Open 708: Pick Your Poison - Game Over

[Beefster]

Actually, you know what?

VOTE: mozamis

COA can wait.

[RadiantCowbells]

IF TRANSCEND FLIPPED A NON-TRACKER ROLE thank you

[mozamis]

Transcend gets the BOTD from me until I have a chance to ISO him. I'm not horrendously opposed to the wagon on the surface, but I need to really decide for myself.

I believe RC for now. Not sure why you'd make that claim on D1, but it's whatever.

mozamis seems opportunistic with his votes. It seems like he's sheeping every new wagon.

no, i was votin gfro bella/rc.
i then voted transcend, who you'll note was in my 4 man non town pile.
@ RC - stop your shade throwing BS. If transcend flips town, you have to go for leading the wagon against him, sonce you are likely scum counter attacking him.
howevr, it seems likely that transcend is scum and you are town. just cant see town transcend making that CC and retracting it.plus he has doen nothing town all game, and P.O.E
we lynch transcend. simple as.

[Transcend]

Man why can't we have good wagons this game

Beef your vote is diarrhea tier.

[RadiantCowbells]

There's a great wagon who took me giving off as many please fuck off signals as I possibly could as an opportunity to try to sneak a mislynch on me.

[Transcend]

You actually think i tried to ml you when i voted you for 5 seconds

[RadiantCowbells]

No, I think regardless of your alignment that that was just you trying to get the jump on me if I was in fact fakeclaiming tracker, I don't think you ever had any hope of winning post claim.

My man rc is probably scum (:

This is the problem point when it seemed like I was in a weak position and I was giving off signals that I think you could easily recognize and chose to push on me anyway.
You've seen me enough that if you were worried that I was scum you would have approached it differently here, and if you really haven't then let's drill it in for next game.

[Transcend]

No i just don't want you to coast on a fake claim is all.

And you act like you're easy to ml as town.

[RadiantCowbells]

And that's ignoring how implausible I find the idea of you scumreading me here when the way I dealt with mozamis should basically confirm me as town in any universe.

No i just don't want you to coast on a fake claim is all.

And you act like you're easy to ml as town.

I would be very easy to ML as town if I didn't make sure scum got punished for trying it.

[Transcend]

your vote on mozamis was really bad and i don't have to tr you for it

But klick is scum on my lynch

[Transcend]

now that that's out in the air

you can either

A. stay mad at Big Bad Trans and lynch him for testing your claim out when you're in a slot people aren't sure about

or

B. be rational with me and help me find scum

ball's in your court my dude

[Klick]

Transcend, idea: explain some of your reads

[Transcend]

oh you want me to explain my reads that i've already explained lol HAHA XD

[Klick]

Go on then, humor me. Quote any of your posts so far that explain your scumread on me. I call bullshit.

[Moneybags]

Ok so first off, @Klick:

Fantastic response. What I had been seeing from you had me worried but I was very much on the fence. I feel your reply was very solid and it's cleared me of any doubts. That said, UNVOTE: Klick.

Second:

Wow lets pump the breaks yeah. We have

zero reason to assuming RC is being truthful

. Remember scum picked the PRs. Scum-RC would know if there was no tracker and would be able to claim it un-cc'd.

I don't think Transcend pulling a cc stunt makes him guaranteed scum. There's town enough reasons to cc a PR. Especially when they do something like hardclaim D1.

I don't like Transcend appearing to flail around on page 19. It looks really bad to me. If I were to vote him it would be based on his performance here and not the sole fact that he cc'd.

RC is blatantly unhelpful by assuming their contributions are guaranteed to be helpful and that anyone who pushes them is automatically scum. It's forcing down everyone's throat that they are obviously such a hardcore town member that there's absolutely no possibility they are scum. It's like Thor on steroids.
However RC's seemingly self awareness of being miss lynched as town leads me to believe they are telling the truth. Unless that's part of the act. Either way we'll find out tomorrow, based on whether he is still in the game.

I realize each of these points seem to be contradictory. My main objective was to provide some alternate perspectives. However, allow me to elaborate:

- We can't solely judge Transcend as scum based off of the CC. We can however take into account PP's poor performance early game combined with him flailing about on Page 19.

- RC can't be automatically trusted cause they are un-cc'd. I think their play stile is outright detrimental to the town. However as they are self aware of this I'm willing to believe them until day 2.

----------------------------------

I want to wrap this up with an abbreviated, updated read list:

Town:

HWS: Hasn't given me any reasons to assume they are scum, they've been mostly helpful so far.
Klick: Very solid response in post 383, has me convinced.
CoA: Has been playing the game and has had very town reactions to everything so far.

Town Lean:

Thor: His posts more reccently feel more genuine, I'm willing to accept he is most likely town.
EP: Is at least trying to solve the game despite me disagreeing with them about CoA.
RC: Town until day 2.

Null:

Flub: Leaving him here until we can get more to go off of.
Max: Moved here due to a general lack of contribution. At least it feels that way, compared to a lot of the more active posters.
Tex: The one thing moz has said that I really agree with is in post 446. Her few posts left me feeling like she is trying but it's getting to be really hard to continue to see them as town.
Moz: I have no idea how to read moz. I feel like that may be a goal of his. His behavior is erratic and I very often find myself disagreeing with him. I'm not convinced that makes him scum as of right now, but I'm not going to pin him as town either.

