Mini Normal 1984: Big Brother is watching.. [END GAME]

[Thor665]

VOTE: Profii

Sheeping Profii.

[Thor665]

@Sauce - if you're voting me and FOSing rb why aren't you outraged that we're both voting for Profii?
@Dunkerdoodles - why is your vote serious at this stage, and if you want to lay out a serious vote why not address the largest wagon?
@Eth0s - what made you come back about 6 hours after your RVS to read the rules?
@hyung - why did you want to post info about you being sleepy? Are you trying to distance from your RVS vote already, or what? You had a 3 vote wagon and a stated serious vote so why not comment on or react one of them?
@Lalendra - What do you think about Sauce theorizing about an SK during Day 1? Pro town or meaningless drivel? Why do you think that?
@Flavour Leaf - why are you intentionally not sheeping me?

I'm intentionally not asking rb a question because he's the only player (besides maaaaaybe Dunkerdoodles) who is at least trying to gamesolve and generate actual value.
I'm intentionally not asking Profii a question because his next post will either make him confirmed scum or confirmed derp to me anyways

[Thor665]

@Thor maybe

So you might have an issue with it and are undecided?
What are you planning to do to help decide if it's okay or scummy?

I'm intentionally not asking rb a question because he's the only player (besides maaaaaybe Dunkerdoodles) who is at least trying to gamesolve and generate actual value.

Are you confessing to not trying to gamesolve and generate actual value?

I don't think I am because nothing in there says that.
How do you translate what I said to get that conclusion?

It obviously wasn't a serious vote - however, if you lot decide it was super scummy and move to lynch me - that's ok but before the hammer, I can tell you it's an ok play for town but definitely not the best... consider that a breadcrumb for later.

This is super weak.
Also, if your entire self vote was a gambit for reads (barf) and you got reactions that made you question rb and other posts to question eth0s and Sauce.

Why aren't you voting one of them as your top scumread right now?
Fake effort is fake?

[Thor665]

Put your selves in my shoes. You self voted and got the reactions. Who do you vote for?

I don't know because I don't play with bad reaction tests that don't test scum/town intent.

If you can draw a firm read out of that, then you are a better player than me.

You claimed three reads and didn't vote a single one of them - that's why I asked you about it.
You're now avoiding answering the rather straightforward question with random bluster and a counter attack.

If you are saying I should commit to someone, it would probably be you. Quietly sneaking on the self lynch is an easy way to form a wagon, which is something scum will want.
Asking Flavour Leaf to sheep you, further backs this up

How was my vote on you quiet - especially since you seem to think I was directly asking for someone to sheep me?

[Thor665]

@Profii

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... ng_as_Town

For your education if you are town.
Though that reaction makes me really want to flip you now.

[Thor665]

quiet - relative to rb.

as I said, flipping me is fine but if I get to intent I'll explain why.

If I am only quiet in comparison to rb - how does that make my quiet scum intentioned?

I'm not aware of any plans pertaining to any supposed issues or indecision with regard to whether the expressed FOS ought to induce the emotional stimuli you inquired about.

I did make a presumption that any expressed FOS is worth exploring - is it your intention to *not* follow up on your thoughts?
Why even enter into that discussion? It would be an admittance of low quality play - so, therefore there is presumably a reason you're doing nothing.
What is it?

But that's not even where you draw the line, at least I seem to pick up an additional insinuation pertaining to a potential unwillingness to investigate this fictional unresolved issue, and frankly I'd just welcome you dropping this thing as opposed to asking you to elaborate on whether or not that is the case and what it entails.

It is assuredly the case.

How do you translate what I said to get that conclusion?

No translation was necessary. I simply expressed what was implied, reversed 'you are' and attached a question mark to it, to point out that you didn't include yourself into the list of players who are supposedly trying to solve the game and generate actual value.

You mean you'd like me to offer updates on how I think I'm town?
I could do it - seems stupid.
So your question was just sturm and drang then?
Refer to above first posited question to you in this post then.

Needless to say I don't find speculating about the amount of mafia players in this game to be a non-point.

Why is that?
I see no particular gain in it today - what gain do you see?
(I will clarify that I'm not daft enough to call it scummy - but it is apparently wasted air)

Thor also scum
Why did you make a wall post page 1

I did it because the game state needed a kick in the pants to prevent my personal boredom.
Why is making a wall on Page 1 scummy?

[Thor665]

I'm not holding my breath on the accuracy of that - but it's not like Dunker is radiating town to me either, so rock on.
It's either a gambit I dislike or you hard aborting from a push you realize isn't working for you.

[Thor665]

Why isn't profii lynched yet

Because what you're doing isn't functionally advancing a lynch on him.

I see no particular gain in it

today

I'd like to know what people think is the appropriate number of mafia, and the likelihood of there being an sk in a 10 player game with daytalk now, and don't see any gain in picking the discussion back up again later.

Re: FOS-stemming discussion:
no, thank you

So you want to spend time discussing scum team size and possible SK for the benefit of knowing if we're hunting 2 or 3 group scum on a day when all associative tells are meaningless until post Day 1 flip anyway?

Nope, still not getting it.

To answer your question - it's perfectly possible for there to be a SK and also perfectly possible there isn't, with 2 *or* 3 group scum depending on how powerful town is.

We've now had the entire conversation possible as far as I'm aware.
Where would you like to take it now?

So you generated a post which needed others to imply you are town in order to get your point across the way you intended (which was basically a fuck you to everyone for not having broken the game on page 1), and avoid the pitfall of erroneously assuming you slipped. Sturm und drang, no, wut? idk. I'm just trying to make sense of it.

They didn't need to imply I was town to understand I was castigating them.
In fact everyone but you being obtuse appears to have understood me.
Is this going anywhere interesting or are you just trying to win a side debate so you'll feel smart?

