In post 396, Elmo TeH AzN wrote:Well this happened. So there's a Vig. Nice shot btw.
I FoS you for being the one to spot this as scummy btw. More on this later.In post 400, Sleepless Assassin wrote:Because assemble flipped town, we should be lynching in the pool of players on the wagon. How could scum possibly resist such an easy Lynch? Toneis dead town. Almost chara is IC. Havingfitz is dead non-mafia. I doubt anyone can tell me with a straight face scum stayed off the wagon. I'm fully aware that leaves myself and my scum reads. Elmo and chip are the best lynches. Schism might be a decent compromise but I don't think we'll get to that point.
Also whoever is good at setup stuff should try to figure stuff out with the cop flip and vig shot. The one thing I can figure out on my own is that a vig claim would confirm someone as town barring a counter claim. My opinion is they shouldn't claim until LYLO unless they'd otherwise be lynched.
vote Elmo
You failed.In post 403, Elmo TeH AzN wrote:So any reasons behind this vote aside to just sheep?
Going to FOS someone then vote someone else just because of something I said?
Bravo. *golf clap*
It is very observant and logical play, which makes sense if we take your start date into account. In my experience however, those who point out the elaborate reasons are usually misdirecting the attention away from what was really, their guilty admission if that makes sense?In post 405, Sleepless Assassin wrote:Lol what? I'd hope I'd be able to spot it as long as I've been playing mafia.
If you don't know who the vig shot then why bother to congratulate him? How is that a joke? How is a joke good enough reasoning for your obv. TMI slip?In post 407, Elmo TeH AzN wrote:2. I don't know who the vig shot. How would I know? Ironic there were 3 deaths and since this isn't multiball it leaves me to show there was a vig shot. Anyone who knows me knows I would make the snarky remark no matter what happened the next day. But glad to see you can take a joke.
In post 411, Sleepless Assassin wrote:There isn't anything elaborate about scum jumping on an easy mislynch.
cheek wrote:
TMI slip?
Ehhhhhh maybe? But that's probably a stretch. Havingfitz obviously didn't shoot himself so it was either vig or scum. It's unlikely that scum shot the guy who almost got lynched instead of assemble. So odds are it was the vig shot. Elmos post seems to just assume that the vig shot havingfitz which could be because she knows who scum shot. But like I said it's not exactly rocket science to figure out who shot him.
...check out his ISO. Tell me if you can figure out his reads. This guy has been cruising the whole game, waffling and making points about nothing important/AI. When he did decide to look into people's ISOs he chose the two shortest to analyze. If this isn't scum positioning/fencesitting I don't know what is...In post 415, Jodaxq wrote:I didn't notice before that Dave voted for ToneReader early just as a way to show disapproval of the gimmick and then never moved his vote. That's certainly interesting. Why did you choose to avoid both wagons, Dave? Why did you not move your vote off of Tone?
If anyone tells me this is a townie reaction I'm going to use the force to shrivel their brain further.In post 421, davesaz wrote:I got nothing.In post 417, CheekyTeeky wrote: @Dave: readslist please bruh.
*uses the force on dave*In post 425, davesaz wrote:If you think a little, that canonlybe a townie reaction.
Hint: what alignment makes shit up? What alignment is best served with the truth?
What content he has contributed is bothering me, not so much the lack of it. I can't find townie intent in his posts which leads me to believe it's because he's not town. Lack of reads is fine but the lack of pushes and insight is not. I would say he's improved since my vote on him but when I read his NKA posts, even though I agree with them, I still find hedging against making any kind of solid read. Like he says x implicates y because z which is awesome and supertown but then he goes oh wait I can't use solely NKA to get my reads and leaves it there. I believe town would then make some kind of attempt to sort those slots he just PoE'd down by digging through ISOs or even just stating he suspects those people are scum. Instead I'm left with what looks like scum positioning, leaving a wide lynching range open without committing to suspeced scum reads.In post 442, Sleepless Assassin wrote:Is the case on Dave anything that can't be explained by him being busy during the holidays?
Yeah if you look closely at Schism's 176:In post 447, davesaz wrote:Hell yeah, Schism is probably scum.
Check out this interaction. I'll spoiler to cut down on the vertical space.
(Snip)
I think north caught Schism here and that's what drove the kill selection.
Need to go back to reading Schism's iso to see how the rest of it went.
My problem with the case on Chip that schism made is that it neglects assembles meta. Most people have experienced a game with assemble at some point and it's pretty obvious he's consistently lurksack mislynch bait. It's not AI to assume assemble is going to flip town off of 4 posts.In post 487, Elmo TeH AzN wrote:tl;dr Chip is scum.In post 486, Sleepless Assassin wrote:I don't have time to read 483 so I'll do that next time.
