Mini 1972 - Friendship is Magic - Game over

[I Am Innocent]

vote HeWhoSwims

Makes me think of swimming with the fishes...definitely mafia

[I Am Innocent]

vote HeWhoSwims

Makes me think of swimming with the fishes...definitely mafia

mod didn't even see my one post before this

Oh, and:

vote Dave

Early game scum tell he dropped. Also okay with Beef, Dunn, and UCV at this point. Not opposed to Screen or Odd, just less optimistic they'll flip scum.

[I Am Innocent]

Not opposed to Screen or Odd, just less optimistic they'll flip scum

You better get opposed then

On odd too?

I will insta hammer odd if they ever make it to L-1

[I Am Innocent]

While you're here, what is ur read on Dave? Beef, UCV? I'll let you pass on Dunn since he hasn't posted past page 1.

[I Am Innocent]

While you're here, what is ur read on Dave? Beef, UCV? I'll let you pass on Dunn since he hasn't posted past page 1.

Dave nada
Uc I’m don’t want to be quick to judge but I’m feeling a tiny bit off about them. They have things going on irl so give them a pass for now.
Beef I feel might be playing up the@ I have played in a long time”.
Nothing definitive yet.


On the part about Odd.
It wasn’t about me it’s about you.
Saying you don’t scum read someone but you don’t care if them get offed is a little to indifferent.

What you call indifferent I call null

[I Am Innocent]

mod didn't even see my one post before this

Blame the vote scrip. When I’m on my mobile I use that and can’t double check. You didn’t use vote tags per the rules. I’ll fix the VC later when I get home.

Well I’ve played a lot of games and have never used vote tags so shrug

[I Am Innocent]

While you're here, what is ur read on Dave? Beef, UCV? I'll let you pass on Dunn since he hasn't posted past page 1.

Dave nada
Uc I’m don’t want to be quick to judge but I’m feeling a tiny bit off about them. They have things going on irl so give them a pass for now.
Beef I feel might be playing up the@ I have played in a long time”.
Nothing definitive yet.


On the part about Odd.
It wasn’t about me it’s about you.
Saying you don’t scum read someone but you don’t care if them get offed is a little to indifferent.

What you call indifferent I call null

I don't think I like this post very much. So you don't care if your null reads get lynched? Doesn't that... not make them null?

Do I think all the scum (likely 3 in a game this size) are in my list of 4 scum reads by page 6. I’m good but not usually not that good.

No my comment was made to accomplish a few things
1) comment on the larger wagons
2) show who my null reads are (and by POE who I’m leaning town on)

So to directly answer your question, no they are still null reads and no I only defend town reads D1. Get me to LyLo and I’ll be more concerned with a null read on the chopping block over my scum read. Make sense?

[I Am Innocent]

First of all, I don't like how you just reversed the question, as it shows unwillingness to reason. Scum tell? Not on its own, but given your other responses...

I will answer you anyway because I'm nice.

Page 2 hammers are bad because information is good to have: the more of it the better. Longer day == more time for scum to slip up. Shorter day == less time for scum to slip up, sooner night, day 2 becomes a game of catching up. There is a point where it becomes stalling, but that point is not on page 2.

Of course there are some tradeoffs: power roles have more time to be outed which paints nice targets on their backs with longer days, whereas shorter days give cops/trackers/whatever an earlier investigation (meanwhile, doctors/roleblockers/similar stand to benefit from longer days). I believe that the tradeoffs on long early days are worth it and I don't think it's wise to bank on there being roles we aren't even sure exist in the setup.

No, because what we have to gain from the day is the interactions throughout the day, not the end result. Sure, it sucks we lynched a townie, but in the process of reaching even a false conclusion, we'll have more information to go on than if we lynched quickly.

Fast fail does not apply to this scenario.

I would like to see your point of view and reasoning, not just additional questions. Don't think my responses absolve you of the responsibility to answer my questions.

These posts feel towny. Although it is slightly concerning that your most towny feeling posts have to do with theory

Be careful giving town reads for Information Instead Of Analysis type posts. I think your instincts are right on with most of your reads. One of my stronger town reads.

[I Am Innocent]

I’m at a loss.

Not a fan that this is all you have to offer now that the wagon on you has disappeared.

[I Am Innocent]

I’m only town leaning one person.

So your solution is to stop playing and just say "I'm at a loss"?

[I Am Innocent]

Official Vote Count

Beefster

(3): Jodaxq, Srceenplay, Tchill13

Tchill13

(2): UC Voyager, Beefster

Havo

(2): oddmusic, davesaz

wavemode

(1): Maki Harukawa

Srceenplay

(1): Havo

Maki Harukawa

(1): HeWhoSwims

oddmusic

(1): wavemode

daveasz

(1): I Am Innocent

Not Voting

(1): Dunnstral

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Deadline

: (expired on 2017-12-25 15:42:09)

Official Vote Count

Beefster

(3): Jodaxq, Srceenplay, Tchill13

Tchill13

(2): UC Voyager, Beefster

Havo

(2): oddmusic, davesaz

wavemode

(1): Maki Harukawa

Srceenplay

(1): Havo

Maki Harukawa

(1): HeWhoSwims

oddmusic

(1): wavemode

Not Voting

(2): I Am Innocent, Dunnstral

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Deadline

: (expired on 2017-12-25 15:41:27)

Pretty sure I didn't unvote between here. Is this still the stupid rule still.

VOTE: davesaz

Better?

[I Am Innocent]

UNVOTE:

Screen looks a townier to me now. I was a little thrown by how…weird (at least to me) his reactions seemed, but his later posts seem more natural for town defending himself. (45, 52).

I can maybe see the value of Tchill putting pressure on screenplay, even though I don't like the move to put screen at L-1. I'm not townreading him for it mind, but I don't actually think it's the worst vote on that wagon, plus I agree with Jordaxq's 57.

On the other hand I really don't like Havo so far. I actually do think his vote is the worst on the screenplay wagon (mind you, this was a wagon made up mostly of naked votes so I feel kinda spoiled for choice here). But what really hurts is that his next set of posts have one (joking?) asking for a quicklynch and two more posts without anything really game advancing.

VOTE: Havo

Uh wow I forgot about this game but wanted to respond to this:

I thought srceen looked better though votes on him were justified at the time, I don't dislike havo up at this point, I townread you and think Tchill is weird

UNVOTE:

Less than 6 hours before you have to prododge again.

[I Am Innocent]

Guys.... Look at all the info were getting from not lynching on PG 2.

Sorry I want to see how long Dunn lurks for.

[I Am Innocent]

yea. it is hard to read. I will either read it when i get the chance, or start sorting from where we already are!

Nope, 12 pages, you can read that quick. Start....now!

[I Am Innocent]

Yeah no at the Tchill votes. I'm still townleaning on him. Not sure what to make of some of his posts but his recent posts are pro town to me, seeing as for example offers (multiple) lynch pools in 206 and 285 although the suspicion on Maki is a bit eh.

Speaking of which, I still have my vote on her but she's not among my top suspects for now. So yeah UNVOTE: Maki

If you ask me for townreads I'd say Joda (good content) and Dunn (good content + reads given) as my top 2.

On the other hand as for suspicious I'd say Havo whose ratio of content to actual contribution is... on the low side. Obviously it's day one and it's probably too early to jump to definite conclusions yada yada, but we have to lynch someone nevertheless and for now his posting behaviour seem iffy to me; barely any discussion, even about the things others are discussing (aside from D1 pros/cons) and being really convinced that Srceen is scum and steering for a lynch without really discussing it.

UCV hasn't contributed much either, lot of empty content there too. However his V/LA ended yesterday so I'm curious what he will show us from here on out. The same goes for wave although he did post reads.

So for now: VOTE: Havo

What specifically did you like about Dunn? I liked ur earlier posts but this one was bad.

[I Am Innocent]

Tchill wagon is garbage by the way.

[I Am Innocent]

Everyone, next post, read on Dave. Thanks in advance.

[I Am Innocent]

Town

Beef is doing all the things that are really really easy to do that scream "I'm town". That mixed in with the fact his scum hunting isn't actually there and he gave that fake excuse and voted me early is why he's scum also. Have beef and screenplay had any sort of discussion or mention of one another?

This^

[I Am Innocent]

First quote is not part of that

[I Am Innocent]

Why no vote davey?

[I Am Innocent]

vote HeWhoSwims

Makes me think of swimming with the fishes...definitely mafia

mod didn't even see my one post before this

Oh, and:

vote Dave

Early game scum tell he dropped. Also okay with Beef, Dunn, and UCV at this point. Not opposed to Screen or Odd, just less optimistic they'll flip scum.

that's half the game you wanna lynch lol jesus.

Page 6 I had 4 scum reads and 2 null reads and u cast shade my way? Noted.

[I Am Innocent]

VOTE: Screenplay

why are you putting a player on L-2 in RVS

are you nuts Havo

are you a wolf this time

do you remember virt's game

do you know how bad this can get in mafiascum

I hope you're scum

VOTE: screen play L-1

what in the world are you doing

do you think this is cute

wait until a villager lolhammers that and then everyone assumes it's a scum claim and he flips town

lol you guys are the worst

RVS sucks, stop doing it

Yeah absolutely no method to the madness here. Seems like toranaga could be scum as well.

Yep this entry is bad.

[I Am Innocent]

Funny how we're looking everywhere but THIS game.

I'm looking at the lolawful pages of this game unfortunately...

You’ve dropped multiple early game scum tells.

[I Am Innocent]

Maki why is tchill just 'terrible' but not mafia?

