28 am

Post by mastina »

In post 555, Espeonage wrote:
In post 637, ObsessedFanGrill wrote:VOTE: Torn up
The fact you're trying to implicate we're in a 1v1 along with saying no reasoning or anything helpful for that matter makes that post really shit. Saying they're not a sr is avoiding to step on toes.
Now that's a real bad vote.
OMGUS if I ever saw it.
Actually it's one of the main reasons I'd buy OFG being town. Torn Up's posting is
abysmal
. Both heads, really, but ESPECIALLY the CheekyTeeky head who I've come to expect better of than what I've seen.
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Post Post #1668 (isolation #70) » Sat Jan 20, 2018 1:36 am

Post by mastina »

In post 604, northsidegal wrote:
In post 628, Torn Up wrote:No idea what the Creature wagon is about but it feels like a policy/unexplained meta lynch to me, which I'm not into at all this early.
Yume if you're a real vig, is it a day vig? and if so I like Dino's idea of using it on Creature so we can lynch stronger scum reads unless it ends the day.
cheeky, if you're uncomfortable with the creature wagon why would you want him to be vigged?
A good question indeed.
ofg seems like scum from the interaction with espeonage, who seems like town.
Esp as town yes and OFG as scum possible, but I wouldn't bank on it.
also, creature is obvscum.
VOTE: creature
While he was, I still question why you voted him when the rest of your post seemed to indicate a Torn Up vote was where you were headed.

That being said,
In post 606, Creature wrote:Okay, I retract my northsidegal townread.
I actually buy NSG as town from this. Yes, not hard to fake. No, I don't think it was faked. Call it tone, call it gut, call it whatever, I don't think it was scum theater.
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Post Post #1669 (isolation #71) » Sat Jan 20, 2018 1:38 am

Post by mastina »

Meant to give an updated readslist.
Yume
Espeonage
northsidegal
WhemePlay
Chickadee
Gamma Emerald
ObsessedFanGrill
Smocaine
Mathdino
Nosferatu
Torn Up

As of the bottom of 25.
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Post Post #1670 (isolation #72) » Sat Jan 20, 2018 1:45 am

Post by mastina »

In post 691, Smocaine wrote:Why aren't you spamming your mason pt btw?
In post 697, mastina wrote:Eighth point, I need to check my mason PT, since it's hard to do on my phone right now. Hopefully my final two posts can be in there, since I plan to not post more in here today.
^
In post 666, ObsessedFanGrill wrote:Also I have a good idea who your mason buddy is so you better trust me.
Oh right you probably thought my 'masonbuddy' was Gamma.
I saw Gamma's posts early on and my more or less positive treatment of Gamma and realized he'd probably be interpreted as being that, which I was okay with because frankly I wanted him to take a bullet for the 'masonry'.

In that sense, I thought him more likely to be town than not though did note it was possible he was scum white knighting in a sense.
In post 696, ObsessedFanGrill wrote:
In post 809, mastina wrote:Seventh point, when all else fails, realistically speaking, I'm probably sheeping Ginngie. She is town, so I trust her to scumhunt competently.
Ideally. We'd hash things out together, but failing that, I'll just trust her.
Wait you don't trust me to scumhunt competently feelsbadman :(
I trust you to be a competent scumhunter.
I am somewhat hesitant to trust you to actually be scumhunting, by which, I mean, be town.
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Post Post #1671 (isolation #73) » Sat Jan 20, 2018 1:53 am

Post by mastina »

In post 718, Firebringer wrote:The last like five games with town!mastina I’ve played wshe tunnels town and defended scum
For what it's worth I know for a fact this is not the case because Aristophanes's Yume's Cutsie UPick was within his last five games with me and there I never defended scum and was mostly right on my scumreads. Aside from Alisae, which from that game is why I have stated I lack the ability to read em.
In post 766, northsidegal wrote:are you saying that you're finding too many people scummy in this game?
The opposite, not enough. At the time at least.
In post 760, Espeonage wrote:@mastina: homework: go reread communication, then reread every game I played with scum reck and scum fate, then come in here and tell me why you aren't voting ofg ty.
It is important to me that you remember to trust my reads after I die.
A combination of me not being sure of them being scum, me knowing I can't read them, them making some good points I happen to agree with, and interactions not meshing as scumbuddies with others who I am scumreading.
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Post Post #1672 (isolation #74) » Sat Jan 20, 2018 2:00 am

Post by mastina »

In post 801, WhemePlay wrote:
In post 923, ObsessedFanGrill wrote:Honestly
the scumteam is probably just Nos, Hinduragi, Espeonage, and Creature
WRONG MORTAL!
It's probably 3/5 tho, because Nos is still probably scum. There's nothing town about Nosferatu.
In post 843, Firebringer wrote:Shut the fuck up dino and replace out if all ur going to do is complain
I mean.
He's probably scum with that, so.
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Post Post #1673 (isolation #75) » Sat Jan 20, 2018 2:01 am

Post by mastina »

In post 850, Mathdino wrote:
can we get more votes on firebringer
say what you will about creaturescum, he's not actively hurting the game
let the vigs get him

Edit: fuck you ACB
*cough*
>More votes on Firebringer (town), rather than Creature (scum)
>Says to leave Creature for the vigs.
>Firebringer was a claimed vig.
>Still wanted votes to go from Creature to Firebringer.
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Post Post #1676 (isolation #76) » Sat Jan 20, 2018 2:06 am

Post by mastina »

In post 876, Ginngie wrote:
In post 967, ObsessedFanGrill wrote:no Flat Earth is Chesskid and Kagami
they probably have a role related reason as to why they can't post today.
Weird
You don’t have them as scum?
This is indeed strange given OCG's stated stance of believing RC has no creativity, that he was reusing roles, and rather specifically,
that there was a scum role incapable of posting until D2
. That did in fact catch my eye so thanks for reminding me.

