Open 709: Masons and Monks (Game Over)

[Beefster]

This wagon on me is complete and utter bullshit.

[Mathdino]

Why are you calling me out for my RVS votes?

better options available to you both times

[davesaz]

A bus is only really a bus when it results in a lynch nor near-lynch.
Scum vote their partners all the time in a low-risk environment. Surely you must know that.

I feel like I like what dave is posting in a "thank god theres someone sensible" but it doesnt go much deeper than that when I feel like I should be townreading him for it. Thats kinda sketch.

I find it quite reasonable to have mixed feelings about this. It is exactly what it says on the tin, a sensible point of view on the topic it was responding to. What you're not seeing from me at that point in time is analysis of whether the activity I was replying to was AI or not. There isn't enough of said activity, or other information surrounding it, to know yet if it's AI. Am I motivated by defending it, or motivated by protecting town from misconceptions formed too early. Try judging the post in that light and see if it helps.

Weak gut scum vibe on this sequence. Buddying, and trying to make a town block. And the lurker vote thing.

Why does town not do that sequence?

That's exactly why I qualified it as a weak vibe, town could do it too. I think it's slightly more likely for that player to do it as scum in that circumstance. It's gut because I know I have this opinion but can't back it up with reasoning. (If you haven't played with me before, strong reasoning typically doesn't show up on

anything

until there is a flip, night actions, or claims; reasoning in general typically waits until at least a couple RL days and/or a big wagon comes and goes).

[Kotoko Utsugi]

I think I've played with you before on my main (notscience bc this acc's already fucked) but anyways

(I also dont need a full on explanation of what gut means )

I think I'm gonna stick a pin in you for a bit and wait for some flips.

[Beefster]

Honestly I'd be pretty cool with speedlynching in this setup. I have a strong suspicion that the longer the day goes on, the more scumsided it'll eventually get. Masons and monks are gonna get pretty obvious over time. Plus, ideal strategy is for mafia and wolves to shoot town (and not destroy each other). I'd rather not give them more time to figure out the entire setup.

So yeah let's speedlynch Beefster.

I don't follow this line of reasoning. The scumteams already have a pretty low chance of killing the other scum if done completely randomly. I don't really see how a short day makes things any different.

The way to win is to get 4 correct lynches in a row. Short days do not help achieve that.

VOTE: Mathdino
OMGUS, but I don't care.

[Kotoko Utsugi]

[Beefster]

Why are you calling me out for my RVS votes?

better options available to you both times

Like who? There were no real scumtells on the first two pages. They're just bootstrapping shitposts.

[Kotoko Utsugi]

I change my mind I think beefs town

[Mathdino]

i mean town almost never wins multiballs when scum DONT kill each other anyway
but it'd be cool to not inadvertently out masons/monks in the midst of arguing

also the "only scum make townblocs" scumtell is literally a scumtell i've only ever used as scum
more often i find that townblocs are made of town tbh
idk if i'm townreading or scumreading dave being wrong, i didn't see post 60 before kotoko brought it up

[Mathdino]

and idk
if i were scum in beefster's shoes i don't think i'd do what he did
but beefster is also not me, and OMGUSing here is a great way of making people think "wow that bad vote must be town"
so vote stands for now

[Kotoko Utsugi]

and idk
if i were scum in beefster's shoes i don't think i'd do what he did
but beefster is also not me, and OMGUSing here is a great way of making people think "wow that bad vote must be town"
so vote stands for now

You realize that scum had an entire wagon of blatant sheepvotes to call out and discredit and instead took on the person pushing teh hardest

It would have been way easier to go after literally anyone else than you

[Mathdino]

no yeah that's exactly my point

if he went and redirected, that's like the obvious scummy thing to do

doing what he did is, however, the smart-scum move

i just need more content from him before i reevaluate. i'm certainly not reevaluating based on a super lowkey defence

[Beefster]

@Math: Frankly, I don't care what other people think of me for my OMGUS. I just think you're scum. You're acting very differently from when I played with you in that Newbie game that ended last week. Almost too differently. My case isn't meta, but it certainly informs my opinion.

[Beefster]

You're voting me for the stupidest possible reasons, no less.

[Kotoko Utsugi]

do you have any non-newbie experience with reptar?

[Mathdino]

hahaha

I replaced into the game D2 and immediately wrote up a full reads list with tons of reasons, predicted scum's next move, correctly called a major suspect town, and then started pushing lynches.

Multiball is weird and given the masons/monks, full reads are anti-town. This is a fundamentally different game. I also act different early game.

[Beefster]

@KU: No. Just the one game. I recently came back from a 6-year haitus from the site, so he joined while I was gone. The Newbie game was just a refresher.

[davesaz]

I think I've played with you before on my main (notscience bc this acc's already fucked) but anyways

Pretty sure that goes back all the way to one of my early games on the site when I signed up and the game took long enough to start that I was sent to China on business.

[Kotoko Utsugi]

@KU: No. Just the one game. I recently came back from a 6-year haitus from the site, so he joined while I was gone. The Newbie game was just a refresher.

What do you think of what reptar just said about how the multiball and masons aspect changes his play? An excuse or plausbile explanation?

[JaydragonKing]

Nice to see a useful conversation going on here. This comment also adds nothing, but I'm watching nonetheless.

[Beefster]

@KU: No. Just the one game. I recently came back from a 6-year haitus from the site, so he joined while I was gone. The Newbie game was just a refresher.

What do you think of what reptar just said about how the multiball and masons aspect changes his play? An excuse or plausbile explanation?

Seems plausible. Now that I think about it, he replaced into that game with his guns blazing, so I guess pushing a lynch early is pretty characteristic of him.

I just don't like how he latched onto the dumbest possible reasons.

[davesaz]

Multiball is weird and given the masons/monks, full reads are anti-town.

Another misconception.
The mason/monk mechanic can't help with generic town/scum, but it does help with not mafia / not werewolf reads. In that sense having reasons for townreads isn't strictly anti-town.
I usually scumread incorrect mechanics advice from other players, though TBH it's probably more likely that town makes those kinds of mistakes purely based on their greater numbers.

[Kotoko Utsugi]

I just don't like how he latched onto the dumbest possible reasons.

Were his reasons in the other game more solid and concise than this?

[Kotoko Utsugi]

I just don't like how he latched onto the dumbest possible reasons.

Were his reasons in the other game more solid and concise than this?

Rather, were they not dumb (I guess? Not sure how to phrase this but you get the point I think)

[Mathdino]

monk mafia and mason werewolf is rare
but beside that point
in general, when i'm in a neighbourhood with someone in an ordinary game, i prefer to keep them from being lynched and/or throw null-townreads their way so i can try to sort them using the hood
if, for example, i were a mason
it doesn't benefit me to out my mason buddy or get my mason buddy lynched

i've been following this game since it started, i know what i'm doing lol