Open 701: Pick Yer Power X/Y Game Over!

[CityElectric]

Right, let's get down to business.

Mutant confuses me a little. He's either idiot town, or scum, and nothing quite jumps out to me as super telling either way. I'm a little inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt here, due to the low number of games he participated in, but consider my eye on him. And since we're on the topic of Mutant anyway...

Obviously, I'm still adjusting though and hence I will make mistakes. Luckily, they are mainly post formatting mistakes such as 129 but

this

is the first proper mistake I have made so far on this site.

What is 'this' referring to?

Chip Butty's 98 is just bad. Actually, the majority of his posts are bad. 62 and 63 also read a little weirdly to me. Chip, can you explain to me why you voted Mutant there?

@Creature: Now that you have given an answer to your forced/genuine question, mind sharing what you think about the reactions? Especially MisaTange's 22. Also, you seem to be townreading pisskop, why? Actually, that kinda goes for the majority of your reads so far, can you give me some more motivations/explanations for them?

In post 54, mutantdevle wrote:
I hadn't previously considered the possibility of scum taking roles to prevent town having them. Possibly because I'm someone who prefers to boost one's own team rather than subtracting from the other.

Look at this. I mean REALLY LOOK AT IT. He draws a parallel between the two and basically says "As scum, I prefer to boost my own team rather than try to subtract from town by taking their PR's away."

I see what you're saying, but I fail to see why this in particular makes him look scummy. Can you explain?

As for some very early, very tentative reads so far, wilky seems town to me, north also leans townie to me. While I'm not a huge fan of the reads she has, Lalendra also seems to come from a town place. Chip feels scummy to me, as does Creature, who is throwing out a whole load of statements, without providing a whole load of reasoning behind them. Mutant's alignment is as certain as a coin toss to me right now, could be scum, could be town. I don't have particularly big opinions on the others either way.

[CityElectric]

In post 136, CityElectric wrote:
What is 'this' referring to?

'This' refers to the whole 'mistake' of asking for if texcat would consider role claiming. I myself do not view it as a mistake as such as in my opinion it would be a perfectly valid thing for texcat to do IF her role would benefit town members from knowing it. But I get the feeling that others would view it as a mistake and a bad idea to roleclaim regardless of her role. On my part, it's a mistake in that I mistakingly thought players would be more open to the POSSIBILITY of a roleclaim but alas most players have reacted as though I have demanded one.

Ah, right, your post was worded in such a way it could either refer to the formatting mistake or what you mention here, I wanted to clear that up.

Having said that, I have a huge problem with this. It looks like you consider your mistake to be 'I suggested something that made everyone think I'm scum' rather than 'I suggested something that I thought was a good idea, but actually was disadvantageous for town.'. That is not a town mindset.

I would vote you right here, right now, but if I counted correctly, that would put you at L-1 and I consider it to be way too early in the game to go there quite yet, as we're only on page 6, we have a little over 12 days left, and I've still got no solid reads on the majority of the player list, but consider my vote to be on you.

[CityElectric]

What is 'this' referring to?

'This' refers to the whole 'mistake' of asking for if texcat would consider role claiming. I myself do not view it as a mistake as such as in my opinion it would be a perfectly valid thing for texcat to do IF her role would benefit town members from knowing it. But I get the feeling that others would view it as a mistake and a bad idea to roleclaim regardless of her role. On my part, it's a mistake in that I mistakingly thought players would be more open to the POSSIBILITY of a roleclaim but alas most players have reacted as though I have demanded one.

Ah, right, your post was worded in such a way it could either refer to the formatting mistake or what you mention here, I wanted to clear that up.

Having said that, I have a huge problem with this. It looks like you consider your mistake to be 'I suggested something that made everyone think I'm scum' rather than 'I suggested something that I thought was a good idea, but actually was disadvantageous for town.'. That is not a town mindset.

I would vote you right here, right now, but if I counted correctly, that would put you at L-1 and I consider it to be way too early in the game to go there quite yet, as we're only on page 6, we have a little over 12 days left, and I've still got no solid reads on the majority of the player list, but consider my vote to be on you.

EBWOP: fixed the quote tags. Also due to accidental page top, we're actually on page 7... Still think that's too early though.

[CityElectric]

sure.

intent

Nothing you've said so far indicates you having a scumread on mutant (or any reads at all). Why did you post this intent to hammer?

I don't want this day to be extreme unproductive so I'd:
- End the mutant wagon
- Ignore mutant and hunt scum elsewhere
- Choose a lynch without it necessarily needing to be mutant

No time like the present to actually contribute some to that, instead of just pointing this out. I've asked you some questions on your motivation for your reads and actions, as have others. You not addressing any of those does not sit right with me. At this point, it looks to me like you're just throwing out reads and statements to make it look like you're scumhunting and contributing to the game, without actually providing anything.

