Open 705: Polygamist - Game Over
- DiamondSentinel
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DiamondSentinel Jack of All Trades
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Hello everyone. So, shall we start with claiming lovers?“Why was I chosen?'
'Such questions cannot be answered,' said Gandalf. 'You may be sure that it was not for any merit that others do not possess. But you have been chosen, and you must therefore use such strength and heart and wits as you have.”- DiamondSentinel
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DiamondSentinel Jack of All Trades
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1. Let's not play to win, so to speak. Let's just play to play a battle of wits. So, no random lynching.
2. How could claiming lovers not help? Au contraire, since it's a nigthless setup, I think it's our biggest weapon here. If we claim lovers, we force the scum into pairs to begin with. Furthermore, if we have anyone super strong (I don't necessarily know if we do), if scum pressures their partner, it makes it pretty obvious. So, scum has to be careful about pressuring 2 slots in the case of one player being spot-on or whatever.“Why was I chosen?'
'Such questions cannot be answered,' said Gandalf. 'You may be sure that it was not for any merit that others do not possess. But you have been chosen, and you must therefore use such strength and heart and wits as you have.”- DiamondSentinel
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DiamondSentinel Jack of All Trades
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Also, by claiming lovers, it lowers the pool for scum to bus from, and lower the amount of chaos we'd have.“Why was I chosen?'
'Such questions cannot be answered,' said Gandalf. 'You may be sure that it was not for any merit that others do not possess. But you have been chosen, and you must therefore use such strength and heart and wits as you have.”- DiamondSentinel
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DiamondSentinel Jack of All Trades
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Yes. While I'm sure they haven't already decided, if they have one really really townread person and one scumread person, then the TR person could take charge and say "I'm lovers with [scumread person] so if you think that they're scum, you think I'm scum". It's to our advantage to claim ASAP.In post 10, Mathdino wrote:The irreversibility of the massclaim made me want to research it more beforehand.
A really good argument in the last Polygamist game (town win) went along the same lines. Claiming lovers means scum can't suddenly decide later on in the day who their "lovers" will be and also makes their defences public.
That said, it would be foolish at this point for scum to not decide beforehand what their "lover" pairs will be so they can act it out come daystart.
So I'm still working out how it actively helps us.
PS. Ahahahaha I just got access to my lover's PT and it was just them saying "hello". Good shit. Thanks for flaking, pisskop.
Let's not dice-lynch.In post 11, Mathdino wrote:
Counterproposal. Through the day, we'll probably as a town come together on a townread of someone.In post 8, DiamondSentinel wrote:1. Let's not play to win, so to speak. Let's just play to play a battle of wits. So, no random lynching.
That person will then dice roll 2 lynches that don't include themselves or their lover.
In effect, we'll be playing kingmaker.
If we're right about the king we elect being town, we then have an exactly 70% chance of winning by sheeping them.“Why was I chosen?'
'Such questions cannot be answered,' said Gandalf. 'You may be sure that it was not for any merit that others do not possess. But you have been chosen, and you must therefore use such strength and heart and wits as you have.”- DiamondSentinel
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Oh... I was planning on waiting on others to give input since we're not even a page in.
I will wait for a little bit, and then I'll claim. I'll claim at the end of tomorrow, provided there isn't a wide outcry that this is a shit idea]. But I promise I will claim my lover (unless they decide to claim first)
Also, fuck dice lynches. This is a game of "skill" and a battle of "wits". Dice have no place in this.“Why was I chosen?'
'Such questions cannot be answered,' said Gandalf. 'You may be sure that it was not for any merit that others do not possess. But you have been chosen, and you must therefore use such strength and heart and wits as you have.”- DiamondSentinel
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DiamondSentinel Jack of All Trades
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I play to win, too. But I still intend to enjoy myself and get that feeling of "pride and accomplishment" people are always talking about. As such, if you guys dice-lynch, I will replace out immediately, unless the moderator amends the rules to state that you can't dice-lynch (which many mods have anyways)“Why was I chosen?'
'Such questions cannot be answered,' said Gandalf. 'You may be sure that it was not for any merit that others do not possess. But you have been chosen, and you must therefore use such strength and heart and wits as you have.”- DiamondSentinel
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I read it. I was just musing about possible strategies. Anyways, as my partner said, I’m not exactly sure how best to find scum in this situation.In post 80, Sky_Paladin wrote:I guess what we are looking for is the set of interactions between declared groups that seem suspicious. If you think of every player group as a hydra, we're looking for the two hydra's that have shady interactions.
So with that in mind I think that the mass claim is probably for the best, and in flagrant disregard of what my lover said earlier, I'll go ahead and declare that I'm paired with DiamonSentinel. Interestingly we both independently hated on the dice routine.
In our topic we basically discussed what the setup was because apparently neither of us read it before signing up, then freaking out when we realised that we had no idea how to scumhunt in this scenario, and then to claim or not claim. We decided we'd just go with the flow, so, here I am, flowing away.
That kinda sounds gross :V
I want to hear everyone sizing up on the rising MathDino wagon. While I don’t like MathDino, I’m a bit contested. In particular, I want amrochora to give some input, because a scumread on Math means a scumread on you.“Why was I chosen?'
'Such questions cannot be answered,' said Gandalf. 'You may be sure that it was not for any merit that others do not possess. But you have been chosen, and you must therefore use such strength and heart and wits as you have.”- DiamondSentinel
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Coincidentally, I also want to hear from sheep’s partner. They (sheep) are yapping their gums a lot and it looks like it’s scum trying to bog down the thread.“Why was I chosen?'
'Such questions cannot be answered,' said Gandalf. 'You may be sure that it was not for any merit that others do not possess. But you have been chosen, and you must therefore use such strength and heart and wits as you have.”- DiamondSentinel
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I'm not discrediting you. It's just that if I wanted to just go with sheer randomness, I'd go to Vegas. The mentality that "they disagree with me so they must be scum" is absolutely fucking stupid, and for someone who's played mafia as long as you have to say that is absolutely pathetic.
