Mini Normal 1983: Winter Wonderland [Endgame!]

[Katyusha]

im here. it is almost lunch. i will post then

looking forward to it then - please actually play the games you sign up for.

Also, I'm surprised you had a change of heart on the ucv wagon. The timing now that they're close to replacement seems as though you just wanted the wagon to muddle vca and waste time.

VOTE: buj

he was like 1 hour from getting replaced - the point of the wagon is to emphasize that he's going to die if he doesn't post and if he's just getting replaced then it's moot

he's not getting replaced so i'm still very eager to lynch him

[Katyusha]

@1358: how does that make Moz more town to you? It's an intentionally (since he ignored the first time I refuted it) bad meta case. It's not a case of wrong/misguided- it's made with the intent of being misleading.
It is very unlikely I will be posting a scumcase on you before deadline as a.) time issues, b.) stronger lynch preferences c.) i don't see myself dying, so there's no urgency.
If you'd like to make a case on me as requested though, that would be nice.

moz's gameplay in that game feels identical to this one was my point - i need to follow the conversation once more to see if it's a deliberate misrep myself

i've provided like preliminary thoughts on why i felt you were scum but i need to follow up with reading your scumgame in lycan's open

He has been online and posting in other games.

He has a past precedent of replacing out of games when they get too fast as town.

Don't provide excuses for him if they're not there - if he has an issue with the game length then he can voice that but he still has shown that he's reading along in his subsequent posts.

DYKDW is a big boy, I'm sure he can defend himself on his own. Especially considering his lynch is for more than just inactivity.

im here. it is almost lunch. i will post then

looking forward to it then - please actually play the games you sign up for.

Also, I'm surprised you had a change of heart on the ucv wagon. The timing now that they're close to replacement seems as though you just wanted the wagon to muddle vca and waste time.

VOTE: buj

he was like 1 hour from getting replaced - the point of the wagon is to emphasize that he's going to die if he doesn't post and if he's just getting replaced then it's moot

he's not getting replaced so i'm still very eager to lynch him

'the point of the wagon is to emphasize he's going to die if he doesn't post...'
'meta/general activity makes him likely to flip scum anyway.

can you pick one? These are mutually exclusive, and you denying the first when you said it wasn't a policy lynch.
Either you're happy to lynch him either way, or you aren't. You're saying conflicting things again.

why pick one when i can articulate how they dont conflict owo

the point of the wagon is to emphasize he's going to die if he doesn't post, we're picking him specifically because his general activity is scummy in comparison to other lurkers so prod him first

[Katyusha]

yes, he is not scummy enough to be hammered right now with caveats that this will change based on his posts and when it gets closer to deadline

also i ctrl-f'd just to make sure but the places where i said i was fine with a hammer i was generally playing along with a lolhammer in case ucv logged on and thought he was hammered

you mgiht as well not have an opinion on Kat, Hop. lmao

Eh, I mean there's no point posting a case at the moment since Kat isn't getting lynched today anyway.
Nobody's really commented on the inconsistencies I'm pointing out so they'd probably just skip high effort walls anyway.

people read my high effort walls so uh

this isnt really a good reason to not out a controversial read

[Katyusha]

VOTE: DeWay

Fine with me

Good decision

What changed from it being a placeholder?

UC continuing to ignore the game and Rem posting.

at this point though i'm fine with the hammer

in context so it's clear i was responding to a lolhammer from monkey

[Katyusha]

i dont think i'd ever night kill you which would mean you dying is a very obvious frame kill or a vig from intern so i dont think that's the case

[Katyusha]

at this point though i guess i should stop prodding it

[Katyusha]

if it actually gets to that point then im down to hammer

he says he will post during lunch or after it so let's let him

[Katyusha]

To specify, I do mean a vig kill or something similar, not a mafia shot. I think you suggested Intern shoot me though?

only because you're the slot other than dykdw that i think is most likely to flip scum right now

my preference is that he uses his reads and context to make the best shot

[Katyusha]

and if people dismiss this as a TvT?

[Katyusha]

and if people dismiss this as a TvT?

why should we dismiss it as a town v town

we shouldn't because I think hopkirk is scum, but a lot of people are townreading both of us

what's your take on it?

when ucv finally posts content or gets replaced
i'll be retired

what is supposed to mean?

that you've taken a very long time to produce content and done nothing so far but prodge and ask questions that dont really sort out alignment

[Katyusha]

ok moving on. can someone explain to me what these last few posts that HEM made mean. I read them, but i was a bit confused on what he was trying to get cross

this is just asking for clarification

your last question about hop/kat was decent but i dont even know if you've read or seen enough of the game to know why it's a good question - which leads me to believe you asked it to just clarify as well

if there's scumhunting then by all means explain to me what i'm missing

could you answer my last question from a while ago about how much of the game you've read btw?

[Katyusha]

the way i scum hunt, i don't need to read the game.


i jsut need to have time to scum hunt. which i do

ok, cool

what reads do you have so far then?

[Katyusha]

ok, that's a start

now to get other reads are you relying on questions from now or are you backtracking a bit? the game is jampacked with content for a 56 page D1 (usually it's just spam but this feels productive) so i cant see why familiarizing yourself with the basic events of the game cant hurt

[Katyusha]

dykdw im not very happy with where our conversation went

do you have more than just a townread on me? if you're town we really need you

[Katyusha]

sigh

fine with the lynch, vig i think goes to hopkirk regardless because i dont really like the way he's interacted around ucv and if he's town i need the reevaluation.

definitely have seen scum interact with partner lynches like this, and definitely can see scum interacting with mislynches like this. i dont think hop gets much cred out of this if it greens

{monkey, intern}
{sheep, n_m, moz, seph, rem}
{flubber, serg, bu} - null
{hopkirk, dykdw}

actually looking at this pile i want to see where rem is at again with intern likely being town now

[Katyusha]

did you miss intern claiming odd night vig which is sort of a bad claim for scum to make

i'm kop right

[Katyusha]

that was a really dumb time to claim especially considering you could hide your shot/see who jumps on the wagon but still

VOTE: dykdw

SKs are a thing you guys nothing about that claim is towny

if he's a SK he locked himself into a vig claim D1 which is usually -EV for them

the best play is to leash him or just let it resolve if consensus is this is a worthwhile train of thought

pedit: that too. sk is literally the most garbage role in all of mafia. full offense to anyone who likes them

also i think if he were mafia he'd claim even night

claim is more likely than not town

also explain how these posts dont follow to an intern townread

pedit: flubb hasn't caught up?

