Open 66 - Quack Multiball (Game over) before 584

[Pink Puppy]

/confirm

[Pink Puppy]

CONFORM!


er.... CONFIRM!

<3

This is now the best game ever.

[Pink Puppy]

Hello. I am female.

Also, what is Near talking about?

vote Near

[Pink Puppy]

Aegor (1) hasdgfas
Near (2) muffinhead, Evilgorrilaz
Glork (1) PyroDwarf
Evilgorillaz (1) zu_Faul
PyroDwarf (2) Cream147, Pink Puppy
hasdgfas (1) Aegor
(No vote) Jdodge, Gorrad, Glork, Near
12 players total. 7 votes to lynch.

Ok Near. I understand.

unvote

Vote: Glork

replacing is an obvious scumm tactic, IGMEOY, Cream.

vote PyroDwarf

Voting Glork is a scum tell.

Plus you have double standards with Glork and Cream. One gets voted, one gets IGMEOY.

[Pink Puppy]

I don't know why you think my vote was random.

[Pink Puppy]

Not sure what I think of Near yet. Plan was bad. Wouldn't scum refuse to answer until they figured out the safe answer? What were the odds of catching scum with this?

The fact that he even put together this plan is confusing to me. Either he is really unfamiliar with sarcasm (when kore says the doc and quack pm's are startingly different), or he is really unfamiliar with the doc/quack pm. Because after getting one myself, I instantly saw kore's sarcasm. Near didn't.

I am in another game with Near, and I have seen him make plans and traps and tests before. So I know he DOES THIS. The game is not over and we're both still alive... so I can't say if this plan-making has anything to do with allignment.

I am torn between thinking Near somehow confused himself (is there any language barrier?) -- since he was confused by the sarcasm, that scum would be more so and he could catch them? OR that he is scum trying to catch someone from the other scum group (or a townie who just made a mistake).

We need to talk to Near more about this.

In the meantime,

unvote; vote cream

Cream says he's not certain about Near and then calls him scum like five times.

[Pink Puppy]

MOST IMPORTANT: Here is my advice to you:

if for some reason, you are not sure which one you are (for example if you were werewolves,

I strongly recommend that you claim quack rather than a doctor

.

Unvote, Vote: Near

. Any

true

Scotsman

Doc/Quack will realize exactly why Near is scum.

Is it just because he didn't realize the pms are the same?

[Pink Puppy]

I still don't know why he made the plan at all... even a mafia/werewolf should have expected the role pms to be the same... thats sort of the point of the game -- that we don't know which we are.

[Pink Puppy]

Many of you guys have COMPLETELY missed my point. I KNEW townies could not tell quacks from doctors. That was exactly where my initial confusion was when I wondered if mod was being sarcastic. Then I even said that I realized mod was being sarcastic when I looked at my pm. Looking at this, you should already KNOW that I KNEW I couldn't tell if I am a quack or a doctor.

This is what I thought you might be doing... but I still don't understand what you wanted docs/quacks to claim. I would have been like... "I don't know."

What claim would have implied scum to you? Either one??

[Pink Puppy]

Many of you guys have COMPLETELY missed my point. I KNEW townies could not tell quacks from doctors. That was exactly where my initial confusion was when I wondered if mod was being sarcastic. Then I even said that I realized mod was being sarcastic when I looked at my pm. Looking at this, you should already KNOW that I KNEW I couldn't tell if I am a quack or a doctor.

This is what I thought you might be doing... but I still don't understand what you wanted docs/quacks to claim. I would have been like... "I don't know."

What claim would have implied scum to you? Either one??

Nope, I wanted all townies to claim quacks. And I thought if you claim doctor after reading my post, you'd be a scum. See below. I guess my test was too confusing...

But you use SCUM as an example of who should claim quack...

If you wanted town to claim quack, and scum to claim doc, you should not have said "If you're a werewolf, claim quack."

[Pink Puppy]

Near (4) Evilgorrilaz, hasdgfas, Jdodge, PyroDwarf
Aegor (1) muffinhead
JDodge (1) Near
Cream147 (2) zu_Faul, Pink Puppy
muffinhead (2) Glork, Aegor
(No vote) Gorrad, Cream147
12 players total. 7 votes to lynch.

PyroDwarf would be a good lynch today, too.

/agree

My previous vote on him was not a joke, as much as he wanted it to be.

[Pink Puppy]

fos evilgorrilaz

You are still voting Near, and now planning to lynch whoever hammers him??

[Pink Puppy]

possibly waste a town lynch because people would use that as evidence against me

Or we could lynch whoever hammers him.

@ EG you are implying we will blame Near's lynch on the hammer voter. And why would we want to do that unless you know Near will come up town? It's like saying you know Near is town. Only scum would know that. And only scum would still be voting someone they know or think is town.

@Glork... I support PyroDwarf lynch, but not sure about muffinhead. Have to go check on him tomorrow. I really think EG is scum too.

In the meantime...

unvote cream; vote pyrodwarf

[Pink Puppy]

Hmm... I forgot about that. True.

[Pink Puppy]

Looking at muffinhead... he blatantly tried to derail Nearwagon. Maybe that was a good thing. It was sort of weird though.

But he did say

When did i ever say that I didnt think near was scum?

Evasive much?

What I want to ask muffinhead is: Do you or did you ever think Near was scum? What did you think of his plan since you didn't comment on it and instead voted Aegor?

[Pink Puppy]

PD's vote was really weird. You're not supposed to admit that you don't care who gets lynched.