Also, when you addressed my partner with the whole "They bus when applicable" thing, scum do that in every game. Welcome to the game of mafia, kiddo.“Why was I chosen?'
'Such questions cannot be answered,' said Gandalf. 'You may be sure that it was not for any merit that others do not possess. But you have been chosen, and you must therefore use such strength and heart and wits as you have.”- DiamondSentinel
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I'm not saying your idea is wrong. That's clearly false (although considering that town loses this more often than not in practice, we can't count on theory). I'm saying that I'm not willing to play that way.
So, naturally, that means that my read on you and my dislike of your idea are disconnected.
PEdit: Also, if you don't trust your scumreads, then sheep people. The answer to "I don't trust my instincts" is not to say "so fuck everyone else's, let's random vote!"“Why was I chosen?'
'Such questions cannot be answered,' said Gandalf. 'You may be sure that it was not for any merit that others do not possess. But you have been chosen, and you must therefore use such strength and heart and wits as you have.”- DiamondSentinel
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Huh. The amount of accord between Sky and me is unreal, especially considering our planning during the pre-game phase was "Hey, I have no idea what to do, do you?" "Nope" "Oh cool. Well, let's just wing it"“Why was I chosen?'
'Such questions cannot be answered,' said Gandalf. 'You may be sure that it was not for any merit that others do not possess. But you have been chosen, and you must therefore use such strength and heart and wits as you have.”- DiamondSentinel
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1. Just make the posts with actually god damned content or post elsewhere. 100 posts in a game is easy.In post 112, manrock wrote:
questionIn post 111, Mathdino wrote:If anyone doesn't believe me on the math side of things, I can write a script in Python (or any programming language that someone else here can verify) that simulates 100 games and shows the winrate.
I'm bored and I could use the programming exercise so Imma go do that now.
If we go down the math route can you guys let me make 100 posts this game regardless, so i can go into speakeasy?
2. Why the fuck do you want to join the speakeasy? It’s the shittiest part of the forum, filled with horrible drama political arguing, and just general shiftiness.“Why was I chosen?'
'Such questions cannot be answered,' said Gandalf. 'You may be sure that it was not for any merit that others do not possess. But you have been chosen, and you must therefore use such strength and heart and wits as you have.”- DiamondSentinel
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How about this. Let’s lynch MathDino, and if they turn out to be town, we can random Lynch tomorrow.“Why was I chosen?'
'Such questions cannot be answered,' said Gandalf. 'You may be sure that it was not for any merit that others do not possess. But you have been chosen, and you must therefore use such strength and heart and wits as you have.”- DiamondSentinel
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I’m suggesting that he’s scum because he’s scummy.In post 129, RedFlavor wrote:I dont really think that mathdino is scum because he was right when he told there were too many town losses and expected winrate is higher when you roll the dice, a scum would not do that
Also why are you suggesting to lynch him“Why was I chosen?'
'Such questions cannot be answered,' said Gandalf. 'You may be sure that it was not for any merit that others do not possess. But you have been chosen, and you must therefore use such strength and heart and wits as you have.”- DiamondSentinel
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But the probability of hitting scum with MathDino is exactly the same as if we lynch randomly.In post 132, sheepsaysmeep wrote:
this is bullshitIn post 128, DiamondSentinel wrote:How about this. Let’s lynch MathDino, and if they turn out to be town, we can random Lynch tomorrow.
only one random lynch has low chance of hitting scum“Why was I chosen?'
'Such questions cannot be answered,' said Gandalf. 'You may be sure that it was not for any merit that others do not possess. But you have been chosen, and you must therefore use such strength and heart and wits as you have.”- DiamondSentinel
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Winrate around 50%. Well that’s fine.In post 135, Mathdino wrote:
This is also correct.In post 132, sheepsaysmeep wrote:
this is bullshitIn post 128, DiamondSentinel wrote:How about this. Let’s lynch MathDino, and if they turn out to be town, we can random Lynch tomorrow.
only one random lynch has low chance of hitting scum
I could crunch the numbers on our winrate if we made a purposeful D1 lynch and then an arbitrary one tomorrow (such as one decided by the team we lynch today). I'd expect the winrate to be around 50%, but I'm not sure.
Now shut the fuck up about random lynching and actually play the game. If you want to rando-lynch, go to fucking Vegas.“Why was I chosen?'
'Such questions cannot be answered,' said Gandalf. 'You may be sure that it was not for any merit that others do not possess. But you have been chosen, and you must therefore use such strength and heart and wits as you have.”- DiamondSentinel
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Naturally you’d TR someone in your randolynch circlejerkIn post 144, sheepsaysmeep wrote:im hard tr'ing mathdino“Why was I chosen?'
'Such questions cannot be answered,' said Gandalf. 'You may be sure that it was not for any merit that others do not possess. But you have been chosen, and you must therefore use such strength and heart and wits as you have.”- DiamondSentinel
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My apologies. When I sent that, I was standing in line to check luggage that had taken an hour to get 5 people and was so slow I nearly missed my plane. So naturally I'd be a bit on edge.
My point still stands. Rando-lynching is a crappy idea, and regardless of whether or not I SR Math, I would have still pushed for his PL“Why was I chosen?'
'Such questions cannot be answered,' said Gandalf. 'You may be sure that it was not for any merit that others do not possess. But you have been chosen, and you must therefore use such strength and heart and wits as you have.”- DiamondSentinel
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Only scum would give such a blatantly biased TL;DR like that. You're definitely scum“Why was I chosen?'
'Such questions cannot be answered,' said Gandalf. 'You may be sure that it was not for any merit that others do not possess. But you have been chosen, and you must therefore use such strength and heart and wits as you have.”- DiamondSentinel
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VOTE: Toranaga
This slot is bad. His lover isn't much better.“Why was I chosen?'
'Such questions cannot be answered,' said Gandalf. 'You may be sure that it was not for any merit that others do not possess. But you have been chosen, and you must therefore use such strength and heart and wits as you have.”- DiamondSentinel
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I must say, the activity in this game is staggering....