Why do you think votes on wavemode are better?

I don't think wagons stalling is a valid answer, because I don't think that's actually happened yet.

This is very likely scum too.

[I Am Innocent]

VOTE: Dunn
really.

Town^

[I Am Innocent]

hey mason buddy join me on this :3

But Maki, the wagon on Tchill is only Uc Voyager, me, and Beefster, I don't know who you're describing here besides UC Voyager, but I don't think that's enough to not lynch them. In fact, there's a lot of people against the tchill lynch

dunn can you show me a game where you caught tchill as scum

I'm willing to sheep depending how strong you're scumreading him here

hey mason buddy join me on this :3

I'm sort of townreading dunn but if he is scum I'll be right on with you maybe

Dunn/torr/? Curious to see how Dave responded to all this.

[I Am Innocent]

hey mason buddy join me on this :3

I'm sort of townreading dunn but if he is scum I'll be right on with you maybe

Why were you town reading him at this point?

[I Am Innocent]

vote: HeWhoSwims

halfway through this feels like scum

Why? Because it feels like scum trying to get low hanging fruit while deflecting from Dunn wagon.

[I Am Innocent]

I like Toranaga's read in.
If it's an act, it's a good one. Can't rule that out.
I think it's real enough to call it town.

Yep Dave is still scum too

[I Am Innocent]

vote: dave

and yes I changed my read on this slot from town to scum but eh just replaced in so :shrug:

dave voted screenplay and didn't unvote him while he kept pushing tchill

doesn't read like he is genuinely scumhunting

I think swims made towny posting here and there, dave didn't

Ok maybe not scummates.

[I Am Innocent]

I like Toranaga's read in.
If it's an act, it's a good one. Can't rule that out.
I think it's real enough to call it town.

I can do that, Toranaga totally misrepresented what I did and it isn't all that hard to read. I kinda expected some kind of retraction by now.
VOTE: Toranaga

That was a quick turn of events. What happened between these posts, oh yeah he voted u. :-/

My dream world: when I’m caught up I will see two and only two competing wagons...Dave and torr

[I Am Innocent]

eh going from memory of what I read today my reads right now would be jodax, tchill, I am innocent, maki as strong townreads and then havo and dunnstrall a level below them. as for scum I think everyone else has similar equity and I'm not quite sure which one would be a good lynch just yet.

Interesting, I only seem to recall you mentioning me once before this and it was to cast shade in my direction. Why am I now a solid town read by this post?

[I Am Innocent]

VOTE: Dunn

I'm Dunn with this. In all seriousness I can see a world where beef is town. Not one where Dunn is though.

What's with the sudden change in attitude?

@Toranaga: what's with the erratic voting?

Just want to remind you these questions are still on the table. Though I suppose the answer to Toranaga's question is 'drugs'. Seems plausible, but it's not the kind of excuse that clears you forever. I'll wait until you sober up before jumping to any conclusions. Could just be dumb (high?) town.

Someone pointed out that UC Voyager is sort of slipping under the radar. I don't like that. The same can be said about HeWhoSwims.

This is a bad post, esp if torr is town.

Starting to waver in my Dave scum read

[I Am Innocent]

I can see how you might have that opinion, if you thought that I thought that it was an L-1 still; and that I was actually after tchill.
In that light it is not a misrep, merely a misunderstanding.
UNVOTE:

I'd like to know what's up with all the vote hopping. It gives me the heebiejeebies. Could just be a style thing...

Screenplay is giving some opinions, but doing it in a way that seems passive to me.
Not sure how to deal with that.

Then you have to make these 2 posts...sigh

[I Am Innocent]

You have been confirmed as scum tor

HOW?

Do you always catch up by focusing only on the current page?

[I Am Innocent]

vote: tchill

not surprised if it flips green but reads as scum and needs to die imo

OMG!

VOTE: Toranaga

Mason my ass.

are you scumreading both me and maki because I'm voting someone you don't agree with? because we'd have to both be scum for her to confirm my claim, and she'd have to have planned the claim with odd beforehand given how she was reading him.

just hm think about this a little.

I don’t believe the mason claim. No.

I’ll believe it when the Mod writes it after one of you flip.

Tchill could be scum, IDK if he is or not, but I’m not lynching a strong player on Day 1 when there are other better choices. You wanting to lynch him while saying “you wont be surprised if he flips green” is garbage.

Havo/Tchill13, please stop this. I hard town read you guys. Even if this was a gambit, which I highly doubt (Maki has been pretty obv town, and if one scum fake mason gets caught it brings the other down with them). If we get thru a night or 2 with them both surviving, we mass claim and sort it out then.

Right now I’m still in Dunn/Dave/beef/UCV/screen. I think scum are in here.

[I Am Innocent]

Toras slot is scum read. He comes in takes control of the game. Belittles those that don't agree with him. Speaks highly of those who do. Hmm...

For once, I sort of agree with you. The fact that he's using his mason claim to do whatever he wants is unsettling. I'm beginning to second-guess the mason claim.

Look at this sheep the town players (Tchill13/Havo) on a claimed mason. Very bad post.

[I Am Innocent]

IAmInnocent has really slipped into the background. Looking through his ISO, what has he even done in this game? He's made 19 posts in this game and half of them are either complaining about the vote count system or are completely useless like 261, 264, 299 or 347

I didn't even know that player was in the game. They weren't on my reads list and nobody called me out on it.

As the player missing I noticed it. Which I did find unusual since u responded to a post of mine shortly before it.

[I Am Innocent]

Town

Tora, Maki, Dunn, Dave

Null

Jodaxq, wave (leaning scum), UCV, srceen, Innocent, HeWhoSwims

Scum

Tchill, Havo

This has been a crazy game. I wish I had some more solid scum reads, but nothing really pings my scumdar strongly. Lots of conflicting signals.

So which is your partner, Dave or Dunn? And which of those null reads is ur other partner?

Love how you scum read Tchill13 and Havo 10 secs after you were agreeing with them that torr might be fake claiming.

VOTE: beef

[I Am Innocent]

Looking thru beefs iso his vote history is pretty crappy

Odd/tora - multiple votes on a claimed mason
Maki - vote on other claimed mason
Tchill- pretty obv town

That’s it.

More beef votes please.

[I Am Innocent]

Odd/tora - multiple votes on a claimed mason

Before the claim. The only one after was a warning vote for shitposting.

Maki - vote on other claimed mason

Once again, before the claim. And it was because I remembered something wrong.

You're taking my votes out of context. Don't do that.

I never said u voted them post claim, but when two of ur three votes this game are now nearly confirmed town, and a third on a town read of mine, all the while giving town reads to two of the more questionable cats is very scum indicative of you.

At both you and tora, my scum read on ur slot has been there all game. Read my initial scum list. Its not just ur votes or reads list.

[I Am Innocent]

To be fair, I found the "mason claim entitles me to do whatever" attitude of Tora to be unsettiling

before

Tchill mentioned it. Just because I happen to agree with one person on one thing one time doesn't mean I've suddenly changed my mind about him.

Then why didn’t u bring it up initially?

[I Am Innocent]

20 posts over several days
gets scumread by someone
22 posts in 7 hours

pedit: 23

12 pages the first week of the game, doubles over 36 hours

Pedit: get lost jerk

[I Am Innocent]

Like for real, I have a demanding job, family with 4 kids, coach two right now for basketball.

You attack my lack of participation again and we’re going to have issues.

[I Am Innocent]

Odd/tora - multiple votes on a claimed mason

Before the claim. The only one after was a warning vote for shitposting.

Maki - vote on other claimed mason

Once again, before the claim. And it was because I remembered something wrong.

You're taking my votes out of context. Don't do that.

I never said u voted them post claim, but when two of ur three votes this game are now nearly confirmed town, and a third on a town read of mine, all the while giving town reads to two of the more questionable cats is very scum indicative of you.

At both you and tora, my scum read on ur slot has been there all game. Read my initial scum list. Its not just ur votes or reads list.

Or I could have just been wrong. It happens.

To be fair, I found the "mason claim entitles me to do whatever" attitude of Tora to be unsettiling

before

Tchill mentioned it. Just because I happen to agree with one person on one thing one time doesn't mean I've suddenly changed my mind about him.

Then why didn’t u bring it up initially?

Because Tchill got to it first.

Yeah who is almost always wrong with that much frequency...scum or town? Randomly pick any 3 players and you have a decent chance that at least one is scum.

Ps you want my vote moved, join me on Dave.

[I Am Innocent]

Beef is so obvtown it hurts

Why?

[I Am Innocent]

this pot shit is fucking dumb as fuck! like, play the fucking game. stop fucking around, and start scum/town hunting

everyone is shitposting besides me, but at least Tor is making good posts here and there.

The level of confidence in UC's posts is way different from when I last played with him and he was town

That doesn't prove anything necessarily, but I also am not liking his play in and of itself. All his "stop fucking shitposting and play the game" seems sort of forced (and personally I don't think this game has been all that shitposty anyway) and I think this attitude from him sort of betrays a mindset focused more on face-value appearances than player motivations

How long ago was that game? How much has my play changed?

Answer: a lot

Not a fan that you pop in 2 mins after ur name is mentioned. Coincidence or active lurking?

[I Am Innocent]

thats early distancing. when has anyone seen masons in a mini normal?

I’ve actually been in a 3 way masonry in a mini normal, so yeah they do exist (no other town power roles that game).

[I Am Innocent]

thats early distancing. when has anyone seen masons in a mini normal?

I don't see why not.

Keep your setup speculation to yourself.

