Open 708: Pick Your Poison - Game Over

[mozamis]

maybe i am just a sucker for effort, but i am quite liking Hewhoswims catch up posts So:
UNVOTE:
VOTE: Bellaphant

[mozamis]

Town Lean:
Bellaphant - friendly in a town sort of way. Doesn't appear to be deceptive in any way. Genuine.
Moneybags - maybe I'm biased because he townreads me. Probably just gut though. I like his points about other players as well.
HeWhoSwims - seems genuine. Logic follows naturally in a non-deceptive way.
Klick - my initial reaction was more scum leaning, but his interactions (mostly with Bellaphant I think. Not sure of context since I'm looking through ISOs) have been useful and genuine.

Scum Lean:
Flubber - general sentiment, gut. I'm not really sure how to describe what it is that pings my scumdar with him. Maybe just that he comes off as manipulative, trying to run the show and gather towncred. *shrug*
Maxous (slight) - "don't really feel like voting Beefster anymore." switch to Bellaphant vote looks like a garbage reason. Not transparent. He doesn't look particularly deceptive though, so the scum lean is only slight.

Null:
Thor - timing reads are silly. Not too shabby for a first non-RVS wagon though. It generated some productive discussion.
PP - out of game defenses suck, but I honestly don't think they're all that AI now that I think of it. When non-game reasons are used to attack, however...
CultOfAthena - good questions. not much else.
EP - just a check in post. Nothing to go on.
mozamis - eh. I could see it going either way at this point. Hasn't contributed in a particularly helpful way, but isn't outright fluffposting.
texcat - Not enough to go on TBH.

Yup that's everybody. I thought I had more town reads than that for some reason, but then I looked at ISOs and changed my mind on some people.

THIS IS A FUCKING VAGUE LIST - beef off my town list.

[mozamis]

VOTE: Beef
that list...scummy, empty BS.
Bella, Beef, Klick scum team?

[mozamis]

Well, there's seven pages of content, and texcat didn't have much to say about it. The

i have played once with TownTex before, and she was a low poster. So...inactivity NAI for her?

[mozamis]

VOTE: CultOfAthena

Let's try something completely different.

and what the fuck is this anyway? we are a LONG way out of RVS, So much content, so many things if your are town you could talk abotu/vote for. But you vote for no reason?!
Yep, happy with a Beef lynch. Lets go.

[mozamis]

VOTE: maxous

Town leans pls

This looks a bit opportunistic to me.

yeah this could be a good catch. 3rd vote on the wagon, no great reason for it.
town lean Beef,

fos flubber

i retract this. Beef much scummier than Flub.

[HeWhoSwims]

@moz care to elaborate on your townread on Penguin some more? Personally I think the argument that he spent a lot of his posts on the Penguin-Thor interaction holds up, but I'd love to hear some reasons for which Penguin could be town (yes I read 220). I didn't quite get why being slightly annoyed is a towntell though.

I'm not comfortable with this Flubber wagon. This feels misguided and fishy.

Looking into this later today.

Personally my main points for scum!Flubber (although this is not a super solid read thus far) are in 174. Now texcat isn't scot-free either but the bold statement of "Bella votes are pro town" is very eh, considering Bella had 2 posts so far which was like just over 24 hours into the game. (And once again Bella is ~null for me). Flub elaborated on the "make a case" thing but it did feel to me as though it was trying to pass heat onto others.

pedit: I'll trust mozamis if he has experience with tex that activity is NAI for her... but it's of course better to post more nevertheless

[mozamis]

The flubber wagon felt stale at the time, but it seems to be picking up momentum. She's been pinging my scumdar. She feels very methodical/mechanical in her posts.

VOTE: Flubber

I am still suspicious of COA.

then you change your mind under a tiny bit of pressure?!
yep, Beef is scum.

[TesXX]

Prodding PenguinPower

[mozamis]

@Swims -look at that argument Penguin has with tHor. Never once does he dodge the issue. He confronts thor head on, and exchanges punch for punch, no sign of obfuscation.
I just got that feeling he was being out in the open about it. I can't explain it better than that.

