Open 701: Pick Yer Power X/Y Game Over!

[Aster]

VOTE: mutantdevie for bandwagoning.

(This is totally unrelated from my fear of mutant zombies.)

[Aster]

Both 1 and 7 were sent in thrice, which puts them below all numbers sent in twice or less, and since 1 < 7, shouldn't the three players who send in 1 be ranked above the three players who sent in 7?

[Aster]

Tbh there’s not really a lot that can be done about it now...

Sure there is. We can whine, brood and simmer about this injustice for eternity. ^^

[Aster]

You can PM me more about the 1 or 7 Talk. I can Assure you that it changed nothing in the game.

Hold on. I suppose that means the slots would have been assigned identically if the 1 and 7 groups were switched? That does actually give us a bit of information:

• To anyone in the 7-group who got their slot: nobody in the 1-group tried to get your slot.
  
• To anyone in the 1-group who didn't get their slot: either your slot was taken by somebody in the 1-group above you, or it wasn't taken by anyone in the 7-group.

[Aster]

EBWOP: on some more thought, there's no "either" necessary in my second statement and it can be amended to

• To anyone in the 7-group who got their slot: nobody in the 1-group tried to get your slot.
  
• To anyone in the 1-group who didn't get their slot: it wasn't taken by anyone in the 7-group.

[Aster]

I'm not demanding she role claims, I'm just asking her if she is going to.

Now this definitely read like a cop-out to me. Your question was

Speaking of which, Texcat, are you going to tell us what role you chose?

Technically this may be a yes/no question. In practice, this is just as much a yes/no question as somebody who asks "Can you pass the salt?" is expecting a yes/no as answer. You were definitely asking to get a roleclaim out of her.

Curious is how quickly you backtrack on asking for a roleclaim. Northside

hadn't even said a word

and you already felt like you needed to defend yourself with "no, I totally wasn't asking for roleclaims!". It gives the impression that

you knew

that you just committed a scum action.

---

There is one more curious thing about asking for roles: suppose Tex would claim her role. We, as townies, wouldn't have a clue whether her role was town or not. The mafia, however, would know—and if Tex is town (like you

somehow

silently assumed in post #35), then its all the more power to them. Roleclaiming seems kinda more beneficial to mafia than to town.

---

I would vote you, but my vote is already on you from the RVS, so I shall do the following:

UNVOTE: mutantdevle
VOTE: mutantdevle4reals

[Aster]

If she claimed to be the PGO then she could use the potential of arming herself night 1 as a way to stop the mafia killing her. [...]

A similar thing can be said about a commuter who could use the potential of using their ability as a way to trick the mafia into not risking their ability on them.

Are you kidding me?

IF SHE WERE TO BE A PGO OR COMMUTER, ROLECLAIMING WOULD COMPLETELY COMPRIMISE HER POWER. COMMUTERS AND PGO'S ARE SUPPOSED TO LURE THE MAFIA INTO TARGETTING THEM AND THEN WASTE THE MAFIA'S ACTIONS AND/OR LIVES.

It really looks like you're thinking about this game from the mafia's perspective instead of town's. My vote stands.

[Aster]

While I am getting strong "idiot" vibes from mutantdevle, I'm not convinced that they are "village idiot" vibes. Being a VI could explain why he was rolefishing, but it does not explain why he was so quick to backtrack on his fishing. Many of his actions can be caused by either idiocity or mafianess, but his hastiness of backtracking cannot simply be explained by being a VI. If he was merely a VI who thought rolefishing was acceptable, then I'd think that his reaction to northside would be more along the lines of "WTF are you voting me?" rather than "Oh noes I'm being voted for rolefishing". It strongly suggests to me that he had a "guilty conscience" about it and therefore quickly realised what northside was on about.

On a slightly unrelated note, there is one more thing I want him to clarify:

On the rare chance that she chose a role that would benifit us to be known (as I explained earlier). It could also serve as a nudge to her that she is the most likely person to be shot, if she had not previously considered that, and that she should do something about it if she can. Furthermore, it would have allowed her to comfortably fake claim a role that could potentially make the mafia consider not shooting her.

Tell me, mutant, do you really believe that it would be a good idea to have Texcat fakeclaim, supposing Texcat were to be a townie?

---

While I'm keeping my vote on mutant, there's somebody else who's been attracting my attention:

I doubt that scum were really in the draft.

This statement rubs me the wrong way. It is one thing to not know whether or not there are scum in the draft, fail to look it up on the wiki, fail to ask about it, fail to make the mental step "14 players and 14 numbers => everyone sent in numbers => mafia sent in numbers" and fail to make something of the requirement that open games have no hidden rules, but to actually state your blatantly false idea as to correct others is kinda overkill.

Like, you're not even asking or wondering whether scum participated in the draft, but you're just kind-of-confidently stating something you made up.

Of course, players (humans) who do such things exist (unfortunately), but there's another kind of player that exists as well: those who pretend to be ignorant about some basic game principle in an attempt to prove that they cannot be mafia.

I can't say I've got a lot of experience with this stuff happening, but the last (and only) time before I saw somebody pull this trick, they turned out to be the latter kind (and mafia to boot.) So I'll be keeping an eye on you.

[Aster]

Pisskop is active lurking really badly. I'm not sure whether I can even call it "active" lurking anymore.

---

Creature is catching my attention as well. He isn't active-lurking nearly as much as pisskop, but he has made barely any posts longer than two lines (two posts, to be exact.) It's kinda funny how he states that "EE doesn't take mafia seriously" when I have yet to see the first insightful post from him.

I've read through his ISO and at some point he starts saying that he townreads mutant and thinks that mutant will flip town, but the only reason he ever stated for this is

What I'm worried about mutantdevle is that he has no idea of how mafia works here. So I'm thinking his rolefishing is town motivated even if it's pretty bad.

This is the only reason he's ever stated to explain why he thinks mutant is town. If this is his only reason, then I think that the amount of buddying with mutant he's done is kind of excessive for the amount of evidence he has that mutant is town—in fact, "mutant doesn't know how mafia works" is not evidence mutant is town, at best it's a defense against some of the accusations.

At some point he jumps in with

I don't want this day to be extreme unproductive so I'd:
- End the mutant wagon
- Ignore mutant and hunt scum elsewhere
- Choose a lynch without it necessarily needing to be mutant

Aside from my opinion that finding such a suspicious target so quickly actually makes this day

very

productive, it is notable that he advocates moving away from mutant without explaining why (is "unproductive" a reason?) When asked about it, he did somewhat explain this later in the following post:

It is, unless the whole day is about him and we forgot everywhere else.

I'd rather play the "What if mutant is town?" and be prepared if we end mislynching him.

If this is his only motivation, then I feel the demand of "end the mutant wagon & hunt scum elsewhere" to be a bit excessive. Especially the last part "choose a lynch without it necessarily needing to be mutant" should've been "possibly revisit the mutant wagon if we don't find better targets". The amount of evidence Creature has presented or acknowledged for mutant being town is really low, for the little confidence he should have (or has demonstrated) he seems awfully happy to get the bandwagon away from mutant.

All the above could be explained with the Creature&mutant scumbuddy theory. That said, if they were scumbuddies, I think mutant is putting awfully little effort in getting the bandwagon actually moved away compared to the amount of attention he's attracting to his connection with mutant.

At any rates, I've got my eyes on Creature as well.

---

At this point, I realise that I unfortunately only have a single vote and I can't cast it on everyone I'm suspicious of. As such, I established my list of suspicious players:

• mutantdevle;
  
• Creature;
  
• pisskop;
  
• Chip Butty.

[Aster]

UNVOTE: mutantdevle
VOTE: pisskop

[Aster]

Pisskop seems to be a troll who has no intention of playing this games seriously. I am under the impression that there is absolutely no point in trying to get any kind of information out of him, and nothing short of a cop investigation will help us figure out whether or not he's scum.

It looks like activity in town has decreased. I can't be sure, but I think it is because of the atmosphere where both of the following hold true:

• There is a kind-of-really-suspicious guy (mutantdevle) who is probably-mafia-but-maybe-VI. With the presence of this guy who's soaking up all attention, players don't feel the need to put forth new leads.
  
• However, the guy is maybe-idiot and putting forth a lynch this early is kinda-scary. So maybe we'll just see what the others do about it?

And, as a result, nothing was happening. Then pisskop enters and votes quickly roll because we finally have something fresh to do that is neither hammering mutantdevle nor waiting. Jumping on pisskop is, after all, an easy way to make that required once-in-48-hours post, right?

And now that pisskop has gotten five votes already, the town is starting to worry "Should we really policy lynch this guy? Shouldn't we go after mutant instead? Making decisions is scary >_<"

Also, some of those who "voted" him said that it was to get him to talk. It looks like that isn't working, and pisskop is at the top of the votecount by now. Those who voted him, do you intend to follow through with your threat?

How about town stops dibble-dabbling and makes up its mind for once? To get the discussion to move on again, I'll ask

all of you

the following question:

• Would you be okay with pisskop getting policy lynched at this point in the game?

How about all of you answer the above question with something that contains a "yes" or a "no" and without beaing around the bush? Tomorrow I'll make a list of everyone's answers, everyone who has not answered, and everyone who is beating around the bush in their answer.

(Note that the answer to this question does not directly translate to votes: one might vote pisskop without intending to lynch him, or one may be fine with him getting policy lynched but still prefer to lynch and vote somebody else.)

[Aster]

Of course, I can't get away with not answering that very question myself, so here's my opionion: yes, I'd be fine with policy lynching pisskop. Although I think that mutant is more likely to be scum than pisskop, letting pisskop get away with this blatant anti-town and impossible-to-read behaviour would set a terrible precedent for town and for future games.

[Aster]

ewww

a whole post asking people about their feelz over a PL instead of progressing the game.

those posts are intended to stir up a lynch on a noinfo character. and disguise it as contiribuiting. the more proficient players among you should tell me that post felt right

How about you answer my question as well?

[Aster]

from a theory point its a crapsack AtE and from a game progress point its a stagnant soft push

• Beats around the bush.

Please pick an answer that contains a "yes" or a "no".

[Aster]

It seems that some people have cast some doubts on me polling the support for a policy lynch. I'd like to clarify that with "contains a yes or no" does not mean that you shouldn't give your reason for your choice, but means that you had to make up your mind on what you would do if a policy lynch were about to happen.

Why? For mostly two reasons: first, with pisskop at L-2 by now (L-3 back then), there is a reasonable chance that pisskop will get policy lynched, and if you're not happy with that,

now

is the time to protest. The second reason is that if I do not ask for something with a yes/no, then most players will beat around the bush with something like "I'm not opposed to lynching pisskop but I'd have to wait and see a bit more before I can actually support lynching him", which frankly hardly gives us any information.

Have you looked at the activity the past few days? Barely any discussion is happenin. Why isn't discussion happening? Because (1) our targets are an idiot and a troll, which makes it hard to discuss, and (2) it looks like we already have solid lynch targets and there is no need to seek out new ones.

Unless something new happens, this day will end with either mutant or pisskop getting lynched. And indeed, it is unlikely that we will come across better targets than either of them (especially since no scumhunting is being done at this point.) At most, we're only bandwagonning with no intention of ever letting them hammer.

The town seems satisfied with its scumhunting job being done and spends its time waiting untill

somebody else

moves stuff forward. Things that

are currently not happening

are:

• Scumhunting;
  
• Lynching.

We seem to be in that limbo state where we're done with scumhunting but not yet ready to lynch. I think we should either:

1. Get back to scumhunting;
   
2. Move on to lynching.

If discussion is to be had, we should go back to discussing, but in the history of today's posts. If not, we should move on to lynching, so we can have the remaining time in the day carry over to tomorrow, along with new information to start new discussions. I could understand wanting to delay the hammer to the end of the day in normal setups where daytime doesn't carry over, but in this game, it does. I don't think we should just squander our remaining day time just because we can.

So I was trying to make town decide for themselves whether they would be fine with the day ending at this point. I picked pisskop because he was the new hot topic (unlike mutant who had already been L-1'd and intented), but thinking back, maybe I should've asked a more general statement ("Would you be fine with a lynch happening at this point in the day?")

[Aster]

Also, I would compile a list with the answers to my last question. Here it is.

Players who would be fine with lynching pisskop:

• Aster;
  
• Chip Butty;
  
• CommKnight;
  
• Creature;
  
• northside;
  
• texcat;
  
• Wilky.

Players who would not be fine with pisskop getting policy lynched:

• mutantdevle.

Players who posted but didn't answer my question:

• CityElectric.

Players who haven't posted in the meanwhile:

• MisaTange;
  
• Lalendra;
  
• Viomi;
  
• Assemblerotws.

---

You realise you are asking him if he would be okay with his own policy lynch, right?

Yes. Asking him what he thought about lynching himself was supposed to be an obvious joke.

[Aster]

Since it seems like we've got solid targets and the further discussion happening at this rate won't give us much more information, I think we should move on to with the lynch so we have more time to talk during the later days. In particular, I think having mutant's alignment confirmed could give us some quite valuable information.

Although I'm fine with lynching either mutant or pisskop, I've decided I'd rather lynch mutant after all. Aside from having way more evidence against him, a newly to be considered reason is that there is a ton of information to be gained by confirming mutant's alignment. If he flips scum, we're onto his potential scumbuddy Creature. Should he flip town, then at least most of us have had a lot of discussion with him which could give new leads. If pisskop gets lynched, his alignment will tell us hardly anything.