[CityElectric]

No time like the present to actually contribute some to that, instead of just pointing this out. I've asked you some questions on your motivation for your reads and actions, as have others. You not addressing any of those does not sit right with me. At this point, it looks to me like you're just throwing out reads and statements to make it look like you're scumhunting and contributing to the game, without actually providing anything.

What I'm worried about mutantdevle is that he has no idea of how mafia works here.

So I'm thinking his rolefishing is town motivated even if it's pretty bad.

This isn't an answer to any of the questions I asked you in 136, but thanks for pointing out yet again you think mutant is town and why that is. It took wilky voting you and explicitly asking you what we should focus on for you to actually start focusing on someone else and starting to contribute. Now, here's the thing: Creature's posting style makes it very hard for me to connect them all so I can get a coherent idea on where he stands. However, it overall looks very reactive, instead of proactively trying to hunt scum. Even the possible somewhat proactive 18, never got properly followed up upon, i.e. analyzing the reactions it got. While some of this may be attributed to simply playstyle, I feel like it's more of a scummy way of playing than a town one.

Pisskop is active lurking really badly. I'm not sure whether I can even call it "active" lurking anymore.

no.

im skimming for my name from.time to time. active lurking is waay more active than i am right now

You're just skimming for your name from time to time, yet you magically appear to post an intent to hammer out of nowhere. That intent to hammer also doesn't align with 264 at all. In fact 264 and 159 don't even seem to come from the same player. What happened between 264 and 159 that made you change your position so radically?

VOTE: pisskop

[CityElectric]

Sorry for the lack of posting guys, I've been a bit sick and doing a lot of sleeping the past few days.

Even the possible somewhat proactive 18, never got properly followed up upon, i.e. analyzing the reactions it got.

Helped me get a townread on mutant and possibly plenty others.

Sure, but how? I'm getting an overall lack of thought and argumentation behind your reads because you seem unwilling to share that. Take 262 for example, you ask if anyone's up for wagoning CommKnight while giving zero reason why you think we should. I could fill in some reasons, but that's not what we're doing here. Point is, all of your thoughts and reasoning seem to be based on nothing as far as I can tell, which is what I'm getting scummy vibes from.

loli's vote was the most opportunitistic.

you mistake my presence for reading

This seems to be directed at me. Give me a good reason for that intent to hammer other than 'I was asked', and I might reconsider my vote.

[CityElectric]

I'm gonna show you one scum who's just in the background watching town eat itself:

VOTE: CommKnight

So, like are you going to show why he's scum or should we all just sheep you with no reasons?

This. You're so much more likely to reach something by at least making an effort to convince people of your stance. Please at least try to make an effort.

At this point I'm fine with lynching any of pisskop, mutant or Creature today.

For those of you who thought it was too early in the Day to lynch Mutant, can you tell us what you've learned by waiting?

That there are some people in this game who apparently really don't feel like contributing to the larger goal of lynching some scum.

[CityElectric]

You're just skimming for your name from time to time, yet you magically appear to post an intent to hammer out of nowhere. That intent to hammer also doesn't align with 264 at all. In fact 264 and 159 don't even seem to come from the same player. What happened between 264 and 159 that made you change your position so radically?

VOTE: pisskop

What Change in What Position???

"Intent to hammer mutant" vs. "it's still early in the day, let's lynch something else".

I still am very much not a fan of the amount of work it takes to get Creature to elaborate on anything.

It's more of a meta reason. I feel like he's taking advantage of us who are just tunneling town. I'd expect town!him to be trying to stop that.

I feel a similar reason could be given for more players here, especially when taking the more general argument you seem to be making in 380, but I have like zero experience with this playerlist so I can't really put anything behind this statement. I'll be honest, I'm not a huuuuuuuge fan of what Comm's been posting so far as well, but he's not at the top of my 'preferred lynches of the day' list. His eagerness to hammer that early kinda rubbed me the wrong way, but at least he's been consistent in his opinion of mutant afterwards. Then again, the majority of his posts read as I WANT TO LYNCH MUTANT with very little else, which makes me go 'eh' again. Hmm, food for thought there.

UNVOTE:
North. Please share your theory.

Assembler, do you have any thoughts to share? All you've said is that you thought Mutant was newbtown, but you were ok with his lynch?

I will occasionally help lynch someone whom I townread if I believe the wagon can be mined for data.

I don't like this post at all. That's an amazing set-up for explaining away some scummy actions.

