Open 706: C9++

[Jodaxq]

Hello everyone.

[Jodaxq]

VOTE: Jodaxq

[Jodaxq]

VOTE: Jodaxq

Have you never been scum or am I missing a game somewhere?

Not on this site

[Jodaxq]

It's a fantasy football forum. I was introduced to mafia by some friends that I'm in a league with.

[Jodaxq]

Jodaxq, why the self vote in RVS?

Totally random

[Jodaxq]

Jodaxq, why the self vote in RVS?

No information for later.

VOTE: Jodaxq

So good to see you again Chip

[Jodaxq]

VOTE: Jodaxq

For not wanting to vote anyone else and calling it random.

Your logic is backwards. If you're unwilling to vote yourself then the vote is not truly random

[Jodaxq]

Jodaxq, why the self vote in RVS?

No information for later.

VOTE: Jodaxq

So good to see you again Chip

Do I detect a subtle note of sarcasm in your tone?

Not at all

[Jodaxq]

True randomness means that everything has an equal chance of being chosen. If people disclude themselves while making an RVS vote, their vote was not truly random.

[Jodaxq]

I know what random means.

I think you voted yourself to avoid offending anyone else and called it random to eliminate any responsibility in voting yourself.

How did you randomly pick yourself? Eenie meenie miney mo? 13 sided dice?

I flipped a coin and it came up odds.

[Jodaxq]

I know what random means.

I think you voted yourself to avoid offending anyone else and called it random to eliminate any responsibility in voting yourself.

How did you randomly pick yourself? Eenie meenie miney mo? 13 sided dice?

I flipped a coin and it came up odds.

Right.

Ok....I good with my vote where it is.

My vote's in the same place so I agree it's a good one.

[Jodaxq]

True randomness means that everything has an equal chance of being chosen. If people disclude themselves while making an RVS vote, their vote was not truly random.

Unless you went to Random.org and posted the results there was nothing random about this vote.
VOTE: Jodaxq
This post really rubs me the wrong way

I told you how I did it.

[Jodaxq]

Votecount 1.5 #ReadTheRules

Once upon a time, I was in a game....it was some sort of jungle oligarchy or republic...I don't remember at this point. An user just registered on this site and started stalking all my games, especially this jungle one. He got us both kicked out of the game, ruining the experience for me. This just proves that reading the rules is important. So I ask that all of you take the time to carefully read the rules...thank you. If anyone can figure out where the rules were broken, I will allow them to make a "bah" post when they die. (TBH, I don't care about this infraction...it isn't a big deal. This was just a good opportunity for a story.)

Votes

Jodaxq: (3) --- Jodaxq, havingfitz, Elmo TeH Azn
Elmo Teh Azn: (2) --- cytheflyguy, Sleepless Assassin
Sleepless Assassin: (2) --- Voyc, Schism
Almost Chara: (1) --- northsidegal,
xXTonereaderXx: (1) --- davesaz
northsidegal: (1) --- Assemblerotws

Not Voting

: xXTonereaderXx, Almost Chara, Chip Butty

(expired on 2018-01-01 22:49:29) until deadline

Chip Butty did not put my username in his unvote.

And we have a winner! You now have the right to make a bah post once you are dead

[Jodaxq]

I'm not sure I've been in a situation quite like this before.

Jodaxq: can you expand on your method? Were multiple coin flips involved?

What situation?

Why is the method I used important?

[Jodaxq]

In the games I have played, I have seen different viewpoints on RVS. Some are totally against it. Some selfvote to get the conversation moving. And some lurk through it all together. I just go with the flow....Because without RVS, there would be no game. No matter what I do, I still end up lynched however. I have never made it to lylo in a game that was not a micro. I wish you all good luck. Surpass my expectations. Do what I never could!

Hmmmmm interesting

[Jodaxq]

I don't think Joda's actions are AI. People are salty and catty all the time, regardless of alignment.

Also feel the same way about North. Wow, they did something so obviously wrong! They must be scum! They're not pushing for someone as scum without anything to back it up. That should be seen as suspicious, not this.

Y'all. Being less than 100% cooperative =/= being scum. I mean yeah over time that can be a different story, but by page 3 I wouldn't think much of it.

Good reads

[Jodaxq]

Player List

Almost Chara
xXTonereaderXx
davesaz
Jodaxq
cytheflyguy
Schism
Voyc
northsidegal
havingfitz
Assemblerotws
Elmo TeH AzN
Chip Butty
Sleepless Assassin

davesaz
Jodaxq
xXTonereaderXx
cytheflyguy
Schism

Voyc
northsidegal
havingfitz

Assemblerotws
Elmo TeH AzN

Chip Butty
Sleepless Assassin

that's all from me for now. i'll be back later. probably!
~Chara

Looks like sheep

[Jodaxq]

I like my Jodaxq vote but I'd be down for a D1 xtoner pl.

P.edit. @NSG, I'm convinced as I can be without esp.

If you don't like the wagon what about Chip Butty leaving it is weird?

what do you like about your vote?

[Jodaxq]

Player List

Almost Chara
xXTonereaderXx
davesaz
Jodaxq
cytheflyguy
Schism
Voyc
northsidegal
havingfitz
Assemblerotws
Elmo TeH AzN
Chip Butty
Sleepless Assassin

Player List

Almost Chara
xXTonereaderXx
davesaz
cytheflyguy
northsidegal
Voyc
Schism
Jodaxq
Elmo TeH AzN
Chip Butty
Assemblerotws
havingfitz
Sleepless Assassin

Okay. Why?