[Katyusha]

VOTE: Hopkirk

on-wagon kill makes it very likely that was a town-motivated lynch

probably one scum on it but let’s start here

[Katyusha]

VOTE: Monkey

Why him?

What do you think of Hopkirk and Seph?

[Katyusha]

Please don’t rvs?

You should probably iso people or something? At least see for yourself why people are being voted

For clarification moz was a Mafia kill and intern vigged Bu - why do you think scum picked moz?

pedit: same lol I even made an “i’m townread blujabber meme”

[Katyusha]

my issue rn is that i’m basically townreading everyone but hop for some reason or another

everything seems to point to him being scum so like I at least want to drive that wagon but there’s a blindspot somewhere and I need help trying to figure it out

[Katyusha]

Updated scumpool: Moz/Kat/Bu/Serg/Intern/UC

like I can’t look at this and think that he’s pushing on scum here ever

moz Bu intern and uc have all flipped town, I know i’m town, and i’m skeptical of a team that doesn’t at least tell serg what’s happening since rn he’s playing like lynchbait

maybe serg is getting bussed idfk but the way he handled the UCV wagon felt like he knew it was a ml

he long crossed the “he’s wrong town” horizon - his turn on me was really strangely timed and I don’t think town has that thought process ever

[Katyusha]

if i’m wrong i’m wrong but can the people who thought/think he’s town tell me why?

[Katyusha]

BuJaber

(3): Sergtacos, Flubbernugget, Hopkirk

DoYouKnowDeWay

(7): Not_Mafia,

Internecine

,

mozamis

, Katyusha, Sephiroth, humaneatingmonkey, sheepsaysmeep
Hopkirk (1):

BuJaber

humaneatingmonkey (1):

DoYouKnowDeWay

Not Voting (1): Rem

actually i guess the only real "off-wagon" kill they could really make is flubber and there's doubt around him

rem had intent, serg and hopkirk are terrible shots in any universe

im also starting to regret not pushing a serg shot :/

for the record a real vca is kind of pointless rn - i mostly did this to demonstrate why scum killing on the wagon makes it more likely they're off but honestly with the way it is it probably isnt indicative of anything

moz is still who i expected to die if not me though and he makes a lot of sense. hopkirk is still the right play today

[Katyusha]

so?

odd night vig/even night vig and a bujaber shot makes complete sense

if he's a sk he's still uninformed and i also refuse to believe that nsg considers putting an odd-night modifier on a serial killer OR that sk!Intern just happens to bs the right modifier to look correct in the setup

he's town. occam's razor this pls

[Katyusha]

same difference - he's not groupscum ever and he's almost definitely not a serial killer

[Katyusha]

why nitpick when the point is clear

[Katyusha]

gotcha

why seph over hopkirk?

[Katyusha]

honestly i dont have much of a reason to scumread him besides "probably the most likely scum on ucv" though

which is troubling. i think most people do hard resets here but im not ready to put the brain power into it yet

[Katyusha]

before i go off to bed

rem, can you talk to me about what you found town about hop D1 and how you feel now?

[Katyusha]

Aw sheep get better soon

I’m moving in today so I’m expecting this to be a slow day

will respond to Hop once i’m settled

[Katyusha]

Aw sheep get better soon

I’m moving in today so I’m expecting this to be a slow day

will respond to Hop once i’m settled

Absolutely no energy right now, will try after classes tom if time permits

[Katyusha]

seph why are you calling the UCV wagon bullshit if you voted on it

wanting the day to end isn’t really a good excuse here

[Katyusha]

VOTE: serg

I’m not going to act like I strongly townread this slot and I don’t mind bolstering monkey’s pressure

If/when serg posts content though can we not hammer until it’s discussed? UCV was kind of prematurely hammered and i’m not going to lament about him flipping town since the lynch was justified but still. If serg is town it’s MYLO already since Bu dying counts as a mislynch

[Katyusha]

rem needs to give a read list at her earliest convenience still fwiw

[Katyusha]

Sheep also feels significantly out of his scumrange from what I have seen

Like on an objective metric he’s not super townie but sheep feels a lot more obvscum and flag as scum

I think monkey and sheep are the only townreads I won’t hedge on

[Katyusha]

I mean

Good vote?

Sorry to see you go though, good luck in school

[Katyusha]

it still feels as though you didn’t actually think he was scummy, and i’m sure you’ve played the game long enough to know that info lynched are bs

like, why not push sheep? Or at least hesitate about giving scum!sheep his mislynch?

wanting the day to end is fine but I don’t see a town reason to prioritize day ending over a possible scum lynch

pedit: I’m thinking here

[Katyusha]

Maybe a reread is actually in order here

[Katyusha]

The best info to be gained is a scum flip, and sheep has partners if he’s scum

You’d gain way more information by going against the grain and seeing how people react, even if your push is unsuccessful

plus one of sheep’s partners might be lynchable (and as far as I can tell a theory scum!ucv is incompatible with a scum!sheep)

That’s just my philosophy. I don’t push townreads unless I’m gambitting

[Katyusha]

Can someone townreading n_m tell me why since a decent chunk of you seem to

I cant read him to save my life

Your mind should fill in the blanks of his thought process - he votes and prods at “the right things” as town

I read him like a trollier dunnstral

[Katyusha]

seph how is monkey blacklist worthy for his scumhunting inability if you think he’s scum - if he’s scum isn’t he playing a good game

I don’t understand your frustration from a town perspective nor do I see much reason to townread hop besides associatives with your scumreads (unless you liked his re-evaluation??)

like idk I can tell you’re actually pissed off and I don’t know where to start in parsing it

[Katyusha]

UNVOTE:

I’m going to do my hard reset when i’m home I think

[Katyusha]

oh monkey

Is there something besides activity that’s off about serg

When I think of asstaco I think incessant spam and obviously that’s not present here but like he’s not on summer break anymore so I Get That would be a reason he’s less posty

[Katyusha]

not much

this game’s got me stumped and I’m a lil worried about rl now because Econ looks like it’s going to be a lot of work and I’m now playing first tenor in my jazz band since our old one graduated last semester

