Open 708: Pick Your Poison - Game Over

[texcat]

VOTE: Beefster
Because he has reasons

[texcat]

Hey all.

VOTE: Flubbernugget

I have a couple of town leans already I think

VOTE: Maxous
This looks like a blatant attempt to look like you're scum hunting without actually doing anything.

---

I like Penguin's reaction to Thor's case. And I liked that Thor pushed the case to get the reaction.

[texcat]

On Maxous's "I have town reads"
- I feel like it's an odd thing to say but I can see why he wouldn't supply reasons. Sometimes you just get vague impressions, it happens.
- What I don't understand is

why he felt the need to speak out on these impressions.

It wasn't that Maxous did not supply reasons for his town leans, it was that he didn't even supply names of his town reads that stood out to me. Stood out enough that I called it blatant, but (@Cult) I guess blatant is in the eye of the beholder.

uhh real mountain out of a molehill here guys.

i just felt Athena and Penguin were a bit towny in the first couple of posts. I didn't mention names because i wanted to avoid the Q&A but it happened anyway.

I have more solid town leans on Moneybags and Mozamis by this stage.

VOTE: Beefster

I guess?

His vote on #42 felt a bit weak. Felt a bit more like he wanted an excuse to vote there.

bit of a scum-lean on HWS too.

Uh, I think the argument for the first poster to be scum is weak

Penguin might've just been around when the game started, or had an email notification, or was doing mod stuff...

^
he's not reading

This post is enough to get me to
UNVOTE: .
@HeWhoSwims, perhaps you should reread 50 where PP says that he posted before PMs went out.
I agree about Beefster, but I've liked Beefster's recent explanations to Bella and CultOfA.

Klick, I'm sharing a simular sentiment that the majority of the players that have posted so far are town. When I have more time I will detail this.

The one thing I don't particularly understand is why people believe texcat is town. Not getting the gut feeling others have.

I don't understand either, but do note that Bella's pockets are roomy and warm.

[texcat]

So make a case or something

Hmmmm...

VOTE: Flubbernugget
Telling me to make a case, when you are not. Plus telling us that voting Bella is a town thing to do, when you are not.

[texcat]

So make a case or something

Hmmmm...

VOTE: Flubbernugget
Telling me to make a case, when you are not. Plus telling us that voting Bella is a town thing to do, when you are not.

QFT.

Flubber, care to explain why both of these points are a thing?

Well, there's seven pages of content, and texcat didn't have much to say about it. The "make a case or something" was a reference to the fact that texcat was shading Bellaphant without pushing many reads.

Do you still think tex is town from their catch up? I don't.

VOTE: texcat

This looks like

blatant

obvious OMGUS. When you said that you didn't understand Bella and Klick's town read of me, it was OK, but when I say something about it, suddenly it's shading? And what about Klick, he echoed Bella, but you say that he's "making good observations." Seems a little off.

You weren't pushing anyone and your vote was not on anyone until I voted you. Suddenly then you produced a list of townreads and then decide to vote me. Stinks like pond scum. I think you are scum looking for an easy place to park your vote, and you found it when I voted you.

[texcat]

It didn't look like scum & scum to me. Did I miss something that you saw?

[texcat]

I'm not comfortable with this Flubber wagon. This feels misguided and fishy.

Looking into this later today.

Ouch. I'm pretty sure Flubber is scum. I'm waiting to see what you find when you look into it.

not entirely sure if it's playstyle or alignment but texcat is a little quiet.
she's only talking about a select few people.

It's definitely my play style.

[texcat]

I don't understand either, but do note that Bella's pockets are roomy and warm.

Also, I have no clue why you're town reading texcat. Low content meta doesn't cut it. You still have to account for the very little scumhunting in what they had, which was a laughable pocketing accusation.

I agree that it was not a super serious accusation. Perhaps that smiley tipped you off?

[texcat]

I'm not comfortable with this Flubber wagon. This feels misguided and fishy.

Looking into this later today.