[TesXX]

Official Vote Count 1.3

Flubbernugget

(3): texcat, Thor665, Beefster

Maxous

(2): PenguinPower, Bellaphant

PenguinPower

(2): CultOfAthena, Moneybags

Bellaphant

(1): Maxous

Beefster

(1): mozamis

texcat

(1): Flubbernugget

Not Voting

(3): Errantparabola, HeWhoSwims, Klick

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Deadline

: (expired on 2018-01-24 20:00:56)

[Flubbernugget]

232 is a good post

[HeWhoSwims]

I agree that Beef's read list has some reads based on little substance, but then again... it's early. It's certainly a bit iffy. The COA vote is pretty wtf given that there's no explanation at all.

One thing that worried me about Beef is that he was the first to "jump" on Thor after the latter brought up the timing argument which Thor then later said was to get out of RVS.

Some early reads for now.

Max - townlean, for reasons mentioned earlier

COA - townlean, hasn't posted much but 4 of her 5 posts are rich in content, and the other is an RVS vote which caused major discussion.

Moza - townlean, although there are a lot of 1-line posts he's questioning a lot ( = discussion). Not afraid to flip votes, seems to be keeping his mind open, and seems to be scumhunting too (by the PoE he mentioned earlier and this Beef stuff)

Moneybags - town, putting forward a lot of content and questions. Stronger townlean than the three above.

Flub - scumlean, for reasons mentioned earlier.

Beef - scumlean, see the beginning of this post and moz's arguments (although I don't agree with all of them)

Bella - scumlean, as some of her posts are "empty content" to me. 185 bothers me a little bit. I thought I made my opinion on Maxous pretty clear and expressed I wasn't liking the Bella wagon. I feel like 185 could be Bella trying to side a "swing vote" in me, with her. Any thoughts? It's not something I'm pretty set on right now... but it's still there, y'know.

Penguin - bit of a scumlean, as I said the argument COA made earlier holds up.

Leaves at null: ErrantP, texcat, Klick, and Thor, but apparently we need to read Thor as... Thor.

The townreads/leans are the people I really don't want to lynch today. I can live with the null ones except Thor probably. We have a lot of time left though.

[PenguinPower]

Tried to catch up last night, but it’s my sons birthday weekend, and I got distracted. I’ll take a second shot at catching up tonight after he goes to bed, tomorrow morning at the latest.

[HeWhoSwims]

Happy birthday to him then! Family is more important than MS of course

[Moneybags]

I replied to that post in 168.

To clarify my issue - it's the timing for me.
You attacked me in a sideline way.
When asked you stepped back to try to call it a neutral opinion (ignoring that your initial comment was straight up attack) and also then tossed out other thoughts that you didn't opt to share until called on it and then claimed those thoughts were actually similar/identical to your initial call out even though you didn't initially state them at that time.

You're scummy to me now.
If you get a better answer to that issue feel free to toss it out.

EP said they have been sick. Even still they've contributed more than Tex and PP.

Are you calling that scummy?
Are you saying you think EP needs votes?
You're sidelining again.

I really just feel like you're projecting your interpretation of what I was meaning with my beefster remark vs my remark on you. Honestly if I had any way more clear or more "acceptible" to put it I would. Again I'm telling you how I was trying come across and again you're telling me thats now how you saw it. And that's fine, I accept that it didn't come across as I intended. However you refusing to accept my answer does not change anything. I don't have any other answers for you, feel free to interpret it as you wish.

I was actually trying to vouch for EP. I don't think EP needs votes for being sick and attempting to catch up on the game.



Moreso in general, I'd like to clarify that I don't think Tex is scum. I was using them as a reference in that post vs EP. While I don't agree with everything that Tex has said I do think their town. Hearing other people say that they are usually quiet affirms that the quietness isn't a scumtell.

Seeing moz post more makes me feel like they are genuine. Although I have to say I really don't agree with a lot of what they are saying. I feel like Beef continuing to make more radical game play decisions is more of a towntell. I can see he was clearly trying to generate discussion but it was entirely unnecessary. The only alternative I can think of is that he is perhaps trying to detract from a flub lynch by generating controversy.

Also @moz, if PP is town due to him defending himself head on, what does that make flub? He's had a few accusations come out against him and unless I totally missed it I haven't seen him do anything other than adjust his playstile when he was accused of things. For example I mentioned it felt like he was trying to manipulate the game and suddenly he's gone and toned things down a bit.

I'd like to go back and comment around Tex's claim that Flub's vote on her was OMGUS. While I feel like that's a bit of an exaggeration, I find it really interesting that he decided to double down after that in 183. Him picking tex as a target is really interesting to me because her playstyle makes her, to quote myself, low hanging fruit. And to be more precise this time, I think Flub is going for the low hanging fruit, Texcat. And to top it off, as HeWhoSwims points out in 193, it's a really weak argument he has to begin with. It really does feel like OMGUS. You have an easy prey that other people could possibly read as scum, that just happens to be voting for you. It looks really bad to me. I'd like to hear what other people think about this.

