Mini Normal 1983: Winter Wonderland [Endgame!]

[Flubbernugget]

VOTE: ucv

Blatant posturing with the rvs thing.

Not mafia is my second candidate for scum. They were a lot more careless as town in the last games I've played with them compared to now.

[Flubbernugget]

is it still posturing if he genuinely believes in it though?

Nobody cares about uvc posturing about their beliefs

Posturing about their alignment on the other hand...

[Flubbernugget]

Sheep's vote on me for a "bad entrance" after calling the votes on my wagon opportunistic is hypocritical and incredibly careless, at the very least.

Last time I played with Sephiroph, they were scum. I recall them having a better entrance there than they do here.

---

Pedit:

I am saying UCV is posturing by acting in a way that on the surface, looks like they are town, but has a true intent of deceiving others wrt to their alignment. Does that clarify?

[Flubbernugget]

Uhhh, you can't scumhunt without expressing an opinion. If you could, there would be an objective way to find scum.

There's two issues with UCV's belief. 1) It's obvious enough that it can typically go without saying (and this

may

lead to sheep being scum too, but I am not a fan of pre flip associatives), and 2) they offered nothing after their gripe with rvs to, yakno, actually end rvs. This makes it more likely that they are faking their intent to end rvs early.

[Flubbernugget]

That's not what I mean - UCV genuinely believes towns should force their way out of RVS as soon as possible rather than let it move naturally. When I say personal opinion I'm referring to non-game related matters - which is why I don't think your point 1 is scummy for UCV, it's just a UCV tell.

Point 2, which in a vacuum I'd agree actually makes UCV scummy here, is mostly why I wanted to ask about his vote because it genuinely seems possible that he thought that he was voting for someone scummy and want that thought process clarified.

Have you played with UCV before in a game you're allowed to talk about?

I have! The tryharding is old news.

I've never seen a distinction between a "natural" and "unnatural" attempt to end rvs. Seems like an unnecessary splitting of hairs, but I'm not sure what motivations to attribute to it.

[Flubbernugget]

I agree with sheep here, why does Internecine care? Sheep did say he's down to lynch either. Perhaps Flub is scum and Seph isn't and thats why Internecine voted Seph and is asking sheep why he's voting flub instead of seph?

Already went over it, its better to consolidate on one wagon instead of splitting it between the two of them.

Like this

VOTE: Flubber

You do know what a wagon with no counterwagon tends to point to...rignt?

On another note, I see serg is going to be a tough read again. Last time I played with him, I considered his arguments to be too...brazen to discern alignment from. I tried reading him for his voting patterns, but ended up scum reading him as a PR.

[Flubbernugget]

Flubber’s entrance is basically the same as a previous game I’ve played with him where he was town.

Bujaber’s Moz vote in 139 isn’t very good. Reads as (wanting to sound) annoyed, yet doesn’t quite fit. Moz isn’t the only one guilty of what Bu is complaining about, it’s explicitly not a serious vote Bu is making, and Moz didn’t say ‘confirmed’ town, so Bu is changing his words to make the read.
That wouldn’t make me dislike Bu alone. I dislike Bu because he then goes on to express a scumread on either Flubber or Seph. Firstly, he doesn’t comment on why, which doesn’t fit with his earlier complains about people lacking content/good reasoning. Secondly, those are popular wagons. Ignoring them in favour of the Moz vote looks like intentionally trying to avoid getting involved in the main ongoing discussions. Sitting at the sidelines.

Moz has the lowest content to spam ratio in the game atm, so the vote makes sense in that regard. Your second point is a good one, though.

[Flubbernugget]

Flubb, can you tell us who you think is scum in your wagon? you seem to think that it's scum driven

I still think nm is scum for starters.

Outside of that, I suspect at this point in the game, scum is more likely to be on the tail end of the wagon than the beginning. I will look through isos and analyze when I have more time.

[Flubbernugget]

Okay caught up.

Spoiler: Scum on my wagon

Looking strictly at the iso's on my wagon, I would suspect intern and hum. My Not Mafia read was stale, and like Kat pointed out, their tone started to step on more toes as his play progressed. Intern had a poor reason to vote on my wagon (which my counterwagon question tried to show. Unfortunately it was spun into some vca anecdote...thing).

That being said, with the speed of the game, this is already dated.

(hum is a big current scum read of mine atm, hence the read not being explained here)

So I have two pretty substaintal scum reads now.

HUM:

HUM has now tried to push two quicklynches, one with no claim. I've been trying to respect that I'm getting to the point on this site where the scumtells I am used to are stagnating with time, but this is seriously inexcusable, and its honestly pretty frustrating complacent town seems to be to his actions.

And if you believe HUM that advocating lynches like this is garnering good information from reactions, please ask yourself why HUM has provided ZERO analysis on how people reacted to his requests. And no, saying "hop ruined the flub reactions" isn't an excuse.

VOTE: humaneatingmonkey

This is a policy lynch at worst.