Why the last sentence? They’ve already claimed???

[I Am Innocent]

You also seem certain about who the scum team is and there seems to be no rhyme or reason as to why Dunn and I have fallen off your list.

Screw my Innocent case. That's something for another day.

VOTE: Tchill

Even if I'm wrong about you, you make a half-decent policy lynch. I have not seen much of anything pro-town from you.

alright beef. gimme some questions to answer.

Sorry I’m scum and just want you mislynched.

IFYP

[I Am Innocent]

Apparently clicked a few too many quote boxes along the way

[I Am Innocent]

search.php?keywords=masons%28mason%29&t ... sf=msgonly

there have been 17 mini normals on site with pre determined masons.

My 3 player masonry is not in there, that can’t be all of them.

The masonry is not getting lynched D1. If you want to push screen then do that. But the other two are not getting lynched today and your feelings are noted.

[I Am Innocent]

tchill, if you're town, think of the possibility, as remote as you believe it is right now, that I'm actually town masons with maki instead of scum with maki; and that you're the only one that thinks differently because it's only you that's wrong, and not everybody else that's wrong and you're right.

this d1 was so bad I don't think you should be still alive in lylo. but you have the chance to redeem yourself and gain some perspective in this game by reading other people's thoughts in it. if you're town, you're working very hard to convince yourself you're right that I'm scum. now try to convince yourself of the opposite. think of this game with the perspective that I'm town and maki is town:

you're now working with a 10 person POE and you need to find the 3 scum players.

knowing that me and maki are town, you could probably sheep those townreads on screenplay and beefster? let's take them out of the POE for now. ok now you have 8 players in front of you: jodax, havo, HWS, dave, dunn, IAI, UCV, wave. you townread wave and so do I, so no wave. AFAIK we're both townreading jodax? I may have some reservations, but don't think she should be lynched at any point here until d4 or something, and that's with some implicating flips against her.

so now you have havo, who you have a null and I have a scum lean on. dave, who you read scum before and I think he is towny. HWS I'm starting to townread, and you never voted him when I tried to wagon so I take you're townreading them. dunn wants to lynch you, maybe you want to lynch him too. maki knows dunn very well, they share a hydra together. she is very suspicious of him! maybe I should sheep her? and IAI I'm sort of null on, and I think you are as well. I think I enjoyed recent posting of his.... and then UCV, who maybe you're null on, but I'm very strong scumreading UCV and I played a lot with this guy already so maybe my read here is good?

anyway, so taking your reads and my reads, if we both decide to read the game with the perspective that all 3 of us are town, would you like this guess as a wolfteam:

havo
dunn
UCV

imagine a world in which this is the actual scum team. just go there with your mind a little, see how you like it.

I’m willing to vote the latter two at this point.

VOTE: UCV

[I Am Innocent]

VOTE: Dunn

Let's see what happens. You get your wish for now.

Willing to vote this too

[I Am Innocent]

search.php?keywords=masons%28mason%29&t ... sf=msgonly

there have been 17 mini normals on site with pre determined masons.

My 3 player masonry is not in there, that can’t be all of them.

The masonry is not getting lynched D1. If you want to push screen then do that. But the other two are not getting lynched today and your feelings are noted.

Could you link your 3p masonry?

viewtopic.php?f=53&t=68822

[I Am Innocent]

VOTE: uc

Why didn't you ask for a claim before hammering? That benefits nobody but scum.

[I Am Innocent]

In all seriousness, let's pick up where I left off

VOTE: Tchill

How many scum on the UC wagon, and who are they?

[I Am Innocent]

wavemode

Beefster

Toranga (oddmusic)

Maki Harukawa

Havo

Srceenplay

davesaz

Tchill13
Dunnstral

I Am Innocent

HeWhoSwims

VOTE: HeWhoSwims

Why am I am scumread?

[I Am Innocent]

Srceenplay's hammer was bad but he's not scum

Ok, enlighten me

[I Am Innocent]

Prododge until tomorrow. See the vote count, not that three of the scummier guys in the game voting me bothers me, but reasons when I catch up?

[I Am Innocent]

Actually screw it, not voting tchill not voting myself, but screen is likely scum with that hammer. May move based on my catchup but for now:

VOTE: screen

[I Am Innocent]

Why even leave it open ended saying you may vote differently on catchup?
That’s showing non commitment and accountability.
You admit not not being caught up with game state but vote me to act busy and try to change momentum back to me.

Or maybe I’ve been wary of u being scum all game, and the hammer and terribad explanation for hammer without a claim made me even more wary. Then voting another town player (me) seals the deal. But yes I acknowledge I made that vote without fully catching up. Seeing tchill self voting I wanted to give town options before scum move to his wagon (see beef vote above).

As for ur other post, if I show you an example where scum hammered will u self vote? Cause scum do it and hide behind the WiFom like ur doing.

[I Am Innocent]

hey there I've been prodded

still have more to do than play this atm

tchill still a dick

sorry maki, I played masons like a dumbass.

love you all merry christmas

That’s the problem. Scum usually don’t act that way. They prefer to fly under the radar (see Dunn, Dave, beef, etc).

Inb4 screen says “what about my hammer”. Yes that was an attention getter but you already were under the microscope since beginning of D1, add to that the chance to end D1 early plus possibly lynching a town power role could be motives for scum screen.

My lynch pool is still Dunn, Dave, beef, and screen.

[I Am Innocent]

Actually screw it, not voting tchill not voting myself, but screen is likely scum with that hammer. May move based on my catchup but for now:

VOTE: screen

this is a wolfy read into why screen is scum. hammering is whatever, we needed to move on to the next gameday anyway. I'm not buying this is a real thought you're having here IAI.

It’s hammering without asking for a claim with 7 days left that is scummy.

[I Am Innocent]

Town

Tora, Maki, Dunn, Dave

Null

Jodaxq, wave (leaning scum), UCV, srceen, Innocent, HeWhoSwims

Scum

Tchill, Havo

This has been a crazy game. I wish I had some more solid scum reads, but nothing really pings my scumdar strongly. Lots of conflicting signals.

So which is your partner, Dave or Dunn? And which of those null reads is ur other partner?

Love how you scum read Tchill13 and Havo 10 secs after you were agreeing with them that torr might be fake claiming.

VOTE: beef

red is a very weak reasoning for a scum read so strong you're asking who tchill is partnering with

another thought I don't buy from you IAI

I’m not sure what you don’t get.

1) I have the same gut read as player x and player y about situation z
At the same time as
2) my top scum reads are player x and player y

How does that add up?

[I Am Innocent]

Town

Tora, Maki, Dunn, Dave

Null

Jodaxq, wave (leaning scum), UCV, srceen, Innocent, HeWhoSwims

Scum

Tchill, Havo

This has been a crazy game. I wish I had some more solid scum reads, but nothing really pings my scumdar strongly. Lots of conflicting signals.

So which is your partner, Dave or Dunn? And which of those null reads is ur other partner?

Love how you scum read Tchill13 and Havo 10 secs after you were agreeing with them that torr might be fake claiming.

VOTE: beef

red is a very weak reasoning for a scum read so strong you're asking who tchill is partnering with

another thought I don't buy from you IAI

I’m not sure what you don’t get.

1) I have the same gut read as player x and player y about situation z
At the same time as
2) my top scum reads are player x and player y

How does that add up?

what's the problem with it? you're wolfreading someone who happens to read a situation similar to you. so? how does that make anyone a wolf?

Are you even reading this game???

The “I” here is beef

Player x and y were tchill and Havo

Situation z was ur mason claim

He (beef) was trying to cast shade on ur mason claim saying he had the same thoughts and concerns about the claim as tchill and Havo who were also doubting the claim.

Then in the next reads list had 2 scum reads. Tchill and Havo.

I don’t know about you but when players have similar reactions to me, it is usually a strong indication they are town.

So if beef wasn’t using that post to true up town reads of tchill or Havo, it must only have had one purpose. To cast shade on ur mason claim.

[I Am Innocent]

Actually screw it, not voting tchill not voting myself, but screen is likely scum with that hammer. May move based on my catchup but for now:

VOTE: screen

this is a wolfy read into why screen is scum. hammering is whatever, we needed to move on to the next gameday anyway. I'm not buying this is a real thought you're having here IAI.

It’s hammering without asking for a claim with 7 days left that is scummy.

but that's everyone's fault. everyone on UCV wagon shares the blame. and hammering is more committed and villagery than putting in L-1 like havo did.

And the sky is green.

Just because you make a blanket statement doesn’t make it true.

Fact: Havo cried and cried about wanting the day to end, even declared he would hammer if someone got to L-1.

Fact: screenplay never made that declaration.

Question who benefits the most by lynching a town player without getting a claim first, thus potentially lynching a power role? (Answer scum)

Question would scum Havo have been better off putting unclaimed town UCV at L-1, or waiting until someone else put UCV at L-1 and then use the previous disclaimer to quickly hammer without a claim (answer the latter)

Nope Havo is the likely town in this situation and scum is likely screen.

And to say everyone is on a wagon is at fault for a premature hammer is just crap. There is a reason that a hammer without a claim is so antitown that it pretty much accepted as automatic procedure. To do otherwise is a scum claim. And I’m not letting you let screen off the hook for that scum claim.

[I Am Innocent]

VOTE: uc

Why didn't you ask for a claim before hammering? That benefits nobody but scum.

Toranaga POE was sound in my POV.
I thought he definitely would be scum.
I was ready for the day to be over so I could post again.

This is a scum claim. There is no logic in here that warrants a hammer without a claim.