UNVOTE: pisskop
VOTE: mutantdevle

[Aster]

Why do you see Creature as a potential partner of Mutant? I'm more inclined to think the opposite as it looks like Creature went for some real buddying up with Mutant and if my theory is correct Mutant will flip town and Creature knows that and will hope to take town cred from the lynch.

I explained why I think of Creature as a potential scumpartner in post 223. To summarise, Creature is buddying with mutant a lot. However, unlike normal townie-like buddying, Creature seems to be far more certain that mutant is townie than that the evidence he presents suggests to be reasonable. It somehow gives the suggestion that he has another motive for defending mutant.

And, as I write that paragraph, I realise that such behaviour fits perfectly in the picture of mutant being town and Creature fishing for towncred as well. In fact, it even fits a bit better in that picture since I had been wondering about why Creature, despite displaying such great amounts of buddying, put so little actual effort in preventing mutant from actually getting lynched. The case of mutant being town, Creature being mafia knowing mutant is town, and Creature fishing for towncred would explain everything.

However, that situation would require mutant to be town, which I nevertheless think is unlikely. It also puts Creature in a no-win situation: if mutant is scum, Creature is buddying; if mutant is town, Creature is fishing for towncred. Maybe Creature's way of defending mutant is just inherently scummy?

At any rate, there is more information than just about Creature to be had in lynching mutant.

---

Aster, I don't think I understand why you were pushing an answer regarding pisskop's lynch, and then suddenly decided to switch from him to Mutant.

I changed my mind?

I think I already explained most of this in posts 331 and 333, but I'll tell you a longer story if you want.

I never had big evidence against pisskop, I had a "this guy is disrupting town and will never give us alignment information, so I want him lynched" against pisskop. Mutant has appeared more scummy to me through the process, so I had to choose whether I'd rather lynch the most scummy guy or policy lynch the troll.

Moreover, I wasn't trying to make town lynch pisskop as much as I wanted town to make up their minds about the state of affairs. I think that stating my own opinion after asking the question did make the question look biased, but I couldn't just leave it yout.

I'll now explain what I mean with "wanted town to make up their minds about the state of affairs".

Let's take a look at what happened in this thread after a bandwagon against pisskop started and before I inquired about the support for actually lynching him. The activity in this thread was really low (and still is), and the little discussion that was happening could be best summarised as beating a dead horse:

• Everyone: pisskop, we're totally gonna lynch you if you keep this up!
  
• pisskop: lolz
  
• Everyone: don't make us warn you again!
  
• pisskop: lolz

At that point, I was agitated both with pisskop's behaviour as well as with how the little activity that was left was all focused on the above futile endeavours.

I noted that the wagon against mutant had traction until we got to the point of lynching him, at which point players realised "Wait, my vote is about to

actually

lynch somebody? Can we do that this early? Shouldn't we think more about this? Maybe I should unvote..." And then the bandwagon died down.

I got the impression that the same thing was going to happen with pisskop: while many are happy to vote to show their disapproval, few are actually happy to lynch somebody this early in the day. In other words, any players were willing to

vote

him, but most players were not actually willing to

lynch

him. Most of the votes looked like "scaring votes" from those who only wanted to express their disapproval, and the sentiment to lynch him was lacking.

At this rate, neither discussion nor lynches are happening, and we'd end up using all time we've left in the day before the town actually does something again. To end this mockery, I wanted town to make up their mind already: are you actually willing to lynch pisskop, or are you just barking again? Are you actually fine with ending the day already? Are you fine with letting mutant go to deal with this troll issue?

If there was actual support for lynching pisskop, then we could lynch him. If there wasn't, then we as town should move on from this pisskop business because "scaring votes" clearly aren't working.

Reading the answers to my question, the following could be derived: while there is support for policy lynching pisskop, several of the supporters are withholding votes because they'd rather lynch mutant.

So that made me think about the following: since this day will probably end with either pisskop or mutant getting lynched,

I

need to make up my mind as well. Which of them would I prefer to lynch?

After some thinking, I came to the conclusion that between pisskop and mutant, I'd rather have mutant lynched. The deciding factor was that I realised that the main reason I'd been pushing for a lynch was to get the town to move on from this stagnation and talk again, and lynching pisskop wouldn't accomplish that goal nearly as much as lynching mutant would: if pisskop got lynched, we'd learn barely anything; if mutant got lynched, we'd have a treasure trove of discussion to base new reads on.

And that's the story about why I'm back to my mutant vote. If one of those two is going to get lynched, I'd prefer it to be mutant.

---

This doesn't make sense at all if you are town. If you are town then you know 100% you are town, and commonsense says a warm town body is more valuable than the time that would be saved.

Neither does it make sense if he's mafia.

[Aster]

Alright. I give up. Town will not be able to get anyone lynched today until time forces us to. Taking that in account, I guess I should just make use of this time to sidetrack a bit with some readings on others?

---

Although not half as trolly, I need to remark that Assemblerotws is an even worse lurker than pisskop. He's only made four posts so far, all of which are one-liners. I had been ignoring him so far because I thought he would end up getting replaced, but it seems he came here for the obligatory posting requirement anyway. In particular, his following posts are remarkable:

I personally think Mutant is newbtown. Not sure on anyone else yet.

I would be fine with lynching either Pisskop or mutant.

He made no other posts between these two (though there is a big time gap.) There are two things that spring into my eye:

1. She suddenly, without explanation, went from mutant being newbtown to willing to lynch mutant;
   
2. She is fine with lynching pisskop. Never mind that his lurking is even worse than pisskop's.

The only thing that puts him below pisskop in the "please policy lynch me" totem is that this guy doesn't act like a troll. Other than that we may as well take him down along with pisskop.

The only problem is that if we keep policy lynching everyone who acts anti-town, at this rate the entire town may end up dead before we get to the actual scumlynching.

---

On to the next target. From Viomi, the following post in particular stands out:

1. I don't think scum gets to talk before draft
2. Even if they did, they could have multiple people choose the same thing just to throw people like you off. It's WIFOM.

Point 1 is remarkable because she makes this statement after the host had already confirmed the opposite:

@Mod: Did mafia have pre-game chat before draft was sent in?

Throughout the bidding phases, the thread is locked, however, mafia may collude privately during this time and then again throughout the day.

I already accused Chip Butty of feigning ignorance, but after another doofus waltzed in with the same kind of feigned ignorance, I kind of dropped the point because maybe there are just that many idiots? At any rate, this shows that Viomi isn't paying too much attention to the thread.

However, there feels to be something more off about this post than just the (possibly) feigned ignorance that I accused Chip Butty of: Viomi seems to really want to drive the point that we shouldn't assume that there aren't multiple scum in the same number group. While the scum may indeed have decided to cause WIFOM, doesn't hse brush away the role sacrifice scum would have to make for that too easily? he

Also, supposing that Viomi didn't have a clue whether or not the scum was able to chat during the draft, what would she have to gain with asserting that she doesn't think scum got to talk during the draft?

I really get the impression that Viomi is trying to handle an agenda here.

In addition to the above, she's made a couple more (blatantly wrong or really stupid) posts that give me the impression that Viomi has turned off her brain and is just saying whatever:

Nope. The lower your number is, if it was picked by multiple people, the lower priority you'll get. Multiple-person 1 will always go last.

I mean, mutant is blatantly obvious scum asking for PR claims, and he isn't lynched yet, so... Maybe Creature thought the only way to save him would to be blatant as well?

Also mutantdevle I haven't been contributing to discussion on you much because everything I've wanted to say has already been said? And filling the thread up with the same information for more reading doesn't help us any, so...

Mutant looks like an idiot who is at least thinking; Viomi, on the other hand, simply doesn't seem to be thinking at all.

The lack of any mental contribution combined with the possibility that she's running a mafia agenda make me suspicious of her.

---

Time to expand my list of suspicious players.

• mutantdevle;
  
• pisskop;
  
• Viomi;
  
• Creature;
  
• Assemblerotws;
  
• Chip Butty;

[Aster]

Pisskop is active lurking really badly. I'm not sure whether I can even call it "active" lurking anymore.

I think this is telling. He calls me suspicious, and not active. He pans it out as if somehow the inactive part makes it worse?

VOTE: Aster

Please remind me where exactly I called you suspicious? I've called you inactive, troll and anti-town, but I don't remember calling you suspicious.

By the way, I can OMGUS too.
UNVOTE: mutantdevle
VOTE: pisskop

[Aster]

Observations:

1. Everything pisskop says is intended for the sole purpose of infuriating players;
   
2. Ergo, pisskop is a classic troll;
   
3. The only way to deal with trolls is to ignore them.

Now I'm not sure whether I should just pretend pisskop doesn't exist at all and stop reading his posts, or just lynch him and move on. In the former case I'd be quite salty if he turned out to be scum and thereby won the game, but in the latter case I feel like I'm giving his existence too much credit...

Also, the "add user as foe" function of this site seems to be broken: pisskop's posts are still showing up. Does anyone know if this can be fixed?

[Aster]

Also would be good to hear Aster's opinions on PK's posts unless he still thinks he's a vegging fool.

I'm not sure what "vegging" means, but my opinion on pisskop is very simple: this guy is a troll. Everything he says is NAI and nothing he says is worth reading. His chance of being scum is 3/14. I am no longer going to bother reading anything he says nor react to any of it.

For the purpose of preserving my own sanity, I just wrote a quick script to hide his posts, so I

literally

won't be reading him anymore.

[Aster]

Not exactly the most helpful thing to do from a town perspective though is it? I don't think anyone has enjoyed pisskop's posts but writing a script to ignore him pretty much takes him out of your lynch pool altogether and if your town won't help town in the slightest.

I don't care. I've seen an entire online community getting single-handedly destroyed by a single troll which the regulars somehow couldn't ignore. I will no longer suffer reading any troll posts, replying to them, or acknowledging their existence. Also, I will not let curiousity get the better of me.

Nothing of value can be gained by reading pisskop's posts. Trolls are going to troll no matter whether they are scum or mafia. If he scumslips, how are you going to know whether he's really scum or just a wannabe jester who wants to make town waste a lynch? He seemed plenty jester-y to me.

If you want to lynch pisskop, I'm fine with that. If he gets close to getting lynched, I am willing to hammer him. However, I am not willing to expend any of my precious sanity on reading his posts.

[Aster]

Surely this goes against your win-con though

No it doesn't.

Can you tell me one remotely relevant thing pisskop said that I missed out on by not reading it?

[Aster]

Where I used to play, "Don't feed the trolls." used to be an important rule. I'm quite surprised that I can't find it under the rules of this site.

[Aster]

I just realized, the timing of Aster's reaction to PK's posts.

As soon as he posts something helpful to town 'La la la, blocked.'

If you're referring to post 415 and those posts surrounding it, then you should read them again (or not): while it may look like he suddenly posted content, pretty much every statement he made was throwing insults at everyone and posting other infuriating statements. That post (along with his follow-up when I reacted) confirmed to me that he was not just a common lurker, but that he was actively trying to troll us.

[Aster]

Aster, if you are town, time to let it go and get on to scumhunting.

Fine.

UNVOTE: pisskop
VOTE: Viomi

So why am I voting Viomi instead of mutant? I already explained some reasons why I thought Viomi is scum in post 374, Since then, he has also made the somewhat aggrevating post

You haven't been scum hunting, you've been asking me silly questions and making daft assumptions and then projecting them on me.

Also, this "Look at me, I'm town!" post is just blatantly scum..

How's everyone feeling about that mutant lynch now? Still letting his scumbuddy creature convince you?

which once again reinforces her air of "I'm not thinking, I just know that mutant is scum." She's just calling mutant scum without an ounce of motivation, as if we're supposed to just accept that as fact. Her entire ISO gives the impression that she's hasn't actually thought about whom is mafia, but is just pushing agenda's/wagons with whatever "argument" seems convenient.

Thinking back, the only thing that made me think mutant to be scum rather than VI is his sudden backtracking. I mean, that's still scummy, but I feel like I'm getting a bit carried away with just that. Even if mutant has many wrong thoughts, I cannot deny that he's thinking, and somehow he gives me the impression that he is genuinely trying to help town. Either that, or he's amazingly persistent scum.

So I'll give mutant the benefit of doubt for a while. Viomi is the one who's simply not thinking about the game but still posting, and gets on my nerves the most since I've started ignoring pisskop.

Also, I think town could use some variation. Focussing only on mutant/pisskop is getting stale and doesn't leave us well-prepared for the next day.

[Aster]

Alright Creature, how about you explain for once why you're onto CommKnight?

If I were to guess based on your posts 376 and 380, CommKnight was probably the one who hasn't generated any towntells? Even so, I think you should actually state your reasons for once. You've only ever been communicating in posts with a few short sentences. If you want to convince us to vote CommKnight, you should probably write out your case for once.

Also lol, you're all saying if mutant is scum I'm scum trying to save him and if mutant is town I'm scum whiteknighting him.

This just means that your interactions with mutant are scummy no matter mutant's alignment.

Actually Creature, I'm placing bets on a noob scum-team right now.

In agreement with MisaTange, I do quite want to know why you think this. Do you also have suspicions on who the scumteam are, or are you saying that you don't know who scum are, but they're probably noobs?

Also Occam's Razor.

(1) I don't get what you're trying to say, and (2) no.

aster's response to pisskop seems like an overreaction to me. i can understand getting annoyed but writing a script to ignore an entire player's posts is a bit much – i have to wonder if he's just saying that, and hasn't actually done anything.

