Open 709: Masons and Monks (Game Over)

[Raya36]

Hey everyone!

Who says we can't do both? I'm Raya36 or Ray and I'm going to vote Talon because I can.

VOTE: Talon

[Raya36]

Exam week prodge

Will post tonight

[Raya36]

Jay's play was confusing me so I did a quick meta dive. Their play seems to be closest to the town play I saw in a few of their games. They seem a lot more relaxed as town whereas as scum they seem to be a little more tryhardy and not as relaxed and fluffy. I'll give a slight town lean but I'm still going to keep an eye on them since I find their play really hard to read.

VOTE: jaydragonking

voting the same person as the person above you in rvs....rookie mistake

Is this actually a thing or a joke?

I was going to say an early townlean on Momo as well until 43. How is thay even reasonable to get a scumread over. 46 was weird too. "True, that wasn't scummy; this is a good place for a wagon anyway; this thing is scummy; unvotes"
I am getting townvibes the rest of his play though.

I think I feel fairly good about Moz being town so far.

Scumlean on Beef.

I feel like rayaś excuse seems legit.......around this time would be midterms for high school students, right (mid january)

That's right. (Meant exam month not exam week though.) This is my last week before my exams. Next week I have a week long process exam and three more exams the week after as well as 4 or so tests and a project the next couple weeks. Luckily mafiascum will probably be my go-to spot for study breaks.

Early townlean on Math. I liked his entrance post.

Semi-sheeping Math. I got the gut scumlean on Beef earlier for posting so much of nothing but I also really like Math's analysis on him.
And his reactions pretty much confirmed this... the "I'm going to OMGUS and I don't care what you think" is coming across a lot like he really does care and wants us to think he's town for him not caring. I also don't like how he keeps calling Math's push dumb and a reach but he never directly quotes anything and explains why it's dumb/reachy.
VOTE: Beef

L-1

[Raya36]

First of all I want to apologize for not being around much D1. I'm not going to bore you with my long list of reasons why I was busy but the bulk of it was exams and tests. Anyway, I spent the night reading the thread so I have this now:

Town:

-Mathdino - Very strong townread here. His play seems really oriented towards not only finding scum (which isn't necessarily a towntell since it's multiball) but also limiting info given to scum which alone is giving me pretty strong town vibes but I'm also getting a strong town gut read from him as well.

-JaydragonKing - This one is on the weaker side of a townread but definitely not just a lean. With the meta I did earlier staying consistent through their iso as well as a general gut read I'm happy to put them as town.

Town Lean:

-momo - As I mentioned earlier I don't like the thought process behind 43. It just makes no sense. 155 is just bad as well. Are you trying to out the masons/monks? Besides those two posts which overall are pretty minor I'm getting town vibes from this slot. I'm liking all of the analyses as well.

-davesaz - This is more or less a gut read. I liked his posting and nothing stuck out as scummy.

-mozamis - Weak gut town read. Partially due to meta since I remember playing a game with him as scum and his play was nothing like this. I don't think I've seen a town game though so this is pretty weak. I am squinting at the vote on beef though. The entire game basically he was opposed to the beef wagon until there was basically no hope for beef. I could see him as a potential partner.

Null:

-Assemblerotws - Not enough to get a read from him yet.
-Dunnstral - Also not enough for a read.

Scum Lean:

-Kotoko Utsugi - Have to agree with Math on this one. I liked the catch up posts at the start of her iso but then on it seems like she was saying a lot of nothing and just using busy work to get through the day. I'm happy with her as a scumlean for now but I'm definitely watching this slot.

Scum:

-Archwing - going through his iso it kind of seems like he's sharing the bare minimim but still appearinf busy. Also 231 seems a like scum unsure whether they should bus and not fully committing. Another thing that is really weird is on 231 we get this:

so I don't know anything at all about Beef.... but this is so fucking scummy, like I don't really.... does Scum!Beef really go down this road?

But then next post 232 we get

Also, I think beef wagon is shit.

There is no natural progression between these posts at all. He goes on to say how he prefers an assemble vote and even after saying this to beef

Man, you make it really hard to advocate against your wagon. Pretty sure this is one of the worst posts in this thread.

Still without switching his vote to beef.
I would not be surprised if he is beef's partner.

[Raya36]

Forgot to place my vote
VOTE: Archwing

[Raya36]

Popping in to say tomorrow is my biggest exam/test day which is why I haven't been on much the past couple days. Promise some content tomorrow after school

[Raya36]

School's canceled which really screws up my exams but now I at least have time for this.

The entire game basically he was opposed to the beef wagon until there was basically no hope for beef.

i thought Beef was town until he voted Momo for no reason. In fact, it might have been my vote that ended it for Beef.

That's fair. I'm liking all of the posting you did too so I think I'm happy with you as town.

Feeling a bit worse about Dunn. Coming back only to ask about a vote on him is scummy. His iso is pretty bad too. His first post is a '?' to an rvs vote on him. Then we get him saying 'reading up' but with no other comments. We get a post about how he missed the lynch with no comment on the lynch or anything. Defense post. Another defense post/directing people to look at the people on Beef's wagon (that he's conveniently not on). Finally questioning a vote on him. Consider this a scumlean.