Other than that things have been ok since I came back from my siteflake

pedit: do you want me to pull up games where I townread people for similar reasons now that my main is outted

[Katyusha]

Fwiw I still stand by the UCV lynch

pedit: on that note I really want the ppl who think sheep is scum to review his meta - I really don’t think he can put this much thought into a scum game

[Katyusha]

I’m kind of distracted that’s probably why - I probably put way more effort than I needed to into d1 and I kind of fucked everything up and idrk where to start

and uhm no it’s not really a formal thing it’s just a bunch of ppl meeting up in the uni game room but still I hate Pressure

pedit: dunno honestly

[Katyusha]

monkey I’m kind of thinking that fires just town here

pedit: have been in a setup with more power, whatever happens happens and the answers won’t be clear until massclaim tbh

[Katyusha]

Kind of want to know why Giga townreads more I think Iabou it, I have an idea but then i was like “no”

u feel like a real person to me right now

when you’re scum you don’t

I don’t know how to articulate it in non-touchy feely ways

[Katyusha]

I'm interested to see what a Katyusha wagon looks like.

VOTE: Katyusha

[Katyusha]

inb4 vt claim

Monkey consider my vote on your wagon bc seph kind of felt contradictory in his emotion just now (like I’m not saying it’s fake it just seems like the things he is complaining about seems more likely coming from scum unless I’m missing something) but I really want to do my hard reset first

like even if you have a guilty I need to see where all the pieces fall

I know I promised content but I’m feeling dead now that I’m finally at my dorm - my Wednesdays are usually free so I’ll make time for certain

pedit: bruh have u read your iso in that waltz game??? YiKeS

[Katyusha]

yeah but when u pushed content it was just so inhuman and ????????

i can see where u are coming from here so far

im gonna fart out a summary of game events for u since u asked and then sleep

[Katyusha]

alright firebrainer

i wrote this like script of the game's events in the dumbest way possible and i just got to like... when i started pushing hopkirk and just couldnt stop cringing im sorry im just going to do this normally

Spoiler: shitty summary from memory

ucv was wagonned early game for a variety of reasons that dont matter too much

flubber was wagonned for pushing ucv for posturing his thoughts about rvs without following them even though sheep pointed out that ucv genuinely believes in the thoughts so it's not really posturing anyway considering the way he went around it here is how he always does anyway

i forgot why seph was an initial wagon but he townned up later and i want to say that started when i did a skim of list mod mafia and felt his scum play was more involved earlier on while here he felt in the dark at some points?

monkey vs hop was kind of a thing for a while. most people initially sided with hop except for me but now i kind of feel like it's reversed (except i still tr monkey and sr hop). point against hop was how frequently he was answering questions with non-sequiturs and had an awkward tr on flubber when he was being wagonned (at least in the opinion of people scumreading him at the time)

monkey has been kind of getting on everyone but me's bad side at some point in the game - forgot most of the talking points against him but he doesn't seem to be a popular scumread anymore and i want to attribute that to myself as well considering i wrote like two essays about why i felt he was town

bujaber was also pushed a lot but he flipped town already so i dont know how relevant this is - he was kind of self-contradictory and sheepy i guess

then there was kind of a calm once people started easing up on monkey, which then evolved into the second ucv push

rem replaced in at this time and started pushing intern, but that quickly died once he claimed odd-night vig. most people liked the push though (rem compared how n_m and intern, two inactiveish slots, were prodding at the game to show that intern wasnt really gamesolving) and were persuaded.

ucv push #2 emphasized that he was avoiding the thread and posting elsewhere for basically the entire game after his 2 posts in rvs. i at least felt my poe was solid, some other people felt his content was legitimately scummy

mozamis is almost certainly the mafia kill here, his role most prominently was pushing townreads together and telling me and flubber to stop fighting. hopkirk was his top scumread. mostly a lowkey player, so scum either had a pr read on him, didn't want him to mediate, or like the direction the active posters are going in. could just be possible though they picked a well-townread person for the sake of it

hopkirk was one of the suggested vig targets over bu, not sure why intern picked bu over him but we do know that hopkirk wanted to push a case against me but he's backed down from that read by now. i still kind of want to know why people who have been here for a while think i could be scum honestly because my early game was probably the towniest i've been in a while.

tl;dr:

intern conftown odd-night vig
most people alive today in D1 were townread except for like hopkirk and monkey That One time so obviously Something is Wrong
this was kind of a shitty summary and i'd probably just iso whatever interactions from here seem interesting

would not shock me if i left key details out and fwiw that isnt deliberate

[Katyusha]

i really do need rem's reads tho i feel like thats the jumping point i need

[Katyusha]

Prodding Katyusha.

I'm here, sorry, swamped by classes but I'm 100% free tomorrow and will be reading now

[Katyusha]

seph what are you gaining from just being annoying to monkey

if he's wrong about you he's town, right?

in that case what do you think of fire and n_m

[Katyusha]

Also I'm starting to come around on HEM-scum. Inexplicable ultimatum that is extremely anti-town, doesnt want me to have a chance to reread in my own time, is scum reading me for responding to the UCV wagon in the exact same way that Mozamis did who, by the way, flipped cop. I don't see this persistence, vote parking and tunneling to be possible from a town mindset. Even piss poor town play doesn't explain this. Piss poor town would still be able to realize that my meta completely invalidates any argument that I'm scum here. I could've easily just lurked through the UCV wagon but instead I put myself out there and gave my opinion that he wasn't scum. I could've easily not posted anything while I was V/LA and continued to lurk while the game state remained unchanged and slow. But no, I went out of the way to unnecessarily post my opinion, and went out of my way to post when it was inconvenient and I had better shit to be doing at the meet and when I could've just been lurking.

Anyone who knows my scum game knows that I am far better at making up reasons to scum read someone than genuinely finding them as town. Were I scum here I would'nt need to reread because I could just choose a random player, look at their ISO, find a thing to push and vote. I am doing none of these things. If anyone respects Monkeys ultimatum they are an idiot. Everyone should notice that while Monkey has been trying to paint me as being non-contributive here, he hasnt done anything except vote park and say condescending things in like 6 pages. Remember that tomorrow.

nvm

did not see this i'm backreading

yeah uh

[Katyusha]

Mozamis was pro-UCV wagon and flipped vig? You mean bu right

also bu was strictly anti-ucv wagon, you literally voted on it. explain to me how you're the same as

either

bu or mozamis here

like i dont like monkey's play rn but that doesnt make him scum and you seem to be aware of this and yet you're calling him scum

[Katyusha]

like if monkey's scum his play here is obviously fine because he's influencing town into getting a mislynch if you're town?

