Open 704: Switch (Game Over)


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Post Post #14 (isolation #0) » Thu Dec 21, 2017 3:58 am

Post by Sauce »

VOTE: Maxous

Not going to sheep Not_Mafia
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Post Post #15 (isolation #1) » Thu Dec 21, 2017 3:59 am

Post by Sauce »

VOTE: Maxous

Not sheeping Not_Mafia
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Post Post #16 (isolation #2) » Thu Dec 21, 2017 4:00 am

Post by Sauce »

Hmmm

:giggle:
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Post Post #35 (isolation #3) » Thu Dec 21, 2017 10:04 am

Post by Sauce »

What does you asking about what that line of inquiry has to do with scum hunting have to do with scum hunting?
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Post Post #37 (isolation #4) » Thu Dec 21, 2017 10:09 am

Post by Sauce »

I don't speak dinosaur.
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Post Post #38 (isolation #5) » Thu Dec 21, 2017 10:09 am

Post by Sauce »

Can you express it in a formula?
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Post Post #40 (isolation #6) » Thu Dec 21, 2017 10:13 am

Post by Sauce »

I guess what I was going to ask was what does you asking what something that doesn't have anything to do with scumhunting has to do with scumhunting have to do with scumhunting?

What would your problem with that line of inquiry be, hypothetically speaking?
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Post Post #54 (isolation #7) » Fri Dec 22, 2017 3:38 am

Post by Sauce »

Oh. I thought it didn't have anything to do with scumhunting, and found it odd for him to ask what it did, and vote like based on that.
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Post Post #68 (isolation #8) » Fri Dec 22, 2017 7:35 am

Post by Sauce »

In post 67, Mathdino wrote:But I think Bins is a better wagon
.. because you think the formation of the wagon she contributed to on page 2 is lynch bait.
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Post Post #71 (isolation #9) » Fri Dec 22, 2017 7:46 am

Post by Sauce »

I mean .. I'm getting confused as a consequence of reading what you're apparently thinking, Dinomath. That's why I'm not making any sense anymore. It's obviously your fault I'm mixing up Bins with Elmo. How can a two-vote wagon on page 2 be lynch bait? How does one think like that?
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Post Post #72 (isolation #10) » Fri Dec 22, 2017 7:48 am

Post by Sauce »

My judgement is impaired, therefore any reads I might have at this time need reconsidering, and don't warrant being made public.
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Post Post #74 (isolation #11) » Fri Dec 22, 2017 7:53 am

Post by Sauce »

Anyway the mutantdevle is a wagon I imagine scum would join at the time Maxous did, so I like my vote there.
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Post Post #91 (isolation #12) » Sat Dec 23, 2017 2:37 am

Post by Sauce »

What's town about it?
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Post Post #92 (isolation #13) » Sat Dec 23, 2017 2:40 am

Post by Sauce »

I don't think that was a legit scumslip, but I don't think that was a townie post either.
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Post Post #101 (isolation #14) » Sat Dec 23, 2017 7:24 am

Post by Sauce »

Not_Mafia what do you think of Bins? Is she anything like in the game you modded?
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Post Post #131 (isolation #15) » Sat Dec 23, 2017 12:02 pm

Post by Sauce »

In post 130, Maxous wrote: i'm not convinced she's town but mutant is the first solid scumtell i have here so far

i'm leaning towards an A50 town-read.
i'm actually not convinced on Math being town despite how vocal and aggressive he's being tbh
Starting sentences with i often seems to be a scumtell for you.
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Post Post #156 (isolation #16) » Mon Dec 25, 2017 10:50 am

Post by Sauce »

Merry Christmas

I have a gift for you.
Spoiler: Unwrap Gift
Sauce:
Not_Mafia
,
Mathdino

Not_Mafia:
havingfitz
,
Bins
,
Elmo TeH AzN

@@ mutantdevle:
Elmo TeH AzN
,
Mathdino
,
Maxous
, Elmo TeH AzN, Maxous
@@ Maxous: Lalendra, Sauce
Mathdino:
mutandevle

@ Elmo TeH AzN:
Mathdino
, Bins,
Raya36

@ havingfitz:
Almost50
, Chip Butty
@@ Bins: Mathdino,
Maxous
, Almost50
@ Raya36: Not_Mafia

It's a votecount with links. Hooray!
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Post Post #183 (isolation #17) » Wed Dec 27, 2017 5:20 am

Post by Sauce »

Let's not think about the hammer yet. We haven't had a decent wagon, which says a lot about this game. Usually town wants to have wagons, but for reasons possibly spanning from being confident with voting elsewhere - to not caring enough about stacking pressure to change a vote - to townies acting like mafia none of the wagons made it past 3 votes.

I'm not confident in Maxous being scum but I want to find out and it would be interesting to see how he reacts to a couple of more votes. Maybe the fact that he's talking about hammers can be attributed to the two votes that are on him, in which case the pressure, albeit modest, has an effect which is a good thing, regardless of his alignment, as he'll be more likely to scum or townslip.

Female block:

Lalendra - is doing the bare minimum to keep the wagon afloat. It is most uncertain whether this is town or scum motivated. My read on her is independent of the posts others have expressed were alignment indicative. Instead I rely solely on whether she keeps up the pressure on Maxous, not at all, or actively maintains an equilibrium somewhere in the middle.

Bins - is not exhibiting any scumhunting, just calm and respectful defense, which doesn't appear to ever lead to finding out the game. But who is scumhunting? Are those who include a superficial read list in their post, then hassle others for reads more likely to be scum or town? How does one do something beneficial to winning the game as town? There are various ways I suppose and Bins is not exactly exhibiting signs thereof. Now that I've called her out on this I'm interested in whether she will or what.

Raya - what others will think of what she'll post next is what's interesting about Raya, rather than what she'll post next. This
might be scum
indicative, and I'll have to make up my mind soon. I wish I could think of some other context to associate her to the parts of this game that I find more interesting and thus alignment indicative. I trust that if she's town she'll come out of her shell and help me help her help me get a read on her.

