Open 709: Masons and Monks (Game Over)

[Mathdino]

sup i've been subscribed to this topic for my own purposes

jay is town and momo is town
glad to see i'm town

A50 is being A50
beefster has bad reads and idk how alignment indicative that is

okay mod is still putting up the votecount so i'm ISOing people
long time no see mozamis, you seem town
but also this is multiball and townhunting doesn't really work here, so fuck
this archwing wagon is shit. his utter confusion reads town. everyone has to scumhunt in a multiball game so lack of scumhunting is just a bad player tell, not a scumtell

davesaz is mad pinging me but i'm doing another once-over to see if i'm right about something

[Mathdino]

Lol not gonna say why I was following this topic

Glad you've gotten less imminently lynchable though

YOU HEAR THAT, GUYS?
JAY IS TOWN AND I WILL NEVER LYNCH THEM

[Mathdino]

I'm pretty sure he's not claiming both because that'll just lead us into counterclaim city.

Jay could legit be mafia/wolf with how much he's trying to dodge the NK but at the very least I'm not lynching him.

VOTE: Beefster
Gut vote, gonna go check his ISO to make sure I'm not being stupid.

[Mathdino]

There are 2 monks and 2 masons. Multiply probability by 4. It's around 2.3%.

So I'm just gonna say it. davesaz seems to think A50 and mozamis are masons/monks together, which seems ludicrous.

Any reads on davesaz hinting at the mason/monk team? I'm trying to figure out if it's something scum would even do in a multiball.

Edit: gj

[Mathdino]

Upon review, momo, I am almost absolutely sure that's not what A50 is doing.

He ruled out a couple associatives early on.

People called him on that. He had to repeatedly explain himself (increasing his mentions of moz and creating the impression of defence).

He said that mozamis hasn't done anything scummy so far (I assume, although I haven't checked, that a bunch of people were calling him scummy).

People called him on THAT TOO. So now he has to defend it AGAIN.

The more you ask someone about their null-townread, the more it's gonna look like they're defending them. mozamis has barely been around enough to scumread him. I actually agree, he hasn't done anything scummy so far.

[Mathdino]

Wait okay I checked the opening and it literally doesn't seem to say if the team got to talk at all.

Dunnstral, mozamis, and ShadedMelee have 48 hours to post before I start looking for replacements.

Also even if they did get to speak, mozamis definitely didn't.

[Mathdino]

Vote Beefster with me. He's voting you, this is a great OMGUS opportunity.

[Mathdino]

Honestly I'd be pretty cool with speedlynching in this setup. I have a strong suspicion that the longer the day goes on, the more scumsided it'll eventually get. Masons and monks are gonna get pretty obvious over time. Plus, ideal strategy is for mafia and wolves to shoot town (and not destroy each other). I'd rather not give them more time to figure out the entire setup.

So yeah let's speedlynch Beefster.

[Mathdino]

wat

i was literally right in marked for death

you lynched those guys without me

brb doing a lolcase

[Mathdino]

VOTE: dave
For suggesting a vote based on activity

shit vote, that's not a scumtell

I'll pick

Maybe

by pressing both buttons at the same time.

playing along, haha look at me i'm making jay like me by roleplaying too

UNVOTE: davesaz
Gut town read on dave.

VOTE: Kotoko Utsugi
Because I feel like it.

whelp the dave thing isn't viable because he's acting like town, lemme just RVS someone who's not even here yet

Your playstyle confuses me. I have never seen such a chaotic player. What an interesting hydra account.

IIOA

snip

This and #84 look a little bit off to me. I don't really follow the logic.

Meta defense (when there's nothing to defend) is strange. It's almost like he's trying to WIFOM with the gambler's fallacy.

VOTE: momo
Serious vote.

And by gambler's fallacy, that would specifically refer to his "I haven't played scum in a while" priming the feeble human mind to expect him to be scum because humans inherently suck at statistics- triggering those of us who are aware of the gambler's fallacy to second guess ourselves. He's priming WIFOM.

the fuck is this shit vote
voting momo for not making sense is the most opportunistic thing i've ever seen

Or it could mean nothing. We'll see where this goes. I'm more bothered by the meta defense under no pressure thing.

random self-meta is not a scumtell

I can see good reason for Archwing suspicion, but I'm happy with where my vote is at right now.

momo might be playing dumb. It's hard to say.

lol he's unsure on momo but he's more interested in getting a lynch than finding scum if he feels like his options are momo and archwing

sheep me

[Mathdino]

Not a reaction test. I'm literally townreading everyone on this wagon.

gg guys solved it

see you d2

(also highkey i'm pretty sure i'm gonna die at night and i'm not SUPER interested in long multiball days so the faster we lynch the faster i can get killed)

[Mathdino]

a lolcase on why archwing wagon is shit

You're "strange" not scummy!

UNVOTE:

yeah it's probably a playstyle thing.

Just to sort of piggy back this, I did a Mini Normal with Elsa, and this is pretty equivalent to their playstyle - They actually tried to create an entire pre-game narrative. It was rather entertaining. Too much roleplay though.

"hello i am scum and i am going to tell everyone that i'm jumping on this LAMIST train by opportunistically defending elsa"
oh wait that's right scum don't literally say they're doing something scummy

Moz, Almost, jay town.

Where does your town read on Almost come from?

"hello i am scum and i'm gonna ask you to help convince everyone that A50 is town"
oh yeah that's right this is actually a good question which has no utility for scum

Hey, phone posting at work atm, so I will provide more tomorrow when I can get to a computer - sorry for noy being active right now, I usually try to be involved more.

I'd probably wanna scum buddy up with Elsa, cause I like their play style and I think we could have some fun with it.. I haven't really played with much of this list, other than 1 game with Elsa and 1 with Moz.

I find the amount of meta reads going on in the first 5 pages crazy. Like I get that we don't have much to go on, but it seems like that is all everyone is doing. Expect more analysis from me in 24 hrs or so.

UNVOTE: my rvs vote.

L
O
L
"hello i am scum and i'm going to shit all over the first 5 pages by criticising the meta discussion that i myself took part in and then complain about inability to get into the game"
oh that's right, utter hypocrisy and no clear direction is a towntell, not a scumtell

archwing is a shit wagon, gg

[Mathdino]

IF YOU WERE TO ROLL SCUM AND WAS GIVEN THE CHOICE TO PICK ONE PARTNER FROM THIS GAME PLAYER LIST, WHO WOULD THAT BE? EXPLAIN.

raya, no question

given the way she plays it'd be super fucking easy for me to just make up a townread on her

she's tough to lynch too, i stalked a couple of her scumgames while metadiving someone else

i'm actually kind of afraid she's scum this game

[Mathdino]

i'm mocking people who are scumreading arch

arch does things scum rarely do

gimme more reads momo other than the awesome and correct beefster scumread

[Mathdino]

Congratulations, momo.

1. It's been 7 pages, you're not gonna find those associations.

2. 2 players hard defending each other isn't even a scumtell. Chainsaw defending is more likely but still a shit tell.