[Katyusha]

rem still not posting is tilting me bc if the team is rem/seph/hop then they obviously cant do anything to stop this lynch and i need more info to read rem

[Katyusha]

The game suddenly stalling is also intriguing

[Katyusha]

fire's town
sheep's town
intern's town

hem is probably town
n_m is probably town

flubber/hop/seph/rem are leftovers

[Katyusha]

sheep is it flubber or rem who's town

VOTE: seph

i dont think his reaction to monkey makes sense as town here. like i get why he's frustrated and he would be as either alignment but "monkey is ass at this game" wouldnt be the argument here at all

[Katyusha]

L-1 for the record

[Katyusha]

More when I'm more lucid (like that reread, which i hope seph goes through if i'm wrong)

i need to look at hop again and follow up on meta (and also explain why his understanding of my read is... still bad?)

sorry, mafia's kind of hard when i'm in a depressive episode + school happens

[Katyusha]

sorry, mafia's kind of hard when i'm in a depressive episode + school happens

on the bright side like around monday or so i should be fine again

[Katyusha]

:/

[Katyusha]

i know this isnt my proudest game because i just feel really fucking unsure about everything but i dont know if this is actually deserved

plus self hammering when rem hasnt posted literally all day play is kind of shitty if you're town but i guess you dont care

[Katyusha]

If Sephiroth flips town, I'm going to bother sheep and Kat.

that's fine

[Katyusha]

i like actively cannot play in towns like this one d2 so

[Katyusha]

Sheep I thought his interactions with seph were town I guess

[Katyusha]

Kat, kill me this night.

okay

[Katyusha]

Seph, people aren’t just going to magically “scumhunt“ after you make the game a toxic cesspool and admit to gamethrowing. people have emotions and you’re actually being an asshole right now

And fuck off. Even if you don’t like my play I scumhunted my best D1. I’m sorry I didn’t get to stop the hammer from UCV but honestly fuck off with that meta argument because UCV lurks in general

You have no right to be arrogant if you make the game impossible to sort while Rem is still on v/la when I still wanted to talk to her

Is monkey immature? Sure. Is sheep’s pagetop grabbing annoying? Yes. But you’re doubly more so on both counts.

Please take your head out of your ass and realize that you aren’t infallible here

Last line applies to monkey too

[Katyusha]

No i’m actually crying irl thanks for asking Hopkirk!

[Katyusha]

Like I was annoyed that I felt shut down sod2 for thinking you and serg could be town and still wanting hop so I’m not praising monkey here but I just?? Don’t see what you think you’re accomplishing here at all

Pedit: sorry Hop I was going to today but you can kind of understand why this might sour my mood and thinking ability!

[Katyusha]

Like I knew this entire day phase I had a wrong read somewhere which is why I wanted to look at seph and voted there and since I didn’t think a frustrated town player would have such a contradictory thought process but I guess some people are just like that!!!

pedit: monkey can you actually stop

[Katyusha]

This could have been easily solved with double force replacements

[Katyusha]

Again I don’t disagree with monkey being in the wrong here but this should have been taken up with NSG

[Katyusha]

If Monkey was actually impacting you irl then, no, you have the right to take it up with the moderator

I should have stood up for myself and say my piece against monkey sure but??

Which is why I thought you were scum here??

I knew someone I townread had to be scum and I was the least confident about you too until fuckin. Now I guess

[Katyusha]

I’m on the verge of replacing out but now that this happened i’m kind of forced to stay so no one has to subject themselves to this

Pedit: if a mod warning happened i’m fairly sure this gets avoided entirely

pedit: I wasn’t thinking through, nor did I think the person talking about being protons actually self hammers

[Katyusha]

Yes! Because I’m 100% reading someone wrong and the person who is calling their top scumread shitty town is!!! Sort of fucking scummy!!!

pedit: replacing out was also an option!

[Katyusha]

He’s obviously a vt

[Katyusha]

Well that easily could have been cleared up with communication!!!

Like, there isn’t an excuse for anyone being ridiculously toxic and making the game unplayable

pedit: I didn’t give two shits about what monkey was doing because I thought he was town and when I read along the push I obviously misread the situation

[Katyusha]

Then you see why you’re equally culpable in this, good!

[Katyusha]

Who the fuck gives a shit about letting some troll online “win”?

[Katyusha]

That’s what I’d do here and have done in the past

Pedit: ok

[Katyusha]

I’m sorry but I am not in a mental state to reread and we’re past the horizon where it’s acceptable to replace out

[Katyusha]

I need rem to post like just minimally detailed reads on each living player

pedit: no lynch is a mechanically better move in 4-way

[Katyusha]

Like I don’t see why no-lynch + radio silence helps us right now

pedit: I mean yes screw both of them but what was wrong with fire’s jump?

[Katyusha]

How do we feel about massclaiming later into the day?

I need to make up for the lack of getting reads yesterday thanks to gamethrowing first imo and I think pushes on pr clears/claims could possibly be AI

[Katyusha]

Vig/Cop/Doctor in town and scum with a roleblocker is something I have definitely seen before

Agreed with monkey that massclaim is better here, we can analyze PR claims and save our no lynch for if we get to the point where it’s mostly vanilla.

Disagree tho that.... anything that happened d2 was remotely ok or optimal. I don’t see why forcing an ultimatum on someone while on vla is productive especially once it was clear emotions were coming in. I feel stupid for thinking it could be scum emotion and assuming a normal person replaces out but the right thing to do would have just been to let it go. Let bygones be bygones though, my blacklist can start filling up post game.

Ftr I’m refraining from giving reads until it’s clear we aren’t no lynching

[Katyusha]

Why do you want a no lynch for mostly vanilla?

Because at that point getting the info from the night kill is more reward than loss - it's impossible for there to be a pr that can get information or prevent a kill at that point.