[Moneybags]

Ok so after reading HeWhoSwims take on Beef I thought I'd look at his posts in a new light. Keep in mind this is in context with the other two players I currently find the scummiest.

VOTE: thor

Something smells fishy about this interaction and I don't think it's PenguinPower.

-Siding with PP over Thor

VOTE: maxous

Town leans pls

This looks a bit opportunistic to me.

Bella votes are pro town atm

Not sure how I feel about this post. On the one hand, I can see possible scum in Bella, but on the other hand, it looks slightly manipulative.

VOTE: Flubber

Pinging me just a bit stronger than thor.

-Busing Flub?

You're case is built around Penguin's status as a queue moderator. I don't think that's very sportsmanlike and reeks of typical garbage reasons used by scum.

My case has literally nothing to do with his status as queue moderator.
His defense has everything to do with it.
So how is my case built around it exactly?

Turns out I misread. You're absolutely right.

That changes a lot, actually. It basically flips my reads on Thor and PP.

This Flubber v Thor argument makes me more comfortable with my vote.

-180 on pengiun, doesn't want to buss both teammates at once?

VOTE: CultOfAthena

Let's try something completely different.

-Notice he does this right as Flub takes heat for voting Tex. It's soon after 184 where I say "I am personally good with either a PP or Flub lynch today."

VOTE: CultOfAthena

Let's try something completely different.

But why? We have several fairly good leads right now.

The flubber wagon felt stale at the time, but it seems to be picking up momentum. She's been pinging my scumdar. She feels very methodical/mechanical in her posts.

VOTE: Flubber

I am still suspicious of COA.

He does indeed change his mind after it doesn't pan out. But it did distract people, like moz.


Not sure if any of this means anything but here it is.

[Moneybags]

Ok so I don't know about it even being slight OMGUS. However looking at Flub's behavior, I do feel like you have described it accurately. I also feel like toned it down a lot after I called him out for attempting to domineer the game. I'd also like to note that HeWhoSwims made a pass at Flub's 1 liner posts in 164, and it was after this he started contributing more. His behavior feels entirely too self conscious.

When I was writing 240 I felt like there was another bit of evidence in Flub changing his behavior after a callout (besides mine). It was HeWhoSwims', detailed here.

[Flubbernugget]

You're trying to corner moz into scum reading me with a damned if I do, damned if I don't argument.

[Moneybags]

I just thought it strange he didn't go into detail on you when you've done this, and have really flown under the radar about it (in particular).
Also really? Instead of defending yourself you're going to attack me? That's an interesting approach.

[Flubbernugget]

Lol you'd probably scum read me for that too

[Flubbernugget]

Also, I have no clue why you're town reading texcat. Low content meta doesn't cut it. You still have to account for the very little scumhunting in what they had, which was a laughable pocketing accusation.

[texcat]

I'm not comfortable with this Flubber wagon. This feels misguided and fishy.

Looking into this later today.

Ouch. I'm pretty sure Flubber is scum. I'm waiting to see what you find when you look into it.

not entirely sure if it's playstyle or alignment but texcat is a little quiet.
she's only talking about a select few people.

It's definitely my play style.

[texcat]

I don't understand either, but do note that Bella's pockets are roomy and warm.

Also, I have no clue why you're town reading texcat. Low content meta doesn't cut it. You still have to account for the very little scumhunting in what they had, which was a laughable pocketing accusation.

I agree that it was not a super serious accusation. Perhaps that smiley tipped you off?

[Beefster]

VOTE: CultOfAthena

Let's try something completely different.

and what the fuck is this anyway? we are a LONG way out of RVS, So much content, so many things if your are town you could talk abotu/vote for. But you vote for no reason?!
Yep, happy with a Beef lynch. Lets go.

Pfft. I had my reasons. I just didn't feel like expressing them at the time. In my big reads post, I had her as null. (she was initially town before I posted my reads) I described her as "good questions. not much else" and after a couple more of her posts, it just solidified that her posts have been methodical and perhaps a little deceptive or misdirecting. I don't know if I can point to any particular post or line.

I haven't really been paying super close attention. I was juggling 2 other games with AGDQ.