Open 705: Polygamist - Game Over

[momo]

Hey guys....

will read tomorrow and catch scum

I think I've been playing better recently, I hope y'all see it to

Anyway
momo out

p.s. if any of you could nominate me for the title most mislynchable momo, it would mean a lot to me. Same with a scummy nomination.

(I am only sort of joking...going to watch netflix now)

[momo]

Okay guys i'm going to read now...until I finish, nobody is to vote.

If you must use the hurt tags like so:

Code: Select all

[hurt][/hurt]

Scum only needs two mislynched to win, in that time, we must get a lynch...so, this is the day before lylo....no hasty votes or anything of the sort...

we will come to a hurt majority through discussion before actually lynching

[momo]

md, we only have 2 llama posts in our pt.....

however, I'm tonwreading you for that post because scum wouldn't insist

[momo]

in my lovers pt, llama does his intro

then kop posts hi

then bf posts hi

then bf asks if kop has any setup based advice and stratagies

bf is confused on how to play due to the lover mechanics so he says that his overall voting strat will mirror kop's

kop never responds

LF closes pt

[momo]

Alright, I don't know what's happening but Kop, dufaq are you doing...get it together and read our pt....you posted once but bf posted like four times after that, what are you doing?

[momo]

Problem is scumslips almost never actually happen and I didn't expect a situation as blatant as this.

Scumslips never happen! I didn't scumslip...kop fd up....I stand by what I said...however, my lynch is seeming likely here, as i go out, I warn town to be careful tomorrow because we will be in lylo, trust nobody, don't sheep anyone, and don't let anyone lead the town

[momo]

Has momo never fucked up a scumplan before? That's fundamentally the question here.

Also Diamond's deathtunnel of me, if he's town, is going to outright prevent us from getting a majority in the end. So that's an issue we're gonna have to deal with eventually. If all the grandstanding he says about himself is true (I'm great, my gutreads are great, my principles never lose games), I'm inclined to think he's actually just telling the truth and is thus scum because he's wrong. And if not, at least we can get majority next time.

He needs to claim his PT though.

I was pretty n00by in my first game (in which I rolled scum) like I kept on saying "if we are on the same team" because they were bussing and I didn't know what bussing was

[momo]

But past that ^^^^ no

[momo]

Have you not caught up yet? Or are you intentionally not catching up because I suggested not doing so?

I skim caught up...this weekend has been pretty busy for me so I will be doing a detailed catch up sometime soon

[momo]

Sat Dec 30, 2017 5:28 pm

Mon Jan 01, 2018 4:16 am

I wasn't around Saturday tea time onwards and didn't sign back on till well after the topic was closed.

can we agree this game is broken?

In what sense?

I think you just cleared yourself with timestamps

Bro, imma start documenting my login times so that I can do this....thx

[momo]

why not

VOTE: cytheflyguy

L-2

[momo]

u r right sky....red's entire iso is setup spec to appear towny and a random vote on cy that says let's go...indicating that he is scum going for a push...i'll bite

VOTE: RedFlavor

[momo]

Analyzing a few lynch options

DS/sheep

MD seems town

Sky seems town

[momo]

Spoiler: mathdino self iso

LITERALLY A CASE ON MY OWN PROGRESSION, NOT DOING THIS AGAIN

I don't know about claiming lovers yet. I'm gonna check game history and see what They Who Came Before Us thought on the matter.

I was young and naive on post 6. At this point, I'd only read the setup. Hadn't done any serious reading.

Yeah okay so NO ONE CLAIM YOUR LOVERS YET

The wiki suggests that claiming early is bad but I'm still working through the literature on the subject

Another interesting thing is that lynching completely randomly actually benefits town. The problem is that random lynches don't happen because scum won't let it. I would actually be done with creating a townbloc that follows a dice tag in the thread. Would give us a 60% chance.

Not voting because it'll be obvious that whomever I vote isn't my lover.

At this point, I had ONLY read the entire wiki page. You can see this because I'm literally just parroting statements that the wiki page made. See for yourself.

1. Let's not play to win, so to speak. Let's just play to play a battle of wits. So, no random lynching.
2. How could claiming lovers not help? Au contraire, since it's a nigthless setup, I think it's our biggest weapon here. If we claim lovers, we force the scum into pairs to begin with. Furthermore, if we have anyone super strong (I don't necessarily know if we do), if scum pressures their partner, it makes it pretty obvious. So, scum has to be careful about pressuring 2 slots in the case of one player being spot-on or whatever.

1. I basically ignored this as much as possible because I disagree with that philosophy.
2. This was slightly convincing to me but I wanted to read up first.

Also, by claiming lovers, it lowers the pool for scum to bus from, and lower the amount of chaos we'd have.

This was bullshit. Feel free to ask me why but yeah.