I never said or meant to imply this. I saw that case on near as good, so I voted.
@PinkPuppy: You didn't answer my question, Why is my random vote scummy? I don't understand.

PyroDwarf would be a good lynch today, too

Hi, have you looked at Muffin and Pyro?

Seems to be Glork's case against me... Why would Gorrad write "see glork" for my faults?
I'm sorry if my vote on near was opportunistic, but he looked really scummy. People have now moved their votes a bit, and I don't think he's in danger of lynch now.

PD...Your "random" vote on Glork picks him over Cream for no apparent reason. It is doublestandardish.

Also, your vote on Near came at a time when we were getting things straightened out with him, and support for his wagon was starting to wane. He was looking less scummy, IMO, but you were not realizing that.

[Pink Puppy]

Oh and Gorrad probably said that about Glork because he is a notoriously good scum hunter.

[Pink Puppy]

Not necessarily. You really can't say something like that without considering the circumstances of the hammer vote (which BTW you don't know because nobody has done it). Not every hammer is scummy.

[Pink Puppy]

I'm trying to think through this plan of Glork's.

I am wondering how we will "read" the results tomorrow when the mafia and werewolves might not target who they are supposed to, and thus screw up the results (for example: make someone think they are a quack when they are not).

How do we know WTF went on last night when we know mafia and werewolves will lie and do what they want?

Also, since the team only has one kill for 2 ppl, one teammate will look like a doctor anyway when they don't kill their partner.

BUT, I do think we might be able to think up some plan of targets for tonight. We just need to think of one that would make it obvious when someone targets who they are not supposed to.

[Pink Puppy]

I am not cut out for making these sort of plans... it's hard enough for me to understand it... lol.

Anyway, your plan is looking better and better. What about how we pair people up? Should we put suspicious people with other suspicious people? Or randomize?

And I would be okay with Near being the orphan out of this plan. I think the plan was sufficiently stupid and made him such a target that a scum would not want to even try it.

[Pink Puppy]

Still thinking about the possible outcomes -- it looks to me like the plan will not really help THAT much telling us who scum is, but it will minimize damage to town, as it results in a lot of cross-kills or death of a player who would have died anyway from quack protection.

[Pink Puppy]

Sorr for tripple post but I want to clarify post 169 --

And I would be okay with Near being the orphan out of GLORK plan. I think the NEAR plan was sufficiently stupid and made him such a target that a scum would not want to even try it.

fixed which plans i was referring to...

[Pink Puppy]

It was obvious that he tried a trick to find out the scum.
I don't think how his action can be interpreted as somewthing else.

I actually agree with zu_faul.

Maybe it's just because I have played with Near and have seen him try plans and traps and tests to find scum. But when I read Near's plan I was very confused. On the one hand, he could have been showing that he doesn't know what the doc/quack pm looks like (which would indicate he is scum). BUT, I think the whole point of the plan was that he couldn't show he knew the pms were the same, because THAT WAS THE BASIS FOR CATCHING SCUM. (The whole plan unraveled further because it was really unclear to townies what they should claim...) But, I did originally see a way that the plan was not scummy -- that is why I didn't vote NEar and asked for explanation. I didn't say what I thought he intended, because I didn't want to feed him a good excuse if he was scum. But I did have an idea of what he might have meant.

And I keep thinking that this would be a retarded gambit for scum to make. If Near is scum, making this plan puts him in the spotlight and almost got him lynched. In my experience, scum don't like to take that chance. Unless they're about to get lynched or it's endgame or something. Not on D1 for no reason.

[Pink Puppy]

The most protown player at the moment in my opinion is Glork who seems to speak nothing but perfect logic.

Yeah. The problem with Glork is that perfect logic is a Nulltell with him. He's the kind of person you should always investigate ASAP or you'll go the whole game worshiping his towniness.

Cream... Glork is just going around pressuring players, which could be town or scum... we don't know. He's not really giving reasons for the people he finds scummy, so I don't know why you find him SO townish.

I don't really get the case on muffinhead.

I guess you could say muffinhead was overly cautious about not lynching Near -- sort of like trying to play the uber-townie. But I'm not totally convinced yet.

I think that people who find muffinhead scummy should ask him some questions or something to try to make sure. Voting him with no explanation and sitting there does nothing.

[Pink Puppy]

I am not implying anything, just saying if he turns up town we could lynch whoever hammered him.

Hmm...I am going to do something unorthodox here. In one of my other ongoing games, Evil hammered a townie. This obvious double-standard is coming off as really scummy to me. So scummy that he deserves a vote at this point.

I already thought this statement was scummy. Even without the meta.

[Pink Puppy]

Dear Lovely People,

I'd

really

like to hear everybody weigh in on my proposed plan, because if it's not going to happen, I don't want to waste any more time explaining or discussing it. Some degree of yes, no, maybe would be appreciated.

XOXO,
Glork

I will /in to this.

I am wondering though if this plan lets scum find out easier who are quacks and who are docs. That's the only downside I am seeing at the moment. If they know who quacks are they can let them live and kill docs.

Basically though I feel it's a good plan.

[Pink Puppy]

So how should we start pairing people up? Should we put together our four top scummiest?

Mine is:
PD
Cream
Evilgorrillaz
Gorrad or muffinhead (I don't feel strongly on a fourth yet. Gorrad for buttkissing, and muffinhead basically because he has a lot of votes right now, so it seems like a good place to put a suspicious person, even if I don't really see it).