3. Now you've nulled every instance of that happening going forward because scum knows you're looking for that.

Speedlynching Beefster and canvassing incoming players on thoughts on speedlynching Beefster (and why they're not yet voting Beefster on my awesome lolcase) is a much better way to spend our time imo.

Edit: Jay is correct. momo is more likely to find the masons and monks than mafia/wolves.
I would prefer to NOT give more information on who the masons/monks are.

[Mathdino]

In fact, I would go so far as to say that reads lists are anti-town.

[Mathdino]

I'm speaking from experience from the last time I played a mason open. The masons were too clear about their reads and started chainsaw defending each other. By D2 the entire mason team was outed (after a mason kill on N1).

A50 makes a good point that I hadn't fully thought through.

That said, being masons/monks with someone makes them half as likely to be scum, and you're probably gonna want them around for later so you can read them in the hood. Plus masons/monks like to breadcrumb each other for some reason. While masons/monks could be scum, it's far more likely that the pairs will implicitly trust each other. This bleeds through into the thread. I know I'm good at PR hunting. I'm trying to defend the town against what scum-me would do (which is draw out the conversation, test a bunch of wagons, and nail the masonries).

So yeah let's not do too many wagons. Until masons/monks die, I would also argue too much VCA is anti-town.

[Mathdino]

IN FACT, I'd even suggest flashwagoning Beefster

even if you are masons/monks with him

. If he claims mason or monk I'll leave him alive for sure.

So if you're "partners" with Beefster, you should help vote him up and get him closer to the claim, knowing he's gonna claim and get cleared anyway. This muddles the associations.

Or, now that I've said this, don't do that, because that'll muddle the associations even more!

WIFOM city!

[Mathdino]

never

also

FoS: Kotoko

@talon: yeah but if i got shot i wouldn't have to scumhunt in multiball so it evens out
plus both scumteams might shoot me if i'm awesome enough

[Mathdino]

who the hell is reptar

also assemble is a known lurker and does this shit constantly

also what's wrong with the beef wagon D:

[Mathdino]

i'd like to think i have a pretty baller reputation among every player that sheeped me

might be the context you're missing

[Mathdino]

Why are you calling me out for my RVS votes?

better options available to you both times

[Mathdino]

i mean town almost never wins multiballs when scum DONT kill each other anyway
but it'd be cool to not inadvertently out masons/monks in the midst of arguing

also the "only scum make townblocs" scumtell is literally a scumtell i've only ever used as scum
more often i find that townblocs are made of town tbh
idk if i'm townreading or scumreading dave being wrong, i didn't see post 60 before kotoko brought it up

[Mathdino]

and idk
if i were scum in beefster's shoes i don't think i'd do what he did
but beefster is also not me, and OMGUSing here is a great way of making people think "wow that bad vote must be town"
so vote stands for now

[Mathdino]

no yeah that's exactly my point

if he went and redirected, that's like the obvious scummy thing to do

doing what he did is, however, the smart-scum move

i just need more content from him before i reevaluate. i'm certainly not reevaluating based on a super lowkey defence

[Mathdino]

hahaha

I replaced into the game D2 and immediately wrote up a full reads list with tons of reasons, predicted scum's next move, correctly called a major suspect town, and then started pushing lynches.

Multiball is weird and given the masons/monks, full reads are anti-town. This is a fundamentally different game. I also act different early game.

[Mathdino]

monk mafia and mason werewolf is rare
but beside that point
in general, when i'm in a neighbourhood with someone in an ordinary game, i prefer to keep them from being lynched and/or throw null-townreads their way so i can try to sort them using the hood
if, for example, i were a mason
it doesn't benefit me to out my mason buddy or get my mason buddy lynched

i've been following this game since it started, i know what i'm doing lol

[Mathdino]

lol in the other game i came in guns blazing on 2 townies
everyone sheeped me and then i pulled a 180 and nailed scum way after

[Mathdino]

you'll find that my townhunting is significantly more accurate than my scumhunting
and my bet is that if you compare the random reasons i townread people in the two games, you might find a very similar thinking pattern
i often townread the town's biggest suspects and make my own suspects

anyway gimme reads other than me pls

[Mathdino]

KU is probably town.

#goodposting

[Mathdino]

And by teams, I don't inherently mean just scum teams, but Monks and Mason's as well.

Don't speculate about this. We could just as easily be monks/masons throwing off scum by analysing early wagons or some shit. "Bussing" if you will. And you know that's not only something I would do, but something I'd allude to doing.

I'm comfortable seeing where this wagon goes.

[Mathdino]

Yo so all good wagons should have scum on them because multiball.

Raya's vote, while possibly coming from scum, was fine. L-1 is a scummy place to vote because you get blamed for any hammers. I actually think she's town.

I talked about the meta thing before. You're likely to find that I change my playstyle based on the setup more than my alignment. But you can at least get an impression of how I think and how I come to my opinions, which might be useful.

It's definitely town momo.

You're not gonna get more content from Assemble just because you're voting him.

[Mathdino]

Yeah he's not correct. Jay/Raya is a weird team. Tbh out of the Beef wagon A50 is my biggest suspect but w/e.

Anyway, we just need to hear from Dunnstral and Talon before we get a hammer right?

[Mathdino]

Jay's play was confusing me so I did a quick meta dive. Their play seems to be closest to the town play I saw in a few of their games. They seem a lot more relaxed as town whereas as scum they seem to be a little more tryhardy and not as relaxed and fluffy. I'll give a slight town lean but I'm still going to keep an eye on them since I find their play really hard to read.

This is the only interaction/mention before A50 called it out.

Yeah, cuz scum opens the day with a mini-case on their own partner.

Nope.

[Mathdino]

jay is a dumb dumb and is obvious SK

[Mathdino]

jay can't even spell "what" correctly, must be scum

[Mathdino]

Alright, I can now understand why you think that.

Personally I metadive people with recent join dates just because it's easier. Jay definitely opened in a significantly weirder way than momo. Hell, the first game I played with Jay, I metadived him first out of anyone (and didn't meta anyone else for a while).

I didn't think Raya was casing Jay. I know what she was doing. Just not something I'd expect scum to do. "Jay does this shit as town" is a very easy conclusion for town to come to on its own.

[Mathdino]

oh joy now i have to deal with a momo vs jay tvt fight

my absolute favourite

i really just love having to defend momo and jay of all people

the beefster wagon is great, guys, let's get back to that or find a non-stupid alternative

[Mathdino]

Jay, on the other hand, is the king of OMGUS.