Hey guys, can we discuss this quote? I just started going through ISO's again and Chip's very first post always comes from town for me. Schism what do you think about this quote? How do you see this coming from scum?In post 37, Chip Butty wrote:No information for later.In post 32, davesaz wrote:Jodaxq, why the self vote in RVS?
VOTE: Jodaxq
Which is a total BS response. It kind of makes sense that you would push Assemble (easy mislynch) when a lot of negative attention was on you and enough people were lurking not to change their opinions without someone tunneling them into it. If the former is true, now Schism is pushing for another mislynch on another easy target who is inactive Chip (who was very suspicious of you), with a case based on Chip defending Assemble as town so therefore must've known his alignment pre-flip, when Schism also admitted Assemble could have been town so... so far textbook powerwolf play. It also makes sense that you're trying to scum read me after I push on you, but not actually push me back because you know I'm not such an easy target.In post 363, Chip Butty wrote:Either way, what in those four posts gives you any conviction?In post 362, Schism wrote:Pretty sure I said its scum, and in the rare case im wrong, im not losing sleep over it.
But that's not AI for Assemble either? He's derpy and inattentive in general, which should actually come across as NOT scummy. Scum actually have to try to win the game when there are good town players around like Sleepless, AC and NSG (sorry I'm not familiar with the rest of you) around. I'd be far more suspect of Assemble if he was active and actually relevant.In post 499, Elmo TeH AzN wrote:Heres my problem with that. Its the information in the posts. Its why hes obvious bait.In post 497, CheekyTeeky wrote:My problem with the case on Chip that schism made is that it neglects assembles meta. Most people have experienced a game with assemble at some point and it's pretty obvious he's consistently lurksack mislynch bait. It's not AI to assume assemble is going to flip town off of 4 posts.
Who do you want to vote Dave?In post 511, davesaz wrote:I think joda is town from d1.
Who do you want to lynch today? So far I understand you're willing to lynch both Elmo and Schism.
Is Schism your only scum read?In post 515, davesaz wrote:Didn't you notice I've posted many times since then?
I thought so too when I read it, but I ended up coming to the same conclusion based on one of SA's D1 posts where they pointed out that Tone was basically conf. town.In post 528, davesaz wrote:I got some time to iso cytheflyguy. I don't see much useful there at all. I'd say it's worth a weak scum read.
This is an attempt to divert attention away from the idea of looking at who northsidegal would be a threat to.In post 428, cytheflyguy wrote: Now with that, we can assume scum killed tonereader. Now we must find out who had the biggest motivation to kill them and start from there.
Most likely a partner to whomever would be tagged by that analysis.
Wtf? Just Wtf? I don't understand this. Anyway I'm going to give the thread some room to breathe and observe you all for a bit.In post 532, davesaz wrote:I'd take any and all input on Schism as well please.
Even though that's my strongest scumread in terms of having reasons, it's also least confidence in being correct that the reasons point to scum.
Before anyone gets any ideas, this isnota logical inconsistency. Largest quantity does not correlate to highest accuracy. In terms of accuracy I'm most confident in Elmo, it's just not a lot of quantity.
VOTE: Elmo TeH AzN
Ohhh yeah I remember you saying that earlier. It's certainly valid but a bit of a stretch to assume players play optimally as any given role without looking at their meta in said role imo. Note I've never been SK. But I think it's best if both avenues are explored rather than just one. Mix both possibilities with reads and bang we got ourselves a steamroll.In post 535, davesaz wrote:My conclusion on Tone being the SK kill is driven more by correct SK play than by mafia strategy.
As SK you must kill someone you can plausibly say it is pro-town to kill. The optimum way to explain the extra kill is by claiming vig. (I got down close to lylo as SK in this setup using exactly that strategy)
It could be that you're correct on the reason for NSG to be killed by mafia -- which reduces the value of searching for specific players to want her gone.
I'm actually more interested in going a different route for now.
I like this post. I get what you mean now. I don't agree that there is a single "best way" to play town though. I play off reactions, and I'm honest about what I'm doing. It may not look super-town to those unfamiliar with me but it's pretty obvious that those kinds of play are not coming from scum in hindsight.In post 539, davesaz wrote:One person's waffle is another person's accuracy. I value giving town things to work with if I'm dead. It's another aspect of what I told A50 -- the best way to play town is not to throw a bunch of excrement and read people off how they react to it. The best way is to say only things that you actually mean. Although sometimes the right place for a vote is not the strongest read, for any number of possible reasons.In post 537, CheekyTeeky wrote:UNVOTE: Jodaxq
Just in case...O_o
Pedit I don't understand your waffle about why you're voting your weak scum read instead of your medium scum read...
You might think this gets me scumread a lot, and it does. People do not expect honesty from town, and they go bananas when they see it.