Do you think everyone should make a list like this and the four people with the most votes get paired together?

[Pink Puppy]

Are we no-lynching?

I'd like ot lynch. What's wrong with lynching, and then leaving one person out of the pairings? Like maybe Near.

[Pink Puppy]

I was looking at the last quack mini which had one three person mafia team. Town no-lynched and circled protected N1. They eventually lost the game with all mafia surviving.

I'm going to keep reading, see if I can find anything useful for our game.

[Pink Puppy]

PD - EA
Cream - Gorrad
Aegor - Jdodge
Glork - cow
zufaul - muffin
PP - Near

[Pink Puppy]

I will not be voting no lynch. I accept that you all want it, but I disagree. Just so you know.

I don't give free passes to scum. And I think d1 lynch is important.

[Pink Puppy]

What does it accomplish, Pink Puppy?

Lynching? What it always accomplishes. Killing the town's #1 suspect, while providing info for later after we find out allignment and look at the wagon.

No lynching is relying totally on the Glork plan. From my understanding of it, it increases tendency for cross-kills, and increases kills on a player who would have died already from a quack. It will definitely give us a lot of information to look at tomorrow, but I don't think it's gonna be 100% definitive. It will narrow things down for us, which is good. But I would rather have a normal d1 lynch to add to the info when we are analyzing results tomorrow.

[Pink Puppy]

If someone is killed (lynched or nked) will we see whether they were quack or doc?

Good question.

MOD?

[Pink Puppy]

Sorry, you have done it wrong.

It goes like this:

unvote, vote evilgorrilaz

[Pink Puppy]

Come on guys! Bandwagon starting!

[Pink Puppy]

Near and Muffinhead have not posted a list. HEre is everyone else's list:

Evil-Puppy
asdf-JDodge
Aegor-Zu
Glork-Near
Cream-Muffin
PD-Gorrad

Glork-Zu
Cream-Gorrad
Puppy-Aegor
Near-JD
cow-PD
muffin-evil

Cream - PD
Muffin - Gorrad
Near - Puppy
Zu - Glork
Aegor - JDodge
cow - Evil

Me - Puppy
Cream - Muffin
Gorrad - JDodge
Near - Pyro
Zu - Aegor
Cow - Glork

near-muffin
cream-evil
PD-PP
zu-aegor
jdodge-glork
cow-gorrad

PD - EA
Cream - Gorrad
Aegor - Jdodge
Glork - cow
zufaul - muffin
PP - Near

hasdgfas -Jdodge
Pink Puppy -Cream147
Gorrad -Aegor
zu_Faul -Glork
PyroDwarf -Near
muffinhead -Evilgorrilaz

Zu-Cream
Hasdf-Puppy
Near-Evil
Glork-Aegor
Muffinhead-PD
JDodge-Gorrad

Muffin-PD
Cream-Zu
Gorrad-Puppy
hasdf-jdodge
near-aegor
glork-evil

Muffin-Evil
Zu-Cream
Gorrad-PD
Me-Hasd
Glork-Near
JDodge-PP

[Pink Puppy]

Near (2) hasdgfas, PyroDwarf
Aegor (1) muffinhead
JDodge (1) Near
muffinhead (3) Glork, Aegor, Gorrad
PyroDwarf (1) zu_Faul
zu_Faul (1) Cream147
Evilgorrilaz (1) Pink Puppy
(No vote) Evilgorrilaz
12 players total. 7 votes to lynch.

No lynch

(1/6) JDodge

I guess I would be okay with Glorks, jdodge, zu, cow. Aegor okay, but last choice of the ones I like.

[Pink Puppy]

At this point I don't care which one we go with. The game is dragging. Let's just pick one.

[Pink Puppy]

Glork-Zu
Cream-Gorrad
Puppy-Aegor
Near-JD
cow-PD
muffin-evil

Glork expressed approval at one time.
Zu approves.
I approve.

A lot of people seem to not care and want night to come.

I say we go with JDodge list.

I will not be voting no lynch. The rest of you, feel free to vote no lynch and go to night.

If we go to night, follow the jdodge plan and target who you are paired with according to above.

[Pink Puppy]

Hey guys, we have two scum groups. So if both scum groups succeeded last night, AND both quacks killed, we would have had four deaths.

This is what happened last night:

glork - zu
cream-gorrad
puppy-aegor

Near

- JD
Cow - PD
Muffin -

evil

The only possible way for Near and Evilgorrilaz to die is if JD and muffin are scum or quacks. If they were real doctors, they would have protected their partner.

Best thing for us to do today is lynch one of them. In the system we have going now, quacks let the kills go through for mafia/werewolves. We need to eliminate anyone who might be a quack, because they are either scum or quack. If they are scum, we have caught scum. If they're quack, we have eliminated one townie NK for the next night.

Even if worse case scenario (muffin and JD are quacks), we will eliminate any possibility for the scum to hide their night-kill. So we will know exactly who is scum.

[Pink Puppy]

Gorrad, I know. You present an interesting possibility by saying any smart scum wouldn't kill the person they're paired with. You could be right. That would mean muffin and JD are quacks and neither scum kill went through.

But isn't there the possibilty that one scum group killed muffin's partner, even though muffin himself is scum and didn't want to be so obv. as to kill his partner?

[Pink Puppy]

I'm saying the only way a kill goes through is if the mafias target someone who is paired with a quack, or paired with the opposing team's mafia.

It's pretty impossible for the mafias to guess who is quack during D1 since we don't even know.