[Mathdino]

my case is awesome

tbh he's probably town because almost all my d1 lynches are town (tbh everyone is probably town) but if i'm right i'm gonna be so badass

speedlynch before the masons/monks out themselves let's go guys

declare intent

[Mathdino]

oh man was that a hammer

[Mathdino]

fuck that was just L-1

okay whatever

BEEFSTER IS AT L-1 GUYS

yo beef are you a mason/monk

[Mathdino]

the lesson here is that i'm always right
even when i'm wrong, i'm always right

see you in the graveyard beefster

do you think claiming werewolf will stop them from shooting me

[Mathdino]

i have 0 insight

twilight reads are anti-town

reads lists in general are anti-town, i could honestly figure out who the masons and monks are if i really tried (unless they're in the lurkers)

just remember to keep days short and don't let too many wagons run up because then masons/monks will definitely have to claim

also try to lynch only VT claims tbh, scum will take care of masons/monks for you

[Mathdino]

oh yeah and beefster was definitely not bussed lol

[Mathdino]

I'm fighting a losing battle here and I won't give you the pleasure of a longer day.

VOTE: Beefster

AWOOOOOO!!!
Go Werewolves!

honestly dude thanks for this

drawing it out would've been the most pro-scum thing you could do

i was really hoping you would self-hammer

had you not self-hammered i might've started questioning myself



anyway you guys are really weird for trying to find mafia on beefster's wagon

there's almost definitely scum off the wagon too, there was nothing about that wagon that indicates BOTH mafia were on it

look off the wagon probs

[Mathdino]

Psycolgocal prfile on Math suggests he has the ego to think he can pull of such an aggressive scum ploy.

oh man the last time i saw you, you mislynched me in my 2nd game due to a "scumslip"
back when i had no ego and no confidence to defend myself from shit

you're fuckin right tho about 2017-mathdino

[Mathdino]

it was a d1 speedlynch

why the fuck would his partner join in on that

it was a very-easy-to-discredit wagon tbh

[Mathdino]

it does benefit werewolves to keep the masons alive

[Mathdino]

I HAD A GREAT CASE ON BEEF BRO
DID YOU NOT SEE THE SUPERIORITY OF THE LOLCASE

it was jimmy neutron mafia
i played like shit back then
i have since learned to not "scumslip"

[Mathdino]

Okay. Like I said though, I think we're significantly better off not giving reads or pointing to anyone in particular (and especially not defending anyone in particular) because more info for scumteams is anti-town.

If I die though, do some damn good VCA in my honour, town.

Edit: LOOOOOOL

[Mathdino]

Mozamis, seriously, you need to stop this.

Trust me, I've played mason games before. There is 100% reason to not out people.

Every previous Masons and Monks game was ruined by too much day.

[Mathdino]

i stopped playing mafia for 2 years

i've come back a changed man

now i just flipflop wildly between LOLZ and total seriousness

read up on Polygamist Mafia, Marked for Death, recently completed Jester Nightless, etc

[Mathdino]

i always seem town

[Mathdino]

Interesting buddying going on here. FoS: fuzzy or mozamis

Also: be very wary of Keybladewielder. He's either a troll or a VI, and he's highly likely to turn into a mafia scapegoat at some point. If there's a cop, I suggest investigating her first night. Please resist the urge to policy lynch him.

ahahahaha holy shit
this is before i got bloodthirsty for policy lynches nice

[Mathdino]

ladies

you'll figure this out tomorrow

do not scumhunt in twilight, it gives scum more info

not only about masons/monks but also in figuring out who they should or should not shoot

seriously just stop talking

[Mathdino]

yeah this is a bit long lol

could at least lock the thread

i'm ready to kill someone again!

...tomorrow morning, that is

[Mathdino]

Tbh correct move would be to claim Mason to confuse people

[Mathdino]

I mean mafia

[Mathdino]

Fuck I'm still alive
Why'd A50 get to die

[Mathdino]

I was hoping to quick-replace into this game I was watching and get it NK'd so I could go back to spectating (and focus on Team Mafia tomorrow). Was relieved when I rolled down. Was more relieved when Beefster flipped scum (I assume all D1 lynches are on town and generally assume I'm wrong even when I'm right).

But noooooope. Now I gotta recreate D1's magic.

brb finding all the scum

[Mathdino]

HERE'S THE DEAL, WE ARE USING A SPECIFIC STRATEGY:

If you don't like it, town can lose like they've lost every other iteration of this setup.

Our best and only asset is the masons/monks. Yes, they could be scum. No, it's not likely. There is 0 point in lynching them when the scum teams will more than likely just kill them themselves for additional PoE.

So our day play will be geared toward outing them as infrequently as possible.

1. We are not to run up multiple people for a claim.

VT claims are to be lynched

. (That said, don't self-hammer as town, it's shitty)

2. We are not to make any indications that we are a mason/monk or that we have a partner.

Don't imply anything

. You don't need to breadcrumb when you're a mason/monk. In fact, feel free to actively muddy the waters by nullreading your buddy, or nullscumreading them, or even hard-defending them if that's what you'd normally do. Unfortunately the masons/monks might have to play a little scummier. That's okay. VTs can help by implying they might be a mason/monk (that said don't clear someone because they're doing this).

3.

We are not to association-hunt or VT-hunt.

Don't call out 2 players as whichever scumteam has 2 alive. Don't call someone out and be like "well it looks like they're not a mason/monk". Do not help the scumteams. The only exception is Beefster's partner since we already have a flip.

If everyone agrees on this, then there won't be any problem with limiting scum's knowledge.

If even a couple jackasses think they're gonna be all smart by breadcrumbing their role (VT, mason, monk), it ruins it and we should start speedlynching again. The reason I speedlynched D1 was because people were starting to get uppity about associations. That's extremely bad and ruins mason games.

So yeah. With that all in mind we can scumhunt.

[Mathdino]

EBWOP to first post:
*was hoping to get this slot NK'd
*was relieved when I rolled town

EBWOP to second post:

A caveat to point #2 is that if your buddy is getting run up (or if you think they will), it's entirely okay to jump on the wagon to speed up their claim. Scum will be mason/monk hunting just like town usually association hunts. Don't be super obvious.

Don't imply you're buddies with anyone.

[Mathdino]

momo, given my experience with Jay, I would be extremely surprised if Jay left me alive for any reason.

[Mathdino]

Beefster's partner MUST have been off the wagon. He wouldn't self-hammer otherwise. Self-hammering as a strategy serves to reduce the VCA town can make. If someone else hammered, it would've cleared them as town.

VOTE: Dunnstral

[Mathdino]

momo, I explicitly said that to get Jay shot. I was lowkey townreading Jay but not that much. Jay was asking people not to townread him.

A50 kill is NAI. Good player, wouldn't be surprised if one of the teams thought he was a mason/monk honestly.

talon kill idk about. Could be Beefster's team wanting to kill people on the wagon, or 2-man team wanting us to lynch off the wagon. It's a weird kill. Could just be random.

Who else is scum, momo?

[Mathdino]

Correct, and while we do that, we also subtly (or, if you wanna be A50, explicitly) WIFOM the fuck out of the scumteam.

It's cool to be like "This guy is scum because the way he's pushing Archwing is scummy" but not "this guy and Archwing have a weird interaction, they're on the same/opposite alignments".