Also in before people now claim pisskop is also a scum buddy since he is defending my point on asking if textcat wants to role claim.

Wait, what? Where is he doing that?

Also would be good to hear Aster's opinions on PK's posts unless he still thinks he's a vegging fool.

Agreed.

[CityElectric]

As I said, I didn't have it too hand as I didn't need to read it. Now can we leave it at that and get on with the game instead of having some off-topic smokescreen about who should be finding stuff for you?

You didn't have it to hand? Lol what does that even mean here? Do you need your secretary to pull it from the file room or something?

@CityElectric: this kind of snarky comment isn't unusual for me, as either alignment.

I feel like you shouldn't have mentioned that tbh. Because now any person who chose the number 1 will know that someone who did not choose 7 has the PR they wanted if they don't have a PR themselves.

Speaking of which, Texcat, are you going to tell us what role you chose? Since you are the first in the draft order you are guaranteed to have a PR. Hence you are the most likely candidate for the scum to shoot.

@CityElectric: this and subsequent posts where he tried to explain the question to texcat were the reason I voted him at 63.

[CityElectric]

Woops, pressing buttons and proper foruming is hard, sorry about 525.

[CityElectric]

What I wanted that to say was:

As I said, I didn't have it too hand as I didn't need to read it. Now can we leave it at that and get on with the game instead of having some off-topic smokescreen about who should be finding stuff for you?

You didn't have it to hand? Lol what does that even mean here? Do you need your secretary to pull it from the file room or something?

@CityElectric: this kind of snarky comment isn't unusual for me, as either alignment.

I feel like you shouldn't have mentioned that tbh. Because now any person who chose the number 1 will know that someone who did not choose 7 has the PR they wanted if they don't have a PR themselves.

Speaking of which, Texcat, are you going to tell us what role you chose? Since you are the first in the draft order you are guaranteed to have a PR. Hence you are the most likely candidate for the scum to shoot.

@CityElectric: this and subsequent posts where he tried to explain the question to texcat were the reason I voted him at 63.

Oef, that's way back in the game, lemme see what my original problems with those posts were. Oh, right, yeah. My issue with 98 is that it felt suuuuuuuuper defensive in a weird sort of way and your explanation doesn't really change anything about that to me, tbh. Your later posts seem okay to me though, so there's that.

I still am very much not a fan of the amount of work it takes to get Creature to elaborate on anything.

What about the amount of work it takes to get others to listen?

I mean, if you want people to listen to you, put the work in. Statements like 'Anyone up to wagon CommKnight?' without reasons why we should evidently don't get you very far in this game.

Anyways, giving that deadline is coming up soonish, I'm probably gonna do a closer reread on the thread tonight/tomorrow to try and flesh out my reads some more.

[CityElectric]

@mod (and the rest of the thread, I guess): I'm gonna be V/LA from today until the 16th. Gonna have to focus on uni and the wild deadlines that sprung at me today for a bit.

[CityElectric]

Little prod dodge, thought I'd be able to get back to the game today, but I can't. Will try and put something in tomorrow.

[CityElectric]

Holy shit finals are over I'm freeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

Anyway, reads.

Wilky was the only slot I relatively confidently townread day 1 and Cheeky hasn't really done anything to change that. I'm also throwing tex, north and lalendra on the tentative town pile. Chip can also go on there as well.

Aster has quite a lot of posts with a lot of math in them which I don't quite understand. There is also a lot of reasoning and a lot of other, well, stuff in there. I like the reasoning, and there seems to be quite some scumhunting/game solving in there, but, on a reread, I'm feeling a bit uneasy about his reaction to Pisskop on day 1 and I can't quite put my finger on why that is. Town read, but with some uneasy feelings.

Mutant, after all this time, still gives me a headache. Partially because his ISO feels longer than the great wall of China, and partially because I keep flip-flopping on my read on him. His earlygame was reeeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaally scummy, but his later posts weren't quite so much. Therefore, null, with a very slight townlean.

Wasn't a huge fan of Assembler day 1, so far there hasn't been a lot coming out of that slot to change my opinion on that. Null, leaning scum.

I'm not a huge fan of Viomi's reactions upon being pushed. There's a whole lot of 'read my posts' and namecalling in there, instead of making an effort to really defend herself. Likely scum.

I crazy dislike how Creature has been dancing around the Comm wagon all day. First he's calling for a Comm wagon for days, then he only hops on the wagon when someone else has already voted for Comm and then the moment the wagon starts to get somewhere, he hops back off with 'I don't feel like it anymore'. There's overall a lot of saying 'I want to lynch/pressure this player' and fairly little action towards actually doing so in Creature's posts. @Creature: is the reason you hopped off because you thought he was softing a PR, or because there legitimately was something town about the way he reacted to being pressured?