Here's the script if anyone is wondering:

Code: Select all

// ==UserScript==
// @name          Mafiascum: ignore PK
// @namespace     https://www.mafiascum.net/
// @description   Saves your sanity.
// @include       https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?*
// @version       1.0
// ==/UserScript==

try {
	let thread = document.getElementById("page-body");
	let posts = thread.getElementsByClassName("post");
	for(var i=0;i<posts.length;i++) {
		let post = posts[i];
		let profile = post.getElementsByClassName("postprofile")[0];
		let usernameLink = profile.getElementsByTagName("a")[0];
		let username = usernameLink.text;
		if(username == "pisskop") {
			let inner = post.getElementsByClassName("inner")[0];
			inner.innerText = "This post isn't worth reading.";
		}
	}
} catch(e) {
	// Do nothing.
}

It's an userscipt meant to be used with Firefox/Greasemonkey, but I hear Chrome has built-in support for them (didn't test.) It has some rough edges (doesn't hide quotes, doesn't work on the post preview page), but I couldn't be bothered putting more effort in it if I'm in all likelihood the only one using it. It does work for the bulk of the hiding, and ignoring those edges takes less effort than polishing the script.

[Aster]

Back later. CK and Creature: If you're town, try to post something more intelligent.

Why didn't scum attack someone higher than MisaTange?

An excellent question. Now how about you use some of your bountiful intelligence to answer it as well? Or is your brilliance better used by just shoving the actual scumhunting to others?

---

Actually, how about I answer it too.

Reading through Misa's ISO, he did generate a moderate amount of statements. Neither a huge contributor nor an useless lurker. Given the rampant amount of inactivity, I'd put him above average, actually. He thought PK was antitown but not scum, was suspicious of mutant, Creature and me.

He's nowhere among the main pushers against the mutant/Creature bandwagon, and I'm just going to ignore his last target. It seems unlikely that Misa was killed because the mafia percieved him as a danger or because they wanted to frame somebody, so I think that the kill was motivated by one of the following:

1. The mafia wanted a confusing kill to confuse town;
   
2. There are lots of scum among the five players above Misa, and scum didn't want to wield out all the townies;
   
3. There were no viable target higher on the list than Misa.

In the first case, there's nothing town can learn, so I won't pay attention to in in the rest of this post. Point 2 and 3 do actually both suggest that there is a fair amount of scum above Misa. Let's think about why players #1–5 weren't killed if we assume they are town:

• Texcat: being the first player in the list and therefore an obvious target, the mafia may have strayed from him because they're scared of the doctor and/or watcher?
  
• Northside: maybe still scared of the doctor? Alternatively, maybe texcat is scum and they were afraid killing the second-ranking player would make town wonder why mafia didn't go after texcat?
  
• Assembler: is inactive. Maybe the scum would like to keep inactives in the game?
  
• CommKnight: not sure. Not very active, but seems active enough to be considered a target if scum was out for powerroles. Possible scum?
  
• Mutant: given the amount of bad attention this guy has gotten yesterday, killing mutant would be a stupid move regardless of whether he is scum.

In particular Northside and CommKnight look suspicious. Northside definitely passes the contributory standards to be considered for nightkilling, and has solid chances at having a powerrole. Aside from possibly being protected by the doctor, I'm a bit curious why she wasn't targetted.

CommKnight, further down the list, definitely doesn't look like he was going to be protected by the doctor. He wasn't a huge contributor, but he isn't too far below Misa. Comm also went after Creature and Mutant. It does appear unlikely to me that the mafia would move their kill two spots down merely on the difference in contributiveness between them.

[Aster]

I'll hold off my opinion on Viomi for now. The entire bandwagon she tried to push is madness, but I don't see why scum would push a bandwagon this senseless. It kinda reminds me of the mutant business yesterday, with the exception that mutant was trying way harder to be helpful. At any rate, I don't feel like putting her on L-1 for now.

Also, I don't like CommKnight's isistence to avoid lynching players from the top five positions. Sure, powerroles are likely there, but the scum there will likely have powerroles as well, making them more valuable. I do think that town powerroles are more valuable than scum powerroles, but I wouldn't refuse to lynch among the top is it happened that the top players are the scummiest. If we refrain from lynching most-likely-scum and end up lynching vanilla townies instead, the town isn't helped at all.

---

I have data from 8/10 of the completed pick your power games on this forums (wiki says 11 games but 1 was abandoned). Of those 8 games, in 4 of them, scum chose the number 1. Since we have 2 players left who chose 1, that's technically a 1 in 4 chance that Viomi is scum if we are going on the number she chose alone.

I think this math is slightly flawed. Conditional probabilities are tricky.

From 8 completed games, in 4 of them had the mafia chosen the number "1". This means that the chance for scum to pick the number "1" can be roughtly estimated at 4/8 = 1/2, and please remember that's only an

estimate

. I'll now pretend that the estimate of 1/2 is the actual probability because we don't have anything better to work with.

At the start of the game, there were three players who picked the number "1", so from a generic player's perspective, conditioned on there being a scum among the 1s, each of them has 1/3 chance of being mafia. Then the probability that a player who sent in "1" (say Viomi) is mafia can be computed as

P(Viomi is scum)= P(Viomi is scum | there is scum among the 1s) * P(there is a scum among the 1s) = 1/3 * 1/2 = 1/6

But that was at the start of the game. We have now obtained new information: pisskop, one of the 1s, was lynched and flipped town. Now it may intuitively look like the initial chance of 1/2 to have scum among the 1s can be redistributed over the two survivors, but that is wrong.

An extreme example

I'll use a more extreme example to intuitively demonstrate why it's wrong. Suppose this game had a whole lot more players and we knew scum would flip a coin and send in a "1" if it flips heads, and would not send in "1" if it flips tails. Suppose that a million players ended up sending in the number "1", giving each of them an initial chance of 1 in two million to be scum. Next suppose we randomly lynched 999999 of those, and they all appeared to be townies.

Would you say that the chance there was scum amongst those million players is still 1/2 and the last standing player has chance 1/2 to be scum? What situation sounds likelier? That the scum flipped heads and we randomly lynched 999999 townies before only a single scum was left, or that the scum flipped tails and town had been lynching from a pool of only townies? The first event has chance 1/2 * 1/1000000 = 1/2000000 of happening, and the latter has chance 1/2 of happening. The latter situation is overwhelmingly more likely: scum flipped tails.

Back to our current game

Pisskop was

randomly

lynched (i.e. it wasn't a NK that was guaranteed to yield a townie) and flipped town. This infuences the probability that there is still scum among the "1"s. The definition of conditional probability tells us:

P(there is scum in the "1"s | a randomly lynched "1" flips town) = P(there is scum among the "1"s AND a randomly lynched "1" flips town) / P(a randomly lynched "1" flips town)

The probability that a randomly lynched "1" flips town can be computed as:

P(a randomly lynched "1" flips town) = P(a randomly lynched "1" flips town | there is scum among the "1"s) * P(there is scum among the "1"s) + P(a randomly lynched "1" flips town | there is no scum among the "1"s) * P(there is no scum among the "1"s) = 2/3 * 1/2 + 1 * 1/2 = 5/6

Ergo:

P(there is scum in the "1"s | a randomly lynched "1" flips town) = P(there is scum among the "1"s AND a randomly lynched "1" flips town) / P(a randomly lynched "1" flips town) = (1/2 * 2/3) / (5/6) = 2/5

Bayes' theorem

The above is pretty much an application of Bayes' theorem using only elementary probability theory. Bayes' theorem is an useful tool widely used in forensics, so I recommend looking it up if you aren't familar with it already. For those who are familar with it, one can compute the above probabilities more easily by applying it directly in the following way:

P(there is scum in the "1"s | a randomly lynched "1" flips town) = P(a randomly lynched "1" flips town | there is scum amongst the "1"s) * P(there is scum amongst the "1"s) / P(a randomly lynched "1" flips town) = 2/3 * 1/2 / (5/6) = 2/5

Conclusion

Right now, there is only a (base) chance of 2/5 to have scum among the 1s, and both me and Viomi each have a probability of 1/5 to be scum from a generic bystander's perpective. Moreover, if I or Viomi were to die and flip town, then the last standing player would have chance 1/4 to be scum.

The above does not factor in how scummy players act, which can modify the probability that they are scum. The above does not apply when players from a group die by nightkill: nightkills are guaranteed to hit townies, so they do not impact the probability of having scum among a group (unless they killed the last survivor; also, that does not account for the question "why would scum kill players from their own number group?")

[Aster]

At this point, I think a Viomi lynch simply isn't going to happen; at least, not now. Just like yesterday's mutant and pisskop debacle, a whole lot of players are happy to join the bandwagon and race a target to L-1, but nobody actually intended to lynch them. And I don't feel like hammering her under these circumstances either.

So I'm going to sidetrack and propose a fresh new target:

CommKnight

.

My main reason for picking CommKnight are his insistent attempts to lock down the lynch to specific targets and calling those who do not follow him scummy.

Let's look at the timeline. In post 560 he claims that there are most likely scum in the top 5 players. He also wants to lynch one of the players who sent in "5" because of his gut feeling about that number.

In his very next post 603 he demands to lynch nobody above Misa, because of "protecting power roles". Ironically, in the very same post he demands we back up our claims with cop investigations if we want to lynch among the top 5, which is virtually impossible for most of us and even goes quite contrary to protecting the cop's identity.

In post 615 he once again forcefully pushes on with lynching either Chip or City, for no other reason than that they sent in "5". He also wants to remind us that not following his orders is scummy. In post 621, he delivers us some new grade-A bullshit theory on why numbers 1/3/5 have to be scum and ergo we should lynch among the number "5".

Now in post 764 he once again tries to tell us that the only viable alternative to lynching Viomi is lynching Chip. Not that he ever stated why he wanted to lynch Chip, maybe because Chip sent in a 5?

CommKnight, guess what?

I'm sick of you telling me who we can and cannot lynch.

VOTE: CommKnight

Yes, that just happens to be one of the players above Misa. Mad?

I already explained why CommKnight was somewhat suspicious based on the mafia nightkill in post 580. Of course, it'd be madness to lynch somebody based on that alone, but I do think it nicely corroborates the story of CommKnight being scum, realising they screwed up with the nightkill, and now desperately trying to keep the lynch away from the top 5 because there are scum in the top 5.

[Aster]

I am starting to get seriously agitated by Chip's continuous dodging of mutant's questions. I was kinda considering to switch my vote, but CommKnight has started agitating me even more in his latest post:

There are 8 possible PRs existing

Texcat - 2 (8/8 = 100% chance)
Northsidegal - 3 (7/8 = 87.5% chance)
Assemblerotws - 4 (6/8 = 75% chance)
CommKnight - 6 (5/8 = 62.5% chance)
Mutantdevle - 8 (4/8 = 50% chance)
MisaTange - 30 (We know they landed VT)
CityElectric - 5 (3/8 = 37.5% chance)
Chip Butty - 5 (2/8 = 25% chance)
Wilky - 7 (1/8 = 12.5% chance)
Creature - 7
Lalendra - 7
Aster - 1
Pisskop - 1 (Confirmed VT)
Viomi - 1

Those percentages assume that the one above them landed an unclaimed PR. For each one failed, the person below them gets a better chance of landing a PR during the draft).

Great, at least you acknowledge that those percentages only hold when everyone above then hits their powerrole, which will most probably not be the case. Ergo, the probabilities you posted are bullshit.

If we assume that every player independently uniformly chooses one out the 8 available slots, then the probability that player n+1 lands a powerrole can be computed as (7/8)ⁿ. I can prove this claim, but it'd involve advanced mathematics so I suppose nobody is interested. I converted this into numerical results for your convenience:

• Texcat - 2 (100% chance)
  
• Northsidegal - 3 (87.5% chance)
  
• Assemblerotws - 4 (76.6% chance)
  
• CommKnight - 6 (67.0% chance)
  
• Mutantdevle - 8 (58.6% chance)
  
• MisaTange - 30 (VT, 0% chance)
  
• CityElectric - 5 (51.3% chance)
  
• Chip Butty - 5 (44.9% chance)
  
• Wilky - 7 (39.3% chance)
  
• Creature - 7 (34.4% chance)
  
• Lalendra - 7 (30.1% chance)
  
• Aster - 1 (26.3% chance)
  
• Pisskop - 1 (VT, 0% chance)
  
• Viomi - 1 (23.0% chance)

Of course, the above list of probabilities is in practice bullshit as well because my assumptions didn't factor in any of the following:

• The information given by the host that switching the order of the numbers 1 and 7 would have no impact on the role distribution;
  
• The fact that the mafia collaborate on their role choice;
  
• The fact that players do not uniformly choose slots; the higher players are more likely to go for popular slots while the lower ranked players will probably go for the weaker ones.

All in all, I don't think I can make an accurate estimate for the chance that players have powerroles without doing extensive analysis of past games, which I don't feel like doing. At any rate, I think that the players lower on the list actually have a higher probability of having powerroles than my list suggests; I just don't know how much higher.

I can't blame CommKnight for not being able to properly find out the probabilities of players having powerroles. What I however do blame CommKnight for is taking his blatantly wrong list of "probability player X has powerrole" which blatantly underestimate the probabilities of low-order players having powerroles and using it to support his motion to lynch low-order players.

Like, seriously. When you suggest that there is zero chance that anyone below wilky has a powerrole, you should realise how far off the mark you are and that your list does not give an even remotely fair representation of the truth.

So you may be saying "Cool Comm, but who cares?" Well, Mutant and above (the top 5) have over a 50% chance of landing a PR. 2 of which ARE town with probably 4 of us being town and 1 being scum. So why avoid the top 5? You're going fucking hit a town PR which might end up being jailkeeper or doctor or even the bloody cop.