Any thoughts on your initial wagon, Archwing?

[Mathdino]

I don't believe in introductions. I'd rather let my actions talk for/about me.

VOTE: Mathdino

For not being in the game!

eyyyy i just noticed this
fuck this guy in particular

anyway brb analysing wagons

[Mathdino]

Okay so Kotoko is scum. Doesn't matter if with Beefster or with the other team.

Talked a lot, plenty of words with little effect on the game (looks like trying to look active/townish without being responsible for things). Distanced from the Beefster wagon, likely for towncred after the Beefster flip (or trying to avoid Beefster flip at all). A50 kill points to her.

Not moving vote for now but tentative lynchpool is {Kotoko, Dunnstral, Assemble}.

[Mathdino]

don't fight me over semantic things lol

calling a wagon bad is something i consider distancing

if you don't consider it that, that's great

but the effect was that you got to be the one to call a likely town wagon bad

you said you were trying to dismantle a TvT but you basically did nothing to that end: gave no reasons to convince me beef was town (you even called his posting ass), made no real push on anyone else, you just sat and discredited the nature in which the wagon built up

anyway you're gonna say you weren't doing that so whatever

who's scum?

Edit: i mean true tho

[Mathdino]

beefster might not have felt that his partner even WOULD hammer

the only way that could be coordinated is through daytalk which iirc scum don't have

this actually indicates to me that his partner was a lurker

[Mathdino]

what the fuck is jay trying to say lol

anyway the talon theory is just weird

all that matters about talon is on/off the wagon

then we have to wade through WIFOM to figure out whether scum wanted wagoners or offwagoners dead

until we know who made which kill i'm not sure NKA is gonna help all that much for someone who basically did nothing

[Mathdino]

meant NKA on talon
NKA on A50 can potentially be done because A50 actually did things

raya killed A50 is an interesting idea but i want more raya presence before i make a call on that

and i'm not giving you shit for not asserting yourself right now, i'm giving you shit for not asserting yourself back then. scum wants town to lynch their townreads. my issue is the lack of effort in stopping it, BEFORE you had evidence that your reads are bad

anyway yeah we need more players

hey jay go through D1 and figure out who to lynch pls

[Mathdino]

I'm gonna tinfoil that D1 Mathdino could easily have been Beef's partner.

Okay here's the issue with this.

I started the wagon on Beefster and then strongarmed people into quicklynching him. There's every indication that I wanted Beefster lynched and no one else.

Your suggestion is that I knew he was scum already and bussed the shit out of him on like my 2nd post so I could get mad towncred.

This just gets me shot. The end.


@Raya: Lack of reasonable trajectory is a towntell but I want to hear Archwing respond to you. Otherwise your reads list is basically identical to mine. Which is weird but whatever.

@Everyone:

Y'all need to vote more.
VOTE: Kotoko choo choo

[Mathdino]

Dunnstral didn't vote AT ALL day 1, not even an RVS. He has to be under suspicion.

Why is not voting suspicious?

What's the utility of asking this question?

Don't just defend yourself, do something.

[Mathdino]

I'm here. I don't like that all of Dunnstral's posting have been about himself. And I agree with mozamis that not voting is scummy.

mozamis is probably town. Putting me in the lynchpool doesn't really serve him as scum very well.

davesaz makes me uncomfortable but I'm getting the impression that that's a style thing.

Still need more content from Raya for a read.

I wish more people voted.

Where are you at, Jay?

[Mathdino]

-_-

i mean thoughts

you wanted comments, you comment on the discussion lol

[Mathdino]

Oh, right. Fuck.

You gotta vote me to get me to have some creative juices. My best reads come from being under pressure.

Dayvig: JaydragonKing

So while we wait for your flip, look at Raya's ISO and tell me what you think.

[Mathdino]

I don't believe in introductions. I'd rather let my actions talk for/about me.

VOTE: Mathdino

For not being in the game!

Is this enough indication?

We've completed I think 2 games together.

Switch: He was SK (won), I was cop with a N0 guilty (died N1 after playing really weirdly)

JK9++: He was Tracker (died N1 for some reason), I was a VT who lynched 2 scum and won

Edit: dude can you maybe multipost a little less so people can talk

[Mathdino]

lol this game was a thing right

wanna just speedlynch a lurker or kotoko and be done with it

[Mathdino]

the only TM2018 players in this game are Dunnstral (checked out), davesaz (generally half lurks), and momo who's probably town anyway

the rest of this playerlist has no excuse

i'm comfortable blaming this on them

[Mathdino]

Request prods on Archwing, momo, and in 8 hours, Raya.

[Mathdino]

momo's town

jay's town

fuck it i'll say davesaz is probably town

so let's just lynch everyone else until i get shot

kotoko isn't even voting ._.

[Mathdino]

he's literally just not here and he's also in Team Mafia
generally pretty site inactive

if you want, go do a quick meta and see if activity is alignment indicative, because that would actually help a lot

[Mathdino]

Kotoko was also off the wagon. Idk what to tell you. Something about the idea of lynching Dunnstral right now feels wrong. I need more content.

[Mathdino]

Archwing is part of why I feel uncomfortable about lynching Dunnstral.

[Mathdino]

the start of day 2 with Dino and Koto... that was TvT. I really did not like d1 Dave, and d2 Dave is just as bad. Dunn is pretty well non-existent, as is Assemble... I wanna push one of these two before we start running people up.
VOTE: Dunn

This is a strange vote and a strange defence of Koto that I do not understand. You can't just slap "TvT" labels on things. That kind of interaction needs justification.

[Mathdino]

He's sort of taken charge and people are following blindly without questioning him.

Yo I would honestly prefer people not do this

I did this d1 because I was pretty damn sure I was right

It's hard to recreate magic and I'm concerned people are waiting for me to do something

Jay following me is within his meta but everyone else needs to step up

[Mathdino]

My experience is that associative hunting in Mason games is always a mistake and is scumsided

If you think there's scum motivation in HOW I'm using that presence, lay it on me

Now on reflection what you're saying is honestly indicative that scum is hiding

We're not speedlynching Kotoko so you guys find a lurker that's scummy and I'll sheep

[Mathdino]

What's Archwings motivation in throwing shade at the most difficult to lynch player in general regardless of my alignment?

[Mathdino]

Hey Archwing do you think hypothetical scum me knew or even expected beefster to flip scum
Trying to get an impression of your view on that scenario

[Mathdino]

I never truly believe any of my reads until the flip xD

I sure as hell didn't think he was town, and that was enough.

I guess I'm asking because I actually don't think it's necessarily true that everyone needs to scumhunt. Would I not run the risk of getting shot by Beefster's team by being as right as I was?

@Raya: I'm not seeing that. I'm not an easy lynch no matter what. Why wouldn't he as scum just remove me at night? What's his motivation for doing this during the day?

[Mathdino]

High-key, if we get to LyLo and I'm dead by that point, just lynch Jay. Or do it the day before LyLo.