[Katyusha]

btw if we agree to a massclaim, are we popcorning or doing an order?

if so i dont know who should determine the order

[Katyusha]

anyway im off to do my hw uwu

will try not to get lost or behind in this game again despite being sick

[Katyusha]

Not mafia is confirmed town

is this a claim?

[Katyusha]

you probably should have waited until massclaim but in that case i guess n_m determines the claim order then??

i would like a full claim at some point

[Katyusha]

would be floored if fire/n_m is s/s and i'm assuming town!fire has no reason to lie

[Katyusha]

Sephiroth (6): Not_Mafia, humaneatingmonkey, Internecine, Firebringer, Katyusha, Sephiroth

also that would mean from fire's pov this is either an all-town wagon or there's at least one scum in me/HEM

fire how plausible do you think either scenario is

I would honestly do that as scum

i am aware of that, but given the gamestate it's a bad call for you imo

Not Mafia
Humaneatingmonkey
Giga

Are all in my town group.

i guess that answers the above question, but in that case who are you looking at for scum first?

[Katyusha]

See, my initial issue with that was how adamantly Mozamis wanted me and flubber to stop fighting with each other - does a scum!Flubber kill a less active mozamis over me when I was suspecting him, more active, and more townread?

I dont really know if mozamis gave pr vibes, it was far from something on my mind but maybe people unfamiliar with him would think so??

[Katyusha]

Moz, Buj, Hop all feels upside down to me. Considering she doesn't scum read Hop and Flubb and Moz, I can't see why she townreads Buj. This is highly unusual to me and I want to know more.

it could be weird cos shes scum.
i mean, claims to have got up to p20, and yet didnt comment on any of the main events? town are naturally curious.
it's nothing definite, but a fos nontheless.
still, deal with her tomoorw.

actually this might be more pressing and is why i wanted to talk to rem yesterday anyway?

[Katyusha]

The mozamis kill should definitely be something we're analyzing. I don't think WIFOM kills are helpful at all to scum, especially in a monkey+me!town world where scum most likely tried to work with Seph to attack monkey's credibility D1

[Katyusha]

*sigh*
just gotta hope town can keep this together *looks at Kat and Flubber*
dont talk too much!
and yes scumfucks

if i remember correctly too moz's POE was

{rem, serg, hop, ucv/dykdw, bu} so either fire is fakeclaiming scum or moz is misreading someone

pedit: Fire if we're doing popcorn please just full-claim, it's not immediately obvious what you are and i can see multiple possibilities

[Katyusha]

That's what I suspected. Or gated gunsmith but I feel like that's what scum is more likely to fakeclaim

[Katyusha]

Flubber is up next to claim, he should pick someone to popcorn to.

N_M and Monkey should claim last - I buy Fire's claim and trust in my meta read here.

[Katyusha]

A lynch has been achieved!

VC 1 - FINAL

votes

BuJaber

(3):

Sergtacos

, Flubbernugget, Hopkirk

DoYouKnowDeWay

(7):

Not_Mafia

,

Internecine

,

mozamis

, Katyusha,

Sephiroth

, humaneatingmonkey, sheepsaysmeep

Hopkirk

(1):

BuJaber

humaneatingmonkey

(1):

DoYouKnowDeWay

Not Voting

(1): Rem

With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch

The day 1 deadline is in

: (expired on 2018-01-19 12:49:59)

Mod Notes

:

A lynch has been achieved!

VC 2 - FINAL

votes

Sephiroth

(6):

Not_Mafia

, humaneatingmonkey,

Internecine

,

Firebringer

, Katyusha,

Sephiroth

Hopkirk

(1): Flubbernugget

Flubbernugget

(1): Hopkirk

Not Voting

(2): sheepsaysmeep, Rem

With 10 alive it takes 6 to lynch

The day 2 deadline is in

: (expired on 2018-01-26 19:49:59)

Mod Notes

:

Remember that this is a game - heated discussion is allowed, but personal attacks are not.

Names colored in if we assume fire is town.

Dont really believe in VCA but all the lynch wagons feel highly concentrated with town and I really feel that's important to note.

[Katyusha]

like fmpov if monkey is town then seph was literally lynched entirely by town

which is believable but still

i think this makes hopkirk look worse if that's the case, he always felt as though he was in the sidelines the whole time and pushing things that are obviously not going through

probably will be time to meta him for real but econ hw lmfao

[Katyusha]

That’s fine, we shouldn’t focus on a single scum anymore considering it’s late game anyway.

By now we have enough flips we should be looking at associations between all the unflipped slots and their relations to the flipped.

[Katyusha]

Why can't sheep be scum with Hopkirk?

[Katyusha]

hopkirk, sheep, and who? rem?

thats my initial guess yeah

works with flubber!town too

[Katyusha]

I don't know who I want to lynch first though. Even if my guess is right I still want to hear my perspective in case I'm wrong.

{Me, Monkey, Hopkirk, Rem, Flubber, Sheep} is still a pretty large pool to work from even if we have a 50% chance of being right as a collective.

[Katyusha]

I think we should mass claim

why not?

I think we should mass claim

like it's pmuch dependent on why he wanted to massclaim

@SERG WHY YOU WANT MASSCLAIM

pedit he asked "why not"
it's likely serious tbh

Who wouldn't want a massclaim?

are people seriously taking my quotes seriously omg yall need to tone down a bit man. like its common sense that we shouldnt have a mass claim on d1, i just wanted to see some answers to my post lol jesus

Serg, what did you get out of your massclaim call in terms of reads?

i was hoping for some unique reactions but some been saying "no" which is what i wasn't looking for. Can't really analyze that so that didnt do any good. now just trying to catch up

I think this lends more credence to fire's claim btw, absolutely can see serg as a UB trying this and expecting different responses than people turning him down.

[Katyusha]

My only question is why didn't you back up Mozamis? How is the UB determined in the case of two possibilities?

[Katyusha]

OK, i'm pretty confident you're town then

Time he took to answer that was shorter than me googling the answer + that's also the correct way to resolve this. i thought it could also be random

good catch. is it a question we can ask the mod?

Yes but it's also on the mafiascum wiki. The mod must predetermine the order night kills are resolved.

pedit: That did confuse me though

[Katyusha]

If fire were scum fakeclaiming though, wouldn't he be more inclined to claim a different role considering that the order of the kills would make his claim less believable?