I'm not pushing easy lynches. I'm pushing slots I think are scum that

virtually have 0 chance of being a town PR

. I'm confident there's 2 scum in the 5's and below in drafting order. 1, 5, 7. Those are the 3 numbers picked more than once and successfully lynching a scummy in ANY of those numbers pretty much clears everyone else who chose that number. So not only am I avoiding potential town PRs, I'm essentially pushing for the ability to clear multiple people based on getting a successful scum flip or two.

And yet you still present your list as evidence to support your agenda with only the side remark that "Those percentages assume that the one above them landed an unclaimed PR." without any further consideration to the amount of bias this introduces.

You even further reinforce your point by stating again that the lower roles have virtually 0 chance of having power roles. That statement really makes it look like you're just trying to get us to ignore the flaws in your analysis and ignore the possibility of having low-order powerroles.

Tl;dr:

CommKnight is trying to deceive town for his own agenda. Deceiving town is both antitown and scummy. My vote stays where it is.

[Aster]

I don't see the need to use math.

Otherwise I could say everybody IMPOV has ~27% chance of being scum.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman

But actually, you know what? Fine. Go ahead and don't use math. But while you're not using math, at least don't pretend you are and don't use intentionally incorrect math to support obviously false statements. If you can follow that last part, you'll be far ahead of CommKnight.

[Aster]

I've been reading through CommKnight's ISO and I came across something really interesting. During day 1, he said:

However, today I'd prefer a Mutant lynch as priority #1, he is the most anti-town player here and his play is definitely a scum perspective looking for info on town PRs.

Then, during the second day he said:

We continue with pushing people below Misa, I'm even including Mutant to avoid lynching today and I fucking SR the shit out of that slot. But protecting our PRs is much more valuable.

The interesting part is that during the first day, he wanted to lynch mutant. Then, during the second day when the NK indicated a high scum density in the top 5, he suddenly went like "We can't lynch mutant! We might lynch a powerrole!"

Amusingly, the probability that mutant has a powerrole has remained constant between these two days. If he's so against lynching the top 5 because they contain powerroles, then he should also have been against lynching the top 5 because they contain powerroles yesterday. What new information did we get on day two that could've made him so gung-ho of a sudden? The only new information that instigated him is

that there is probably a high scum density above Misa

.

A bit ironic, isn't it? He is fine lynching the top 5 during day 1, then learns that there is probably scum among the top 5, and suddenly he vehemently opposes lynching the top 5.

More amusingly, he's completely fine, and even pushing for, lynching one of the place 7/8 players (City and Chip, the number "5" crowd.) City ranks directly below mutant in terms of chance of being scum (City having an absolute 12.5% chance less of having a powerrole according to his own list; I think a relative 12.5%/absolute 7.3% would be a somewhat better estimate.)

Even though he is willing to lynch a "5" player based on mere gut, he will let his "fucking SR" mutant live merely because mutant is 12.5% more likely to have a powerrole.

This just doesn't seem like sane town play.

Going with a relative stupid lynch based on draft order instead of your huge scumread merely because of a 12.5% chance of hitting a powerrole is insanity. Even more insane is that the cause that he's no longer fine with lynching his massive scumread is because his scumread falls amongst the players with high scum density.

Oh, and here comes the best part:

You know what? Fuck it.

VOTE: Assembler.

At least when it all backfires, I can say I told you so.

Now that his business with "protect the powerroles" has somewhat backfired, he's more than happy to just lynch Assembler. What happened to your "fucking SR" on mutant? Do you realise that according to your own logic, Assembler is a whopping 25% more likely to have a powerrole than mutant?

It looks to me like

you don't actually care about the powerroles

. After attracting attention with your protection scheme, you're just jumping on the Assembler wagon now so you may be proven right tomorrow. If you really gave up on the protection agenda you pushed this whole time, then you'd be going back to mutant or somebody else you seriously scumread. But no, you're jumping on the new wagon that will probably lynch a town powerrole and prove yourself right tomorrow.

At this point things actually start to make sense. Here is the timeline of CommKnight's thought process:

1. During the first day, CommKnight wants to lynch mutant because the town has rallied against mutant and he seems like an easy lynch;
   
2. During the first night, the scum decided to kill MisaTange because there was no viable target above Misa due to high scum density and not wanting to narrow the surviving top players down to only those who are scum;
   
3. During the second day, CommKnight continues the push to not kill top players because (1) there is relatively many scum among them, and (2) even if they lynch a town player there, they'd end up leaving isolating the scum top players. He covers up his intentions by whining about lynching powerroles;
   
4. CommKnight doesn't actually have anything against mutant. He seemed an easy lynch yesterday, but today lynching mutant would mean lynching among the top 5, which is a bad idea because of the above reasons. He decides to use the "powerrole" excuse to jump off the wagon he completely supported yesterday.
   
5. Now that his protection racket doesn't seem to be working and a slight bandwagon against Assembler has started, whom CommKnight knows to be town and probably has a powerrole, he jumps on it, so that he can claim he was right all along tomorrow when a town powerrole gets lynched.

Tl;dr: I have high confidence that CommKnight is scum.

[Aster]

3.) I'll say this: The role I got, I am almost certain the 3 people above me are town. Because this role pair would've been one of the FIRST picks for scum and I successfully denied them the role.

And yet you voted for Assembler, who is above you and therefore almost certainly town, just so you could prove your point?

[Aster]

3.) I'll say this: The role I got, I am almost certain the 3 people above me are town. Because this role pair would've been one of the FIRST picks for scum and I successfully denied them the role.

And yet you voted for Assembler, who is above you and therefore almost certainly town, just so you could prove your point?

Yes. If town is stupid in my games, I WILL do something to prove my point so that we can get back on track and lynch scum. I don't carry vindictive agendas outside of a game so even if town is stupid one game, I won't hold it against anyone in the next game because it's all in-game banter/heat.

If you think I'll hold punches, you really do have a bad read of me.

In other words: "Muh town is not listening to me and doing stupid things! I should punch town in the face to prove my point! That'll show them how right I am!"

Did you ever realise how much you sound like an abusive jerk? I hope you don't behave like this in real life.

I'm also noticing a pretty strong correlation between how scummy/antitown you think somebody is and the amount in which that somebody goes against your orders. Coincidence?

Anyway, what do you think about Cheeky? I'd like to assume she's town, but her game so far has been pushing my read away from that. She's even higher on my list than Aster and Viomi which is pretty hard at this point in the game.

If she's higher than even

me

, I guess she must be

really

scummy. Of course, that's understandable as she voted you, townreads me, and even defended herself against a bunch of your accusations. It'd certainly be nice if somebody else gave you some

real

arguments against her so you don't have to make them up yourself.

But anyway, can you explain why you would even want to assume such a scummy person is town?

[Aster]

Oh look. Mutant is using his brain. He's closer to the target than anyone so far, but to protect other PRs, I'm not hard claiming as my claim would just make my role useless at this point.

Either they need to shoot me tonight or push for my mislynch today. The question is, will they take the risk of shooting me tonight? PGO, Doctor, Watcher, many roles are still possibly in play that would not end well for them.

@Creature, well if you don't want to lynch me, Mutant doesn't want to lynch me, Lale doesn't want to lynch me, we gotta pick someone instead of beating around the bush.

I'm not eating this.

First, there is

no way

town should let a totally obvious scumbag get away just because they're claiming a powerrole. You know, we already knew that you most likely had one and we also know that having a powerrole doesn't prevent you from being scum. If we let scum get away just because they have a powerrole, town will never get anywhere.

Second, you started off by claiming a role

3.) I'll say this: The role I got, I am almost certain the 3 people above me are town. Because this role pair would've been one of the FIRST picks for scum and I successfully denied them the role.

and now you're not willing to clarify? I give you two options:

1. There is only a single obvious slot that scum would absolutely pick;
   
2. There is not only a single obvious slot that scum would absolutely pick.

If you believe the former case, it should already be bloody obvious what role you have; indeed, the only role I can think of is Cop/1-Shot-Redirector. If you believe the latter case, there is no way that your role preempts the existence of scum above you because there are other roles that scum above you may have picked, and in this case you could only be scum who is trying to protect your scumbros above you.

So, not assuming you are a massive hypocrite believing in the second case and just saying bullshit to protect your scumbros above you, you clearly must be the cop. After having given everyone enough information to deduce that you are our cop, why aren't you sharing your investigative results with town?

Or are you actually not the town cop, but the 1-shot-redirector or something completely different? Do you fear that hardclaiming any further would leave you open to getting busted by the rolecop/tracker/[whomever really has your fakeclaimed role]?

If you were a townie, your actions just don't make sense. You've given scum enough information that you'll definitely be the NK target barring doctor/jailkeeper/watcher protection, but you're not giving town any the information that would make the sacrifice or your secret identity useful. It seems like you're just trying to use your PR as a shield against your overwhelming scumminess, but don't have any regard for town's interests. Which, of course, makes you scum.

[Aster]

I am growing increasingly suspicious of this Viomi wagon. First, the entire Viomi wagon today was born out of Viomi's bad attitude against town. Annoying, I acknowledge, but it is not a major scumtell that should cause one to ignore everything else and focus purely on getting her lynched. Compare that to CommKnight, who may as well be the scumking of the game.

Second, it is remarkable how Viomi's wagon was pretty much ignored while she was at L-1, as in "Uhh, Viomi is at L-1, but what're we s'pposed to do with that?" However, now that a CommKnight wagon has started, some players (esp. mutant) suddenly seem desperate to get her lynched—players who weren't even on the Viomi wagon originally and could easily have hammered her a hundred hours ago.

Mutant, the currently greatest pusher of the Viomi bandwagon, seems suspicious in particular. He wasn't originally on the wagon and no new evidence against Viomi has surfaced since; he is only pushing the wagon now to protect CommKnight.

I want to point out the contrast between the following posts:

I mean, there's no guarantee he is the cop, but I'm pretty fucking certain he is an investigative role. The only investigative role that is commonly scum is the role cop.

Comm, are you prepared to hard claim a specific role? That would really help you out right now. If you think you are going to die tonight anyway then you may as well truthfully claim your role as you literally have nothing to lose by it.

Guys, Seriously? Do. Not. Lynch. Comm.

And Comm, if you are a cop then you only have 1 confirmed townie under your belt. Don't tell us who that is, especially if they are higher than you on the draft list. Why? Because that is almost guaranteed to get them shot after you.

But seriously everyone, can we please just not lynch Comm today? Lynch him tomorrow if we need to.

VOTE: Viomi

What happened between the point where mutant wanted Comm to hardclaim and reveal his investigations, and the point where he no longer cares about him hardclaiming and doesn't want him to reveal his investigations anymore? (After his own rolefishing yesterday, to boot?)

The thing that happened inbetween was CommKnight declaring that he refused to hardclaim. I find it ironic that after asking CommKnight to hardclaim (who had made a pretty strong softclaim) and CommKnight refusing to (which suggests he may not be the cop after all), mutant suddenly 180s and defends Comm's decision not to claim. He really looks like he's trying to protect Comm using any means.

And what's up with this "lynch him tomorrow" anyway? Why does he so badly want CommKnight to live another day? Why do we need to sacrifice Viomi for that one day? I don't see why a townie would want this, but there is enough reason why smuggling in just a single extra mislynch would be a great help towards the mafia. In addition, maybe CommKnight isn't the cop at all and has an ability that the mafia desperately wants to use one more night, which is why he wants to put the lynch off to tomorrow?

---

On another note, I'm noticing a strong buddying between mutant and Creature, a strong buddying between Creature and CommKnight, and a strong buddying between CommKnight and mutant. This suggests a Mutant/Creature/CommKnight scumteam.

I will not move my vote off CommKnight. I will not move it to Viomi, not even to avoid a no-lynch. CommKnight is an order of magnitude more scummy than Viomi is, and the bandwagon against Viomi is suspicious by itself; I strongly suspect it's being pushed by mafia.

[Aster]

VOTE: Aster

This is scum. Let's just fucking lynch it already and clear Viomi,

Current # of arguments given against Aster: 0

Try harder, please.

[Aster]

I could rip apart pretty much every sentence in CommKnight's last six posts, but this point I'm wondering whether I should still bother replying to him at all. He doesn't seem to be a troll, but with yet another baseless and retarded assertion that there is scum among the 1s and 5s (which has been statistically disproven many pages ago), I'm starting to think that this guy just lives in his own world and ignores all statements and facts that don't fit into his own plot, and then hopes that people will believe him if he just repeats himself often enough.

I've stated my case already. Since then, CommKnight has only been digging himself an even deeper hole instead of alleviating concerns. Frankly, I can't quite figure out why this guy hasn't been lynched yet.

[Aster]

Wait, you think CK is actually scum or just a huge moron?

I think he's scum for the reasons posted mostly in post 958, augmented somewhat with his business around voting Assembler and "pseudohardclaiming but not actually willing to tell my role". In addition to being scum, he's a huge moron as well.

[Aster]

Prodging here with Swiss precision <3

Frankly, I don't think much is going on right now. I still think that CommKnight is the only player with a solid scumread, and I still think he is the one we should lynch. There are a whole bunch of other players who I think are at least antitown, but CommKnight remains the only one whose actions are clearly scum and cannot be explained with VI.

As for the discussion on the last few pages, I think Creature is trying to waffle around with posts like

So shouldn't CityElectric or Lalendra be policy lynched?

So now who do we discuss about?

Any other player we can discuss about?

I guess we'll have to work together, because apparently Chip Butty and CheekyTeeky will do everything to get one of the generic "scumreads" (CommKnight, Creature, Viomi) lynched today.

I guess we never needed this deadline extension if everybody simply won't move.

Do you have anyone outside CK, Viomi and me you would accept to wagon?

