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Post Post #29 (isolation #0) » Mon Jan 15, 2018 3:21 am

Post by acryon »

In post 25, profii wrote:I don't like
Sauce trying to role speculate.
eth0s posting about the rules way after his original post - a bit of a forced town slip, as obviously, mafia don't need to read the rules to know there is day talk.
Agree completely with both of these.
I can't make my mind up over rb's reaction without WIFOM'ing over it - he could be scum hunting and call my play a double bluff, i.e. "profii self votes, profii says first voter is scum starting a wagon - therefore, the bluff is scum!profii uses the play to cast shade on whoever gets on the wagon and lead the town that way"

If RB hadn't made that weird 'first' fake post then I would have said he was town trying to scum hunt me but was just wrong. But because of that weird post I am now thinking he could just as easily be scum double bluffing my play to cast shade on me. Time will tell, FoS for now.
I think you're just looking too much into this. He was not that serious.
In post 22, Sauce wrote:I'm guessing there are 2 mafia, maybe an SK too.
Piggybacking on profii here. This is total faux-content. Adds zero to the game.

VOTE: Sauce
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Post Post #36 (isolation #1) » Mon Jan 15, 2018 8:06 am

Post by acryon »

In post 35, Lalendra wrote:Agreeing with Thor that the content profii is producing doesn't feel town. I especially dislike his push on rb, I didn't see anything alignment-indicative in what he said. 25 feels forced and as if he is trying to generate content. I'm fairly certain that of the people he mentioned, most are town and 1-2 are his buddies. Also not sure why he's trying so hard to breadcrumb his alignment/role this early.

UNVOTE:
FOS profii
Is there a reason you would FOS profii and not just vote?
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Post Post #41 (isolation #2) » Mon Jan 15, 2018 8:44 am

Post by acryon »

In post 38, Sauce wrote:Related -- although perhaps not directly -- I'd be weary of the robotic manner in which what I've said in that post is being used against me to allege role speculation if I weren't to optimistically conclude that we are yet to enter a stage in the game where things expressed are to be taken as the genuinely views of the author and not warped out of proportion -- in terms of worthiness of being expressed and level of alignment indication -- to fit the notion that needless verbosity is required to somehow propel the game out of rvs.
Except that my point was exactly regarding verbosity. You used more words (several) to express a non-point than necessary (zero).
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Post Post #58 (isolation #3) » Mon Jan 15, 2018 11:15 am

Post by acryon »

In post 54, Sauce wrote:
In post 46, Thor665 wrote:I see no particular gain in it
today
I'd like to know what people think is the appropriate number of mafia, and the likelihood of there being an sk in a 10 player game with daytalk now, and don't see any gain in picking the discussion back up again later.
Why does this matter at all right now? There have been zero roles revealed and zero flips. Whether there is a 3P or not, you look for people that are scummy.
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Post Post #61 (isolation #4) » Mon Jan 15, 2018 11:30 am

Post by acryon »

In post 59, Sauce wrote:
In post 58, acryon wrote:
In post 54, Sauce wrote:
In post 46, Thor665 wrote:I see no particular gain in it
today
I'd like to know what people think is the appropriate number of mafia, and the likelihood of there being an sk in a 10 player game with daytalk now, and don't see any gain in picking the discussion back up again later.
Why does this matter at all right now? There have been zero roles revealed and zero flips. Whether there is a 3P or not, you look for people that are scummy.
What better time than now?
A time when we know literally any more info than we do now. This is the worst possible time to discuss it because it does nothing to help.

How does having any conversation about the setup help town find scum right now? It can help when you're trying to figure out how risky a certain play is, how likely a certain claim is, etc. But none of that applies right now.

Pedit: It's hilarious to me that you're trying to talk down to people when you're the one wasting time talking about things that have zero impact on the game today.
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Post Post #62 (isolation #5) » Mon Jan 15, 2018 11:33 am

Post by acryon »

"Why talk about the obvious setup later (when it matters) when we can speculate on it now (when it doesn't)."
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Post Post #87 (isolation #6) » Tue Jan 16, 2018 2:57 am

Post by acryon »

I was thinking the lack of original content was maybe Flavor's shtick, but looking at post history it looks like it's not. So I'm confused why we haven't seen any real content from him.

I have PL'd Boonskies in multiple games in the past for being VI, although I actually think the random reads are doing more to help than people realize. That being said, now that Flavor has worked himself to L-2, he should probably start talking.

I can't imagine scum playing this recklessly so I'm not going to endorse any vote there. I still think Sauce is scum, but it's possible I'm mixing wrongness and scumminess.
In post 84, eth0s wrote:think scum!flavor = town!dunk
and town!flavor = scum!dunk
Why?
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Post Post #89 (isolation #7) » Tue Jan 16, 2018 3:35 am

Post by acryon »

In post 88, Sauce wrote:
In post 87, acryon wrote:I can't imagine scum playing this recklessly so I'm not going to endorse any vote there.
Reckless how?
Putting a giant target on his head by not posting a single original comment. Best-case scenario he looks like unhelpful town which often end up being lynch-worthy.
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Post Post #91 (isolation #8) » Tue Jan 16, 2018 4:17 am

Post by acryon »

In post 90, profii wrote:If you look at Flavor's ISO he literally hasn't posted a word other than votes and those boxes with reads in.

I know some fairly basic roles but a lot I have to wiki as I go - is it possible that he has a role that means he can only do what he has been doing, or is he just being elusive for fun
This isn't a theme game so I'm guessing no.
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Post Post #98 (isolation #9) » Tue Jan 16, 2018 5:33 am

Post by acryon »

In post 93, Sauce wrote:
In post 89, acryon wrote:
In post 88, Sauce wrote:
In post 87, acryon wrote:I can't imagine scum playing this recklessly so I'm not going to endorse any vote there.
Reckless how?
Putting a giant target on his head by not posting a single original comment. Best-case scenario he looks like unhelpful town which often end up being lynch-worthy.
Not seeing a stark contrast between Leaf's iso and that of the likes of rb and Dunker. Are you sure it's not just the extravagant color choice that appeases you?

I wouldn't go around townreading anyone whose posts lack effort, value, relevance, purpose, honesty, fearlessness, immediacy, clarity and joy based on nothing but wifom / too scummy to be scum, but hey, I'm town.
You call literally everything WIFOM. His play so far does not seem helpful for the scumteam if he is scum. He's drawing reactions; he's placing a target on himself.

RB and Dunker have played similarly so far, but they have played very differently from Leaf. If you don't see much of a contrast, I think you need to take another look.
In post 94, profii wrote:
In post 91, acryon wrote:
In post 90, profii wrote:If you look at Flavor's ISO he literally hasn't posted a word other than votes and those boxes with reads in.

I know some fairly basic roles but a lot I have to wiki as I go - is it possible that he has a role that means he can only do what he has been doing, or is he just being elusive for fun
This isn't a theme game so I'm guessing no.
Flavor = no content
Sauce = over the top content

sure? :D
Hot take: I actually think Flavor has provided more content than Sauce.
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Post Post #99 (isolation #10) » Tue Jan 16, 2018 5:50 am

Post by acryon »

p.edit: You
can
call literally everything WIFOM.
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Post Post #108 (isolation #11) » Tue Jan 16, 2018 6:12 am

Post by acryon »

In post 100, Flavor Leaf wrote:I don’t think I’ve ever been policy lynched, so you’ve attempted to policy me, sure, but yeah, I’ve never been actually policied, and haven’t been lynched in Boonskiies as town more than once in three years.

Back to my only quoting thing.
Yeah it's possible I'm just thinking about a specific game or two where I really
wanted
to PL you and I'm actually mis-remembering that any actually went through.
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Post Post #112 (isolation #12) » Tue Jan 16, 2018 7:13 am

Post by acryon »

In post 111, profii wrote:
In post 97, Sauce wrote:
In post 95, profii wrote:ebwop, content is probably the wrong word, but sauce is very flowery, need to read his other games to see if this is just his thing to be fair
I haven't had a scumgame on this site yet so I advise you to metadive anyone but me if you wish to gain ai insight.
No I was more wondering if spending 4 paragraphs when you could have put “we don’t need to discuss your fos aimed at me” is something you do routinely

It comes over as a wall post that you would hope most people will gloss past when they realise it’s directed at the FOS’er but it was a total shutdown for said FOS’er - that doesn’t matter though, they suspected you anyway.