@Klick -- Did you look into this? What did you find?

[texcat]

I'm not comfortable with this Flubber wagon. This feels misguided and fishy.

Looking into this later today.

Ouch. I'm pretty sure Flubber is scum. I'm waiting to see what you find when you look into it.

not entirely sure if it's playstyle or alignment but texcat is a little quiet.
she's only talking about a select few people.

It's definitely my play style.

I'm not comfortable with this Flubber wagon. This feels misguided and fishy.

Looking into this later today.

@Klick -- Did you look into this? What did you find?

I can confirm that Bella's real life is in fact rough at the moment.

Posts with more content coming tonight. Today's my first day of classes, gonna be busy until they end tonight.

Following Thor's methodology, I'm going to keep asking about this.

[texcat]

texcat: I had a weak gut townread on texcat earlier. It was based on Post 58 seeming like genuine opinions. It was small, and I now feel like it is something tex would do as either alignment based on her posting style.
But the Flubbernugget vote is really, really bad. She gave no real indication she had any sort of read on Flubbernugget before the vote. Her vote was based on hypocrisy, not really alignment-indicative in any sense. But she's gung-ho about it, and sets Flub into what seems to me like a manipulated lose-lose scenario. I don't believe texcat actually has the opinion on Flub she claims to have. It's too flashy, too overconfident.

Chuckling at the "really, really bad." Sounds like a tweet from Trump. What makes you think that hypocrisy is not AI? I was not "gung-ho" about my vote at all.

So make a case or something

Hmmmm...

VOTE: Flubbernugget
Telling me to make a case, when you are not. Plus telling us that voting Bella is a town thing to do, when you are not.

I only became sure of my scum read on Flubber when he OMGUS voted me. I didn't force him into any kind of scenario. Flubber's vote was the "really, really bad" vote, especially the part about me shading Bella, when he has called votes on her townie and repeatedly questioned the gut townread on me.

[texcat]

and kilck, what is it with you defending the bella/rc slot so hard?

I thought it was Flubber that he was defending so hard.

[texcat]

hardclaim town tracker

I'm getting shot anyway and I have no desire to spend my limited time in this game defending myself.

lynch transcend.

I don't understand this. Why would you claim if you are town tracker? What makes you say that you are getting shot anyway? I just don't get it. Could you explain, and if not now, after the game?

[texcat]

Ack. I hit submit instead of preview....
I'm giving RC the benefit of doubt for now, and hoping for the best. Transcend's cc did not strike me as scummy, especially since he retracted it fairly quickly. I saw it as more of a test of RC's claim.

and kilck, what is it with you defending the bella/rc slot so hard?

I thought it was Flubber that he was defending so hard.

you ever gonna play this game?

Not playing the way you play or the way you think I should play does not mean that I am not playing.

[texcat]

Town: Thor, Moneybags Both seem to be scum hunting and I agree with most of their points.
Scum: Flubber I thought this was clear from my vote and posts.

I like the subs. I was leaning town on Penguin and Transcend has not destroyed than lean yet. I liked RC's rather flamboyant entrance. Quite a difference from Bella. And his claim means that scum should sort him for us soon.

I keep going back and forth on Moz and Beef, but I think both of them have left enough associations that they will be easier to sort in the future. And I guess I would put Klick in this category too.

I'm leaning scum on Maxous. I voted him on page 2 for his mystery town leans. He came under some pressure for that and explained reasonably well, but has been fairly quiet since. And I disagree with his scum reads of Penguin, Bella, Thor and me.

That leaves CofA, EP, HeWhoSwims in the null, but probably town category.

[texcat]

@Mod - I know it's minor, but it always helps me when replacements start happening - could you update the first post with who is replacing who? It can wait till the second replacement pops in. Thanks and lurvs in advance!

And I'd like to me too this.

[texcat]

What would be the motivation for fake claiming? It just means that you're outed as scum sooner rather than later.

[texcat]

are we really letting mafia scapegoat lynch tex again (:

No. Let's not do that. Have you considered Flubber?