Whichever heads were posting (but I believe it was Alisae for both statements), care to explain the dissonance? You stated you thought RC could and would reuse that type of role as a scum role...and yet when saying you believed Flat Earth Society had that role...you didn't scumread them for it.
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Post Post #1684 (isolation #77) » Sat Jan 20, 2018 2:17 am

Post by mastina »

In post 878, Smocaine wrote:Mastina only has 32 posts. OFG, if any post restriction this game is fake, it's that one.
The game was open for less than 48 hours. Do the math. (Less than) Two days, 32 posts, restriction of needing ten a day.

This is not a fucking posting restriction I'd fake.
Posting restrictions I fake LIMIT my ability to post.
They don't require me to fucking post more.
I have faked being able to only vote before--it was a posting restriction I always wanted to have (because I wanted to be clever about how to get around it), and I finally got a chance as a lyncher to pull it off.
I faked being able to post only in rhymes--it was a posting restriction I always wanted to have, because it is something right up my alley.
But since mods aren't likely to give me posting restrictions I would want, I need to make them up.

And being a spammy fuck is the absolute last fucking thing I'd fake because I fucking love just sitting back and lurking my ass off which is impossible with this fucking restriction. No seriously regardless of my alignment I like to lurk my ass off and not post for half the week. This fucking restriction disables me from doing that.
In post 881, WhemePlay wrote:mastina also on VLa I think
I am indeed V/LA on weekends which is shitty because THIS FUCKING POSTING RESTRICTION REQUIRES ME TO FUCKING POST TEN FUCKING TIMES A DAY EVEN WHEN I AM V/LA AND THUS OFTEN IN SITUATIONS WHERE I SHOULDN'T FUCKING BE POSTING. There's no exceptions clause, no escape clause, for V/LAs in the role.
In post 880, ObsessedFanGrill wrote:
A. If that's true I doubt RC is going to do the same trick twice like how he did in In Memory.
B. RC has only colored roles in blue or some other color in the past when they were town and tbh he's probably doing the same here.
EPECIALLY if it's related to how the role functions.
Okay.
How does the former not apply to the latter?
That is, how does point A not directly contradict point B? How can you think he won't do the same trick twice, while saying he used the same trick twice?
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Post Post #1688 (isolation #78) » Sat Jan 20, 2018 2:21 am

Post by mastina »

In post 915, Smocaine wrote:Nos is a cool kid who should be voting Creature like the rest of us.
And why, per se, do you think Nosferatu hadn't voted Creature by that point in spite of being well aware of Creature's meta? Nosferatu knows all too fucking good and well EXACTLY why Creature was scum this game and should have known it at the time, too.
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Post Post #1692 (isolation #79) » Sat Jan 20, 2018 2:24 am

Post by mastina »

In post 917, Nosferatu wrote:
In post 1091, Smocaine wrote:Nos is a cool kid who should be voting Creature like the rest of us.
If I did that he'd get lynched.
Like.
Nosferatu absolutely 100% knows Creature's scum meta. If Nos tries to lie and say otherwise, I can point to many games which Nosferatu shares with Creature where Nosferatu displays this awareness of it.
Yet in spite of Nosferatu being someone who should have fucking known this was a scum Creature.

Here, Nosferatu isn't actually voting Creature.
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Post Post #1698 (isolation #80) » Sat Jan 20, 2018 2:27 am

Post by mastina »

In post 943, Torn Up wrote:VOTE: Creature L-2
And this is just flagrantly a blatant-as-fuck bus vote.
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Post Post #1704 (isolation #81) » Sat Jan 20, 2018 2:29 am

Post by mastina »

In post 958, Torn Up wrote:lol @ gameday ending already
-tor
And who, pray tell, contributed to this?

(Literally every Tor post on that page is a scumclaim.)
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Post Post #1708 (isolation #82) » Sat Jan 20, 2018 2:31 am

Post by mastina »

In post 965, Espeonage wrote:
In post 1143, Torn Up wrote:yume
eliboy
alimaki
mathdino
firebringer

wheme
NSG
mastina

are townreads. I'm readless on the other players, so probably lots of scum there

-tor
Bad post. Also very bad slot if creature flips scum.
Indeed it does, would be much appreciated if you're voting with me on it!
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Post Post #1721 (isolation #83) » Sat Jan 20, 2018 2:38 am

Post by mastina »

In post 1019, Smocaine wrote:Mastina, did you draw any conclusions from Hinduragi not being a 'scumflip'?
Not many, though it doesn't matter since apparently he was.

For that matter though, I didn't draw many conclusions WITH him as a scumflip.
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Post Post #1729 (isolation #84) » Sat Jan 20, 2018 2:41 am

Post by mastina »

In post 1046, Espeonage wrote:You could be rolecop that obfuscated any potential tracker but I might just be paranoid.
I doubt there's another rolecop in the game even though mine is a modified rolecop.
In post 1043, Espeonage wrote:Actually I remember I left myself a note.
vote:torn

Was definitely the obligatory bus at the end of the wagon.
Indeed it was. <3
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Post Post #1735 (isolation #85) » Sat Jan 20, 2018 2:44 am

Post by mastina »

In post 1052, ObsessedFanGrill wrote:Also give us a fucking hood cuz ur
Image
He's really not.

Role != alignment.
Play > role.

Mathdino has some suspicious as fuck play.

I'm not clearing him for being in a neighborhood with scum.
For all I know, it could be an all-scum neighborhood and that was incentive to try and keep Creature alive because his death would disable scum powers needed to not be disabled.
Or two scum one town.