In that case claiming like 1-shot gunsmith and a no action from Serg is entirely believable to me and probably what scum!Fire would fakeclaim

pedit: Yeah, a direct answer would make it too easy. They resolve simultaneously technically but I guess the vig comes before? If that makes sense

[Katyusha]

If fire is scum then I'd still consider you in the lynch pool. More likely than not though yes you're town.

It's more mechanical than read-based now though.

[Katyusha]

Uhm

[Katyusha]

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... sal_Backup

"If the game has multiple killing roles with potential for multiple power role deaths, then the mod must resolve which killer strikes first."

And we know Bu was vigged because intern claimed so.

[Katyusha]

Lol??

OK i'm stupid hang on

[Katyusha]

Fire can you link me a town game where you decided to gambit like this?

And please explain what you were expecting to gain from this and when you planned on retracting.

[Katyusha]

Can we unvote? He's probably scum but I don't want to lose first day of MYLO

pedit: Thank you

[Katyusha]

thank god you got it

[Katyusha]

OK but if there's actually another PR then you could have lost us the game if you're town because they'd probably CC you.

So if you didn't plan on retracting today (as would be the case with baiting the nightkill) how did you expect to account for that?

Which also begs the question of have you done this before?

pedit: I dont think anyone wants a living cop in mylo?????? Even with a roleblocker

[Katyusha]

ugh fine i'll dig through EVERY SINGLE ONE OF YOUR GAMES ://///

including ur tulpa's

[Katyusha]

I've seen you fakeclaim but not in MYLO or LYLO before

pedit: ive always called him fire ass

[Katyusha]

as in research fire besides me or research my meta

[Katyusha]

Ok I don’t have the time to do this

Fire if u can link me just one game where u have done this off the top of ur head that would be appreciated

Otherwise I’m done for the (irl) day

[Katyusha]

Valid but annoying /:

[Katyusha]

Please don’t vote fire yet :/

Hop why is Rem amongst your strongest townreads if yesterday you were saying scum were likely in the sidelines during Seph’s lynch?

[Katyusha]

I really liked how Rem took stances on every significant issue when they entered the game. Showed a good thought process while doing it too.

Would she not try to do that as scum?

Also I don’t know if you realize this but after she pushed intern (who was town) she kind of died down - that in of itself isn’t ai but I’m hesitant to call that locktown

[Katyusha]

Her vla started d2 I’m talking about d1

[Katyusha]

gtmh fire/flubber/monkey/n_m town sheep/rem/Hop scum

which is mostly what I thought at day start except sheep and n_m reversed but I think his reaction to fire’s gambit was town

hop’s rem read kind of solidified this for me

sheep is where I’m least confident though still

[Katyusha]

N_m pulled off of fire though before I asked

He was thinking it through imo while I think scum sticks to their guns

[Katyusha]

If fire/n_m was a preplanned scum gambit wouldn’t they especially follow through with UB rules?

Also if you have any questions to be sure I’m not pocketing lmk

I have a class now so i’ll take a while to get back to you though

pedit: I mean that’s a good point for why fire might inno but I don’t have a reason to suspect you’re pocketing me and I don’t think your seph push ever comes from scum unless you’re a sociopath

[Katyusha]

Kat, I felt like we bonded last time we talked in the site chat (topic unrelated to the game, of course). If you're scum here, I might cry a little.

Having been there I feel but like




you feel pocketed because there isn’t a reason to scumread me and scum obviously know this and would probably out themselves with a push on me

[Katyusha]

N_m what are your reads anyway

Pedit: ok

[Katyusha]

i feel like with fire/sheep crossvoting we have to vote sheep first

or just hear from everyone

[Katyusha]

ok......

[Katyusha]

if you dont feel you have the game solved you probably shouldnt be voting in mylo

[Katyusha]

ok but if someone else joins the wagon against you then you can get quickhammered :/

like i have those votecounts and i can vca and i have a locktown and i also have two weeks of schoolwork to make up
can this game freeze for a few days or smth

just take it easy, the game wont move that quickly anymore because i need to hear from rem

[Katyusha]

if you dont have the game solved then fire can be town uwu

[Katyusha]

like can someone try to sell me on town!fire

why doesnt scum fire think about the consequences of his gambit

why does scum fire claim an inno and not a guilty

[Katyusha]

It’s like ur at prom and every boy wants to dance with u, isn’t it?

contrary to popular belief this is not something i experienced

as much as i loved my high school i skipped out on prom (fairly sure im the only one who did too )

this game is going to be like one of those math problems i fall asleep thinking about (im a nerd)

it's ok u cant be that bad firebringer is an accountant

speaking of which fire if i ever need it im going to ask u for help with my accounting homework

also explain to me why you believe n_m would claim a guilty as scum but you're keeping your vote on him?

[Katyusha]

Since nobody else cares about this game enough to read through it, I won't be either. Town deserves the loss whoever it is.

Bih I’m waiting on rem

She literally still has no content after d1 which isn’t acceptable

If I’m going to reread I need to have some thought about her

[Katyusha]

fuck this shit i'll just sheep kat if kat doesnt vote me

I’m not voting until I hear from rem

[Katyusha]

only thing hard confirmed is that rem/monkey/hopkirk isnt the team

rem can you stop dodging my question? i've wanted a very basic readlist from you since day fucking 2 and prodded you start of today before you even no lynched

[Katyusha]

i feel like i a jerk because im devoting way more time into team mafia than this

[Katyusha]

All combinations of three featuring Kat, Rem, Hopkirk, HEM, Flubb is out the window.