[Jodaxq]

I can't believe I have had to intervene this early....@xXTonereaderXX...you do not have a post restriction...nobody in this game does. I am going to have to ask you to stop trolling. Please play with behavior that is conducive to the game.

i'm against this, for what it's worth. there's nothing necesasrily anti-wincon or otherwise against the rules about what she's doing, from what i can see.

I'm against this too. I'll just be sure never to get into a game with him/her/it/them again.

[Jodaxq]

UNVOTE: Jodaxq
VOTE: Sleepless Assassin

[Jodaxq]

I'd like to point out that my self-vote was clearly not useless

[Jodaxq]

Votecount 1.5 #ReadTheRules

Once upon a time, I was in a game....it was some sort of jungle oligarchy or republic...I don't remember at this point. An user just registered on this site and started stalking all my games, especially this jungle one. He got us both kicked out of the game, ruining the experience for me. This just proves that reading the rules is important. So I ask that all of you take the time to carefully read the rules...thank you. If anyone can figure out where the rules were broken, I will allow them to make a "bah" post when they die. (TBH, I don't care about this infraction...it isn't a big deal. This was just a good opportunity for a story.)

Votes

Jodaxq: (3) --- Jodaxq, havingfitz, Elmo TeH Azn
Elmo Teh Azn: (2) --- cytheflyguy, Sleepless Assassin
Sleepless Assassin: (2) --- Voyc, Schism
Almost Chara: (1) --- northsidegal,
xXTonereaderXx: (1) --- davesaz
northsidegal: (1) --- Assemblerotws

Not Voting

: xXTonereaderXx, Almost Chara, Chip Butty

(expired on 2018-01-01 22:49:29) until deadline

Chip Butty did not put my username in his unvote.

And we have a winner! You now have the right to make a bah post once you are dead

Yeah, replace me. If you can understand it, deal with it. Also, if olayers have a problem with Tone, they cab pl him.

Lol you can't be serious

[Jodaxq]

wtf is #120? Is that scum?

I think it's just typical Chip Butty to complain and replace out whenever he doesn't get his way and it's NAI. In the last game I played with him, we got into an argument. He kept calling me too "thin-skinned" to play this game and then proceeded to replace out because I was irking him too much. Lol. He was doctor.

[Jodaxq]

nice santa hat there ms tonereader!

xXTonereaderXx....would you just play the fcuking game. Ffs....smh.

what gives you the impression that she isn't? she's contributed more than i have, at this point.


by the way, i think cy is town. he was incredibly awkward in rvs the last game i saw him in – i like his observations and his

tone

so far.

I'm awkward in general but thank you! Which game was that btw?

Mini Normal 1964 - Hell is 56k Dialup. I was in the same game

[Jodaxq]

If chip was serious the note to mod needs to be

bolded

. If not serious then I leave the analysis of that to others who have seen it.

Jodaxq, is there anyone remaining who hasn't commented on your self vote / random thing? I'd like to go deeper there but don't want to disturb it if you're waiting for something.

Pedit: the comment was more about the naked vote than the Elmo stuff.

No I think I've seen something from everyone. What did you want to explore?

[Jodaxq]

If chip was serious the note to mod needs to be

bolded

. If not serious then I leave the analysis of that to others who have seen it.

Jodaxq, is there anyone remaining who hasn't commented on your self vote / random thing? I'd like to go deeper there but don't want to disturb it if you're waiting for something.

Pedit: the comment was more about the naked vote than the Elmo stuff.

No I think I've seen something from everyone. What did you want to explore?

It looks like an obvious reaction test to me. Which means you should be doing something about the reactions.
I plan to do the same but have been distracted by a new pack being put up on the minecraft server.

I think Sleepless Assassin had the worst reaction. His post of "have you never been scum or am I missing a game?" kind of implies that he knows I'm not scum in this game. I also don't like how someone scum read him for being a try hard, he responded with "yeah I get that a lot," and then proceeded to disappear, only saying anything when he was asked a question directly. My vote is on him currently, but it's not parked there.
I don't like havingfitz's reaction either. The reasoning behind the self vote and then the bs reason (yes I know I can't flip a coin to randomize 13 players and yes I know a coin cannot come up odds) is to see if anyone will try to push for the easy lynch of someone who did something that obviously stood out. The fact that Fitz tried to rationalize a scum motivation for it (avoiding offending anyone) and is still trying to get some traction on it looks scummy.
Elmo's reaction seemed a little more like genuine confusion, but she had a similar reaction to Fitz.
I think Chip's response was town as he voted me to kind of get it on the joke and then unvoted when he had an idea of what was going on.
I'm unsure on Schism. I want to say that a scum who realized what was going on would react in the way s/he did.
Almost Chara was clearly scummy as hell.
Everyone else's reactions or lack thereof I would say are NAI.

[Jodaxq]

The only way I see a town read of Jodax is because of the vote to get reactions. Also notice how everyone who has posted a list is roughly the same?

There's really only been 2 reads lists posted. Maybe they're right though

[Jodaxq]

I'm not sure what to make of Jodaxq saying the IC is SAF...

Total misrep here. I said scummy as hell.

[Jodaxq]

wtf is #120? Is that scum?

I think it's just typical Chip Butty to complain and replace out whenever he doesn't get his way and it's NAI. In the last game I played with him, we got into an argument. He kept calling me too "thin-skinned" to play this game and then proceeded to replace out because I was irking him too much. Lol. He was doctor.