Let alone the last sentence makes no logical sense whatsoever

[I Am Innocent]

Show me where screen was one of the lolhammering people.

Would I expect town beef to totally flip on his earlier scum reads of tchill and Havo? No not necessarily. But I’d expect enough doubt to warrant a disclaimer or movement towards at least null. But none of that. Which doesn’t align with beef being town but having a separate agenda.

[I Am Innocent]

Tora, look at screens play both before and after his wagon. Tell me you don’t see survival screen earlier and once the suspicion faded so did his play. All I remember post suspicion was the drunk posting to be honest.

[I Am Innocent]

@IaI
That’s all you remember because that’s all I posted after.
I said I was done with the day. No more posting.

You have made me more confident you are scum with your recent posts. You have just shade thrown and third to discredit others. I don’t see you trying to validate yourself.

My job is not to save myself...or validate myself. I’m here to catch scum. Those focused on defending themselves are usually the ones who are scum.

Thanks for admitting you stopped playing as soon as ur wagon died.

While we are at it, can I get ur full reads list?

[I Am Innocent]

Maki is as awful as tora this game.

VOTE: Innocent
screen is the best info lynch but I think 1 of these 2 is scum but not both given interactions

Psst u picked the wrong one...

[I Am Innocent]

You are guilting me by association.
You are ignoring other players with your tunnel.
Lynch me (town)
Mason dies tonight (town)
Tomorrow in a way worse situation

A few questions for screen.

Can we agree that tora just outed for no reason at all?

Why would scum kill an unconf townie versus a conf townie?

Why was lynching UC more optimal than lynching me at that point in the game if I just break the game and cause confusion? (You hammered you must have a good reason)

Why did you feel the need to create a scenario where the only reason you hammered was so you could talk more?

Iirc they were crumbing and finally said f it and revealed. It might not of been optimal but I can’t call it wrong.

Winfom was created on the mason claim before d1 end. Joradq slot was an obvious town. So kill obvious town and keep winfom alive. (That put the people pushing the winfom under suspicion in my POV )

Tor posted a Poe I agreed with. Uc in my opinion had a good chance to flip scum. I wouldn’t have hammered in any situation if I didn’t think so.

Nobody is scum reading you for hammering it’s the fact u hammered without asking for a claim first!!!!!!!!!!!!’n

[I Am Innocent]

If town gets lynched today and no mason dies night two then we mass claim day three. Should be obv at that point if masons are legit or not.

[I Am Innocent]

Tchill, Havo, masons work together. Scum is in the rest of the pool. Dave, Dunn, beef, screen prob have the best chance of flipping scum.

If masons are still alive tomorrow, mass claim. I doubt we have more than masons and doc.

[I Am Innocent]

Before I get lynched, and I’m currently at L-1***, Dave Dunn beef and screen should give full reads list with reasons.

*** terribad that beef didn’t point this out

[I Am Innocent]

VOTE: Innocent
screen is the best info lynch but I think 1 of these 2 is scum but not both given interactions

Try again beef

[I Am Innocent]

Beef you forgot OMGUS in ur scum read for me

[I Am Innocent]

And took things personally, was that when Dave accused me of lurking? My last replace out I was town and did the same thing. Went off on someone (who ended up being scum) for attacking my lack of posting when I in fact have a busy life.

[I Am Innocent]

Beef, examples of Dunn’s scumhunting please.

Same thing for Dave, examples of some of his posting that u liked.

[I Am Innocent]

The reasons in that list for both town and scum reads are pretty crappy.

[I Am Innocent]

VOTE: Tchill13

No reads list?

[I Am Innocent]

Maki, thoughts on the theory that tchill is acting that way on purpose as scum?

Also I thought you didn't think Screen is scum? Or was it Havo's read on Screen that you were questioning?
And typo in the vote, so the automatic votecounter may not pick it up.

If screen flips scum this is the next person to go...

[I Am Innocent]

@IAI in all seriousness do you see why i think screen and the masons are connected? its a stretch sure but the way maki and tora have played kinda solidified it for me.

i've been weighing the possibility of screen being scum without those two or vice versa.

i think it's much more likely all three are scum. just look at the hesitation to vote screen from those 2. i dont understand that. or the hesitation to vote the town burden who broke the game.

so many plays from maki/tora dont make sense.

Screen's iso is fluff. no scum hunting. terrible way to go about hammering (i would have not asked for a claim on pg 2 but pg 40ish... you ask for a claim)

then screen's attitude about maki and tora. asking for their help on wagons, voicing the tchill town idiot read.... too many things point to them all being scum.

I hear ya on the connection but it is suicide play to fake claim masons D1. Esp with Maki who had no suspicion. Unless there is a slew of town claims I am willing to believe the mason claims.

[I Am Innocent]

There is zero chance that

1) Dunn uses a second gunsmith shot on a claimed mason, which is proveable via a NK death over someone he scumread all of D2 (me)
2) we have an add’l investigative role in a 13 player game when 2 are already clear via masons
3) a fourth very strong power role with a doc and 2 masons in a 13 player game
4) Dunn lets screen get lynched after a clear the day before

If town mislynched me over this crap it deserves to lose.

VOTE: Dunn

[I Am Innocent]

Official Vote Count

Tchill13

(4): davesaz, wavemode, Beefster, Toranaga

Srceenplay

(3): Havo, HeWhoSwims, I Am Innocent

I Am Innocent

(2): Srceenplay, Dunnstral

Havo

(1): Maki Harukawa

Not Voting

(1): Tchill13

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.

Deadline

: (expired on 2018-01-03 12:51:49)

Dunn do you have a Lynch pool?

Yeah, look over my iso to refresh yourself

Toxic game, Tchill just stop, you're wrong. Or maybe this is what you want. I don't know if maki is scum or what, but we should focus on that tomorrow. There will still be 9 people alive tomorrow, that's enough to look at the mason claims again, today we should lynch elsewhere.

I want to lynch I am innocent or Havo.

VOTE: Havo

dunn I'm reading the game exactly how you're reading the game

IAI and havo are great lynches this gameday and I showed wolfy posts they made to that effect

I'm voting IAI and I've called them out for their read on me

These were ur last two posts of the day other than ‘I can’t believe u quickhammered screen’ two days later.

First of all screen is at L-3 here and his competing wagon is tchill. Tchill currently is not voting, and heavily suspected screen so reallyboth wagons are L-2.

Does anyone really think that Dunn is acting like a gunsmith with a clear on screen here and only 1 shot left?

Not even close.

When a claim comes out this late in the game with zero help to town it is usually a scum claim.

I have seen a gunsmith many times and it is always with a town vig (false guilty) and mafia doc (false clear, also protects scum against the town vig). With the doc in this game being town, gunsmith doesn’t even make sense.

Don’t be stupid peeps. Dunn is scum no 2 ways around that.

[I Am Innocent]

What I'm seeing from you is you started tunneling me when I had something like 3 posts and have seemingly held onto the same read without reassessing it or commenting on anything I've done

Nope, you still haven't answered for this. You have no basis for your initial read on me.

You haven’t done one townie thing all game. You’re play, like Dave’s, has been the usual safe, very mechanical/robotic play I see out of scum. No passion for finding scum.

I’ve reassessed ur play constantly it just hasn’t changed how I felt about your slot.

[I Am Innocent]

dunn I'm torn on you making this investigation on maki because it's actually pretty bad

What's pretty bad was your mason claim on day 1. With beef softing a pr I just didn't believe you guys were masons, I thought you guys were fake claiming whether you were town or scum, and I thought if either of you were scum it was maki

What's pretty bad is that maki lurked all game, a doctor was dead, and scum still shot maki instead of you, who has been posting a lot. It's because you're actively working against the town.

There is zero chance that

1) Dunn uses a second gunsmith shot on a claimed mason, which is proveable via a NK death over someone he scumread all of D2 (me)
2) we have an add’l investigative role in a 13 player game when 2 are already clear via masons
3) a fourth very strong power role with a doc and 2 masons in a 13 player game
4) Dunn lets screen get lynched after a clear the day before

If town mislynched me over this crap it deserves to lose.

VOTE: Dunn

I don't have a reason to claim as scum there, I was not in the hot spot, you were. You need to further explore this read.

I love ur defense here of a totally inexcusable “target” N2. “Well my target choice wasn’t as bad as u outing urself as mason D1”. (Actually. It would be worse if u had really been a gunsmith which we both know ur not)

I basically said it D2. If these are really masons we don’t have any more roles. What I didn’t say but thought was if we had any type of investigative role than surely the masons are lying.

Which brings me to why you waited until N2 to investigate the masons, hmmmm?

[I Am Innocent]

Can we wait for claims before lynching today? And this srceenplay wagon is bad. Why are you voting it, davesaz?

So you were willing to claim D2, but not when ur clear was at L-2 essentially, and u conveniently lurked until the short window of twilight where u say u can’t believe he was hammered.

Nope not buying it.

As for ur other crumbs I get it. I’ve done it myself. Planned fake crumbs to use later. Once crumbed cop so well I got not one but two people mislynched from fake guilties lol.

[I Am Innocent]

you should have let one of us flip dunn. I can't see how you're not partly responsible for having absolutely no checks this gameday. also, I'm never town and maki scum, I would never fake claim something like that. it's a bad night target cause it very often gives you nothing today like this time.

honestly my mason claim is literally the least 'bad' thing I did all game. you can openclaim masons if you want to with very little consequence. I only feel bad for not telling maki beforehand. I assumed town was better than to distrust a d1 mason claim, but apparently you too dunn, managed to waste your only check on the mason. :shrug:

You continue to assume his claim is legit which is not.