[Mathdino]

It's more the fact that both A50 and momo are clearly town, and they rarely agree on totally wrong reads. They've also played with you before.

Plus my original strategy of hard-defend you so you'd get shot was clearly not working because other players are scumreading you enough to ensure you'll never get shot *shrug*

I could live with lynching anyone in {Assembler, Dunnstral, Kotoko} and potentially Archwing since he's probably just gonna get lynched later anyway. He's not really towntelling.

[Mathdino]

dear.

lord.

fuck.

[Mathdino]

i mean

that kind of implies a 2011er wouldn't be able to end RVS as scum by voting lynchbait

[Mathdino]

Ladies and gentlemen, sheep scumreads someone that scum shot.

Let's play a game of "Dumb or Scum"!

My money's on dumb. He probably would've checked his scum PT first and seen this. Unless of course it was the other scumteam that shot A50. Still weird thing to overlook.

[Mathdino]

it's page 5 and dino isnt obvtown; im psure he's scum

unironically tho this is probably the funniest thing i've ever seen you post

[Mathdino]

this is so much better than jester nightless

sheep give me scumreads pls, we're getting nowhere

[Mathdino]

bro my entire gameplay once was to sheep sheep and policy lynch anyone who doesn't

also literally just ISO me for my case, this game is not too long and you know it

[Mathdino]

Okay look there are 4 of us that are probably not gonna lynch each other anytime soon.

Figure out who the fuck we're voting, I very rarely oppose wagons.

[Mathdino]

I guess I'm just flip-flopping between "scum would never lurk and just let town control the entire narrative" and "scum is lurking specifically to hide from Mathdino and his godlike quicklynch abilities".

If scum seriously thinks the latter, they should've shot me. I can only assume they figured I'd get D2 wrong.

[Mathdino]

they might bhave been paranoid, who were you suspecting end of day 1?

I purposefully don't give twilight reads so scum can't WIFOM the nightkill.

Looking back at my own progression, I argued there was scum off the lynchwagon.

Which is weird cuz scum NK'd ON the wagon.

[Mathdino]

idk he could very well not be and i don't really feel like explaining that to you sry

he's voting with us anyway so i don't really care

[Mathdino]

lol sometimes i forget you actually saw me as scum

what do you think of my meta

[Mathdino]

sheep stop being lazy

Okay so Kotoko is scum. Doesn't matter if with Beefster or with the other team.

Talked a lot, plenty of words with little effect on the game (looks like trying to look active/townish without being responsible for things). Distanced from the Beefster wagon, likely for towncred after the Beefster flip (or trying to avoid Beefster flip at all). A50 kill points to her.

don't fight me over semantic things lol

calling a wagon bad is something i consider distancing

if you don't consider it that, that's great

but the effect was that you got to be the one to call a likely town wagon bad

you said you were trying to dismantle a TvT but you basically did nothing to that end: gave no reasons to convince me beef was town (you even called his posting ass), made no real push on anyone else, you just sat and discredited the nature in which the wagon built up

anyway you're gonna say you weren't doing that so whatever

who's scum?

Edit: i mean true tho

[Mathdino]

did you literally miss that case on your catchup

did you even go to the posts in question and check to see what i was responding to

[Mathdino]

catch up now

[Mathdino]

cool

archwing declare intent so kotoko can fakeclaim, someone can counterclaim, and we can hammer

[Mathdino]

Mason game pro strats:
1. Run scum up
2. They claim mason/monk, check for counterclaims
3. Someone else counterclaims mason/monk NOT with the lynch target
4. If scum is super ballsy, scumpartner countercounterclaims mason/monk with the lynch target and NOT with the counterclaim
5. Final mason/monk countercountercounterclaims the scumpair, entire scumteam is outed, gg.

For the record this almost never gets to step 4.

If we don't get any counterclaims (i.e. everyone posts "I don't counterclaim") then we should probably just lynch a lurker.

[Mathdino]

why

just lynch him before lylo and we're good

[Mathdino]

k im assuming y'all are meming

where the fuck is everyone

edit: yep, like i said, town

[Mathdino]

[Mathdino]

jay i'm just gonna point out that not wanting to get shot is actually a massive scumtell in multiball

your faction is much more hurt by you getting shot as scum than you getting shot as town

[Mathdino]

like i haven't been pointing that out because i was honestly hoping you WOULD get shot if i townread you enough

but yeah you kinda have to be lynched before or at lylo at this rate

[Mathdino]

yeah but like

do we really want a replacement on kot tho

like i'd love a replacement for assembler or dunnstral but like

kot?

[Mathdino]

davesaz is in team mafia, i can personally confirm he is not active enough to defend himself

i do not support an archwing lynch at this time

[Mathdino]

Logically I’m obvtown.

uh
wut
explain this

[Mathdino]

oh fucking shit i forgot we actually have to wait for them to get online for them to claim

goddammit

EVEN IF YOU ARE MASON/MONK WITH KOTOKO, DON'T SAY SO

UNVOTE:

Intent to L-1 and/or hammer Kotoko.

[Mathdino]

have you considered not playing mulch games when you have 2 weeks of homework to do

[Mathdino]

i agree with that statement
might wanna get started on your english homework
you seem to have forgotten
this
|
V

,

[Mathdino]

AHAHAHAHAHAHA

[Mathdino]

This might be my greatest town performance of all time.

Not to self-aggrandise beyond my abilities or anything because we all know certain players on this site do that.

Like, don't get me wrong, I'm shit at gutreading/tonereading no matter what.

But holy shit.

[Mathdino]

Okay so I'm definitely getting shot tonight.

I heavily doubt at this point that Kotoko was bussed.

That means... lynch among the lurkers and latejoiners on the wagon and win right?

Edit: don't. Ideal play is for Kotoko to lie. I'm surprised Beefster didn't.

[Mathdino]

Honestly, fuck it. You guys can handle this one, I have other games to get to.

VOTE: Kotoko

Go PoE the scum tomorrow.

1. REMEMBER THE RULES. DO NOT OUT MASONS/MONKS UNTIL THEY GET RUN UP. DON'T EVEN TRY TO CALL SCUMTEAMS.
2. If Kotoko is Beefster's partner, monks literally mean nothing except "not mafia together".
3. That said, if you have a PT, you need to be using it to try to read your partner (with the benefit of the flip) and other players. Neighbours are too poorly used on MS.
4. When in doubt, do what Dino would do.
5. If you get to LyLo you should probably lynch Jay (unless there's clearly a MUCH more obvious partner). Never getting shot at this point and everyone knows it.

[Mathdino]

Kotoko self-hammer heavily implies not Beefster's partner.

So look out for associations. READ YOUR NEIGHBOUR. There's a slight chance that scum is Werewolf Mason and Mafia Monk.

That said, if that's the case, they'll probably shoot each other anyway.

[Mathdino]

I mean, I've VT-slipped a few times now, so they probably think they're better off shooting masons/monks.