[Thor665]

We've now had the entire conversation possible as far as I'm aware.
Where would you like to take it now?

Nowhere, in fact I'm the one advocating in favor of never bringing it up again.

How about the setup spec?

[Thor665]

And no, I'm not going to answer such silly questions.

What's silly about the questions exactly?
It seems a very reasonable thing to ask about - why do you disagree?

Thor
Profil
That Saucy Guy

Dunkerdoodles
Rb

eth0s

If you believe this why are you avoiding interacting with me about my Profii scum read?

[Thor665]

If you believe this why are you avoiding interacting with me about my Profii scum read?

Profil

I understand your read on Profii - that was made clear by my question.
Your answer here is a direct dodge of my question.
Want to try again?

[Thor665]

I'm not sure it's clear scummy.
Anti-town, sure, but the scum intent behind it is more nebulous.
I kind of feel it's like his setup spec that he defended like mad but as soon as I actually engaged him in a discussion of it he ran and hid.
I get the vibe he's just trying to feel clever by winning empty debate points - but, meh, that's something I sometimes do too because I think I'm smarter than everyone else in the room.

He's not helping town at all though - that's blatantly obvious.

[Thor665]

S A U C E I S N E X T

Did you not actually care about your last question and my answer to it - or are you just doing a bad Fate impression right now?

[Thor665]

How's your scum or derp read on profii progressing?

I'm still voting him.

Want to discuss setup yet or are you fully ignoring it now?

[Thor665]

#111 was pretty derp though, wasn't it? I mean what the hell is he talking about anyway? Or have you transitioned out of finding derp and scummy irreconcilable? If so when when you going to tell us.

I find #111 in line with his other posting.
I haven't made any statements wherein I find derp and scummy irreconcilable as far as I am aware - feel free to explain how I have.
I will take this non-sequitur as admitting that I owned your face on your derp setup spec whine and you agree it was meaningless drivel. Feel free to correct me with further info.

[Thor665]

is next post will either make him confirmed scum or confirmed derp to me anyways

Seems as though you're correct; my mistake.. Indeed your entrance post seems even more devoid of curiosity, if you're going to call people derp without it being an instrument to read them, just to troll them.

What does my entrance post have to do with calling people derp?

So what needs to happen for you to start doing something other than trying to bring up setup discussion again and voting for the derp guy because it's easy?

So, yeah, I was right about the setup. Why did you waste our time then?
Also, what about my vote on Profii is based around him being derp? It's based around him being scummy.

[Thor665]

Are you openly claiming scum to me right now, with this Smurf? You know which post I mean and you know (if you can read) that I said your vote was easy. Who the Smurf said anything about the derp post-clear-up, whereby I've cleared up the whole derp thing as me having mistakingly assumed it could be salvaged as a means to scumhunting but you confirmed it not being so.

Yeah, I know what post you're referring to.
The issue is that in the post in no way at all did I connect derp with scum.
Which means since you're claiming I did that you need to back that gak up, or I have to assume you're really dumber than I think you are or it becomes scummy.
Can you clear it up?

You also know I've explicitly said that I don't want setup discussion to re-emerged now that I've had my suspicions of the possibility of an sk and a 2 player scumteam confirmed. You can't own your own Smurf let alone my face you dumbSmurf. The setup discussion is over, afai'm concerned. It wasn't useless and it could've stayed at occupying one line in one lousy post if anyone would've had the common sense to just go with it without acting like bastards again and again. Smurf YOU . AND GET LYNCHED.

Dude, you argued that the setup spec was logical and your best defense for it is "now I know there's a possibility for an SK"?
Please, just wait till we get a double kill before bringing up derp and acting like it's worth my time.

Why aren't you voting Profii right now?

[Thor665]

If you were trying to lynch him for toxicity I could get behind that. Not really seeing sauce!scum at this point tbh.

Do you see Saucetown?
Also, why do you see Flavour as scum and not Sauce? They're basically both doing the same thing (posting garbage in a gimmick way) but at least Flavour's garbage is generally readable and more game related, no?

Fake claiming ignorance about the fact that if I have claimed such a thing as you having connected derp with scum it would be irrelevant either way, as I undoubtedly renounced of any such claims in subsequent posts. So what are we talking about here? How stupid Thor is or how dumb he thinks I am. Either way it's his fault we're having this discussion on the outdated premise he's invoking.. did he not read the posts I wrote later? Am I supposed to think for him and figure out what he might have missed? Stupidity endorses perceived prerogatives of how others ought to think for the person it nests in, intelligence does not.

So now you're backing off from the stupid claim and that justifies you not having to explain why you got there in the first place?
This isn't the first time you've pulled that in this game - am I going to be wading through this 'accuse first think second' gak from you all game, or are you going to chill out and start engaging in any real sense.

As far as voting Profii - as far as I can tell your entire case to me you've backpeddeled on so I'm not sure why you're even still voting me.
Therefore you should notice I'm at worst a null tell.
And you appear to have issues with Profii - so you could vote him.

What's your current case on me exactly if I'm wrong on the above?

after sauce we do flavor leaf

Why do you hate both of those players and have not mentioned Dunkerdoodles?

[Thor665]

I don't take advice from someone who made it clear that they have no problem with misinterpreting the truth. If you're going to mistake this ad hominem AtE for something town would post upon having been called out for scummy behavior, I suggest you don't mind me calling you out for it, and hopefully succeed in getting you lynched.

(@Thor is this game-relevant enough for you?)

Not really - it reads generally like a continuation of the personal attacks that have laced your play thus far and, to my mind, aid obfuscation of your alignment either intentionally or unintentionally.

Theoretically intellectuals should stay cool calm and collected and be able to express their views succinctly and clearly, yeah?