Elmo - is unique in that she's actively forging a shell, an image of how she ought to be perceived, instead of just letting the raw nature of interaction flow freely. I seem to think she tries to be controlling of how people approach her posts, sort of a wrapping them in instructions, by placing pointers compelling them not to overlook how she does what she does, and I therefore believe she is too shy to let the actions of her posts speak for themselves. Maybe it's because she's aware that they lack the power to be interpreted as townie, and that would be ok since there hasn't been a lot to go by to warrant interesting reactions. However if I'd look for
one scum between all 4 female players
, I'd say
Elmo
right now, because she stands out.

Male block:

Leaning
Scum on Math and Almost
. I'd hate to be in the way of them getting universally townread if they are town, but I don't see their posts amounting to more than pseudo scumhunting. They are reluctant to contribute to a good wagon, i.e. Bins' is not a good wagon, because all it will amount to is either more defense or not more defense.

havingfitz - Leaning Scum, doesn't vote

Chip Butty - Scum, is throwing away his vote

Maxous - Scum, is voting mutant but seemingly only to make him notice that they're willing to vote me. Likely bussing and always intended to get off once too much pressure builds up. Would explain why none of the other wagons get traction, i.e. scum are busy exhibiting distancing.

mutant - Scum, mutant, Maxous and some others have made slimy, slithering attempts to express scum leans on me. I don't appreciate that at all, and what I mean by that is instead of offering reasons they simply chose to make it look like it's obvious why I should be considered a lynch candidate. This leaves one with nothing to go by when attempting a defensive maneuver, nor does it contribute to communication. Which means they don't mean to find out more about my alignment.

I advise everyone not to interpret their lack of scumhunting as town incompetence, but
scum malice
instead, and join me on the offensive on Maxous, as he seems to be the more experienced of the two. His general closing-oriented approach to this game needs further investigation via pressure.

Not_mafia - Scum

If the general scumhunting quality of the game improves so will my reads on most of you.
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Post Post #199 (isolation #18) » Wed Dec 27, 2017 7:23 am

Post by Sauce »

In post 195, mutantdevle wrote:
In post 191, Mathdino wrote:i don't know much about SK hunting but this reads a LOT like SK
I'm inclined to agree. It makes sense that a SK would scum read everyone since they know that every single person in the game is against them.

Regardless, even if they are not the SK, scum reading everyone (or near enough to it) is in itself rather scummy.
It is only now that I can sympathize with Elmo's vote on you. If she would've had a compelling reason then, like propelling idiotic theories to make them seem to have more merit, as in what you're doing now, she would've had a legit reason to vote. However, she didn't, which is why I think she's the summiest female player atm. It's just something scum would do to a townie as an alternative to lurking. But here I'm not to sure, so I wouldn't change my vote on Maxous for this.

It looks like more of a getting a rise out of a stranger on the internet kind of post, rather than tactical scumplay. Same with Mathdino 'the incinerathor'
In post 191, Mathdino wrote:i wouldn't even engage with him at this point

i want to respond in full but it would look like a wall of incinerating basically every sentence

Sauce, player to player, here's some advice on not being shit:
1. Your reads list literally pegs everyone as scum.
2. Who the fuck separates reads lists into male and female, are you a red piller or something, does this seriously change your reads?
i'm not sure if you're actually sexist but a lot of the game is gonna lowkey think you are now
3. Your reads are absolute shit and basically backwards.
4. Half your reads are based off pre-flip associatives when you don't even know anyone's alignments.
5. You shit on everyone for not wagoning when you literally ask people for votes on someone you're not sure about as a reaction test.
hint: you don't reaction test people by saying "how will you react to this?"
6. You seem to think "scumhunting quality" (which is obviously subjective given that you think everyone is shit but you) is indicative of alignment.

yeah i'm done i'm just gonna ignore your post

i don't know much about SK hunting but this reads a LOT like SK
so i guess what i'm saying is mafia should shoot them for acting like SK and being lowkey sexist
Stop imagining things and spare me that most abhorrible of ways of engaging a "fellow player", would be my advice. Your trying to start a flame war with me will not compel me to townread you, because what kind of a player would I be if it would?

While you might imagine yourself incinerating sentences ... :giggle: .. :lol: .. :) .. all I'm getting is a mafia try-hard trying to look emotional to underline something that has nothing to do with me. I could ask you to tell me if you see divine prophecies of doom and enlightenment in a Rorschach spot or just a vagina like everyone else, but I don't care. Your wannabe reverse psychology trick won't end in me ignoring
your
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Post Post #203 (isolation #19) » Wed Dec 27, 2017 7:38 am

Post by Sauce »

In post 201, Mathdino wrote:
In post 199, Sauce wrote:Stop imagining things and spare me that most abhorrible of ways of engaging a "fellow player", would be my advice. Your trying to start a flame war with me will not compel me to townread you, because what kind of a player would I be if it would?

While you might imagine yourself incinerating sentences ... .. .. .. all I'm getting is a mafia try-hard trying to look emotional to underline something that has nothing to do with me. I could ask you to tell me if you see divine prophecies of doom and enlightenment in a Rorschach spot or just a vagina like everyone else, but I don't care. Your wannabe reverse psychology trick won't end in me ignoring your posts either.
what the actual fuck

is it even possible to be this much of a prick

did a child write this

i'm in awe
You imagine me being sexist based on me grouping my reads into male and female players, and then you shit words all around that, is all that needs to be said about your post. Don't call me a child or a lylo-liability, and stop being a bastard.
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Post Post #239 (isolation #20) » Thu Dec 28, 2017 5:36 am

Post by Sauce »

In post 235, Lalendra wrote:Again, because that bullet point is all about me putting "pressure" on Maxous, which I was not doing at any point.