[texcat]

Who is TC? Do you mean RC?

[texcat]

like i'm pretty sure he realized that at some point if he seemed derpy enough he could push scum wincon like a legendary motherfucker

To be completely honest, I'm reading moz as town for being reactionary and gut reading what they see in a similar manner to how I am seeing your play.

LOL This is a pet peeve of mine and usually a pretty good scum tell. Does this mean that you haven't been completely honest in your other posts?

[texcat]

Well, carp. That's a revolting development.
UNVOTE:

I would have cc'd long before now, if I were not VT.

[texcat]

Well, carp. That's a revolting development.
UNVOTE:

I would have cc'd long before now, if I were not VT.

Cc'd who exactly? Why would it have at all made sense to out as the 3rd pr, if that's what you meant?

We almost certainly had an IC in the game. So if I had a PR, for example if I were a jailkeeper, I would have know that either Transcend or RC was lying about their role, and I would have claimed. I guess that's not exactly a cc.

[texcat]

VT.
Later today I'll pour over the game in context of the confirmed town and see what I get. In context of flub being IC brings to mind stuff like Tex's out of place omgus claim.

If we get 3 confirmed town I'll pore over some VC's and the like myself.

Do you really think someone is lying about their claim? I think we already have 3 confirmed town.

[texcat]

VOTE: Beefster
I think it was the whole volunteering to be lynched thing that pushed him to the scum side for me.

@Money -- RC talked about this a while ago before Transcend claimed -- that IC would be in the game

oh and btw there's a thing I want to point out which is sort of why I claimed anyway

the correct play mechanically is to run jailkeeper/IC/tracker. 2-shot vig and 1-shot cop are far ahead of the others in power level, though there is some argument to be made for running jailkeeper/vig BUT that would mean that scum didn't run IC which would be stupid so like if I were scum I'd have run jailkeeper/vig/IC but since there's a confirmed tracker if scum thought about what they were doing at all we're looking at tracker/jailkeeper/IC
so most likely there is a jailkeeper in this game and since scum have no PRs I can only know if I was jailkept if I am in fact tracker

which is another way of saying that the jailkeeper, if any, should flip two coins and unless both come up tails you should jail me, and since scum already know whether or not a jailkeeper exists in the setup I'm not giving them any information by hardclaiming my result at the start of tomorrow

it's genius really

[texcat]

VOTE: Beefster
I think it was the whole volunteering to be lynched thing that pushed him to the scum side for me.

VOTE: Texcat

I find it flagrantly unbelievable that someone would actually say this.

Why? Beef was under a lot of pressure. He got to L-1 or L-2. Have you never seen scum do something like that to avoid being lynched?

[texcat]

I take that sarcasm to mean that you have seen it. So I don't understand why you call it flagrantly unbelievable.

[texcat]

Ack. I hit submit instead of preview....
I'm giving RC the benefit of doubt for now, and hoping for the best. Transcend's cc did not strike me as scummy, especially since he retracted it fairly quickly. I saw it as more of a test of RC's claim.

and kilck, what is it with you defending the bella/rc slot so hard?

I thought it was Flubber that he was defending so hard.

you ever gonna play this game?

Not playing the way you play or the way you think I should play does not mean that I am not playing.

What would be the motivation for fake claiming? It just means that you're outed as scum sooner rather than later.

Missed this the first time around. Giving RC the BOTD and then later asking (me I think) the motivation for fake claiming. Seems inconsistent.

I can kinda see what people have been saying about texcat.

I guess I can settle.

VOTE: texcat

Theory Question: I've heard from a few people on the site that it is usually a bad idea to No Lynch. Why is that? It seems to me that if everyone is town or you can't all agree on a lynch, it's best to No Lynch, especially on an early day.

And this is why I'm voting Beef. What exactly do you find inconisistent? Let's go back and look at what happened. In 493 I said that I was giving RC the benefit of doubt. Although I clearly did not understand why RC was claiming, as I said in 491.