Has Flubb been online? I havent been paying attention to that at all

[Katyusha]

the game just feels dead in general and i want to just say "team mafia xd" but idk

[Katyusha]

i know this is classic lazy people speak but i'll actively play this game tomorrow unless Being Sick and Schoolwork brings me down too much

ie prioritizing Team Mafia less

[Katyusha]

Kat, weigh in?

overwhelmed

friday is my free day and i fucked up some organization things so now i have to do team mafia stuff again

im paying attention i just need to actually think about the insight i give

i lean hop in hop/flubb btw still, i was watching village in the woods and some of the things hopkirk claims he did as scumhunting normally here as town were completely absent there so i kind of question hop's assertion it fits in his meta (when it wasnt even about meta in the first place, just how people generally think anyway)

[Katyusha]

For a second I thought this was post game and got really scared LMFAO

[Katyusha]

Cease lmfaoooooooooooo

I know we’re waiting on rem but can we not spam

pedit: how about KAT

[Katyusha]

can we not spam

how else to play outed scum

That was at everyone else

[Katyusha]

Rem: Hop or Flubber or both, if not both which of fire/n_m or is monkey scum all along



Ty

[Katyusha]

Mostly the “it feels like you are [doing scummy thing that you have to stretch what the person is saying to apply”] while talking to them and not voting them thing

Your questioning felt more town

[Katyusha]

Ok rem is at the replacement mark, do we bother waiting or do we let NSG find one at night

[Katyusha]

Uh 6 hours from it nvm

[Katyusha]

Why do we need solid scum motivation at this point? You sound like you're pushing against it trying to look townie.
The issue is inconsistency.
Plus we get out of RVS like he wanted.

[Katyusha]

I was under the assumption that UCV rvs'd but then said we should try to get out of rvs as soon as possible which seems like a normal progression to me

though i guess that vote could have been serious - if it is UCV i'd actually like to hear what you think the scum motivation for that vote is

Why do we need solid scum motivation at this point? You sound like you're pushing against it trying to look townie.
The issue is inconsistency.
Plus we get out of RVS like he wanted.

What first made me consider scum!Hop this game was this post - specifically the second sentence.

Why is Hop shading me here? It was a weird line considering I was voting on the UCV wagon which meant that I was considering him as possible scum - obviously I'm not going to be pushing back against my own push, I would unvote if that were the case.

Since Hop seems like he's responding to my first sentence (UCV's progression seems normal) but is using context from the second sentence, the response feels like a non-sequitur and is ignoring the point being made. Obviously at this point I thought he could just be town misunderstanding me, but the consistency in how he continued to not see what I was talking about seems to me that there was some intention of pushing this point to an agenda, and backtracking yourself to be accountable to your mistakes would have hurt the push's potency. Obviously once it was clear that I wasn't getting lynched or scumread this game he backed off.

If he were just trying to sort me, I think he'd approach it in a more inquisitive manner. "You sound like you're pushing against it trying to look townie" is very different from "Why are you pushing against your own vote?". The latter, again, doesn't really make sense but it's at least clear in that case he's misunderstanding my intentions and can be cleared up easily.

---

I definitely agree with HEM that the Flubber read seemed out of place and white-knighty. I would think a town!Hopkirk would approach the read considering why Flubber was being pushed in the first place:

scumreads n_m for inaccurate meta and his UCV read is weird in light of the game’s context

Maybe Hop doesn't have the meta or context to disagree with the n_m read, which is fine, but if he felt he was town then Hop would have an explanation as to why Flubber wasn't considering sheep's meta or had a reason to disagree with sheep. "The wagon is bad" is also a perfectly fine reason to disagree with the Flubber scumreads, but as I pointed out the wagon composition at that time consisted of mostly townreads of Hop's so it's hard to give credibility to that reasoning.

The meta Hop gave is also kind of lazy. There's more to Flubber's entrance than voting onto a large wagon, and plenty of people do the same when they enter games. It's a very NAI thing to attribute to meta as well. I don't know how strong Hop's meta skills are but it still doesn't seem like a read I would use to defend against a Flubber wagon when there's more to the push to dismantle.

With a confident enough read to just write "Flubber is town.", town!Hop would probably try to explain his perspective better rather than just state it as he caught up.

---

I thought you'd be more interested in HEM town.

Something about this line also felt kind of manufactured to me. I don't really think it'd be surprising if he read HEM one way or the other and from Hop's posting it's clear he didn't intend to push on him as well, so townreading HEM there seems reasonable. Yet, why would Hop thinks this deserves special attention? I would think it's more likely that scum!Hop put HEM in his townreads so that he wouldn't look overly defensive and wanted to make that clear, and that I would assume that if town!Hop felt the interaction was TvT&T he wouldn't be surprised about me finding the read normal because HEM would seem clearly town to both of us.

I also question the read's genuineness considering Hop was happy to discard it once pressure came towards HEM's way. I think that, besides basically everything Bu has pushed, this is definitely one of the more opportunistic changes in reads.

I think this and the Flubber townread are both weak points in his reads that show that they're disingenuous. Hop's townread of Flubber should have further addressed the points being given better, and his HEM read seems to reflect more on the gamestate than what someone in Hopkirk's shoes would actually feel.

---

I think without going in depth about the argument that was had earlier, these are the most important points that lead me to feeling confident about scum!Hop.

Essentially, we can see that he's reading the thread from a different perspective that isn't inquisitive, provided a poor defense for Flubber when he was first being wagonned, and has reads that seem unnatural.

Kat, my current understanding of your hopkirk scumread is a whiteknight of me and his egregious misunderstandings. I think both points are kinda blah.

If explaining why they're scum motivated better doesn't help clear that up or make the points better, then could you give your reasoning for listing him as your 3rd scumread?

After a short break I'm going to break down why HEM is town.

[Katyusha]

This is how we got into the meta conversation

[Katyusha]

Sheep you’re at 420 posts btw

[Katyusha]

I mean yeah which is why I don’t really buy the argument that that’s how you typically scumhunt

Pedit: if you thought I were scummy why would it matter to keep up the rvs wagon?

[Katyusha]

You sound like you're pushing against it trying to look townie.

Is this not a scumread?

[Katyusha]

But like..........

why is town doing something for the sole purpose of trying to look town? it just felt like you were plastering motive onto me to make me look like I was doing something scummy that I wasn't

I realize at this point the conversation will just harp on about this circularly so like I want to revisit other things after either we talk to rem or we lynch sheep though.

[Katyusha]

rem is at replacement range, havent read anything else but thats good to know :/

[Katyusha]

shitty

being sick basically lost me a day and i dont like catching up for this semester. like i like my classes in theory but some of them are like entirely new to me so i dont really have a foundation in anything (accounting, econ i guess isnt new from reading marx so it's easier but it's still a challenging class in general)

im feeling better at least but i have to figure out how im catching up

[Katyusha]

i know you dont take me seriously but it was actually a good introduction lmfao

[Katyusha]

i mean

of course you would say that lmfao

[Katyusha]

Hi Mathdino!

