Micro 772: Jester Nightless
- Mathdino
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Mathdino Survivor
- Mathdino
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Interesting play. Setting yourself up as lynchbait and, if you're scum, trying to "conftown" yourself.
The problem for you from a town perspective is that by saying "LYNCH WHOMEVER HAMMERS ME", you've basically nulled/WIFOM'd that vote analysis because scum now has to wait for town to hammer you. But wait, that means only town would hammer you, so it's in scum's best interest to hammer you. But wait...
You see where I'm going. You've clearly thought this out and on most other sites I can see that being a great scumplay. But as it is, I can't in good conscience NOT vote a self-voter, and the fact that you're specifically framing it as "lynch whomever votes me" instead of "I'll die, just get Mathdino tomorrow" really strikes me as more scum motivated than town motivated. Because if it's coming from town, you're not gonna get anything out of this, and I feel like you'd have realised that.
You cool too tho. I agree on defusing the page-long 1v1 but it's cool if you respond to the above new accusation. Your call.- eth0s
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eth0s Mafia Scum
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I'm not saying to lynch whoever hammers me, though. This is an alternative to potentially lynching another townie, then being left with 3 people who all voted for said townie. This allows for a little bit more guided votes in lylo, I think. If you read my post thoroughly, you will see that I have acknowledged that scum could hammer me and get away with it. I'm not looking to be conftown. Conftown me after I die. What I'm looking for is any last little bit of scum slip. Any piece of knowledge that the 2 remaining can use without clogging everyone's head with 10 pages of back and forth arguing. Let's let everyone think for themselves.
If I'm right about you, why even say this? If your purpose was to score townpoints with me (unlikely) then you succeeded. But if I were any townie but me, I would be wondering why you would bother pointing out that you feel you're making the right choice, when your vote was already there beforehand... It's not like I voted myself to get things started. I already had pressure. Now it kind of sounds like you are scared of what people might think of you after my flip, but you're in a position where you can't move your vote off of me without seeming a little suspicious. After all, why would a townie remove his vote after his target votes himself?In post 425, Mathdino wrote:But as it is, I can't in good conscience NOT vote a self-voter,it's a zero in my name (for PM purposes etc)- eth0s
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eth0s Mafia Scum
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If I'm not dead by the time I wake up in real-life tomorrow, I might reconsider my actions. But as of right now I don't see anything that shouts scum so loud that I just have to vote it. Surely if this fails, and maybe even if it succeeds, I will be called a game thrower. And maybe this will make me one, who knows. But I'm not going to let my fear of that keep me from doing what seems right in this moment.it's a zero in my name (for PM purposes etc)- Mathdino
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Mathdino Survivor
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1. ok. This does unfortunately null a lot of the coming behaviour from Jay and SS.
2. Kinda trying to figure out what you're saying here.
You're reading genuine, so part of me wants to reevaluate. But letting you live sets the precedent that anti-town moves can be used to conf-town oneself. That's how N_M-scum won in the game where we didn't lynch him, and that's a major reason I wanted to immediately policy him when I figured he wasn't jester. Leaving him alive on the basis that scum wouldn't do that would be significantly more dangerous.
But it seems like you're asking me why I said that, and also why I said that if I'm scum? I said that just as a "my vote stands". And indicating to you that self-voting isn't a good scumplay on this site because I think most people have that "eugh, self-voting" reaction. Hell, in one game, some townie that I was initially townreading went and hammered himself out of frustration. Due to mod error, it wasn't counted as a hammer, so I went in there and rehammered him just in case, partially on principle.
So I think what you're suggesting is that scum-me wants to save face after you theoretically flip town, and so I'm distancing myself from my own vote while keeping my vote on you to look like a townie?
I'm having trouble understanding what you think my trajectory here is and how that makes sense for scum-me tbh. If you're actually town, I think you might be in confbias mode, where every post I make has some kind of scum motivation in it that you can pick apart. So watch out for that in general I guess.
But tbh the last time I was tunneled in this way they flipped scum so this convo might all be for naught. If you flip scum, it's gonna be an interesting conversation postgame, because I do wanna talk about the strategy you're using rn.- eth0s
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eth0s Mafia Scum
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God dammit Dino. You're either genius scum or a very genuine townie. Now I need to think this whole thing over. One step forward and two steps back, I guess. If you're scum I'm going to be so fucking mad lmao. Yes, I did exaggerate my scum-read on you to gauge your response. And if you're wondering, yes, part of the reason I self-voted was a reaction test. But if you're scum, you gave me nothing to work with and so here I am falling back on reads that I had pages ago. I thought about what you said with confbias so I am going to let off of this tunnel for now. Much gratitude to town!dino and a huge fuck you to scum!dino.