Doesn't matter.
I'll judge by play.
And his play? Not town.
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Post Post #1745 (isolation #86) » Sat Jan 20, 2018 2:54 am

Post by mastina »

In post 1060, northsidegal wrote:mastina, you claimed masons with someone who
claimed scum
to you?
Well one, I claimed masons before Hinduragi had even posted (or at least had intent to), and two, he didn't claim scum, he claimed 3p. But yes. I can and will claim mason with claimed 3p because I hold a mafia philosophy where I don't even fucking lynch a claimed serial killer if they let themselves be leashed. I try to maximize utility in ALL roles, even nontown ones, and if said nontown can win WITH the town, all the better.
also, could you explain this:
In post 68, mastina wrote:(My masonbuddy will be able to confirm their identity without my help, by the way, by simple virtue of paraphrasing the contents of our PT--in particular, there was one thing which happened last night that ONLY my masonbuddy would be able to know about, relating to something I did last night that is not public knowledge but can be confirmed to have happened publicly. In short, they can tell you something I did which is undeniable that I did, but which only they would be able to tell I did because only they would know the nature of what I am talking about.)
I told Hinduragi a way he could confirm his identity by giving him information which only my 'masonbuddy' would have access to, yet which was verified thanks to my post in The Deathworlders as having happened as he would have described.
In post 1064, northsidegal wrote:i think anyone familiar with creature's meta would have bussed him there – why torn specifically?
Because that was transparently THE bus vote.

The other votes on Creature developed in a way where by and large they made sense as town.

But the naked vote on Creature is scum trying to get cheap towncred for being on the scum lynch.

Also at this point at the end of 43 I thought it apt to give a readslist.

Yume
Espeonage
northsidegal
WhemePlay
Chickadee
Flat Earth Society
Gamma Emerald
Taro
ObsessedFanGrill
Smocaine
Mathdino
Nosferatu
Torn Up

Loosely.
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Post Post #1751 (isolation #87) » Sat Jan 20, 2018 3:00 am

Post by mastina »

In post 1104, ObsessedFanGrill wrote:Honestly mastina is a self-resolving slot.
I really am.

Don't quite understand why you believe I am though.
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Post Post #1756 (isolation #88) » Sat Jan 20, 2018 3:05 am

Post by mastina »

In post 1127, Ginngie wrote:A reads list doesn't tell anyone anything besides arbitrary stances you decided to place people in the game
Proof that Ginngie's mafia philosophy has diverged from mine. :P

I'm kinda getting burnt out btw, so this will be as much as I can produce tonight. I'm over half way there (cue obligatory Bon Jovi), but I don't think I can finish tonight.

Plus, it's actually more convenient for my restriction if I don't, since that means I can fulfill my Saturday quota with a greater ease simply by continuing my catch-up from here.
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Post Post #1849 (isolation #89) » Sat Jan 20, 2018 9:10 pm

Post by mastina »

Well so much for me catching up tonight.
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Post Post #1850 (isolation #90) » Sat Jan 20, 2018 9:10 pm

Post by mastina »

I need to go to bed.
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Post Post #1851 (isolation #91) » Sat Jan 20, 2018 9:10 pm

Post by mastina »

I work tomorrow morning.
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Post Post #1852 (isolation #92) » Sat Jan 20, 2018 9:11 pm

Post by mastina »

As in, six hours from now, tomorrow morning.
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Post Post #1853 (isolation #93) » Sat Jan 20, 2018 9:11 pm

Post by mastina »

So while I COULD get caught up, it would be a HILARIOUSLY bad idea for me to do so.
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Post Post #1854 (isolation #94) » Sat Jan 20, 2018 9:11 pm

Post by mastina »

I still have to fucking spam to meet the fucking post restriction though.
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Post Post #1855 (isolation #95) » Sat Jan 20, 2018 9:12 pm

Post by mastina »

Not to worry though; tomorrow I should be free, moreso than today. Always am.
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Post Post #1856 (isolation #96) » Sat Jan 20, 2018 9:12 pm

Post by mastina »

I mean, I'm V/LA on the weekends, but I'm MORE V/LA on Saturdays than Sundays, y'see. So often, I get most of my productive work done on Sundays typically in games anyway.
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Post Post #1857 (isolation #97) » Sat Jan 20, 2018 9:13 pm

Post by mastina »

Saturdays frankly I normally don't post much during, so not much of a surprise I failed to do so today.
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Post Post #1858 (isolation #98) » Sat Jan 20, 2018 9:13 pm

Post by mastina »

Soyeah. No content tonight, but I'll give it tomorrow. <3
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Post Post #1906 (isolation #99) » Sun Jan 21, 2018 10:43 pm

Post by mastina »

Alright finally here and catching up...again.

Might not finish tho, since I do have a bedtime for tomorrow. A pretty late one (let's see...leave at 1:30, hour prep time means 12:30, extra hour for my shower means 11:30 am as the time I get up, my body only requires six hours of sleep even if more is ideal so I can push things to 5:30 if I REALLY needed to albeit preferably being done by 3:30), but I have one all the same. Still, here until something stops me from being here.
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Post Post #1907 (isolation #100) » Sun Jan 21, 2018 10:46 pm

Post by mastina »

In post 1135, Torn Up wrote:Ginngie, we're not scum get off.
So what was up with Wheme's guilty on fire? Was mastina not a mason? Someone said it made no sense for a Scum only neighborhood which I have to agree with - does that clear Mastina and Gamma?
~ C
This be scumposting 101.
In post 1145, Torn Up wrote:
In post 1138, Ginngie wrote:be useful and not useL E S S
Useless is being arrogant and mislynching town. Way to take one statement out of context to misrep us.
Why is nosterafu scum? You're being useless tunneling people with no reason so town can get behind you.
~ C
Still very much scum.

I miiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight not have the mental faculties right now to really explain reads so if I don't articulate things clearly enough, my apologies, but.

Scum is scum.
In post 1149, ObsessedFanGrill wrote:ur making yourself look silly
Yes and a town Cheeky is smart enough to not do that derp.
It's faked.
Trying to look town by being ignorant.
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Post Post #1908 (isolation #101) » Sun Jan 21, 2018 10:54 pm

Post by mastina »

In post 1154, Ginngie wrote:ad hom
Textbook, at that.
Like, there's genuine town ad hom which is AtE-laden.
And then there's just going through the motions.

Nos is the latter.
In post 1159, Gamma Emerald wrote:at least until I find reason to not think scum would be in a hood where the death of one of their own would vanillaize them
It's called a modified enabler, whereby living, Creature enables the scum powers within and upon his death disables them...temporarily. Giving scum incentive to not let him die.

Enablers are a reasonably common scum role.
Think of Creature's role as not a vanillaizer, but as an enabler, and suddenly his role becomes a lot less clearing of the 'hood. ESPECIALLY since the disabled roles are
temporary
. If Creature permanently vanillaized the players within, I'd be willing to buy that they're town, actually. But because it's temporary, it's actually got to raise the question: why?
In post 1167, Smocaine wrote:Tor wouldn't miss that as they are tryhards.
On the one hand, it wasn't Tor speaking. On the other hand, Tor absolutely should have caught it and then raised it for CheekyTeeky to see. So yes.
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Post Post #1909 (isolation #102) » Sun Jan 21, 2018 11:14 pm

Post by mastina »

In post 1203, Mathdino wrote:(confusion seems legit, although I'd like to know if that was Tora or Cheeky before I lock this).
The confusion was faked as fuck and even if it wasn't faked it wasn't town, it was something meant to look town but which really isn't town. Even if the confusion WAS real it wasn't town. The confusion was either faked (and thus, scum), or NAI (and thus, not town). In no realm was it town.
In post 1217, Torn Up wrote:mastina has claimed a neighborhood with a player that flipped scum, and didn't claim any powers outside of that.
You can pretend to not read all you'd like but you know as good as I do that I did in fact claim powers outside of that. Two, in fact.
In post 1220, Torn Up wrote:mastina what would you say to clearing you because neighborhood for 2 scum is stupid?
I'd say personally from a design perspective an all-scum neighborhood is ridiculously stupid and for that matter so too is a 2-1 scum-town neighborhood, but it is in fact even stupider to ignore the possibility of it because just because I, personally, as a moderator would not make that choice doesn't mean RadiantCowbells the moderator wouldn't.

In other words. Yes it's stupid, because role != alignment, and play > role. So scum play means lynch a person regardless of their role, because their role doesn't tell you they're town. That having been said, I am town on other merits outside of role-based ones and this is pretty damn self-evident since there are some things I just can't fucking fake and my play this game is among them.
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Post Post #1910 (isolation #103) » Sun Jan 21, 2018 11:20 pm

Post by mastina »

In post 1237, Torn Up wrote:but math being neighborized by scum that vanillizes him for a cycle after their death.
Except that Math wasn't neighborIZED, he was part of the neighborhood from the start. Creature never got to use the neighborize because it's a night action and we lynched him D1 before it could be used.

So no.

Any logic applying to me applies to the Math 'hood, and vice-versa.

And my stance is you absolutely do not clear a player off of the neighborhood just because someone inside flipped scum--and trying to clear yourself on those merits is in fact suspicious as fuck. Mathdino has tried claiming towncred by virtue of being a neighbor to scum, but that is absolutely not something he has earned. I put zero stock into neighborhood roles. I put stock into play, and insisting "I'm town because of this not-actually-alignment-confirming role!!!" is not townplay.
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Post Post #1911 (isolation #104) » Sun Jan 21, 2018 11:24 pm

Post by mastina »

In post 1259, Ginngie wrote:you're daft for not paying attention
Or just scum who either is and decided to fake not, or legitimately isn't because he felt no need to. (Since as scum, he already knows the important bits to him.)
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Post Post #1913 (isolation #105) » Sun Jan 21, 2018 11:35 pm

Post by mastina »

In post 1300, Chickadee wrote:@MASTINA HINDURAGI IS DEAD, EH
Yes I'm quite aware and I never said otherwise?
In post 1303, Torn Up wrote:you don't even know who flipped but you have scumreads
-tor
I do know who flipped. I always read the flips for a game. Always. I read the lynch flip, I read the nightkill flip. Even if I read nothing else, I read those.

But yes, I do in fact have scumreads!
In post 1308, northsidegal wrote:why did you believe him?
Because seriously claiming something that ridiculous is just too stupendous to be a scum gambit, or so I thought. There's literally no fucking reason he couldn't just have realclaimed his powers as town. I am also the poster child for trusting 3p claims, and his seemed like one which was possible to potentially break the game with.
why did you claim masons with someone who claimed scum to you?
For a start I claimed masons before Hinduragi posted. Even given Hinduragi's posts, I trusted his claim--which wasn't scum, it was 3p. And 3p is NOT in any realm, scum.
In post 1316, Mathdino wrote:Going off of your PT, who are the scum?
Gee maybe I'd know this if Hinduragi had actually fucking been forced to post and given the gamestate where that was a necessity!
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Post Post #1915 (isolation #106) » Sun Jan 21, 2018 11:58 pm

Post by mastina »