Actually that is a total misrep. I have only ever replaced out of one game, and I gave the reasons in my post game comments, ie mainly RL stuff. I know it is hard to believe but I've encountered dozens of players who are more annoying than you were there. Anyway, you seemed to have dropped your bad habits, which included constant walling and a pretentious stuffy prose style, so well done, I guess.

Also the fact that you remember that 'thin-skinned' comment and brought it up here kind of proves the point.

Lol! The irony!

[Jodaxq]

VOTE: xXTonereaderXx
This is not a gimmick I like, and it's early enough in the game to express that dislike in the traditional way.
I do

not

approve a policy wagon here.

In other news Jodaxq plays with fire, will she get burned?

He's useless, but not scum. Find someone else.

davesaz
Jodaxq
xXTonereaderXx
cytheflyguy
Schism

Voyc
northsidegal
havingfitz

Assemblerotws
Elmo TeH AzN

Chip Butty
Sleepless Assassin

I love this read list and I hope your other head agrees. Fitz goes up and Assemble Down IMO.

@ToneReader

Fuck you, Fuck this alt, and Fuck the fact that you are town.

Fucking Useless

. He voted Assassin, who is mafia. I stand Corrected.

Player List

Almost Chara
xXTonereaderXx
davesaz
Jodaxq
cytheflyguy
Schism
Voyc
northsidegal
havingfitz
Assemblerotws
Elmo TeH AzN
Chip Butty
Sleepless Assassin

davesaz
Jodaxq
xXTonereaderXx
cytheflyguy
Schism

Voyc
northsidegal
havingfitz

Assemblerotws
Elmo TeH AzN

Chip Butty
Sleepless Assassin

that's all from me for now. i'll be back later. probably!
~Chara

Looks like sheep

This. Joda, unvote yourself and got on Scum.

I love this read list and I hope your other head agrees. Fitz goes up and Assemble Down IMO.

why are you scumreading Chip Butty, Sleepless, and assemble?
~Chara

Chip slight/null.

Sleepless voting someone who voted IC and sounded too serious for an RVS Vote.

Assemble shitty Opening Vote.

In the first quote you recommend changes to Chara's list but are content to leave me in the scum rank. Yet a bit later you have me as null to slight scum. Why?

This is a good catch. Schism worries me a little bit. His posts have a towny feel which gives me pause, but the confidence displayed early in his reads alarms me. The fact that he's showed some inconsistencies alarms me more.

[Jodaxq]

I thought people were really annoyed at Tonereader so I told him to stop. Turns out they weren't so I took it back.

And yes mod…it is annoying the shit out of some people [at least one for sure]).

Don't think I have ever seen havingfitz post a wall. Even a small one.

I post walls quite often when catching up from a weekend v/la or a span of pages with a lot of items I feel deserve comment.

His reads, however, are shit

What reads would you be referring to?

i'm asking how strong is your belief that she's scum.

7 out of 10. 5 being null and 10 being confirmed somehow.

There's some weird inconsistencies in your read on me. You say you're as convinced as you could be without actual confirmation, but then rate your belief as a 7/10?

[Jodaxq]

Excluding IC and Myself:

Dave
Tone
Cy
Fitz
Voyc
Joda
------------------- Lynch Line
North (V/LA, probably safe for D1)
Chip
Elmo
Assemble
Assassin

This is an interesting list. You seem very very confident in ToneReader being town, but yet Dave, who you haven't mentioned at all, is at the top of your town reads. Why? What have you liked about VoyC?

[Jodaxq]

@Sleepless, you did quote my self-vote so it seemed logical that your comment would be mostly a reflection of that. I have entered all my games the exact same way. I'm not that experienced; I've only played six games outside of this forum.
I agree with your comment on Elmo. Why does the site meta have anything to do with anything in this spot?

[Jodaxq]

In Regards to “Confidence:

” Id argue that hesitence on reads isnt good if you dont have a reason.

This sounds backwards somehow. Can you restate that in terms of what's good?

I believe his statement is "I'd argue that hesitancy on reads is not good if you do not have a reason to be hesitant." Or, flipped around, "Confidence on reads is good if you have reason to be confident."

[Jodaxq]

Apologies

[Jodaxq]

@havingfitz

My talking about my self-vote being totally random and saying I flipped a coin was bs but there was a purpose. It was meant to generate content (which it did) and I wanted to see if anyone wanted to try and go for that low hanging fruit of a read, which you did. Flip a coin and coming up odds doesn't make any sense and I feel like it should have been clear to people that it wasn't serious.
When I say I enter all the games the exact same way, it has to do with me making a "hello everyone" post. Every game I've ever played I've done this.

[Jodaxq]

actually...

@everyone, in your very next post give one person you think is scum and one person you think is town, and reasons for both.

I think havingfitz is scum. Like you've said I really don't like how confident he was in me being scum but then also wavering on such confidence when confronted. I don't like how he's continuing to try and push for this and in his last reads post his two main scum reads were me (almost solely for my RVS vote which I've explained and most everyone else got) and ToneReader for reporting the mod? He admitted he was skimming past any of her posts but yet he scum reads her? These are clearly just manufactured and fake reads that really don't have anything to do with the game. He made a long post to look really effortful and townie but as I've pointed out it just feels fake.