Even if he's faking it, acronym is doing a better job at it because he *is* turning the tide of the game against you, and you're just AtE walling back at him. It mildly leaves me wanting you both dead, but you far more than him.
You dodging/missing my question to you while also asking for feedback on your play also leaves me puzzled - which is further suggesting to me that lack of clarity will be the by-word for you going forward and that also increases my desire to maybe just cleanse the game of you.

:shrug:

[Thor665]

I'd add Sauce to that list.
Words don't equate to analysis.

[Thor665]

You are voting profii because it's easy. You called him derp for no reason other than to troll him, on account of a self-vote, because you figured you needed to stage consistency by linking to your wiki.

I called him derp for a very specific reason and described it.
If I am voting Profii because it's 'easy' I predicted that he would make it easy very accurately, and frankly I would suggest that half the game is 'easy' as far as leaving a vote on it. Also, are you saying all scum are hard wagons? Because I'd disagree with that in a heartbeat.

And that's your case on me?
That I find self voting derp and you think Profii is an easy vote?
Yeah, I'm blatant scum right there. [/sarcasm]

Why do you town read Profii? Is it too scum to be scum, or something else?

Your follow up on his wallpost is hardly going to convince anyone to vote him.

It's going better than you getting people to vote me, isn't it?

He's being molded into whatever space the game's progression leaves open for him. He attacks the one leading my wagon as if to discredit it, yet he threatens to vote me. Acryon is supposedly scummy NOW, that his vote on me has actually produced something apparently beneficial for town with regard to finding out the game.

I defended one aspect of the wagon on you, yes, but I also advanced other parts.
Last I checked just because I disagree with some aspect of a push on you it doesn't actually follow that I have to disagree with the idea of pushing you for other things.
That would make no sense.

It was a rhetorical question. Of course someone who has participated in dishing out in-tandem personal attacks won't surprise me by seeing this for the content it is.

I never attacked you in anything resembling a personal way until after you did so to me.
If you want to be treated with politeness you need to treat others with politeness.

Also rb is town and profii is scum
Probably

How can you think Profii is scum if you also think I'm scum?

[Thor665]

Unvote: Profii
Vote: Sauce

@Sauce - I noted you complained a lot about my questions and threw shade like mad.
But beyond claiming that my questions were weak didn't attach a scum reasoning to any of them.
Then you claim...well, a complicated nothing about me and profii.
This is your best explained reasoning so far this game.

Die please.

[Thor665]

And for clarity - I dislike the eth0s push.
Complaining about lack of clear town reads in a game where we all have to admit that over half the player list isn't dong anything is...iffy.

[Thor665]

it becomes chicken and egg though, the players doing nothing can sit and say I cant read the game nothing is happening.
the other half complain nothing is happening because youre not posting.

repeat ad infinitum whilst deadlines pass and no scum die

Except I'm not saying anything quite like that.
What I'm saying is claiming someone having a derth of town reads in a game where, objectively, half the game is playing in a way to avoid givingopinions and thus making themselves near unreadable and anti-town is not a really compelling case.

@Sauce - you're still saying nothing and using a lot of words to do it and insulting people and then being shocked you get "trashtalked".

Moar Sauce votes please and thank you.

[Thor665]

One thing I've observed about Dunker and eth0s, the two posts which I've immortalized in my sig came at a rapid succession.
If I were to look for scum somewhere outside the group of people whose wincondition apparently consists of tying to trigger me and partially succeeding due their synergy, I'd say those two, that would be kind of cool.
While town is busy being asshats all it takes to escalate it further is a two-sentence diss, and total irreproachability due to it being kind of funny. If so, the only mistake they commited was to post the second one unreasonably fast after the first one.

I started trolling you when it took you fifty thousand words to say you suspect me on 'gut'/

I’m inclined to say we should lynch saucy waucy but I am reluctant to make a decision when we only have 2 posts from 1 player... I’ll feel better after hearing from everyone

Considering Hyung is either intentionally not providing posts or is going to get replaced out, how much time are you planning to waste waiting for a post from them?

You need to either try to lycnh the slot, or accept that it's a black hole.
Waiting will just give us 10+ more pages of Flavor quoting BS, rb and Dunker raging about lack of lynch, and Sauce verbally self-pleasuring Sauce.

Am I missing something?
Can you show me a game that proves my expectations wrong?

[Thor665]

And, actually, my trolling only really lasted for about two or so posts when you were spouting off like a jackass.
I'm much more 'meh' on you now that I realize you never say anything.
The whole wall with Acronyn, numbers notwithstanding, was basically just you going 'you're stupid' at him over and over. There's nothing behind you, and you haven't even made one read outside of deciding who is or is not stupid the entire game. If you're town, you're playing in a way I suggest is poor. If you're scum, your play is wonderful - but I'm going to lynch you for it.

[Thor665]

I'm not even trolling Sauce, he trolls himself.

I dunno, he got me a touch hot and made me want to tweak him back.
You're saying he never even bugged you?
I'm basically about ten posts away from never reading anything else he posts at this stage, and that's how I'm keeping chill about him - you're just cucumbering?

[Thor665]

I think at the moment, I'm leaning towards dunkerdoodles, hyung and either Thor or Sauce. Dunkerdoodles because I haven't seen much meaningful content from them, and they are getting townread by people for what seems like very little to no reason. Hyung because they haven't posted enough for me to really get a read on them and partly PoE. Thor/Sauce because I don't believe this is scum theater or TvT, it feels like it's genuine, but I'm having a hard time figuring out which one is town and which one is scum who is spitballing.

so im scum for getting townread

That's not what she said.
She said you're doing nothing - and she's surprised people are townreading you. Which is a valid stance.