We could go back to Lalendra, the problem is getting support.

... and a whole lot of others that I don't feel quoting.

The impression that I'm getting is that Creature has taken "CommKnight is a bad" and is now trying to get anyone but CommKnight lynched. Aside from CommKnight and Texcat, Creature seems fine with lynching just about anyone.

Ironically, despite pushing strongly away from the CommKnight bandwagon, he's not actually pushing towards any other bandwagon. Similar to his business with mutantdevle. It looks like Creature knows more about who

not

to lynch than who to lynch.

Which really isn't helping town. Creature, if you want to avoid lynching CommKnight so badly, how about you find somebody and deliver a solid case against them? Like, so solid that your target looks more scummy than CommKnight?

Because right now it looks like you are just waffling around, condemning the CommKnight wagon for no reason flat, yet are not willing to take responsibility for any alternative action. Just about everything you're saying looks noncommittal. You've filled five pages with "Who shall we lynch?", but I don't think I've seen any scumhunting done.

I'm quite suspicious of Creature's noncommittal buddying. If CommKnight flips red, I think he's the next player we should go after.

[Aster]

You can join any of Chip and Lalendra. CK should also join, so does mutant. Eventually town will have to compromise into the wagon (and get scum as a bonus).

I mean, he didn't say he'd be cool lynching anyone, he said he'd be cool with Chip or Lalendra. Both of which are very scummy players who were both on wagons I know were on town, sooo... Yeah, wanna help us get Lalendra?

In some posts such as the one you quoted, Creature does indeed narrow down to a few specific targets. However, as can be seen by reading through his ISO, Creature will keep suggesting different players to get lynched if he doesn't get support for whom he suggests. Most of his suggenstions circle around the same set of players

Hi, I'm there, anyone want to talk with me?

We could talk mainly about our lynch options for today:
Aster
CheekyTeeky
Chip Butty
CityElectric
Lalendra

That said, it does appear to me that he's more looking for whom of those he can get lynched than for whom of those he thinks is the most scummy. He often proposes some of them, and when he doesn't get support, he proposes some others. I also think the following post is remarkable:

I would do northsidegal if we had way more time. Maybe we can do her tomorrow.

The reason he isn't doing northside is because of draft order (1328.) I quite wonder what he meant with "do"? If he means figuring out whether northside is scum, reading through her ISO and putting together a case shouldn't take more than a few hours, for which we have plenty of time. I suppose that with "do" he means "get northside lynched", which would be problematic because he cannot use the "avoid powerroles" sentiment to move players from CommKnight to northside.

This gives me again the impression that Creature is not concerned with whom is scum but with whom he can get lynched.

---

As for Lalendra, most of the things she said look sane to me (a whole lot more sane that what I'm seeing

some others

in this thread saying.) I acknowledge that she's yet another lurker, especially during the second day. Currently, we've got Lalendra, Northside, CityElectric and Texcat lurking. As much as lurkers hurt town, we currently cannot afford to policy lynch all of them—town may well end up dead before we're done lynching lurkers.

I think policy lynching lurkers is better reserved for when there are no better scummy targets (like Creature claims to be the case), but I currently have high confidence that CommKnight is scum (and thus, likely powerrole scum) and I think it is right now a much better idea to get rid of that scumbag and reduce scumnumbers by 1, than to go after lurkers right now. Moreover, Creature is quite acting like Comm's scumbuddy so I'm also quite suspicious of whatever bandwagon he's pushing.

[Aster]

Creature, your posting style is pretty annoying. Not scummy, just annoying. Can't you just write a single coherent post with your thoughts? You've just taken up half a page just to respond to one of my posts. Anyway, let me respond to some of yours as well.

It looks like Creature knows more about who not to lynch than who to lynch.

Yeah, you're right, I find it easier to find a solid townread than a solid scumread.

Also, you're basically contradicting this affirmation:

Creature seems fine with lynching just about anyone.

And townreads happen to be what we don't need, because the lynch is asking who we think is scum, not who we think is town. It's fine to townread somebody and push for a different player you scumread, but you don't. You're just interjecting that you townread everyone who is getting bandwagoned against. You are like a bunch of politicans who agree that budget cuts need to be made (popular opinion), but are opposed to every single suggested budget cut (unpopular opinion). We aren't going to get anything accomplished this way.

You know? Scum don't know who to lynch, they only know who not to lynch. Start acting like a townie and figure out who

should

be lynched.

And no, it does not contradict my following affirmation wherein "just about everyone" refers to everyone except a select few that you're opposed to. Your attitude is not "I want to lynch one of [these people]", your attitude is "I do not want lynch one of [these people] and I'm fine with everyone else." And you're giving me the impression that you're very willing to lynch outside of your 5/6-ish "viable lynches" as long as there is support for somebody else and they are not one of your supposedly "hard townreads".

Just look at your last post 1360. You're once again asking somebody to figure out for you who to bandwagon against. You're even asking one of the players who you are suspicious of who you should bandwagon against. It's kind of pathetic how little you care about actually scumhunting.

I was like "do you want to push Lalendra?" "I guess we have enough support to do Lalendra or Chip" and you post this?

Yes, I do. You've been dancing around many targets. When you asked "do you want to push for Lalendra", you're not pushing for Lalendra, you're hoping that

somebody else

will do the pushing for you. If this this "somebody else" didn't exist, you'd step over to something else like "do you want to push for Chip"? Lalendra seems to be the one that Viomi will support you on, so that why that one has been stickier than the others.

I've been searching through your ISO, but I can't find any point at which you actually present a case against Lalendra outside of post 873, which can hardly be called a "case".

Have you ever actually posted a case against anyone? I can't fine one in skimming through your ISO; the closest thing I see is 228, which is about defending mutant. You only ever seem to post opinions like "how about we go after X" and hope somebody else will fill in the details for you.

Can you link me to a post you made in which you present significant evidence against anyone?

However, as can be seen by reading through his ISO, Creature will keep suggesting different players to get lynched if he doesn't get support for whom he suggests. Most of his suggenstions circle around the same set of players

*makes one sentence*
*contradicts that sentence in the next sentence*

"Different players" refers to "different players among the set of players you circle around". The set of players you circle around isn't exactly small. After adding Northside to the set in post 1215, you're circling around half the living players.

Tl;dr:

Team Creature doesn't shut down any case at the speed of light.

[Aster]

The difference is that we're trying to make a scum lynch a compromise lynch because we lack support, unlike CK wagon which is the definition of compromise.

I was more collectively there, trying to find agreement.

I'm trying to find where people agree.

I gotta see if I'll have support, otherwise I'd be wasting my time.

I hope you realise that one quarter of the players is scum, and scum will only ever agree/compromise to lynch townies? (Bussing aside)

Looking for players on which everyone can agree will only yield you lynched townies.

Also, ain't I trying to figure out who should be lynched?

Do I need to repeat myself? What you're doing isn't trying to figure out who should be lynched, you're trying to get others to figure it out for you.

[Aster]

Alright, I must admit that there turned out to be a whole lot more behind the Lalendra bandwagon than I expected, though I doubt Creature was aware of anything about that. I still think Creature is just throwing random names around and Viomi is the one who picked up Lalendra.

Lalendra appears to be a whole lot fluffier than I realised. She straight up matches the description of an active lurker except for not being active. Her post 734 does indeed seem hypocritical for the reasons Viomi described.

Lalendra certainly isn't the only lurker around, but her sheer amount of fluff does indeed deserve attention. I still think that CommKnight is the most obvious scum around here, and he still has the biggest bandwagon (and building a bandwagon is necessary this close to the end of the day), but I'm willing to "compromise" and move my vote to Lalendra to avoid a no-lynch.

FoS: Lalendra

(Will move my vote if the Lalendra bandwagon overtakes CommKnight.)

[Aster]

Creature, your style of baselessly insulting anyone who thinks you're scummy is reminding me of a certain someone earlier this day. Also,

@Mod: Did mafia have pre-game chat before draft was sent in?

Throughout the bidding phases, the thread is locked, however, mafia may collude privately during this time and then again throughout the day.

Oh, I noticed this. Scum may have hit the same number.

Just what part of the post you quoted makes you say that? Also, are you talking about accidentally hitting or intentionally hitting?

[Aster]

Although I don't like Chip, who is mostly posting stupid comments which have an uncanny mix of being both evading and confrontational, I don't think that he's as scummy as CommKnight, scumbuddyish as Creature, or as active lurkish as Lalendra (now Uzi).

Comparing Lalendra to Chip, Lalendra had a far more clear pattern of actively lurking and granting absolutely no information whatsoever. Chip also has a pattern of avoiding giving information, but does so in a confrontational manner. I don't like his confrontational manner, but I don't see what mafia has to gain by insulting instead of answering questions when at L-2. On the other hand, this is not the kind of behaviour I feel like we should let Chip get away with.

It looks like we won't be getting CommKnight lynched today. As such, I may as well UNVOTE: CommKnight. On a side note, it's been four and a half days since CommKnight's last post.

@Mod:

prod please?

As for Uzi, the replacement for Lalendra, it looks like he may have started to contribute by now. That does not change the issue of whether Lalendra's blatant active lurking was motivated by scum, but it does make me no longer consider him a lurker. It does feel a bit mean to lynch him over the actions of his previous incarnation which he can't do anything about.

That said, mafia is about who is scum and not about what is mean. Between Chip and Lalendra, I think that Lalendra's lurking is more indicative of being scum than Chip is. Moreover, with scumking CommKnight having pushed hard for the Chip wagon, I'm kind of sceptical of it. Thus, for now, I'll compromise VOTE: Lil Uzi Vert.

[Aster]

Lurking isn’t alignment indicative but I’m going to partly put to that the side for a bit. Why is dealing with situations in an aggressive way more likely to come from town than scum? I think it would be more helpful if you explored why Chip’s behavior is argumentative or hostile and determine if said behavior is genuine and what motivation behind it if any.

While I agree that lurking usually is NAI, Lalendra was participating in a rather extreme form of active lurking (without the activity), saying nothing but fluff to make it look like she was participating to some degree. That, I think, is alignment indicative.

With Chip being hostile, I refer to posts like 812, 1493 and 1499 where Chip takes the attitude "I'm not answering your questions because I think you're dumb". This attitude does benefit neither town nor mafia, so I guess it's motivated by his inner personality and therefore genuine. (What does "genuine" mean anyway? It looks like a buzzword that people keep throwing around...)

Fluff is not an AI thing either. There’s no motivation to do it and if you believe that prod dodging is one, consider that moderators can just force replace players they deem to be purposefully trying to not get prodded.

Moderate amounts of fluff isn't AI. High amounts of fluff, as in fluffing to make it look like you're playing the game while you aren't, I think is alignment indicative.

Also, whether moderators can theorethically force replace prodging players is irrelevant. They could probably replace anyone if they really wanted to. As a practical matter—the only one that actually matters, mods won't force replace prodging players unless they've written rules against it. This game has no rules against prodging nor has the mod spoken out against it, so we're free to assume prodging will keep you safe.

[Aster]

K
VOTE: CommKnight

Not that one.

Yes, that one.

UNVOTE: Lil Uzi Vert
VOTE: CommKnight

[Aster]

I guess that CommKnight still won't get lynched today after all, and neither will Lalendra/LUV. Between lynching Chip and No Lynch, I'd rather lynch Chip, so

UNVOTE: CommKnight
VOTE: Chip Butty

That puts Chip at L-1.

[Aster]

Alright. It was obvious that I was going to get CommKnight (replacement: sheepsaysmeep) lynched today. Nevertheless, I am somewhat amused by the sheer effort the mafia is expending to counteract this.

---

The case on the Sheepsaysmeep+Viomi scumteam

Of course, CommKnight was already obvious scum yesterday, but let's not talk about that. Since then, many curious things have happened. First, CommKnight went to inactive mode and later replaced out right when Creature & Viomi finally managed to get some steam off the CommKnight wagon and redirected towards others. This is weird because he

hadn't gotten a single prod before then

. My only guesses are that either something happened to him in real life, or he decided that it would be a good move for him to strategically switch out and let somebody else replace him. Somebody who wouldn't be expected to explain all the lies he told.

Moving on. Sheepsaysmeep (henceforth: Sheepy) replaces him and he starts of writing pages full replying to some posts with ungrounded statements ranging from "this post makes me throw up" to "that's more like middle school girls". Very helpful indeed. At least now we know who he thinks is town and who he thinks is scum, don't we? (Hint: we don't.)

Somehow

I end up being his favourite target, having something bad to say about just about every single post I've ever made. A pretty good move for scum actually: I am the biggest threat to his continued existence, so of course I'd be the best target to smear. But that is not all; somewhere in his ramblings, a true treasure is hidden:

@Aster - why carry around a list of suspicious players but no townreads? i would also be tr'ing vioimi for the reasons he sr's her for in 374. and creature beats me to the point next page.

aster isnt convincing me he's town; i have HUGE problems with his playstyle, the way he only puts out sr's and only makes cases and stuff. it just doesnt feel natural enough

First, I need to point out that the first quote is one of the earlier posts he made. He started reading through the thread and simultaneously posting only after he already jumped on my meta of only ever finding scumreads instead of townreads. (Which, yes, is my meta. It isn't secret; you can check my previous game. I don't see how it's scummy.)

What makes this notion so juicy however, is that (1) I can confirm that I'm in a neighbourhood with Viomi, and (2) last night, I told Viomi in our private neighbourhood that

I'm kind of the opposite of Creature: I tend to find many scumreads and few townreads.