Counterproposal. Through the day, we'll probably as a town come together on a townread of someone. That person will then dice roll 2 lynches that don't include themselves or their lover. In effect, we'll be playing kingmaker. If we're right about the king we elect being town, we then have an exactly 70% chance of winning by sheeping them.

This is me trying to come up with a compromise idea. The kingmaker idea came from me saying "Okay, they want a battle of wits, and townhunting is, to some extent, a battle of wits, so the townie can just rando the lynches". I was not, at this point in time, as nihilistic as I later became.

My quick scan sees dice rolling as a tactic suggested. I appreciate the idea behind it but how to know that mafia aren’t loading the dice?
Also I kind of feel that using dice to decide goes against the spirit of the game.

The first point was bad because dice tags (remember that I came up with this idea knowing dice tags existed). Mafia cannot load dice.
I ignored the second point.

I propose electing someone we think is town to roll the dice and vote for someone other than them and their lover. So yes it would involve them loading the dice but they wouldn't be able to control the dice. No one would.

This is me formalising my idea on the philosophy that *I* can't the roll the dice because I could be scum, but it shows very good faith to have *someone else* roll the dice. My fatal flaw was that I started this too early, before we could locktown anyone by playing the game. Once I suggested this, I was doomed to pretty much have shit reads (because saying this changed the game).

wassup

happy new years
bye

i support claiming lovers
tl from diamond

I obviously had no reason to townread any of this.

Yes. While I'm sure they haven't already decided, if they have one really really townread person and one scumread person, then the TR person could take charge and say "I'm lovers with [scumread person] so if you think that they're scum, you think I'm scum". It's to our advantage to claim ASAP.

Let's not dice-lynch.

The first point is what finally convinced me that claiming lovers was important. So congrats on that I guess. I also realised that scum probably coordinated claims in the PT. Which is probably bullshit since half the scum probably wasn't even there.
And I didn't really give a shit that you didn't wanna dice lynch.

Yeah that's fair. I guess me claiming doesn't really benefit me or town, but scum claiming does, so it's best to set a precedent. Yo I'm lovers with Amrororawrachurrochora. Your turn?

Also why not dice lynch?

Here I finally claim because your claim logic was solid, even if it provides a marginal advantage. I asked if you wanted to not dicelynch on the hopes that you had a better strategy.

Also, fuck dice lynches. This is a game of "skill" and a battle of "wits". Dice have no place in this.

You did not. This is where our battle began.

Hello
Happy new years
Lets random lynch, mathdinos counterproposal seems interesting
Idk if we should claim lovers or not

The first post that wasn't from me or your slot. By this point I was lowkey in kingmaker mode, so I was on the lookout for things to townread.
My gut said to townread this because he agreed. But then I realised he might be dumb scum (not inconsistent with RedFlavor) who didn't realise that my idea was good and that random lynching would actually likely fuck him over.

I wonder if we'd have a higher chance of winning this game by playing kingmaker then, where the king we make straight up chooses the lynch straight up. We model open games by assuming random lynch; the flaw being that lynches aren't random, and in a game with such a high percentage of scum, lynching scum is unlikely. I wonder if we'd have better odds trying to townhunt and sheep. Will come up with a model and get back to this.

This is the point at which I was also beginning my Econ 101 class. You can kinda tell. I'm also, once again, just repeating things the wiki said.
You can see the beginnings of my "easier to townhunt than scumhunt" strategy. The idea at the time was that it's far more likely for the town to agree on a towniest member and be right, than it is for the "town" to agree on a scummiest person and be right. Doing this was a political move in an attempt to counteract the scum's weight.

So I go off to actually factcheck my own kingmaker strategy.

random lynch GOAT

also I'm lovers with someone I forgot which makes me lock town

also never lynching amrochora even if she is a wolf

sheepsaysmeep replaces jzhenson93

ah ok it was literally this guy

hi sheep

^i unironically believe this shit at face value and will in return also never lynch toranaga/sheep

Great progress on the scumhunting front, folks.

I on the other hand have made no progress in modeling kingmaking polygamist vs normal lynch polygamist. See you next year.

FINALLY my first townread. I townread this slot because I interpret "I forgot who I'm lovers with" as a slight townslip. Plus hypothetical scum buddying up to my slot read as a very very bad idea if they knew my slot was town. I recognised that doing this mutual townread would be scummy as shit but it was also my best lead.

You'll notice that I came up with a townread before I came up with a kingmaker idea. My intent at first was to PoE the scum by townhunting.

An argument that jzhenson and my slot are both town: Scum loves to whine to the mod when one of their members straight up doesn't show up. These fuckers didn't post a single thing in their PTs (I assume, correct me if I'm wrong Tora) for 3 fucking days and the mod still started the game. Locktown.