Then much later, after Transcend claimed you said,

Well considering the three of you are my top suspects and that a fake claim is the most damning... Yeah. I'll keep my vote on the fake claim.

A quote you conveniently forgot to include. I replied asking what motivation you saw for the fake claim. Explain to me what is inconsistent.

[texcat]

I did not understand the motivation for a town RC to claim. That's different than thinking that there was not motivation and it would be suicidal for a scum RC to claim. But Beef leaving out his own quote that I was responding to seems damning to me.

[texcat]

Pretty sure one of these forefront votes on Tex is scum

Hey tex can you be a doll and vote hws

HWS has been in my null pile. I doubt if he's scum. Although since I'm sure I'm town, I might do it for self preservation. Of your 3 (or 4 if you include Klick) I'd be more inclined to vote CofA. I still think Money is town. And I was suspicious of Klick for a while, but that seems to have dissipated recently.

[texcat]

Have you noticed that CofA was posting a lot before you subbed in, and then it's practically come to a standstill?

[texcat]

That's good to know. Thanks.

[texcat]

Let's look at the votes on me:

texcat and Thor have had their votes parked on Flubber since Page 8.
I believe at least one of them is scum and has been very comfortably floating this Flubber scumread all game.

And that leads me back to:
VOTE: texcat

Klick starts because I was voting Flubber. I guess this is fair, although I contend that Flubber was not and is not playing up to his town game. I think he knew he had the IC card to pull out of his pocket and didn't bother trying to look town or to do much scum hunting.

Money voted me in post 970 for lurking, voting Flub, and thinking there was an IC in the game, after RC had said scum would be stupid not to include an IC and I agree.

VOTE: Beefster
I think it was the whole volunteering to be lynched thing that pushed him to the scum side for me.

VOTE: Texcat

I find it flagrantly unbelievable that someone would actually say this.

I replied to this. But I guess you can't argue with RC. *shrug*

screw it, i'm probably overthinking it.
VOTE: texcat

And this is the clue that I am town. Moz gives up and goes for the compromise lynch. Always town. No one has a good case, but everyone has some lingering suspicion of the lurker. Doesn't ever work.

And then there was Beefster.

Money put some research and thought into his vote. I don't agree, but I still think he looks town. I'm accepting RC as town, but the other three, Klick, Moz, and Beef will deserve a close eye after I flip town.

[texcat]

Intent to hammer. Any last words HWS?

[texcat]

And neither one of us confirmed town, even if HWS happens to flip scum, and neither are you.

[texcat]

VOTE: HeWhoSwims

[texcat]

RC that was a terrible track, Transcend was practically confirmed town.

I'm surprised by how little traction the tex wagon had in the end there. I think there could have easily been two scum wagons D1 and scum had little-to-no influence in either. Tex and HWS weren't particularly willing to vote each other ever.

VOTE: texcat

Scum between Tex/Thor/moz/EP? Not really feeling Max anymore.

This is nonsense. I did vote HWS, although I admit, reluctantly. And HWS never voted anyone, so it's hardly surprising that he never voted me.

[texcat]

Vote Count 1.10

HeWhoSwims

(7): Transcend, Thor665, RadiantCowbells, mozamis, Flubbernugget, Klick, texcat

texcat

(2): Moneybags, Beefster

Errantparabola

(1): Maxous

Beefster

(1): CultOfAthena

Not Voting

(2): Errantparabola, HeWhoSwims

I think the best place to start looking is at the 4 remaining who did not vote for HWS. While it's certainly possible that scum bussed HWS, I think it's unlikely that both scum voted there.

I didn't like Beefster yesterday and I don't like the way he started today assuming that EP was scum and then looking for EP's partners. Then backing off.

VOTE: Beefster for now, but I'm looking forward to Max's long-promised case on EP, as well as EP's long-promised catch up.

[texcat]

I think the best place to start looking is at the 4 remaining who did not vote for HWS. While it's certainly possible that scum bussed HWS, I think it's unlikely that both scum voted there.