Amusing isn't it? I tell Viomi privately that I tend to find scumreads instead of townreads, and the next day Sheepy immediately jumps on that detail—a detail nobody in my entire mafia career has ever jumped on before.

What's more, Viomi is all of a sudden and completely unexpectedly

jumping on me as well

. Is it coincidence that Sheepy just happened to be the first person ever to think only hunting for scum is scummy, or

did he already have that point in the back of his head when he started reading through the thread

?

Clearly Viomi isn't in a neighbourhood with Sheepy because Viomi claims to have been roleblocked, so Sheepy didn't learn about my statement that way. However, suppose that Viomi were to be scum, then she'd probably copy the entire contents of the neighbourhood thread to the scumthread, and Sheepy would've quickly learned of that detail by reading the scumthread.

---

Also, what's up with Viomi suddenly jumping on me? Although I was never quite sure of her being town, she at least pretended to be at good terms with me until yesterday. However, by now I am starting to realise that she was just trying to pocket me. I'll admit that the reason that I no longer tried to lynch her D2 was because (1) I was in a neighbourhood with her, making her more valuable if she was a townie, and (2) in the private thread, she made clear that she was brighter than she was showing in the thread, suggesting that she was intentionally acting murky to simultaneously keep scum from NK'ing her and trying to bait scum into giving reactions.

However, now I look back, I think that this should've been a huge red flag:

I'm a neighborizer. I picked you for two reasons:

1. I have a very strong town read on you
2. You think I'm scum

I also really wanna know your thoughts and need some help on who to have my eyes on, my reads are pretty bad almost always.

She neighbourised me because I thought she was scum? I mean, it is a valid tactic to get one of the main wagoners off your case, but it could also suggest that she was scum who was just neighbourising those who were the biggest threats to them, just to get them off their cases.

She alse gives me a token "I have a very strong townread on you". Throughout the entire thread, she was acting way more sure of my towniness than she should've reasonable been. It was quite difficult to tell the difference between her really being that naive, or her just trying to pocket me—especially since she even admitted to falsely pretending to townread others.

She also has been lobbying hard to get me to vote Lalendra. After the CommKnight wagon seemed no longer viable, I reluctantly agreed to, but that seems to have been one of my mistakes. By now, it has become quite clear that she was merely trying to pocket me. In hindsight, I should've jumped onto her way earlier.

Additionally, there is one more particular post that is bothering me a lot now:

Hey Aster, let's get Lalendra today, alright? If she

somehow

flips green (she won't), we'll lynch Creature tomorrow for pulling me away from CommKnight. And if Creature flips red at that point, then we take CK too. Sound good?

She made this post publicly in this very thread. My thought to this post was, "Why not lynch CommKnight tomorrow anyhow?" but it seems clear now that she's putting bait: tries to get me onboard with "let's lynch CommKnight tomorrow when the bandwagon becomes actually viable" and then puts in an escape clause "but if Lalendra is town, we should lynch Creature instead for no reason". By now, I bet she knows that Lalendra/LUV is a townie, was planning to use this today to pull away from the CommKnight bandwagon, and then use the escape clause tomorrow to not revisit the CommKnight bandwagon.

---

So, what do we have here in the end?

• A neighbouriser who only wanted to get me off her case and pocket me;
  
• A sudden CommKnight replacement who gives the impression that she knows what was said in the neighbourhood with Viomi;
  
• Viomi who has been using her neigbourhood powers to desperately get me off the CommKnight bandwagon;
  
• A sudden collaboration with both CommKnight/Sheepy suddenly jumping onto me out of nowhere now I've got clear intentions to move on with the CommKnight wagon.

I'm calling it:

there is no way that Sheepy and Viomi are not a scumteam

. I'd vote both of them as they're both as good as conf!scum to me, but anyway; I have to start somewhere.

VOTE: Sheepsaysmeep

[Aster]

^ Taking that as a scumclaim.

You read my post in two minutes?

[Aster]

Actually, where did sheep hint he saw your conversation with Viomi?

His statements:

@Aster - why carry around a list of suspicious players but no townreads? i would also be tr'ing vioimi for the reasons he sr's her for in 374. and creature beats me to the point next page.

aster isnt convincing me he's town; i have HUGE problems with his playstyle, the way he only puts out sr's and only makes cases and stuff. it just doesnt feel natural enough

From the about 20 players I've played with on mafiascum (plus the everyone I've played with elsewhere), he's the first one to pretend that putting out only scumreads is scummy. Moreover, he does that quickly, long before he has even read through my posts. This could be an incredible coincidence, but the odd thing is that I had just told Viomi last night that I tend to look for scumreads instead of townreads.

If Viomi were to systematically copy all posts from the neighbourhood over to the scumthread, then it would make complete sense why Sheepy noticed so early that I was keeping a list of scumreads and no townreads: if he already knew that (1) he should lynch Aster and (2) Aster has tedencies to only carry scumreads, then of course he'd quickly jump onto the opportunity to use "why aren't you carrying townreads?"

I'd imagine that if Sheepy was not aware of my neighbourhood chat, then it would take an incredible coincidence for him to (1) be the first to take making a list of scumreads as a scumtell and (2) already do that based on only my early game posts, almost as if he knew there wouldn't be coming townreads later. I think this is a kind of subconscious slip: because he knew more about my playstyle from the mafia thread, he looked at my posts differently than he would've if this was his first time reading me.

He made a statement that he's likely to make if he and Viomi were scum, and unlikely to make if he was an unaware townie. (In addition to that, there are many more suggestions that they're working together, but this is a main slip that suggests they're communicating.)

[Aster]

i literally read his posts
at the bottom of every post he would put a list of "suspicious people"

Now "every" is a misrepresentation. I'm fairly certain I've only ever posted two such lists in this entire game. Those two posts have nine posts without a list in between them.

So, where does this "every" come from? Did you expect that more lists happened or were going to happen? Did you, after having been given information by Viomi, immediately assume that these lists were commonplace after seeing the second one?

[Aster]

ok in my mind i remembered there being more than half of the posts having lists
i didnt notice a whole lot of his posts throughout my readthrough i guess
i never said that i read ALL his posts, and i am explicitly clarifying that i did not

And this is the curious part to me. How did you remember

that

part? I don't think you would intentionally claim that "every" post of mine had lists if you didn't believe it to be true, so I'm wondering where that memory came from.

Clearly nowhere near the majority of my posts contain lists—only two out of ~50 do—so I guess you didn't genuinely obtain this memory from the two lists you read.

I can imagine two possibilities:

1. When asked to clarify why you were so focussed on me "posting only srs" so early, you had to make up an excuse. You remembered some of my posts making lists and faulty human memory made you think that there were way more of them than there actually were;
   
2. You already knew from Viomi that I tend to only have scumreads, so when you read the two of my lists, you immediately assumed they were commonplace, generating the faulty memory.

The first scenario implies that you are covering up and lying about where your notion that I only have SRs came from, which suggests you are scum. In the second scenario, you are directly implicated as scum.

On another note, I think

his reasoning is weak, he hadnt committed to anything until today, and his "case" is so narrow viewed

is noteworthy as well. I mean, I think I was pretty committed to getting CommKnight lynched yesterday until it after a long time became clear that lynching him was just not feasible. I also think I've been pretty clear about whomever I believe to be scum, depending on whether you'd call that "comitting".

So where does this noncommittal claim come from? The curious thing is that it's the same thing Viomi has said about me:

They've been super distant and the only real response I could get out of them was trying to tell me town probably wouldn't lynch texcat and other excuses why I shouldn't go after texcat sooooo

Although this does not prove that there is scumchat between Viomi and Sheepy, it does give me the impression that Sheepy blindly trusts everything that Viomi tells him, and that his "noncommital" claim on me is

yet another excuse that Sheepy had to make up on the spot

.

I would say that Viomi is somewhat misrepresenting me here as well. About the texcat issue: when she asked me what I thought about making town go after texcat, she was at L-1 herself and I thought that she'd probably not be able to get the town off her case and jump on somebody else when her only piece of evidence against texcat is "because she's a lurker". I'd also like to clarify that texcat is not the only person talked about and I do for example think that my following statement about CheekyTeeky (who she asked me about shortly after I started my CommKnight campaign) constitutes a real answer:

I don't like Cheeky. I didn't like wilky either, but Cheeky isn't making her position any better.

Post 826 luckily accomplished nothing, but it is remarkable that after reading to page 6 she decided to vote already, and just

happened

to vote the guy who was at L-1. It does seem like a rare scenario to happen coincidentally. I wonder whether she actually knew you were at L-1 but missed that the slot she replaced was already voting you, and tried to sneak in a hammer without having to go through the intent process?

In post 940 she tries, just like CommKnight, to declare certain numbers as "numbers scum would be attracted to". It looks like an attempt to lynch people without needing to consider their posts. I think that unless somebody has done mutant-style statistical analysis of past games, they have no business saying which numbers scum would pick and which scum wouldn't.

In post 948 she proposes to lynch Assembler merely to "test out a theory" (what theory anway?). This frankly, sounds like an unjustifyable waste of a lynch. Also, she might just be scum who just picked Assembler expressedly to disprove the theory. CommKnight, whom I believe to be scum, was remarkably quick to follow her.

After I voted CommKnight, all his posts thereafter did not address my questions and were just beating around the point. In post 989 she somehow thinks that beating around the point makes CommKnight town? She's also back to Assembler for whatever reason in post 973.

There seems to be a bit of conflict between CommKnight and Cheeky, but that may be bussing as well. Especially considering how quickly Cheeky jumped off the CommKnight wagon. I think that Cheeky is scummy and I may call her out on it after I'm done with CommKnight. For now, however, I think that CommKnight is the obvious scum here and I'm focusing on him.

(In case anyone wonders, I'm off the Cheeky wagon for now while there are two far bigger fish to catch.)

[Aster]

Aster, what are your feelings on Northside?

I think that Northside's sudden hammer is antitown, but I'm having trouble figuring out why it makes her scum. As in, what would scum have to gain by unannouncedly hammering somebody who has already two intents against him and doesn't show any desire to actually claim and work himself out of the situation?

The usual reason for scum to suddenly hammer seems to be to seal the deal before town reconsiders and move on. But—and now I kind of agree with Northside—Chip had already shown that he had no desire to claim or try to get himself out of the situation, so I think it is not motivated by wanting to lynch him before he claims. Also, with two intents against him and no other viable lynchwagons, it seems very unlikely that town would move to another target if Northside had kept her mouth shut.

So the thing is that it looks like town nor mafia had anything to gain by Northside's move. This suggests to me that it was an action motivated by idioticity rather than malice, which makes it NAI.

Lynching idiots for being idiots rather than scum hasn't helped us so far, but today there is something more going on; we currently have 10 players alive, 3 of which are scum. We have no idea about the whereabouts of the 1-shot-vig and N3-vig. Suppose that both of them are in mafia hands? If we lynch a townie today, then scum can kill 3 more townies at once during the next night barring jailkeeper/commuter interference. If that happens, then we will have 6 players left tomorrow, 3 of which are scum, ensuring scum victory.

This means that we could be at MyLo without even knowing it.

Of course, it is nowhere certain that scum has both vigs, and

if

Viomi was genuinely roleblocked, the jailkeeper must've been taken over by the universal backup, giving us survival chance. But nevertheless,

today is not a day we can afford to mislynch

.

I can quite see that scum really wants this day to end quickly with whatever lynch they can manage to get. This also explains why Viomi and Sheepy apparently can't seem to decide on whether they'd rather lynch me (the one they wanted to get rid of) or just take Northside (the easier lynch which might guarantee victory). With both of these virtually!conf!scum supporting the Northside wagon, I cannot support it.

[Aster]

@Mod: Could you make this easier for us and modkill Aster for directly quoting a PT? Or is that not against the rules?

Seriously?

You could, you know, just look it up in the rules; they aren't secret. In fact, I already checked that before I accused you of dumping the private thread in the scumthread, and I'm fairly certain that there are exactly zero rules against it.

But that's not the important thing I want to call you out on. During day 1, post 374 I already accused you of feigning ignorance about the game situation in order to make yourself look town: you claimed that scum didn't get to talk before the draft after the host already confirmed they did.

And now, you're pretending to be unaware about whether you can copy private thread material? If you wanted to know, you could just look it up; rules aren't secret. Yet instead you're trying to make a big deal out of it, pretending to think that one cannot quote neighbourhoods while it's the opposite? Am I really supposed to believe that you sincerely didn't know whether it was allowed and thought that just waltzing into the thread claiming it isn't, is a better altenative than just reading the rules? Or did you merely want to make a point "I didn't know one could just copy the neighbourhood so I couldn't possibly have copied it to the scumthread"?

The first time I let you off with suspicion, but now it's a pattern.

You are deliberately feigning ignorance about game setup and rules that scum would know, in at attempt to try to townslip.

This is a very strong scumtell.

[Aster]

The first time I let you off with suspicion, but now it's a pattern. You are deliberately feigning ignorance about game setup and rules that scum would know, in at attempt to try to townslip. This is a very strong scumtell.

Remember when you said that argument was stupid and now you're making said argument? :giggle:

Stop helping scum out and pay attention to the game, Aster.

My, here I thought that I never said that that argument was stupid and that you were merely having a misconception about what I was saying. In fact, I even remember that I corrected your incorrect notion in the private thread...

I agree that post 735 doesn't hold water; you're clearly acting different today than you did yesterday. That said, please take note that unlike what you claimed in post 740, I didn't call the bandwagon on you senseless, I called the bandwagon you were pushing against Chip Butty senseless.

Are you sure that you've been even reading what I've told you in the private thread?