Comm seems super scummy to me for reasons others have already pointed out. Adding that to his willingness to hammer mutant that early on day 1, which I already didn't like, and we've got quite the solid scumread here.

In terms of lynching today, I'd be okay with Creature, Viomi or Comm. Comm is currently my strongest scumread, so:

VOTE: CommKnight

[CityElectric]

You should look for scum around the people shily sitting against the wall away from the center of attention.

Again, if that's how you feel, you might as well start now by putting your vote/questions/cases where your mouth is. If you're so sure there's scum in that area, start pressuring them, ask questions, vote them, but do something more than 'I say they are scum now please wagon'.

[CityElectric]

You should look for scum around the people shily sitting against the wall away from the center of attention.

Again, if that's how you feel, you might as well start now by putting your vote/questions/cases where your mouth is. If you're so sure there's scum in that area, start pressuring them, ask questions, vote them, but do something more than 'I say they are scum now please wagon'.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that your play so far has been super non-committal, which reads more scum to me than town.

Also, 'but what about these other players' isn't a defense.

[CityElectric]

The post-finals brain fry is real.

Anyways, yeah I'm still down with lynching Comm (because I really don't think he's gonna flip a town PR). I've seen left and right also some voices going up for lynching Creature, which I'm also very down with.

Actually, you know what

[CityElectric]

(whoops phone posting is hard)

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Creature

[CityElectric]

Apparently it's not quite socially acceptable yet to play Mafia during Christmas dinner.

Happy holidays everyone!

@Mod: V/LA until the 28th

[CityElectric]

Now Creature has jumped on this bw as well. Can't people see how scummy he is being? If we can't get CK today (why, oh why?), I can compromise with a Creature lynch.

Come join me on the wagon it's got some nice spaces left.

Personally, I'm not super down with a LUV lynch, largely because they just replaced into a slot I didn't have the strongest of reads on either way.

Then again, I haven't been super paying attention to the thread the past few days. Will take some time tomorrow to read more closely.

[CityElectric]

Kid
Momo
Viomi, CE, Aster, NSG, LUV
tex
CK, Creature

Mutant: prob tunnelling vi. His statistics are based on too small a sample size to be meaningful. Waste of time.
LUV: Based on Lalendra being lynchbait and LUV redeeming the slot a bit.
Viomi: was leaning town but recent push on me was sketchy at times.
Momo: mainly because of Wilky in the slot, and CT to a lesser extent.
Aster: not attracting too much attention. Maybe cruising.
NSG: almost completely under my radar. Need to ISO.
CE: also sliding through quietly.

Hopefully i got all the replacements right...

I might be failing reading 101 here, but where is mutant on your reads list?

[CityElectric]

Now Creature has jumped on this bw as well. Can't people see how scummy he is being? If we can't get CK today (why, oh why?), I can compromise with a Creature lynch.

Come join me on the wagon it's got some nice spaces left.

Personally, I'm not super down with a LUV lynch, largely because they just replaced into a slot I didn't have the strongest of reads on either way.

Then again, I haven't been super paying attention to the thread the past few days. Will take some time tomorrow to read more closely.

What do you think of Chip? Is he scummy, if so, why? Is he town, if so, why? Are you on the fence, if so, why? But just in general would you be willing to compromise lynch him?

I'm a little on the fence, actually. His beginning was bad bad bad, but I'm not quite seeing the 'obvscum' in his later posts you make him out to be. I do agree his readslist is strange though. I would be willing to compromise lynch him if push came to shove, but I really do prefer the Comm wagon out of the 3 current big wagon options.

VOTE: CommKnight

[CityElectric]

Yeah, good game guys. Also, I'm really sorry for being so flaky, I thought when I signed up it was a good time to get back into mafia, and then it turned out to be not a good time to get back as uni deadlines and the holidays quickly caught up on me. I wanted to finish what I started, but I see now it may have been better for the game if I had replaced out sooner. After sleeping through the entire first day of the day phase I replaced out in, I largely saw the error of my ways. Really, honestly super sorry about that. In hindsight I think it both hurt and helped us, so there's that.

Overall, as aggravating as this game sometimes could be (for a variety of reasons), I overall had fun. Aster and Northside, I really enjoyed having you as my scumbuddies, I'm sorry I couldn't stick it out till the end. Elmo, thanks a lot for hosting, sorry you had to replace me.

[CityElectric]

I think cop/redirector is about equally powerful as RC/UB for scum, but for different reasons. Cop is important to take it away from town, RC/UB for the power it gives the scumteam.

Also, holy shit scum dodged a bullet there on N4.