It's easier for them to try to target someone paired with a scummy person (in hopes they are mafia and thus not protecting their paired partner).

Once again, muffin/JD are quacks or mafia, neither of which we need around in this game.

I'm still trying to think about how this will play out. If JD/muffin are both quacks, and we lynch them the next two days, will we have time to lynch the mafia/quacks before we get NKed? I think the answer is yes because after both quacks are gone it should be obvious who is mafia, and we can protect the non-mafiates, and lynch mafiates during the day.

[Pink Puppy]

Mod, if someone was killed twice at night, like from a quack and a mafia, would we know it?

[Pink Puppy]

Gorrad, so what do you want to do? Have muffin/JD agree to no night choice and then pair the rest of us up?

[Pink Puppy]

I'm starting to not like you. Maybe that's because you voted me.

[Pink Puppy]

I don't like the fact that you voted me because I don't agree with you. We were having a discussion. I was listening to you and trying to figure stuff out. There was no need ot vote me for that. If you want to vote me for other reasons I would understand... but just because I don't agree with your strategy? That's BS.

And I feel that abandoning the pairings now is bad idea that benefits scum.

[Pink Puppy]

Gorrad. Saying scum would not deviate from the plan is WIFOM. Saying scum WOULD DEFINITELY deviate from the plan is also WIFOM.

The only safe conculsion to come to is muffin and JD are either scum or quacks. They are in no way capable of being doctors.

I would rather kill someone who is either a quack or scum. Aiming at the rest of us will only make it possible to kill a doctor. That is lame.

[Pink Puppy]

If I was doctor, I wouldn't target my partner because doing so would out me as scum.

WHAT?

Is this a slip of some sort?

What did you mean to say? Because I can't figure it out.

[Pink Puppy]

I could see scum killing Near. Several people thought he was almost surely townie. I did.

[Pink Puppy]

muffinhead (1) JDodge
zu_Faul (1) Gorrad
JDodge (2) muffinhead, Glork
(No vote) hasdgfas, Pink Puppy, Cream147, Aegor, zu_Faul, PyroDwarf
10 players. 6 votes to lynch.

If I was doctor, I wouldn't target my partner because doing so would out me as scum.

WHAT?

Is this a slip of some sort?

What did you mean to say? Because I can't figure it out.

I meant if I was scum. Sorry. That was honestly just a typo.

.

Can someone tell me sice when u spell doctor as s-c-u-m. I now its a typo and it makes sense with the word scum but to make such a mistake i really dunno how.

:Good Posting:

Um, I don't know about this "typo" of Gorrad's. Could be totally legit typo and doesn't mean anything. It seems to me that this sort of typo results when you write a sentence one way and then change the meaning without changing al the parts. So it's half of one and half of another. That sort of thing has happened to me before. Usually when I'm scum trying to say "If I were scum..." You have to be very careful when wording things like that to sound like you're imagining yourself being scum, and not like you are scum. It's dangerous, and I usually end up rewriting stuff like that a bunch of times. That's where a typo like Gorrad's would come from, I think.

But I really couldn't tell for sure.

That's why I asked what he meant. And how that typo came to be.

It's sort of funny though that he is trying to say "If I were scum..." (implying he is town), but he actually says "If I were doctor..." (which implies he is scum).

I agree with zu. Muffin sounds legit. His grammar sucks, but I don't think he's faking. I really don't think he's reading over anything that he writes, which makes it pretty hard to conceal scumminess. And I haven't seen him be flamingly scummy at all.

[Pink Puppy]

I say lynch Gorrad, have muffin and JD not target anyone, and have nobody target them. We can let scum kill them or crosskill them, but let's not help them die by asking them to target each other.

I guess then the rest of us use our noggin to target who we think is most townish.

I would sort of like ot continue the pairings, but maybe that gives scum too much info? Anyone better at stats please chime in...

[Pink Puppy]

I say lynch Gorrad, have muffin and JD not target anyone, and have nobody target them. We can let scum kill them or crosskill them, but let's not help them die by asking them to target each other.

I guess then the rest of us use our noggin to target who we think is most townish.

I would sort of like ot continue the pairings, but maybe that gives scum too much info? Anyone better at stats please chime in...

So you want to lynch me AND use my plan? I lol.

Somehow, seems like poetic justice.

[Pink Puppy]

Agreed hasd. This is getting ridiculous.

Look, it's really easy.

We don't target anyone

. We let JD and Muffin target each other. If both die, then their alignment is revealed. The end. If neither one dies, then they are a mafia sub-team. Did I miss something? It's really easy.

Also, I don't like PP or JDodge.

(bolding mine)

You want JD and muffin to target each other and the rest of us don't target??

Seems like the worst possible plan to me. And the most pro-scum.

[Pink Puppy]

What is the point of declaring if we don't pair? It seems like that would just let scum know who to kill.

[Pink Puppy]

Let's lynch Aegor.

I don't know how we're going to pair up since we'll have odd number, but I don't want to no-lynch again. I didn't want to the first time, so I really don't want to now.

vote aegor

[Pink Puppy]

What she said.

[Pink Puppy]

I disagree with that list, as it pairs me with Aegor.

I don't understand this either.

Why is that bad? Even if you think he's scum?

The only reason I can see anyone objecting to a pairing is if they are scum being paired with someone they think is scum from the other team. If they're paired with their buddy they will know it and place their kill elsewhere. But if they decide the kill who they are paired with they risk outing themself as scum if they kill scum.