"Bare minimum to keep the wagon afloat" - clearly keeping the wagon afloat was not my intention, I placed an RVS vote and just never bothered moving it because
I generally don't change my votes unless we're close to lynch
(Maxous isn't) or I find a better target (I haven't yet).
I can think of exactly one townie reason for such a reluctance to change votes, and a bunch of anti-town reasons, but the town reason is pretty good: If you random vote and don't change votes until close to lynch, and furthermore say that this is normal for you then there's a high chance of a townie asking you why in a constructive criticism kind of way. Upon which you can get a townread on that person. Do you have a townread on me, because if not I will vote you.
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Post Post #249 (isolation #21) » Thu Dec 28, 2017 6:26 am

Post by Sauce »

I'm not impressed by the Raya wagon. I see Almost and Math abandoning their Bins push for something that looks like Raya voting Not_Mafia, and the subsequent omgus vote from N_M (although he voted Raya earlier). Why would this inspire more votes on Raya than any one of them could've tried to gathered by staying on Bins? or moving on to any other player who already had one vote (assuming they are town and want there to be a decent wagon with a lot of traction which is in town's interest). Why is Raya of all people scummier than Maxous for example? And apparently Not_Mafia is sheepworthy, go figure that out.

It should be noted that Chip, Almost and Lalendra haven't been voted yet, and mutant's vote on Mathdino was a short-lived RV. If we are going to attempt to apply the template of scum are likely to interact less with their buddies and stay clear of bussing, then we can assume that these 4 have a higher chance of being scum.

Now if Lalendra's vote on Maxous was an RV and she didn't change it because of a playstyle idiosyncrasy, then I have been the only one at least semi-seriously voting for Maxous as opposed to anyone else for quite some time before fitz recently added his vote after a long abstinence following a RV on Not_Mafia..

What I'm saying is I know I'm town (and if you have even an ever-so-slight townread on me you're with me on this), and if what Lalendra is saying is true and/or she is town as well then Maxous has not been bussed for all this time and should be included in that category: Chip, Almost, Lalendra, Mathdino and more or less Maxous.

One could argue that I have only had a fugitive random vote by Not_Mafia on me until Lalendra voted me, but multiple people have expressed the desire to lynch me, not so much the 5 I've mentioned, which is why you shouldn't include me in that list.

I for one, when I think of especially these names, don't have any reason to regard them as town, so I think I've made up my mind to push in this direction today.
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Post Post #253 (isolation #22) » Thu Dec 28, 2017 6:46 am

Post by Sauce »

Yes you do.
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Post Post #258 (isolation #23) » Thu Dec 28, 2017 7:13 am

Post by Sauce »

In post 256, Almost50 wrote:
In post 239, Sauce wrote:Do you have a townread on me, because if not I will vote you.
All was going well until I read ^this^
The quoted could've been stated in so many way that are not as scummy. You could've asked for her reads and then explained why you were voting her if she's not TRing you. or you could've stopped right there without attaching this quote to the post. I'm having a hard time trying to parse the necessity for you to put it this way, and I'm not sure how I should be feeling about it either.
Alright this is really scummy. Why would a townie be less blunt with his or her affirmations than scum. Slimey, slithering scum would try to sugarcoat this to make it look less intimidating or whatever. I'm making pushing for your lynch a priority.
In post 250, Bins wrote:If Almost/Math are scumteam they are playing very well but ehhhhh.
Good question nr 1: Did Almost not say that he wasn't scumreading Raya?

Good question nr 2: Would someone like Math be really silent in the scum chat, or would he go flamboyant with plans to con town into thinking him and another buddy cannot be scum together because their behavior is too tightly linked?

I think awkward moments like Math calling a two-vote-strong random vote wagon from page 2 lynchbait, or sweettalking Raya about what a delightful player she is might be amounting due to forced interaction upon having decided to be overly active, and/or even work together a lot.

Again, I don't see any reason to divert my attention away from
Lalendra, Chip, Maxous, Math and Almost
. I know it would be hard to get a lynch on Math going today but not only would it be likely in my mind that he'd flip scum, it would also be really awesome if we as town could be vigilant and bold enough to punish such flamboyant scum before he can choke us to death in lylo.
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Post Post #293 (isolation #24) » Thu Dec 28, 2017 10:06 am

Post by Sauce »

In post 272, Lalendra wrote:Considering I was already scumreading Fitz and Sauce, I am probably not the best person to answer your question. But I'm glad I'm not the only one who sees it.

I would like to lynch confscum (I believe Math's claim and am willing to sheep someone I consider to be reliable town PR), but understand that it would be better to wait and see how much info we can get. Weird that all three went silent after Math's proclamation (aside from Fitz's single half-hearted retort) but could be coincidence. I'm hesitant to say we have it figured out but this is a good start.

tl;dr I'm down with voting Fitz, Sauce or Bins, don't particularly care in what order.
What are you doing? You're just adding me and fitz to Bins and say let's lynch here?
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Post Post #295 (isolation #25) » Thu Dec 28, 2017 10:09 am

Post by Sauce »

Cardinal information is revealed and Lalendra just goes like meh, I'll add my previously stated scumreads to that and I'm good, derp.
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Post Post #297 (isolation #26) » Thu Dec 28, 2017 10:13 am

Post by Sauce »

In post 296, Mathdino wrote:Sauce please reevaluate your entire game trajectory if you're gonna post. Where do you stand now?
I can't right now, reevaluate anything. I just know I wouldn't post like nothing happened to my previous reads if I were Lalendra town.
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Post Post #298 (isolation #27) » Thu Dec 28, 2017 10:15 am

Post by Sauce »

Maybe she believes your sexism bullshit and doesn't care about the game just lynching the sexist.
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Post Post #301 (isolation #28) » Thu Dec 28, 2017 10:35 am

Post by Sauce »

I don't like how Not_Mafia ignored my #101 post
In post 101, Sauce wrote:Not_Mafia what do you think of Bins? Is she anything like in the game you modded?
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Post Post #304 (isolation #29) » Thu Dec 28, 2017 10:42 am

Post by Sauce »

Almost50 definitely looks better now, unless he somehow suspected that Bins has been checked, but that would be paranoia, regardless how it turned out to be true.

mutant and Elmo not so much.