Do you think it's more likely that both scum voted him or both scum didn't?
Because it's super safe to expect one in each location, so...

Also, still hate Beef wagon.

I would normally say both off the wagon, but with only 4 unknowns off the wagon, it seems unlikely.

I think the best place to start looking is at the 4 remaining who did not vote for HWS. While it's certainly possible that scum bussed HWS, I think it's unlikely that both scum voted there.

I didn't like Beefster yesterday and I don't like the way he started today assuming that EP was scum and then looking for EP's partners. Then backing off.

VOTE: Beefster for now, but I'm looking forward to Max's long-promised case on EP, as well as EP's long-promised catch up.

are you gonna ignore practically half the playerlist??

This is a bad mischaracterization of what I said. I never said I was going to ignore anyone. I said I thought the best place to

start

looking was at you 4.

i think i'm really warming up to the possibility of Athena!scum.
particularly as herself and HWS barely talked about each-other at all yesterday

Is this so you don't have to present your much promised case on EP?

[texcat]

Obviously scum had a lot of alternate options - but what makes you think it slightly likely that zero scum bussed?

Shrug. Anything's possible.

[texcat]

Obviously scum had a lot of alternate options - but what makes you think it slightly likely that zero scum bussed?

Shrug. Anything's possible.

Sure, anything's possible.
What made you consider that one though?

??
I don't know what you're talking about.

[texcat]

Obviously scum had a lot of alternate options - but what makes you think it slightly likely that zero scum bussed?

Shrug. Anything's possible.

Sure, anything's possible.
What made you consider that one though?

??
I don't know what you're talking about.

You can always click in the quote links to backtrack a conversation.
I'm talking about why you would normally expect zero scum on that wagon.

First I said that my guess would be one off and one on the wagon. Then you forced me to pick from 2 on or 2 off the wagon. Normally I would say 2 off because I just don't think scum bus that much as a general rule. Why are you asking?

[texcat]

I think the best place to start looking is at the 4 remaining who did not vote for HWS. While it's certainly possible that scum bussed HWS, I think it's unlikely that both scum voted there.

Do you think it's more likely that both scum voted him or both scum didn't?
Because it's super safe to expect one in each location, so...

Also, still hate Beef wagon.

You certainly

asked

me to pick.

[texcat]

The largest version of my lynchpool is this:
{Thor, Klick, texcat, Athena, Maxous} and I think the order is somewhat like this
{Athena > Maxous > texcat > Thor > Klick}

I would be willing to
VOTE: Klick
here because he's going for texcat/Thor and almost completely stagnating around that and his other weak reads. I'm open to reconsidering because I do think that scum is more inclined to open aggressively after a scum lynch but I don't think that factors in heavily enough to change off of here.

Can you clarify this? I originally thought that "Athena > " ... meant that Athena was the scummiest and Klick the least scummy, but your next sentences seem to indicate it's the other way round.

[texcat]

Is this going somewhere?

I'm not going anywhere with it. You were the one asking.

[texcat]

Ouch. Sorry about needing the prod.

UNVOTE: I can see that the Beefster lynch isn't going anywhere.

The others off of the HWS lynch are Maxous, CofA, and EP. I don't have any of them in my town leans. I think probably CofA would be the best bet.

If I had to guess a scum on the HWS lynch, I would guess Klick who I scum read earlier and then changed my mind on. But wouldn't mind lynching him just based on the OMGUS factor.

I am not voting for Thor or Moz, both of whom are town.

I am busy all day again today, but will be back in about 12 hours.

[texcat]

Y'all must expect people to be bussing all the time. I'm not used to that. Perhaps I'm just out of touch. After reading RCs wall on Moz though, I went to look to look at the last time Moz was scum and found Mini 1961 where he hardly bussed at all. His scum game there does not look much like his game here to me.

[texcat]

Who is NSG?