I am starting to think Gorrad legitimately think Aegor is scum, even though Gorrad is scum too.

@zu... yes, I am also E_K... I have to phase out this alt because it is too confusing for me to have one. I always pull a DGB.

[Pink Puppy]

I object to the pairing because it puts me against someone who will kill me. I don't like that. I mean, I'll do so if y'all really want me to, but I seriously would rather have him paired with someone like PD who I also find VERY scummy.

Of course, best solution is to lynch Aegor. I really like that idea. Let's do that.

Benefits of the random factor is that the scum won't know who's being protected. If we have a list, they can use what they know to plan the best possible kill. If we don't then they have to try and guess who will target who.

I did answer Glork in that we've been through that discussion several times. My ideas on the matter haven't changed. If he wants to reread my earlier posts, he can be my guest.

This post makes me think I'm right:

That Gorrad is scum and Gorrad thinks Aegor is scum so doesn't want to be paired for a crosskill.

Seriously, there's no other reason to object to a pairing. I would think being paired with a scummy player actually increases your chances of survival because the scum wouldn't want to be too obv (also if they kill you and you're scum they've convicted themselves).

If more people were supporting some of this stuff, I might not be so afraid we'd lose, but as such if I stop pushing this point, right now I think it'd just die out. Which is BAD.

This reads to me of scare-mongering. "Do my plan or town is doomed!" "Lynch me and town will lose!"

Me no like.

unvote; vote Gorrad

[Pink Puppy]

Since we will have uneven number after lynching Gorrad, how would circle protect be?

Aegor
Cream
Glork
hascow
PP
PyroDwarf
Zu

Everyone protects the person below on the list (I put it alphabetically for fairness), and then Zu protects Aegor to finish the circle.

Muffin and JD... don't target anyone.

I remember from my unthorough reading of the last quack game they circle protected. It actually didn't work for them, so I'm gonna go and see why. Maybe there is a problem with circle protecting, but I can't see what that might be.

[Pink Puppy]

You just dodged the question again.

[Pink Puppy]

It really makes no sense to me that Gorrad is so convinced that he will be NK.

Others have already brought up that Gorrad also thinks scum will kill the quacks. If the sucm kill the quacks, they cannot kill Gorrad. So why is he so scared?

Second, why would the scum kill gorrad when the town wants him lynched? I know that as scum, I would never NK someone I thought I could get lynched.

Gorrad's stance does not make sense to me.

[Pink Puppy]

I find it VERY interesting that Gorrad puts together an alternate list for circle protection after I already made a list alphabetically.

Why has Gorrad changed from an alphabetic list to one of his choosing?

Since we will have uneven number after lynching Gorrad, how would circle protect be?

Aegor
Cream
Glork
hascow
PP
PyroDwarf
Zu

Everyone protects the person below on the list (I put it alphabetically for fairness), and then Zu protects Aegor to finish the circle.

Muffin and JD... don't target anyone.

I'm going to detail it out for ya. This is assuming I'm lynched, but of course it still works if I'm not.

Right now we have :
hasdgfas
Pink Puppy
Cream147
Aegor
zu_Faul
Glork
PyroDwarf

muffinhead
Jdodge

Where the latter two are quacks or scum.

Now, say everyone Hasd-PD targets the person below them on the list. PD protects Hasd. Muffin and JD target no one. Who isn't protected here? Muffin and JD.

Now say we lynch JDodge:
hasdgfas
Pink Puppy
Cream147
Gorrad
Aegor
zu_Faul
Glork
PyroDwarf

muffinhead

Now everyone targets the person below them. PD targets Hasd. Muffin targets no one. Who isn't protected? Muffin.

In either case, the only non-protected people are the people who are either quacks or scum. I fail to see a problem with that.

[Pink Puppy]

Well I think Gorrad's list is from the player list in the first post.

But still, what about that list is better than the alphabetical one I put forth?

[Pink Puppy]

By the way, I don't plan on following any protection circles tonight. Last night, and today's proceedings have convinced me that my proposed plan for N1 was an enormous mistake. I think there was a HUGE potential payoff if things went well, but I already fear that the risk was too great for the reward.

What did you want to happen from your plan?

I was really hoping for a little more help from you today since you were the one with the plan. I don't want to put it all on you, because that's not fair. We all agreed to it and everything. But since it was your idea, you must have envisioned... something else happening.

I would be willing to go with a circle protect or pairing if we really thought it would help to determine scum. Otherwise I would rather choose for myself who I want to protect.

[Pink Puppy]

I still would be happy with a Gorrad lynch.

But I could also go for a JD lynch. It appeals to me because the plan results make JD and muffin either scum or quack. And muffin looks town to me. So if I was to lynch one of them it would definitely be JD.

[Pink Puppy]

I don't think JD's scum, just a damned lurker. It means that Muffin, who I find more likely to be scum, has a shot at being protected. AND it means that scum will choose more pro-town players than JD and Muffin. I'm all for scattershotting, but not if it involves JD/Muffin protecting.

If I'm really the only one who finds JD not that scummy, I'll vote him. For now, though, my vote stays on the obvious scum.

I like how Gorrad goes from being convinced that both JD and muffin are quacks, to thinking muffin is more likely scum. When, I think everyone else agrees on the opposite, muffin is prob quack, and if someone's scum it's prob JD.

I still want to lynch Gorrad, but I am starting to see that maybe he is just misguided (AKA totally wrong and assinine).