But given the post you quoted from other game apparently that’s your style. The style wasn’t particularly AI but the shutdown aimed at Thor was scummy imo
Yeah Sauce's posts have really struck me. The are just
weird
. To me it feels more likely to be scummy weird.
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Post Post #121 (isolation #13) » Tue Jan 16, 2018 9:34 am

Post by acryon »

In post 119, Sauce wrote:Willing to policy lynch Leaf. Don't think Lalendra and acryon should've encouraged him.
You're willing to policy lynch someone 2 days into the game? I assume RB and Dunker are quite high on your policy lynch list?
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Post Post #123 (isolation #14) » Tue Jan 16, 2018 9:46 am

Post by acryon »

In post 122, Sauce wrote:
In post 121, acryon wrote:
In post 119, Sauce wrote:Willing to policy lynch Leaf. Don't think Lalendra and acryon should've encouraged him.
You're willing to policy lynch someone 2 days into the game? I assume RB and Dunker are quite high on your policy lynch list?
Why?
Because their level of contribution is similar to Leaf's. I would say they've contributed less actually.
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Post Post #133 (isolation #15) » Tue Jan 16, 2018 11:32 am

Post by acryon »

In post 125, Sauce wrote:
In post 121, acryon wrote:
In post 119, Sauce wrote:Willing to policy lynch Leaf. Don't think Lalendra and acryon should've encouraged him.
You're willing to policy lynch someone 2 days into the game?
No, I'm not, nor did I in any way say that.
Is this a joke? You literally have the quote of you saying "willing to policy lynch Leaf" in this same post you replied to...
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Post Post #140 (isolation #16) » Tue Jan 16, 2018 11:45 am

Post by acryon »

In post 138, Sauce wrote:Man, I wish this was the tiebreaker game for team mafia, so the whole site would have to read and see the amount of shit I have to sift through just to lynch this fucking scum who scumclaimed on page 1.
I think you think you're a lot better at this than you are...

To be perfectly clear, I said:
"You're willing to policy lynch someone 2 days into the game?"

I meant:
You're willing to policy lynch someone? And you're willing to do that just 2 days into the game?"
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Post Post #164 (isolation #17) » Tue Jan 16, 2018 4:05 pm

Post by acryon »

In post 163, eth0s wrote:Oh, that didn't work... Interesting.

Image
Ok I like you more now.

Sauce for the love of all that is good stop with the ridiculous pontificating. I'm very glad I don't think you're town because I would have to wrestle with the idea of wanting someone out of the game so badly for being annoying but not thinking they're scum. Thankfully this seems like it could be one of those sweet spots where you're actually both--a true win.
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Post Post #173 (isolation #18) » Wed Jan 17, 2018 3:18 am

Post by acryon »

In post 172, Thor665 wrote:
In post 166, rb wrote:after sauce we do flavor leaf
Why do you hate both of those players and have not mentioned Dunkerdoodles?
I feel like it would be hard for him to mention anything about Dunker because they're playing the exact same game.
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Post Post #177 (isolation #19) » Wed Jan 17, 2018 5:03 am

Post by acryon »

I don't understand what you think I misinterpreted.

2 days into the game, you say "Willing to policy lynch Leaf."

I say "You're willing to policy lynch someone 2 days into the game?"

Help me out with the misinterpretation.

I'm also not sure what you mean by me "responding to something after being called out for scummy behavior". Who called me out for scummy behavior? If anything you can call it proactive AtE if that fits your narrative, but I don't think I was responding to anything.

This most recent post from you is the first time it's even been clear you are trying to say anything of value, but your conclusion is bad so I can only give you partial credit.
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Post Post #180 (isolation #20) » Wed Jan 17, 2018 5:09 am

Post by acryon »

In post 179, Dunkerdoodles wrote:
In post 167, profii wrote:I think we need to hear more from Dunker and Hyung
why
Well including you, RB, hyung, and Flavor, we more or less have 40% of the game not saying anything.
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Post Post #185 (isolation #21) » Wed Jan 17, 2018 5:29 am

Post by acryon »

In post 184, profii wrote:I can't place rb.

I self vote, he pushes
people start to notice flavors posting style = he pushes
saucy starts being saucy with the dictionary whilst posting = he pushes

all of the above are potential wagons but could also argue scum-style to pressure with a vote etc... It just sends me down a WIFOM hole that I can't decide on.
Yeah this is pretty similar to how he played the last game I was in with him and he was scum there, but it just feels like that's his style in general.
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Post Post #195 (isolation #22) » Wed Jan 17, 2018 7:51 am

Post by acryon »

In post 191, Sauce wrote:@acryon so ..
In post 33, Thor665 wrote:@Profii

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... ng_as_Town

For your education if you are town.
Though that reaction makes me really want to flip you now.
does this mean Thor wants to hammer profii on page 2?
You're badly reaching here.

1. He said "makes me want to". You said "willing to". An apparent wordsmith such as yourself shouldn't have any problem understanding the differences between these two, and I think I'd be insulting your intelligence if I spent anymore time expounding.

2. Ignoring the semantics, he was talking about a reaction, meaning his reason for wanting to lynch would've been because he thinks they're scum. You supported a policy lynch.
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Post Post #199 (isolation #23) » Wed Jan 17, 2018 8:28 am

Post by acryon »

In post 198, Sauce wrote:
In post 195, acryon wrote:
In post 191, Sauce wrote:@acryon so ..
In post 33, Thor665 wrote:@Profii

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... ng_as_Town

For your education if you are town.
Though that reaction makes me really want to flip you now.
does this mean Thor wants to hammer profii on page 2?
You're badly reaching here.

1. He said "makes me want to". You said "willing to". An apparent wordsmith such as yourself shouldn't have any problem understanding the differences between these two, and I think I'd be insulting your intelligence if I spent anymore time expounding.

2. Ignoring the semantics, he was talking about a reaction, meaning his reason for wanting to lynch would've been because he thinks they're scum. You supported a policy lynch.
1. stop trying to troll me and troll me.
2. Is it not hypocritical for a policy lynch supporter such as yourself to criticize me for finding a policy lynch on Leaf appropriate?
1. So you really don't get it? Rr are you actually trolling? Convinced you must be.

2.
Reformed
policy-lynch supporter such as myself, and even when I did support them in the past, it was never anywhere near this early in the game, which you should know has been and will continue to be the point of contention.
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Post Post #241 (isolation #24) » Thu Jan 18, 2018 2:48 am

Post by acryon »

In post 226, Flavor Leaf wrote:
In post 89, acryon wrote:
In post 88, Sauce wrote:
In post 87, acryon wrote:I can't imagine scum playing this recklessly so I'm not going to endorse any vote there.
Reckless how?
Putting a giant target on his head by not posting a single original comment. Best-case scenario he looks like unhelpful town which often end up being lynch-worthy.
Image
You and I have different definitions of WK'ing.

Unlike Profii, I am not convinced by Sauce's most recent post that he's not scum. Feels like he's getting credit for giving extra effort and I don't agree with that.

Sauce - Scum
Dunker - Lean-scum
Lalendra - Lean-scum
Hyung - Null
RB - Lean-town
Profii - Lean-town
Thor - Town
ethos - Town
FlavorLeaf - Town
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Post Post #245 (isolation #25) » Thu Jan 18, 2018 4:09 am

Post by acryon »

In post 244, Lalendra wrote:Is there any flavor-related reason why FL might be posting the way he is?
I don't think so. See from him.
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Post Post #249 (isolation #26) » Thu Jan 18, 2018 6:22 am

Post by acryon »

In post 248, profii wrote:
In post 244, Lalendra wrote:Is there any flavor-related reason why FL might be posting the way he is?
In post 245, acryon wrote:
In post 244, Lalendra wrote:Is there any flavor-related reason why FL might be posting the way he is?
I don't think so. See from him.
Acryon - given I mentioned this and you gave the same answer. (Approx post 90ish) It stands to reason that Lalendra isn’t reading the thread in any great detail (confirmed by a distinct lack of offense)

Do you think this lack of attention could be down to being scum and knowing who the scum are?

Because I do!

VOTE: Lalendra
Possible. The thing I have issue with for Lalendra is the overall content. Outside of their first few posts, every post has been about FL or Sauce. For Sauce, it's sort of pushing people away from him as scum, and for FL it's an internal struggle about whether his playstyle is scum or NAI.
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Post Post #251 (isolation #27) » Thu Jan 18, 2018 6:40 am

Post by acryon »

In post 250, profii wrote:Weirdly I feel Saucy has contributed almost equally little content. There are practically no indications of his thoughts on most players alignments
I agree, although my thoughts on that are well-documented.
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Post Post #262 (isolation #28) » Thu Jan 18, 2018 7:54 am

Post by acryon »

In post 253, Lalendra wrote:
In post 249, acryon wrote:Possible. The thing I have issue with for Lalendra is the overall content. Outside of their first few posts, every post has been about FL or Sauce. For Sauce, it's sort of pushing people away from him as scum, and for FL it's an internal struggle about whether his playstyle is scum or NAI.
It's easy to focus on two players when one of them has a distinct posting style that is drawing attention to themselves, and the other (who I guess also has a distinct posting style) is engaged in a 1v1 with someone which looks fairly pointless to me, but generated a lot of content.
Fair
In post 261, profii wrote:
In post 259, Lalendra wrote:That's what I was referring to, yes. 28, 46, 65, 68, 113, 120, 128, 130, 151, 172, 178, 181 and 206 were all about Sauce, either completely or almost. That's more than half of his ISO.

p-edit: Thanks for the clarification Arch!
I just see that as them bickering at each other - neither of them have offered much in the way of reads outside of each other. I struggle to call it content :lol:
I think I've only played with Thor once, and I remember him tunneling on someone day 1, so this feels very much like that. That being said, I do think he has spread out some questions elsewhere too.
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Post Post #265 (isolation #29) » Thu Jan 18, 2018 8:08 am

Post by acryon »

Scum don't have to be sorry.
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Post Post #268 (isolation #30) » Thu Jan 18, 2018 8:13 am

Post by acryon »

In post 267, Sauce wrote:
In post 262, acryon wrote:I think I've only played with Thor once, and I remember him tunneling on someone day 1, so this feels very much like that. That being said, I do think he has spread out some questions elsewhere too.
Funny how you fail to mention Thor's alignment. Scumslip
You mean like I did on the page right before this one:
In post 241, acryon wrote: Sauce - Scum
Dunker - Lean-scum
Lalendra - Lean-scum
Hyung - Null
RB - Lean-town
Profii - Lean-town
Thor - Town

ethos - Town
FlavorLeaf - Town
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Post Post #271 (isolation #31) » Thu Jan 18, 2018 8:19 am

Post by acryon »

In post 270, Sauce wrote:Without said alignment specification your meta read can't be used for analysis. It must've slipped your mind that you were supposed to reach a conclusion in that regard to seem helpful to town.
Well anyone who read the thread could connect those dots. That being said, my point was not even that I think he is town due to meta. It was just to say that his play-style in general seems to be one that semi-tunnels often.