[texcat]

VOTE: Beefster

I didn't like his

lynch me--I'll sacrifice myself for town's sake

defense yesterday. I don't like his

I'm not really paying attention

defense today. They both seemed very calculated and deliberate to me. I can imagine his scum partner telling Beefster over night that they had already lost HWS and that he needed to tone it down a bit.

I can see what yall are saying about Moz, but his posts still have the air of carefree, don't give a damn, town to me.

[texcat]

I don't think there's any disputing a confirmed tracker. If RC followed mozamis to the kill, either he's lying or mozamis is scum. We'll know for sure which one it is after we lynch mozamis.

VOTE: mozamis

I think that's where my vote was already, so I guess I'm reparking my vote.

This post may be the most ridiculous of the game. Beefster, why are you intentionally ignoring 1561???? We already know that RC was lying. Is it an effort to get Moz lynched? Or is this somehow supposed to get you town cred?

[texcat]

And what should we do in a townMoz universe?

[texcat]

Just how many bad assumptions did Thor make to get to scum me? I read 819 half a dozen times and still don't see how it makes Klick town. And he has to assume that Moz is town. Really? The person that most people, including Thor, have voted today. I don't understand his reasoning about if I flip scum, Moz must be town. Is that some circular reasoning? And he doesn't even consider what it means when I do flip town. Uhhh, maybe you made some bad assumptions along the way. But which ones and what did you learn?

I can only think that Thor has set up some kind of bad reaction test. Perhaps to see who will follow him on that really bad vote?? It appears that only EP did. Although Klick unvoted Moz and claimed to have another look last night. Ugh. He voted Moz because RC had followed Moz to the nk. And just now he's unvoting. And when can we expect the detailed look from Klick? Never.

Beefster claimed to not be following the game. Klick obviously is not. And EP appears to only skim from time to time.

[texcat]

I read 819 half a dozen times and still don't see how it makes Klick town.

I have explicitly described why I think it makes him town - what part of my explanation is losing you, or are you just generally disagreeing? If just generally disagreeing, could you explain a HWS/Klick connection as you see it?

I don't see that asking RC about his HWS town read makes Klick town. Klick's original reads of HWS were firmly on top of the fence.

HeWhoSwims: I really have no idea how to read him. He seems very level-headed, and a lot of what he's posting is relatively safe and could come from either alignment. I could see him as scum failing to make any false steps, or I could see him as a helpful town member. I think a game day or two will do a lot to influence this read.

I haven't seen very many people give HWS townreads. I'm getting the same impression he's good as scum, which is why I can't place him as a townread right now. He hasn't really done anything scummy though.

Klick could be town asking RC legitimately trying to firm up his read of HWS. Or it could be scum trying to decide whether to start bussing HWS, particularly the part about how few people are giving HWS townreads.

And he has to assume that Moz is town. Really? The person that most people, including Thor, have voted today.

I wasn't aware that 'most people' voting someone automatically made them scum.
It's strange that mislynches ever happen if this is true
Oh, wait, so it *isn't* true.

Nor does it automatically make them town.

I don't understand his reasoning about if I flip scum, Moz must be town. Is that some circular reasoning?

That would be because, as I already said, I don't think scum Moz would have bussed his entire team.

OK.

I can only think that Thor has set up some kind of bad reaction test. Perhaps to see who will follow him on that really bad vote?? It appears that only EP did. Although Klick unvoted Moz and claimed to have another look last night. Ugh. He voted Moz because RC had followed Moz to the nk. And just now he's unvoting. And when can we expect the detailed look from Klick? Never.

Do you think Klick/Moz/HWS makes sense as the scumteam? How?
Because if not I don't quite follow your issue here.

No. I think Moz is town. I can see a Klick/HWS/X team, or a Beef/HWS/X team.

Beefster claimed to not be following the game. Klick obviously is not. And EP appears to only skim from time to time.

I agree that this game has some added difficulty from people not reading it.
The sad reality is you listed 3 names and, due to the way you're reacting to me, I think we probably need to add your name, and as long as we're complaining let's throw in CoA for her hardcore lurk, and Moz for his meltdown since Phase start and recent lurk.