Here's an updated version of the linked votecount up until #260 from page 11

@ Sauce:
Not_Mafia
,
Mathdino
,Lalendra
Not_Mafia:
havingfitz
,
Bins
,
Elmo TeH AzN
,
Raya36

@@ mutantdevle:
Elmo TeH AzN
,
Mathdino
,
Maxous
,Elmo TeH AzN,Maxous,
Not_Mafia

@@ Maxous:
Lalendra
, Sauce,havingfitz
Mathdino:
mutandevle

@ Elmo TeH AzN:
Mathdino
, Bins,
Raya36

@ havingfitz:
Almost50
, Chip Butty
Bins:
Mathdino
,
Maxous
,
Almost50

@@@@ Raya36:
Not_Mafia
,Not_Mafia,Mathdino,Almost50,Bins
@ Chip Butty: Raya36

Maxous' short-lived vote on Bins looks bad.
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Post Post #305 (isolation #30) » Thu Dec 28, 2017 10:44 am

Post by Sauce »

In post 130, Maxous wrote:I should of stuck with my first vote

VOTE: mutantdevle

he ignored giving any reads or analysis and popped in just to talk theory.

Bins did not "scumslip"
i'm not convinced she's town but mutant is the first solid scumtell i have here so far

i'm leaning towards an A50 town-read.
i'm actually not convinced on Math being town despite how vocal and aggressive he's being tbh
So he's voting Bins, but someone says she scumslipped and he immediately 180s his read and defends her.
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Post Post #306 (isolation #31) » Thu Dec 28, 2017 10:46 am

Post by Sauce »

In post 302, Lalendra wrote:
In post 293, Sauce wrote:What are you doing? You're just adding me and fitz to Bins and say let's lynch here?
Nice try, but if you re-read, the progression is pretty clear. In , I voted you for manufactured reads and tryharding. Fitz defended you in , to which I responded in , and , making it pretty clear that I didn't buy his reasons for doing so. Math, who I had been townreading since early game (see ), hardclaimed a guilty on Bins, which I am inclined to believe. So if you want to say I'm "just adding you and fitz to Bins," when in reality I scumread both of you BEFORE Math brought up his Bins result, that's kind of a blatant misrep.
I'm accusing you of not reevaluating your scumreads, not that you read us as scum before Math claimed.
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Post Post #307 (isolation #32) » Thu Dec 28, 2017 10:47 am

Post by Sauce »

or whatever it is you said.
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Post Post #309 (isolation #33) » Thu Dec 28, 2017 10:53 am

Post by Sauce »

I didn't think she scumslipped either. But if my vote would've been on her I would've welcomed the occasion of someone else pressuring her if I was at all curious about her slot, as my vote would indicate.
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Post Post #313 (isolation #34) » Thu Dec 28, 2017 11:37 am

Post by Sauce »

In post 310, Maxous wrote:I'm not gonna lie and agree about a 'scumslip' I don't agree with it.
That's tunneling at best.
Well now, turns out she was scum and you missed the chance to tunnel her, or at least form a half-decent wagon even though you had support from two of the most active players in the game. Instead you chose to scumread one and townread the other, as if to divide and conquer, and place your vote back where it initially was even though that wagon lost support, and only Elmo and you remained. And that's where your vote has been for the past 200ish posts.

BORING!

Either you are the most unlucky and uninspired and boring townie, or you willingly stepped off your scumbuddy and tried to make that wagon as unattractive as possible by attacking the soft spot of Math's offensive on her.
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Post Post #318 (isolation #35) » Thu Dec 28, 2017 12:02 pm

Post by Sauce »

In post 315, Mathdino wrote:Guilty. Could be SK but Bins's scumslip and (seemingly genuine) complete misunderstanding of how SK works indicates mafia to me.
It's not hard to read the setup. Every time someone exhibits ignorance about such trivial and easy-to-lookup stuff a puppy and a kitten somewhere start crying, or does that only happen when scum gets voted, Maxous, hmm?
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Post Post #323 (isolation #36) » Thu Dec 28, 2017 12:23 pm

Post by Sauce »

In post 319, Mathdino wrote:
In post 318, Sauce wrote:
In post 315, Mathdino wrote:Guilty. Could be SK but Bins's scumslip and (seemingly genuine) complete misunderstanding of how SK works indicates mafia to me.
It's not hard to read the setup. Every time someone exhibits ignorance about such trivial and easy-to-lookup stuff a puppy and a kitten somewhere start crying, or does that only happen when scum gets voted, Maxous, hmm?
To be fair, the setup wording is fairly confusing and took me a few takes to decipher. A lot of people seemed to misunderstand it. Are you saying mutant was faking the misunderstanding too?
I wouldn't take setup ignorance into consideration when forming reads, nor would I enjoy reading posts centered around it. It's literally the worst thing that can happen in mafia games for me, when I decided for myself to make that investment and inform myself of every intricacy, sooner or later upon encountering the necessity to do so, and someone else doesn't, and wastes game thread space inquiring, instead. I feel cheated. Is my time less valuable than that of others? I feel forsaken when others don't meat a minimum standard like that. I hate it I hate it I hate it oh so much

Lol Bins
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Post Post #339 (isolation #37) » Thu Dec 28, 2017 12:58 pm

Post by Sauce »

Hear hear
In post 328, Bins wrote:I intend to be leashed if you want me to
Image

Naughty
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Post Post #340 (isolation #38) » Thu Dec 28, 2017 1:01 pm

Post by Sauce »

I mean we don't need to speedlynch.
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Post Post #342 (isolation #39) » Thu Dec 28, 2017 1:01 pm

Post by Sauce »

But Maxous is probscum
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Post Post #419 (isolation #40) » Fri Dec 29, 2017 3:36 am

Post by Sauce »

As much as I'd like to leash sexy Bins, fact is the probability of her being mafia as opposed to SK is 75%.

And that's the only solid thing worthy of being posted with regards to today's lynch. Everything else is a poor surrogate for scumhutning at this point.
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Post Post #455 (isolation #41) » Fri Dec 29, 2017 7:23 am

Post by Sauce »

In post 445, Mathdino wrote:this game has stalled until that lynch tbh

i'd be entirely okay with a quickhammer

someone vote her so Not_Mafia lolhammers
We could do that, or we could profit from you being alive some more.