I am thinking more clearly now. probably.

VOTE: momo
I think he's playing dumb on #100 and #127. wtf on #270. demands jay put their vote on me on #276
That's all for now.

fos: A50 for misrepresenting Archwing.
fos: JaydragonKing for being self-conscious about perceived alignment and voting/omgusing everybody like a force of chaos.

Man, you make it really hard to advocate against your wagon. Pretty sure this is one of the worst posts in this thread. Momo is 100% not today's lynch. A50 explained the alleged misrep on me. What you've described is literally how Jay plays. It's like you didn't really read.

Possible partner post. Has been pushing assemble which happens to be the only viable CW.

Ooh, you're right. I already found this post to be a possible partner post to begin with but I didn't even catch that Assemble was the only other cw. Even more sus now.


Anyway, Archwing isn't here rn so my vote really isn't doing much so I'll move to my scumlean for now
VOTE: Kotoko

[Raya36]

Vote Count (1.8)

Almost50 [0]

Archwing [0]

Assemblerotws [4]

davesaz, Kotoko Utsugi, Archwing, JaydragonKing

[LYNCHED]

Beefster [7]

Mathdino, Almost50, talon152, Raya36, momo, mozamis, Beefster

davesaz [0]

Dunnstral [1]

Assemblerotws

JaydragonKing [0]

Kotoko Utsugi [0]

Mathdino [0]

momo [0]

mozamis [0]

Raya36 [0]

talon152 [0]

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Not Voting:

Dunnstral

I think we should definitely be looking at the wagon. I forget who said it but someone mentioned that it would be odd for Beef to have self-hammered if their partner had the option to hammer for towncred so it's probably most likely their partner is on the wagon.

That does take some support away from my Archwing theory although I think with what we already have on Archwing as possible partner associatives I'm still open to consider him being Beef's partner but on Beef's cw instead.

Looking on the wagon we have Mathdino, Almost50, talon152, Raya36, momo, mozamis and Beefster. Obviously it's not A50 or Beefstar or talon, I know it's not me and I'm very confident in my Math read. That leaves
momo and mozamis.

I have momo and moz as town leans.

I originally said moz could be a potential partner to Beef but I'm less confident in that now. It's still possible that he was bussing but he has a point in saying that Beef still might have a had a chance without his vote added on.

momo is probably not his partner mainly based on Beef seeimingly attempting to get a cw on momo and Beef giving slight pushes on momo the whole game.

So if Beef's partner is on his wagon Moz would probably be the most likely (although this still may be unlikely). If Beef's partner is off the wagon it's probably Archwing and this is still what I'm leaning towards the most.

[Raya36]

I think we should definitely be looking at the wagon. I forget who said it but someone mentioned that it would be odd for Beef to have self-hammered if their partner had the option to hammer for towncred so it's probably most likely their partner is on the wagon.

i think i said that. thing is, beef may have just self hammered to shut down discussion as he said. or maybe he was pissed off with his partner. or basically was just sulking rage quitting.
who knows?
the reason i say all this is because i'm struggling to see scum on beefs wagon.

Yeah, I definitely agree. Since I pretty much townread the entire wagon I'm more inclined to think that his partner is off the wagon (or I'm really bad at reading people). So I guess he just wanted to shut discussion down or something. My best guess for the partner is still Archwing for sure. I'll definitely need to reevaluate at some point though since I'm sure at least one scum from the other team is probably on the wagon.

As per my TvT comment.. Not really sure the confusion, but lemme explain. I've had difficulties looking at interactions like that in the past. I've been wrong plenty of times. I forget which game I played, but it was recently, and I saw a VERY similar interaction happen, and I was vocal about thinking it was TvS. And I was rather confident in that... someone had responded to me about how TvS is usually the hardest interaction to find, and that usually a gut read TvS interaction is actually TvT. That is how I ended up with that.

Wait, so you're saying you're reading them as TvS therefore they are TvT? Am I reading this wrong?

I feel alright with Moz for now, until I re-read. I'm sus on Dino... I feel like he's been too strong this game, like.. He's sort of taken charge and people are following blindly without questioning him.
FoS Mathdino
I still don't really like momo's slot, personally. I'd have to meta dive to really understand, but I gotta re-read stuff in here first. Raya has seemed pretty good to me in d2.

It seems like you're townreading the people who recently wanted to vote you (me and Moz) and putting a little sus towards the most vocal and difficult to mislynch player.

Moving my vote back here now
VOTE: Archwing

[Raya36]

What's Archwings motivation in throwing shade at the most difficult to lynch player in general regardless of my alignment?

Could potentially encourage someone else (maybe the other scum team) to dig in and find something to push, maybe a few townies follow along too. I find it not that hard to encourage a push on a very vocal IC since people will always have a certain amount of suspicion of them just for being vocal, experienced and townleading.