I have also seen JD be a lot more involved in games than this, and I don't really know why he isn't around more. I have been in games with him and gotten strong town vibes. But I am not getting that this time.

unvote; vote JD

Also, I am fine with everyone picking own night actions. The more the scum/town ratio tilts in scum favor, the more I like the night actions to be hidden. And I know who I would want to protect.

[Pink Puppy]

I meant who I

would

want to protect if the choice were up to me and we weren't following a plan. It wasn't a slip.

[Pink Puppy]

I approve of that message.

[Pink Puppy]

Gorrad (2) JDodge, zu_Faul
Aegor (1) Gorrad
JDodge (5) Aegor, Glork, Pink Puppy, muffinhead, Cream147
(No vote) PyroDwarf, Sir Tornado
10 players. 6 votes to lynch.

I have to read the last 2 pages to see what is going on

Why isn't JD dead yet?

[Pink Puppy]

So there's a couple of blanket questions I want to answer while I have the chance.

1)I think muffin is town whether JD is scum or not.
2)I think Gorrad, Cream and PD are scummy.

How did I pick my list yesterday?
It was a combo for me. I tried to find a balance between putting scummy players together and putting people who I thought were flaming each other. Some of my pairs fit one category, some fit the other, some fit both to varying degrees.

[Pink Puppy]

Muffin: What useful contributions are you talking about that we might miss if you are NKed?

I haven't voted because I want to make sure we agree on plan of action before night falls (I want to vote JD which would be hammer right now)

Your latest attack on JDodge is BS. The reason why I want to lynch is because I see JDodge playing this game like mafia 70 (where he was town). It is impossible to say whether he is town or scum and I am pretty sure he will lurk and not contribute (and not be replaced) throughout the game regardless his alignment. That's just the way JDodge plays when he's not really into a particular game. You just have to accept that he is going to get lynched at some point and move on.

Why would you rather lynch JD than replace him if you think he's just disinterested townie?

[Pink Puppy]

I don't think that's what muffin said. Although it's hard to tell with him.

[Pink Puppy]

He can still answer it. I don't think I really ruined it for him...

[Pink Puppy]

I agree with Glork that it is unlikely for scum buddies to try to buss their partner to lynch at this point.

But I also think that you can distance or vote your partner at a point where other sh*t is happening, so that a bandwagon doesn't get started and there is no real danger of lynching. You get distance points without the risk of losing your buddy.

[Pink Puppy]

I'm sorry I haven't been posting that much but I really think this day is dragging on too far and that we have gotten good reads on people and arrived at a good plan. So let's just end the day already.

[Pink Puppy]

I did it again.

[Pink Puppy]

Do I really have to protect Zu again tonight?

If zu is scum, you could be the other quack.

[Pink Puppy]

Just keep that in mind.

[Pink Puppy]

Also likely Gorrad is JD's partner since he insisted muffin AND JD were town yesterday.

[Pink Puppy]

ANNOYING ALTS FTW!!!!!!!!111111111111

[Pink Puppy]

Is it possible that Elmo is not scum, and the mafia/wolves targetted his partner hoping he hadn't re-read and followed the "plan"?

Because I see no indication that he even read anything. Has he even posted yet?

They could have gambled and killed his partner, hoping he wouldn't do a night choice or wouldn't follow the plan as he didn't know about it.

Who is them?

Who do you think?

Mafia/werewolves...

[Pink Puppy]

I want to know why nobody but me thought of the fact that:

1) Elmo might not have submitted a choice sine he hasn't even posted in the thread.

2)With three scum left, nobody should be voting so soon.

[Pink Puppy]

Also, I think scum are cream gorrad and zu.

[Pink Puppy]

I think it's good possibility.

I think it's likely he didn't submit a choice last night. I think it's likely the scum gambled on that.

[Pink Puppy]

I think it's good possibility.

I think it's likely he didn't submit a choice last night. I think it's likely the scum gambled on that.

You seem to think that is more porbable than that he is scum, correct (otherwise you wouldn't be thinking gorradcreamme are scum)?

I guess it's the wagon speed that makes me think that.

[Pink Puppy]

Consider this Glork: If I was scum, what would I get from Quicklynching Elmo?

It was not even a real quicklynch as it wasn't on the first opportunity. I waited for a reply. It is very possible that someone unvoted in the time to the answer. Why should I do this as scum?

1) you could be sacrificing yourself so that you can NK Glork with no extra detriment for your teammate. (as you're already heading for lynch).

2) How long did you really wait? Not long enough for elmo to actually answer.

[Pink Puppy]

Let's also talk about creamscum.

Cream put on the third vote, and now says he didn't realize it was L-1 vote. Which seems like a TOTAL LIE to me because the other two votes were right there on the same page as his. So saying you didn't realize the VC doesn't jive with me. Plus, assuming 3 scum makes voting so soon RIDICULOUS. Especially with other votes on, even if you don't know how many.

[Pink Puppy]

I knew it was the third vote. I didn't know it was L-1. Yes, putting that vote on wasn't the smartest thing to do, looking at it now, but I was absolutely sure that Elmo was mafia at the time. You've done enough to give me slight doubts about that (though I'm still pretty sure that Elmo is mafia), but I didn't suggest it was the right time to hammer at that stage.

It's D3 of a mini. You know the numbers are going down. How many did you think we had to lynch?

If you didn't know, you should have counted the remaining players and divided by half. Anybody would do that. I always do.

For you to pretend you didn't know how many to lynch is ridiculous.

I would seriously consider lynching cream before zu or gorrad...