Considering Bins didn't own up to a kill I'm pretty sure she's mafia, because why would the SK hold back on that info. So we should maybe allocate two more days before we end this dayphase.
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Post Post #456 (isolation #42) » Fri Dec 29, 2017 7:30 am

Post by Sauce »

In post 452, Equinox wrote:
Vote Count 1.15Bins (6) - Almost50, Mathdino, mutantdevle, [goes here], Lalendra, havingfitz,
Not_Mafia

havingfitz (2) - Chip Butty, Raya36
mutantdevle (2) - Elmo TeH AzN, Maxous
Maxous (1) - Sauce
Raya36 (1) - Bins

Not Voting (0)


With 12 votes, it will take 7 to reach majority.

The deadline is Thursday, January 4, 2018, at 8:00 AM EST (UTC-5), which is in (expired on 2018-01-04 08:00:00).

Moderator CommentsElmo TeH AzN is on V/LA from December 24 to 30.
havingfitz is on V/LA from December 29 to January 3.
N_M voted just before Lalendra did, and never unvoted
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Post Post #465 (isolation #43) » Fri Dec 29, 2017 9:50 am

Post by Sauce »

In post 134, Chip Butty wrote:First complete readthrough: A50 is town. MD is 70% town. Bins is 70% scum. Mutant could well be SK. Lots of boring setup talk, to which I will now add my two cent's worth:

If I knew right now who the SK is, I would lynch them without a second thought. Even if it is in their interests to work with town for now, they're still more likely to shoot town than scum. We're looking at potentially 3 deaths per day/night cycle, and could lose real quick.

More reads soonish, I hope.
Calls Bins scum but lingers on his first vote

Makes 6 prod-doge-style posts, the last of which states his vote on fitz is bad. All this time he doesn't support Math and Almost.
In post 219, Chip Butty wrote:@MD: Is there anything much other than meta behind your Raya vote?

@A50: Is there really enough to be sheeping MD?

I'm not necessariky disagreeing, but her ISO doesn't look terrible, given the tine6of year.
When they finally switch to Raya it finally piques his interest.

This points towards a Bins, Chip, Maxous scumteam. I think we got very very lucky with Math's investigation, and now we need to capitalize on the information we got from Math's subsequent behavior. Chip posted 6 times and did nothing to further the pressure on who he expressed a "70% scum" probability on, and no other scumreads posted, probably because Maxous had already voted Bins, and a double buss would've been unnecessarily cumbersome to transition out of.
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Post Post #466 (isolation #44) » Fri Dec 29, 2017 9:51 am

Post by Sauce »

EBWOP: especially for a lurker
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Post Post #467 (isolation #45) » Fri Dec 29, 2017 10:16 am

Post by Sauce »

Even if Bins flips SK it doesn't clear them, because these are mainly information tells as opposed to associative tells. They didn't think to use the occasion to investigate Bins further because they didn't care. Either of them could be SK if Bins is mafia, too, because however interested mafia or SK might be to find each other it sure isn't the same as a townie who has nothing to go by and a win condition urging the townie to scumhunt right away.
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Post Post #505 (isolation #46) » Sun Dec 31, 2017 4:00 pm

Post by Sauce »

Cop switch was the most valuable scum role. Consequently Almost50 is probably town or sk.

There's no reason to town/sk read Maxous' vote and Chip's 1-time-70%-scum read on Bins.

Everyone who townread Math and Almost but didn't participate in pressuring Bins are likelier to be scum.
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Post Post #507 (isolation #47) » Sun Dec 31, 2017 4:24 pm

Post by Sauce »

Read through Almost's ISO and nvm
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Post Post #512 (isolation #48) » Sun Dec 31, 2017 5:21 pm

Post by Sauce »

@ Sauce:
Not_Mafia
,
Mathdino
,
Lalendra

Not_Mafia:
havingfitz
,
Bins
,
Elmo TeH AzN
,
Raya36

@@ mutantdevle:
Elmo TeH AzN
,
Mathdino
,
Maxous
,Elmo TeH AzN,Maxous,
Not_Mafia

@@ Maxous:
Lalendra
,Sauce,havingfitz
Mathdino
:
mutandevle

@ Elmo TeH AzN:
Mathdino
,
Bins
,
Raya36

@ havingfitz:
Almost50
,Chip Butty
Bins
:
Mathdino
,
Maxous
,
Almost50

@@@@
Raya36
:
Not_Mafia
,Not_Mafia,
Mathdino
,Almost50,
Bins

@ Chip Butty:
Raya36


Last relevant Day 1 vote state
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Post Post #513 (isolation #49) » Sun Dec 31, 2017 5:27 pm

Post by Sauce »

I'm pretty sure the vig killed Raya, mafia killed Math and the sk killed Lalendra.
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Post Post #514 (isolation #50) » Sun Dec 31, 2017 5:28 pm

Post by Sauce »

no wait. the vig killed Lalendra and the sk killed Raya. Unless the vig thought Bins would bus Raya like that
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Post Post #515 (isolation #51) » Sun Dec 31, 2017 5:31 pm

Post by Sauce »

VOTE: havingfitz
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Post Post #524 (isolation #52) » Mon Jan 01, 2018 8:11 am

Post by Sauce »

Since the Mafia didn't know whether the SK was NK or cop/vig immune, they must've felt compelled to shoot the cop. A clever SK, regardless of chosen immunity, would've known this, and would've felt free to dispose of threats.

Raya was actively contributing to the game, and flipped scum had voted her, so a clever SK would've anticipated that Raya would not have been in today's lynching pool.

