Open 709: Masons and Monks (Game Over)

[Mathdino]

the start of day 2 with Dino and Koto... that was TvT. I really did not like d1 Dave, and d2 Dave is just as bad. Dunn is pretty well non-existent, as is Assemble... I wanna push one of these two before we start running people up.
VOTE: Dunn

This is a strange vote and a strange defence of Koto that I do not understand. You can't just slap "TvT" labels on things. That kind of interaction needs justification.

[mozamis]

I don't really understand how it's Archie who's making you question the Dunn vote. Not that I agree with it either at the moment, but can you explain that a little more, you two?

i'm suspicious of archwing and he seems keen on voting Dunn - or any lurker lol

[Archwing]

I'm keen on Dunn and Assemble because those are the two who I know the least about in this game. Yeah, I haven't been that active, and I take full accountability for it.
I know Assemble is a lurker, and that just makes my (our) job harder in reading him. So yeah, that is where I want my vote to be right now.

As per my TvT comment.. Not really sure the confusion, but lemme explain. I've had difficulties looking at interactions like that in the past. I've been wrong plenty of times. I forget which game I played, but it was recently, and I saw a VERY similar interaction happen, and I was vocal about thinking it was TvS. And I was rather confident in that... someone had responded to me about how TvS is usually the hardest interaction to find, and that usually a gut read TvS interaction is actually TvT. That is how I ended up with that.

[Archwing]

Vote Count (1.8)

Almost50 [0]

Archwing [0]

Assemblerotws [4]

davesaz, Kotoko Utsugi, Archwing, JaydragonKing

[LYNCHED]

Beefster [7]

Mathdino,

Almost50

,

talon152

, Raya36, momo, mozamis,

Beefster

davesaz [0]

Dunnstral [1]

Assemblerotws

JaydragonKing [0]

Kotoko Utsugi [0]

Mathdino [0]

momo [0]

mozamis [0]

Raya36 [0]

talon152 [0]

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Not Voting:

Dunnstral

I do think that the wagon has scum on it, but I think it's mafia-driven and Beef's partner isn't on there, unless there was bussing, causing the self-hammer(as others have pointed out).
I think (at least) one in {dino, momo, moz, raya} is mafia, then. I feel alright with Moz for now, until I re-read. I'm sus on Dino... I feel like he's been too strong this game, like.. He's sort of taken charge and people are following blindly without questioning him.
FoS Mathdino
I still don't really like momo's slot, personally. I'd have to meta dive to really understand, but I gotta re-read stuff in here first. Raya has seemed pretty good to me in d2.

The next thing I wanna look at is the night kills... especially the talon kill

[Mathdino]

He's sort of taken charge and people are following blindly without questioning him.

Yo I would honestly prefer people not do this

I did this d1 because I was pretty damn sure I was right

It's hard to recreate magic and I'm concerned people are waiting for me to do something

Jay following me is within his meta but everyone else needs to step up

[Archwing]

He's sort of taken charge and people are following blindly without questioning him.

Yo I would honestly prefer people not do this

I did this d1 because I was pretty damn sure I was right

It's hard to recreate magic and I'm concerned people are waiting for me to do something

Jay following me is within his meta but everyone else needs to step up

Right. And I do believe there is an expectation on others to step up and match your level (myself included), but I also think you have a very powerful influence and are using that to your advantage, hence my FoS

[Archwing]

Like take for example how you tried to get everyone to not look for associatives today. i get it's strat talk, but I dunno. you just have a presence this game and you aren't NOT using it either

[JaydragonKing]

Why would you not use and advantage you have over others?

[Archwing]

Right now..if I were to choose a scum team from this list, I would proably take a50 and dave...they are both active, townread...trying to game solve (which could be faked within their playstyle), would have no prob bussing me (an expendable scum member) to stay strong...and are currently pretty widely townread.

For those asking about how I play scum... (WARNING: SELF_META....I AM TRYING YO BE HONEST) I haven't had a recent scum game..However as town, I am known for posting without thinking...I know that once, I have voted the previous days lynch (I corrected it in the next post but still)....As thoughts come, they get written down.

For scum, I haven't played in a while, but when I came back to this site, I bought a whiteboard to draft out ideas as scum....my posts will probably be more thought out.

I do this because I think it is the most valuable way to post for the different factions...For town, my posts may seem scummy, I may defend someone very hard, but it will always be because I believe it and I think that is what town needs.

As scum, I will put more thought because I need to hide, and that's just the way it will be.

This and #84 look a little bit off to me. I don't really follow the logic.

Meta defense (when there's nothing to defend) is strange. It's almost like he's trying to WIFOM with the gambler's fallacy.

VOTE: momo
Serious vote.

I am thinking more clearly now. probably.

VOTE: momo
I think he's playing dumb on #100 and #127. wtf on #270. demands jay put their vote on me on #276
That's all for now.

fos: A50 for misrepresenting Archwing.
fos: JaydragonKing for being self-conscious about perceived alignment and voting/omgusing everybody like a force of chaos.

momo is not WW.

[Archwing]

Why would you not use and advantage you have over others?

It's hard to recreate magic and I'm concerned people are waiting for me to do something

[Mathdino]

My experience is that associative hunting in Mason games is always a mistake and is scumsided

If you think there's scum motivation in HOW I'm using that presence, lay it on me

Now on reflection what you're saying is honestly indicative that scum is hiding

We're not speedlynching Kotoko so you guys find a lurker that's scummy and I'll sheep

[Raya36]

I think we should definitely be looking at the wagon. I forget who said it but someone mentioned that it would be odd for Beef to have self-hammered if their partner had the option to hammer for towncred so it's probably most likely their partner is on the wagon.

i think i said that. thing is, beef may have just self hammered to shut down discussion as he said. or maybe he was pissed off with his partner. or basically was just sulking rage quitting.
who knows?
the reason i say all this is because i'm struggling to see scum on beefs wagon.