Speaking of which
UNVOTE: Sleepless Assassin
VOTE: havingfitz

One person I think is town is NSG. The post I'm quoting feels like genuinely wanting to create dialogue and search for information. I also feel like she's been asking good questions and trying to move the game along.

[Jodaxq]

I could go Assemble as well I think. I agree with dave about 222 feeling pretty scummy.

[Jodaxq]

It's kind of hard to get any reads this game (and yes I know I am a part of that). I'm pretty null on Voyc, Elmo, and Chip. I think NSG is town and probably ToneReader and Schism also. Dave I'm pretty unsure about. I scum read Sleepless early so I may be biased from that, but I lean scum. I lean town with Cy for the same reasons.

[Jodaxq]

Jodax.

I do not believe you.

To infer you were gambiting to catch scum by decribing your self-vote as totally random (a lie), and then making up some method of coming to that random determination (a lie) was your plan all along is absurd.

How does telling lies help find scum amongst the people who don't believe the shit you are feeding them?

What's more dishonest? Telling lies to people or objecting to actually being lied to? Which by not believing your self-vote was totally random and your coin flip method was legit...is exactly what the people who called you on it were doing (i.e. objecting to your lies).

In your warped train of thought do you think scum should look to take advantage of liars while good town folk should just let lies slide?

I'm sorry but I do not work that way.

To re-iterate for clarity...I do not care about your self-vote. I've seen dozens of them and I do not recall ever voting anyone for it. People do it. What you did though was different in that you tried to play it off as totally random (bs) and went the added step of providing your randomizing technique (more bs). lie + lie = suspicion + vote. It's not difficult to see.

And you and NSG and anyone else falling over themselves about my reaction or confidence level is ridiculous. Trying to quantify a gut feeling that someone is scum based on a lie to a number or whatever is stupid. I think you're lying scum. How much? I don't fcuking know. I'm not a 100% sure but I know for a fact the odds of you being scum are higher then they are for me (i.e. > 0%). I like asparagus. How much do I like asparagus? 7 out of 10? 83%? Does that help you? Does it equate to how you think I should asparagus? Is my asparagus scale different then yours? Who the fcuk cares. I think I like it so that's good enough. And it's more than just above not liking it. I like it a lot. ffs.

As for your entering games the same way every time comment...what the hell does that have to do with anything? How does you entering every game with "Hello everybody" matter at all to what we are discussing? Did someone vote you for saying Hello everybody? Is that AI for you? WTF cares? It's also no true (mini 1964)...but as I said...who cares? You said you entered every game the same way when discussing your self-vote with Sleepless. Why would we care about you entering games with Hello Everyone? More inconsistencies and nonsense on your part.

And for anyone who is scum reading me for reacting the way I do...what is wrong with the way I am reacting? Which I would argue is normal for me. I see inconsistencies or BS and I work with what is before me. To be scum read for looking for scum is bass ackwards.

Also...Jodax...wrt Tone. Nowhere have I said I scum read Tone. I'm not sure what their alignment is. All I know is I do not like the trolling crapass way they are playing this game (as several others have expressed as well) and my willingness to vote them at this time is simply to get them out of this game. I think they are anti-town regardless of their alignment.

Hahaha wtf is this post?

I really don't know how to explain it to you if you haven't already gotten it. I said I flipped a coin and it came up odds. How can that ever be taken to be like I was trying to be seriously deceptive?

And my first comment about my hello everyone post was directed at Sleepless. I said I scum read him for his "so you've never been scum" post and he said that his comment was actually in response to my opening post. I was just saying I always do that.

I really don't find ToneReader to be anti-town. She at least can't be more anti-town than someone who just shitposts a lot.

[Jodaxq]

Jodax.

I do not believe you.

To infer you were gambiting to catch scum by decribing your self-vote as totally random (a lie), and then making up some method of coming to that random determination (a lie) was your plan all along is absurd.

How does telling lies help find scum amongst the people who don't believe the shit you are feeding them?

What's more dishonest? Telling lies to people or objecting to actually being lied to? Which by not believing your self-vote was totally random and your coin flip method was legit...is exactly what the people who called you on it were doing (i.e. objecting to your lies).

In your warped train of thought do you think scum should look to take advantage of liars while good town folk should just let lies slide?

I'm sorry but I do not work that way.

To re-iterate for clarity...I do not care about your self-vote. I've seen dozens of them and I do not recall ever voting anyone for it. People do it. What you did though was different in that you tried to play it off as totally random (bs) and went the added step of providing your randomizing technique (more bs). lie + lie = suspicion + vote. It's not difficult to see.

And you and NSG and anyone else falling over themselves about my reaction or confidence level is ridiculous. Trying to quantify a gut feeling that someone is scum based on a lie to a number or whatever is stupid. I think you're lying scum. How much? I don't fcuking know. I'm not a 100% sure but I know for a fact the odds of you being scum are higher then they are for me (i.e. > 0%). I like asparagus. How much do I like asparagus? 7 out of 10? 83%? Does that help you? Does it equate to how you think I should asparagus? Is my asparagus scale different then yours? Who the fcuk cares. I think I like it so that's good enough. And it's more than just above not liking it. I like it a lot. ffs.

As for your entering games the same way every time comment...what the hell does that have to do with anything? How does you entering every game with "Hello everybody" matter at all to what we are discussing? Did someone vote you for saying Hello everybody? Is that AI for you? WTF cares? It's also no true (mini 1964)...but as I said...who cares? You said you entered every game the same way when discussing your self-vote with Sleepless. Why would we care about you entering games with Hello Everyone? More inconsistencies and nonsense on your part.