I think he's town because his play feels like town. His questions and prodding appear to be moving discussion forward.
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Post Post #273 (isolation #32) » Thu Jan 18, 2018 8:29 am

Post by acryon »

In post 272, Sauce wrote:And flavor leaf and eth0s town, cmon man. You could've at least tried.
Why do you think they're not?

You already supposedly think profii and Thor are scum, and now you've voted me. Maybe a clear readslist from you would be helpful.
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Post Post #276 (isolation #33) » Thu Jan 18, 2018 8:49 am

Post by acryon »

In post 275, Sauce wrote:
In post 273, acryon wrote:
In post 272, Sauce wrote:And flavor leaf and eth0s town, cmon man. You could've at least tried.
Why do you think they're not?

You already supposedly think profii and Thor are scum, and now you've voted me. Maybe a clear readslist from you would be helpful.
Why bother at this point. Hush; just get lynched quietly now.
So you wall when no one is interested and now you can't talk when someone actually is?
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Post Post #279 (isolation #34) » Thu Jan 18, 2018 9:04 am

Post by acryon »

Yeah and in general, having so many players with so little content is going to make it very hard to find scum.
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Post Post #345 (isolation #35) » Fri Jan 19, 2018 3:23 am

Post by acryon »

In post 310, Dunkerdoodles wrote:why is flavor leaf still alive
Do you think you've added more to the game than he has?
In post 315, rb wrote:VOTE: eth0s

If Sauce is scum, he'll never win the game. I'd rather lynch this.
Eh, people forget easily. Usually near-lynches take quite some time to complete on future days, if they ever do.
In post 340, rb wrote:Brevity =/= scummy.
This is true, although it's worth noting that less content means less to analyze which means it's more difficult for town to find scum overall. So being brief does not make one scummy, but extreme brevity can be somewhat anti-town.
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Post Post #347 (isolation #36) » Fri Jan 19, 2018 3:55 am

Post by acryon »

In post 346, Lalendra wrote:Feeling a lot better about both eth0s and dunker in light of recent posts.
Which posts by them have made you feel better?
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Post Post #350 (isolation #37) » Fri Jan 19, 2018 6:05 am

Post by acryon »

In post 349, Sauce wrote:To clarify the prfii Thor connection, I'm not surprised about it being Thor's style to provoke someone, as I've experienced it fist-hand, but to do it so soon and so devoid of any town motivation is indicative of a scummy mindset.
Upon speculation about possible scum constellations I would say it's more likelier for profii to be scum with Thor, because then the apparent provocation / insult is diffused as just two scum goofing off to fake interaction.
"Devoid of any town motivation" is your spin on it. I think provoking someone is almost
always
pro-town. Stirring people up can get them to slip.
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Post Post #352 (isolation #38) » Fri Jan 19, 2018 6:13 am

Post by acryon »

In post 351, Sauce wrote:Can I get just on post not getting trashtalked on in this game? It most often turns the game into a spamfest involving just a few of the players, who are severely being limited in the scope of expression of their alignment.
I can sympathize with your feeling, but when someone says something someone else feels is off-base, it's generally going to get called out without exception.

Posting a rebuttal to posts is not "trashtalking".
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Post Post #355 (isolation #39) » Fri Jan 19, 2018 6:43 am

Post by acryon »

In post 354, Sauce wrote:Obviously the best way to scumhunt is to write the necessary posts one deems sufficient in order to make in unmistakably clear to the objective observer that one is town. Then, if everyone or at least a majority has been given the chance to do so we can start applying pressure. And then if there are inconsistencies or slips or lack of the qualities I've invoked earlier in this game that pertain to townieness, then one can objectively say upon scrutinizing them, that one has succeeded in scumhunting and the rest is up to the fellow townies.
This is such a weird way to view the game. This assumes everyone has this same MO, which they don't. My goal is not to "make it unmistakably clear to the objective observer" that I'm town. I'm just trying to scum-hunt and I think that the work will speak for itself when people look at it.

This game is not some utopia where we all sit around talking about how town we are and then everyone moves on to some "scumhunting" phase.
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Post Post #367 (isolation #40) » Fri Jan 19, 2018 9:45 am

Post by acryon »

1. I never had an issue with your RB comment. I always had an issue with you asking about how many scum their were. This is evidenced by my follow-up discussion with you, which was exclusively about that aspect.

2. I also never said you wanted the day to end two days into the day phase. I was surprised by your early willingness to state that you think a PL would be appropriate.

3. Wrong. Everyone has the right assess the merit of anything. That's literally what this game is.

4. Except you are the one that brought it up in the first place; AND setup speculation is actually a
critical
component of the game in later days as we determine the best course of action.

You seem to think I ever had an issue with , which I didn't. I have never even eluded to the fact that I cared about . My issue was always about , which is obvious to anyone who read the thread.
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Post Post #368 (isolation #41) » Fri Jan 19, 2018 9:48 am

Post by acryon »

5. Disagree with your assessment of his content.

6. Rarely are scum found on something they explicitly did; this game isn't that easy. People are lynched for perceived intent.

7. There is nothing wrong with saying something controversial, but you're not simply being controversial.
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Post Post #371 (isolation #42) » Fri Jan 19, 2018 9:55 am

Post by acryon »

In post 370, Sauce wrote:
In post 367, acryon wrote:1. I never had an issue with your RB comment. I always had an issue with you asking about how many scum their were. This is evidenced by my follow-up discussion with you, which was exclusively about that aspect.

2. I also never said you wanted the day to end two days into the day phase. I was surprised by your early willingness to state that you think a PL would be appropriate.

3. Wrong. Everyone has the right assess the merit of anything. That's literally what this game is.

4. Except you are the one that brought it up in the first place; AND setup speculation is actually a
critical
component of the game in later days as we determine the best course of action.

You seem to think I ever had an issue with , which I didn't. I have never even eluded to the fact that I cared about . My issue was always about , which is obvious to anyone who read the thread.
In post 368, acryon wrote:5. Disagree with your assessment of his content.

6. Rarely are scum found on something they explicitly did; this game isn't that easy. People are lynched for perceived intent.

7. There is nothing wrong with saying something controversial, but you're not simply being controversial.
WTF are you doing. Have you even read what I've written. You would have to have read my iso before responding without making a complete fool of yourself again. Read my iso or don't even act like you understand what I've listed there. It's not funny, ffs. I'm not here for your entertainment or exhibition of coolness. Get reading or get lynched, goddamnit!
We have already had these discussions and I unfortunately remember them. Why would I have to go back and re-read your ISO, especially when the answers are so clear.
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Post Post #375 (isolation #43) » Fri Jan 19, 2018 10:07 am

Post by acryon »

In post 372, Sauce wrote:
In post 367, acryon wrote:1. I never had an issue with your RB comment. I always had an issue with you asking about how many scum their were. This is evidenced by my follow-up discussion with you, which was exclusively about that aspect.

2. I also never said you wanted the day to end two days into the day phase. I was surprised by your early willingness to state that you think a PL would be appropriate.

3. Wrong. Everyone has the right assess the merit of anything. That's literally what this game is.

4. Except you are the one that brought it up in the first place; AND setup speculation is actually a
critical
component of the game in later days as we determine the best course of action.

You seem to think I ever had an issue with , which I didn't. I have never even eluded to the fact that I cared about . My issue was always about , which is obvious to anyone who read the thread.
1. How is that role speculation? And how is that agreeing completely with what profii said?
2, There's absolutely no reason for a decision to policy lynch someone who refuses to use the full capacity of his expression to surprise you.
3. Here you are lecturing me about what the game is after all this .. this^ including. Are you fucking kidding me?
4. No it's not, read my arguments. Nobody needs to chew new setup information and spit it out into someone else's mouth to be able to get and digest it. I've brought what up first. This is going to lead to more stupidity, there's no other way around it, but I can't expose it before you answer this, or else I would, but your statement makes zero sense as it is.
1. I suppose it is not "role speculation" as much as it is "setup speculation", but that feels like semantics to me.
2. Given that PL are bad 99% of the time, I think there is.
3. N/A
4. Talking to a wall on this point if you can't understand.
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Post Post #377 (isolation #44) » Fri Jan 19, 2018 10:09 am

Post by acryon »

In post 374, Sauce wrote:
In post 373, profii wrote:saucy waucy
In post 368, acryon wrote:5. Disagree with your assessment of his content.