Although that's probably at least partially due to sheep's shitposting, and the competing circlejerks.“Why was I chosen?'
'Such questions cannot be answered,' said Gandalf. 'You may be sure that it was not for any merit that others do not possess. But you have been chosen, and you must therefore use such strength and heart and wits as you have.”- DiamondSentinel
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Echo this, as well. As much as I detest Dino and everything they stand for in this game, I also agree that they don't sound like scum. I'll change my vote to the partner that my partner is voting. Out of all the pairs consistently posting, this is definitely the scummiest. I just hope that the scum isn't playing that lurk game...In post 218, Sky_Paladin wrote:I’m vla for another 48 hours.
VOTE: sheep I’ll echo Diamond here re shitposting but I’m more concerned with the flippant and mutual townreads sheep and Dino gave each other for no real reason that I can see. However I’m leaning town on Dino atm so.
More of a let’s get this party started than a kill this player out of the game vote.
Hey Sheep, what’s with the page top business?
L
VOTE: Sheep“Why was I chosen?'
'Such questions cannot be answered,' said Gandalf. 'You may be sure that it was not for any merit that others do not possess. But you have been chosen, and you must therefore use such strength and heart and wits as you have.”- DiamondSentinel
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I saw the easter egg. I just chose to ignore it.In post 249, Mathdino wrote:i'm just gonna point out that absolutely no one read my tl;dr all the way through and i know this because of an easter egg i put in it“Why was I chosen?'
'Such questions cannot be answered,' said Gandalf. 'You may be sure that it was not for any merit that others do not possess. But you have been chosen, and you must therefore use such strength and heart and wits as you have.”- DiamondSentinel
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In post 257, Mathdino wrote:@Everyone:You know the post by post tl;dr I did of the longer posts in the game?
I want everyone to post a tl;dr of their lover PTs with every single post included. Even if your lover already did.I am going to blatantly refuse this, and I humbly suggest SkyPaladin to do the same.
I'm done playing your games, Dino. I thought you were just dumbass town, but now I'm convinced that you're scum grasping at whatever straws you can get.
VOTE: Dino“Why was I chosen?'
'Such questions cannot be answered,' said Gandalf. 'You may be sure that it was not for any merit that others do not possess. But you have been chosen, and you must therefore use such strength and heart and wits as you have.”- DiamondSentinel
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1. Try to actually scumhunt. Don't rely on slips or whatever. SlipsIn post 319, Mathdino wrote:I admittedly over-rely on slips. I consider your opening to be townslippy enough to consider you town.
So I'll revise.
I can't scumhunt in this game the way that Sky, Diamond, Lalendra, and cy want me to, because day associations are bullshit.
I do believe I can scumhunt through baiting scumslips and figuring out who's lying about their PTs though, because that doesn't rely on the "there are 2 hydrae who are scum together and will interact weirdly in the day thread" theory.
Problem is scumslips almost never actually happen and I didn't expect a situation as blatant as this.neveractually happen. Not almost never.Never. Additionally, stop trying to think this through logically. Mafia is a social game. Social interactions, are by their very nature, illogical. Rather, rely on your gut to determine who is scum and who is not. Your subconscious is a lot better at discerning people's nature than your conscious brain. That's why I'm still wishy washy about my vote on you. I can't tell if you're just ick town, or truly scum.
2. Just because someone's playstyle doesn't strictly align with yours does not make them scum. I detest your playstyle, and how you insist on relying on logic alone, completely removing the social aspect from the game, and it seems that you feel similarly about my playstyle. That's fine. You can refuse to align yourself with my playstyle, and I am going to do the same anyways. Relying on private topics for inconsistencies or scumslips justdoesn't work. So I refuse to take part in it.
3. I'm refusing to join in your PT-slip witch hunt out of principle. Nothing more.“Why was I chosen?'
'Such questions cannot be answered,' said Gandalf. 'You may be sure that it was not for any merit that others do not possess. But you have been chosen, and you must therefore use such strength and heart and wits as you have.”- DiamondSentinel
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1. Son, you ain't seen nothin yet. I'm fairly accurate, and jokes on you, all my reads are gut. I'm just not charismatic enough to convince others because they insist on "proof" and other lies.In post 323, Mathdino wrote:Getting tired of this.
1. I've already given massive mountains of evidence that playing this setup socially is anti-town. Gutreads are, in most games, abysmal. The hilarious thing though is I'm gut-townreading Tora/sheep and you're also giving me shit for that.
"ick town" trying to push the objectively pro-town strategythat you already agreed was pro-town, and you still accuse me of playing badly. Jesus christ. If you have that little respect for me, meta my towngames and my scumgames to at least see I'm a legitimately good player and I mold my playstyle to my role (role, not alignment) and the setup. Maybe then we can stop this slapfight.
2. Oh screw you. I'm not doing anything to actively stop you from scumhunting. But you're actively hampering the way I play the game. You complain about no content to read. I'm trying to produce content to gut read.
3. ahahahahaha that feel when people's principles lose games
oh man i see this shit all the time
2. Oh, but you are. You've been filling the game with unusable content which is letting the scum hide. Which is why I've determined to lynch you today. Either you're scum hiding other scum (yay) or you're town letting the scum hide. Either way, you gotta go.
3. My principle has yet to lose me a game, tyvm“Why was I chosen?'
'Such questions cannot be answered,' said Gandalf. 'You may be sure that it was not for any merit that others do not possess. But you have been chosen, and you must therefore use such strength and heart and wits as you have.”- DiamondSentinel
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Not liking this cy wagon much at all. Considering neither him nor his lover are really defending themselves, it leaves a bad taste in my mouth.“Why was I chosen?'
'Such questions cannot be answered,' said Gandalf. 'You may be sure that it was not for any merit that others do not possess. But you have been chosen, and you must therefore use such strength and heart and wits as you have.”- DiamondSentinel
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Exactly my point.In post 361, Lalendra wrote:Honestly I've kind of given up, if I'm going to get lynched D1 because of arbitrary random voting and math, then what's the point in defending? Nothing I say matters if we're just playing the lottery.“Why was I chosen?'