In post 1339, Smocaine wrote:Mastina, can you promise me that you will stop fakeclaiming mason?
No. Over my dead body. In every game where it is the correct move to make, I will make it. And it is almost always the correct move to make--even this game, I maintain it would have had its utility and served its purpose had it not been for the fucking quicklynch-vig.
Everyone knows that's what you do
And everyone can go fuck themselves if they don't bother to think that maybe, just maybe, I'm not going lolmason when I make my claims and have put actual fucking thought into it.
You are dragging every other mason claim down with your bs
The ideal strategy for towns is to maintain healthy skepticism of the masons, but to treat them as town, thus, creating a gamestate wherein the scum don't want to kill them and thus delay doing so...but MUST kill them, and thus, do so. If I achieve that, then that's a GOOD fucking thing. Not a bad thing.
that provably doesn't even work
To the contrary, it works better than random odds. Significantly so in fact and is responsible for many a memorable moment including having directly led to scum fucking up a fakeclaim in camn's revenge. (Which had the side-effect of clearing my target, Ginngie, too.) It is in fact a
gambit
. The name tells you it involves gambling, and part of gambling is that
sometimes you fail
. Sometimes it backfires. Sometimes it doesn't work out. But contrary to your stance which is from this game only, I've got a very long record to my name which says that it does in fact work from many fucking games. It doesn't ALWAYS work. Because gambits can fail. But it works out so disproportionately often that fuck yes I keep the strategy up, and will continue to do so until it no longer suits me.
considering suicide bombers are blowing up you mason "buddies" regardless.
Something which would not have happened without the quicklynch because I was not around to dissuade Firebringer from making that shot as I would have if given the time. Which, mind you, would technically have been a mistake since dead scum > no dead scum, but see also my argument RE: no fucking information thanks to said quicklynch and suicide-vig.
In post 1326, Torn Up wrote:NSG is ignoring me. I'm getting kind of frustrated that noone is answering my questions.
Let's start some drama eh? Tim Hortons; Sorry; The earth is flat; VOTE: NSG
~ C
This also comes across as incredibly insincere.
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Post Post #1916 (isolation #107) » Mon Jan 22, 2018 12:33 am

Post by mastina »

In post 1366, Smocaine wrote:Why you think it was good play to lie about being a mason as 'town'?
This philosophy of mine has been one I've developed over the course of hundreds of games. I'd never be able to fully explain it over the course of one, least of all, one showing why it's a gambit and not a guarantee. (By which, I mean. Once again.
Gambits can fail
. That's why they're fucking called gambits. The definition of a gambit is, "a device, action, or opening remark, typically one entailing a degree of risk, that is calculated to gain an advantage", or to use the chess one which is also apt, "an opening in which a player makes a sacrifice, typically of a pawn, for the sake of some compensating advantage". Gambits have, inherent to them, a RISK, calculated such that they are more likely--but not guaranteed--to give an advantage in a game. Some things are given up during the gambit, with the hope that the compensation granted is worth it.)

People seem to think the mason gambit is just a lolmason thing where I just do it automatically without a care in the world, without a thought put in, with no effort, just done. But there's a whole philosophy governing it. It has many nuances where things get developed every step of the way. These things are designed such that with how the mason gambit is developed, the town is meant to come out ahead, often in the form of being given conftown players who weren't meant to be conftown. (If scum nightkill the "masons", then it often can reveal to the town that scum were not among them, because scum almost never kill their neighbors, ESPECIALLY not when their neighbor is calling them conftown. People seem to forget this aspect.)

But because it is a gambit, not a guarantee, sometimes it doesn't work out. This game it didn't, but I will defend the fucking strategy to the death because it fucking works better than random, better than normal, if you properly implement it. Yes, it is easy to fuck up a false mason claim as a neighbor. That's why the mason gambit is not widespread outside of its primary user, me. I don't have many copycats and the few I do have execute it poorly. But I'm the one who developed the strategy, the theorem, the philosophy, so I know the subtle nuances of it and I can get it to work for me most of the time.

Now could it be that I just have gotten over my many fucking games lucky? Luck of the gods where in spite of getting it like fifty times I've only seen a scum neighbor in a small fraction of them with this being the first non-everyone-in-a-neighborhood-game? Well sure, that's possible I guess. But I'd still say there's at least some degree of skill involved.
In post 1368, Mathdino wrote:why is mastina wallposting about her PT
Because letting you know the contents within of what transpired could never be anything other than pro-town. That's a no shit sherlock thing.

I'm at my cutoff, so bottom of page 55 is it for me for the night.
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Post Post #1917 (isolation #108) » Mon Jan 22, 2018 12:36 am

Post by mastina »

Oh, was one post short of the limit, but this should be ten now.
Anyway.
Bedz.
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Post Post #1963 (isolation #109) » Thu Jan 25, 2018 6:45 am

Post by mastina »

At work, so have only 10 minutes or so, but I need to ask the mod some questions about my role.

IF it works the way that I THINK it does, then Ginngie is now conftown. As in. Ginngie was conftown by play, but now would also be conftown by role.
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Post Post #1965 (isolation #110) » Thu Jan 25, 2018 6:52 am

Post by mastina »

I know that targeting her when I soulread her as town SEEMS like a waste, but there is a very realistic chance that the specific way my rolecop works makes it as strong as a cop investigation.

My way of using cops is to target competent town players and preferably ones that won't die during the night (in hindsight, this made Ellibereth a hilariously stupid target), and Ginngie fit the bill.

I figured that people would only trust me on the soulread for so long, so getting a cop inno would help a lot.
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Post Post #1971 (isolation #111) » Thu Jan 25, 2018 6:55 am

Post by mastina »

Also,
VOTE: Nosferatu
Flat earth society could be scum, too.

Will continue when I get home.
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Post Post #1982 (isolation #112) » Thu Jan 25, 2018 7:03 am

Post by mastina »

Actually, looking at Scum's role PMs, I'm pretty sure my role won't work as a cop.

