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Claiming jester and then turning around and saying that claiming jester can be town motivated is awfully blunt though. Doesn't strike me as something that scum who don't know what to do would do.
It's not as overt as those other two you mentioned. But why do you think sheep said that claiming jester was town-motivated? Presumably it is a reference to the jester claim he literally just made, because he wants people to think about it in a specific light.
Well if he's not town then you just did something even WORSE.
And last page had Jay saying it was three votes followed immediately by Math voting. So yeah it was pretty obviously a hammer, and without a reason even.
Policy lynches are for unreadable players. Which I seem to have been talking past you when I claimed that he was not.
That said, Not_Mafia's play this game was both impressive and pathetic, but none of you cared about or even noticed it because you're just like "policy lynch the troll or he'll ruin the game". So while my read on him was shit and my foot is in my mouth for that, at least I had one.
In post 209, eth0s wrote:Defending not_maf at all in this game seems like a viable jester strat lmao
I'll grant this. I like to whiteknight as scum and I really did think he was town so as jester I would have been much more passively defending him, probably by just calling people dumb and repeating that he was town rather than addressing their actual arguments. (Conversely, I would NEVER defend him after that wagon as his partner because I saw such a low chance of people actually listening to me.)
However. I think the rest of the day should prove that I'm not jester. I can easily point to a half dozen things I would have done differently.
I say this because I should probably not live to LYLO, and if I'm not going to I should be lynched today or tomorrow. And before you go OMG jester play!!!1! remember that I'd have to have somehow CORRECTLY and confidently read Not_Mafia, despite your implications that he's difficult or impossible to read.
I have a pool of three people where I'm pretty sure the jester lies. I don't really think I need to expand on it except that it obviously includes Ari.
In post 237, Not Known 15 wrote:But, Assembaa, it is much more difficult to catch someone with a fake town motivation than to catch someone with a fake mafia motivation.
Ergo, it is easier to say that someone is definitely NOT jester than it is to say that someone is definitely NOT scum.
NK, the argument put forth in that post was based on the premise that I shouldn't live to endgame because of my defense of Not_Mafia. In that case, I'd rather be lynched before day 4 than after, and that makes defending against jester accusations necessary.
Also, since we're talking so much about jester and not-jester reads, I should probably share my jester pool: {Ari, eth0s, Heartless} in decreasing order of likelihood.
You are scum. You are either Jester scum or Mafia scum. I don't know which one. That is why I said that you should die Day 4. By then, you either suicided as Jester or are the last remaining mafia.
How can my actions have jester motivation or mafia motivation but not town motivation?
In post 274, Not Known 15 wrote:At the moment, I am not sure if you try to get towncred by telling others you want to get lynched as townie to prevent the Jester from winning...
or if you are really the Jester trying to get lynched on Day 3.
And that defense on Day 1, of Not Mafia, I don't know if you are their partner trying to avert a (for mafia) horrible Day 1 Mafia lynch or if you are the Jester who scumread them(especially easy if you know that they are NOT Jester because there is only one, you...) and tried to look suspicious
You answered the first part of the question but not the second, which as I suspected you haven't thought about. Why can't my actions have town motivation?
I wouldn't troll as jester here. (Of course I wouldn't probably have done ANYTHING I did but clearly you didn't trust THAT.)
I think that's probably because eth0s is hard to read. Him joking about being scumbuds with Not_Mafia is certainly an audacious play and it definitely puts him above Ari and Assembaa on my readslist. My current belief is simply that if Heartless isn't jester we can lynch everyone other than you and Jay and win.
Math. Explain your read progression on me.
You townread me day 1, then you scumread me day 2, then you jester-read me day 3, and now you townread me again. Why?
: do you view my past couple hammers as scummy? Why or why not?
No, I think it's primarily playstyle. A lot of people, town and scum, get lynch-happy in nightless games. And the Heartless hammer was risky no matter your alignment.
In post 434, JaydragonKing wrote:Smart, I wasn't here, but how in the hell did you guys decide to fucking hang Sheep in an hour? Day four is less then a page long and he was legit murdered in such a short period.
Please tell me you can't see why it's either you or Ethos in that situation.
I wasn't the one who made that decision. I voted the only person I didn't townread based off of interactions with Not_Mafia.
If you want to understand the hammer, ask eth0s, but I would assume he felt the same way.
And by the way Math, I will comment. I'm just waiting for you to answer my question before I say anything.
In post 443, Mathdino wrote:Regardless, his scum flip didn't reflect well on you at all, and I agreed with NK15 that you were either scumbuddies or jester trying to be in people's way.
But if your reason for the lynch was merely policy and not that you actually thought he was scum, wouldn't my disagreement with your reasons for policy also not be alignment indicative?
(Although, that is not even the reason I cited for resisting the policy lynch. I resisted it because I had a legitimate townread on him when everyone else was taking his trolling meta to mean that reading him was impossible.)
In post 447, Something_Smart wrote:Do you think scum-me expected me and Not_Mafia to both live to endgame?
I don't think you expected him to die on D1.
Otherwise I wasn't really thinking about this so idk what you're asking.
What I'm getting at is, I wouldn't ever defend my partner like that, especially if he were playing the way Not_Mafia was. It would be an action that would draw a lot of attention for probably no benefit, and the attention I'd draw would be even worse if I actually manged to save him day 1 and then he got lynched later. (In that regard I must thank Ari for the lolhammer.)
I'm under the impression that my defense of Not_Mafia is the main thing about me that's perplexing you (given that I'm no longer possibly the jester). So I want to push you to go beyond the obvious "he defended scum" and look a little deeper at the motivation.
Regarding eth0s, if he believed that he or Not_Mafia was guaranteed to die (unlikely since the jester claims were jokes and shouldn't really affect anything), why DIDN'T he go for max towncred? He didn't go for ANY towncred; in fact the phrasing of his vote made it look like he was actually distancing himself a little bit from the coming flip.
As scum you're going to say whatever you think looks town.
As town you're going to say what you honestly think.
THAT's the point.
And by the way, I don't make cases. Cases do a terrible job of conveying how I really feel about things, and pretty much every case I've ever made has been a disaster. You are correct that I see you as most likely to be scum, but I'm still figuring out the best way to explain why I feel that way.
In post 453, Mathdino wrote:I hope you understand the issue though with me getting a response that's basically "I wouldn't do that as scum". Like, the fact that you're even still here is proof that hard-defending a scumflip DOESN'T get you lynched. I'm not gonna townread you for something when you clearly expect to be townread for it.
Proof that hard-defending a scumflip as town doesn't ALWAYS get you lynched immediately. (Sometimes it does, as I pointed out.) I don't know that I've ever seen a situation where scum hard-defending their partner who was then lynched lived to the end of the game. Because most scum players cannot replicate their towngame perfectly. Town who are in that position are going to respond differently from scum who are in the same position. And since you don't know my alignment (unless you do ), you can't say that this game is an example of a situation where scum hard-defended their partner and survived without begging the question.
), you can't say that this game is an example of a situation where scum hard-defended their partner and survived without begging the question.