Scum Lean:

Beef: He's been all over the place and I don't feel like he's been particularly helpful. Any time something interesting happens he goes off on his own tangent. It feels very off to me.
Transcend/PP: I still agree with CoA about PP in early game. I'm not a fan of the events that have transpired but I'm not sold just yet.

[Beefster]

For the record, I suspected mozamis for a while. I can't say I like his voting patterns.

[texcat]

hardclaim town tracker

I'm getting shot anyway and I have no desire to spend my limited time in this game defending myself.

lynch transcend.

I don't understand this. Why would you claim if you are town tracker? What makes you say that you are getting shot anyway? I just don't get it. Could you explain, and if not now, after the game?

[Flubbernugget]

I need to prod dodge. I've over extended myself between school and work.

[texcat]

Ack. I hit submit instead of preview....
I'm giving RC the benefit of doubt for now, and hoping for the best. Transcend's cc did not strike me as scummy, especially since he retracted it fairly quickly. I saw it as more of a test of RC's claim.

and kilck, what is it with you defending the bella/rc slot so hard?

I thought it was Flubber that he was defending so hard.

you ever gonna play this game?

Not playing the way you play or the way you think I should play does not mean that I am not playing.

[mozamis]

@ Beef - your vote on me doesnt make sense.i have been totally transparent about my reads.i maybe have changed vote too much - i regret voting for Cult who is clearly town - but apart fromn that, i feel ok. and yo u have no idea how hard it was to unvote Radiant after she was so bloody aggressive, but i try and not to get bogged down in OMGUS. so if you are town, unvote.

i agree with money about transcend - hence he has been in my not toewn pile for a long time. although i also think his cc and retractionwas scun panicking.
i think he is a really good day 1 lynch - very likely scum, and if he isnt, we have a lot to go off.

[mozamis]

Not playing the way you play or the way you think I should play does not mean that I am not playing.

so who do you think is scum?
and if you are town, its hard to read you beacuse you arent contributing enough.
like, you pop in to say transcned and RC both look town, but you dont give us any idea as to who think is scum?
this is why you are in my "likely scum" pile. you never really give reads or show any interest in game solving.
if peopel dont want transcend, we should seriously consider tex cat.

[texcat]

Town: Thor, Moneybags Both seem to be scum hunting and I agree with most of their points.
Scum: Flubber I thought this was clear from my vote and posts.

I like the subs. I was leaning town on Penguin and Transcend has not destroyed than lean yet. I liked RC's rather flamboyant entrance. Quite a difference from Bella. And his claim means that scum should sort him for us soon.

I keep going back and forth on Moz and Beef, but I think both of them have left enough associations that they will be easier to sort in the future. And I guess I would put Klick in this category too.

I'm leaning scum on Maxous. I voted him on page 2 for his mystery town leans. He came under some pressure for that and explained reasonably well, but has been fairly quiet since. And I disagree with his scum reads of Penguin, Bella, Thor and me.

That leaves CofA, EP, HeWhoSwims in the null, but probably town category.

[mozamis]

For the record, I suspected mozamis for a while. I can't say I like his voting patterns.

you literally never expressed any suspicion of me.
so yeah, your vot eon me does look dodgy.

[texcat]

@Mod - I know it's minor, but it always helps me when replacements start happening - could you update the first post with who is replacing who? It can wait till the second replacement pops in. Thanks and lurvs in advance!

And I'd like to me too this.

[Errantparabola]

You're saying that I *don't* overtly appear to be trying to control the conversation and exert my will on the gamestate?

Yeah-- never mind. My original thought was "Thor is pushing every single point loudly even though some of them seem really dumb" but in hindsight that doesn't really seem like an important thing

[PenguinPower] seemed content to treat the game as a debate rather than as a game of mafia, and his response to my pointing that out was an utter misrepresentation.

Could you do me a favor and point me to this?

I split up what I would normally make as one post into multiple to see if it would get people to read what I was saying more. You're interpreting all of the posts there as a reaction to Beefster, but that isn't the case.

That may definitely be true, but my point is that I think that your reaction in general is something I think is a plausibly common reaction from scum in your situation.

By the way, why were you "not opposed to my wagon" in 252, made before the post you quoted?

Before the post, you were one of several players who had posted, but had not stuck out or made an impression in anyway. It is common for me to express desire to wagon these people in the early game.

If I were scum, why would I feel the need to insert myself as a "key player" when most people seemed content to just write me off as town and ignore the rest of my posts?

Good point. I'll look back on it and think. I think I might just
UNVOTE:
now-- my mind's kind of changed as of this post. Will see what happens when I read more.

Where did I discredit Beefster? If by "discredit" you mean "point out how someone is wrong", then first of all those two things are very connotatively different and you'll have to explain why you chose the first phrase over the second, and second – yeah I would be "discrediting" him if that's what you mean.

My thought back then was that you were saying Beefster is superficially reading the post. Which implies that he's just skimming and finding reads to have. Which is, yeah, discrediting.

This post is already meaty so I'm going to continue in the next post