I read through A50 and I'm pretty sure he got shot for WIFOMing the NK too hard.

So I guess this is me WIFOMing the NK.

Remember, scum, take it from the setup spec guy: Ideal scum play is for both of you to shoot me tonight.

Hey Jay wanna test out your VCA skills? Find partners for Beefster and Kotoko respectively.

[Mathdino]

I also claim scum, so there's that too. This is my way of getting the other team NOT to shoot me :O :O :O

[Mathdino]

I must be scum; how else did I know both Beefster and Kotoko are scum? I bussed them both obviously!

[Mathdino]

But seriously, Jay, find the scum so I can direct scum to shoot each other tonight.

[Mathdino]

cuz idc

[Mathdino]

the hilarious thing is it's literally anti-scum for them to do that

all they have to do is fakeclaim mason/monk to get someone to out themselves

it's like they literally don't want masons/monks to out

[Mathdino]

guys come on figure out who scum is

and if you want an extra challenge figure out who the mafia is if kotoko is actually a wolf

[Mathdino]

um
i would've just waited it out and then quicklynched the replacement tbh

[Mathdino]

No, they're only going to reveal if they get run up.

I don't mind if monks reveal if Kotoko was Beefster's partner, but that seems really unlikely.

[Mathdino]

learn what?

and yeah no i'm not like this when i'm wrong

i am often wrong, i have just earned bragging rights in this game alone

but like i actually do want you guys to figure out who the scum is before nightfall because it's actually informing my end-of-day reads

[Mathdino]

hahahaha, all fair
my best work was as innocent child a looong time ago, but that was more of a "get one scum, then use flip to get the next, then use flip to get the last"
but my early reads are notorious for being all shitty
i seem to do better at early-ish replace-ins after RVS is definitively over

no but seriously who are kotoko's and beefster's partners
also who's the opposing team if they're scum together

Edit: i accept that

[Mathdino]

if Kot is a wolf, then ScumMonk Math makes some sense. he knows 3 people arent wolves and he's P.O.E'd it from there?
It seem s abit unlikely, but does expalin his shit hot reads.
if Kot is Mafia then fuck knows, probably just give Dino credit for being on a heater?

you really gotta stop speculating on masons/monks; if i am a monk, it'll be up to my neighbour to figure this out

let's assume that kot is mafia then

now what

[Mathdino]

oshit gottem

if you want you can meta me if i'm actually alive tomorrow

[Mathdino]

wat

do you not think this

she self hammered -_-

[Mathdino]

Couple things:

- I'm almost positive Jay is not Beefster's partner. Could still be Kotoko's. Probably scum if Beef/Kotoko are scum together.
- davesaz doesn't make sense with either of them but do factcheck me here.
- momo pushed for the Beef lynch with me. sheep is not Beefster's partner. PROBABLY not Kotoko's; you should check and see if sheep has a history of bussing.
- mozamis, if scum, is more likely Beef's partner than Kotoko's.
- No thoughts on Dunnstral. Get him talking ASAP.
- Raya is absolutely not scum with either Beef or Kotoko IMO. HOWEVER she's probably scum if Beef/Kotoko are together. Transparently solely looking for a Beef partner. Probably listen to her tomorrow.
- Assembler has literally no good thoughts. See Dunnstral.
- Archwing viable Beef partner. Slapping TvT on me/Kotoko also means viable Kotoko partner.

k i think that's all 8 baiiii

Some advice:

[Mathdino]

What the actual fuck

[Mathdino]

Right so we're probably gonna have to mass claim to solve this

Mislynch and double town death is a loss because 2v1v1

We can hope for crosskill but can't rely on it

Ugh I should sleep tho

[Mathdino]

For the record I gave previous advice based on the hope that scum would actually crosskill or both kill me (in which case we could handle a mislynch)

With almost everyone active dead I don't see a gamesolve without mass claim

[Mathdino]

WAIT ok

Not everyone should claim

We do the following:
Jay, are you a Mason?
Archwing, are you either Mason or Monk?
IMO Raya and davesaz shouldn't claim, they seem solid already

[Mathdino]

Ugh yeah never mind you're not Kotoko partner

Who's scum dude

[Mathdino]

He once missed his own policy mislynch on d1 without even noticing the wagon

That's not gonna work on him, press dunnstral instead

Pls get a read on Raya, who has def provided enough readable content

[Mathdino]

Assemble is certainly not partners with kotoko

If he's a monk he's cleared imo

[Mathdino]

VOTE: Dunnstral

[Mathdino]

I think nothing of it.

At minimum, I am that VT. I'm being kept alive because I've failed to convince scum I could still be mason/monk (it's pretty obvious to any PR hunter) and they knew I'd never lynch momo/mozamis so they took their chances there.

If we massclaim we're of course going to get 2 masons, 2 monks, and 3 VT claims. Could really be any of them. But it would help PoEing out potential partners.

My hope is that by now the masons and monks have pretty decent reads on their partners. I can't solve a lurker game.

[Mathdino]

Helps clear up things. I'd be dead if scum thought there was any chance of me being an actual mason/monk. I've been pretty obvious, what with constantly asking to die and all. In hindsight "asking scum to NK me" and "pretending to be a power role" don't really work well together.

I would really hope that the masons/monks actually talked enough in the 3-day long nightphase to actually sort each other.

[Mathdino]

Scum is never gonna counterclaim in this situation.

Do you understand that this is in some way MyLo? We mislynch today, scum can put us in an unwinnable position tomorrow through 0 action on our part.

In the situation that mislynch is unacceptable, that's where massclaim comes into play.

Jay asks what I think of the fact that there's possibly only one VT remaining, and I'm like, ok, that's me, but idgaf.

The fact is that I've done everything possible to get NK'd up to this point. If the lurkers are masons/monks, I'd actually argue I'm higher utility to town at this rate, so scum is gonna have a tough choice tonight between shooting me or reducing possible PoE. But extra confusion at this point is worthless.

Most likely anyone we run up is gonna claim mason/monk and their partner is gonna have to claim a read on them.

[Mathdino]

I understand it's mylo and I get that we can't afford a mislynch and I'm not against a massclaim. I'm just considering you setting this massclaim up to make yourself look better.

What benefit is there in scum claiming first?

And if you think it's "towncred"

What kind of townie townreads someone for being the first to claim VT?

[Mathdino]

from my perspective raya is the only potential bus on beefster

she doesn't look like she bussed tho tbh

[Mathdino]

so assembler is actually scum then?

if he claims VT i lynch

[Mathdino]

I feel like Jay's attempts at scumhunting this game and especially today are outside his scum range.

I keep getting mixed up on who's mafia and who's wolf and I think you guys are too. Need to look over everyone's reads.

Since we're in a kind of MyLo, I'd prefer we not run people up to L-1, on the risk that real cheeky scum decides to hammer.

That said, my current lynchlist is Assembler and Archwing.
UNVOTE:

[Mathdino]

Raya: Assemble could be wolf. Dunn could be both. Dave could be wolf.