6. Rarely are scum found on something they explicitly did; this game isn't that easy. People are lynched for perceived intent.

7. There is nothing wrong with saying something controversial, but you're not simply being controversial.
5. Just off the top of your head, eh? You haven't had time to consider it. Stupid, how you post this nevertheless.
6. Don't give me statistics in a casually played educated guessing game where the amount of replacements usually outnumber the initial players. You are acting like you haven't stupidity-slipped again, lecturing, nay, condescending. Can there be anything funnier and more tragic at the same time.
7. What did I say 7 was again.. oh right. You're going to make some random provocation appear from your hat again. And you won't be the only one. See quote
5. I'm playing this game. I've read it all. I make conclusions on things as I go.
6. Alright.
7. Alright.

For the sake of town not having to sift through two people disagreeing for pages (and because I'll be V/LA for the weekend), this will be my last response to you for now.
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Post Post #386 (isolation #45) » Fri Jan 19, 2018 11:03 am

Post by acryon »

@Mod:
V/LA until Tuesday morning CST.
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Post Post #696 (isolation #46) » Tue Jan 23, 2018 3:43 am

Post by acryon »

In post 410, Flavor Leaf wrote:I'm actually feeling rather confident in my reads this game.

Acryon, you're scum. You were buddying up to me because I looked like I could be getting lynched and you were going to get the town cred from it. You started white knighting me, and with my gimmick, which I've been trying to do things like this in my games lately, Day 1's are meh to me, and I get in a lot of 1v1's.
Did you really think it ever looked like you could be getting lynched today?
In post 495, profii wrote:acryon = any thought on Dunker / Flavour / Lalendra town reading Saucy, who you appear to scum read?
They're all likely wrong. It's confusing to me how anyone could be town-reading him right now. It's also confusing to me how anyone could be scumreading Flavor, but I've also played with Boon a handful of times in the past so maybe that's more of a gut thing.
In post 568, Flavor Leaf wrote:There was absolutely no reason as scum for me to be polarizing the group. That’s bad on y’all except the scum, and will continue to shout that in the dead thread after.
This is what I tried to tell the town earlier :)
In post 623, profii wrote:well I'm @ L-2, thor, eth0s, FL, hyung.

VOTE: profii

As I said in my 2nd post, it's not the worst thing if a VT dies & you can have a think about whoever throws down the hammer.
I strongly recommend you consider how manipulative FL has been today and weather you really believe his PR claim before hammering.

GL town!
Self-voting is anti-town 100% of the time. Don't do it.
In post 694, profii wrote:just out of interest does my vote on the FL spot stand and does the hyung vote on me stand in this scenario
Yes.

Ok all caught up from the weekend. FL replacing out sucks. He was helpful. His reads weren't great but he was obvtown IMO.

@Kop & Jodaxq: To make your lives easier, just vote Sauce and let's move on.
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Post Post #700 (isolation #47) » Tue Jan 23, 2018 6:35 am

Post by acryon »

In post 699, profii wrote: My point on flavour is in your posts

Compare the last sentence in post 98 - he provides content
And
Post 89 - putting a giant target on his back by posting no content.
At that point in the game, was much more about putting into perspective how
little
content Sauce was actually providing as opposed to really giving Flavor credit for content.

Obviously we are around 600 pages on and things have been said but my theory is by posting in that particular style, some people will see the content as you did (ie they are probably people who have similar reads and may evenl reciprocate with giving FL a town read)

Other people will say wtf is this no content scum bs (etc)

By polarising the group in this way he can see quite quickly if he has a big enough faux-town-block and encourage them to lynch whoever they think they want to go for as long as a) not his scum mate, b) he doesn’t lead it. Scum are then in the driving seat

Sounds audacious? Agreed but this game is all about trying to drive an agenda without anyone knowing. Everyone seems to indicate FL is a strong player so I think he could be capable
Sounds incredibly audacious. And this is where my gut comes in, but it just
really
does not feel like the kind of play I could see coming from Boon.
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Post Post #725 (isolation #48) » Wed Jan 24, 2018 2:43 am

Post by acryon »

In post 722, profii wrote:Wtf I can’t find the post. I am
sure
Eth0s said something along the lines of we shouldn’t lynch Hyung I sure about that and I thought it was odd with the lack of posts and all- also now the hyung vote on me gets me thinking

I can find a post where I referenced it but I can’t find the actual post. I’m losing my mind
FWIW I also agree we shouldn't lynch Hyung. The slot has actual zero content so far.
In post 712, rb wrote:Can you verify the claim?
Would Jodaxq answer change your view of your vote one way or the other?
In post 709, rb wrote:Okay that's actually fairly consistent, but do you really think eth0s is just bad at the game and that's why he's lacking content? How do you rule out that he might just be coasting scum?
I know this wasn't posed to me, but I don't think so. Amount of content has already been a very hot topic in this game. I have to imagine scum would be trying to avoid getting lynched due to coasting.
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Post Post #731 (isolation #49) » Wed Jan 24, 2018 6:24 am

Post by acryon »

In post 728, profii wrote:I've just re-read Dunkers ISO. He had 3 votes on him pretty quick and said someone there would be scum.

me / Flavor (Jodaxq) / eth0s.

He then moved back and forth on his read on flavor a number of times, whilst voting for me as well.
He has previously said eth0s was a town read, but could be scum for hopping on the wagon.

There was also a random PR CC in there too.

I'm kinda leaning on the flip flopping on FL being a town person who doesn't know wtf was going on. Seems weird to make a PR cc at 3 out of 6 votes though.
So what is your conclusion on all of this regarding Dunker?
In post 730, Thor665 wrote:Considering the word games he opted to play with me (relevant things to look at our his dissection of my "all of you" statement) I then find how he reacted to Acronym's question (2 days would be the ctrl+f to find it in iso) to read funny. If he thinks it's interesting/funny/scumhunting to dissect my words why the hell would he blow up on Acronym for straight up asking him about something he explicitly said?

That reads funky to me - and Acronym was *not* being a jerk when he asked, but got all the shotguns to the face in return.
That's what's bugging me.
Want to echo all of this.
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Post Post #733 (isolation #50) » Wed Jan 24, 2018 6:32 am

Post by acryon »

In post 732, profii wrote:Just wondered why he made a PR claim at 3 out of 6 votes
I don't feel like it's fair to say he did this. He tested for reactions, but if someone makes a claim before actually verifying they have the votes, that's on them. And especially in the case of Flavor, I read all of that as flailing VI (which is what I recall from past games with Boon), not real claims.
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Post Post #738 (isolation #51) » Wed Jan 24, 2018 7:46 am

Post by acryon »

In post 736, Lalendra wrote:
In post 734, Dunkerdoodles wrote:rb seems too logical
VOTE: rb
...what
In what way is logic a bad thing?
Logic is in theory a good thing, but scum can use it just as easily as town can. Overall it's NAI.
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Post Post #740 (isolation #52) » Wed Jan 24, 2018 8:01 am

Post by acryon »

In post 739, Dunkerdoodles wrote:its a meta thing
Yeah that's a different story.
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Post Post #749 (isolation #53) » Wed Jan 24, 2018 9:44 am

Post by acryon »

In post 748, Sauce wrote:What maaaaaaasive moron one has to be to doubt that I'm town .. like I don't even know. If I'm scum just give the fuck up for the sake of humanity, because if you can find scum by using every synonym of lying as methods then town should be called scum and scum should be elevated to royalty so they can starve them to death.
I think you should take a look at a list of some of the key ways to
not
get people to take your side and study it. Ad hominem and hyperbole are certainly near the top.
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Post Post #757 (isolation #54) » Wed Jan 24, 2018 10:19 am

Post by acryon »

In post 754, rb wrote:VOTE: Sauce

jodax is reallyfuckingtown
This post is what I've been saying all game :)
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Post Post #766 (isolation #55) » Wed Jan 24, 2018 11:03 am

Post by acryon »

In post 764, profii wrote:I think he is on 3 votes. Not sure if he will continue to be a numpty as we approach majority so worth finding out
I think 4.

Me, Thor, Lal, you.
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Post Post #768 (isolation #56) » Wed Jan 24, 2018 11:14 am

Post by acryon »

In post 767, profii wrote:Don’t see lals vote
Oops, RB, not Lal.
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Post Post #802 (isolation #57) » Thu Jan 25, 2018 2:40 am

Post by acryon »

In post 796, Jodaxq wrote:Are there any town reads on Lalendra? If there are, why?
I started to type up my response, but this pretty much nails it for me:
In post 797, rb wrote:I have literally no read on lalendra because I feel that she's likely lynchbait as either alignment.
In post 798, profii wrote: Now the next thought was I am thinking Saucy is anti town but I'm not fully convinced he is scummy. On that logic, if he flipped town, sure someone in the town block could be scum but I think it would be more likely someone on the wagon outside of the town block - i.e. Lalendra or Acryon.
Obviously I have a vested interest in this discussion, but this logic is heavily flawed. Why should someone outside of the townblock (which rb established himself) be any more likely to be scum than town based on that flip? Isn't it just as likely that rb was wrong about who he included in his townblock?