The main usage I'll get is from players paraphrasing the full nature of their roles, so unfortunately, my result is mostly useless.
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Post Post #2064 (isolation #113) » Thu Jan 25, 2018 9:10 pm

Post by mastina »

Ended up spending the night with my girlfriend instead of mafiaing.
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Post Post #2065 (isolation #114) » Thu Jan 25, 2018 9:10 pm

Post by mastina »

For that reason, am too tired to give game content tonight.
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Post Post #2066 (isolation #115) » Thu Jan 25, 2018 9:11 pm

Post by mastina »

I mean, I wouldn't even be posting now, except I have the damn restriction.
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Post Post #2067 (isolation #116) » Thu Jan 25, 2018 9:11 pm

Post by mastina »

Butyeah. I am tired, I need sleep.
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Post Post #2068 (isolation #117) » Thu Jan 25, 2018 9:11 pm

Post by mastina »

(Even if I wasn't I wouldn't be in the mood to play mafia, so.)
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Post Post #2069 (isolation #118) » Thu Jan 25, 2018 9:12 pm

Post by mastina »

I'll play when I can, but that'll be tomorrow not tonight.
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Post Post #2078 (isolation #119) » Fri Jan 26, 2018 1:35 pm

Post by mastina »

Alright, I am here. I don't remember where I was in my catch-up, but I do need to get caught up. Presumably though, it's far enough behind that I don't need to spam out my opening more than an introductory "I'm here".
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Post Post #2079 (isolation #120) » Fri Jan 26, 2018 1:38 pm

Post by mastina »

In post 1376, Mathdino wrote:mastina give me reasons to trust Ginngie other than because you like her and like to blindly trust people (gj)
Because I soulread her as town, she doesn't bus scum yet was early on Creature and lolhammered Torn Up, and because my rolecop result--while not clearing her--does give credence to the idea that she is being truthful about her role (though I'd still like a fullclaim from her so I can confirm).
also need reasons to trust OFG/alisaehydra
Sorry won't find any from me, they're in the scum pool (potentially with you, depends) albeit not my main focus. (Speaking of, I wanted to make a post comparing wagons, and will do so for a quick reference.)
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Post Post #2080 (isolation #121) » Fri Jan 26, 2018 1:47 pm

Post by mastina »

In post 978, RadiantCowbells wrote:Creature (9): Ginngie, Smocaine, Chickadee, Firebringer, northsidegal, ObsessedFanGrill, Whemeplay, Torn Up, Yume
Firebringer (1): MathDino
Northsidegal (1): Nosferatu
Whemeplay (1): Hinduragi
Obsessed Fan Grill (1): Espeonage
Not Voting: Taroumaru, Creature, Mastina, Gamma Emerald
In post 1952, RadiantCowbells wrote:
Flat Earth Society (1): ObsessedFanGrill

Torn Up (8): Mastina, MathDino, Smocaine, Whemeplay, Espeonage, Chickadee, Gamma Emerald, Ginngie
Northsidegal (2): Taroumaru, Yume
Mathdino (1): Torn Up
Not Voting: northsidegal, Nosferatu, Flat Earth Society
Flat Earth Society (1): ObsessedFanGrill
NOTABLE NAMES ON BOTH WAGONS:
Smocaine
NOTABLE NAMES OFF BOTH WAGONS:
Nosferatu, Taroumaru, Flat Earth Society
NOTABLE NAMES OFF CREATURE:
Mathdino, Gamma Emerald
NOTABLE NAMES OFF TORN UP:
ObsessedFanGrill (this is actually something which looks bad--everyone has reason to vote Creature even the scum; scum down two members had reason not to vote Torn Up)

>random odds that the off-both has at least one if not two scum. Possibly all three, although that'd be lol. (Unlikely, but not out of contention altogether.)

I loosely still townread Yume and think northsidegal to be more likely town than not.
The names off Creature but on Torn Up could be scum but are less likely and don't fit the pattern as well.
Smocaine could be a double-busser but is incredibly unlikely to be so.

Basically the scum pool for me would be Nosferatu/Flat Earth Society > ObsessedFanGrill/Taroumaru > Mathdino > Gamma Emerald > Smocaine.
Most to least, approximately.
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Post Post #2082 (isolation #122) » Fri Jan 26, 2018 1:52 pm

Post by mastina »

In post 1379, ObsessedFanGrill wrote:Mastina do you
Want a hug?
Given the shit I'm going through?

Yes.
In post 1395, Mathdino wrote:ideally mastina
since my question was directed at her, not you
The thing about Ginngie is this.

If she decided to bus.

Then it wouldn't be a halfhearted bus.

It wouldn't be just thrown out there, bussing for the sake of bussing.

When you bus, you need to get
mileage
out of your bus. You need it to go a long way. And in order for that to happen, you need to actually push the bus. Not just throw it out there and hope it randomly earns some loltowncred.

So it's not that Ginngie is town because she doesn't bus.
It's that Ginngie is town because she wouldn't bus
in this way
.
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Post Post #2083 (isolation #123) » Fri Jan 26, 2018 2:09 pm

Post by mastina »

In post 1429, Espeonage wrote:You are nitpicking today and avoiding actually playing mafia. You also aren't differentiating between disagreeing vehemently with someone and them being scummy.
So uh, yeah. do you ever get dense and stop playing mafia properly for no reason?
An almost identical descriptor can be applied to Smocaine; when Esp can, would love to know his thoughts. (I'm assuming he's not dead dead, that he can still give something to the thread somehow at some point, be it past or present.)
In post 1443, Taroumaru wrote:Actually I will do Nos later so blah anyone have anything interesting to say.
Could see this as a scumteam btw.
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Post Post #2084 (isolation #124) » Fri Jan 26, 2018 2:32 pm

Post by mastina »

In post 1473, The Flat Earth Society wrote:
In post 1360, mastina wrote: At approximately 10:50 pm, RC created the topic.
Out of curiosity, what day and what timezone?
Everything I state is always in PST or PDT, whichever of the two is in effect (PST right now I believe); the Pacific timezone. The date was Friday the 12th.
In post 1472, Mathdino wrote:like hell even if you haven't read the game you could at least start asking questions and shit
That would require me to have content to work off of, only possible by...reading the fucking thread, the thing I didn't have the time for.
i've asked you some questions to actually get us started on sorting and you're literally not responding in order to wallow in your guilt
Or, get this.