'Such questions cannot be answered,' said Gandalf. 'You may be sure that it was not for any merit that others do not possess. But you have been chosen, and you must therefore use such strength and heart and wits as you have.”- DiamondSentinel
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Math, let me put it simply for you.
In this setup, scum are almostentirelyincapable of bussing more than one vote at a time. Scum has one loss; that's it. They can't use bussing to get towncred from a flip. (I had originally considered making this a really really big long drawn-out paragraph but I don't really have much more to say. Bussing is just a bad idea for scum.)
Basically, what I was getting at is this: if you think that cy is scum, you're saying that we are the most likely scum-pair.Is that the hill you are willing to die on?
PEdit: Do scum have daychat? I'm gonna guess that there's no hard defending no matter who the wagon is.
And anyways, I'm not counterwagoning. I've been pushing other people the entire time. I just simple don't SR cy.“Why was I chosen?'
'Such questions cannot be answered,' said Gandalf. 'You may be sure that it was not for any merit that others do not possess. But you have been chosen, and you must therefore use such strength and heart and wits as you have.”- DiamondSentinel
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1. That is strictly because of misassumptions by the town. If town avoids making stupid assumptions like that, then bussing is a bad decision.In post 411, Mathdino wrote:
1. I disagree with this 100% and I recommend reading the history of the setup (especially in the cases that mafia won) to see why that's incorrect.In post 408, DiamondSentinel wrote:In this setup, scum are almostentirelyincapable of bussing more than one vote at a time. Scum has one loss; that's it. They can't use bussing to get towncred from a flip. (I had originally considered making this a really really big long drawn-out paragraph but I don't really have much more to say. Bussing is just a bad idea for scum.)
Basically, what I was getting at is this: if you think that cy is scum, you're saying that we are the most likely scum-pair.Is that the hill you are willing to die on?
PEdit: Do scum have daychat? I'm gonna guess that there's no hard defending no matter who the wagon is.
And anyways, I'm not counterwagoning. I've been pushing other people the entire time. I just simple don't SR cy.
Scum uses bussing to make it look like the wagon is on town. Because if everyone wants to lynch someone, that someone must be town right? (no)
2. Uh, that's a weird question. Sky said that if cy/Lal are scum, there'd probably be a ton of outrage/counterwagoning from another hydra. I pointed out that you guys are literally that hydra, and by his own logic, from my standpoint, cy/Lal could still be scum. That logic works much better if you know that you guys are town.
And I'm not gonna do a "lynch me if I'm wrong" thing, that would be stupid (is that what you're asking?). Like, if cy/Lal are town, then you guys get massive towncred from voting other people all day and giving me/Sheep a ton of pushback on the idea.
3. Don't think so, IIRC from reading the role PMs.
4. Whether or not you intend to counterwagon (or believe it's justified) doesn't change the fact that that's what you're doing. Counterwagoning doesn't have to be intentional.
2. That's not what I'm asking. What I'm asking is for you to realize that this doesn't exist on an isolated stage. Thinking that cy/Lal is scum doesn't exempt you from consequent assumptions: ergo that myself and Sky are the most likely other scum pair.
4. And yet you still tried to make the claim that we were scum without actually making it.“Why was I chosen?'
'Such questions cannot be answered,' said Gandalf. 'You may be sure that it was not for any merit that others do not possess. But you have been chosen, and you must therefore use such strength and heart and wits as you have.”- DiamondSentinel
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Is it Tor? Because that's the most likely scum-slot in that list aside from you and sheep.In post 435, Mathdino wrote:Wait okay I found scum guys. Never reread the early game lol.
Read pages 1 and 2 (the source of the best reads) and see how I know a certain couple of players are scum.“Why was I chosen?'
'Such questions cannot be answered,' said Gandalf. 'You may be sure that it was not for any merit that others do not possess. But you have been chosen, and you must therefore use such strength and heart and wits as you have.”- DiamondSentinel
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All my reads are gut.In post 437, Mathdino wrote:
If that's your guess, tell me how I know.In post 436, DiamondSentinel wrote:
Is it Tor? Because that's the most likely scum-slot in that list aside from you and sheep.In post 435, Mathdino wrote:Wait okay I found scum guys. Never reread the early game lol.
Read pages 1 and 2 (the source of the best reads) and see how I know a certain couple of players are scum.“Why was I chosen?'
'Such questions cannot be answered,' said Gandalf. 'You may be sure that it was not for any merit that others do not possess. But you have been chosen, and you must therefore use such strength and heart and wits as you have.”- DiamondSentinel
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Welcome to my struggle this entire game.In post 460, MathBlade wrote:Isn’t that like against site rules?“Why was I chosen?'
'Such questions cannot be answered,' said Gandalf. 'You may be sure that it was not for any merit that others do not possess. But you have been chosen, and you must therefore use such strength and heart and wits as you have.”- DiamondSentinel
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I told Sky to hide it because Sky was an unknown in my strategy. If I could control what they did, then that would remove a wild-card from my "team's" actions.In post 537, MathBlade wrote:
You mean here?In post 80, Sky_Paladin wrote:I guess what we are looking for is the set of interactions between declared groups that seem suspicious. If you think of every player group as a hydra, we're looking for the two hydra's that have shady interactions.
So with that in mind I think that the mass claim is probably for the best, and in flagrant disregard of what my lover said earlier, I'll go ahead and declare that I'm paired with DiamonSentinel. Interestingly we both independently hated on the dice routine.
In our topic we basically discussed what the setup was because apparently neither of us read it before signing up, then freaking out when we realised that we had no idea how to scumhunt in this scenario, and then to claim or not claim. We decided we'd just go with the flow, so, here I am, flowing away.
That kinda sounds gross :V
Why did you claim despite your claim that your lover suggesting you hide it?“Why was I chosen?'