UNVOTE:
VOTE: Something_Smart
spectrum:
eth0s
jay
dino
S_S
HOLY FUCK. JAY ISN'T MAFIA. JAY CAN'T BE MAFIA. How the fuck did I just realize this. Sadly jay is probably scumreading me even harder than dino is but I think I just cracked this thing. Jayspearheadedthe not_maf lynch... why in the fuck would you do that if he was your partner? You don't second-vote your teammate d1 on a policy lynch. Not even in this setup would you do something that ridiculous. Sure there is the WIFOM aspect, but you really think that scum's first move would be to kill one of their own under no pressure? Sure, Not_Maf probably wasn't playing his win condition, and likely wanted to see a jester victory, but still. town!jay makes town!dino so very fucking likely that the subtle hints that S_S has been dropping all game just turned into hard evidence.
I know for damn sure he wasn't bussing me. Highly doubting that he was bussing you, dino. Neither of us were jester clearly. If I'm right and troll!Not_Maf wanted to see a jester win, he would have been calling out his topIn post 74, Not_Mafia wrote: Okay so you're not scumhunting, cool got it. Ethos and Mathdino, you're welcome town, lynch me out of gratitude?jesterreads right there. 99% sure he was excluding his teammate. He was definitely trolling, but I believe he had a plan. And the funniest outcome that would get the best reactions would probably be not_maf being able to claim that he helped jester win.it's a zero in my name (for PM purposes etc)- Something_Smart
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Something_Smart He/himSomewhat_Balanced
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- JaydragonKing
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JaydragonKing Mafia Scum
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- JaydragonKing
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JaydragonKing Mafia Scum
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- Something_Smart
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Something_Smart He/himSomewhat_Balanced
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No, I think it's primarily playstyle. A lot of people, town and scum, get lynch-happy in nightless games. And the Heartless hammer was risky no matter your alignment.In post 419, eth0s wrote:@Something_Smart: do you view my past couple hammers as scummy? Why or why not?- JaydragonKing
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JaydragonKing Mafia Scum
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- Mathdino
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Mathdino Survivor
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sup ok
I read ethos's post last night and I was like "wtf i'm not responding to this until I see thoughts from other people" because ethos's train of thought is legitimately difficult for me to decipher sometimes.
And then I find that you two didn't comment on me vs ethos at all.
brb answering SS's question
but yeah please do comment on all that shit
jay answer my question that i asked you yesterpage- JaydragonKing
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JaydragonKing Mafia Scum
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I'm going to assume the question between who I think between Smart and Ethos who's more scummy?
Looking back at everything.... And how fast Ethos ended day 4 with that lol hammer... I'd be more inclined to hang him, especially because he probably bluffed with the self vote.
Him attacking you also slightly contributes to that though.- Something_Smart
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Something_Smart He/himSomewhat_Balanced
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I wasn't the one who made that decision. I voted the only person I didn't townread based off of interactions with Not_Mafia.In post 434, JaydragonKing wrote:Smart, I wasn't here, but how in the hell did you guys decide to fucking hang Sheep in an hour? Day four is less then a page long and he was legit murdered in such a short period.
Please tell me you can't see why it's either you or Ethos in that situation.
If you want to understand the hammer, ask eth0s, but I would assume he felt the same way.
And by the way Math, I will comment. I'm just waiting for you to answer my question before I say anything.- JaydragonKing
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JaydragonKing Mafia Scum
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This post also makes me feel weird about it too, with especially calling me out.In post 429, eth0s wrote:God dammit Dino. You're either genius scum or a very genuine townie. Now I need to think this whole thing over. One step forward and two steps back, I guess. If you're scum I'm going to be so fucking mad lmao. Yes, I did exaggerate my scum-read on you to gauge your response. And if you're wondering, yes, part of the reason I self-voted was a reaction test. But if you're scum, you gave me nothing to work with and so here I am falling back on reads that I had pages ago. I thought about what you said with confbias so I am going to let off of this tunnel for now. Much gratitude to town!dino and a huge fuck you to scum!dino.
UNVOTE:
VOTE: Something_Smart
spectrum:
eth0s
jay
dino
S_S
HOLY FUCK. JAY ISN'T MAFIA. JAY CAN'T BE MAFIA. How the fuck did I just realize this. Sadly jay is probably scumreading me even harder than dino is but I think I just cracked this thing. Jayspearheadedthe not_maf lynch... why in the fuck would you do that if he was your partner? You don't second-vote your teammate d1 on a policy lynch. Not even in this setup would you do something that ridiculous. Sure there is the WIFOM aspect, but you really think that scum's first move would be to kill one of their own under no pressure? Sure, Not_Maf probably wasn't playing his win condition, and likely wanted to see a jester victory, but still. town!jay makes town!dino so very fucking likely that the subtle hints that S_S has been dropping all game just turned into hard evidence.