---

For bystanders who don't know what this is about: in post 740 Viomi pretended that I called the bandwagon against her senseless, which I definitely didn't say. I thought that she had misinterpreted my post 702, wherein I said that the bandwagon she's pushing is senseless, so I corrected her in the private thread. It appears however that she has somehow not read or forgotten that post, and is still ascribing her own interpretation to my words. At this point I'd say that she's moving from misinterpreting to misrepresenting.

So Viomi, how about you quote the part where I said that that argument is stupid? Because I'm sure you can't.

[Aster]

Though I guess Aster isn't completely useless if they'd give us some information..

Hey Aster, gimme your reads on every player in the game please. Particularly your town reads and reasons for them.

I don't like being ordered around by scum, but I may as well put a list out here. That said, my speciality is finding scum and not finding town. Most of my townreads are based on which players are most likely not part of the most likely scumteam.

By the way, Viomi, please make sure to tell me how retarded my reads are; the more retarded, the more likely they are to be correct ^^

Almost certainly scum:

Sheepsaysmeep & Viomi: for the reasons I've been stating this entire day and which I'm not going to compress to a single paragraph.

Somewhat suspicious:

Creature: his grand involvement in getting yesterday's lynch of CommKnight and todays attempts to hurry the lynch towards Northside without any explanation make me very suspicious of him. Which is quite confusing, because I want to give him big amounts of towncred for being used as a decoy by Viomi. I'm kind of on the fence about him.

Neutral:

CityElectric & momo: these are lurkers whose few posts are screaming neither town nor scum to me. On the one hand, Viomi's insistence upon lynching lurkers makes me wary of lynching lurkers. On the other hand, it is remarkable that Viomi has been very insistent on lynching LUV and texcat for lurking, but overlooking these two, which could suggest that she's overlooking one of them because they are actual scum.

Town lean:

KidAmn: the first few posts he made when he replaced in seemed very sensible to me, and sensible posts are a scarce commodity in this game. Lately his activity seems to have declined significantly. Nevertheless, he is one of the few players whose posts themselves do not reek of scum in some way.

Probably town:

Lil Uzi Vert, texcat, northside: with the effort that the Sheepy & Viomi scumteam is putting into lynching them, I'm calling these town based that. I their efforts focussing on them look too intense for it to be bussing.

[Aster]

For those not sheep and Viomi, what’s wrong with Aster’s case?

Seriously. This is what I'm wondering as well. We had a solid case against CommKnight (now Sheepy) yesterday. We've got another solid case for a Viomi & Sheepy conspiracy today. Sheepy at first tried to talk his way out of the case (1733) but only admitted to stuff that dug himself an even deeper hole. When he realised that he couldn't talk his way out of it, he resorted to just throwing around insults and AtE.

Viomi joins him and together they throw around statements along the lines of "you're dumb" "stop tunneling" "why isn't aster lynched yet" "lol so ur scumclaiming", but whenever asked, they never even bother to even pretend to try to refute the case, instead taking "did you even read it?" as solid evidence. Try it for yourself; read through their ISO's and try to find their latest post that is not one of (1) an insult, (2) an appeal to emotion, (3) a statement or request without any explanation. You'll have to read quite a while back.

Despite all of the above,

somehow

town is running after Northside, and the only argument we have against her is an unlikable hammer, and we can't even figure out whether that even correlates with being scum.

Yesterday, we ignored the solid case against CommKnight because we shouldn't lynch powerroles. Today, we have an even more solid case against him and his replacement, and it is somehow being ignored in favour of going after somebody even higher on the draft list with barely no evidence flat. I am here like "Are you kidding me?"

---

Now let me call out somebody in particular.

KidAmn

, you've made only two posts today; the first one being a vote on Northside with no argument, and the second one being a post stating that you don't feel like playing this game.

How about you explain why

you

are voting Northside? Because right now all it takes for Northside to get lynched is having the scumteam Sheepy & Viomi move their votes to her; your vote is a very real mislynch hazard. Can you either explain why you think it is acceptable to end today with lynching Northside, or move your vote (at least temporarily) off her?

[Aster]

all it takes for Northside to get lynched is having the scumteam Sheepy & Viomi move their votes to her

Then why they constantly refuse to even consider moving their votes to her?

Probably because today isn't the dreaded MyLo it could be, and they don't want to be switching their votes too suddenly to northside and end up eating the blame when she flips town?

Yesterday too Viomi stated that she would hammer Chippy if he were to reach L-1, but somehow she didn't actually vote him before he actually reached that L-1 (or at all, in the end.)

[Aster]

@Aster: why are you lying about there being a solid case on CK yesterday? The"case" boiled down to "oh he feels scummy"

Will you stop being a hypocritical misrepresenting liar already?

I have written out a detailed case against CommKnight in post 958 and been expanding that case for a few more. And what are you doing? Have

you

ever written out a case against texcat? The only thing

you

are ever saying against anyone but Lalendra is some variant of "you're scummy/dumb/lurky".

The post I'm quoting should apply to YOU instead.

[Aster]

also aster
that case was refuted in the next post

Let me get this straight. You call the following a refutation?

TL;DR: Reads change. Aster is the fluffiest poster here all concluding in diddily squat.

[Aster]

I'm in a state of confusion right now. Scumking Sheepy appears to be VI. That sinks the entire Sheepy/Viomi conspiracy and returns Viomi to being a nulltell. That also gets rid of almost my entire last read list which was based on those two being a scumteam. Pretty much everyone is back to nulltell in my mind until I can finally sort stuff out.

---

But anyway, let me point out something somehow nobody has remarked yet: northsidegal was a mafia

goon

. No special role whatsoever. This means that the slot she tried to get was already taken. The only player above her is texcat. Ergo, the mafia knew that texcat had the slot that northside failed to get. Texcat is the cop, so northside tried for the cop/1-shot-redirector slot, and knows that texcat got that slot instead. Since no sane townie would choose the 1-shot-redirector over the cop, the mafia have known this entire game that texcat was our cop. And he's still alive?

Three consecutive nights the mafia have let the cop live.

I don't think it is because texcat is a bussing scum cop either: if both northside and texcat were scum, then at least northside would've tried for a different slot. But then, why?

---

That aside, can somebody actually explain why we're all jumping on LUV? Aside from "it's this town's tradition to rush somebody to L-1 as soon as possible" of course. Nobody but Viomi has posted a case against him. Especially texcat's unexplained vote seems curious. I'd take it as a "cop knows stuff" vote, but texcat herself says that she hasn't investigated LUV. Texcat, can you explain?

[Aster]

Just a recap for those who don't quite get the situation (which is apparently nonzero, unfortunately)

• There are 6 players alive, two of which are conf!town and two of which are scum.
  
• There must be two scum among the following four players: Aster, HavingFitz, Momo, Viomi.
  
• We're at MyLo, though we might survive with a lucky jailkeeper. You really shouldn't count on it though. If Viomi is scum, we can't even be sure this jailkeeper actually exists.

From my perspective, there are only three not-conf!town players left: fitz, momo and viomi. Since two of them are scum, at this point wondering which one of them is not scum may actually become viable. I should write out my thoughts of each of them.

HavingFitz

Replacement of CityElectric, a lurker. This town has been quite happy to lynch lurkers, but somehow City never came under significant suspicion because of it. Quite remarkable for Viomi: she's been desperately trying to get texcat and LUV lynched based on only lurking, but she hasn't touched CityElectric, which is quite remarkable.

HavingFitz himself is lurking less, but somehow I get the feeling that his posts lack "scumhunting"? Not sure how to call it, but I get the feeling he never actually went after anyone with conviction. He just said stuff about players and then joined a popular bandwagon.

Momo

This "thing" (the most polite word I can call him) is either a scumbag or a gamethrower. That hammer yesterday was ridiculous. It seems like the best thing scum could've possibly wished for: this town has a tedency to get players up to L-1 rapidly and then not lynch them, and may actually have backed down if the actual intent protocol was properly followed.

Stunts like this have cost northside her life, so I'd almost think scum would know better by now. However, if momo thought he could get away with it, then his sudden hammer would've been a golden move for scum. And indeed, the stress of MyLo is very well used to distract from his act. I am also very suspicious about how only yesterday he started acting like an idiot: during D3 he seemed just inactive, the sheer VI act only started D4. This suggests me that he knows better than he acts.

Viomi

The most complex one.

The queen of lynch-the-inactives, somehow never went against CityElectric. I am quite a bit confused about her position on northside: based on what she told me in the neighbourhood and early D3, I thought she'd be anti-northside from which I deduced that (Viomi scum => Northside town.) However, after throwing some early dirt to northside, she quickly turned around and actually opposed lynching northside. Maybe she just wanted to get a bit of bussing in against northside and didn't want to actually lynch her?

Her claims of having failed to neighbourise anyone for the past three days are remarkable. If I weren't in a neighbourhood with her, I'd start wondering whether she's really the neighbouriser. But here's a thing: according to the wiki about this game, scum can't utilise their powerrole when they're sending out a factional nightkill. What if the reason that she hasn't managed to neighbourise is not because she failed, but because she didn't try as she was busy executing the factional nightkill instead while her partner was not viable?

Northside's flip proves that scum knew from D1 that texcat is scum, but never actually tried to NK him. Viomi has since early been trying hard to make texcat look like scum. Weirdly texcat hasn't been her top lynch priority until D3 (though she did try to gather my support against him D2), but maybe her fervour of going after texcat was actually related to her knowing that texcat was the cop? They were too afraid of the doctor/watcher/jailkeeper to just flat-out NK her and wanted to lynch her?

---

To conclude: I do think that momo is very scummy by himself without any complot theory, but there is also a strong potential for a (Viomi, Fitz) collaboration as well. If momo is scum and that collaboration does not exist, then Fitz becomes remarkably nondescript except for the usual lurker accusations. If Fitz is not scum, there are quite a few odd things about the way Viomi has acted, but none of them are really incriminating.

If I had to make a guess for the scumteam right now, I'd go for (Momo, Viomi), but the scumpair could really be any two of those three >_>

I will withold my vote for now. It takes only two wrong townvotes for scum to be able to force a lynch through, so I think we should be a bit careful.

[Aster]

His entire case on me was based on that he thought sheep scumslipped and said something he could only know if we had been sharing information through a scum-PT.

Then you must've not read my last post, since I'm fairly sure it doesn't even contain Sheepy's name. The Sheepy/Viomi conspiracy may be dead, but that doesn't clear you from any other shenanigans revolving around you. And there are lots of shenanigans revolving around you.

HTF does that even make sense? That's saying either you were jailkept (why??) or Kid was. Not sure why a jk would jk you but Kid is a possibility. But jk'ing Kid...especially N3 makes no sense. JK you would a little.

Doesn't Viomi actually make the much stronger claim that Viomi herself has been jailkept twice in a row? I'd think that the jailkeeper protection only keeps you from getting killed, not from any other kind of night action.

@Mod:

if KidAmn were to be jailkept, would that block attempts to neighbourise him?

[Aster]

At this point Viomi's level of misrepresentation is just sickening. I'm not even sure how to deal with it anymore, so I'll just quote every post on the last page and rip apart the lies.

I wasn't trying to get CK lynched thank you very much, I worked pretty hard on pointing out that the case was just Aster's dumb tunnel shit.

Quote where you did that. I've been reading through your ISO to make sure, and the only single thing I can find regarding this is post 1189, where you just jumped onto Lalendra after the CK wagon wouldn't gain momentum. You've only ever been trying to push Lalendra (possibly Chip) without caring to argue against the CK wagon or pointing out why it's dumb shit, either in the main thread or in the neighbourhood. In fact, I can find quite some posts stating that you did think CK was scum: 956, 1041, 1129, 1185 and quoteworthily

In other news, Aster seems to continue to be the only sane person in this game, so I'm going to happily stay on CK as well. And mutantdevle has lost my townread, he seems way too motivated for reasons I can't understand from a town perspective.

CK is still a scummy fuck who's contributing nothing but flailing side-wagons to attempt to survive. I'm actually attempting to help us hunt fuckers like him and you down. Biiiig difference.

You never cared about CK living, you just wanted to jump to another wagon. Don't pretend you ever actually defended him.

---

Soooo ISOing Aster has revealed that their entire game has consisted of really dumb math-based wagons on people who have all flipped green

First, that statement is blatantly false.

I have never wagoned players based on statistics.

I have been posting statistics and correcting incorrect ones, but I never wagoned somebody because they were statistically likely to be scum.

Also, just replace the word "math-based" with "lurking-based" and the quote does quite accurately represent you. Maybe you should lynch yourself.

---

At this point the amount of misrepping she's doing is just not normal anymore. The above are just the two most recent representations she did on the current page, but she's been doing it through the entire game—some of which I've pointed out already, some of which I've let slide because she's producing misrepresentations at a faster rate than I can correct them.

She is just saying whatever she wants to make herself look better. She has no internal consistency and treats facts as opinions. Her willingness to just make up any statement to prove her point makes one thing clear to me: I'm not sure who her scumpartner is, but Viomi is part of the scumteam.

VOTE: Viomi

[Aster]

Like, Aster lying about CommKnight's wagon having "not gained momentum" even though he was two votes away from being lynched at that point is kind of ridiculous for town to do, don't you think?

No it bloody isn't. It was miles away from reaching lynch since everyone who whas not on the bandwagon already wasn't ever going to come on it. I even said myself that very day:

It looks like we won't be getting CommKnight lynched today.

---

Because somehow lynching lurkers is comparable to lynching people based on some bs maths :giggle:

(1) Yes, (2)

I NEVER LYNCHED ANYONE BASED ON SOME BS MATHS

You tell me where I did if you want to keep up this lie.