Spoiler: look inside if you want the "math"
In post 541, Almost Chara wrote:@Cheeky: Look into Schism's ISO when he got mad at us for persistently pushing him as Scum on D1, and especially around the time he voted himself (that's shortly before, during and after the event). His reaction was super Town to us both upon reevaluation.
Beetlejuicing much? Nothing else you have to contribute? Are you going to push me or are you just shading?In post 551, Elmo TeH AzN wrote:I dont look at replace outs as saying one way or another.In post 550, CheekyTeeky wrote:Also wasn't Chip's replace out towny? I don't get why AC still wants to lynch that slot. I'd prefer a lynch in one of the better info scum reads like schism or Jodaxq. If I did have to compromise I'd go with EtA because his ISO sucks hard. I see noone is interested in Cy, and he's pretty low info anyway so I'm happy to leave that for now.
I'm loving the buddying here though from 2 people on the reads of one player
That's a good point. I found Chip calling Schism a moron on his exit towny as it felt like genuine frustration to me.In post 554, Almost Chara wrote:because we were the obvious NK last night, so if there is a Doc in the setup they would have been on us. Scum would not want to shoot the IC on N1 as there are no other "obvious" targets for protectives.In post 550, CheekyTeeky wrote:@AC why do you think you're alive today?
Also, Chip's replace out is totaly NAI to me. I t was done because he has no time to play. Period. RL las nothing to do with alignments.
~A50
Readslist please?In post 553, Elmo TeH AzN wrote:I have 5 tabs of MS open and its the weekend. I check into things. Not allowed to?In post 552, CheekyTeeky wrote:Beetlejuicing much? Nothing else you have to contribute? Are you going to push me or are you just shading?In post 551, Elmo TeH AzN wrote:I dont look at replace outs as saying one way or another.In post 550, CheekyTeeky wrote:Also wasn't Chip's replace out towny? I don't get why AC still wants to lynch that slot. I'd prefer a lynch in one of the better info scum reads like schism or Jodaxq. If I did have to compromise I'd go with EtA because his ISO sucks hard. I see noone is interested in Cy, and he's pretty low info anyway so I'm happy to leave that for now.
I'm loving the buddying here though from 2 people on the reads of one player
@SA - scum Chip wouldn't bother insulting people on his replace out. Also Scum Chip is quite indecisive and is vocal about not being able to obtain SRs on anyone. He was a bit waffly around the holidays but he certainly had a scum target. I'm not feeling scum Chip at all.In post 555, CheekyTeeky wrote:That's a good point. I found Chip calling Schism a moron on his exit towny as it felt like genuine frustration to me.
In post 563, Sleepless Assassin wrote:At the time, Jod believed that to be my reaction to the self vote. When reading Jod, you have to look at Jod's intent. The point is that she used that self vote to develop a read on myself and others. It reads as genuine scum hunting even if she was mistaken about my post.
Yeah I guess it is. I could be wrong, Chip has pulled the wool over my head before but I don't think I am.In post 567, Sleepless Assassin wrote:Oh so it's a meta thing.
If it's stalling out couldn't that also be a sign that we're on the right track?In post 576, Jodaxq wrote:This game has stalled out, and usually that's a sign that we're looking in the wrong place. I know that I've been a major part of the inactivity and I agree that Chip's inactivity is NAI, but I can't help but feeling we're losing some activity to some people liking the direction this game is moving
I'm not sure if you misunderstood my posts. I was lynching a scum read and preferably one that gives us the most information as an added bonus. I didn't say I wanted to lynch them purely for information. I'm not sure how that is AI of scum.In post 592, OhGodMyLife wrote:A so-called information lynch is really bad for town when we're possibly one lynch away from being in LyLo. And why does Cheeky need to hedge with the line about lynching for information when in 503 she says "something in my gut is screaming she's scum"?
Sorry ended up going out last night. Will happen today instead.In post 611, davesaz wrote:Was hoping for CheekyTeeky's cases "in a few hours".
It would be really anti-town for me to elaborate on this point.In post 618, Almost Chara wrote:1- It's not a "mass claim", it's a PARTIAL mass claim.In post 615, CheekyTeeky wrote:I vote to veto mass claim.
2- The 1-shot PR already used up their 1-shot, so no need to hold back. If -say- we have a 1-shot Cop we both have a confirmed Townie (the 1-shot Cop), a likely confirmed Townie in LyLo (their target), and we know it's 3C already (we know we at least had CC bc we have a flipped Cop, and 4C doesn't even have a 1-shot Cop).
This gives us more info about the setup AND reduces the lynch pool by 2 already.
Another example: One shot Doctor confirms there being a full Doctor (who will NOT claim). This also means the setup is MCCTVDD, so -at the very least- it rules out any future fake claiming. Same with a 1-shot RB, while a 1-shot Vig means we either have a full Doc or full RB (NEITHER SHOULD CLAIM).
Now, what were you against?