Lining up lynches this early in the game feels like a disaster waiting to happen.
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Post Post #818 (isolation #58) » Thu Jan 25, 2018 9:14 am

Post by acryon »

In post 817, Sauce wrote:
In post 815, Thor665 wrote:I would agree capitalized Day means Dayphase.
If you meant only Dayphase when capitalized and day when not - then what's your issue with Acro here exactly? Which is what I asked for clarification on.
viewtopic.php?p=9906645#p9906645
Then quote the segment where it's unclear where I'm referring to days and where to Days, because I've left no room for ambiguity, despite you suggesting the contrary again, i.e. lying.
I think his point of confusion is how, someone like you that is clearly so firm on Day being Dayphase and day being IRL day, read my post to mean Dayphase despite me using the lowercase form.
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Post Post #881 (isolation #59) » Mon Jan 29, 2018 1:53 am

Post by acryon »

In post 849, profii wrote:Good point on the not needing a double scum push. The first thing that springs to mind is eth0s town slip by mentioning the day chat thing.
While I still feel eth0s is likely town, "townslips" mean nothing and can easily be fabricated.
In post 849, profii wrote:After a quick skim of the thread, I think there is a distinct difference in Thor vs Saucy and Acryon vs Saucy.

I felt that Thor spent his time querying how Saucy applied the game logic and tried to make scum cases that way.

I felt that Acryon attacked Saucys toxic character more than his gameplay. Given Saucys toxicity was apparent very early on I'm going to...
Interesting. Would you mind linking to the posts where you think I was focusing more-so on his toxicity? I actually searched my posts for words like 'toxic', 'jerk', 'rude', and didn't find any, so I'm thinking you're misremembering. But I'm happy to hear you out if you find evidence to the contrary.
In post 855, rb wrote:Just so it's clear, I'm voting eth0s because he's the most fakely active player in the game and the claim to explain why the Sauce wagon is bad is just as fake active. He flipped town, we know it's bad - that helps us find scum how exactly?
His ISO is pretty much a case study in active lurking, although I'm not convinced that's scum here.
In post 876, profii wrote:the point was more asking eth0s do you think dunkers would be audacious enough to say he is wary of FL and then NK him or does he like to be subtle as a scum player.
You've gone down this line of thinking a few times profii, and I think it's fairly dangerous. Unless you have some heavy specific experience to suggest otherwise, we should be operating under the assumption that anyone is capable of anything.

Dunker and Lelendra are top 2 scumreads for me. I think Kop needs some heavy pressure today or we're going to be stuck with a nullslot that haunts the rest of the game.

VOTE: Kop
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Post Post #883 (isolation #60) » Mon Jan 29, 2018 2:34 am

Post by acryon »

In post 882, rb wrote:> dunker and lalendra are my top2 scumreads
*doesnt vote either of them*

dkskdkskkakdgjshhahwhdjkfkskzjflekddl
Let me phrase it like this. Dunker and Lalendra are my top 2 scumreads. Kop as a priority supersedes that because it's impossible to have a read one way or the other on him right now.
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Post Post #886 (isolation #61) » Mon Jan 29, 2018 3:03 am

Post by acryon »

In post 884, profii wrote:
In post 881, acryon wrote:
In post 849, profii wrote:Good point on the not needing a double scum push. The first thing that springs to mind is eth0s town slip by mentioning the day chat thing.
While I still feel eth0s is likely town, "townslips" mean nothing and can easily be fabricated.
what made you change your mind? - If I wasn't voting for you, you'd need a rather good explanation to stop me after that.
What changed my mind is that on page 2 of the game, the bar for giving someone credit for towniness or scuminess is significantly lower than it is on page 36. That's enough for me to move on from him and focus elsewhere at that point in the game, but at this point in the game I think we're beyond giving credit for it.
In post 885, profii wrote: I'm in agreement that gamblers fallacy is in effect with that theory, but without us following a cop, this game is about taking risks on what we believe about what other people are saying. I believe that is a huge risk for scum!dunk, so until the day pans out I'm starting from a town lean. It's no big thing, I just thought it was worth consideration
Fair.
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Post Post #889 (isolation #62) » Mon Jan 29, 2018 3:10 am

Post by acryon »

In post 888, Lalendra wrote:
In post 883, acryon wrote:
In post 882, rb wrote:> dunker and lalendra are my top2 scumreads
*doesnt vote either of them*

dkskdkskkakdgjshhahwhdjkfkskzjflekddl
Let me phrase it like this. Dunker and Lalendra are my top 2 scumreads. Kop as a priority supersedes that because it's impossible to have a read one way or the other on him right now.
Not sure I agree with this logic, I'd rather death tunnel someone I am sure is scum than pressure a lurker who is null. I doubt that he will respond to it.
Well I'm not sure you're scum. Lurkers are horrific for town for the reason you mentioned: they sit at null for everyone. And we have a whole day. There is plenty of time to pressure Kop to give some activity and get back to you and dunker if they look good.
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Post Post #895 (isolation #63) » Mon Jan 29, 2018 6:25 am

Post by acryon »

In post 893, profii wrote:@ Acryon - also fair.


@ Kop - I think he means IRL homework as apposed to reading up on how a lynch happened etc.

Pedit: Until this site I've never played where scum didn't have day chat so I guess I could be over reaching
Yeah I could be wrong, but from my experience on this site, scum only have night-chat more often than not.
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Post Post #896 (isolation #64) » Mon Jan 29, 2018 6:32 am

Post by acryon »

In post 894, Kop wrote:
In post 893, profii wrote:@ Acryon - also fair.


@ Kop - I think he means IRL homework as apposed to reading up on how a lynch happened etc.

Pedit: Until this site I've never played where scum didn't have day chat so I guess I could be over reaching
Yeah, misread it.

Take away the homework part of it, any explanation isn't really going to alter anything about the Sauce wagon tbf.
Since your slot was more or less gone the entire first day, can you give us a readslist?
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Post Post #904 (isolation #65) » Mon Jan 29, 2018 8:48 am

Post by acryon »

In post 901, rb wrote:On the other hand, every reason for a townread on him is pithy.
I won't disagree with you on this. However, I don't have enough of a reason to think he is scum to overcome my very strong gut read on him.
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Post Post #906 (isolation #66) » Mon Jan 29, 2018 9:05 am

Post by acryon »

In post 905, rb wrote:Gut read in what way though? Tone?

Which posts make your gut feel good? Because when I get gut reads there's still certain posts or interactions that I can't fully explain but I can reference for others to think about.
Yes, tone. Posts like specifically felt town to me (I know there's no reason to think a post like that is AI at all). The general demeanor just feels unlikely to come from scum to me. He doesn't seem to care that much about certain things. That may be to the detriment of the town, but it just doesn't feel like scum to me.
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Post Post #908 (isolation #67) » Mon Jan 29, 2018 9:20 am

Post by acryon »

In post 907, rb wrote:I think that's player specific. I appear to care less when I'm scum - what do you think about Dunkers saying eth0s is playing similar to a recent scum game?

If you think eth0s is town and we're getting this wrong, you need to mobilize sooner rather than later. Especially since Dunker is a top scumread of yours? You seem oddly infifferent to a lynch on someone you think is town, being pushed by someone you think is scum.
I generally give very little stock to meta reads. I know some disagree with that stance, but I think they can do more to tie people down to a specific read on a player than they can to actually help find scum.

One issue with dunker is that my other scumread is voting for him. The other issue is regarding meta (which aids me in my prior point). Dunker's lead reason to vote for eth0s is meta, which you can't really argue with. It's a slight step above a gutread to me.
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Post Post #912 (isolation #68) » Mon Jan 29, 2018 9:33 am

Post by acryon »

eth0s wrote:noooo.... we can get more info on kop as time goes by... you should definitely be voting your top scumreads here...
I'm not too proud to admit that I might be playing wrong. And Kop's entry hasn't pinged really.

VOTE: Dunker
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Post Post #914 (isolation #69) » Mon Jan 29, 2018 9:37 am

Post by acryon »

In post 913, eth0s wrote:
In post 912, acryon wrote:
eth0s wrote:noooo.... we can get more info on kop as time goes by... you should definitely be voting your top scumreads here...
I'm not too proud to admit that I might be playing wrong. And Kop's entry hasn't pinged really.

VOTE: Dunker
wait wut. Just realized Kop just replaced in. This is setting off more red flags.
VOTE: acryon
What does Kop replacing in have to do with anything?
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Post Post #918 (isolation #70) » Mon Jan 29, 2018 9:44 am

Post by acryon »

In post 916, eth0s wrote:So you were voting the guy who just replaced in because you couldn't read him? right.
Yes? Up to that point, we hadn't gotten a real post from him and no real assurance that he would provide us any. Votes generally help bring out the lurkers. Seems like he's not going to lurk so the pressure vote isn't necessary now.
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Post Post #928 (isolation #71) » Tue Jan 30, 2018 2:52 am

Post by acryon »

[spoiler="Large profii Post]
In post 921, profii wrote:Acryon- i promised a re-read, there were some posts where you were quite involved in Sauce and called him weird or scummy without any reasons, but in your ISO there is plenty of reads so I'll retract.