No way town Dunn investigates a mason N2 over N1, or a mason over a top scum read (me) N2.

[I Am Innocent]

Think about it people that is 6 clears in a 13 player game essentially:

Town gunsmith
2 masons
Town doc
2 clears from gunsmith

Give me scum roles that could counter this amount of power in a 13 player game. This would be a ridiculous amount of power in an 18 player game, it is impossible in a game this size.

Off to get my car serviced pretty much all I have to say anyway.

[I Am Innocent]

I'm not assuming anything IAI, I'm trying to have a conversation for once.

but yeah whatever let's scream and lynch

Whose screaming???

[I Am Innocent]

I think we should mass claim today too. Tora picking the order of course.

Just my two cents. Ok off for real now.

[I Am Innocent]

it would have to be multiball at this point

There has been 1 kill a night. No multi ball.

[I Am Innocent]

Dunn I would have expected a town 2 shot gunsmith to investigate masons N1 (hoping to catch two scum) or not at all.

I would expect you to have saved screen D2.

I would have expected you to target a non mason N2 and if both still survived to D3 counter claim them at that point when ur shots were gone.

None of this happened.

[I Am Innocent]

Let's stop trying to guess the game's balance, I acknowledge that right now it looks like town has a lot of power, but we have not seen the full setup at this point.

Lol. Spoken like a player that just faked claim.

[I Am Innocent]

Dunn I would have expected a town 2 shot gunsmith to investigate masons N1 (hoping to catch two scum)

Except town can fake claim masons, too, and I've seen it before, from players like Toranaga and Maki, and I thought maybe that was what was happening here too. Additionally, I had no further reason to seriously doubt the masons at the time, there was no doctor flip, just 3 unprotected prs.

Anyway, I think for my role to be in this game I'd have to have a false inno somewhere, and there are indeed mafia roles that can give false innos beyond doctor. Role cop and Vanilla cop are both realistic possibilities for mafia roles in this game.

Two masons + 2 shot investigative role in a 13 player game???? Yeah no reason to doubt the claim N1 but N2 was ok. Insert eye rolley emoticon here

[I Am Innocent]

I would have expected you to target a non mason N2 and if both still survived to D3 counter claim them at that point when ur shots were gone.

Right, but if I did that, I would have been counter claiming a pair of town masons as town, so you can't really be saying this was the right move for me to make.

Well except in this case they would be scum since I reiterate there is no chance we have 2 masons a doc and a 2 shot gunsmith for town.

[I Am Innocent]

Official Vote Count

Srceenplay

(6): Havo, HeWhoSwims, I Am Innocent, Maki Harukawa, Toranaga, Tchill13

Tchill13

(3): davesaz, wavemode, Srceenplay

I Am Innocent

(2): Dunnstral, Beefster

Not Voting

(0):

None.

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.

Deadline

: (expired on 2018-01-03 12:52:20)

A Lynch has occurred

Well... IAI was on BOTH lynches.

So we’re the masons they must be scum too

[I Am Innocent]

Official Vote Count

Srceenplay

(6): Havo, HeWhoSwims, I Am Innocent, Maki Harukawa, Toranaga, Tchill13

Tchill13

(3): davesaz, wavemode, Srceenplay

I Am Innocent

(2): Dunnstral, Beefster

Not Voting

(0):

None.

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.

Deadline

: (expired on 2018-01-03 12:52:20)

A Lynch has occurred

Well... IAI was on BOTH lynches.

So we’re the masons they must be scum too

That's a bad argument. They're conf town you're not.

And ur premise that people on both lynch wagon are most likely to be scum is a bad argument too.

[I Am Innocent]

this pot shit is fucking dumb as fuck! like, play the fucking game. stop fucking around, and start scum/town hunting

everyone is shitposting besides me, but at least Tor is making good posts here and there.

The level of confidence in UC's posts is way different from when I last played with him and he was town

That doesn't prove anything necessarily, but I also am not liking his play in and of itself. All his "stop fucking shitposting and play the game" seems sort of forced (and personally I don't think this game has been all that shitposty anyway) and I think this attitude from him sort of betrays a mindset focused more on face-value appearances than player motivations

How long ago was that game? How much has my play changed?

Answer: a lot

Not a fan that you pop in 2 mins after ur name is mentioned. Coincidence or active lurking?

tchill, if you're town, think of the possibility, as remote as you believe it is right now, that I'm actually town masons with maki instead of scum with maki; and that you're the only one that thinks differently because it's only you that's wrong, and not everybody else that's wrong and you're right.

this d1 was so bad I don't think you should be still alive in lylo. but you have the chance to redeem yourself and gain some perspective in this game by reading other people's thoughts in it. if you're town, you're working very hard to convince yourself you're right that I'm scum. now try to convince yourself of the opposite. think of this game with the perspective that I'm town and maki is town:

you're now working with a 10 person POE and you need to find the 3 scum players.

knowing that me and maki are town, you could probably sheep those townreads on screenplay and beefster? let's take them out of the POE for now. ok now you have 8 players in front of you: jodax, havo, HWS, dave, dunn, IAI, UCV, wave. you townread wave and so do I, so no wave. AFAIK we're both townreading jodax? I may have some reservations, but don't think she should be lynched at any point here until d4 or something, and that's with some implicating flips against her.

so now you have havo, who you have a null and I have a scum lean on. dave, who you read scum before and I think he is towny. HWS I'm starting to townread, and you never voted him when I tried to wagon so I take you're townreading them. dunn wants to lynch you, maybe you want to lynch him too. maki knows dunn very well, they share a hydra together. she is very suspicious of him! maybe I should sheep her? and IAI I'm sort of null on, and I think you are as well. I think I enjoyed recent posting of his.... and then UCV, who maybe you're null on, but I'm very strong scumreading UCV and I played a lot with this guy already so maybe my read here is good?

anyway, so taking your reads and my reads, if we both decide to read the game with the perspective that all 3 of us are town, would you like this guess as a wolfteam:

havo
dunn
UCV

imagine a world in which this is the actual scum team. just go there with your mind a little, see how you like it.

I’m willing to vote the latter two at this point.

VOTE: UCV

Yeah UCV was active lurking big time. Pretty sure my vote was only the second or third on the wagon. Can’t say I saw it exploding the way it did.

But did you take day 1 in its totality? See my votes parked on Dave and beef for most of day one, with little to no support? Also hard push on Dunn too? You can’t just look at the final wagon and say this or that person. Need to see how and why they joined the wagon. I was early and UCV was on my scum list the whole day.

Why you are giving Dave a pass when he was one of the late pile on votes is an answer I like to have?

[I Am Innocent]

I think it was better to claim now than later, my role is done, mason is already a target, I want wave mode to claim after dave he's been out of the game for so long, he actually hasn't posted in 8 days

You don’t get a say. Tora is the only confirmed town stop pretending like u are too.

[I Am Innocent]

I understand the reasoning for the claim since your two shot. I just hate we didn't get additional information.

Psst it’s because he isn’t town...

[I Am Innocent]

There is zero chance town has two masons plus a doctor plus a two shot gunsmith...ZERO!

Can’t wait to laugh at u clowns postgame...

[I Am Innocent]

There is zero chance town has two masons plus a doctor plus a two shot gunsmith...

This was my thinking for checking a mason, yes

And if u were legit and they were not it should have happened N1.

[I Am Innocent]

Zero chance masons claim day 1 just for shots and giggles too... It happened

I’ve seen masons panic D1 before and claim, so no, that’s not true.

[I Am Innocent]

I feel like Wave mode hasn't really contributed

Yeah, he has been a pretty crappy/lurky neighbor.

That's my claim btw: neighbor with wavemode. Vanilla other than that.

I've made you all wait long enough.

So ur claiming wave is a neighborizer and you are VT? What night did he add you?

[I Am Innocent]

I can go that way myself. I have my reasons for suspecting him based on my interactions in the neighborhood thread, but I can't quote anything from there so... yeah. I never quite had the same on him out in the open so I kept it to myself.

You can’t quote but you can certainly summarize those interactions. Let’s hear it.

[I Am Innocent]

Dave's meta with his last scum game I participated in lines up. He's playing the same exact way as he did last time I played with him and he was scum. Flat out lurks. Only asks questions when he doesn't.

IAI didn't come off well to me based off his interactions with my wagon analysis.

Wavemodes iso speaks for itself.

Hewhoswims could have buddied me early. I think this is a great Lynch pool though.

Ur two final wagons analysis?????

Why are you not looking at who has voted screen this game, not just his final wagon? Who voted the masons? Who voted the N1 kill? Pretty sure you were on both screen wagons, I know u pushed the masons did u vote them too?

No you certainly do not get credit for a crappy wagon analysis and then insinuate I come off looking bad. Try again.

[I Am Innocent]

I think everyone has claimed if not sue me. I’ll keep this moving along with mine too:

Vanilla Town

[I Am Innocent]

I feel like Wave mode hasn't really contributed

Yeah, he has been a pretty crappy/lurky neighbor.

That's my claim btw: neighbor with wavemode. Vanilla other than that.

I've made you all wait long enough.

So ur claiming wave is a neighborizer and you are VT? What night did he add you?

Sorry slow here. Ur saying you two started the game as neighbors. How many posts do each of you have in there currently. I’d like this confirmed by the other player too..

[I Am Innocent]

My town read in tchill is gone btw.

He freaked out earlier this game about the chances of masons being in a game this size...leading to tons of research. All basically proving him wrong by the way, tho he continued pushing the masons until one flipped.