'Such questions cannot be answered,' said Gandalf. 'You may be sure that it was not for any merit that others do not possess. But you have been chosen, and you must therefore use such strength and heart and wits as you have.”- DiamondSentinel
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1. "Let's do what other games have done" is a bad sentiment because the actual winrate is horribly below what it should be.In post 617, Mathdino wrote: - okay so Diamond wants to claim, but that's irreversible, so lemme check first
- wait okay i saw a game that said we should wait for claims
- wait but the scum probably already planned out the claims anyway, so yeah i might as well claim
- okay a random lynch is pro-town, but how the hell are we gonna achieve a random lynch?
- the rest of the town has absolutely 0 reason to trust me. i'm never going to personally roll a die that could land on me. but from an observer's standpoint, if i'm scum and i roll, scum wins 70%. so in order to show good faith in my strategy, i need to find a townie and get them to do it.
- tora seems town and the way they're acting towards me seems pretty town.
- okay i'll lock them as town and try to get them to roll the dice and see what the rest of the town thinks about it
- okay the town fucking hates that idea but their RVS vote is equivalent to a random vote. so i can show the same good faith by sheeping that initial random vote and following their vote anywhere, because sheep's reads are equivalent to a dice roll.
2. Have some good sportsmanship, kiddo. Random lynching isn't sportsmanlike. It's just boring. See: Most every other post I made on the topic.
3. Hey, there's a decent thought process that I can actually discuss. So, yes, RVS is random voting. That's the point of it.However, RVS isn't the be-all-end-all, and should never be. Rather it jumpstarts the game. Which is what it didn't get the chance to do.
But enough theory talk. On the last one, why did you sheep sheep? You claim to think exclusively logically, but you have yet to give me good reasons why sheep is town.“Why was I chosen?'
'Such questions cannot be answered,' said Gandalf. 'You may be sure that it was not for any merit that others do not possess. But you have been chosen, and you must therefore use such strength and heart and wits as you have.”- DiamondSentinel
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Which is where I'm conflicted.In post 625, momo wrote:Spoiler: mathdino self iso
You have achieved status.....hard core town read!
My gut says hardcore town. Everything's genuine. But if they're truly only going to sheep sheep, then I can't allow either them or sheep to get to tomorrow. Because I'm not convinced that Math is willing to open their mind to the possibility (probability) that sheep is scum. Also, the fact that I just can't consciously believe that they could possibly be town.
But at some point, I'll probably just give up and let my gut take over.
If you want to avoid people manipulating you, read the posts without reading who posted it. Your subconscious will sort through things way better than you can, because you're peppered with emotion. The gut is just naturally good at determining whether to trust people. When you find a good post, look at the name and amend your reads.In post 626, Mathdino wrote:I'll give you even more, because I seriously don't want questions on this shit.
Tora was my very first townread. I believe this makes that read more worthwhile. Over the course of the next few pages (read them) I came to a lowkey townread on RedFlavor/manrock but no other real reads. I thought about how everything I was reading was basically null and realised that this setup is shit for me because I scumhunt at my best with flips.
I believe that more time without lynching gives scum more time to manipulate me or learn to figure out what I townread people for. I literally asked the mod to SHORTEN the deadline so we can actually get a flip. With the exception of that early townread, almost all of my tells became null over the next 20 pages, as I realised that people were figuring out what I might read them for and thus scum would act in such a way as to get townread.
The moment I suggested a strategy of "Let's find the towniest townie" and "Let's PoE" I had to start nulling things. Every scum would want to be in that PoE block. And there's no accountability for that hypothetical PoE block because 2 lynches and we lose.
So that's why my reads haven't budged. I'm also afraid that my read was originally right (often my earliest strongest read is right) and any discussion with you guys would lead to either
A. You guys manipulating me out of my read
or
B. You guys manipulating EVERYONE ELSE out of my read. And I needed another pair that I believe is town and that everyone else believes is town in order for my strategy to be manipulated.
Edit: I don't intend you to, sheep.
Of course, this could be a crock of shit. I'm spitballing here.“Why was I chosen?'
'Such questions cannot be answered,' said Gandalf. 'You may be sure that it was not for any merit that others do not possess. But you have been chosen, and you must therefore use such strength and heart and wits as you have.”- DiamondSentinel
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You could just not lynch me. I mean, you admit here that you think I'd say the exact same thing town or scum. So why are you attempting to lynch me? Is it because I've been at odds with your 2 biggest efforts here?In post 628, Mathdino wrote:Yeah I mean. I don't doubt that what you're telling me is exactly identical to what you'd tell me as town. And you I think you at this point believe that what I'm telling you is also what I'd tell you as town. We're at a playstyle impasse.
I mean would you be more comfortable if I promised you that against all my wishes I'll just lynch sheep/Tora tomorrow after you die? My issue is that I've already established myself as locking sheep as town, and breaking that promise would fully give everyone the right to lynch me for that.I'dlynch me for that. I'm not in the business of doing things that literally make me deserve a lynch under my own principles.“Why was I chosen?'
'Such questions cannot be answered,' said Gandalf. 'You may be sure that it was not for any merit that others do not possess. But you have been chosen, and you must therefore use such strength and heart and wits as you have.”- DiamondSentinel
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I didn't explain everything to my partner because I just came out of Perpetual MyLo, where, for the most part, everyone else in the scum team was incompetent and screwed everything up. This is roughly the same deal: I'm teamed with someone, and we have to work together to win the game. I came in not trusting anyone, especially my own partner.In post 631, MathBlade wrote:
Then why not explain the entire plan to your partner?In post 603, DiamondSentinel wrote:
I told Sky to hide it because Sky was an unknown in my strategy. If I could control what they did, then that would remove a wild-card from my "team's" actions.In post 537, MathBlade wrote:
You mean here?In post 80, Sky_Paladin wrote:I guess what we are looking for is the set of interactions between declared groups that seem suspicious. If you think of every player group as a hydra, we're looking for the two hydra's that have shady interactions.
So with that in mind I think that the mass claim is probably for the best, and in flagrant disregard of what my lover said earlier, I'll go ahead and declare that I'm paired with DiamonSentinel. Interestingly we both independently hated on the dice routine.