Dunnstral: Archwing could be both. Raya could be both (revised to townish). Dave could be wolf, isn't mafia.

Jay: Dave could be wolf. Dunn could be wolf. Assemble could be mafia.

Dave: Wolf is one of the lurkers.

Almost no one is looking for mafia. Idk what that means.

VOTE: Archwing

Meh well I found mafia so

[Mathdino]

also like I'm pretty sure he's not a mason so there's that too

[Mathdino]

@dave: If you feel that way, then pick whichever of mafia and wolf you think I am, and trust that I have good reads on the OTHER team (as evidenced by correct quicklynch), and that I genuinely want to lynch the other team.

Then if you're still feeling paranoid tomorrow about me bussing, lynch me since we'll still have a mislynch left.

Mafia is Archwing. Partially PoE and also the fact that he's deffo not a Mason (I'm not outing my logic on this). Wolf could be a lot of people tbh.

[Mathdino]

If there are multiple people that could connect to Beefster, and fewer people to connect to Kotoko, of course I want to lynch among the possible Kotoko suspects first, Jay.

Also there's literally one lurker at this point, everyone else has said their piece.

[Mathdino]

you can get him prodded in 15 hours if you're up then lol

and yeah that kind of logic is totally allowed

it's just shaky re: assembler because he lurks his ass off in the most random of games

[Mathdino]

dunnstral's activity levels have been very consistent with his sitewide activity levels IIRC

prove me wrong if you want

[Mathdino]

archwing lemme be more specific

solve the game for me

who's mafia and who's wolf

just saying "wow dunnstral looks scummy", even with good reasons, is actually a scumtell in multiball and is how i fucked up last time i played multiball

scum plays like singleball town

Edit: shiiiiit that post is literally what i'm talking about

[Mathdino]

In the scenario of the Koto lynch, I was never on that wagon all day. Obviously hindsight 20/20, I should've trusted more into what you guys were saying. But I did not believe that Koto was scum that day. I was trying to push on people I couldn't get a read on... then the Koto wagon happened really fast, and they started lurking hard. That was a pretty big scum tell to me, as pushed-town in that situation would want to spew out as much info as possible before they die, so I declared intent at that point. I was offline at work for the following ~12 hours where koto self voted and Dino hammered. It's not that I was never going on that wagon, it was just not the time for me to vote them at early D2. I also wasn't going to lolhammer either.

Neither of your explanations actually address the issue. I'm not sure if you CAN address the issue or defend yourself without actually solving the game from a town-you's standpoint.

Your narrative is:
- I thought Koto was scum and wanted to lynch lurkers
- Koto started lurking so I realised they were scum
- I declared intent but you guys lynched before I could hammer

But the scum narrative is:
- You wanted to appear to be doing useful things and hope Kotoko resolves the wagon on her
- Koto started lurking and you realised nothing was gonna save her
- You declared intent but we lynched before you could hammer

No one (well speaking for myself here) cares that you didn't ACTUALLY hammer. I believe you on that. The problem is everything that happened beforehand.

[Mathdino]

hint: if archie claims mason this game will get a whole lot easier

also assembler feels like the wrong lynch tbh

wolfhunting is too likely to lead to a mislynch

Edit: yep here we go

[Mathdino]

yeah that's not the correct angle to push sorry

i would've listened if you had an idea in terms of who mafia ACTUALLY is or who wolf ACTUALLY is

i'm accusing you of being mafia right now and you straight up don't have an alternative other than yourself

and furthermore you're literally only wolfhunting (keep in mind that the wolfhunting lynchpool is larger)

i could maybe believe you genuinely think i'm a wolf

but you're still scum tbh

[Mathdino]

like am i the only one who saw that

i asked him who mafia was and he answered with who wolf was

[Mathdino]

An addendum to 786: I don't believe that you would genuinely 180 your read on someone just because they start lurking. IIRC Kotoko was site inactive at the time. If you were already townreading her, that's the shittiest reason to start scumreading someone lol

Edit: I strongly doubt scum would plan out their game as much as you think they would.

[Mathdino]

i thought this game was in nightphase already

can you guys declare intent to L-1 and hammer

like don't actually L-1 because then scum can hammer us into mylo

but a good old

HURT: Archwing

would do

[Mathdino]

k we're not lynching til assembler gets back imo

@Mod: Request prod on Assembler.

[Mathdino]

MEMO TO ALL:

If Archwing really is a VT, that means one of the Monks MUST be mafia. (or one of the masons is a werewolf)

If the monks have been doing their job and trying to read each other, you need to speak up now if you think your partner is actually Kotos scumbuddy. Similar for the masons if you think your partner is Beefs buddy.

If no one speaks up, I'll take that as indication that you all believe either I'm the real VT or Archwing is the real VT. In that case, this becomes a 1v1.

[Mathdino]

How did I pre-plan the game when I wasn't even here to do so?

I hate to pull the self-meta card but both times I rolled scum with people in micros I tried my hardest to clear the bus with them beforehand so I don't become the asshole. I don't like losing to bad moves.

Now imagine the scenario in which I powerbus Beefster (trying my damnedest to actually get him lynched) without clearing it at ALL with him, and then get shot that night by mafia for being good and town leadering.

That reflects absolutely horribly on me and would be an asshole move to Beefster to just replace into his scumgame and completely fuck him over.

Anyone can use the "Math is still alive" argument all they want but is it conceivable that I expected to survive both these nights playing the way I did, and nailing Kotoko the way I did?

[Mathdino]

First of all I'm not a mason, lol, and my mason partner can out me if I'm fakeclaiming VT for some reason.
Although that would be a pretty cool move to continue dodging the NK.

Dino... thoughts on a mass claim at this point? Knowing that the majority of the players in the game are either a mason or a monk, is it potentially beneficial to look in there? I do agree that partners should start explaining their reads

I say it's the job of the masons/monks to read each other. I guess good with the massclaim if it's relevant (like the monks think they can PoE the last wolf just by claiming, then I'll definitely go for that). I suppose we might benefit from the 3rd vanilla claim.

My thought is that if there are VTs other than me, that forces scum to be in the masons/monks. So if we lynch a VT today and scum decides to go after the mason/monk pairs instead of me, we stand a good chance of getting a crosskill and continuing the game.

Assuming we mislynch today:

Best case scenario: Scum NK each other.
Pretty good scenario: One scum gets crosskilled and it's 1v3 with a mason/monk alive to call the game.
Very winnable position: Both scum kill me.
Worst case scenario: Scum both NK town, likely by me dying and by one mason/monk dying. This position is unwinnable.

[Mathdino]

So if you are telling the truth, Dino, we have 2 VT's which means that we have a guaranteed scum in the monks/masons. I suppose it is also possible that the other scum could be there as well. I think the odds of both the goon and wolf not being there are pretty unlikely, statistically speaking.