Now that we've established multiple town players are, by definition, playing anti-town - what other insight can you bring to that snarl? You're not actually saying anything there.

Yeah, not sure where I was going with that.

[texcat]

If you think Moz is town why are you spending time attacking my townread of him as opposed to attacking my scumread of you?
That's scummy as hell.

I thought I was attacking your townread on Klick, which I think is wrong, and tried already to explain why. And I'm still not sure about your reasoning of if Klick and Moz are town, then Tex is scum, and if Tex is scum, then Moz is town. But OK.

[texcat]

@Tex - that's fair enough, I misrecalled the conversation.
My other responses are still rather valid, want to address them?

If both Klick and Moz are town then you're scum because I really doubt zero scum bussed - I'm not sure what's confusing about that stance. Do you think zero scum bussed? (I will presume not since you're saying Klick is scum) so, same logic.
Make sense now?

Yeah, thanks. I get that there was probably a scum on the HWS wagon, but disagree obviously with where you think it is.

I don't want to address them, but I will give it a shot.

Klick could be town asking RC legitimately trying to firm up his read of HWS. Or it could be scum trying to decide whether to start bussing HWS, particularly the part about how few people are giving HWS townreads.

WHat makes you think the latter is more/equally likely?

I think scum worry more about others' reads than town does. They particularly are concerned about reads of scummates, like HWS.

Nor does it automatically make them town.

Agreed.
Except I'm not saying it does, whereas you're bringing it up as though it *is* a valid argument for them to be scum.
If it's not a valid town argument, then it is equally not a valid scum argument. A tell is either alignment telling or it is not.
Which are you claiming here?
And if you answer 'not telling' then why bring it up in the first place?
And if you answer 'scumtell' then please explain why you believe that - because it's bollocks.

I was just trying to point out that your assumption of town!moz to get to scum!me was not an assumption that a lot of people agreed with.

OK.

OK?
How about - do you agree or disagree with that stance and why?

I agree that Moz probably didn't bus his entire team. I disagree that Moz bussed me. He did vote me once yesterday after throwing up his hands and has always had me on his might be scum list. But OK, whatever, it isn't worth talking about since I know I'm not scum and I don't think Moz is scum.

[texcat]

We're going to lynch Ep, Tex, or Moz today.
All have viable cases and associations against them.
So, unless you literally town read all three, what the hell is with this counterwagon experiment at this stage?
Get your vote back to a viable wagon,

present your case

, we'll discuss it tomorrow after flips.
Don't make me regret arguing you into a town pile today by adding more distractions to this herd of cats.

The only part of this I agreed with was the part I bolded. Didn't you ask EP 'Where's the fire?' I think we should see Klick's case. Klick and CofA are both on the possible scum list. It could definitely help clarify things.

It's *exactly* long winded PoE.
And PoE is *exactly* scumhunting. Do you have some PoE to share or analysis of our PoE?

I agree I shut down a proposed alternate wagon - do you have a read on that?

I agree that if you just complain about lack of new developments that no new developments except those started by others will happen.

I agree that you are acting like things are stagnant and your only available choice is to sheep RC/my PoE...I want you to know I find that a scummy thought process to extrovert.
I find most of that post kind of scummy, at the very least it's a lot of claims of external loci of control, which I don't cotton to much.

I'm going to tell you again that your PoE was wrong. You should NOT eliminate Klick. I even showed you where your one cherry-picked post from Klick to show that he was town, looked scummy to me.
I did notice that you eliminated yourself which, of course, makes sense from your pov. And I had you in the town column until you started this push on me.

176 doesn't make a lot of sense as buddy interaction to my mind - as a quick rebuttal to the texcat lynch today.

What made you change your mind from this other cherry-picked quote?

And shutting down alternate wagons is anti-town. Just look what happened yesterday. HWS was not a wagon until the 11th hour. I realize that you, like your namesake, like to hammer us cats into compliance. But town is aware when the deadline is. Town knows how to herd themselves onto a viable lynch in the end. We don't need your hammer to herd us.