[Thor665]

VOTE: flavor

Meh - you're playing anti-town.
You deserve votes for playing a weak ass playstyle of cowards.

[Thor665]

Odds of a saucy jester?

Zero.

Vote him anyway.

[Thor665]

Congratulations, compared to being kicked in the face you're just a punch to the face?

[Thor665]

He is explaining his thoughts, he's dealing with the pressure.

He's actually not doing either of these things.
Could you show me the 'explaining thoughts' bit at least? That's the one that ought to be objectively provable.
All he's explained is why he thinks people are stupid.
I'm dead serious on that analysis. It's scum spew through and through.

[Thor665]

And I will fucking MAKE YOU LYNCH ME because I've had it with this game and I have a team mafia championship to tend to.

Am I actually fooling anyone as to the degree in which I let these jesters get to me?
VOTE: Thor
Look. I think nobody here can deny the level of effort I've invested in this game. I'm not sure about who can say this other than me so listen the fuck up: I've read this entire game, I know what each and everyone said and how you said it and what you meant in case of a discrepancy. Nobody is more qualified to decide today's lynch than me. Fall in line and sheep me.

If you're claiming to be the mirror and complaining about the result of the reflection - yeah, you're the solution to the problem.

Also, I will, as already stated, officially go on the record in claiming you're not putting effort into the game. Or, to clarify, you're putting in effort - but literally none of that effort is game solving or pro-town and thus equates to no effort in any meaningful way.

I'm down to lynch either Sauce or Flavor.
People should either get Flavor to L-1 or get on Sauce for me.

For the record to both of you, if either of you are town and are using "too many games need to focus elsewhere" as a justification for givign up.
Please avoid games with me in the future until you learn how to play properly.
You replace out or don't overextend. You don't whine and cannonball your team.

[Thor665]

This is my only ongoing game. If you would've been interested in my alignment you could've checked, but why am I producing content as to how you cannot possibly be town, when I can just reflect your douchebaggery

back to you

, because I'm not ok with projecting someone's reflection on to someone else, and unjustifiably generalize, distort and truncate the end result. What a horrible person. Might be the norm here, but still .. damn!
Let me say this again in a respectful manner, meh, why bother. Thor, as your superior in strength of character I advise you if you are town to refrain from grouping two players together as to pin the apparent flaws of one on to another, and then self-pamper yourself and whine about how how it affects your comfort zone.
Do play with me again if you wish. I will always try to be first on the signup list of games that interest me, so you don't have to worry about me barging in and making sense, trying to win the game --while you are occupied reenacting your childhood traumas or whatever it is you're getting out of this game-- without clear warning.
Ironically I don't even wish for you to replace out, and the only reason why I'd consider replacing out be because I'm saddened by your inability to see how stupid these unjustified generalizations/truncations are. However, no amount of me replacing out will save future intelligent beings from being bamboozled to empathize with your chronic cognitive and egotistic dysfunction, so .. I guess you'll just have to try harder to get me banned.

Well, first off let me note that this is yet again a giant wall that says nothing game related.

Second off - I'm a douchebag now? What have I done that is douchey to you (or anyone this game) exactly? You're incredibly rude and whiny.

It’s not an excuse at all. I’ll play in 50 games. And I’ll play to win. I’m competitive as Smurf. You should know this by now. If i say something like that, it’s AtE, which I do as town.

You also do it as scum, and should never do it as town. So...

There is no possible way that townRb and townThor could see me as not town at this point. Thor at least mentioned it.

Why couldn't we see you as not town?
I had you as town until you claimed third party in reaction to a super minor question.
Then you derped off hard in such a way that made you unhelpful to my wincon while throwing around so much chaff as to be almost as bad as Sauce.

Are you claiming that's not my meta?
Straight talk Flavor - tell me what Thor does, regardless of alignment, to people who are being lazy dicks posting crud in games.
This is a test of your alignment.

And after you answer that - then justify your claim that me saying I'd vote you is *remotely* scummy.

P.S. I'm actually happy you're posting now. Your previous play was more toxic than this.

I would like to see you go Thor vs me on these voting nomads, believe me, it's where his style is best put to good use, yet here he is and there his iso is, and his vote is on me. Why, if not to keep them as lylo liability for later?

Why do you think I should believe changing votes is scummy?
Because I don't.

thor = eth0s town reads me, i dont think you do, issues? Any thoughts on Lalendras town read of saucy?

1. That shows a lack of awareness of my reads, and I don't understand how it would be an issue regardless since I'm not pushing either of you and neither of you have a large wagon on you.

2. I think she's fooling herself into thinking he's done anything alignment telling for town this game.

[Thor665]

After that action adventure, I'm pretty much just waiting on a vote count.

[Thor665]

I'm not voting Profii - I'm voting Sauce.

[Thor665]

@Lal - To what end?

[Thor665]

Causing late-game confusion when people are trying to do VCA and using inaccurate vote counts and then everyone ends up arguing over who voted who and when instead of trying to find scum.

I've never seen that happen ever - but if it does late game this time I'll adjust my take.

[Thor665]

I'll agree with that.
But the gambit seems like such a stretch - at some point late game he's hoping people will VCA off his counts and get a little confused?

[Thor665]

I've seen stretchier gambits. Hell, look at FL's role flailing.

I find that to be a gambit with far better results.

[Thor665]

Heck, apparentlt per mod he was correct.

Vote: Saiuce

VOTE: Sauce

[Thor665]

Thor: why is Sauce the scummiest player in the game for you?

What do you think of eth0s play so far?

Because unlike some of the other non-performing slots I think he's
1. Capable of more (which he's shown in very small flashes)
2. Not honestly believing his method is scumhunting (like say a Dunker)
Combine that with the black hole of content he is who is trolling/insulting people and then complaining that people are attacking him when they're just reacting to him and he's either straight troll, bad scum, or toxic town - he should just die Day 1 because if this town doesn't lynch one of the non-suppliers of info then this town is being very foolish indeed.