Bu:

Bu's voting is bad, and he hasn't commited to a single read past his unvote. It looks like moz isn't going to be active enough for bu to coast off a vanity wagon, and his inability to use his vote otherwise suggests his scum strategy was thrown off, and he doesn't know how to recoup.

--------

I might entertain hopkirk for a third scum, but I'm not seeing any motivatons behind his tangential reasoning.

[Flubbernugget]

Comment on my scum reads assholes

[Flubbernugget]

If he's not calling on the nm quick lynch for reactions, you need to make a case that the day is ready to end.

I'm not fond of pre flipped associatives, but I got one of my scummates to endgame before by harping them on an awkward bus until I got lynched. There's also the possibility that hop is town just having a bad game.

[Flubbernugget]

I'd like to hear more about why I'm scum

VOTE: Flubb

That's L-1 again

Pathetic

Your inability to actually address my case while wasting a page playing he-said-she-said with hopkirk is telling.

[Flubbernugget]

Confidently stating "Flubb is town" and then giving a reason that definitely should not come attached with that confidence is definitely a white knight - a bad defense on a slot while it's being pushed that does little to actually dismantle the wagon.

It's so strange that you can town read NM for tone and then say something like this

[Flubbernugget]

Your proving my point that you can't back out of getting caught.

And vote park? LMAO my vote's maybe 48h old

[Flubbernugget]

It's so strange that you can town read NM for tone and then say something like this

???????????????????

I did address your reasoning on n_m (I absolutely have seen him make sense in town games before) and pointed out good points on why he seemed town at the time besides tone.

Do you think I white knighted not_mafia in a scummy way? Otherwise, why call this out?

pedit: I think he was saying there's one scum in the lurkers/inactives which I think is a reasonable read of the gamestate

Perhaps I misunderstood your point?

I was under the impression that you were scum reading hopkirk for committing too hard to a town read on me. I don't think someone that tone reads would come to this conclusion based on his posting.

[Flubbernugget]

sheep, you're saying a lot of things but I don't see any good conclusions coming out of them.

Who is scum?

[Flubbernugget]

Kat, my current understanding of your hopkirk scumread is a whiteknight of me and his egregious misunderstandings. I think both points are kinda blah.

[Flubbernugget]

...

ucv isn't a good read at all
bu, I see you criticizing his posts, but don't really see how scum falls out of that
I can't really see in your iso how you transitioned from town reading hop to having them in a scum list

your scum read on me at least seems to be consistent. What do you think of my case on HUM?

[Flubbernugget]

Kat,

Your case doesn't go into much detail about the more recent interactions with Hopkirk and HEM. Dismissing it all as "happy to discard [the townread] once pressure came towards HEM's way" seems really confbias-y.

[Flubbernugget]

Hopkirk, it sounds a lot like you're measuring whether or not to continue this push based on how much people agree with you.

beats flat out ignoring it

[Flubbernugget]

It's Flubb and Hopkirk, but Hopkirk-Buj does not make sense. So it could be sheep, as the third partner. Quote this in end game.

Two of your scum reads are based on you saying players wrong, which doesn't imply scum (but is very conveniently, a way to buff your post count).

You literally just pulled that sheep read out of your ass, and your last mention of them was being the second most town in the game.

On top of the fact that you've made shit "gambits" and mined exactly zero information from them, have nothing to say about this being called out, and are still a policy lynch at worst because of it.

[Flubbernugget]

There's literally two non-entities on my wagon of three.

You're confused on the case on me, because it's devolved into HUM just saying I'm bad

[Flubbernugget]

Seph, talk to me about HUM going from sheep being high town to part of the scum team(???)

[Flubbernugget]

HUM, you do not mention sheep

at fucking all

from [p]457[/p] till your "scumteam." Fuck off with your nonsense.

Or better yet, keep digging a shallow grave! You don't get to say sheep is being suspicious and then put him at the top of your town list

[Flubbernugget]

457

[Flubbernugget]

Sorry 454

[Flubbernugget]

i also dont like how you're defending hopkirk

i think the perspective is coming from someone who isn't town. just because it's not written in the wiki, doesn't mean it's not valid.

also i think your defense is not coming from someone who is town. even if hopkirk is town here.

tune down your aggressiveness because it's kind of obvious that you're faking it

So how did you change from sheep scum to sheep town?

[Flubbernugget]

Also that "synthetic" buzzword is bunk

[Flubbernugget]

You've got enough evidence here to vote my friend

[Flubbernugget]

That's a bunch of weak loaded language that I expect to evolve into empty promisies.

470 and 473 is what trying to actually sort a "squirmy" player looks like.

[Flubbernugget]

Retorting your sarcasm with snark isn't fake aggression.

Maybe you should have called it "synthetic" instead???

And you should work harder on having your pants around your ankles with your sheep read before you call my progressions off the wall

[Flubbernugget]

go on

[Flubbernugget]

it's okay not everybody can be good at this

You just made an unsubstantiated claim in 535 and can't back it up.