I know for damn sure he wasn't bussing me. Highly doubting that he was bussing you, dino. Neither of us were jester clearly. If I'm right and troll!Not_Maf wanted to see a jester win, he would have been calling out his topIn post 74, Not_Mafia wrote: Okay so you're not scumhunting, cool got it. Ethos and Mathdino, you're welcome town, lynch me out of gratitude?jesterreads right there. 99% sure he was excluding his teammate. He was definitely trolling, but I believe he had a plan. And the funniest outcome that would get the best reactions would probably be not_maf being able to claim that he helped jester win.
Final verdict: 70-29-1% for Ethos-Smart-Dino respectively.- Something_Smart
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Something_Smart He/himSomewhat_Balanced
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- Mathdino
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Mathdino Survivor
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Incoming wall.In post 430, Something_Smart wrote:Math. Explain your read progression on me.
You townread me day 1, then you scumread me day 2, then you jester-read me day 3, and now you townread me again. Why?
Spoiler: My Progression (or lack thereof) on SS
tl;dr you're hard to read, for D1-D3 I was mostly concerned with "oh god is he jester" (and even then, you're hard to read) and D4-D5 i was always more concerned with something else
i still have not figured out a lot of the things i was "wtf"ing with regard to your play
so that's what today is for i guess- Mathdino
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Mathdino Survivor
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Okay cool.
Jay actually giving a shit about who we lynch today is town-indicative I think.
@ethos: that's why I asked the question, was a reaction test fishing for "eh let's just lynch them both in whatever order".
and hot damn i really do not want to get to lylo with "queen of scum winning" elsa- Something_Smart
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Something_Smart He/himSomewhat_Balanced
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- Mathdino
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Mathdino Survivor
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1. Jay brags in many games about how every time he makes it to LyLo scum wins.
Strangely, every time I make it to LyLo as town, town wins.
So I'm wondering if it cancels out but I would really prefer not to find out.
2. It was the way in which you stalled it. I would've been okay if you were like HEY GUYS THIS IS LIKELY JESTER and you might've gotten me to believe you. But you (IIRC) argued that it was within N_M's meta to be a shithead and I was like "YEAH THAT'S LITERALLY THE POINT".
I like policy lynching people. I didn't only join it because I was bored. I stopped not-being-on-it because I was bored, figured he was gonna get lynched anyway, and he was more likely than not, not jester. I was ready to lynch his ass out the gate.
I heavily suspect he knew I would try to lynch him and acted as jester as possible because he knew that's the only situation in which I wouldn't try to immediately policy him.
Regardless, his scum flip didn't reflect well on you at all, and I agreed with NK15 that you were either scumbuddies or jester trying to be in people's way.- Something_Smart
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Something_Smart He/himSomewhat_Balanced
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But if your reason for the lynch was merely policy and not that you actually thought he was scum, wouldn't my disagreement with your reasons for policy also not be alignment indicative?In post 443, Mathdino wrote:Regardless, his scum flip didn't reflect well on you at all, and I agreed with NK15 that you were either scumbuddies or jester trying to be in people's way.
(Although, that is not even the reason I cited for resisting the policy lynch. I resisted it because I had a legitimate townread on him when everyone else was taking his trolling meta to mean that reading him was impossible.)- Something_Smart
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Something_Smart He/himSomewhat_Balanced
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- Mathdino
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Mathdino Survivor
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What?
I see no reason that "defending your buddy from a policy lynch" is non-alignment-indicative.
And ok, I didn't go back to check, but that's honestly worse, lol.
Edit: brb gonna go check- Something_Smart
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Something_Smart He/himSomewhat_Balanced
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- Mathdino
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Mathdino Survivor
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In post 17, eth0s wrote:Ohhhh shiiiiiet jester is my favorite role ))))In post 19, eth0s wrote:I'm not the jester please stop harassing me......In post 20, Not_Mafia wrote:Someone's sensitive, goon much?In post 27, eth0s wrote:Wait I just realized I am the jester my badIn post 28, Not_Mafia wrote:Wait I just realised you're full of shit my badIn post 29, Not_Mafia wrote:eth0s who's your partner?In post 30, eth0s wrote:You're saying that like you don't knowIn post 31, eth0s wrote:Shit I thought this was the mafia PTI don't think they planned this out beforehand. Reads more as an impromptu elaborate LOL FUCK IT THIS IS A JESTER GAME LET'S DO THE MOST OUTLANDISH THINGS POSSIBLE distancing play. I think ethos realised that due to both of them claiming jester, one of them would have to go, and chose to go for max towncred.
- Mathdino
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Mathdino Survivor
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I don't think you expected him to die on D1.In post 447, Something_Smart wrote:Do you think scum-me expected me and Not_Mafia to both live to endgame?
Otherwise I wasn't really thinking about this so idk what you're asking. - Mathdino
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