And for anyone who is scum reading me for reacting the way I do...what is wrong with the way I am reacting? Which I would argue is normal for me. I see inconsistencies or BS and I work with what is before me. To be scum read for looking for scum is bass ackwards.

Also...Jodax...wrt Tone. Nowhere have I said I scum read Tone. I'm not sure what their alignment is. All I know is I do not like the trolling crapass way they are playing this game (as several others have expressed as well) and my willingness to vote them at this time is simply to get them out of this game. I think they are anti-town regardless of their alignment.

Hahaha wtf is this post?

It's clear if read.

I really don't know how to explain it to you if you haven't already gotten it. I said I flipped a coin and it came up odds. How can that ever be taken to be like I was trying to be seriously deceptive?

Your self-vote wasn't random. You said it was. Your process of coming to that random vote was a lie. You have since admitted. How is town supposed to determine what lies are legitimate and which are not? You lied. Regardless of your alignment...lying to the other players in the game (the bulk of which who are town) is going to attract negative attention towards you for posting bs/lies. You call it intentional (a gambit?)...I call it tap dancing around your lies. Whether they were plain to see or not. If they were plain to see then what did you hope to gain from them? BS.

And my first comment about my hello everyone post was directed at Sleepless. I said I scum read him for his "so you've never been scum" post and he said that his comment was actually in response to my opening post. I was just saying I always do that.

I thought you were saying you self-voted in all your games. I stand corrected.

I really don't find ToneReader to be anti-town. She at least can't be more anti-town than someone who just shitposts a lot.

We weren't talking about your read on Tone. You said I was scum reading Tone. I am saying I do not. And he/she is anti-town.

Have you ever heard of sarcasm? Saying you flipped a coin and it came up odds is impossible. It should have been clear to any human being who has flipped a coin that I wasn't being serious. I really don't see at all how that can be seen as deceptive and as trying to hide.

[Jodaxq]

Didn't Schism say at some point they were gonna self flip or something? What happened to that?

I wouldn't mind voting for Assemble. He hasn't done much and what he does have just seems like fake busy work. Assassin at least feels kinda genuine to me.

I feel like you and Fitz are good at missing the point

[Jodaxq]

I'll also provide intent to hammer. It doesn't seem like any other lynch is possible today

[Jodaxq]

Cy made some townie posts early and has only made really empty posts since. The holidays and stuff have certainly screwed with this game, but I'll be interested to see if he posts with actual content today.

[Jodaxq]

Don't think Elmo's post really means anything. I had the same thought when I got the PM.

[Jodaxq]

I didn't notice before that Dave voted for ToneReader early just as a way to show disapproval of the gimmick and then never moved his vote. That's certainly interesting. Why did you choose to avoid both wagons, Dave? Why did you not move your vote off of Tone?

[Jodaxq]

If we're looking at the Assemble wagon then I think Sleepless and Chip are the ones to look at first. In my experience hammers like that usually come from town.

[Jodaxq]

Assemble is the best candidate if we want to know who tone would be a threat to.
Mafia could make a framing kill if they had no obvious threats.
If the mafia kill was north then schism is a good candidate.
If mafia killed fits and vig was tone then it would have to be because mafia thought fitz would be widely townreads.
That’s all based on nka which is easier on mobile given quoting isn’t as necessary. Picking apart the thread will require a comp.

I assume you mean Sleepless Assassin and not Assemble?

Fitz was the other wagon yesterday. I doubt mafia hit him.

Would the SK kill go through the same night as his death? If Fitz did get a kill off I would have assumed it was Tone since he seemed very against her gimmick.

[Jodaxq]

I think Sleepless Assassin's posting looks pretty towny, though I don't remember much meta here and it could be fake.

So a mafia kill on Tone out of fear looks unlikely, and I'm leaning towards Fitz killing there to be able to claim vig. A vig killing North would be pretty bad. So the most likely kill assignment is mafia on North, Fitz on Tone, and vig on Fitz. The only other combination that comes close to making sense is Fitz on North, Mafia on Tone, and vig on Fitz, but that requires mafia to kill someone who isn't openly townread by many people -- and it leads us nowhere anyway.

I think that I'd better stop, or I'm likely to tunnel on the NKA and while useful it's not sufficient to solve things on its own.

I disagree about Assassin. I think his posting feels really fake.

I agree it was likely mafia on NSG, Fitz on Tone, vig on Fitz.

[Jodaxq]

I disagree about Assassin. I think his posting feels really fake.

Is this based on positions he has taken, or more a tone thing? If you can point to something specific it will help.

I think it's just mainly 400 that feels really forced to me. Like coming out and saying "hey we should be looking here and you can't tell me we shouldn't be looking here and yeah I know I was here too" just rubs me the wrong way.

[Jodaxq]

Oh my god I think I know who vig is. The only question is if they're a 1 shot of have more of them...

The town flip we got from lynching serves me nothing yet because he's barely posted and everyone had reason to lynch him...

Now we just have to figure out who out of the two that fitz killed, because that would mean that scum would have had to kill the other person and we can look to who had the most likely motivation to kill that person. I mean, of course, I think it's possible that someone rb'ed fitz and then there were were two vigs but I don't think that this set up allows that? Idk I'm too lazy to open another tab. Honestly, I feel that out of the two of them, fitz killed North.