I think Lalendra summed up my point more succinctly than i can in

UNVOTE: Acryon



I did give some thought to Thor's suggestion that the scum split their votes on and off the lynch and I'm not sure I'm on board. I think scum NKs fall in to 3 categories:
1. Vote conservatively where it makes it hard for town to associate the kill with any player - usually this is very town read players.
2. Vote to try and direct a mis lynch. So, someone mentioned Lalendra scum read FL - maybe the scum want us to go there given Lalendra is getting a lot of lynchbait reads anyway and we just lynched someone for being toxic.
3. Vote someone who is a threat to scum. High risk because the link might be there, but the player must have either read the scum correctly or given away a PR breadcrumb or something like that.



Now, considering the game has 10 people, we know we needed 6 to lynch. Discount the victim, we need 6 of 9 players to be in agreement. Discount both scum and that's 6/7 players to mislynch. This would be tough for scum, so for me 1 scum is likely on the lynch. Now, that puts the math at 5/7 townsfolk to mislynch... still a bit of an ask, but they were helped by Saucy's toxicity, saying that a few players were suggesting he wasn't scum despite this, so to drive that lynch through do I think it was possible that scum went all in on the scum lynch? I do, actually.

This means 4/7 mislynching towns folk, a much more palatable proposition for scum to accomplish imo.


Now, we look at the lynch, scum picked a player not on the lynch. I think this is the least risky thing for them to do because if someone looks at the maths as per above and comes to the conclusion that 2 scum on the 6, if they kill there, its 2 out of 5, if the person who comes up with the theory is on the lynch, it then becomes 2v4 - a 50-50 chance of hitting scum, that would be great.


So i can see why the kill was kept off the lynch.


This strongly incriminates thor for suggesting 1on 1off and rushing Kop. Also, he was heavily involved in Sauce lynching, but that can't be given huge amounts of weight due to sauces own play, but never the less, i think it's a contribution.


VOTE: Thor665
[/spoiler]
I think your analysis is coming from the right place, but I think it's off-base. I'm actually with Thor on the votes. Remember that it's just as easy for a townie to genuinely get caught up in thinking someone is very much scum (speaking from recent experience here) as it is for scum to push a wagon on someone they know is town. So it's
very
easy to see where a lynch day 1 is all town and one scum. And then if we're willing to accept that as a very real possibility, the rest of the logic falls apart.

On Thor specifically, his theory doesn't incriminate him. The only way his theory can help us find scum is if Thor himself flips scum and then we could be fairly confident the other scum was also on the wagon, and he was trying to lead another mislynch today.
In post 926, rb wrote:Profii is likely town
Yes.
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Post Post #931 (isolation #72) » Tue Jan 30, 2018 3:27 am

Post by acryon »

In post 930, profii wrote:It seems risky to me that the scum put themselves in a position where we are at a 50/50 between Kop and eth0s, it also didn't seem unreasonable that out of 6/9 lynch scum could try and get away with 2 on and blag their way through day 2.

I'm aware it's gambling again but my first preference would be not to lynch Kop and eth0s at the moment. Kop still has a way to go to move from null to town for me though. eth0s, town lean from me as per last analysis.
But they only put us in that position if it's a fact that only one scum was on the wagon, which it isn't. I don't think I'm prepared to lynch off the wagon just because it's fairly likely that one scum stayed off the wagon. I think we still just have to look at scummy activity at this point.
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Post Post #935 (isolation #73) » Tue Jan 30, 2018 5:05 am

Post by acryon »

In post 934, Kop wrote:
In post 927, profii wrote:@Kop - you've spoken about eth0s but can you go into your scum read on Lalendra in more depth for me please?

A few players have said she is lynchbait naturally, were you aware of this and assuming you've seen those posts or were aware, what puts her beyond lynchbait into full scum read as opposed to your slight read on dunk?

ta
People have stated that she does appear to be lynch bait, but I read through her ISO, and a lot of it just appears to be empty, fencesitting and only speaking about the game state rather than trying to solve the game. Her vote on Sauce is weak, and the reaction to the fake hammer, strikes me as fake, and a complete over reaction to make it look like she genuinely cared that the hammer was dropped without a role claim. I don't genuinely believe that she believed in her own case against Sauce and had to fabricate a reason to get onto the wagon, and that wasn't actually 100% base that vote on this game, it had to be based off pretty much another game, so if I had to pin point scum on that wagon, Lalendra would be the place I'd be starting at.
Very happy to sheep this analysis.

It's especially interesting to see her call you out for your readslist seeming "sheepy" when her scumlist has more or less always lined up with the majority as far as I can tell.
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Post Post #950 (isolation #74) » Wed Jan 31, 2018 5:18 am

Post by acryon »

In post 947, Dunkerdoodles wrote:VOTE: lalandra
scum
Why did you switch off of eth0s? You seemed sure he was scum based on your metaread.
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Post Post #975 (isolation #75) » Thu Feb 01, 2018 2:27 am

Post by acryon »

In post 962, Dunkerdoodles wrote: literally OMGUS
you say i'm "full of shit" and playing exactly like last game which is exactly what i said about you
try and find real reasons to fake a scumread on me instead of just taking my reasons.
But is it OMGUS? eth0s is calling you out for lying about his play this game vs. last game, which you were using to fuel a scumread on him. Someone lying and using it to push someone seems like a pretty legit reason to me.
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Post Post #982 (isolation #76) » Thu Feb 01, 2018 9:05 am

Post by acryon »

FWIW I don't give much stock to meta, but for the sake of this argument I think it would be very incorrect to say that eth0s play is the same. His play in that game he seemed to be "trying" a lot more.
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Post Post #994 (isolation #77) » Fri Feb 02, 2018 7:31 am

Post by acryon »

In post 991, profii wrote:Interesting that you voted for the player you were already voting for there Lalendra.
Yeah this is odd. I know that lack of paying attention is generally NAI, but part of me thinks that specifically Lalendra would be paying a little more attention if she felt the stress of votes on her as scum.

@Mod: V/LA until Monday morning CST.
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Post Post #1017 (isolation #78) » Mon Feb 05, 2018 6:27 am

Post by acryon »

In post 1008, profii wrote:
Spoiler:
In post 845, Thor665 wrote:Very softly increasing my town read on Dunk and Eth0s.
Don't see much action from Lalendra.

But maybe she's townish too due to lack of action and being the counter? Eh, it's more vague there, but I don't see a particularly high value in Eth0s or Dunk scum going to start a counterwagon on her towards the end, moreso for Dunk than Eth0s as he also wasn't mindful of being on a mislynch wagon.

So probably one scum in acryon, rb, Dunk, Lalendra, profii
I don't think Sauce would require a double scum push for a lynch.
So we have eth0s and Kop as high odds for 1 scum amongst them.

VOTE: Kop

You were active at night because you weren't replaced.
How was the scum QT ;)
Anyone else content that was a bread crumb?
I agree, and nice catch, although as you mentioned later on, it just means she didn't submit a kill.
In post 1011, profii wrote:Scum killed Thor for a reason - he was an advocate for 1on1off theory and he was really pushing rb for his reads. Thor then got on the Dunker wagon.

I think the main consideration for scum is the 1on1off theory - if they kill Thor/leave me alive it makes you think the 1on1off is a threat to scum - this means subject to no cc on Eth0s and we take that at face value the logical lynch is Kop

However, if we wifom then we could say it’s a bluff and they were both on the lynches - this makes it Lalendra and Acryon


Now, I note Lal and Acryon were on both lynches. I also note I initially voted for Acryon and he got me to review and I did move off him. Unfortunately for him, I went for Thor which didn’t help a lynch. With the even numbers in this game I still think the majority was tough so I’m sticking with my 2on theory and sayings it’s Acryon and Lalendra
Thor is a very strong player with a lot of experience, which is enough reason for a kill IMO. Being in MyLo, I'd be more worried about scum using a kill to lead us into making bad decisions based on WIFOM.

The main thing that gave me pause with Lalendra was the interaction dunker was having with her, but now that he's flipped town, my reservations are mostly gone.

eth0s is 100% town. I've felt profii has been genuine for much of the game, leading me to believe he is still town. This leaves Kop and Lalendra. Lalendra is the most clear to me. Once Lal flips scum, it's likely Kop but can also see a scenario where I'm very upset with myself for letting profii lead me on.
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Post Post #1019 (isolation #79) » Mon Feb 05, 2018 6:33 am

Post by acryon »

In post 1018, eth0s wrote:
@mod request prod on kop
Yeah, makes it hard to win the game when there is a slot in the game that's near impossible to read because of activity :-\
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Post Post #1023 (isolation #80) » Mon Feb 05, 2018 7:50 am

Post by acryon »

In post 1020, profii wrote: @Acryon - interesting points. First time I’ve encountered Thor on this site so I’m not standing on ceremony - do you know Kop? Would he acknowledge Thor’s reputation?
I feel like I've maybe played with Kop once before. I've taken a couple long breaks from the site so it's hard to remember. But just looking at Thor's wiki you can tell how knowledgeable and experienced he is.
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Post Post #1030 (isolation #81) » Tue Feb 06, 2018 2:46 am

Post by acryon »

In post 1028, profii wrote:the purpose of that was the RB town block he called out was perfect, so revisiting my logic that we should have looked at
sauce
/lal/acryon given the entire thing was unlikely to be a entirely town driven thing, it supports a lynch on lal or acryon which is where my focus is right now

I'd made a case against acryon based on his interactions with saucy and i guess i let him lead me to thor, but interestingly, no one followed me, so i am going to look to see if anyone tried to bring me round to dunkers. i was pretty sure he was town though so would have been tough/obvious for scum to try anything...