Not gonna go into the details but given the info we have (how many VT flips) it's not unlikely at all. Conditional probability, yadda yadda. Basically it's unlikely for that setup to roll, for sure, but after all our flips, it's now a very real possibility.

I think the masons/monks should out if they think their partner is scum. Masons should evaluate their partner for being scum with Beefster, and Monks should evaluate for scum with Kotoko.

[Mathdino]

I was also thinking that A50 kill might've been because of his mason-monk claim. This would imply that whoever killed him was probably vanilla; otherwise they'd know he was full of shit.

sheep NK was likely because of how hard I towncleared them tbh. Maybe scum legit got spooked by the idea of both scum killing me (and being embarrassed at my likely VT flip) or maybe they figured momo/sheep were a mason/monk.

Recent replace-ins are very common NKs in general. Removes an unpredictable element.

[Mathdino]

Yeah that wasn't Dunnstral. Might've been me. Or mozamis.

[Mathdino]

JK9++ had both initial D1 wagons on the scumteam.

The concept of counterwagoning only really works if scum wanted the counterwagon to happen.

Looking at Beefster's vote history, he really wanted momo to get counterwagoned instead. There wasn't really any indication that people were trying to choose between Beefster and Assembler. Feel free to check to see who was actively pushing Assembler over Beef.

Also keep in mind Beefster was a counterwagon/replacement-wagon to Archwing in the first place.

[Mathdino]

Creature rolling scum that game was luck. He as a player is pretty much flipped by the end of D1 no matter what.

This game I'd like to think I really discovered something in the Beefster push. Unlucky if I accidentally dragged town off a scum wagon. I really don't think the Arch case was any good but I'll go look over D1 again.

[Mathdino]

guys stop this

i already looked into both their sitewide activity levels, they were site-inactive on the days that we started getting all weird about them not being around

it's not like they were both posting in other games and avoiding this thread

interesting, assembler IS actually posting in other games

but that's also assembler so

[Mathdino]

Dont you think we should wait for assemble to

respond to the prod

replace out

?

ftfy

[Mathdino]

we're already in a sort of multiball mylo

we lynch wrong today, we're basically relying on scum to kill scum for us or we lose

so we need to lynch the person most likely to be scum

waiting on raya to check in; if she's cool with the archwing lynch that's probably gonna be the right call

4/5 of the rest of you are masons/monks and no one has spoken up accusing their partner yet so archwing-VT is less likely by the hour

[Mathdino]

i mean there are 7 of us alive, and most of us are site active

there isn't really "stagnation", we're all still invested in this

hopefully assembler gets replaced and the slot does something of note

[Mathdino]

i wouldn't mind that

if scum know who masons and monks are it could potentially increase the chance of crosskill

not actually gonna argue for that cuz i'm not totally sure

[Mathdino]

Well mafia is definitely Assembler or Archwing.

You guys deal with this shit, this is ridiculous tbh.

Honestly if we end up 2v1v1 tomorrow just lynch Assembler and throw the game to someone who deserves it.

[Mathdino]

Waiting on Raya yeah. From my perspective (don't confirm or deny this) Raya could be masons/monks with someone much scummier than Archwing and decide that we should focus there instead.

Like, we need to seriously consider the fact that if Archwing isn't mafia (and I doubt he's werewolf), that means either:
A. The 3rd vanilla is actually the mafia.
B. The mafia for sure had extra knowledge from being a monk that might've changed their gameplan.

[Mathdino]

I think massclaim is necessary at this point. I also think massclaim increases the chances of crosskill.

If we don't at least half-gamesolve now, it's more than likely game over.

Particularly I want to know who the 3rd vanilla is.

But besides that, if anyone can claim mason/monk and clear themselves of mafia/wolf suspicion respectively, it reduces a lot of options. Also creates some clarity on some of the weirder reads you guys are having.

Don't really care who goes first. 2 claims solves the rest.

[Mathdino]

Be my guest then.

[Mathdino]

Ideally yeah. Reduces the list of possible suspects. I consider this semi-equivalent to MyLo so yeah it does seem best.

I think No Lynch would also be viable too actually. But scum would probably kill people we weren't gonna lynch anyway.

[Mathdino]

LOL ALMOST50 FUCKING CALLED IT

AMAZING

THIS IS WHY I DIDNT WANT PEOPLE USING ASSOCIATIVES

[Mathdino]

... Ehh, screw it. I think my above post basically hinted on what I am, so I'll come out and say what I think.

We know Dino isn't Monk/Mason, neither is Archie, and with the way we're all treating Assemble.... It's figured out now.

Me and Raya are one pair while Dave and Dunn are the other.

So what's your read on Raya? Has there been any chatter from the PT?

Also Dunnstral calling Dave a possible wolf implies Dunn/Dave are the masons while you guys are monks, correct?

[Mathdino]

...so you guys are monks, right?

Meaning if one of you is scum, it'd have to be scum with Kotoko.

[Mathdino]

Jay/Raya looks clear to me. I'd really be surprised if either of them bussed Beefster. I want Raya's take though.

I can understand why Dunn/dave aren't totally solid on each other. That alone means we shouldn't be wolfhunting today I think.

So unless we have a mafia monk AND a werewolf mason, I know for a fact that one of {Archwing, Assembler} is scum.

I'd prefer to go with Archwing.

[Mathdino]

lol i wasn't looking for that but yeah that's a pretty obvious crumb

heavily implies that whoever the remaining wolf was just straight up ignored it or is bad at PR hunting

[Mathdino]

So if a mason is werewolf, Beefster would've known pre-game that one of them wasn't mafia.

Beefster's behaviour toward davesaz (randomly townreading him) actually strongly implicates Dunnstral as wolf.

Gonna look for similar knowledge in Kotoko's ISO.

[Mathdino]

i think you convinced me raya killed almost

This sentiment is impossible if Koto is scum with either Jay or Ray. If Koto/Jay, Koto should know Raya is locktown. If Koto/Ray, this is just a weird stance to take.

So Jay/Raya are definitely town.

I think I'm ready for Archwing lynch then.

Scum is in {Archwing, Assembler, Dunnstral}.

[Mathdino]

Explain your read on davesaz first?

Because if you and davesaz are ever able to clear each other, that confirms Archwing/Assembler as scum to me.

[Mathdino]

I don't think we're interpreting the same thing out of Dave's posts

But you do realize this locks Archwing as mafia

Unless you think Dave is Kotos partner

[Mathdino]

Iso'd Kotoko -- complained about A50's read. Iso'd Almost50 -- pointed a strong association case at Kotoko.
Along with being someone who pushed the cw on a lurker, good enough for me.

VOTE: Kotoko Utsugi

to do list:
reread Archwing & Raya
Check activity list to see if our wayward lurkers have been gone long enough to request a prod.

This was 3 minutes after my Kotoko vote
Why bus here

We nab wolf tomorrow yeah

[Mathdino]

[L-2] Archwing [2] Dunnstral, Mathdino

Lolwut

[Mathdino]

Would've lol'd it he posted the flip anyway