Now, it's the point of any killing role to kill the person who is the biggest threat to you, ie the most townie person or the person who's the most to push for your lynch. North called him out in 229 and in 291, fitz was all like "Wtf tone". That's all I got on his thoughts on either player. With not much to go off of, I doubt that fitz would kill someone whom he stated he questioned their town cred and would rather kill the person who called him out as scum.

Now with that, we can assume scum killed tonereader. Now we must find out who had the biggest motivation to kill them and start from there.

Holy shit can I not understand any of their meaning in anything. I would have loved to do some sort of Phoenix Wright type shit, but I maybe could in another post. I'll have to take some time to read into whatever they meant.

I don't like this post. Not only did you reach an odd conclusion, but it feels like you're just talking about nothing.

[Jodaxq]

Having issues today and probably tomorrow. I will check in to make posts, but I cannot guarantee when

[Jodaxq]

Prod dodge. Today is the day I get caught up. I am so sorry

[Jodaxq]

Catching up now

[Jodaxq]

My problem with the case on Chip that schism made is that it neglects assembles meta. Most people have experienced a game with assemble at some point and it's pretty obvious he's consistently lurksack mislynch bait. It's not AI to assume assemble is going to flip town off of 4 posts.

Heres my problem with that. Its the information in the posts. Its why hes obvious bait.

You do realize you're the leading wagon for this exact same thing, right? What information have you provided for this game other than being the first to "oh there's a vig and they probably shot Fitz"

[Jodaxq]

Cy is bothering me a lot. His game feels like a straightforward by-the-book scum game. Big, empty, inorganic posts that look townie if you don't look close enough followed by a lot of dead air

[Jodaxq]

This game has stalled out, and usually that's a sign that we're looking in the wrong place. I know that I've been a major part of the inactivity and I agree that Chip's inactivity is NAI, but I can't help but feeling we're losing some activity to some people liking the direction this game is moving

[Jodaxq]

Adding to the above post, I want to explore Cy first. Elmo is an okay lynch for me but it feels too similar to the assemble lynch.

VOTE: CytheFlyGuy

[Jodaxq]

Cheeky definitely seems the most townie to me (other than the IC of course) over the past few pages. Similar to my read on NSG, she seems to value game movement and interactions.
Dave is probably next but I'm less confident. I still would probably not lynch him today barring something big.

[Jodaxq]

This game has stalled out, and usually that's a sign that we're looking in the wrong place. I know that I've been a major part of the inactivity and I agree that Chip's inactivity is NAI, but I can't help but feeling we're losing some activity to some people liking the direction this game is moving

If it's stalling out couldn't that also be a sign that we're on the right track?

What are your thoughts on schism and SA?

So far I understand your reads as:

AC
CheekyTeeky
Davesaz
Chip
Elmo
Cy

Is this right?

I still don't like 400 from Sleepless. At all. I also remember not liking his early game very much, but his day one does look better upon reread. I would probably lynch Elmo ahead of him.

Schism seems town to me. I see that Dave has him on top of his scum list... is that just because of the kill on NSG? At least two people now took her Hurt:Schism as a soft claim for an investigation. I also felt she was just pretty obvtown for her D1 play. I don't think I'm willing to accept any scum read that's solely based on night kill analysis.
I feel like Schism's general annoyed/frustrated tone at the way town is playing seems genuine. I think he really feels like he and maybe the IC were kind of on their own at the end of D1 and that truly frustrated him as it limited his ability to scum hunt. I've skimmed through to try to find a more solid case on Schism, but I hadn't seen one. Did I miss it?

[Jodaxq]

Elmo is an okay lynch for me but it feels too similar to the assemble lynch.

How? Most of us openly admitted Assemble was a policy lynch but have actual reasons to suspect Elmo. If it's the fact that Elmo hasn't been very active, you could say that about most anyone in this game.

Maybe it's just me. To me, havingfitz was the best lynch on D1, and Assemble was the "omg. fine. this could be right." lynch. Today, I feel like cy is the best lynch and Elmo is the lynch I'd take if I can't have Cy.

[Jodaxq]

Pretty sure this is the most inactive game I've ever been a part of =(

[Jodaxq]

Ughh if Cheeky is scum then my reads have been pretty bad this game.

VOTE: CheekyTeeky

[Jodaxq]

Not a big fan of Sleepless' resistance, either

[Jodaxq]

Well then. My bad for not checking in before.

Good to see you again Kat! I still enjoy the Soviet Hammer haha

[Jodaxq]

Okay. It's not me. If I get hammered I think you should go for Sleepless next

[Jodaxq]

Why exactly am I the prime suspect anyway?

[Jodaxq]

Why exactly am I the prime suspect anyway?

Your reads are more indicative of scum vs Assassin's reads IMO. Day 1 you gave a nonsensical town read on Cy, then you voted him over Elmo late in the day which felt like you were trying to split the wagons hoping for a no lynch, you scum read him D2 for an iffy post that doesn't seem strong enough to get him off a TR to No. 1 suspect day 2 had you been genuine in your initial read. Also bussing would have been more convincing if you started the wagon should the cy lynch go through.

You were happy to say all your reads were wrong and jump on my wagon with no reason given.

You pushed dave early D2 which made me look into him and think he was scum, I gave my reasons and you showed little interest in following up that initial push you made, like just throwing shade hoping it sticks, before you vote along with him.

Those are my thoughts of your D2, D1 felt like backtracking and posturing, honestly that's just a gut read though. Now you suggest a SA lynch without a reason which would make an actual lynch on him more likely.