Who benefits the most from Raya's death?
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Post Post #532 (isolation #53) » Mon Jan 01, 2018 10:28 am

Post by Sauce »

In post 529, Almost50 wrote:I hard TR N_M
Now or day1?
In post 526, mutantdevle wrote:My second post was realising that ofc Raya was shot by the vig since Lalendra was heavily considered town and Raya was considered scum. This is also something that I did not fully process at the time due to tiredness.
Did you factor in Bins' vote on Raya, and the fact that those townreads on Lalendra were due to a couple of early post addressing random votes mostly?
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Post Post #535 (isolation #54) » Mon Jan 01, 2018 10:34 am

Post by Sauce »

It's not in the interest of town to propagate the discussion Almost50 has been busy inciting.
In post 527, Almost50 wrote:This all looks good .. UNTIL we get to Lalendra. If the Mafia shot the Cop and the SK shot Raya then the Vig shot Lalendra, and I don't see a Town Vig shooting Lalendra over most anyone else.
Is this going to amount in scumhunting soon or will it linger on as vig hunting?
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Post Post #539 (isolation #55) » Mon Jan 01, 2018 10:37 am

Post by Sauce »

In post 536, Almost50 wrote:
In post 532, Sauce wrote:
In post 529, Almost50 wrote:I hard TR N_M
Now or day1?
Since he tried to provide some cover for Mathdino after the latter hard claimed Cop.
:giggle:

you can't be serious.
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Post Post #547 (isolation #56) » Mon Jan 01, 2018 10:59 am

Post by Sauce »

In post 544, Almost50 wrote:
In post 535, Sauce wrote:It's not in the interest of town to propagate the discussion Almost50 has been busy inciting.
In post 527, Almost50 wrote:This all looks good .. UNTIL we get to Lalendra. If the Mafia shot the Cop and the SK shot Raya then the Vig shot Lalendra, and I don't see a Town Vig shooting Lalendra over most anyone else.
Is this going to amount in scumhunting soon or will it linger on as vig hunting?
You're reading but you're not paying attention, are you?

I believe you are Town. I believe N_M is Town. I believe Elmo is Town.

One of Chip/mutant is MAFIA. The other could either be Town or the SK.

Maxous/fitz also have one Mafia in them. The other could be the SK or a Townie.

Ho much more details do you want my read list to be? Maybe I should hack the Mod's account and look at the PMs and come back to report who is whom with 100% accuracy??

What I'm trying to do with my "who shot whom" theories is decide whether it's best to lynch Mafia or the SK first, based on whether the SK is immune to the Vig or the Mafia shot. If they're immune to Mafia then the main threat to them is the Vig, so are more likely to shoot TOWN. If they're immune to the Vig shot then they'll try their best to hit Mafia tonight. How hard is it for you to see where I'm coming from?
First, I gave you no reason to doubt my comprehension.
Second, nobody except the SK knows which immunity he chose, and there's no advantage to be gained from trying to factor that into contemplation with regard to who the next target will be.
Third. I know who mafia is and I don't know who the SK so for me trying to decide which I'd lynch first is not a meaningful line of thought.

I don't see how a townie would townread N_M, except maybe some sort of tone or meta read which you haven't expressed, and I don't find your methods of searching for mafia very effective, because you're not addressing Bins' posts, nor are you scumhunting independently of that.

What reasons did you have for switching to Raya?

@Chip why is Almost obvtown?
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Post Post #548 (isolation #57) » Mon Jan 01, 2018 11:01 am

Post by Sauce »

Wow, a bunch of "slips" there.
I meant to say I don't know who mafia is and I didn't mean to assume the SK's gender.
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Post Post #561 (isolation #58) » Mon Jan 01, 2018 11:49 am

Post by Sauce »

Don't know but I like the flavor from his game.
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Post Post #562 (isolation #59) » Mon Jan 01, 2018 11:51 am

Post by Sauce »

In post 549, Chip Butty wrote:@Sauce: that's a reasonable question. It's jusy an impression, albeit a strong one.

Nobody voted Lalendra d1, and her vote was on you through several VCs before she jumped on the bins wagon. So you're the strongest living link to her. Comments?
Yes. Start scumhunting lest ye be voted.
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Post Post #564 (isolation #60) » Mon Jan 01, 2018 11:53 am

Post by Sauce »

In post 538, Chip Butty wrote:I think MD was directing the vig to Raya. If SK shot Lalendra, it might be 1. She fakecrumbed earlier or 2. Alternative kills would have pointed back at the SK. I'm leaning toward the latter, as I've never known Lalendra to crumb. Which means let's look at who was anti-Lalendra.
Is there any proof for Math having maintained his scumread on Raya after he claimed?
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Post Post #580 (isolation #61) » Mon Jan 01, 2018 12:43 pm

Post by Sauce »

One thing about me is I write notes to myself. In my first game here I replaced into lylo and was going to post a case on someone who turned out to be scum, but instead I sent it to myself because I couldn't post in the thread. When the issue was dealt with I wound up not posting it anymore, and it cost town the game because I was lynched (mafia could've won the game prior to that but weren't on at the same time -- which was basically why I didn't post the case, because I figured since Nero had already voted Lucky2U they can't both be town, which they were).

Spoiler: What I've PM-ed myself this time
In post 552, Almost50 wrote:So, Bins' readlist + Bins' wagon (but -of course- I'm not factoring bla bla bla..). I hate it when arrogant noob try to teach me how to scum hunt. It is most irritating, really! Vote me if you suspect me, but never ever try to tell me how to play. Disagree with my logic/reads, but don't pretend like you know any better.
You're not making this easier on yourself.
In post 552, Almost50 wrote:
In post 547, Sauce wrote:I gave you no reason to doubt my comprehension.
In post 535, Sauce wrote:Is this going to
amount in scumhunting soon
or will it linger on as vig hunting?
'nough said.
Stop vighunting. Nuff said.
In post 552, Almost50 wrote:@Chip: No it's not because you're not following me. I Said I don't know what it is, but let's try this: If I chose to trust mutant then you are the only possible busing scum on Bins' wagon.
Chip never voted for Bins. Which is essentially the entire scumcase on him, at least mine. I have no idea why others are voting him. Superficially speaking, he had a scumread on Bins and Bins had a scumread on him so that's not exactly scum indicative.
In post 552, Almost50 wrote:@Sauce: I don't have to (nor do I need to) point out everything that goes into my mind. For example, Bins readlist looks like this (after editing out the flipped players):

{Almost50, havingfitz}
----
{mutant, maxous}
N_M is on his own little island floating everywhere
{Sauce}
{Chip, Elmo}
What is this a response to, and I mean it's not .. you're not responding to anything with this, and you're not making it easy on yourself by not responding to things like why you voted Raya, which was my question.
In post 552, Almost50 wrote:One of fitz/mutant/Max is scum + one of you/Chip/Elmo. That's where most scum would place their p's in their manufactured readlists.
The way you express it there's one scum in the group consisting of fitz, mutant and max, and another in me, chip and ETA. Why can't fitz and mutant be scum together, or ETA and me. When did you express the answer to this question, leaving you free to imply it without having to say why? You didn't. It's not my attention, afai can tell.
In post 552, Almost50 wrote:Now, I can't decide between the former 3, but it's easier for me to pick Chip over you/Elmo for a Mafia partner with Bins. The reason why Chip was put down there is because he was also a major suspect on D1, so if flipped it would have given Bins some town cred.
Chip had one vote on him, the very last vote casted right (exactly the post before) Math claimed. Other than that Chip was mostly absent, voting for havingfitz on page 2 and never changing it. Now you're saying 'he's a mafia lurksack and would he have flipped Bins would've received towncred', and it's an interesting argument (one you didn't make prior afaik). The only reason you would've withheld that argument is that you're scum and you're saving good arguments for when an opportunity to further an agenda warrants them.