@Arch Fair enough, I suppose. I still find it a bit odd that Moz and I were the ones that wanted to vote you and are the two off the wagon you townread. Could be a coincidence I guess.

[Raya36]

@Raya: I'm not seeing that. I'm not an easy lynch no matter what. Why wouldn't he as scum just remove me at night? What's his motivation for doing this during the day?

It could be to free up a nk that would have been spent on you but you're probably right. That part of my argument is flawed. I still stand by it being odd to for him to townread the two people scumreading him though.

[Raya36]

I had time to look at a few interactions to see is possible partners with koto or beef.

Assemble could be Beef's partner but likely isn't Koto's.

Dunn could be a partner to both although I'm leaning towards Koto of the two. When I looked over the interactions it seemed a little like Koto was trying to distance from Dunn. The feeling "bleh" about Dunn "lurkaderping" sounds like trying to distance but with using language that probably wouldn't be taken seriously.

Dave could be partners with Beef although with the timing of his vote on koto I doubt he's with her. He seemed a little flip-floppy on Beef and also Beef's rvs vote that was quickly changed could have been distancing.

That's all I had time for.

My exams got pushed forward a day so I'm going to be busy studying today. I'll try to post a bit but no promises on anything particularly good.

[Raya36]

@Arch comes from Koto's mentions of Assemble rather than what Assemble has been doing. Just ctrl+F "Assemble" in Koto's iso and you'll see.

[Raya36]

Probably won't be back online until later tonight. Please yell at me if I am because that means I'm procrastinating which I can't afford to do.

[Raya36]

Jotting down that I did indeed spot Raya online just now, and calling her out on it, like she said to do.

Lol, you caught me. I need to stop doing this to myself... More from me later tonight maybe.

[Raya36]

At minimum, I am that VT.

How is this town oriented to say?

[Raya36]

There was still doubt and scum still might have nked you instead of a mason/monk.

Seems more scum oriented than anything to me. You're widely townread and you're bringing up the idea of a massclaim. Of course if you were scum in this situation you'd want to get your VT claim out even before the mc if there is one. It'd make you seem even more town.

[Raya36]

I understand it's mylo and I get that we can't afford a mislynch and I'm not against a massclaim. I'm just considering you setting this massclaim up to make yourself look better.

[Raya36]

I understand it's mylo and I get that we can't afford a mislynch and I'm not against a massclaim. I'm just considering you setting this massclaim up to make yourself look better.

What benefit is there in scum claiming first?

And if you think it's "towncred"

What kind of townie townreads someone for being the first to claim VT?

Makes you sound more confident and therefore honest.

I'm probably just being paranoid though.

I knew I'd be wifoming the heck out of you still being alive.

[Raya36]

Hey guys. Just a quick update. I'm on my way home tomorrow morning and will be able to end my v/la tomorrow night.

[Raya36]

Intent to hammer Dave when I get home. Long drive though

[Raya36]

I'm honestly leaning towards it being Jay right now. Nothing about Math seems scum oriented to me and the only things making me second guess this is the fact that Math is still alive despite being so active all game and how Jay also seems fairly town.

Also Jay, really sorry about not using the PT to its fullest. I had a busy last few days with starting up the new semester and stuff.

[Raya36]

Yeah, pretty much got it

[Raya36]

I mean, going after me the way she did in D2/D3 gets her shot if I'm actually scum. So if she legitimately believed I was a wolf, no; tis better to hardpush me than randomly discredit me.

To answer this I did think you could be the wolf. The main reason I was looking into you so much was because of the same reason I'm second guessing myself right now, you're still alive.

[Raya36]

Well played Jay

You had be convinced for a while. (Although I called you at the end)
Why did you never end up shooting Math though. He seemed like an obvious target.

[Raya36]

Because you saw what happened. Everyone kept questioning "Why the heck is Dino alive right now?". Any thing I did that COULD have drawn attention to me was nullified by him just existing. You saw how literally nobody even thought it was me Day 4.

You definitely got me there.

Raya if you had him called at the end why didn't you argue for it lol

I had already posted my stance but the reason I never made an argument was because I wanted to take the time to really explain where I got my read which meant I would have to dive into their iso which would not have been a quick job. I didn't want to just post something weak since that would have definitely backfired and gotten myself lynched.

[Raya36]

I'm honestly leaning towards it being Jay right now. Nothing about Math seems scum oriented to me and the only things making me second guess this is the fact that Math is still alive despite being so active all game and how Jay also seems fairly town.

Also Jay, really sorry about not using the PT to its fullest. I had a busy last few days with starting up the new semester and stuff.

I mean, going after me the way she did in D2/D3 gets her shot if I'm actually scum. So if she legitimately believed I was a wolf, no; tis better to hardpush me than randomly discredit me.

To answer this I did think you could be the wolf. The main reason I was looking into you so much was because of the same reason I'm second guessing myself right now, you're still alive.

You never made indication that you were going to make an argument eventually. Just seemed like you came to a conclusion but were still keeping your options open.

I would've given you time if you wanted it

Yeah, in hindsight I could have easily improved my game a lot.