In our topic we basically discussed what the setup was because apparently neither of us read it before signing up, then freaking out when we realised that we had no idea how to scumhunt in this scenario, and then to claim or not claim. We decided we'd just go with the flow, so, here I am, flowing away.
That kinda sounds gross :V
Why did you claim despite your claim that your lover suggesting you hide it?
That’s what I am not following.
It feels like Sky just made up something and y’all are scrambling to justify it.
Furthermore do you have a townread on Lalendra or cytheflyguy?
I do have a null!town on Lalendra. Cy hasn't done anything noteworthy.“Why was I chosen?'
'Such questions cannot be answered,' said Gandalf. 'You may be sure that it was not for any merit that others do not possess. But you have been chosen, and you must therefore use such strength and heart and wits as you have.”- DiamondSentinel
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You realize that you don't have to win every battle in order to get a lynch. Your "utility" lynch is a shitty reason. If you don't believe that I would work with you, then you could go for my partner.In post 630, Mathdino wrote:
This current conversation you've been having with me, and the last 5 billion convos you've been having with me about theory, are not why I or my partner is scumreading you.In post 629, DiamondSentinel wrote:You could just not lynch me. I mean, you admit here that you think I'd say the exact same thing town or scum. So why are you attempting to lynch me? Is it because I've been at odds with your 2 biggest efforts here?
It's kind of a utility lynch. I don't believe, at this point, that you'll vote with the townbloc I'm personally relying on for LyLo. I believe your read on me has been too set in stone for that. So assuming you're town, if I don't lynch you today, then I have to 100% find the scumteam today. And my strategy doesn't have any way to reliably find scum on D1. The point is to aggregate D1 and D2.
Yes, it's lowkey OMGUS, but here's an analogy.
You're a townie with 1 scum left. 5 players. One player who is a little scummy by association has been gunning for you the whole game. You have little reason to believe they'll change their mind in LyLo. Furthermore, you know for sure that if they're town, scum will leave them alive and let them lynch you in LyLo.
You can't lynch scum if they're alive tomorrow unless scum happens to be them and you can convince the remaining townie. But the player has a chance at convincing that townie.
So you prepare yourself for LyLo by lynching that player, praying to god they're scum (and they are scummy) and then saying, well, I had to lynch someone only for them to flip town, I'd rather it be them. This at least puts you in an okay spot later on.
I'm honestly not sure any of the above is even town indicative. I haven't thought through it but it's possibly also scum's ideal strategy if they were in my slot.
We're at a really really weird impasse.
I assume you want me to lynch sheep/Tora today.
But regardless.
Your analogy just doesn't make sense to me. Nobody's reads are unshakable. I thrive on reversing peoples reads. Or at least delaying it as long as possible. Kinda my trademark. The only thing that I would ever suggest a policy/utility lynch for would be just straight-up bad play; someone [cough sheep coughrefusing to actually try in the game. To say "this person disagrees with me so we should lynch them" is almost exactly like a scum telling their buddies "this person is on to us, so kill them".
As for the sheep/tora lynch? Yes. It's definitely my strongest read. Sheep is blatantly scum, and also is just playing (if you can even call it that) shittily. He's not even trying. Regular lynch + policy lynch = yes please lynch“Why was I chosen?'
'Such questions cannot be answered,' said Gandalf. 'You may be sure that it was not for any merit that others do not possess. But you have been chosen, and you must therefore use such strength and heart and wits as you have.”- DiamondSentinel
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Since you replaced in, I've been keeping up almost none at all. I'm just in an extended conversation with Dino. That's why I'm essentially jsut responding to him, aside from a couple posts here and there.In post 645, MathBlade wrote:I am just curious. Diamond Sentinel has played with me enough to read me.
Yet he only talks Dino. Why? Because Diamond is scum.
RL's a bitch. I'm just catching up real fast before I go to bed. Which is to say, in about 10 minutes.
Kindly don't lynch me while I'm asleep. Bitch move. And the rest of the town, if someone does hammer me overnight, please lynch them with fire tomorrow. kthanks“Why was I chosen?'
'Such questions cannot be answered,' said Gandalf. 'You may be sure that it was not for any merit that others do not possess. But you have been chosen, and you must therefore use such strength and heart and wits as you have.”- DiamondSentinel
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In other news, Sky, stop fucking wagon hopping. It's hard enough for me to deal with this wagon without you floundering here and there.
Anyways, VOTE: sheep. This is where my vote stays for the rest of the day.
(Oh, also, Math, would you stop sucking at reading me? This is 3 games in a row you've misread me completely)“Why was I chosen?'
'Such questions cannot be answered,' said Gandalf. 'You may be sure that it was not for any merit that others do not possess. But you have been chosen, and you must therefore use such strength and heart and wits as you have.”- DiamondSentinel
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Get me the supposed townslips, and I'll start delving into Tora's meta. But as it is right now, I haven't seen any townslips (also, do note that I likely won't believe any of them are truly townslips. Neither town, nor scumslips happen and are caught. The only ones I personally know about are slips that happen and just skirt by because nobody thinks about them. Blatant ones seemingly never happen.In post 665, Mathdino wrote:
You seem not only unaware of sheep's meta of being shitty but also not willing to consider it.In post 660, DiamondSentinel wrote:The only thing that I would ever suggest a policy/utility lynch for would be just straight-up bad play; someone [cough sheep cough refusing to actually try in the game. To say "this person disagrees with me so we should lynch them" is almost exactly like a scum telling their buddies "this person is on to us, so kill them".
As for the sheep/tora lynch? Yes. It's definitely my strongest read. Sheep is blatantly scum, and also is just playing (if you can even call it that) shittily. He's not even trying. Regular lynch + policy lynch = yes please lynch
@Sky/Diamond:I'll give you guys a chance here.
I need you to do 2 things to shake my sheep read.