I notice that EP and Moz were both agreeable to a lynch in your pool, but I am not. I will not vote for EP, Moz, or myself.

[texcat]

The case on Beefster

VOTE: CultOfAthena

Let's try something completely different.

Early on there was this odd vote out of the blue on CoA. I'm sure it was meant to deflect the conversation. At the time Bella was discussing scum reads on Max and Flick, but perhaps it was something earlier. And what's worse is that when Money asked about it, Beefster quickly switched back to Flubber, saying

The flubber wagon felt stale at the time, but it seems to be picking up momentum. She's been pinging my scumdar. She feels very methodical/mechanical in her posts.

VOTE: Flubber

I am still suspicious of COA.

Pfft. I had my reasons. I just didn't feel like expressing them at the time. In my big reads post, I had her as null. (she was initially town before I posted my reads) I described her as "good questions. not much else" and after a couple more of her posts, it just solidified that her posts have been methodical and perhaps a little deceptive or misdirecting. I don't know if I can point to any particular post or line.

I haven't really been paying super close attention. I was juggling 2 other games with AGDQ.

I didn't realize that Beef's not paying attention defense started this early.

At this point, I don't think it's possible for me to start from square one. My gut just seems to be pushing me in this weird direction.

I still think there is scum in RC, COA, and moz. Maybe all 3.

But you know what? I volunteer as tribute! Lynch me when you feel like it. I will flip Vanilla Town and my death will give a surprising amount of information.

Look, I've been playing very badly. I'm probably the town's biggest liability and yet a handful of players have defended my apparently scummy play. Thing is, scum probably wouldn't do that. They're going to go after the scummiest-looking players and

only

defend that sort of thing on their scum partners. Those who have defended my "scummiest" moments are probably town.

If this looks like a scum gambit to you, all the more reason to throw your vote at me. You'll see I have

no tricks up my sleeve

. I'm more valuable to the town dead because it confirms my alignment. Unless someone actually claims scum for some bizarre reason, I concede to being the best lynch option.

Will my accusations carry more weight after I'm confirmed town from a lynch? That remains to be seen, but my hope is "yes"

I can't read this any way except as a hail mary from a caught scum at L-1. I just don't see it coming from town.

I need to read Beef closer I guess. He's throwing me for a loop. Should do the same for Klick. COA needs to reply but I think I saw she did further down the thread. No big fan of recent tex posts either.

oooo I like 622. That's a catch on Beef copying. That's certainly suspicious.

Maxous. What are your arguments for not voting Beefster? What did you think of what Coa said in 622?

And yes I was in that game as scum. Finished 2 days ago. Interestingly Beef was one of my scumpartners actually. But you and most others here have certainly also rolled scum, no?

HWS laying the groundwork for bussing Beef? Along with a plea to Max to make the town case on Beef?

Tbh I think Scum!Mozamis is the piece that everyone's missing

FWIW, I saw that like 5 pages ago. At least.

VOTE: mozamis

I could see moneyscum

Buddying RC. (Blatantly )

HWS has flip-flopped on me so much that I don't think he could be scum. Even with players as confusing as I have apparently been, scum is generally going to try to stick with one story and not deviate from it. At least not suddenly. He has also contributed meaningfully to the conversation.

He's also playing quite a bit differently from the last time I was scum with him. As with all meta reads, take it with a grain of salt, especially since HWS is a new player and is likely to have learned from past play.

This could be Beef's hail mary to prevent his scummate's lynch.

EP ISO analysis

General:
EP pretty much just ignored HWS the entire game up to this point.
Opportunistic on #252 vote on Max
Admits to not reading on #1175. Could be an attempt at looking more town.

This is interesting...and damning in my book. Beef accuses EP of attempting to look town by admitting to not reading. Isn't that exactly what Beef himself has done the entire game? Look through his ISO; you'll be surprised how many times he says he's not paying attention or he's not reading closely or he's perhaps confused.