I find eth0s not great, but he does appear to be contributing in a manner I believe is commensurate with his skill. He does offer reads and reasonably clear thoughts. Frankly, I'd put him near the top of my town reads in all honesty, though it's a short walk at the moment .

[Thor665]

Okay that's actually fairly consistent, but do you really think eth0s is just bad at the game and that's why he's lacking content? How do you rule out that he might just be coasting scum?

Snarky answer - I've got more egregious coasters to worry about
Reasoned answer -meh, hard to tell. I'd say I kinda gut townish him more than the others. Feels like he's trying.

Sauce read makes sense, although I don't know it's accurate either because fruatrated town do tend to be simultaneously toxic + defensive. I'm not familiar with either player's ability level so I can't make a read on contribution to potential ratio. To me they just both seem underwhelming.

Sauce was doing it long before he had any reason to feel attacked or put upon though.
It does sound like maybe it's semi-meta if you listen to whoever it was that has played with him before, but judging by some of the very mild effort he has advanced, I'm suspicious this game is far more toxic than his norm, and even if it's not then we have to accept that this is town standard for him, in which case Day 1 is the optimal time for town to sort that because it would be daft to take him to lylo. I'd rather have Dunker and Flavor there in a heartbeat because they're actually playing the game.

[Thor665]

Still not getting the eth0s townreads though

Can you explain an eth0s scum read for a compare/contrast?
And if you only have him at null why are we even wasting time on the discussion at this stage?

Sauce was doing it long before he had any reason to feel attacked or put upon though.
It does sound like maybe it's semi-meta if you listen to whoever it was that has played with him before, but judging by some of the very mild effort he has advanced, I'm suspicious this game is far more toxic than his norm, and even if it's not then we have to accept that this is town standard for him, in which case Day 1 is the optimal time for town to sort that because it would be daft to take him to lylo.

Here's the game I was referring to:
viewtopic.php?f=51&t=74342

I just went back and looked and it does seem like he is being a bit more aggressive here than he was in that game, but I'll leave it to you to make your own assessment.

Went over that iso really fast and here are things I noted;

1. Short content minded posts.
2. Only really noted one serious insult fest calling someone a manchild.
3. Did not dwell on calling everyone stupid - in fact a ctrl+F of smart, dumb, stupid, intelligent basically came back with almost nothing.

He was either super relaxed that game and decided to be a trolly jerk in this game, or for some reason somebody massively set him off (I personally feel he attacked me ages before I started poking at him and have the same recall for the acronym interaction - feel free to fact check me)
Or he's scum in this game.

What are your thoughts?

[Thor665]

What are your thoughts?

Is there any kind of non-jester but normal role that gets some kind of ability if lynched by the town. He seems to be actively being a jerk so this is my main line of thinking

I don't see him actively being a jerk to be connected to role - as he did wait till people questioned his actions and statements before acting jerk-like.
The question is whether he is brittle enough that questioning him just sets him off - or is he nervous scum who went whole hog as soon as he felt any suspicion towards him.

Considering the word games he opted to play with me (relevant things to look at our his dissection of my "all of you" statement) I then find how he reacted to Acronym's question (2 days would be the ctrl+f to find it in iso) to read funny. If he thinks it's interesting/funny/scumhunting to dissect my words why the hell would he blow up on Acronym for straight up asking him about something he explicitly said?

That reads funky to me - and Acronym was *not* being a jerk when he asked, but got all the shotguns to the face in return.
That's what's bugging me.

[Thor665]

I've played with rb a few times.
His recent play feels logical in this game, but frankly looking back at his opening that was a little more wild and woolly.
Starting wild and zeroing in on more facts as the game becomes deeper feels townish to me.
I would oppose a wagon on him today just based on my general desire to kill the slots that will be nigh impossible to read later.

[Thor665]

Also, I don't think I said it, but the way the FL replace out happened felt townish to me.
He was whining - but it felt more like offended town than scum wanting to avoid being lynched. I don't think FL would duck taking a lynch he deserved.

[Thor665]

I love you as a human being, but you're being mean and trolling the game. Please replace out or get lynched.

[Thor665]

@Sauce - much like how I asked you to explain how I;m being a douche and you ran away I will invite you to explain what I'm lying about.

By my accounting you have as long as it takes for everyone else to notice you're scumclaiming at this stage.

[Thor665]

I think scum are most likely the people not giving much weight to the game at this point and allowing the situation to unfold. I'm townblocking thor, profii, jodax, dunker.

Where's everyone on their townreads of those 4 slots?

The most scummy read I have there is a town lean.
So since I'm not really looking to lynch any of them today - rock on.

This is my top scum read at the moment. I need to finish reading Sauce's longer posts, but I think I'd rather have Lalendra today.
Are there any town reads on Lalendra? If there are, why?

I probably soft town lean her.
The bulk of the argument against her is opportunism which I don't think is a particularly true statement and would love you to unpack it and support it as a stance, or explain why she's scum outside of that.
She has been generally open with her reads and has interacted, and I personally think her transition on Sauce reads town. She presented some general meta defense, assessed my take on it, gave Sauce an option to rebut which he refused, and then she moved her vote.
If that's opportunistic (I forget who's calling that as a case on her but I know someone is) she was banking on a lot of pieces to fall in place for said opportunism.

Also, as I've said earlier, this town would be foolish to lynch today any slot that's contributing functionally considering we have multiple slots that aren't.
Those slots need to be sorted.
I think we'll be able to sort slots like Lalendra much easier tomorrow after flips then we would with a slot like Sauce.
You disagree/town Sauce?