I read things chronologically.
I break chronology to read mod day end/night end posts--to see who was nightkilled, to see who was lynched, to see the wagons at the end of the day.
But that's it.
So post 25 doesn't exist before post 24 does.

And often, post 14 doesn't exist before post 13 would.
please budget your time
:lol:
Like I'd ever be able to.
You're talking to the girl who is both autistic (and thus, suffers from extreme issues with inertia) and severely bipolar (having alternating manic highs and depressive lows), in that I am just all over the place, can't keep focus, and can only work on something when properly motivated, who when out of it...

...Is just
out
of it.

Budget my time?

I wish.

Literally fucking impossible to do.

Also different things take a different mindset and a different amount of time.

Catching up requires a very, very, very specific mindset, one which involves, "Yes I actually can be productive by catching up right now". If I don't get that mindset, if I can't get the mindset of "I am productive by catching up now"--and I often cannot get this mindset--then I can't catch up. I just can't.

Which ties in to what I indicated. Different amounts of time, and different
perceptions
about the amount of time. No matter how long, no matter how much time, I take to write up a wall complaining...as far as I'm concerned, it took no time at all even if that was not the case. If I think something is possible, if I think it's something which takes very little time, then I think I can do it so I start to do it even if it later turns out to have been impossible.

If I think something isn't possible, if I think something cannot be done, if I think something will take more time than I have, then even if it were possible, even if it could be done, even if I had the time to actually do it, then I won't because to me my mind said it couldn't be done and the mind makes it real.
In post 1465, Mathdino wrote:Why would you want scum to kill conftown instead of killing potential suspects? You must have played inno child before right???
I would want the scum to kill me because it would be killing conftown who is more valuable to the town as cannon fodder for the nightkill than alive as a scumhunter.

Also, no. I'm pretty sure I've never actually drawn innocent child. I've been close, from many friendly neighbors, half-masonries, and full-masonries (hey guess what mastina legitimately and genuinely draws mason often enough that it'd practically be a meme even without her faking extras), but innocent child? Could be mistaken but I legit don't remember so much as a single game where I drew it.
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Post Post #2085 (isolation #125) » Fri Jan 26, 2018 2:45 pm

Post by mastina »

In post 1489, Smocaine wrote:if you don't think you are doing anything wrong, then you would agree with everyone fakeclaiming mason if they roll neighbor.
This would be an acceptable outcome, yes! Sorry to disappoint you if you thought I wouldn't think so. Because yes, I absolutely do think it would help the town in the long-run, so long as the players followed the proper methodology behind it. The main mistake is in thinking it doesn't have one. Once you understand the actual backing behind the gambit, absolutely, yes, anyone can pull it off.
Because I see a future where masons are forced to push a haughty town slot because they don't want to hard cc and just muddies conftown's reads.
Fun fact, something similar to this has already happened...but was
one of the best things in the game
. As in. The players doing this held suspicion of the claim's legitimacy, and were cautious about it, stated their doubts and so on and so forth...but when they did claim during massclaim, they were seen as conftown for it when they otherwise would have been seen as suspicious.

So once more, in my experience? The thing you described, not a bad thing. An absolutely good thing which helped the town. My experience has been that the mason gambit vastly improves the town-EV for the game.
In post 1481, Mathdino wrote:are you actively ignoring me
Ignoring requires me to actually fucking have read the thread.

Anyone who's actually fucking played with me in a game that I get behind on knows I read chronologically. So there should have been plenty of people telling you this and if it's absent then frankly that in of itself would be suspect because this being a well-known fact, it's not something they should let stand.
In post 1475, Mathdino wrote:give me a read on ginngie and OFG, tell me why you trusted them D1
Why did you think I trusted OFG? I recall nothing of the sort; in fact I said much the opposite?
In post 1476, Mathdino wrote:also i assume from that post that it would then be reasonable for me to expect my (now VT) neighbour to be town based on moderation statistics
By the numbers? Yes.
But again.
Play > role.
And role != alignment.
So even if the role is one which by the numbers is more likely to be town, that does not a town role make. You judge them by their actions.
Indeed it is! What say you to that?

Also girlfriend time might be incoming which will delay the catchup but won't get rid of it.
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Post Post #2293 (isolation #126) » Sat Jan 27, 2018 4:45 am

Post by mastina »

Welp turns out I did girlfriend time.
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Post Post #2294 (isolation #127) » Sat Jan 27, 2018 4:45 am

Post by mastina »

What this means is I won't be able to get to this game right now.
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Post Post #2295 (isolation #128) » Sat Jan 27, 2018 4:46 am

Post by mastina »

And family night is tomorrow (well by now it's basically today), so I don't think I'll get a chance.