Why do you think Sleepless Assassin is scum?

I jumped on your wagon because it seemed to me like you made a scum claim. Dave and Chara saw the same thing so I don't think it was weird.
I was not "happy" to say all my reads were wrong, but if someone makes a scum claim then that overrides all of my reads.
I did not get on in time to see the reasoning behind your claim or otherwise I would have gone back to Cy.

Sleepless is mainly POE. I've been suspicious of him from the start which my ISO will show, but it's between him and Katyusha and Schism, as I've said before, seemed town to me.

[Jodaxq]

Okay. It's not me. If I get hammered I think you should go for Sleepless next

Why Sleepless over me?

I town read Schism before you replaced in and I've been suspicious of Sleepless from the start. A couple of Sleepless' posts have seemed very forced

[Jodaxq]

I could back a schism lynch. Why is Jod obv. town?

No! Just NO.

You know what? F* it.

momo announced there will be no extension to the day while Schism was still being replaced (i.e. Kotoko hadn't joined the game yet).

This means the active players were either 6-2 or 5-3 (depending on Schism's alignment). If it was 5-3 then the whole "active" Town had to be on the wagon for a lynch to go through. Now why would Elmo hammer herself then?? Even after Kotoko joined the game no one could blame him for taking his time and not voting immediately, so BOTH Scum are/were in Cy/Joda/OGML

Cy is dead and confirmed Scum. OGML I don't see as Scum (and neither does Sleepless). It is JODA (who I've been saying is Scum since D1).

I get this logic but I don't see the conclusion as 100% truth. If it is, then it's got to be OMGL.

[Jodaxq]

Looking back I don't see how Sleepless is at all "cleared" for putting Elmo at L-1. That train was rolling close to deadline with no one to stop it. It would have been very suspicious for anyone to have avoided that wagon at the time.

[Jodaxq]

It seems to me that you did.

I was not around at the time to do so.

I was not trying to clear myself by this statement, either. All I'm saying is that a scum-Sleepless would have voted Elmo there.

[Jodaxq]

@hydra

You argued earlier that Fitz shot Tone. You did so in 541 and 556.

Fitz also explicitly said he did NOT scum read Tone. He said so in 312. In the reads list you quoted, he explicitly said scum/anti-town which implies that he doesn't think Tone is scum but is just anti-town. That sounds the exact kind of person he would want to NK.

You are making a ton of assumptions in your tunneling.

[Jodaxq]

@Joda: Back then I didn't know dave was the Vig, and I hadn't ISO'd him to see whom he shot. I'm now updating upon new info.

I don't care whether fitz SR'd Tone or just disliked him. fitz simply doesn't shoot his explicit "dislikes" as SK. He may do it as Vig, but not as SK. As SK he would shoot from his unsure/suspect pool.

I'll only admit I'm wrong here if you can confirm to me Mafia didn't shoot fitz.

What about if I flip town? It seems like your conclusion is that Mafia shot Fitz so therefore I am mafia. If I'm not mafia, does that change your opinion? If it doesn't, then why is this argument even relevant?

Also, if I'm mafia, why would I shoot the person who I explicitly scum read the hardest and who had the second biggest wagon on D1? That seems stranger to me than Fitz shooting someone he disliked or thought was anti-town.

[Jodaxq]

Why couldn't the counter claim come from scum?

it could but it's an equally bad play unless AC is alive or the other two townies are literally unlynchable

@Joda: Back then I didn't know dave was the Vig, and I hadn't ISO'd him to see whom he shot. I'm now updating upon new info.

I don't care whether fitz SR'd Tone or just disliked him. fitz simply doesn't shoot his explicit "dislikes" as SK. He may do it as Vig, but not as SK. As SK he would shoot from his unsure/suspect pool.

I'll only admit I'm wrong here if you can confirm to me Mafia didn't shoot fitz.

What about if I flip town? It seems like your conclusion is that Mafia shot Fitz so therefore I am mafia. If I'm not mafia, does that change your opinion? If it doesn't, then why is this argument even relevant?

Also, if I'm mafia, why would I shoot the person who I explicitly scum read the hardest and who had the second biggest wagon on D1? That seems stranger to me than Fitz shooting someone he disliked or thought was anti-town.

hey joda how about instead of trying to articulate it like that why dont you explain why sleepless is scum

like i think that's important to consider still but

He's consistently pinged me in little ways throughout the game. If you look at my ISO, I've suspected him multiple times this game. I've said multiple times that I feel like 400 is a scum post, especially since he was the one that really gave the Assemble wagon legs in 316. His posts today haven't really felt any better, as you yourself have pointed out.
He also didn't push Elmo as hard as he wants to represent. As he tries to imply in 612, his big civ move this game is his consistent push on Elmo. First, looking back over his posts, he always includes Chip in with Elmo. "I prefer Elmo and Chip," "Elmo is my strongest scum read but Chip is second," "Schism is third behind Elmo and Chip..." He was never super all-in on Elmo and always left the door open for someone else to be lynched.

[Jodaxq]

Well Sleepless is clearly the Doc with no CC so
UNVOTE:

[Jodaxq]

at this rate i'd be confident self hammering just to flip as often as i've seen that throw games

What are you even saying here?

[Jodaxq]

Why is everyone so sure Cheeky is town? I don't like Katyusha's reason

[Jodaxq]

Anyway, Kat, your POE is wrong if it leaves you with just me. Either you're the scum or you're missing something.