@Thor I've done the thing you ask me about throughout the entire game, just read my iso. I've also done it with profii's and acryone. As a sign of intent to lay down your bullshit why don't

you

quote any post of yours first and then ask me to explain to you how you've been lying about what I've said prior, again, instead of re-writing Infinite Jest just so you can have another lol at my expense.

So to make sure I understand this - you'd like me to quote posts showing that I'm not lying and not being a douche and then allow you to rebut them by showing that I am lying and am being a douche?

Weird and not natural, this feels like a dodge to me.
But I'll play;

viewtopic.php?p=9903623#p9903623
viewtopic.php?p=9903657#p9903657

Functionally these posts represent the case that people are sheeping me on to vote you over.
Please describe how they are lies/me being a douche.
I'll wait.

In other news, I'd like to keep Sauce at L-1 and get someone to offer a hammer intent.
I think it's the appropriate time in the day for that, and even though people are fighting about this wagon advancing no one is actually saying they town read him.
It's making me feel like the wagon is just.

[Thor665]

@Dunk - no.

[Thor665]

Me quoting someone insulting you qualifies as me insulting you?
Woosh!

Calling someone stupid is jerk-like behavior in my world - feel free to change 'jerk-like' to any descriptor you feel is appropriate and my comment holds as stands.

The insults masked as content...eh, I can see that angle, but considering your iso it is a conversation to be had. You've been actively hostile for a large part of the game - I thought brittle was a nicer way to phrase it than your choice towards me of douchebag. Let me know what word you prefer and I'll use it in the future.

For your day/Day issue with Acroyn.
Could you restate it using Day for Game Days and day for real life days?
Because you seem to occasionally use that distinction, but it's hard to parse because I feel like you're switching back and forth and want to make sure I understand your complaint here.

Yes, I would love you to address the other post.

[Thor665]

If, however, I've been mistreated with accusations implying otherwise so much that it can't be expected of me to tolerate it any longer then I will go HAM on the agents of mistreatment and am in no way responsible for anything, because the insults prevented me from improving my state. No amount of taking out of context subsequent posts is going to change that

Also, out of curiosity.
If this is your stance.

How does that apply to Acro or myself if we disagree with your assessment of our own stupidity and how we're allowed to act towards you in exchange?
And then how does that justify your issues with supposed behavior going forward?

[Thor665]

I'm not going to read anything you say unless you back it up with post links.

Nothing I said would have a post to link it to - they're self contained statements or questions.

Not going to address the second post until you do.

Until I do what?
I can't address my own post.

More Sauce votes please - he's not selling me on town.
People can feel free to explain how he's town if they see it.
I know people are pushing non-Sauce wagons and avoiding the conversation - but...

[Thor665]

The insults masked as content...eh, I can see that angle, but considering your iso it is a conversation to be had. You've been actively hostile for a large part of the game - I thought brittle was a nicer way to phrase it than your choice towards me of douchebag.

Back this up with links to posts.

Okay?
Here's a link to you calling me a douchebag.
viewtopic.php?p=9891241#p9891241

For your day/Day issue with Acroyn.
Could you restate it using Day for Game Days and day for real life days?

Link to the issue. capitalized Day obviously means dayphase.

I would agree capitalized Day means Dayphase.
If you meant only Dayphase when capitalized and day when not - then what's your issue with Acro here exactly? Which is what I asked for clarification on.
viewtopic.php?p=9906645#p9906645

Because you seem to occasionally use that distinction, but it's hard to parse because I feel like you're switching back and forth and want to make sure I understand your complaint here.

Lies.

You're saying I'm lying when I find it hard to parse what you mean and want you to clarify it?
...okay?

Then why is

Spoiler: this

I'm not going to read anything you say unless you back it up with post links. Not going to address the second post until you do. Thank you for your cooperation.

so hard for you to understand?

I am currently spending time linking you to posts you made today. I think my confusion is self-explanatory.
But to explain it to you - when you make a demand that doesn't appear to be needed about an ongoing conversation from mere hours earlier, it makes me either have to believe you have some odd memory that is hyper forgetful, like the guy from the Memento movie or something (which I don't believe you have) or are jerking my chain - and I am unimpressed.
Your other link demand was to you being aggressive - since you also made a post today justifying your aggression and explaining that only your need to attack back on your attackers is preventing you from scumhunting I thought that meant you understood when and how you were being aggressive in a general enough sense to have a conversation about it. Even what you're doing now is being passive aggressive/regular aggressive - so I could basically quote the post you're demanding aggressive links in as my link. SO, again, my belief is that you were jerking my chain at best - and ducking in a scummy manner at worst.

I still lean scummy, because if you're town - please black list me forever.

[Thor665]

Yes, I would love you to address the other post.

I am currently spending time linking you to posts you made today. I think my confusion is self-explanatory.

A moment ago you knew what 'the other post' meant. Now, all of a sudden it's supposed to be cryptic.

I have no idea what you're talking about here.
The first quote is me asking you to address a post.
The second quote is you demanding I provide links before you'll talk to me.
We're not communicating functionally if you think these are connected thoughts - clarify?

[Thor665]

Just say dayphase and day, it's easier.

Sauce's posting is just sad, even if you take it as some kind of parody. This recent exchange is ridiculous, Thor is speaking plainly and you're turning the words into problems with mental gymnastics.

That's actually a very succinct way to describe the core issue with what he's doing and why it's scummy.

[Thor665]

I'm done talking to him - but short answer is he's being intentionally obfusacatory and aggressive and claiming it's everyone's fault that he can't scumhunt.
Meanwhile we have a link to a game where he did get into a very short brawl with someone and kept scumhunting.

He was town in the linked game.
What alignment do you think he is here?