I'll need to spam-prod-dodge tomorrow, unfortunately, but I'll be free Sunday.
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Post Post #2346 (isolation #129) » Sat Jan 27, 2018 9:17 pm

Post by mastina »

Hey so like, you remember what I said, right?
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Post Post #2347 (isolation #130) » Sat Jan 27, 2018 9:17 pm

Post by mastina »

Yeah, well...unfortunately...still applies.
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Post Post #2348 (isolation #131) » Sat Jan 27, 2018 9:17 pm

Post by mastina »

I have family night which is actually still ongoing right now.
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Post Post #2349 (isolation #132) » Sat Jan 27, 2018 9:18 pm

Post by mastina »

Yet I'm tired as fuck and need to go to bed.
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Post Post #2350 (isolation #133) » Sat Jan 27, 2018 9:18 pm

Post by mastina »

So I can't work on this game tonight.
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Post Post #2351 (isolation #134) » Sat Jan 27, 2018 9:18 pm

Post by mastina »

(Exactly as I said.)
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Post Post #2352 (isolation #135) » Sat Jan 27, 2018 9:18 pm

Post by mastina »

Which means...yep.
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Post Post #2353 (isolation #136) » Sat Jan 27, 2018 9:18 pm

Post by mastina »

I'm spamming as my prod-dodge.
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Post Post #2354 (isolation #137) » Sat Jan 27, 2018 9:18 pm

Post by mastina »

Because fuck this posting restriction.
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Post Post #2355 (isolation #138) » Sat Jan 27, 2018 9:19 pm

Post by mastina »

I can't not-post when V/LA.
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Post Post #3118 (isolation #139) » Thu Feb 15, 2018 4:17 pm

Post by mastina »

In post 3008, Firebringer wrote:Calling this a Town win
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Post Post #3119 (isolation #140) » Thu Feb 15, 2018 4:19 pm

Post by mastina »

In post 3033, WhemeStar wrote:
In post 3028, Firebringer wrote:Town did win tho
In post 3034, Alisae wrote:Also my play was garbage hahahahahahahahahaha

sigh
Echooooooooo.
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Post Post #3120 (isolation #141) » Thu Feb 15, 2018 4:22 pm

Post by mastina »

In post 3062, mhsmith0 wrote:Sk win approproaye tbh. Neither town nor wolves really played well imo.
Would say so.
Town had moments, but not nearly enough to outweigh all the times they...well. Didn't have their moments. :shifty:
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Post Post #3122 (isolation #142) » Thu Feb 15, 2018 4:27 pm

Post by mastina »

In post 3107, RadiantCowbells wrote:There was also no investgation on town besides a top cop that got vanilla ised very early.
*raises hand*
The linecop counts!

...Kinda.
Sorta.
Ish.
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Post Post #3123 (isolation #143) » Thu Feb 15, 2018 4:29 pm

Post by mastina »

(Not that it amounted to much given that I had junk investigative targets, the nightkill N1, Ginngie, and then AliMaki which was gonna be a waste given Smocaine conftowned them the very next day.)
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Post Post #3174 (isolation #144) » Fri Feb 16, 2018 12:04 pm

Post by mastina »

In post 3148, Ginngie wrote:should have said that bruv
He actually did?

I mean if I was around at the time I'd have backed him up and voted the fuck out of Tarou.
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Post Post #3179 (isolation #145) » Fri Feb 16, 2018 2:04 pm

Post by mastina »

In post 3178, Firebringer wrote:
In post 3174, mastina wrote:I mean if I was around at the time I'd have backed him up and voted the fuck out of Tarou.
Suuuuurrrrreeeeee
In post 1653, mastina wrote:
In post 353, Torn Up wrote:
In post 250, Gamma Emerald wrote:UNVOTE: WhemePlay
Not sure if anyone around currently is worth voting for
also how tf did I miss Ginngie in that list of common players
'not sure if anyone around currently is worth voting for'
I'll take thoughts villagers never have for 300
-tor
Given my sentiments at the time were identical?

Tough luck, it's thoughts villagers can and have had because I am town and I had that thought.
In post 1660, mastina wrote:
In post 501, ObsessedFanGrill wrote:But I want mastina to talk to me about Gamma, because I could easily wrong here.
I don't see why given I basically lack Gamma experience though my inclination is still more town than scum.
In post 1670, mastina wrote:I saw Gamma's posts early on and my more or less positive treatment of Gamma and realized he'd probably be interpreted as being that, which I was okay with because frankly I wanted him to take a bullet for the 'masonry'.

In that sense, I thought him more likely to be town than not though did note it was possible he was scum white knighting in a sense.
In post 1745, mastina wrote:Yume
Espeonage
northsidegal
WhemePlay
Chickadee
Flat Earth Society
Gamma Emerald
Taro
ObsessedFanGrill
Smocaine
Mathdino
Nosferatu
Torn Up
Loosely.
(Okay so Gamma was only one spot above Taro but he WAS in fact ABOVE Taro.)
In post 2080, mastina wrote:
NOTABLE NAMES OFF BOTH WAGONS:
Nosferatu, Taroumaru, Flat Earth Society
NOTABLE NAMES OFF CREATURE:
Mathdino, Gamma Emerald
>random odds that the off-both has at least one
if not two
scum
. Possibly all three, although that'd be lol. (Unlikely, but not out of contention altogether.)
The names off Creature but on Torn Up could be scum but are less likely and don't fit the pattern as well.

Basically the scum pool for me would be Nosferatu/Flat Earth Society > ObsessedFanGrill/
Taroumaru
>
Mathdino
> Gamma Emerald > Smocaine.
Most to least, approximately.
Yep! Sure would!

Taro was a weaker read than Gamma who was a stronger read.

So I would have backed Gamma up and lynched the fuck out of Taro.
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Post Post #3181 (isolation #146) » Fri Feb 16, 2018 4:46 pm

Post by mastina »

Okay small correction, Firebringer's right.
I wouldn't lynch the fuck out of Taro because lynching the fuck out of Taro implies I had enough sway where that'd have been possible. :shifty:

I WOULD
vote
the fuck out of Taro tho. :P
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