Open 705: Polygamist - Game Over

[Mathdino]

Red did in fact bus cy for a very long time, Diamond.

I can give receipts if you like.

This setup should be decommissioned imo.

[MathBlade]

MathDino: Cy is scum because lack of hammer.
LaLendra: No you are wrong.
MathBlade: Lalendra is wrong.
Cytheflyguy: Lalendra is wrong.

profit

Yup. Rotflmbo I just didn’t want to point it out of potentially being called “conf!biased”

[Mathdino]

TFW ARBITRARY LYNCH WORKED BTW

NEVER LYNCH ON SCUMHUNTING WOOOOOOOO

Honestly I started purposefully trying to come up with reasons for cy/Lalendra scum. I was deadset on that arbitrary lynch from the start.

And my sheep/Tora read was awesome.

[MathBlade]

The fact that hammer hasn’t occurred would mean that there is likely a scum there in those pairs.

Ergo I am only interested in lynching cy or cy’s partner, Sky/Diamond, RedFlavor pair or Toranaga pair.

[MathBlade]

But yeah mainly I agree the setup should no longer be run but not because of the math but other reasons.

[Mathdino]

If random lynch utterly breaks this setup (and kingmaker random lynch likely FURTHER breaks the setup) to a >60% winrate, I can't say I'm a huge fan.

[Sky_Paladin]

I have to run off for a few hours but will look forward to the post game chat, especially now that cooler heads can prevail.

[DiamondSentinel]

Yeah, I don't deal with VCA or voting patterns. They're wrong, in my experience, far more often than they're right.

Indeed, gg all

I've learned a couple things here:

1. I don't like vanilla/french vanilla setups unless I'm scum (Not in a "I only like playing scum" way. more "I like getting to play a chess match").
2. I don't like short games. Need multiple nights.
3. Night-talk games are weirdly more fun as scum than as town.

PEdit: Agree with MathDino. Arbitrary lynches are a bad idea.

I might consider trying to design an alternate version of this setup at some point, though.

[Mathdino]

Also like I said, the lack of ability to mislynch coupled with the fact that even a single town "hydra" not playing ball completely ruins the game makes this incredibly scumsided if you don't lynch arbitrarily.

[Mathdino]

And lol at hyung's horrible attempt to derail the lynch by calling everything I do a scumslip.

I'm glad he's not town. Would've had a lot of problems with him if he were.

[DiamondSentinel]

Ah. That's probably why in hindsight, I was dissapointed. When I think of it as "micro hydra-only game", it makes so much more sense why it bored me.

[MathBlade]

Yeah, I don't deal with VCA or voting patterns. They're wrong, in my experience, far more often than they're right.

Indeed, gg all

I've learned a couple things here:

1. I don't like vanilla/french vanilla setups unless I'm scum (Not in a "I only like playing scum" way. more "I like getting to play a chess match").
2. I don't like short games. Need multiple nights.
3. Night-talk games are weirdly more fun as scum than as town.

PEdit: Agree with MathDino. Arbitrary lynches are a bad idea.

I might consider trying to design an alternate version of this setup at some point, though.

In flipless or eternal lylo they are a huge help.

In flipful not so much. Sometimes they are okay.

[MathBlade]

I am honestly amazed Diamond didn’t tunnel me for lurking.

This game I was intentionally off trying to be better town.

[DiamondSentinel]

That is a solid point. The recent Perpetual MyLo would have been solved instantly D3 if the town had done a bit of VCA. Of course, that was because of other reasons, but I digress.

PEdit: Lurking isn't a tell for most players. The only one that comes readily to mind is Titus. I've only been wrong about her once.

[Mathdino]

You should see the shitshows that other players did with this game.

If any of you guys wanna keep talking postgame about everything I was talking about (I think a couple of you wanted to), I'm down.

Scum's best strategy is to strongly imply that they'd be completely okay with lynching each other. In this case, they gave up too soon to capitalise on it. I expect had they organised something like that, it would've fooled everyone except me (who knows scum would do that and wanted to lynch arbitrarily) and maybe a couple others.

The fact that this is their best strategy means scumhunting is utterly broken here.

I've never played a game like I've played this game, and I'd hope people don't expect that from me in the future

If I see a breaking strategy, I'll tunnel it to the end of time, but otherwise, I'm a pretty normal player for this site.

[DiamondSentinel]

Anyways, looking at my two wrong reads here (sheep and Cy), 1 was sheerly because of my personal hatred of shitposters and the other was because I found myself glossing over their posts. Suppose there's a lesson to learn here, but I'll just chalk it up to coincidence.

[Mathdino]

Sky was MVP for towning it way the fuck up under pressure, dropping his tunnel vision, and coming together on a correct lynch.

If I had to pick scum MVP it'd probably be RedFlavor, who obvtowned at the beginning. But honestly, my earlier theory was correct I think: town only wins from non-arbitrary lynches if scum plays very very poorly.

Edit: yo you were scumreading me foo'

[Mathdino]

OH YEAH AND ONE MORE THING

Townblocs are almost never filled with scum

Tora and I locktowning each other at the beginning pretty much made it game over for scum. Our voting power was equal to that of scum.

I think if this setup is run again, and towns decide not to arbitrarily lynch, I would strongly advise future towns to townhunt over scumhunt. PoE is much more valuable than weirdass associations.

[DiamondSentinel]

Incorrect.

I said on multiple occasions that you, personally, were town. MathBlade was pretty scummy, but the complete gutread on you outweighed that. My vote on you was for the exact same reason that you said I needed to die for much of the game: we were like oil and water there.

[Mathdino]

VOTE: cytheflyguy

Let's go!

As requested.

[Mathdino]

Honestly the lack of daytalk was a huge blow to my interest in this game too.

[DiamondSentinel]

As much distaste I had for your play this game and your complete reliance on a rando-lynch, I could never actually vote you for any decent amount of time. Every time I'd seek to follow it up, I'd feel my stomach knotting up. Very obviously not a good idea when that happens.

My heart and brain were competing. My heart knew what was going on, but my brain refused to accept it.

PEdit: There are many problems with this setup, or more generally, this type of setup. The lack of daytalk was hardly the worst part.

[northsidegal]

cool game guys! i was following along and it was definitely an interesting read.

[Mathdino]

Haha, NSG, any thoughts you had over the course of it?

Diamond I'm interested to hear the other flaws you think it has.

In particular I want to address the particularly low town winrate, and how town only seems to win when scum are straight up not present or are bad. The last 2 town wins had AWOL scum IIRC (early mastina and someone else).

[Toranaga]

gg everyone

gj village

thank you so much for ending this game already

good to know I eventually figured out it wasn't the sky hydra, but the redflavour hydra who was wolfing with cy

thanks llama for modding!

set fire into this setup, it's not fun at all

lol @ people trying

mathdino you have my respect