[Thor665]

Very softly increasing my town read on Dunk and Eth0s.
Don't see much action from Lalendra.
But maybe she's townish too due to lack of action and being the counter? Eh, it's more vague there, but I don't see a particularly high value in Eth0s or Dunk scum going to start a counterwagon on her towards the end, moreso for Dunk than Eth0s as he also wasn't mindful of being on a mislynch wagon.

So probably one scum in acryon, rb, Dunk, Lalendra, profii
I don't think Sauce would require a double scum push for a lynch.
So we have eth0s and Kop as high odds for 1 scum amongst them.

VOTE: Kop

You were active at night because you weren't replaced.
How was the scum QT

[Thor665]

Also, pretty safe bet for two scum team here at this stage.
And if you think it's three then I'm even more blindingly right on lynching eth0s or Kop.

[Thor665]

You complaining about eth0s sidelining the game to assess quailty of play and then burning posts explaining how it's bad play...
Pot meet kettle?
I don't get the point.

Come join me on Kop.

[Thor665]

What if the goal is assessing the play of the people who did a 'bad lynch' to find active players playing badly as a scumtell?

[Thor665]

Like, if what he's doing isn't legit, then same for you, and vice versa.
It's the same thing.

[Thor665]

So I'm curious, now that you want to lynch Kop - is this a standalone scumread on Hyung/Kop, and if so or if not - how did the Sauce flip affect it?

The Sauce flip affected it in the way I already described, wherein I don't think both scum were needed to lynch Sauce.
Am I losing you on that description somehow?

Your Eth0s vote, now, by your own admission, is intrinsic upon a theory expection of an analysis he hasn't done yet. That's thin.
WHat's your take on Kop slot?

[Thor665]

@RB - you're saying a lot at me without saying much while accussing me of making the conversation hard, while I'm thinking it's you.
So let's reset;

1. Please in a short version, state why you scumread Eth0s

2. State your read on Kop.

Feel free to ask me anything you are being confused by.

[Thor665]

@RB - you're saying a lot at me without saying much while accussing me of making the conversation hard, while I'm thinking it's you.
So let's reset;

1. Please in a short version, state why you scumread Eth0s

2. State your read on Kop.

Feel free to ask me anything you are being confused by.

1. Read my iso. I'm not in the habit of restating things for everyone who doesn't choose to read.
2. Townread, hyung seemed genuinely overwhelmed and Kop is playing town from my pov

Not confused by anything really, other than how you seem to not be following my thoughts on eth0s.

1. You're only confused by me not following your thoughts while remaining unwilling to restate them for clarity? Hell - just quote me the clear case. You've thrown a lot of mud at the slot, but I'm really not sure what the core bugaboo is - please clarify.

2. How is Kop playing town? He hasn't done anything but be opportunistic.

[Thor665]

I am curious that I've voted Thor and suggested he is directing the lynch and he hasn't defended his 1on1off logic or even acknowledged what I've said. Concerning.

How is it concerning?
Your case lacks logic, and no one is sheeping it, and you haven't asked me anything, so why should I address it?
Also, if you think that's concerning, then I'll note Kop hasn't addressed my case on him - so why aren't you feeling the same concerning vibe there?

[Thor665]

I do read the thread, and nothing in my response suggests I don't.

I do understand your position for your case, that doesn't mean it has logic.
We are not actually making the same case, because mine involves general laws of averages and game experience and yours is based on a non-standard expectation of scum spread in addition to a paranoia case. That's the main differences I spot, feel free to point out how they're more identical than I am indicating.

No, my final question isn't rhetorical, it's serious. If you actually think lack of addressing a case that doesn't request direct addressing is an issue, why are you applying the tell to me and not to Kop? If you don't actually have an issue with it with regards to Kop, then why am I different?

[Thor665]

I've explained my Eth0s townread.
I'll agree I haven't done it deeply, but then it's not a deep read.
I do say the "maths" are wrongbut never indicated it had to do with anything to react to and didn't complain about lack of something to react to.
I mean they're paranoid because they require a lot of 'ANDs'.

For your case to work;
Scum both had to vote Sauce.
Scum "had" (well, not really, but it is generally part of your case and is another presumption with no real basis) to opt to kill off the wagon because of this.
Scum intended to then advance a case against the people off the wagon because they had shrunk the pool and also because both of them were on the wagon.
Scum planned this at night.
No town player could post before scum to mention this idea, even though you appear aware that the idea of one off and on is fairly common.
So the first person mentioning it is scum and the above was their plan.
Ergo Thor is scum.

Very simple options to counter the logic of that case exist, ranging from, both scum weren't on the wagon, to a town brought it up first and scum just agreed with them or decided to let it run. One could even opt for the paranoia reverse, where I could claim you're scum who came up with this idea to tag the first player who pointed out correctly (or incorrectly) that scum were one on and one off.
That's why it's paranoia - lots of presumptions with no actual evidence to support any of them.
That's what I mean when I call it a paranoid case.

[Thor665]

I agree 1 on 1 off would be more normal

But I’d also say “normally” the remaining players would usually be split approx 50/50 on and off the wagon as well - this is absolutely not the case and warrants at least considering other possibilities.

My case is based on if scum both wagon (and I believe given the 10 player game and the flip it is quite likely) what fits. I looked at Acryon but you fit a lot better, this is based on actions you’ve taken in the game that I’ve mentioned

Yeah, nothing you're describing there actually is different than what I described your case as, is it?

[Thor665]

I suppose I didn't agree with the 'quite likely' part.
So really that's the difference.
But that would be it

[Thor665]

Thor you really aren't reading the thread are you

I suppose I'm really bad at comprehending it, yeah, because I still can't really see a clear case from you on;

1. Why do you think Eth0s is scum?
2. Why do you think Kop is town?

I'm not even asking for much. A sentence or two each ought to do it - you've written twice that much complaining that I don't understand you already.
Heck, answer both of them with quotes and show that I'm being a derp-tard and I'll sheep you for the rest of this phase.
But answer me.
This is a super reasonable ask.