VOTE: Lalendra as good a PoE vote as any

Here I came up with another reason that the 2 guys who got replaced on gamestart are town.
Since I was still into a random lynch idea, I just arbitrarily'd someone who wasn't here yet.

I'm only now reading the game properly, and for some reason I thought you were lovers with pisskop just realised you're the replacement and lovers with amrochora.

I thought we should all claim, because then you can read one or both heads of a lover claim as scummy and that's where you wanna lynch.

1. More townslippiness.
2. The second argument makes no sense at all and reads as VI town coming up with an original idea. I ask myself, does this make sense as something scum would say?
No, it has 0 utility. Asking everyone else to claim doesn't help scum.

I kinda like this game now lol

I expect it to be filled with replacements if it takes too long though

Oh how wrong you were on point 1 and how right you were on point 2.

LOL

there's a good chance both amrochora and manrock forgot all about this game

it's too bad, I like playing with them

also I believe you too. game highly POE'd down already imo

Again buddies up to my slot (low utility as scum) and then intends to use it for PoE. PoEing my slot out of the lynchpool doesn't help scum at all.

VOTE: cy

no one showing up :'(

The first RVS vote by a slot I trusted.

VOTE: cy

Sheeping sheep. Sheep me!

Because I wanted to make a truly arbitrary vote that would also be arbitrary to you guys, I couldn't just random vote someone myself. Because I could be scum choosing to vote town.
In order to show my good faith and true belief in my strat, I had to sheep someone else I was townreading (already was) on whoever they vote. My honest willingness to vote literally anyone that sheep voted would, I hoped, help convince you guys I was town, and thus my strategy was in good faith.
Note that my theory of this setup is that while in a normal game, mafia doesn't care who we lynch while town does? In this game, mafia heavily cares who we lynch while town doesn't (or shouldn't). I hoped it would become obvious that I wouldn't put the lynch in some total rando's hands if I were scum (because we could just accidentally lynch my partners, or the person I sheep could decide to lynch me/Amro).
The reason I sheeped sheep is because sheep voted first. That's it. Otherwise I'd have said sheep Tora.

Note: I'm gonna repeat this. Yes, I said I intentionally acted in a way to convince you guys I was town. Do not take this out of context. I specifically did that because a common Open Queue trope is someone breaking the setup and the rest of the town being like WELL WHAT IF YOU'RE SCUM MANIPULATING THE POWER ROLES or WHAT IF YOUR STRATEGY SECRETLY BENEFITS SCUM. I did not want to deal with this bullshit. Unfortunately, I had to anyway.

Well sheep's vote is equivalent to a dice lynch so why not compromise and join the locktown wagon?

This is why I liked RVS. Don't bitch to me about theory or why we use RVS. I wanted to use it to generate a truly random vote from my perspective. The ONLY way that vote wasn't totally random from my perspective is if the scumteam was me/lover/sheep/Tora, which I figured people would think is crazy. Lo and behold, the people who started proposing that 20 years later are exactly the people that have always been in my lynchpool.

You have achieved status.....hard core town read!

[momo]

VOTE: tor

yes i will

VOTE: dia
tor can you put this at l=1

How does this progression make sense

scumreading to buddying

VOTE: sheepsaysmeep

[momo]

are you even aware that sheep/tora are lovers momo

please read

I am aware..but this joke is scummy

[momo]

This would leave Momo's hydra. Which would make sense because of how he caused commotion as you were on the chopping block. However, I can't say anything either way because there's so little content.

I don't like this

VOTE: cytheflyguy

L-1

[momo]

yeah..I am attempting lurking to see how it affects reads

[momo]

My current scum reads are

cy/lalendra ; sheep/tora

however...I do think lynching myself and kop and us flipping green could give a lot of info to town so...y'all decide

[momo]

Sorry everyone for my inactivity...this setup got zero passion for me...the moment I realized how hopelessly plain it was and how the only “interesting” mechanic meant the game ending in 2 days, I just got annoyed with the game...Feel bad for scum because the setup is terribly broken...mathdino, that was amazing...good job town

[momo]

@mod...you are the open list mod...pls make sure that this isn’t or doesn’t become an approved open setup....Def not balanced and def not a setup I would play again...not because of you though -_-

[momo]

@mod...you are the open list mod...pls make sure that this isn’t or doesn’t become an approved open setup....Def not balanced and def not a setup I would play again...not because of you though -_-

I second this, although one detail is that I think the long deadline served to depress us a bit.

The ironic thing is that it's super scumsided if people lynch on scumreads, but it's super townsided if you just play Economics Wonderland.

Considering that the setup got broken though...ppl will know

[momo]

Also I sigged cytheflyguy's comment

that is the perfect quote for your signature considering your mathy meta

[momo]

gg

Winning is fun.

Bonch’s Only posts lol