Let's try and predict the game:


player: lynch choice 1: lynch choice 2

Profii: Acryon - Lalendra
eth0s: Lalendra - Acryon
Lalendra: Profii - eth0s
Acryon: Kop - Lalendra
Kop: Lalendra + ?

what else do we know. eth0s made a vig claim and we've had no cc. That's a good thing and puts more doubt on Lalendra.


I say we lay down votes if anyone else agrees?
My order would definitely Lalendra, then Kop.

Also,
no one should lay down votes
. There are 2 scum left and only 3 required to lynch. If town lays down even a single vote on another town and the scum are on at the same time that's GG.

We should speak entirely in hypothetical votes until the time comes when we're ready to pull the trigger for the day.
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Post Post #1033 (isolation #82) » Tue Feb 06, 2018 3:57 am

Post by acryon »

In post 1031, Lalendra wrote:That fact, in and of itself, should make you suspicious of the fact that there are 4 people who seem to agree on lynching me. Two of them are scum and two are misguided town.
It's very reasonable that scum would be bussing.
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Post Post #1035 (isolation #83) » Tue Feb 06, 2018 4:34 am

Post by acryon »

In post 1034, profii wrote:
In post 1031, Lalendra wrote:That fact, in and of itself, should make you suspicious of the fact that there are 4 people who seem to agree on lynching me. Two of them are scum and two are misguided town.
In post 1033, acryon wrote:
In post 1031, Lalendra wrote:That fact, in and of itself, should make you suspicious of the fact that there are 4 people who seem to agree on lynching me. Two of them are scum and two are misguided town.
It's very reasonable that scum would be bussing.
@Acryon, what do you want to see from the body of town players before we actually vote?

It seems clear that Lalendra is likely going today - I think explaining that eth0s read away will be tough based on the lack of counter claim so I don't anticipate anyone changing their view.

I suggest we do not speculate on night kills or tomorrows actions as we will only give scum clues on who is town blocking with each other and who they should kill.
I just hate the idea that we could potentially rush into a game-ending move. But people do seem fairly locked in.

I also think it doesn't make sense to speculate on NK or anything, but I do think everyone should get their reads out in the event they die.

@eth0s: Given Lalendra-scum, can you give an explanation on how your remaining reads shake out?
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Post Post #1037 (isolation #84) » Tue Feb 06, 2018 5:00 am

Post by acryon »

In post 1036, profii wrote:-eth0s, I suggest you don't explain your reads, on the basis if you provide any town block, scum will look to divide and conquer with tonight's NK.
I think this is being overly cautious to the detriment of town. If we don't talk about
anything
, we go into the last day of the game pretty blind.

Scum can already do what you're describing because they know on a base level where people's reads stand. Giving additional detail helps us more than them.
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Post Post #1039 (isolation #85) » Tue Feb 06, 2018 5:22 am

Post by acryon »

In post 1038, profii wrote:yeah but it could all change subject to the NK so why rush that
Because whoever gets NK won't get a chance to elaborate.
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Post Post #1045 (isolation #86) » Tue Feb 06, 2018 6:04 am

Post by acryon »

In post 1043, Lalendra wrote:
In post 1032, profii wrote:so what do you think about eth0s vig claim?

You are essentially saying 2 scum is eth0s + presumably me based on your previous comments, however given the uncontested claim, I think we can give eth0s town status fairly safely
Just because the claim is uncontested doesn't necessarily mean he's town. I also don't like the fact that he has popped in twice since he was asked to explain his choice and hasn't addressed the question.
I do agree with this.
In post 1044, Lalendra wrote:5 players, 2 scum and 3 town; town gets lynched and another gets NK'ed, isn't that end of game, town loses?

Might as well claim since everyone seems to suspect me. I'm VT. That's why earlier I said I am not the worst lynch, but certainly not the best. (i.e. not a PR, but also not scum.)
Well actually if you are in fact town, you are the worst lynch. All town lynches at this point are equally bad because we auto-lose.
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Post Post #1051 (isolation #87) » Tue Feb 06, 2018 9:27 am

Post by acryon »

In post 1049, eth0s wrote:I don't need to explain my choice on rb. That doesn't make me scummy.
It doesn't necessarily make you scummy, but I do think it's anti-town to withhold that information. You're giving people a reason to doubt your claim.
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Post Post #1058 (isolation #88) » Wed Feb 07, 2018 8:15 am

Post by acryon »

In post 1057, eth0s wrote: Can't really argue with that because I I think we really need to take our time on this next lynch though. Especially since kop hasn't talked much this game
This.
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Post Post #1061 (isolation #89) » Wed Feb 07, 2018 8:59 am

Post by acryon »

In post 1059, eth0s wrote:
In post 1058, acryon wrote:
In post 1057, eth0s wrote: I think we really need to take our time on this next lynch though. Especially since kop hasn't talked much this game
This.
please explain to me how you messed my quote up like that
:lol: Sorry I am at work and must have posted something I was saying elsewhere into your quote without realizing. Fixed above.
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Post Post #1062 (isolation #90) » Wed Feb 07, 2018 8:59 am

Post by acryon »

In post 1060, profii wrote:I’m all for this but kop needs to help us move the game along at this point
Yeah I think he's due for a prod around now.
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Post Post #1064 (isolation #91) » Wed Feb 07, 2018 9:18 am

Post by acryon »

In post 1063, profii wrote:Eth0s- note that you said you aren’t 100% on kop
You said you were going to shoot him and Acryon doesn’t care
I wouldn't say I don't care, but in weighing how I was going to respond to that, I figured it was likely better to just let it go for now and we can talk about it later after we sort out today better.
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Post Post #1067 (isolation #92) » Wed Feb 07, 2018 9:37 am

Post by acryon »

In post 1066, profii wrote:What? The game is at 0mph right now

What is left to sort? Everyone has given a read and it looks like Lalendra could easily have been lynched

I’m ready to place a vote on you first or if town still really want to go with Laleandra I’m confident we’ve found the scum team


The reason you’ve just moved into number 1 spot is I’m confident there is a vig based on 2 kills. I’m happy it’s eth0s based on no cc
I’m really concerned that eth0s claimed 2 shot and intent to fire on a player and you didn’t react to it. The only saving grace is you _did_ scum read him which is probably the only thing making me hesitate putting a vote in
Well to be quite honest I think he is likely only 1-shot, and I think he's claiming what he is to try and get the lynches he thinks are correct.

And we have heard very very little from Kop. That's what's left to sort. Reminder that we don't get another chance at being wrong.
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Post Post #1070 (isolation #93) » Wed Feb 07, 2018 9:50 am

Post by acryon »

In post 1068, eth0s wrote:acryon is 99% scum in my head. Lale I'm not
quite
as convinced on, but if acryon flips red I will still shoot them.
Why do you think I'm scum?
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Post Post #1072 (isolation #94) » Wed Feb 07, 2018 10:15 am

Post by acryon »

In post 1071, profii wrote:i thought it was a reaction test too but I’d say you failed
That's fine. In most cases avoid engaging people on their scumreads of me. As town or scum, I'd rather not call attention to it especially when defenses don't get you anywhere. If someone makes a case for me, I try to just let my body of work speak for me.

Obviously a bit different now that I now have 40% of the game scumreading me. And the fact that it's the two people I think are town, that doesn't bode well.
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Post Post #1076 (isolation #95) » Wed Feb 07, 2018 10:46 am

Post by acryon »

In post 1074, eth0s wrote:
In post 345, acryon wrote:
In post 315, rb wrote:VOTE: eth0s

If Sauce is scum, he'll never win the game. I'd rather lynch this.
Eh, people forget easily. Usually near-lynches take quite some time to complete on future days, if they ever do.
So a near lynch is a bad idea? This can also be read as "let's lynch sauce now while he is in the spotlight". I could see this being a play to get a quicklynch rolling on sauce before he has a chance to start being useful. Or something along those lines
Near-lynches are not bad ideas. But stopping a near-lynch because you think it'll get done at a later date is silly (and scummy). If anything, scum would be incentivized to slow down someone like Sauce's wagon because he could be an easy lynch in a later day.
In post 1074, eth0s wrote:
In post 950, acryon wrote:
In post 947, Dunkerdoodles wrote:VOTE: lalandra
scum
Why did you switch off of eth0s? You seemed sure he was scum based on your metaread.
"Why did you switch off the guy I'm townreading for the guy I'm scumreading?" ...
Or this is me showing the town dunk was flip-flopping without reason.
In post 1074, eth0s wrote:
Also,
no one should lay down votes
. There are 2 scum left and only 3 required to lynch. If town lays down even a single vote on another town and the scum are on at the same time that's GG.
Do I really have to explain this again? If a townie places a
single
vote on another townie and the scum are both around/lurking, it’s
game over
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Post Post #1078 (isolation #96) » Wed Feb 07, 2018 11:15 am

Post by acryon »

In post 1077, eth0s wrote:When are you going to explain why you have been scumreading lalendra all game but your only reasoning has been blatantly hypocritical?
The content has felt like fluff to me, with no real effort for scumhunting. Admittedly, my scum-read for most of the game on Lalendra has been primarily gut. The reason I feel Lal is scum now is these things in addition to POE.