[Pink Puppy]

Cream should die today. I don't think it's likely that he "forgot" to protect Gorrad.

Plus his voting yesterday was horrible.

And in the beginning of the game, Pyrodwarf (Elmo) voted glork and only did IGMEOY to Cream when Glork and Cream did the same thing. Double standard for scum buddy?

Any objections?

[Pink Puppy]

It's not L-1. I haven't voted you. I want to hear from the remaing players before we lynch you. Because we need all the info we can get for tomorrow.

If you tried to kill Glork, that clears zu, and means he is a real doc and not a quack.

Thanks for the info.

For me, that means the remaining werewolf is one of Aegor/Glork.

[Pink Puppy]

Let's see...

Cream=mafia

zu=doc

Of the remaining three (PP, Glork, Aegor), one is a wolf, one is a doc and one is a quack.

If zu is a doc, that means Glork is NOT a quack. A quack would have killed zu on N1. Glork has to be either doc or wolf.

PP - ?
Glork (NOT QUACK)
Aegor - ?

Glork, if you are protown, you can be sure you are not the quack.

Which makes me the quack and Aegor the wolf.

If Glork and zu protect each other tonight, neither of them can be killed.

Aegor's only recourse is to kill me tonight and out himself, or to do a no-kill.


OTHER SCENARIO: If Glork is the wolf...

That would mean either I or Aegor is a quack. Which doesn't make sense. If one of us was a quack, the other would be dead.

So that doesn't work.

No.

Glork is a doc

I am a quack.

Aegor is wolf.

The end.

Yay.

[Pink Puppy]

And for the benefit of other players who cannot assume I am town.

The wolf has to be one of me or Aegor.

That is because the quack has to be one of me or Aegor, and we should have killed the other long ago if the other was not the wolf.

So zu and Glork protect each other tonight. I will "protect" Aegor (as I have done every night) though I know I am a quack now.

Aegor can only kill me, which will implicate himself. Or do a no-kill.

Glork and zu, you are confirmed pro-town docs. You will live until tomorrow no matter what and be able to decide the endgame.

[Pink Puppy]

So I was going back through Aegor's posts and looking for his interaction with JD as well as scummy behavior in general.

Most important things to me were how he opposed Near's trap and tried hard to lynch Near. Near's trap could have been very worrying to scum.

Him and JD were very against Near. And Aegor posts things connecting himself to JD.

JDodge's post made perfect sense. You told scum what to do. You sprang the trap you yourself set.

I replied to this, although you asked JDodge. You can read my answer, which will be the same as his.

lol

Why is Aegor answering for JD? And how does he know JD's answer would be the same?

---

Aegor was also reluctant to follow Glork's plan, thinking it wouldn't accomplish anything.

I guess I'm not sure about how useful the process will be in gathering information. It seems so drawn out and convoluted that I can't imagine myself being able to glimpse helpful information/connections about/between people through their pairings.

---

D2 Aegor argues for a long time about JD and muffin should target each other. Which I think is very anti-town in itself. I'll hilight one of Aegor's arguments here:

I'm confused here, perhaps I'm not seeing this. Have we agreed that these two are either quacks or scum? If they target each other, then we either lose two quacks, in which case we don't have to worry about the presence of the inept doctors after this, in addition to getting a great chance of hitting scum tomorrow, or one/two of them die(s) and is (are) revealed as scum. Or, neither one dies and we know that they are a scumteam. I don't see what town has to lose. Then again, I don't want to do this if it is such a terrible idea, so please point out any major problems.

If they are both quacks, which is the worst-case scenario, then scum can't bother with that anymore. We can finally get to scumhunting, which I find way more effective than these elaborate pairings and plans. In addition, with no quacks, it will be easier to do so (scumhunt). Also, remember that the two opposing mafia groups want to lynch the other mafia first.

EBWOP: OR, if they are both quacks, we get an additional two bodies due to mafia kills (assuming that the mafia groups think they are both quacks as well). With four kills tonight, we will end up, again in a worst-case scenario, with 2 WWs, 2 mafia, and 2 doctors. Although that is a precarious position, I honestly think that the town will be helped by the mafia groups which are desperate to eliminate each other by that point.

---

Then Aegor avoids commenting about JD for a while as he goes after Gorrad and muffin, but ultimately ends up bussing JD hard.

Aegor also jokingly refers to his scumbuddy... which in my experience is not a joke that pro-town players make. It's sort of a I'm-so-unscummy-that-i-can-joke-about-being-scum--see?

Fine, I'll talk with him tonight to make sure that we're on the same page, because he hasn't been very helpful today, otherwise I wouldn't be in this position.

---

Plays dumb yesterday:

Wait, what is going on? lol, that was a quick day. I'm not sure how much I can glean from JD's lynch, partly because he was kind of lurking (which means that some town people could have reasonably been unwilling to lynch him).

However, I don't understand why Elmo is scum. Couldn't he have targeted scum the first night and town the second (as quack)? I really feel like I don't understand the mechanics of this game very well.

Also note how he says we can't learn much from JD's lynch. Like -- don't go looking for his partner please!

[Pink Puppy]

I know I'm posting a billion times in a row today...

But I just realized we can't lose now. Even if you lynch me tomorrow, Glork and zu protect each other at night and then lynch Aegor the next day to win.

[Pink Puppy]

Aegor, if you are telling hte truth, I don't understand why you didn't follow the plan.

You say you didn't know there was one.

Have you not been reading?

[Pink Puppy]

Just to make sure here...