I thought it very unlikely scum would do that much work and lead a charge that would never happen.

But now the masons are confirmed, another investigative role comes out with zero help D3, and he magically believes it. None of the research, no questioning the validity of it, just believes it.

Maybe it is Dunn/tchill/one of the neighbors.

[I Am Innocent]

You heard the man, get this fool out of here. If there's an investigative, check the masons. Let's start to actually approach this game logically.

Was this scum talk prepping the way for the fake claim???

[I Am Innocent]

Yeah looking at waves iso could definitely see wave and Dunn as teammates, the third might not be tchill. Could be distancing tho...

Dunn/wave/?

[I Am Innocent]

Scum team =

Wave/IAI/Dave

After everyone claims.

I will solve this game.

Scum team =

Wave/IAI/Dave

I'd say it's solid.

The amount of effort being put into this game is amazing. You both are aware I pushed and voted Dave most of D1 right. Ignoring the screen (town) wagon, and the masons. So my plan was what exactly???

I’m willing to waste our last mislynch on me if Dunn goes tomorrow. Like I can’t see any other way for town to have a shot to win this. Too many suckers who have zero concept of game balance and setup. There is no way Dunn is a two shot town gunsmith.

[I Am Innocent]

Happy New Years all!

[I Am Innocent]

But the claim doesn’t make sense from a balancing perspective. I challenge you to find another 13 player or smaller game with masons AND another investigative role.

[I Am Innocent]

viewtopic.php?f=53&t=71697

here is one

Lol the gunsmith is mafia aligned...try again

[I Am Innocent]

I would be entirely unsuspicious of dunn if he didn't claim lol

reading his ISO I think he left enough gunsmith hints with a screenplay greencheck that we can believe him. if he is scum... WP I guess. I mean dunn was never getting lynched I don't think. oh well.

tchill, why did you ask me on d2 if me and maki had a vig? could you go through the logic that made you ask that?

Why does it have to be WP? It’s very very very unlikely town has a gunsmith so let’s get the easy flip, which will also give us a ton of town and mafia hints based on associative tells.

[I Am Innocent]

What long term motivation does he have to claim out if the blue? Had he not claimed he wouldn't even be under suspicion right now

Is he under suspicion? If I wasn’t kicking up a fuss I think the rest of town would just have gone along with it.

I’ll be shocked if one of the neighbors is not scum. So that makes one of wave and beef. I’m ok with flipping wave, but if he comes back town I hope everyone finally comes around on scum beef. If wave comes back as scum neighbor I will concede beef is likely town.

Sorry but I can’t believe Dunn is town based on setup. Also has played a very safe game.

Havo and tchill I both town read D1 and still feel they are prob not scum.

Which means the last scum is in Dave and HWS.

That’s where I’m at. Preference to lynch is Dunn than wave at this point.

[I Am Innocent]

Regardless of who we lynch, Tora should get everything he has to say into the thread just in case he's the nightkill, which is very possible (no one else is 100% conftown as he is)

I think dunn's claim is -fine- actually because he did it at start of the day and there wasn't much of a reason for him to do so as scum. it's not like dunn would have been lynched this gameday anyway and it's not a safe claim if you're doing ahead of others, for the odd chance another investigative might counterclaim you.

This is very true and big part of my own reason to believe the claim. Why the hell would scum do it? It only gets a target on their back if anything. I still think it is possible to have this PR, because masons aren't that valuable unless a) they claim and b) one of them flips, and neighbours honestly don't mean shit for the game, right? Doesn't confirm anyone as town or scum. Plus doctor would need someone worth protecting, I guess. Re:Pro-town balance, Scum could have a doctor and/or traitor since I think they show as "no gun"? Assuming we have a 3-person scum team with one of those two roles, 2shot-gunsmith

could

catch two scum, but they'd need to have the luck to pick exactly the two scum with a gun + not be killed.

Re:VCA in 1628, I don't think the wave wagon is so incriminating because prior to that VC in 853 wave contributed absolutely

nothing

.

I can see the argument for dave/Havo being on the UCV lynch since it would be an easy way out. Srceen was on there too and even quickhammered and in addition to this being the D1 lynch I personally have trouble basing reads on this VC. I see the argument but that alone doesn't convince me, if you get that.

Agree that if Dave is scum, Tchill might not be since their recent interaction didn't feel like bussing to me. No necessary bussing at that.

Yep this is likely Dunn’s partner.

[I Am Innocent]

Actually let's make that a numbered list. In order of when I would lynch them if you'd ask me right now.

1. Tchill - Has tunneled on 4 people, 3 of which are conftown and the other seems to be heavily townread. Like him this gameday as he's putting forward lynchpools but this could be saving his own ass, although that part will always be speculation

2. IAI - Been tunneling on the fact that Dunn's claim is fake which I don't really think, not now at least, and I don't feel it's really helping out that much.

3. Wave - Not many contributions and is inactive. (I mean I see why people won't sub in for a D3 game with 67 pages... lol)

4. Dave - Recent contributions haven't exactly been stellar. Apart from that, decent.

5. Havo - I'm liking him this gameday, but out of the ones below my top 4 he's the one I'd first see as scum

6. Dunn - Because I believe the claim for now. There is an off possbility of a fakeclaim but it would not really make sense to me.

7. Beef - Feel like he has an open mind and I see his posts as gamesolving where he can. And if any of the neighbours are scum, then it's wave over him. Beef, if you're scum you earn an award.

8. Toranaga - because lol

Lol at the neighbors being 5 and 7.

[I Am Innocent]

Whoops make that 3 and 7

[I Am Innocent]

Hey Dunn’s partner, do scum fake claim? When they do do their fake claims usually provide any help to town, or are they generally garbage like Dunn’s results?

And most importantly have you ever seen a game of this size with masons AND a town investigative role??? Nope u say, well then take ur accusations about my Dunn tunneling not helping and shove it.

Ps masons plus doc is a very very powerful combination alone!

[I Am Innocent]

From my understanding if you think beef is town then wave should pretty much be lock scum.

I’m not as sold on town beef as others. Can someone please explain why with specific posts/examples?

[I Am Innocent]

@Tora if IAI is town then why would he be so fixed on the Dunn claim being fake when multiple other players (seem to) believe it?

BECAUSE I'M A FRIGGIN' ACTUARY AND WHEN SOMETHING HAPPENS LESS THAN 1 PERCENT OF THE TIME AND IS PRESENTED IN A CURRENT GAME WHERE

THREE OF THE OTHER SEVEN UNKNOWN PLAYERS ARE SCUM

I TEND NOT TO BELIEVE IT!!!

SHOW ME FOR THE LOVE OF ALL THAT IS GOOD IN THIS WORLD MORE THAN 1 OUTTA 100 GAMES THIS SIZE THAT HAVE MASONS IN IT AND A

TOWN INVESTIGATIVE ROLE

?!?!?!

NOBODY CAN OR SEEMS TO CARE TO LOOK. THAT INCLUDES THE SCUM....DOES THAT GIVE YOU A FRIGGIN HINT?!?!

THEN AGAIN YOU PROBABLY DON'T NEED A HINT SINCE YOU'RE PROBABLY DUNN'S TEAMMATE.

[I Am Innocent]

Look at this Dave wagon take off. And Dunn on it. Sigh.

[I Am Innocent]

Lol can’t believe I clicked that link.

[I Am Innocent]

Yeah not a fan of this slot either. 8 real life days, he has to post eventually.

[I Am Innocent]

Would scum want to me that obvious and quickhammer when it only gets them to a 5-2 split?

This.

[I Am Innocent]

Not sure if I like going for an L-1 right now, but I suppose it's best to be a man of my own word.

VOTE: psyche

Let's not hammer this right away.

So you don’t want a hammer right away but you put him at L-1. In a game where both previous days ended in a quickhammer...

Aka I don’t buy the sincerity of that last sentence.

[I Am Innocent]

So beef and Havo, does this mean you were not okay with the Dave wagon?

[I Am Innocent]

So beef and Havo, does this mean you were not okay with the Dave wagon?

Scum team =

Wave/IAI/Dave

Wave/Dave/Dunn

Sounds better actually. No way I nailed it on my first shot anyway.

I think IAI has made some good points.

Im ok with either. Wave is getting traction.

But Dave was at L-2 and you didn’t join that wagon but this you will? I’m trying to see the difference in ur mind.

[I Am Innocent]

Not sure if I like going for an L-1 right now, but I suppose it's best to be a man of my own word.

VOTE: psyche

Let's not hammer this right away.

So you don’t want a hammer right away but you put him at L-1. In a game where both previous days ended in a quickhammer...

Aka I don’t buy the sincerity of that last sentence.

Earlier, I mentioned I was going to vote him if he didn't post by the time I got home from work. He didn't post, so I voted... It just happened to be after everyone else's votes. On the one hand, it put him at L-1, but on the other hand, I saw no good reason to back out either.

Except you don’t want a quick hammer and this allowed the chance for a quick hammer.

[I Am Innocent]

i really seriously can't finish this this morning
for now i'm leaning toward agreeing with iai about dunn's roleclaim
but on the other hand, his posting seems...convincing?
if i were voting just based on posting, i'd probably prefer havo or hws or maybe even tchill

You covered a lot in a short time. Did you read the whole thread? I’d like you to take me thru ur catchup, otherwise I have to assume scum coaching on one item (Dunn’s claim, my reaction).

[I Am Innocent]

So beef and Havo, does this mean you were not okay with the Dave wagon?