VOTE: Almost50

I'll make public, but I'll act as if I didn't.
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Post Post #581 (isolation #62) » Mon Jan 01, 2018 12:45 pm

Post by Sauce »

In post 579, mutantdevle wrote:
In post 529, Almost50 wrote:The question is why is your vote not on Chip (or me or N_M if you don't TR one of us)? Or do you believe the whole wagon on Bins was all town??
I'm not voting Chip because I don't see a case on him (You never explained why you are scum reading Chip?). I am not voting you because you are my strongest town read. And I'm not voting N_M because he isn't my strongest scum read. In general, I just don't tend to vote until the second half of each day.

And no one on Bins wagon is AI. She was confirmed scum by the cop. Both townies and scum lords would jump on that.
There's actually a good case with two valid points on Chip. I came up with one of them and Almost50 repeated it very recently, so you should've seen it, and Almost50 came up with the other. The weird thing is neither I nor Almost are voting Chip and yet he has like 4 votes on him, which pretty much means he's town.
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Post Post #582 (isolation #63) » Mon Jan 01, 2018 12:47 pm

Post by Sauce »

Actually only 3 so nvm.
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Post Post #587 (isolation #64) » Mon Jan 01, 2018 12:57 pm

Post by Sauce »

What sensible reason is there to analyze the Bins wagon after Math claimed?
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Post Post #588 (isolation #65) » Mon Jan 01, 2018 12:58 pm

Post by Sauce »

In post 586, mutantdevle wrote:
In post 572, Chip Butty wrote:
In post 551, momo wrote:Guys, the way Chip Butty and MD manipulated yesterday's lynch just makes me believe they are scum together

the way things are going

VOTE: Chip Butty
Momo and Mutant share VI qualities...
In post 573, Chip Butty wrote:Has anyone seen them in the same room together?
Are you actually throwing shade at me over that? And what exactly is it that I am doing that is making you repeatedly refer to me as a VI?
Personally I think you might be a mafia mastermind who methodacts as if he's VI
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Post Post #590 (isolation #66) » Mon Jan 01, 2018 12:59 pm

Post by Sauce »

You're going on about stuff that does not look like trying to find out the game, instead talking for the sake of it.
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Post Post #595 (isolation #67) » Mon Jan 01, 2018 1:06 pm

Post by Sauce »

In post 594, mutantdevle wrote:
In post 592, Almost50 wrote:
In post 580, Sauce wrote:Stop vighunting. Nuff said.
I already know who the VIG is... SIR! Do you also want me to tell you where I got it from??? :facepalm:
When you say that you know who the vig is, do you mean you are the vig or that you have a pretty good idea who it is?
All he's saying is he can't, won't stop vighunting. That's it.
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Post Post #599 (isolation #68) » Mon Jan 01, 2018 2:13 pm

Post by Sauce »

In post 596, Almost50 wrote:This goes on to show how perceptive you are at reading the game. Not only did you miscount the # of votes on Chip, but you also failed to see mine is the second vote on him (and it even shows in the official VC just 3 posts above yours here! AMAZING!).

I'm going to shut off all communication with you as of now though. I don't need this shit. I play to enjoy the game, and I honestly can't stand stupidity.
I'm not glad I provided that insignificant -- unrelated and inconsequential -- little speck of falsehood for you to blow out of proportion, but I did, and now you've waved off everything I said calling it shit -- me stupid and out to hurt your game experience -- in a grand self-pampering gesture. Only a manchild would say: "I play to enjoy the game" in order to insinuate a discrepancy between him and someone else. Guess what, you're obstructing
me
from enjoying the game right now, because I have to spell out what a manchild you are, and it gives me 0 pleasure.

The minute I click submit I'll be ok though, leaving you to ponder what the fuck you vgained by going AtE like that.
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Post Post #600 (isolation #69) » Mon Jan 01, 2018 2:24 pm

Post by Sauce »

Unfortunately I'm also still pondering what made you switch to Raya, and you not doing anything to help me clear up that mystery is not helping is not making it easy to townread you, nor has anyone else convinced me that their townread -- where applicable -- is legit.
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Post Post #603 (isolation #70) » Mon Jan 01, 2018 2:45 pm

Post by Sauce »

Oh you mean the role that had extra information, which most often defines what mafia is.
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Post Post #604 (isolation #71) » Mon Jan 01, 2018 2:47 pm

Post by Sauce »

Yeah I could've entertained the scenario of Math getting a guilty on someone, against all odds. I'm so dumb I didn't, such a bad player indeed.
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Post Post #605 (isolation #72) » Mon Jan 01, 2018 2:48 pm

Post by Sauce »

Such a noob. Oh well. I'm pretty sure the extra information part doesn't apply to you, though.
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Post Post #606 (isolation #73) » Mon Jan 01, 2018 2:48 pm

Post by Sauce »

Not in a good way at least.
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Post Post #626 (isolation #74) » Tue Jan 02, 2018 1:26 am

Post by Sauce »