[Thor665]

@Kop - I wasn't asking you to address my case.

I'm not basing the case around you not being around. I'm basing it around you having no real activity besides opportunistic voting.

[Thor665]

So you were just asking pro that I hadn't answered your case, that obviously tells me you are asking me to answer your case.

No, it obviously isn't if you read what I actually said and was asking.

How is my vote opportunistic?

Your vote on eth0s exactly mirrors the issue raised by rb, your follow up is Lalandra. Both are low content posters who are being called out by multiple posters, you made no acknowledgement of your direct sheep of rb.

That's why.
Why should I not see it as opportunistic?

[Thor665]

Thor you really aren't reading the thread are you

I suppose I'm really bad at comprehending it, yeah, because I still can't really see a clear case from you on;

1. Why do you think Eth0s is scum?
2. Why do you think Kop is town?

I'm not even asking for much. A sentence or two each ought to do it - you've written twice that much complaining that I don't understand you already.
Heck, answer both of them with quotes and show that I'm being a derp-tard and I'll sheep you for the rest of this phase.
But answer me.
This is a super reasonable ask.

@rb - it remains super reasonable.

[Thor665]

How does me combing through my ISO and quoting myself make more sense than you just reading my ISO? I don't expect people to ever repeat themselves, because it's incredibly boring, frustrating and fills the game with redundant fluff.

The point being is that I've read your iso, but what I want is a one sentence summation. You've thrown out lots of thoughts, but no coherent thoughts.
I want a coherent thought on those two.
I don't need a giant case with links and whatnot - I just want a 1-2 sentence clarifying statement on both.

Again, you're spending more time complaining about giving it then it should take to just give me what I'm asking for.
I'm starting to think you *can't* give me what I'm asking for.
Am I right on that?

People should just read the game, and if there's certain things you don't get then you can ask. What about my posts concerning my eth0s scumread do you not find convincing?

How it translates into a cohesive thought process as opposed to 'here are a handful of random things I find to be scumtells'
viewtopic.php?p=9883994#p9883994
Here's the initial vote - clearly no explanation.
viewtopic.php?p=9887227#p9887227
You expand to 'lack of content' (in what exists as the greatest explanation of your vote)
viewtopic.php?p=9887230#p9887230
Naked empty.
viewtopic.php?p=9887233#p9887233
Playstyle complaint
viewtopic.php?p=9887284#p9887284
Personal insult
viewtopic.php?p=9887304#p9887304
Empty fluff
viewtopic.php?p=9902142#p9902142
Asking someone else to justify your stance while handwaving their stance even though you agree they may have a point.
viewtopic.php?p=9914914#p9914914
Playstyle complaint and restatement of 'no content'

You then have about infinity posts with me claiming you've already said everything you need to say about eth0s caiming you've given 'multiple' reasons, when, at best, you've given one (unless coasting is one and no content a second...?).
Your Kop explanation is basically nonexistent compared to the above, which is pretty nonexistent.

I'll also try not to point out the hypocrisy of you barely saying Smurf about your case, while complaining that eth0s is scum for lack of content (presuming that's 100% of your issue with him)

So, did I nail the eth0s case there?
Because in context with the thread and other players that looks very weak, so I am guessing I'm missing something because otherwise you have a hypocritical and empty case.
And I assuredly am missing the Kop breakdown because you've either never given one of Ctrl+F on Hyung and Kop are failing me in your ISO.

SO, again.

1-2 sentences each.

Why do you scumread eth0s?
Why do you townread Kop?

[Thor665]

We have about 8 days left till deadline.
We have too many vanity wagons.

I still think Kop is the best choice, but since I'm one of the other 4 wagons and I am not really in favor of the other 3 I find moving to be, meh.
That said, I'mma move.

VOTE: Dunkerdoodles

L-1 on Dunkerdoodles

@Dunk, rb, profii
If you don't like a Dunk wagon (and at least one of you shouldn't) I will support you on a Kop wagon if you want to move there.
Lalendra and eth0s I do not really support at this point due to a combination of my reads and night analysis. I recognize I'm probably wrong on one of my scumreads unless it really is Dunk/Kop, but that's where I'm at.

[Thor665]

Dude.
I'm literally just asking you for two sentences.

You then complained and asked me to read your ISO for them.
So I *did what you asked me to do*.
And now you're complaining that I'm too anal retentive.

What the hell man?

[Thor665]

1-2 sentences a pop.

Why is Eth0s scum?
Why is Kop town?

This is literally How to Play Mafia101.
It is not anal retentive.
It is asking about a friggin' read.
Back yourself up and stop being anti-town/scum.

[Thor665]

As far as I can tell from your ISO you voted town 20 times scum 1 time at full confdidence and the one time scum got wagoned you said “actually,no””


So I wouldn’t be complaining I was shot tbh

In all fairness, the accuracy of rb's reads should not actually have bearing on the validity of him as a vig target.
You try to vig scum, not mislead town.

[Thor665]

@mod - I'm not lynchbaity on purpose, it just never fails.

A good exercise to change it in the future is to go and read whatever people are claiming as reasons to suspect you (in this game methinks it would best be summed up as 'fencesitting') and then, as long as it doesn't negatively effect the way you scumhunt, try to alter that situation (like, try to make a few more declarative statements even if you're unsure, or try to avoid posting a sentence when you realize all you're doing is arguing both sides with no conclusion offered).

I don't think there was ever a real case against you, just a generalized lack of solid town evidence in favor of you - and that is something you can try to adjust.