---

Your quoteful post is so unwieldy that I can't quote it, but you're misrepresenting again. You said, on this very page,

I worked pretty hard on pointing out that the case was just Aster's dumb tunnel shit.

Just

where

did you point out that my case was dumb shit? I can't find a single thing about that in all the trash you've quoted. Indeed, all those posts you quoted and exactly zero of it is relevant to the claim you're supposedly defending. Are you assuming that people are just not reading your posts and thereby missing that you're essentially spouting random words?

[Aster]

I mean

You're the one who made that case on CK, how can you not remember?

Indeed. The backbone posts of my accussation, 780, 958, 988, 1006, 1026, 1046, rely on virtually no math?

Or are you perchance referring to side post 894? In that post I definitely wasn't accusing him because my math said so, but because he was intentionally posting bad math to deceive town and using it to justify his own agenda of lynching below Misa. I accused him for intentionally deceiving town, which are quite sane grounds for an accusation I believe. Nowhere did I do my own math to decide that lynching him (or anyone else) would be a statistically good move or anything remotely close to that; pretending that this is a lynch based on math is a gross misrepresentation.

In fact, if you think that accusing others of using bad math constitutes lynching based on math, then you should vote yourself, since accusing me of using bad math is exactly what you're doing right now.

[Aster]

It seems that Viomi has simply stopped responding to all claims of her misrepresenting things. I take this as a confession that she's been misrepresenting and is hoping to flood away the evidence against her by filling up pages upon pages of contentless posts.

---

Isn't the momo/Viomi affair cute? Viomi carelessly puts a vote on momo

I'm just going to sheep the conftowns and hope momo isn't VI

VOTE: momo

and then subsequently retracts it despite absolutely nothing having changed about momo's scumminess:

UNVOTE:

Are they close enough for a quickhammer?

Today is MyLo and two townie misvotes is all it takes for scum to force a quickhammer. It has been explicitly stated in this thread already and it's absurd to think that Viomi was not aware of it.

Nevertheless, she carelessly votes momo even though (1) she clearly didn't think momo was scummy enough to warrant a lynch, and (2) she somehow didn't register the potential quickhammer risk of the second misvote.

These points are very interesting. Point (2) proves that either she is paying absolutely no attention to the current situation and the things that are being said, or she's pretending to. Alternatively, if she did pay an ounce of attention, her mind might not have registered the quickhammer potential because she (and probably momo) are scum, meaning that there was no scumteam that could quickhammer this.

If she was a townie, point (1), voting somebody she is not prepared to lynch, would constitute gross negligence at best and gamethrowing at worst. It's momo-level stupid.

Remember when Viomi posted the private neighbourhood (2016)? Read through it. She claims that she has been intentionally acting like an idiot in the main thread, but that she's not half as stupid as she's pretending to.

:D Essentially, to explain myself better: I am purposefully looking somewhat scummy until I get more solid information and see more interactions occur. In the past I have had a tendency to either be blatantly PR and get NK'd, or so loud that people think I'm distracting and scum manages to mislynch me D1 or D2. So as long as I can maintain a healthy amount of people scumreading me, at least in the thread.. theoretically I can convince scum that I'll be an easy future Lynch while setting up a secret town block :D

This raises the question: is Viomi really so stupid that she as a townie would manage to miss the sheer quickhammer potential of two townie votes, or is she merely pretending to be that stupid? If one were to only read her posts in the main thread, it may seem that she's a complete idiot, but she isn't half as stupid as she's been pretending to.

This also answers the question of how Viomi has managed several times to state something blatantly wrong that directly contradicts with already mod-confirmed information (85, 145, 2089, I think I'm missing some). She was trying to keep up the pretense of her being an idiot so she could get away with her ridiculous actions, such as blatantly misrepresenting everyone even though counterevidence can be trivially looked up.

She claimed in the neighbourhood that she's purposefully trying to act scummy "to avoid NK attention", but of course that excuse doesn't apply today. Aside from the mafia NK not being after anyone but the jailkeeper/non-conf-town, genuinely putting the town at instant-loss risk is downright unacceptable. This wasn't motivated by laying low, this was motivated by sheer scumminess.

Tl;dr:

Viomi is trying to drown this thread in a flood of misinformation under the pretense of being an idiot, but actually is more sane than she pretends to be. Her acting stupid can only be motivated by her being scum.

[Aster]

I'm sorry, what? Did you miss the part where sheep told me to unvote so they don't get quickhammered? It was literally the only thing between the two posts of mine you linked.

Yet another misrepresentation from Viomi. How very not surprising. I do however admire your chutzpah to call others misrepresenting while you're misrepresenting them.

I stated

and then subsequently retracts it despite absolutely nothing having changed about momo's scumminess:

How does quickhammer potential change a single thing about momo's scumminess?

The point is that you voted somebody you were not prepared to lynch. If you truly thought momo was scummy to the extend you should vote for him, you wouldn't worry about that quickhammer potential because mafia wouldn't quickhammer one of their own members.

The fact that you backtracked as soon as Sheepy reminded you of the quickhammer potential (and I had already warned about it before you voted) proves that you were either just voting momo for show, or gamethrowingly careless about your vote.

[Aster]

Also, Viomi calling me VI after spending the entire game tunneling town with shit cases

[Aster]

Remember that time Aster made a case on me because I was using ad hominems

No, I don't remember. Mind refreshing my memory?

[Aster]

Remember that time Aster made a case on me because I was using ad hominems

No, I don't remember. Mind refreshing my memory?

Nah your iso causes me physical pain

I can't do math when I'm this tired

Surely you mean "No I won't find it because it never happened and I just made that claim up in the moment while I was grasping at straws"? (And what does math have to do with anything anyway?)

You are misrepresenting others, and when called out on it, your response is to make up yet another false claim to distract from the situation. To everyone else: Viomi doesn't (or pretends not to) actually have any clue about what happened in this game and habitually makes up any desirable statement on the spot. I advise against believing anything she says unless she can prove her claim by means of quote.

Why isn't this bag of scummeat not lynched already?

@Mod:

your votecount is wrong. My vote is on Viomi, momo has two votes, and Aster, Sheepy & Fitz do not belong on the "not voting" list.

[Aster]

I literally don't trust any of you and have no idea what I'm doing

TBH I don't care any more, playing Mafia here is shit nowadays

Then how about you get back to the game or (not preferably) replace out? With four votes required to lynch, we need every single townie to agree in order to be able to lynch scum. We can't afford having one of the conf!townies missing from the game.

[Aster]

I'd prefer to lynch Viomi, but momo if her most likely scumpartner, so...

VOTE: momo

[Aster]

I'd like to congratulate Creature for being the single biggest problematic townie for the mafia; you were the only NK target who was chosen based on problematic statements moreso than rolehunting/strategic decisions.

I'd like to thank KidAmn, mutantdevle and Lil Uzi Vert for being remarkably sane townies amongst this mess.

I'd like to thank northsidegal for being a valuable scumpartner. I'd also like to thank havingfitz and CityElectric for not screwing anything up.

From my position as mafia, I'd like to thank mutantdevle and CommKnight for giving away their roles through softing, and thank momo for gamethrowing.

@Mod:

Can we get an overview of all night actions? I'm really curious who the jailkeeper targeted last night.

[Aster]

Lmao Aster and I chatted all night in our PT and he was STILL pretending to be scum. FML.

I'm very sure that I was pretending to be town. We're post-game already; will your misrepresentations never stop? >_>

Also: I told you so

Lolwut? You voted momo (who I'm quite certain flipped town) and thereby cost town the game.

[Aster]

i breadcrumbed in my first post and i was confirmable

?

By N4 (i.e. way too late) I figured out that you were the UB/Jailkeeper based on CommKnight's statements, but I can't find any breadcrumbing in your first post. Could you please point it out?

[Aster]

Texcat Investigates Havingfitz (Fails Due To Death)

Surprised by this one. Here I was thinking that texcat was going to investigate momo.

---

Also, Sheepy has just been targeting Viomi ad infinum for no reason? Last night's battle of wits to figure out who we should send for the nightkill suddenly feels far less epic than it should've been...

Fitz, may I confbias that targeting Viomi was a bad idea? May I? <3

[Aster]

Oh yeah, and I probably shouldn't blatantly discount that the universal backup is a role.

Definitely. The universal backups was among the biggest concerns of the mafia. We already knew the doctor and the cop by N1, but we let both of them live. Why? If we were to kill either of them, their role would most likely be taken over by the universal backup (who has a really high probability of existing) and then by D2 we'd still have a doctor/cop, but this time without knowing who they are.

As long as the UB was unsaturated, going after powerroles was meaningless. This shoved our powerrole hunting back by a whole day and caused real problems in getting rid of texcat.

I reinforced the idea Comm was an investigative even after he said this to hopefully trick the scum :3

An amazing move ^^ *applause*

Scum was aware that there was a really high probability of the #1 player being targeted during N2. We've got a lot of statistics in the scumthread ^^

The #1 player was a NK target in 4 out of the 6 games which reached N2 and didn't have scum in the #1 spot.

Of course you'd be aware of this which, made us hesitant going after texcat N2, because you'd definitely protect her if you weren't preoccupied with protecting the claimed cop CommKnight. We decided to try anyway because (1) we hoped that you'd be preoccupied with protecting CommKnight whom you believed to be the cop, and (2) texcat would be difficult to dispose of before N4 anyhow and she had a high risk of finding scum tonight.

If it wasn't for us thinking you could be preoccupied protecting CommKnight, we wouldn't have bothered going after texcat. (In hindsight, I think going after texcat was a stupid idea to begin with, but oh well.)

So, well done!

Also pretty sure Aster is scum. They seemed a little frustrated that my play day 1 wasn't getting me votes day 2.

I was frustrated? ._.

I actually wanted to keep you alive until we saturated the universal backup. Which is also why I jumped off your wagon later in D1 — scum was trying to try to lynch you until we realised that we had completely overlooked the universal backup threat, after which we switched to "there is no need to lynch mutant, but no need to particularly disrupt the already existing bandwagon either."

[Aster]

i enjoyed playing with you, mutant – hope to see you around some time.

I agree with this. For playerbase purposes, I actually wanted to keep you alive because you were so engaged in this game, but I kinda couldn't justify letting the doctor live just to be nice.

[Aster]

Night 4:
Viomi Targets Kidamn

Hold on. Viomi is

town

and she

lied

about targeting texcat on N4?

...

[Aster]

You may.

Yay! ^^

first letters or smth
uni back i think it spelled?

I see now. Thanks.

like scum obviously want rolecop

I have to disagree with this one. I'd much rather have the [Cop/1-shot-redirector] as scum. The cop singlehandedly killed one of our scumbros, ruined perfectly good lynchbait, kept us from disposing of the jailkeeper, and caused a really troublesome D5; if we hadn't won by N5, town would have had a surewin strategy. The cop is about three times as powerful as any other role in this game.

I personally think that I overlooked many powerful roles during the draft. If we had the jailkeeper, texcat would've never been a threat to us. If we had the universal backup/rolecop, then we could've started killing the powerroles way earlier. If we had the N3Vig in addition to the 1ShotVig, we could've caused MyLo by day 3. If we had succeeded in getting the roleblocker (/doctor), we could've neutralised texcat N1 and killed him N2. If we had the rolecop (/UB), then we could've killed off the powerroles way earlier.

Many roles are good ones. The rolecop is a good one (mostly by destroying the UB), but I wouldn't call it nearly a top priority.

[Aster]

One thing, northside, I think you should try to have a bit more confidence; or at least pretend to. Sudden hammer aside, it looks like you've caught significantly more flak for being surprisingly silent compared to your town games than for anything you actually said.

I tend to think of myself as "the impertinent townie who doesn't know when to shup up" and just say whatever I want to, while paying little attention to how scummy it would make me look. I'm not sure whether it's the best strategy here, as fitz and city seem to have caught less suspicion than me, but I don't think it's necessary to scrunitise every single line you make.

I'd say: assume it is passable as town unless you have cause to believe it makes you look scum, not the other way around.

[Aster]

>when Aster didn't pay attention to the entirety of the last day and still wins because town sucked that bad

> Votes momo;
> Whines about stupid town letting scum win.

I don't play with people who don't play to win, that's kinda what the game is balanced around.

> Is sure Aster and Fitz are scum;
> Votes momo;
> Whines about others not playing to win.

And nobody else seemed to think it was unreadable, soooo

ofc not who reads your posts

[Aster]

P sure sheep was just trolling Viomi based on her "READ MY POSTS" freakouts, sig, location, etc.

Let's not forget that she spent half of D2 whining about how nobody was reading her posts, somehow not realising that it means the problem lies with her instead of everyone else. I thought "ofc not who reads your posts" was quite a good summary of D2.

[Aster]

@Aster: I literally explained in the above post that my vote on momo was literally because conftowns were screwing the game and I wasn't going to be able to get them to actually vote scum.

So, you thought conftowns were screwing town and decided to gamethrow instead of trying to convince them/explaining the point you were trying to make/let a nolynch happen instead of a mislynch and trying again tomorrow/fixing your own immeasurable scumminess? There was plenty of time left in the day. I'm sure there should've been another way out than gamethrowing because you didn't like your townies.

Now that we've established you're a gamethrower, could you be a little bit less hypocritical and stop accusing everyone else of throwing the game while pretending you're a sacred untouchable figure yourself?

(Answer: of course you can't, because hypocrisy is a fundamental building block of your existence. From this point on I'm going to follow Lalendra's advice and stop bothering to reply.)

[Aster]

Elmo's link is broken. Here's the correct one: Neighbourhood