In post 621, Chip Butty wrote:
In post 289, Mathdino wrote:I've significantly warmed up to the idea of Maxous being scum lately.
Flipped cop read.
In post 622, Chip Butty wrote:
In post 296, Mathdino wrote:
I'm actually feeling pretty sold on fitz being scum over Raya.
Flipped cop read.
In post 623, Chip Butty wrote:
In post 335, Mathdino wrote:Maxous is almost definitely scum then, if he was so adamant that Bins didn't scumslip.
Flipped cop read.
So the answer to
In post 564, Sauce wrote:
In post 538, Chip Butty wrote:I think MD was directing the vig to Raya. If SK shot Lalendra, it might be 1. She fakecrumbed earlier or 2. Alternative kills would have pointed back at the SK. I'm leaning toward the latter, as I've never known Lalendra to crumb. Which means let's look at who was anti-Lalendra.
Is there any proof for Math having maintained his scumread on Raya after he claimed?
is: not really. He transitioned out almost entirely to saying one of Raya and fitz is scum, adding that he's inclined to go with fitz, which means not raya.
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Post Post #629 (isolation #75) » Tue Jan 02, 2018 2:54 am

Post by Sauce »

The degree of the scumreads on fitz's and Maxous' obviously still outweighed the level at which he had expressed for Raya, sarcasm notwithstanding.

Btw, why didn't you vote Bins? 70% seem like pretty decent odds, exaggeration notwithstanding. Townreads on both Math
and
Almost, yet no sheep on either Bins nor Raya. You expressed dissatisfaction with Raya's wagon so it would've made sense for you to try to reanimate the pressure on Bins or even suggest another target. Maxous was on the table. What do you think of Maxous now?
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Post Post #630 (isolation #76) » Tue Jan 02, 2018 2:55 am

Post by Sauce »

English, why have you forsaken me?
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Post Post #632 (isolation #77) » Tue Jan 02, 2018 2:59 am

Post by Sauce »

An Elmo hydra probably
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Post Post #633 (isolation #78) » Tue Jan 02, 2018 3:12 am

Post by Sauce »

@Chip To answer your question regarding who profited the most from Lalendra's death, I'd say fitz. The answer to the question who profited the most from Raya's death is also, imo, fitz.
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Post Post #634 (isolation #79) » Tue Jan 02, 2018 3:16 am

Post by Sauce »

If someone, or even both anti-town factions were trying to set him up, why not at least make it appear as if they were successful?
Unvote: havingfitz


.. for a while.

VOTE: Maxous
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Post Post #635 (isolation #80) » Tue Jan 02, 2018 3:20 am

Post by Sauce »

And by someone, or even both anti-twon factions I mean only the sk.

Unvote: Maxous


VOTE: Chip L-1
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Post Post #636 (isolation #81) » Tue Jan 02, 2018 3:30 am

Post by Sauce »

So .. in reality, the people who had most to gain from Raya's and Lalendra's death are mafia and sk, but sk the most, even if the chosen immunity is vs vig/cop. So which one was
more
profitable to the sk if left alive? Lalendra. She was lylo-liability, which is what SK needs in lylo. Everyone praised Raya's gameplay, so a town raya with solid grip on the game is not what sk wants to have to deal with, especially if they don't have to rely on others' -- like the flipped cop's -- word on it, but instead had experience with Raya.
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Post Post #637 (isolation #82) » Tue Jan 02, 2018 3:37 am

Post by Sauce »

So you might go: "Fascinating, Sauce, good lad, you've don it .. you've cracked the case.".

In which case I'd beg to differ, in a polite and articulate -- although syntactically and semantically error-prone -- fasion. I .. Sir.. have no idea which of you are scumfucks, and which of you are just acting like it. I can see myself voting for anyone of you, still, for shame, on you.
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Post Post #638 (isolation #83) » Tue Jan 02, 2018 3:40 am

Post by Sauce »

And by syntax and semantics I mean typing, which is not what I've said of course, no.

OOhhh no, indeed. :giggle: :lol: :) :] :D :giggle:
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Post Post #640 (isolation #84) » Tue Jan 02, 2018 3:42 am

Post by Sauce »

I'm down for an ETC lynch but I'd prefer the company of the only living female player a while longer.
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Post Post #641 (isolation #85) » Tue Jan 02, 2018 3:43 am

Post by Sauce »

..prefer to savor .. that is :giggle: :lol: :giggle:
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Post Post #642 (isolation #86) » Tue Jan 02, 2018 3:43 am

Post by Sauce »

EBWOP savour
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Post Post #768 (isolation #87) » Thu Jan 11, 2018 8:02 am

Post by Sauce »

Image
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Post Post #781 (isolation #88) » Thu Jan 11, 2018 2:24 pm

Post by Sauce »

Nice win/lose record. You're 50+ in all categories.
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Post Post #782 (isolation #89) » Thu Jan 11, 2018 2:24 pm

Post by Sauce »

EBWOP: percent
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Post Post #787 (isolation #90) » Fri Jan 12, 2018 4:29 am

Post by Sauce »

Someone throw me an authorization to read the scum thread.
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Post Post #792 (isolation #91) » Fri Jan 12, 2018 9:51 am

Post by Sauce »

Do any of you want to team up for Team Mafia 2018 with me?
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Post Post #794 (isolation #92) » Fri Jan 12, 2018 9:54 am

Post by Sauce »

Nope
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Post Post #795 (isolation #93) » Sat Jan 13, 2018 2:15 am

Post by Sauce »

Signups start in (expired on 2018-01-13 12:00:00). Guess I'm gonna /in for the tiebreaker game then.

Am I the only one excluded from access to the mafia topic?
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Post Post #797 (isolation #94) » Sat Jan 13, 2018 2:43 am

Post by Sauce »

3 consecutive mafia lynches and not only does town lose but the mafia topic stays locked? Is there no justice on mafiascum?
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Post Post #799 (isolation #95) » Sun Jan 14, 2018 7:14 am

Post by Sauce »

In post 0, Equinox wrote:
Your Mafia game is acting weirdly, you say? Have you tried switching it off and then on again?


Players


Almost50
MafiaLord1945

Bins

Chip Butty

Elmo TeH AzN

Espeonage
havingfitz
Jodaxq
Lalendra
Mathdino
Maxous
mutantdevle
Not_Mafia
Raya36
Sauce
Odd, how the first 4 players turned out to be the sk and mafia.
Locked

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