1.sheep: This looks strongly like policy territory. I need you to do a case that points out scum motivation in his posts and gets me a scumpartner set. I'm obviously personally disinclined to lynch someone who's at least willing to follow my logic. And don't give me the general "oh sheep skates along and does nothing all game" because you know, I replaced into his townslot once, I know this. Literally a shitposting middle schooler.
2.Tora: The reason I'm not shaking this read is the repeated townslips. I need you to get me evidence (ideally based on meta) that "townslips" are NAI and are faked by Tora. Also need evidence for open buddying of town. That part less so.
Do this and I'll strongly consider voting either sheep/Tora, or whomever you think is their partner (I would be more comfortable with this).
It's a gut read, kiddo. Just like I've got you in a gut-town read, despite everything, she's in the same boat right here.In post 666, Mathdino wrote:
Also how the fuck are you nulltowning Lalendra?In post 659, DiamondSentinel wrote:I do have a null!town on Lalendra. Cy hasn't done anything noteworthy.
I asked her for a Last Will set of reads and she completely ignored it. Wtf in her ISO indicates town?
Talk to me as if you believe I'm town. I'm obviously unwilling to listen to "she pushed against the scum in you/sheep/Tora".
(Also, what was that second part? I don't quite understand it)“Why was I chosen?'
'Such questions cannot be answered,' said Gandalf. 'You may be sure that it was not for any merit that others do not possess. But you have been chosen, and you must therefore use such strength and heart and wits as you have.”- DiamondSentinel
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Ah, good. So the mod lied to me in deadchat. Regardless, I asked one question in deadchat and then left. That game disgusted me. Unprofessional modding promoted a toxic play environment.In post 675, MathBlade wrote:
Uhmmm the last game that just finished I was scum sooo I didn’t read you and this is notably different? If you’re gonna say I suck be factual about it.In post 663, DiamondSentinel wrote:In other news, Sky, stop fucking wagon hopping. It's hard enough for me to deal with this wagon without you floundering here and there.
Anyways, VOTE: sheep. This is where my vote stays for the rest of the day.
(Oh, also, Math, would you stop sucking at reading me? This is 3 games in a row you've misread me completely)
I don’t see sheep being scum like ever.“Why was I chosen?'
'Such questions cannot be answered,' said Gandalf. 'You may be sure that it was not for any merit that others do not possess. But you have been chosen, and you must therefore use such strength and heart and wits as you have.”- DiamondSentinel
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Anyways, game at hand. MathBlade, why exactly do you insist that I'm scum here? My wagon seems to have sprouted because Dino didn't agree with my sentiments, sheep blatantly OMGUSing, and then everyone sheeping him because shitposting?“Why was I chosen?'
'Such questions cannot be answered,' said Gandalf. 'You may be sure that it was not for any merit that others do not possess. But you have been chosen, and you must therefore use such strength and heart and wits as you have.”- DiamondSentinel
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Yay... So it's nothing to do with me.In post 685, MathBlade wrote:
Wagon analysis and your partner’s wagon flopping looks like flirting with danger.In post 679, DiamondSentinel wrote:Anyways, game at hand. MathBlade, why exactly do you insist that I'm scum here? My wagon seems to have sprouted because Dino didn't agree with my sentiments, sheep blatantly OMGUSing, and then everyone sheeping him because shitposting?
You asked why I didn't tell my partner my plan? This is why.“Why was I chosen?'
'Such questions cannot be answered,' said Gandalf. 'You may be sure that it was not for any merit that others do not possess. But you have been chosen, and you must therefore use such strength and heart and wits as you have.”- DiamondSentinel
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So, since nobody seems keen on actually reading what I'm saying, I'll go ahead and spell out the progression of my thought process.
Pre-game:
Wow. Perpetual MyLo fucking sucked, so I can't trust anyone, especially people I know are on my team. Time to go solo at this.
Game-start:
Information is our goal here. The sooner we can lock the scum into associations, the less wiggle room they have, and the more we have to work with.
[enter MathDino] Oh great... Already talk of a rando-lynch.
[inaudible screeching] fuck rando-lynch
If they don't stop talking about rando-lynch, I will replace out. I'll give them like 3 days.
Meat and Potatoes of the Game:
Well, I can't convince anyone worth a damn, so as long as my partner is making intelligent lynches that I'm not completely opposed to, I guess I'll just sheep them. Not a huge fan, but that gets us 2 guaranteed votes on a wagon, so it's a start.
Oh hey, this is going terribly. These votes are getting more and more spastic.
Aaaaaaand now there's a wagon. Everyone's my enemy here; go on the defensive.
Hey, more flailing by my partner. plz stop
Fighting Math and Math. Not exactly my favorite situation to be in...
Welp, if I die here, I'm gonna assume it's auto-lose for town. I've seen nothing to the contrary to suggest that the town isn't going to let scum lead them straight off a cliff.“Why was I chosen?'
'Such questions cannot be answered,' said Gandalf. 'You may be sure that it was not for any merit that others do not possess. But you have been chosen, and you must therefore use such strength and heart and wits as you have.”- DiamondSentinel
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And now we here! My to-do list.
- Don't bother ISOing MathDino. As much as they piss me off, I'm going with them being town. Same with MathBlade. There will be negligible progress there, if any.
- Don't bother ISOing sheep. 100% shitposting
- Maybe site-ISO Tor? I dunno. I don't even see any townslips in their ISO, which also knocks MathDino off the townlist quite a lot, tbh. Until Math actually tells me the supposed townslip, this is not happening.
- Investigate whether or not anyone else has a worthy ISO. Momo's putting up some red flags here and there. Lal and Cy could use an ISO to see if they are really worthy of my townread. Kop doesn't have enough content, looking at his ISO length. (But momo and Cy both have only marginally more content. This is not working out in my favor)
“Why was I chosen?'
'Such questions cannot be answered,' said Gandalf. 'You may be sure that it was not for any merit that others do not possess. But you have been chosen, and you must therefore use such strength and heart and wits as you have.”- DiamondSentinel
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The first thing is completely not a townslip. The second thing is likely not a townslip, or else I've been townslipping myself the entire time because I never know who anyone's lovers are. I only vaguely know now because of all the wagons.In post 708, Mathdino wrote:Self thought progression checks out.