Yeah, I definitely agree. Since I pretty much townread the entire wagon I'm more inclined to think that his partner is off the wagon (or I'm really bad at reading people). So I guess he just wanted to shut discussion down or something. My best guess for the partner is still Archwing for sure. I'll definitely need to reevaluate at some point though since I'm sure at least one scum from the other team is probably on the wagon.

As per my TvT comment.. Not really sure the confusion, but lemme explain. I've had difficulties looking at interactions like that in the past. I've been wrong plenty of times. I forget which game I played, but it was recently, and I saw a VERY similar interaction happen, and I was vocal about thinking it was TvS. And I was rather confident in that... someone had responded to me about how TvS is usually the hardest interaction to find, and that usually a gut read TvS interaction is actually TvT. That is how I ended up with that.

Wait, so you're saying you're reading them as TvS therefore they are TvT? Am I reading this wrong?

I feel alright with Moz for now, until I re-read. I'm sus on Dino... I feel like he's been too strong this game, like.. He's sort of taken charge and people are following blindly without questioning him.
FoS Mathdino
I still don't really like momo's slot, personally. I'd have to meta dive to really understand, but I gotta re-read stuff in here first. Raya has seemed pretty good to me in d2.

It seems like you're townreading the people who recently wanted to vote you (me and Moz) and putting a little sus towards the most vocal and difficult to mislynch player.

Moving my vote back here now
VOTE: Archwing

[Mathdino]

What's Archwings motivation in throwing shade at the most difficult to lynch player in general regardless of my alignment?

[Archwing]

Wait, so you're saying you're reading them as TvS therefore they are TvT? Am I reading this wrong?

Yeah, in a way. Like, you know how this entire game, people have been saying "momo is acting pretty scummy. he's obvtown" kind of like that.

I'm townreading you because you have good reads, you're being analytical and laying everything out. sue me.

I'm townreading moz, half on meta and half on content (again related to yours) just like how he is laying everything out there.

I'm susing the most dominant personality in the game right now because no one else seems to think that he skated entirely through d1 and is on a trajectory to do it again through d2, without any suspicion. Like yes, is Dino town? there is a good chance. however I think it's pretty bad play to just let someone slide through like that... if you leave them to late game, without any pressure, you're gonna have a hard time finding a scumtell on d4 while you've been riding their coat tails for the last 3 days.

[Mathdino]

Hey Archwing do you think hypothetical scum me knew or even expected beefster to flip scum
Trying to get an impression of your view on that scenario

[Raya36]

What's Archwings motivation in throwing shade at the most difficult to lynch player in general regardless of my alignment?

Could potentially encourage someone else (maybe the other scum team) to dig in and find something to push, maybe a few townies follow along too. I find it not that hard to encourage a push on a very vocal IC since people will always have a certain amount of suspicion of them just for being vocal, experienced and townleading.

@Arch Fair enough, I suppose. I still find it a bit odd that Moz and I were the ones that wanted to vote you and are the two off the wagon you townread. Could be a coincidence I guess.

[Archwing]

Hey Archwing do you think hypothetical scum me knew or even expected beefster to flip scum
Trying to get an impression of your view on that scenario

does Mafia!dino think WW!Beef flips scum? it's possible. I don't see why town!dino analyzes that differently than maf!dino. the thing about multiball is that everyone needs to scum hunt, so I think there is genuine intentions for everyone.

[Archwing]

when you began wagon-ing beef, did you believe he was scum?

[Mathdino]

I never truly believe any of my reads until the flip xD

I sure as hell didn't think he was town, and that was enough.

I guess I'm asking because I actually don't think it's necessarily true that everyone needs to scumhunt. Would I not run the risk of getting shot by Beefster's team by being as right as I was?

@Raya: I'm not seeing that. I'm not an easy lynch no matter what. Why wouldn't he as scum just remove me at night? What's his motivation for doing this during the day?

[Raya36]

@Raya: I'm not seeing that. I'm not an easy lynch no matter what. Why wouldn't he as scum just remove me at night? What's his motivation for doing this during the day?

It could be to free up a nk that would have been spent on you but you're probably right. That part of my argument is flawed. I still stand by it being odd to for him to townread the two people scumreading him though.

[Dunnstral]

the start of day 2 with Dino and Koto... that was TvT. I really did not like d1 Dave, and d2 Dave is just as bad. Dunn is pretty well non-existent, as is Assemble... I wanna push one of these two before we start running people up.
VOTE: Dunn

So this isn't a real push then, and you plan to move your vote later? Good to know

[mozamis]

Yo I would honestly prefer people not do this

I did this d1 because I was pretty damn sure I was right

It's hard to recreate magic and I'm concerned people are waiting for me to do something

it's difficult to recreate if you were bussing...

[Archwing]

the start of day 2 with Dino and Koto... that was TvT. I really did not like d1 Dave, and d2 Dave is just as bad. Dunn is pretty well non-existent, as is Assemble... I wanna push one of these two before we start running people up.
VOTE: Dunn

So this isn't a real push then, and you plan to move your vote later? Good to know

I'll move my vote if I have reason to.

[momo]

Not gonna pretend to be active on this game or lie to y'all. Team mafia is my priority right now...can't play in this anymore.

Lynch jay...I'm telling you.

Mod: Replace me out...access to the dead thread would be nice too.

[JaydragonKing]

Jesus Christ, your last words are to murder me. That's just rude.... And saying that as your basically last words will have the same effect as Almost's last words. Last words hold a lot of weight, dude.

That also makes two people who "died" saying I'm possibly evil. I'm not the easiest person to townread, appearantly ...