I’ve been waiting for content from your slot for quite a bit so I’m glad that’s actually getting fulfilled. So far I’m pretty confident from Poe it’s a scumslot

Sheep already claimed scum and after D2 this game has basically been a dumpsterfire otherwise

Regardless of your alignment though I’m probably going to start playing now. uwu

[Katyusha]

Katy/Monkey is clear btw

[Katyusha]

promising entrance

[Katyusha]

The crappy thing is I know asking for fire/n_m to unvite will fall on deaf ears but if u could....

pedit: well now that your slot is town let’s talk

[Katyusha]

We don’t know. It’s based on an encryptor so the answer is “maybe”.

I’m in favor of finding the scumteam which is what has been going on: consensus is it’s you, sheep, and one of hopkirk and flubber

[Katyusha]

You’d have to explain the scum motive of Fire’s fakeclaim or n_m’s reaction to it

Mostly because that solidified them both being town to me

Pedit: that would help too but I don’t know if i’m townreading it :/

pedit: let us know then

[Katyusha]

Uh we kept him alive to get your slot to produce content...?

Unless you mean it’s why scum are keeping him alive

pedit: ^

[Katyusha]

You know when you're about to leave a party and then you don't, then you get trapped in an incredibly long-winded and pointless conversation with another guest and spend the whole time wishing you'd just left when you had the chance. This is that moment.

Some of us like gamesolving in nontoxic gamestates

I’ve needed this D2 and I’m going to listen with eager ears

Don’t post unless you have something useful to say

Ty

[Katyusha]

No, we just waited but I’ve been prodding her basically since D2 for content

[Katyusha]

Also no matter what we’re lynching sheep eod unless we confirm someone else as scum

[Katyusha]

We’re confirmed not partners because we didnt hammer you

Other than that we can still be scum. I don’t have the exact combinations on the top of my head though

[Katyusha]

So like if you still scumread me i’m all ears to that as well

[Katyusha]

Fire can you humor him anyway for me

pedit: I think you being town is more likely if that helps?

[Katyusha]

Town Mathdino doesn't pass up the opportunity for a good old fashioned pissing contest

Considering you instigated him as your own scum partner I’m going to go ahead and call this bullshit meta lol

Genius play btw

[Katyusha]

I think I'm gonna be more receptive to N_M being scum if I'm proven that Flubb and Hopkirk aren't both scum.

Probably same but that also means we lose the game as soon as they log on together

[Katyusha]

well





fingers crossed it’s not actually flubber and hop

pedit cEAsE LMFAO

[Katyusha]

actually that reminds me i dont think we ever finished the massclaim

should we bother...? I would assume yes in which case i'll try to gather everyone's claims

[Katyusha]

Katyusha
sheepsaysmeep - some flavor of scum
Mathdino

Rem Schism

- VT
Hopkirk
Not_Mafia
Flubbernugget - VT
humaneatingmonkey
Firebringer Sergtacos

pedit: I dont think we ever were forcing you to

pedit: im... thinking. probably dont though since i think theres almost no chance you're scum but still i dont know if thats mechanically valid to do

[Katyusha]

missed hop's claim, that's

Katy - Unclaimed
Math - VT
Hop - VT
N_M - Unclaimed
Flubber - VT
Fire - Unclaimed, double checking to see if he claimed VT but he didnt
Monkey - Unclaimed

if we're doing a massclaim i believe hop has popcorn but math claimed after so i think the right thing to do is to treat it like math has popcorn

also math:

Can we seriously get a force replace on Rem?
Like this is ridiculous.

Even if she is scum trying to tactical lurk this is beyond acceptable

i forgot this post but this is sort of a thing

[Katyusha]

thats if we choose to massclaim

i dont really think it's a good idea anymore since we know who we're lynching but if they kill in the unclaimeds then that could be Bad^tm

[Katyusha]

i don't contrary to popular opinion and wouldn't mind!

and since those players are sheep fire and n_m it doesnt matter since you're not trying to convince them today

also does this constitute as a n_m tryhard game:
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=74417

he was town and it's why im skeptical of that meta because i used to kind of think the same

[Katyusha]

Assuming that's mozamis/Inter.

yup

pedit: wow...... that was a really townie post......... oof idk guys

[Katyusha]

Agree and already made that conclusion.

Also points to Flubb town more so because he wanted Flubb and me to stop fighting, so I figured scum would see him as a mediator when I usually am the mediator/don't pick fights against people lmfao

[Katyusha]

Kat, we mindmeld right? Are we looking for the same thing here?

pretty sure

[Katyusha]

the sad thing is if intern had vigged hop the game is probably laughably easy

pedit: so why doesn't scum shoot me, the person leading the scumreads on hopkirk? they both were townreading sheep as well

Kat, we mindmeld right? Are we looking for the same thing here?

pretty sure

tell me if u done cuz im done

i still want more from md so maybe not...?

[Katyusha]

actually i guess flubber!town D1 and intern being a vig is why nvm

[Katyusha]

can you stop scumhunting now
it's annoying

nice townpost

sheep is

town

[Katyusha]

so basically the team is going to be either sheep/hop/md or sheep/hop/n_m

i feel less stupid coming into daystart thinking n_m was scum lmao

[Katyusha]

I was strong townreading sheep though, he was the widely townread scum all game and him scumclaiming is really fucking weird because I was honestly planning on lynching him last.

Hop has always been my top scumread, I've been widely townread all game and I was only a non-factor D2 because I can't stand toxicity in gamestates.

pedit: exactly. sheep is just obvtown here tbh

[Katyusha]

well ok

if monkey is scum then i guess he is and there was kind of a push versus him by flubb/seph/hop that I pushed hard against alone but sheep trying to act neutral around it makes me think it's not monkey ever

pedit: yeah i guess but moz and intern would have done the same. it's weird to me

[Katyusha]

i dont think you cave like that when math is basically confscum from ypov

[Katyusha]

Kat, since I'm done, it's imperative to tell you that Mathdino is scum here. He lied at the get-go. He said he guessed Hopkirk/Rem/Katy at daystart when his slot, Schism, didn't even post. So, I'm good to lynch Sheep, Mathdino, Hopkirk in any order.

uhm

i think you misread what he said