Scum team =

Wave/IAI/Dave

Wave/Dave/Dunn

Sounds better actually. No way I nailed it on my first shot anyway.

I think IAI has made some good points.

Im ok with either. Wave is getting traction.

But Dave was at L-2 and you didn’t join that wagon but this you will? I’m trying to see the difference in ur mind.

I didn’t realize Dave was L-2 tbh. If he was right now I’d vote him.
I prefer Wave because I believe one of the neighbors is likely scum.
I’m going to follow Tor most likely anyway. If he moves back to Dave I will also.

Who are you town reading besides Tor?

[I Am Innocent]

VOTE: dunn

Been doing some thinking. Dunn is scum gunsmith. Makes sense for scum to have a gunsmith if town has a doctor due to the doctor having a gun.

Doesn't make sense for town to have 2 confirmed masons, a neighbor (or 2 neighbors), a protective, and an investigative.

I don't think I've ever seen the whole scum team claim VT. Usually one claims the town version of their own role.

If dunn flips scum... We might as well treat IAI as conftown.

If dunn flips town. We can figure out what to do with IAI. At least it gives us a direction to push in case of a mislynch.

Doctors don’t have guns.

[I Am Innocent]

VOTE: dunn

Been doing some thinking. Dunn is scum gunsmith. Makes sense for scum to have a gunsmith if town has a doctor due to the doctor having a gun.

Doesn't make sense for town to have 2 confirmed masons, a neighbor (or 2 neighbors), a protective, and an investigative.

I don't think I've ever seen the whole scum team claim VT. Usually one claims the town version of their own role.

If dunn flips scum... We might as well treat IAI as conftown.

If dunn flips town. We can figure out what to do with IAI. At least it gives us a direction to push in case of a mislynch.

This is good stuff.

What say you Tor?
What say you IAI?

I’ve been on Dunn. Little nervous/paranoid about the 180 by tchill with the caveat he’s coming after me if I’m wrong about Dunn, but I still don’t see GS in this setup with 2 masons and a doc.

[I Am Innocent]

thinks it clears him

How much of this game have you read?

[I Am Innocent]

Why does scum dunn claim investigative results on 2 dead people when he's not under any pressure

With screen gone and the mason flip confirming tora, was any other player universally seen as town or scum. I feel like we all seem to reset most of our reads some putting us all at 3/8 chance of being scum, correct?

With this said I’m pretty close to moving my vote to psyche.

[I Am Innocent]

It’s a Saturday, read the game and give me something more than IAI vs Dunn.

[I Am Innocent]

i just don’t have loads of free time necessary for the kind of analysis you’re looking for from me
it’s gonna take me more time than you seem to have patience for

What analysis? You replace into a game and it is expected to read up on it and start playing. If you couldn’t devote to that why did you replace in?

[I Am Innocent]

i just don’t have loads of free time necessary for the kind of analysis you’re looking for from me
it’s gonna take me more time than you seem to have patience for

What analysis? You replace into a game and it is expected to read up on it and start playing. If you couldn’t devote to that why did you replace in?

i figured id pick up reads as the game went on

So how did you come across IAI vs Dunn, if you didn’t complete ur catchup and decided to just focus on the game going forward?

[I Am Innocent]

I’d prefer an answer to that before anyone hammers.

[I Am Innocent]

For the love of all that is good please hammer

Town likely has only one mislynch left, I'm in no hurry. Want to see this answer first.

[I Am Innocent]

Yeah need to figure out who was all over the possible SK and vig talk.

That flip makes Dunn’s claim more believable. Would bet scum have a doc too in this setup.

Either 4 vs 3 or 5 vs 2 at this point, so the chance we are in LyLo means let’s talk before voting please.

[I Am Innocent]

Also willing to bet scum shot the SK one night so prob knew psyche was a BP SK. Prob another indicator there is a mafia doc and Dunn is town gunsmith.

[I Am Innocent]

Official Vote Count

I Am Innocent

(4): Srceenplay, Dunnstral, Toranaga, Beefster

Srceenplay

(3): Havo, HeWhoSwims, I Am Innocent

Tchill13

(2): davesaz, wavemode

Not Voting

(2): Tchill13, Maki Harukawa

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.

Deadline

: (expired on 2018-01-03 12:51:54)

@IAI: FWIW, I put you at L-2, not L-1

And since you requested reads: (reasoning will be vague because I'm too lazy to look over everything again right now)

IAI: scum. Took things personally. I forget what else. Gut probably.
TChill: I'm waffling between scum and policy lynch. I could see it going either way.
Dunn: Town. His reasoning and direction in his scumhunting is pretty solid.
Tora: Town. Mason claim was dumb, but the situation makes it pretty clear IMO that it is legit.
Maki: Town. Mason.
Screen: Town. I just don't get what all the commotion is about. I see nothing substantially incriminating against him. Anything against him looks reaching.
Havo: Leaning scum. Doesn't seem to want to contribute and makes excuses. Sort of in the Tchill camp.
HWS: Leaning scum. I probably read between the lines a bit too much, but something about him just pings my scumdar and I can't exactly place my finger on what it is.
dave: Town. He steers the conversation where it is most productive. Or something like that.
wave: I really have no idea. I have my reasons which I will keep private, but I can legitimately see him as scum, but only if there's a serial killer (i.e. he's either town or SK- and given the fact that there was only one nightkill makes the former more likely). He just seems generally aloof and unaffiliated.

interesting you nailed wave as an SK back in 1412? Can you explain that?

[I Am Innocent]

Was this the first mention of an SK?

[I Am Innocent]

vote: psyche

I think lynch dave next anyway but especially lynch dave next if psyche happens to be town

hammering cause it has kind of been way too long by now

gl everyone

sorry if you're town psyche

Let’s not forget this last post by Tora. Was obv that Dave was going to be a D4 lynch target, so now a one shot ability comes out coincidentally against the other living investigative role??? Like would anyone have believed town had a 1 shot N3 watcher + 2 shot GS + 2 masons + doc....nope.

Yeah too convenient.

VOTE: dave

[I Am Innocent]

I don't have this game committed fully to memory -- it should be obvious given the holidays but just saying. I'll dump out what I think I do remember, now that I'm not suffering from daily dozens of holiday-induced interruptions (being the only driver in a family of 4 is very taxing, lemme tell you ).

davesaz - Town by role PM

HeWhoSwims - Nagging feeling that not many opinions have been fresh, and I do remember at least once where a post looked like he was trying to make a point but the opposite point of view slipping through in an awkward phrasing. Could be scum, needs a reread to improve read accuracy

Toranaga - Mason

wavemode - non entity who flaked. Looked scummy while he was here.

Beefster - I think that I thought town but don't really remember why. I have to reread some stuff.

Tchill13 - I think he's scum, from the screen and mason pushes.

I Am Innocent - Town read from perceived sincerity in 1:1 interactions. Uncertainty from a feeling there have been some strong positions which look good because they're strong, but aren't game influencing.

Havo - D1 I saw a lot of pushing for a lynch, but at the same time the way that was pushed seemed to be trying to avoid responsibility for the results. (That is, wanted a fast lynch, didn't seem to care if it hit town or scum, but disclaiming responsibility for that aspect of the result). I don't remember much of what he's done since then, not because he wasn't doing but because I wasn't really tracking.

Dunnstral - If I ignore the claim, it looks like scum to me. Taking the claim into effect, less likely to be scum but I don't think I'd want to bet a lylo on it when we come to that point.

Pending some reading:
davesaz, toranaga
beef, Innocent
Dunn, Havo, HWS
tchill, wave

I think town watcher Dave does not give town points for Dunn’s GS claim here either...

[I Am Innocent]

I don't have this game committed fully to memory -- it should be obvious given the holidays but just saying. I'll dump out what I think I do remember, now that I'm not suffering from daily dozens of holiday-induced interruptions (being the only driver in a family of 4 is very taxing, lemme tell you ).

davesaz - Town by role PM

HeWhoSwims - Nagging feeling that not many opinions have been fresh, and I do remember at least once where a post looked like he was trying to make a point but the opposite point of view slipping through in an awkward phrasing. Could be scum, needs a reread to improve read accuracy

Toranaga - Mason

wavemode - non entity who flaked. Looked scummy while he was here.

Beefster - I think that I thought town but don't really remember why. I have to reread some stuff.

Tchill13 - I think he's scum, from the screen and mason pushes.

I Am Innocent - Town read from perceived sincerity in 1:1 interactions. Uncertainty from a feeling there have been some strong positions which look good because they're strong, but aren't game influencing.

Havo - D1 I saw a lot of pushing for a lynch, but at the same time the way that was pushed seemed to be trying to avoid responsibility for the results. (That is, wanted a fast lynch, didn't seem to care if it hit town or scum, but disclaiming responsibility for that aspect of the result). I don't remember much of what he's done since then, not because he wasn't doing but because I wasn't really tracking.

Dunnstral - If I ignore the claim, it looks like scum to me. Taking the claim into effect, less likely to be scum but I don't think I'd want to bet a lylo on it when we come to that point.

Pending some reading:
davesaz, toranaga
beef, Innocent
Dunn, Havo, HWS
tchill, wave

I think town watcher Dave does not give town points for Dunn’s GS claim here either...

I don't know if I'm arguing with Dunn's scumbuddy or misguided town, but here goes. (If town, you should unvote btw, this could be lylo)

Given lack of information to the contrary, I tend to believe claims, or at least give them weight. I haven't liked any of the discussion on setup and balance, because in a closed setup it's all gambler's fallacy. Just because games tend to have X and not Y never means that they must have X and can't have Y. Jumping to conclusions narrows the scumpool too quickly. I'd be all over it in an open or semi-open setup where the available combinations of roles are known. But here, trends are not enough to make a firm decision on.