Tora townslip is forgetting who his lover was and then forgetting who other people's lovers are. Also buddying up to me should be a major red flag/thing-to-avoid as scum.
The third is a townslip because.... why?“Why was I chosen?'
'Such questions cannot be answered,' said Gandalf. 'You may be sure that it was not for any merit that others do not possess. But you have been chosen, and you must therefore use such strength and heart and wits as you have.”- DiamondSentinel
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Alright math. You have a possible team. If you are truly as open to me being town as you suggest you are, then let's pursue sheep/tora/red/manrock as a team. I don't remember anything noteworthy from the latter two, but the former 2 are hitting some red flags.“Why was I chosen?'
'Such questions cannot be answered,' said Gandalf. 'You may be sure that it was not for any merit that others do not possess. But you have been chosen, and you must therefore use such strength and heart and wits as you have.”- DiamondSentinel
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Read (as much as it pains me) The Mod is Mafia. That was my exact sentiment there, kiddo. Don't act like you can case me like you can everyone else on-site. I'm convinced that a town that would mislynch me is just laying down and letting the mafia walk all over them.In post 720, Mathdino wrote:
wait lol this is scumIn post 705, DiamondSentinel wrote:Welp, if I die here, I'm gonna assume it's auto-lose for town. I've seen nothing to the contrary to suggest that the town isn't going to let scum lead them straight off a cliff.
town would be more interested in last words and directing tomorrow's lynch
but anyway“Why was I chosen?'
'Such questions cannot be answered,' said Gandalf. 'You may be sure that it was not for any merit that others do not possess. But you have been chosen, and you must therefore use such strength and heart and wits as you have.”- DiamondSentinel
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Whatever. I'm kinda done dealing with this. When/if you lynch me, I hope for your sake you're scum, or else you need to never play mafia again, considering you're making up reasons to lynch me, and are now going back and forth on your reads on me and your partner.
First it's Sky's wagon hopping. Now they're being super townie. And this is all in the span of under a day.
PEdit: Sky, it's useless. This town hasn't been willing to believe us/townread us since we both took offense at Math's rando-lynch strat. It's not a matter of "I'm right/you're wrong'. It's a matter of "Nobody even bothers trying to listen to what I have to say" at this point. Every god damned game a scum starts a wagon on me and the rest of the town is just like "omg yeah they don't fit current meta lynch with fire" and lo and behold, I flip town. Can't remember the last time I got lynched as scum. Probably SaGa Frontier, when I was unlynchable.
At this point it's just me pissed off, as I am every town game because nobody bothers to try and read me.“Why was I chosen?'
'Such questions cannot be answered,' said Gandalf. 'You may be sure that it was not for any merit that others do not possess. But you have been chosen, and you must therefore use such strength and heart and wits as you have.”- DiamondSentinel
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I know what I said in the past, but are we just ignoring this scumslip? Like, this is a blatant scumslip.In post 780, sheepsaysmeep wrote:yeah i need to free up some time can we just thunderdome two lynches
Can we deal with this here? Please?“Why was I chosen?'
'Such questions cannot be answered,' said Gandalf. 'You may be sure that it was not for any merit that others do not possess. But you have been chosen, and you must therefore use such strength and heart and wits as you have.”- DiamondSentinel
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Agreed. MathDino's could be a scumslip, but could just as easily not be one.In post 854, Sky_Paladin wrote:I don't really see it as a scum slip for the same reason I don't accept pretty much every 'townslip' that I see; context is easy to misrep or misread in a forum based game.
I do have some other thoughts that I will share in my next big catch up but I can't really do anything right now.
However, I think that sheep's is almost 100% a scumslip.“Why was I chosen?'
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Essentially speedlynch.In post 859, RedFlavor wrote:
What is thunderdomeIn post 857, DiamondSentinel wrote:
I know what I said in the past, but are we just ignoring this scumslip? Like, this is a blatant scumslip.In post 780, sheepsaysmeep wrote:yeah i need to free up some time can we just thunderdome two lynches
Can we deal with this here? Please?“Why was I chosen?'
'Such questions cannot be answered,' said Gandalf. 'You may be sure that it was not for any merit that others do not possess. But you have been chosen, and you must therefore use such strength and heart and wits as you have.”- DiamondSentinel
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Alright. We've got 11 days to finish this up.
I don't particularly see cy as scum, however, I'm definitely not ruling out that I'm just wrong here. Sell me on this.
On the other hand, sell me why sheep!pair specifically isn't scum.“Why was I chosen?'
'Such questions cannot be answered,' said Gandalf. 'You may be sure that it was not for any merit that others do not possess. But you have been chosen, and you must therefore use such strength and heart and wits as you have.”- DiamondSentinel
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I've considered it greatly. If sheep is town, then that means that, likely, Math is town. About a 60/40 there.
Kop/Momo has about a 75/25 chance of being scum.
Red/Hyrule is about a 50/50. Their general posting is town-like, but it seems like just the right amount of distancing that they could be scum.
Cy/Lalendra sits about 60/40 in favor of scum. Regardless of their alignment, sheep's cases shall be given no salt whatsoever, and their readlists to be ignored. They only sit at 60/40 because that means that Dino was right about sheep being town, which leads credence to their reads in general.“Why was I chosen?'
'Such questions cannot be answered,' said Gandalf. 'You may be sure that it was not for any merit that others do not possess. But you have been chosen, and you must therefore use such strength and heart and wits as you have.”- DiamondSentinel
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...
Math, are you even reading?
1. No PT fuckups.
2. "setting up non-Mop lynch tomorrow" Mop is literally my most likely lynch if sheep is scum.“Why was I chosen?'
'Such questions cannot be answered,' said Gandalf. 'You may be sure that it was not for any merit that others do not possess. But you have been chosen, and you must therefore use such strength and heart and wits as you have.”- DiamondSentinel
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