I can't control what you think of my posts, but I don't think the way I've described Lal's style is an accurate way to describe how I've played.
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Post Post #1080 (isolation #97) » Wed Feb 07, 2018 11:25 am

Post by acryon »

In post 1079, eth0s wrote:I can agree that it's possible I cherry picked thru your ISO, but I urge all townies to read your ISO and see what they think.
I urge all townies to do this for everyone, except for you.
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Post Post #1082 (isolation #98) » Wed Feb 07, 2018 11:36 am

Post by acryon »

In post 1081, eth0s wrote:I feel like this game would be a lot better without a lurker slot tbh
100%
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Post Post #1089 (isolation #99) » Thu Feb 08, 2018 2:19 am

Post by acryon »

Eh I think at this point in the game, there's no way we can win unless we operate under the assumption that eth0s is town, and that it's true.

It
is
theoretically within the realm of possibility that scum would fakeclaim something like vig, but it's just soooo risky. And likely unnecessary IMO.

But the bottom line is my first point. I think we are just forced into accepting his claim, because that's the only reasonable way we win.
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Post Post #1099 (isolation #100) » Fri Feb 09, 2018 3:14 am

Post by acryon »

In post 1098, profii wrote:So Lalendra.

Who is the most scummy out of me / eth0s / acryon.

I'm of the opinion we dont reveal any further information than today's lynch choice to scum so they can't try and divide any town blocks we might have in our minds so I am only looking for 1 name here.
I definitely side with eth0s on the way he's played his PR claim. Scum absolutely
has
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So I don't get withholding info when we know who they'll kill tonight.
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Post Post #1105 (isolation #101) » Fri Feb 09, 2018 3:50 am

Post by acryon »

In post 1103, profii wrote:I think you are right that eth0s will die.

But, were you in the game with Derpy Serial Killer where he shot the scum and the scum shot him back and they both died for town win.

Will that not be the case with tonight if eth0s is 2 shot?
If we lynch scum today and he is right about the other one, then yes.
Lalendra wrote:And yes, I understand that if he's town, that means we lose. But we run that risk with anyone that we lynch at this point. His lack of contribution is really hurting town and the fact that he hasn't either played or replaced out at this point in the game makes me think that he is scum and he is
deliberately
sabotaging us, trying to fly under the radar until we lynch the wrong person.
I do get your point, but no votes should be placed until we are ready to end the day. The gambit is too risky.
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Post Post #1107 (isolation #102) » Fri Feb 09, 2018 4:06 am

Post by acryon »

Obviously I have a vested interest in it since he said he would target me, but I think it's too risky and he shouldn't shoot, because then we're leaving the game in the hands of one person's reads (whatever they are).
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Post Post #1110 (isolation #103) » Fri Feb 09, 2018 7:30 am

Post by acryon »

In post 1109, Lalendra wrote:Wait, who said anything about a SK?

And that's my problem with Kop. At this point it feels like he is deliberately not contributing.

If we lynch me, and eth0s shoots Acry (who I believe is town, and at any rate they're def not scumbuddies), then we lose. If we lynch me and eth0s shoots scum, we have a shot.

idk, I know we can't proceed without Kop, but as this point I'm really concerned we will have to, and then what do we do.
If we lynch you, and you are town, we lose. Because even if eth0s shoots scum, scum kill him and it's left with 1 scum and 1 town.
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Post Post #1113 (isolation #104) » Fri Feb 09, 2018 10:52 am

Post by acryon »

@Mod:
V/LA until Monday morning CST.
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Post Post #1132 (isolation #105) » Mon Feb 12, 2018 2:31 am

Post by acryon »

My defense is my play. I think the only thing I'm guilty of is being wrong, as we all have been. I do think I've added meaningful content, and tried to lead the town toward scum.
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Post Post #1149 (isolation #106) » Tue Feb 13, 2018 3:22 am

Post by acryon »

In post 1146, eth0s wrote:Cant sleep so I'm sorting thru ISOs on my laptop in bed.
In post 18, hyung wrote:VOTE: Lalendra
In post 619, hyung wrote:VOTE: profii symbolic vote because I need to replace out.

It's probably been clear to all of you, but I obviously don't have any time for this game right now! Sorry :(
do these posts mean anything to anyone?

goddamn I hate having a slot in the game that has 20 posts across 2 different people playing the slot...
Not really. The slot is just about impossible to read at this point. Even Kop provided very little content. FWIW, his posts didn't necessarily ping me as scum, but I had it set in my head that profii was town so he was scum by POE.
In post 1147, eth0s wrote:Holy shit is it really Profii and Lalendra? It almost seems too easy.
All town need to read through Thor's ISO ASAP. I should have a long time ago. I hope I can read thru everyone's ISO in the next 24 hrs because I haven't really had the time lately and I am quickly seeing how important it is to look at what the active, dead townies were thinking.
Yeah I'm having a hard time finding anything to direct me. In the same post where he voted for Kop, he said there was likely one scum in acryon, rb, Dunk, Lalendra, and profii. So unfortunately literally everyone besides you would have a reason to kill Thor.

I've been pretty set on my profii-town read, but maybe I've been giving too much credit there? His whole SK thing was pretty bad, especially if he is scum, but I more or less read it through the lens I had been, which was a townie speculating on anything and everything to try and figure things out.

Still feels like it's probably Lalendra/Kop though.
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Post Post #1151 (isolation #107) » Tue Feb 13, 2018 3:36 am

Post by acryon »

In post 1150, Lalendra wrote:
In post 1149, acryon wrote:Still feels like it's probably Lalendra/Kop though.
Then lynch Kop with me first so we actually make it to tomorrow.
Well I am much more confident on you than I am Kop. My Kop read is mostly just due to PoE.
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Post Post #1154 (isolation #108) » Tue Feb 13, 2018 6:20 am

Post by acryon »

In post 1153, profii wrote:I really wanna vote Lal but don’t want to set a rush off :(
Same
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Post Post #1172 (isolation #109) » Wed Feb 14, 2018 5:22 am

Post by acryon »

In post 1171, profii wrote:if we mislynch we lose so I think that's mylo (not lylo? I always get confused :( )
Technically it's LyLo. MyLo is the same as LyLo except that you can theoretically no-lynch and go to LyLo the next day. We don't have that luxury.
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Post Post #1190 (isolation #110) » Thu Feb 15, 2018 5:06 am

Post by acryon »

@Mod:
I am fortunately am going to be on V/LA until Monday morning CST. So I'll be back ~12 hours before deadline.

Glad we have a replacement who seems engaged. My reads haven't changed.
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Post Post #1217 (isolation #111) » Fri Feb 16, 2018 11:58 am

Post by acryon »

VOTE: Lalendra
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Post Post #1224 (isolation #112) » Fri Feb 16, 2018 12:03 pm

Post by acryon »

Not a fake V/LA. I only really play during downtime at work during the week, but I check in periodically to read on the weekends but rarely post so I always make sure to be on V/LA so I don't get booted. Wasn't my intent to deceive in that way.
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Post Post #1253 (isolation #113) » Fri Feb 16, 2018 3:10 pm

Post by acryon »

Gg guys. And mod, you can release the scum PT. Not much there for obvious reasons lol
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Post Post #1259 (isolation #114) » Sat Feb 17, 2018 12:45 am

Post by acryon »

FWIW, I actually did react really badly to his gambit saying he was going to shoot me. Fighting it too much would've been suspicious, but letting it go was also super sketch. You picked up on that profii but thankfully dropped it.

So I do think his gambit had the potential to be successful.
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Post Post #1263 (isolation #115) » Sat Feb 17, 2018 10:00 am

Post by acryon »

In post 1262, Sauce wrote:
In post 1245, Archwing wrote:Originally I thought this may be townsided, given no scum PRs. Apparently not true! I think Sauce on d1 threw town into a downward spiral, which lead to a very quick d2, thus leading to LyLo.
So while hunting scum I got a little caught up calling out falsehoods and provocations, nevertheless arrived at the conclusion that acryon should be lynched. Which truth-defying affirmations have I been wrong to set straight? If it was the manner I did it in that -- by your "astute" assessment -- caused "the spiral", I'll have you know the ratio of times in which I snapped at my provocateurs to those I kept my cool while addressing their lies and provocations is quite low.

Btw, the setup has a decent 1 scum to 3.5 town ratio. The bodyguard has a very small random chance of actually protecting mafia, and is otherwise pretty useless for town without a doc or cop. The tracker has a small random chance of catching the mafia shooter. The 1-shot vig has a higher random chance of killing town than mafia. Daytalk advantageous no matter what, and these are the factors that determine whether a setup is townsided or not.
An intelligent person wouldn't judge the balance of a setup by a single rendition, let alone summarize and conclude that the supposed negative performance of a single player was to blame for a supposed counterintuitive rearrangement of said balance.

I can't control the remaining town players into lynching the prime scumspect of the first two flipped townies.
Your first post after the game and you insult the entire player base and the mod.

Truly handling the loss with grace.

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