Like I said, being a specific-night tracker doesn't preclude a limited-shot gunsmith. In some possible setups (like GF+ninja) the roles are complementary. In others having both gives town too much power. No way to know back then. Now we have a hard guilty.

Yeah Dunn is my scumbuddy that’s why I voted him the whole day yesterday rather than lynch an SK.

[I Am Innocent]

I agree with dave on setup speculation. I'm still iffy on the claim, but that's besides the point. Talk on setup/balance is honestly not all that helpful. There are usually ways to make it work. I mean, for Pete's sake, we had a Masonry AND a Neighborhood, so we can't really put aside any setup possibilities or base cases on them.

IAI's vote doesn't surprise me. This was just the last thing he needed to vote dave definitively. Dunn's vote is the obvious choice regardless of alignment.

I'm still trying to make sense of this. Dunn has played more consistently with his role, but could have been easily faked because his results brought nothing we didn't already know to the table. There was the one breadcrumb on D2, but that can be readily faked by scum. Could just mean he was planning it from the beginning. Dave's play leading up to this claim is consistent in a different way. There's no good reason to drop breadcrumbs on a power you won't use until N3, so that checks out. It also explains the general lurkiness, as he would have wanted to stay under the radar.

Yep same response to Dave is just as valid to your crappy post.

[I Am Innocent]

Ugh Dave's claim makes sense though if it's true. Including the fact that he claimed VT yesterday. But how do we differentiate his earlier play between scum trying to get Dunn lynched or town trying to avoid the NK until night 3?

If we were to somehow know there are 2 scum then we should 100% lynch Dunn I feel, because either he flips scum or he flips town and we bathe in Dave's blood the next day. And again lately I consider Dunn's behaviour scumish or at least far from as conftown as someone claiming to be town should be. I lean a bit towards Dave's claim as of now.

Like would anyone have believed town had a 1 shot N3 watcher + 2 shot GS + 2 masons + doc....nope.

Yeah the point here is that there is a N3 Watcher OR a 2shot GS. So which one do you believe - Dunn, based on only the fact Dunn claimed earlier?

Nope there are other reasons:

1) the way they claimed. Dave when it was obv he was a lynch target vs. Dunn did it when under little suspicion.
2) two shot gunsmith aligns better with an SK and likely mafia doc
3) Dave “believing” Dunn’s 2 shot GS claim after masons were confirmed

[I Am Innocent]

1+2 I can get behind.

As for 3 if Dave is in fact the watcher he could have been acting along to not have to reveal himself + survive the night.

That’s not what he just said on this page.

[I Am Innocent]

i'll vote dave whenever IAI, Dunn and havo agree with my breakdown. I think they are all town.

Damn. I was hoping that might work. I don't think there is any recovering from this. Well played everyone.

[I Am Innocent]

Well appears two scum are beef and Dave anyway. Beef post might be protecting last scum...so might not be auto HWS. Get to 3 person LyLo and do one last analysis town.

[I Am Innocent]

vote HeWhoSwims

Makes me think of swimming with the fishes...definitely mafia

mod didn't even see my one post before this

Oh, and:

vote Dave

Early game scum tell he dropped. Also okay with Beef, Dunn, and UCV at this point. Not opposed to Screen or Odd, just less optimistic they'll flip scum.

Still got it???

[I Am Innocent]

I'm just saying you're not WIFOM'ing your way out of a HWS lynch next day phase.

Scummiest person votes first in LyLo.

Assume HWS goes first and votes Player A. Player B posts without hammering, confirming them self as town.

Player B should look at connections between flipped scum, HWS, And Player A. Assume nothing.

I have nothing else to say.

[I Am Innocent]

Scum is gonna kill me and let IAI vote in lylo because of this.

HWS is scum.

VOTE: beef

[I Am Innocent]

Not planning on tipping my hand to scum at this point. Rather keep them guessing if I’m the right NK or not

[I Am Innocent]

I friggin hate LyLo's. My preference is to hear from HWS first.

[I Am Innocent]

Not saying I disagree.

[I Am Innocent]

HWS, come out come out wherever you are....

[I Am Innocent]

crap

[I Am Innocent]

putting this on me lol. well guess I'm confirmed now.

[I Am Innocent]

I did some reading over "night", but plan to do more. I think day 3 might end up being the key. last time I rushed lylo I was wrong, so despite tchill probably freaking in the day thread, I owe it to everybody to try to get this right. The town between you two now knows the other is the last scum, so any convincing you can do would be appreciated too.

[I Am Innocent]

EBWOP freaking in the dead thread...

[I Am Innocent]

Confusing game is confusing.

Setup talk... if it's 3 scum then it could have been easy for scum to win. If one of the SK kills goes through scum would've won already (3-3). But there's also lots of possibilities for a 3 scumteam to lose (see: doc, SK killing scum). I'm no expert around here so I should probably let y'all sort it out.

However if scum is 2 people then Dave would probably be town. In this case we have a 5-2 split right now, scum!Dave fakeclaims, then gets a nightkill getting scum to 3-2 only to be lynched there as the person he framed would flip town.

That vote for Tchill. It's way too hard to assess properly. I think scum would love to frame town!Tchill by flipping a mason or Srceen. Ergo that vote could be scum!Dave putting the "let's frame Tchill" plan into motion. But it could just as easily be Dave trying to be scum to survive to Day 4. Urgh.

Re:Beef neighbourhood is NAI tbh and while bringing up the SK is eh, it's always possible it's present.

I'm headed out to work for now, hope I come back with a clearer head and perhaps having figured out what way to go :/

I should prob try and iso both dunn and dave later and try to assess what is scumplay and what is town-trying-to-be-scum.

Why were you so sure none of the SK kills went thru above? Why couldn’t it have been the scum kills that didn’t go thru (e.g. doc protect N1, SK BP protect N1 or N2).

Also why didn’t you consider me scum this day, you went right at Havo?

[I Am Innocent]

Yeah town!Dunn is way more believable now.

Long story short this gets me to IAI/Dave being likely scum. For the last I'm doubting Tchill or Havo... mostly towards Havo, as I described my reasons for town!Tchill yesterday. I hold it for possible that Tchill is playing a risky game, see the entire D2 thing, but once again I just find myself thinking that scum!Tchill would be taking way too much a risk incriminating himself by tunneling and then making Srceen flip town.

thing is I can't find that much incriminating stuff for Havo except a seemingly firm scumread on Dunn. And lately I feel his posts are a mix between NAI/IIoA at times. But I'm just not fully convinced you know.

pedit: I don't consider Beef's post bad tbh. Still townreading there.

But you still had me as scum after those posts (question to psyche, post 1731 you reference above)?

[I Am Innocent]

"likely scum" <> "possible scum"

Why do you feel the need to change your own wording?

[I Am Innocent]

In terms of lynching

Tchill/IAI > Dave/Wave > Havo > Dunn (> Beef)

Official Vote Count

davesaz

(3): Tchill13, Toranaga, Dunnstral

Tchill13

(1): davesaz

Dunnstral

(1): I Am Innocent

Not Voting

(4): Psyche, HeWhoSwims, Havo, Beefster

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

Deadline

: (expired on 2018-01-12 22:38:53)

Would scum want to me that obvious and quickhammer when it only gets them to a 5-2 split?

So the last Dave read you had before he got to L-2 was a top 3/4 candidate for scum, yet when his wagon got to L-2, you didn't join three posts later. Why?

[I Am Innocent]

I’m ready to vote, any last words?

[I Am Innocent]

Yes.

Regardless of the outcome, great game everyone. It's been a pleasure! See y'all in another one

Well since you're where I'm voting, I don't think I need to wait for Havo to respond. If he is the last scum, and I wouldn't be totally shocked if he was, hats off to him. I town read him early in the game, and his bus job of Dave was well done. The reason I most think Havo could be the last scum was Beef's "crap I thought we had it" type post. That WIFOM is going to be a killer if he does end up being the last scum.

But I'm hoping I'm right that it's you. <crosses fingers>

VOTE: HeWhoSwims

[I Am Innocent]

Can't wait for the dead thread.

Also IAI... Dave and me spent nearly the entire game thinking you were our traitor

Lol. When did you find out it was Beef? Did he end up getting recruited?

[I Am Innocent]

Thanks for the modding job Derpy. And apologies for my grumpiness about my voting behaviors. By the end of the game I was using the vote tags

[I Am Innocent]

Damn. I was hoping that might work. I don't think there is any recovering from this. Well played everyone.

I mean for me personally this was the moment I found out. I literally thought we had it in the bag when Beef voted Dunn because you, the traitor would hop onto the wagon. Then you went against Dave all of a sudden... And even then I wasn't sure of who the traitor was since all of my townreads on Beef were genuine.

Ah, that is tough. I assumed he was recruited with the lack of kills N1 & N2.

[I Am Innocent]

Thanks for the modding job Derpy. And apologies for my grumpiness about my voting behaviors. By the end of the game I was using the vote tags

My pleasure. Also you really should have dug deeper looking for masons with investigatives. This was a modified version of a previous game

Lol, between you and me, I did go thru Tchill's list of mason games earlier and did find some. But based on my scum read of him plus the lack of likeliness of it, I stuck by guns D3

[I Am Innocent]

now can someone explain to me why i got randomly quicklynched?

Well I was on the early side of your wagon. My preference was pressure to get you to start playing, I certainly didn't see the wagon taking off like it did.