TONIGHT'S PLAN

PROTECT WHO YOU ARE PAIRED WITH AS FOLLOWS:

GLORK - ZU
AEGOR - PP

[Pink Puppy]

And Aegor, why did you choose to protect Glork?

[Pink Puppy]

Wait maybe I have forgotten something...

Aegor, if you are not the wolf, that means you and I are both docs. That also means that the wolf is one of Glork/zu. But why is the wolf zu and not Glork in that scenario?

In any case, I think we have to think very carefully tomorrow about who to lynch. I think it would also be smart to look at everyone's posts in relation to JD. I have already looked at Aegor's and found some good ties. I'm not sure if there's anything more convincing in Glork or zu's posts to tie either of them to JD. But I think we should take that into consideration.

But overall, I am leaning toward thinking Aegor is scum since saying he didn't follow the plan is a convenient excuse... and really the only one he could use if he was scum. I will try to be objective about it, but that's the way I feel right now.

[Pink Puppy]

I would think cream would want to screw the other scum who outed him rather than just screw the town to help the other scum team win.

I mean, you're right. He could be lying. But I find it much more likely that he would want to get revenge on the other scum team.

[Pink Puppy]

Also, does anyone else have trouble believing Aegor is so lost in the game mechanics?

I am not one who has a tight grasp on these things, yet I am ahead of him. I have a hard time believing Aegor is so fail at this game. (I mean that as a compliment to Aegor).

[Pink Puppy]

I'm here. I guess I have nothing else to say until tomorrow. We should all be here then.

vote Cream

Amd I think that lynches him, since he is voting for himself.

[Pink Puppy]

I don't think Glork or zu commented on my suspicion that Aegor is too smart to be so fail at these game mechanics.

Any thoughts?

[Pink Puppy]

I don't think Glork or zu commented on my suspicion that Aegor is too smart to be so fail at these game mechanics.

Any thoughts?

[Pink Puppy]

I'm thinking Aegor, but want to give a little read to Glork and zu's posts as connected to JD.

[Pink Puppy]

Just trying to get through my re-read...

Here zu faul clearly states he thinks Cream is mafia, which would make sense for him to target the person Cream is paired with and out Cream as mafia.

We'll start with these:

Who do you think are the most likely candidates for JD's scumbuddy?

Gorrad. For talking all Day how JD was town and then bussing him in the end. It could be that Elmo is with JD, but it would be hard to say as both JD and PD lurked hard. Also, it is more probable that PD/Elmo is Mafia.

How many Mafia do you think railed JD to death? Which are your best candidates for Mafiates?

2 (well that wasn't hard. 3 of the players not on the wagon are confirmed in their roles, and the remaining player was me) Mafia: Cream. Reasons, see yesterday.

But I like how no one else wants to answer these questions.

[Pink Puppy]

Okay, I got a few pages into the game and then decided not to read all 39 pages. However, a few things I noticed about zu were what PP pointed out (I think I get it: If zu thought that cream was mafia, then he would target whomever cream was supposed to in order to expose cream, correct?), that he constructed bogus cases involving ultra-fake Freudian slips (namely on Gorrad and PP), and also seemed very convinced in his beliefs when it was convenient/beneficial (Gorrad comes to mind).

Yes, you are understanding me right about "If zu thought cream was mafia then he would target whomever cream was supposed to in order to expose cream."

One more thing though... zu seemed to suspect Cream right from the beginning of the game. If zu is a werewolf he could have exposed Cream much earlier. Why didn't he?

Could be because zu thought scum shouldn't cross-kil until much later in the game?

Mod: Do quacks protect scum or just act neutral toward them

I pretty surprised you're asking questions like this on page 39. Maybe you are telling the truth about being FAIL at these game mechanics.

[Pink Puppy]

Where is Glork? I miss him.

[Pink Puppy]

Pretty sure I am going to vote Aegor at this point. I see too much evidence against him. The only way for him to be town is if he got confused and varied from the plan. Which... is hard to believe. Plus he has a good connection to JD.

I see zu as a possible candidate, but not as strong as Aegor. Plus two other players are voting Aegor, so it seems like we should just end this game.

I don't see Glork as scum, so if he is, he has fooled me.

[Pink Puppy]

I just remembered, in case PP is scum, we will probably arrive at no lynch, as it is never good for scum to hammer their "partner" at this stage.

Posts like this give me pause about zu.

It's like he's saying that if I don't vote for Aegor I must be scum.

[Pink Puppy]

Aegor... on a meta level... we had major cat fights in our recent newbie game where we were both town. This game, you don't seem to hate me. Are you buddying up to me, or have I just been less bitchy in provoking you?

[Pink Puppy]

Should I just do it?

I keep thinking about this, but the more I do, the farther I get from feeling confident. The last game that I over-thought the lylo, I ended up picking wrong. I'm thinking I should just go with my first instinct -- Aegor.

[Pink Puppy]

Aegor (2) Glork, zu_Faul
zu_Faul (1) Aegor
(No vote) Pink Puppy
4 alive. 3 to lynch.

Glork, you're not at all worried about zu?

[Pink Puppy]

vote Aegor

I think it is best since the only way he can't be scum is if he didn't follow the plan. And I think town should be able to rely on other townies following the plan.

[Pink Puppy]

Fun and interesting game, Kore! Thanks for modding.

This makes the second game in a row that I have effectively screwed Aegor when we are both town.

WAIT... did cream lie about hitting Glork that night? That bastard...