[Jodaxq]

Why is everyone so sure Cheeky is town? I don't like Katyusha's reason

What reason have i gave again?

I think i've just called her obvtown.

Yeah. Exactly. I don't like that reason.

[Jodaxq]

That's not a reason that's just a statement that it seems obvious to me.

Why is everyone so sure Cheeky is town? I don't like Katyusha's reason

What reason have i gave again?

I think i've just called her obvtown.

Yeah. Exactly. I don't like that reason.

Cheeky is obvtown.
~Chara

You all realize how much this doesn't advance anything, right? I believe both OGML and Sleepless said that I was obvtown and neither of you see the same thing. I don't see the same thing in Cheeky. You all were happy to have the two of them explain to you why I was obvtown. Why is it so hard to explain to me why Cheeky is?

[Jodaxq]

i dont feel familiar enough with the gamestate to like towncase her

And yet you say she's the most obvious town read you've ever had? My god this is awful

VOTE: Katyusha

[Jodaxq]

Cheeky

[Jodaxq]

joda if you're scum i just want you to know that i kind of figured you're voting me over cheeky/ogml because i said i'd self so

I'm not scum so really don't care.

[Jodaxq]

joda if you're scum i just want you to know that i kind of figured you're voting me over cheeky/ogml because i said i'd self so

Also this is pretty AtE

[Jodaxq]

by "towncase" i mean explain her entire iso or write like a paragraph

why is the gamestate the reason for not doing this?
~Chara

because i was a replacement and i just kind of feel disconnected with the game's events besides what ive directly seen and a few bits and pieces that were strong to me

joda if you're scum i just want you to know that i kind of figured you're voting me over cheeky/ogml because i said i'd self so

Also this is pretty AtE

no it's not?

I don't see how it's not? Maybe I'm just reading it in a pleading tone because you're cornered.

[Jodaxq]

by "towncase" i mean explain her entire iso or write like a paragraph

why is the gamestate the reason for not doing this?
~Chara

because i was a replacement and i just kind of feel disconnected with the game's events besides what ive directly seen and a few bits and pieces that were strong to me

joda if you're scum i just want you to know that i kind of figured you're voting me over cheeky/ogml because i said i'd self so

Also this is pretty AtE

no it's not?

at this rate i'd be confident self hammering just to flip as often as i've seen that throw games

i'm positive that elmo never self votes here if ogml is scum and cheeky is literally one of the most obvious town i've played with thus far

sleepless being the doc means it's just joda

So you picked up bits and pieces that were strong to you but yet she is "literally one of the most obvious town [you've] played with thus far"?

[Jodaxq]

OGML is townier. Let's just say I find him "obvtown"

[Jodaxq]

So you picked up

bits and pieces that were strong

to you but yet she is "

literally one of the most obvious town [you've] played with thus far

"?

these clearly do not contradict and also clearly go hand in hand?

So you picked up bits and pieces that were strong to you but yet she is "literally one of the most obvious town [you've] played with thus far"?

false contradictions ahoy.
~Chara

???? Lol?

Like seriously... what?

[Jodaxq]

tbh in a lylo situation where ogml and cheeky crossed i'd probably pick cheeky anyway?

i recognize this is contradictory but i dont really see why elmo would self hammer - i barely am reading ogml off of his posts and most of my read is centered around that one action but it is what it is. cheeky being townie can be good scumplay

pedit: the small bits and pieces.... that are strong.... are what.... made her very obvious town to me.....

joda..................... you're better than this...............................

i know i'm far from my best this game and am kind of coasting but like i dont really know what else to do given my position as a widely scumread slot

So you're trying to tell me that in a game where you replaced in and feel dissociated, that you picked up strong enough bits and pieces from a player that makes her "literally the most obvious town you've ever played with"? And you when directly asked to towncase this person you couldn't? I know this isn't like your second or third game, Kat. I know you town cased me hard in the last game we played together. There is no way Cheeky is "literally the most obvious town you've ever played with" with what you've given me so far.

[Jodaxq]

for the record i dont think nsg using hurt tags and getting nk'd is really a good reason to scumread this slot but im sort of in an informed position here

pedit: i gave more that game because i was more intune with the game's events having played most of it live - i can try to shit out more i guess but it's hard to articulate a read that just really seems to speak for itself here besides "good trajectory on dave, pressure on elmo wasnt scum motivated"

tbh in a lylo situation where ogml and cheeky crossed i'd probably pick cheeky anyway?

Of course you would because I would scumread the shizz out of you and OGML would likely want to vote me. Are you trying to set up this LYLO scenario?

the assumption is that you townread me and voted ogml it's obviously not a realistic scenario

You're still missing the point and it's starting to look intentional. In fact, you're kind of making it worse.

[Jodaxq]

474 is a good argument for Kat/Schism town. I still don't like her read on Cheeky, and if OGML is town then I think it's Kat.

VOTE: OhGodMyLife

[Jodaxq]

GG all

[Jodaxq]

*happy, not happen.
sorry, Joda. i was in the middle of reworking myself, but the rest of you pulled together admirably in spite of that.
OGML would have been the lynch tomorrow (at least for us) had we been wrong on Joda, but that doesn't make us less wrong.

Not proud of my read on Joda, but -at least- we defended Kat well and prevented her mislynch.

No worries! Everyone is wrong sometimes. You all were key in me switching to OGML and that's all that matters.


Also, not saying this is some great strategy or anything, but three enemies tried to throw shade at me for my self vote.