You are now using insults to try and backtrack.

[Flubbernugget]

Seph might be hesitant on getting his buddy lynched but since his hesitance is in stone we can push that after a HUM flip.

[Flubbernugget]

it's okay not everybody can be good at this

You just made an unsubstantiated claim in 535 and can't back it up.

You are now using insults to try and backtrack.

huh. what unsubstantiated claim?

The one I cited, directly in the post you quoted, that is also on this page.

[Flubbernugget]

Kat

The problem with that is that I'm more convinced on hop's portrayal than hum.

Though tbf, that's more along the lines of HUM being scum than me checking the citations

[Flubbernugget]

You did push a quick lynch. It's not a reaction test because you didn't, yakno, say anything about the reactions. That has been a point of my case since I voted for you.

It's accepted now that being loud about who you want lynched is how you get people lynched. It's been like that for a while, and I can cite examples of town doing it from at least two years back. In the presence of faster posting, this idea is then exasperated. I still have other reads amongst this. The only reason I'm most active with you is because you have something to say after every point I make. Scum flailing is a real tell, but I'm not going to use "flail" and expect other people to see it. I'm going to be precise and unambiguous. You've seen in this game at least three confusions in this game because someone pointing to tone with no further detail.

The only other thing you have left at that point to show as "aggression" is again, me matching your caustic tone. That's bunk.

You also have very little to say about me catching going your bad read trajectory. And sorry, saying "I reevaluated" In hindsight doesn't hold water. Can you explain to me how scum can't make a post like that?

And I can absolutely promise you that if you actually tried to point at my inconsistencies in what I'm pushing you'd end up being caught with your pants around your ankles, again, trying to split hairs.

[Flubbernugget]

Kat,

Let's argue from the premise that hum was attempting genuine reaction tests.

Why can HUM then not point to a single thing about how they forwarded town? Why do you have to do that for him?

What does this say about him not willing to interact with me like he did with hop until there's evidence that people are starting to see what I'm catching on to? What does this say about the fact that it looks like he's faking reads? What does it say about him trying to get pressure off himself by calling my aggression uneccesary?

[Flubbernugget]

flubb you dont have inconsistencies because you are consistently bad at your push

Cool,

Why am I in your scum team then?

[Flubbernugget]

Kat,

You keep doing this thing where you wallpost your reads but still don't comment on the aggregate of their play.

[Flubbernugget]

See, that's the problem. Bad push doesn't imply scum.

And you like, literally just said this.

You keep talking yourself into circles and then complain about me being aggressive when I call it out.

[Flubbernugget]

Really? It progressed from what was mostly a theory post into:

-> an issue with you dismissing me until I got loud
-> an issue with a bad read
-> an issue with you back pedaling to my initial point, ignoring what came out of it
-> an issue with a second bad read

None of those four require the quicklynch argument for you to be scum.

[Flubbernugget]

I had one post that didn't address you after you told everyone to ignore me. In my next post, I said something. So that's a lie.

Trajectory is a well established scum tell. It's not glass. Saying it's not a valid scum tell and then saying "oh well here's what REALLY happened" is, in fact, backpeadling.

[Flubbernugget]

Kat,

I don't understand how you can look at someone that goes from casting suspicion on someone to putting them at the top of their scum list to down into the scum pool as not faking their read. I don't understand how you can see someone say a player in their scum pool is making a consistent push and not think that's a fake read.

[Flubbernugget]

And honestly, thinking that HUM's trajectory on his sheep read is willful ignorance is best.

[Flubbernugget]

And honestly, thinking that HUM's trajectory on his sheep read is okay is willful ignorance is best.

Fixed, sorry.

[Flubbernugget]

wait i saw the word hydra
can someone hydra with me after this game

I'm down

[Flubbernugget]

Consistency is not inherently townie, but trying to say is scum is flat out wrong. It speaks nothing of motivations.

Also saying it makes more sense to put town in a POE list than a null is probably the strangest thing I've heard, like, ever.

[Flubbernugget]

How would monkey know which of the contentless slots to put in? They're basically all identical

at least with sheep he has previous suspicion that makes sense in that team dynamic.

Well you then have to argue why putting someone at the top of his reads list that he was suspicious of makes sense.

Ans typically people will say something along the lines of "and one of the lurkers".

Like, if lurkers never made it into scum lists, the optimal strategy for scum would have to be staying as inactive as possible.

[Flubbernugget]

I mean I concede that that's what most people (including myself) would do, but the point is I see where monkey is coming from and it makes sense. It might not be intuitive for everyone but saying it's a scummy trajectory and that it doesn't make sense is wrong when you take into account that he's had doubts about Sheep's alignment.

That does remind me that if Serg is going to keep doing nothing game advancing I wouldn't mind offing his slot at this point.

How does 605 account for having a suspicious player at the top of your reads list

[Flubbernugget]

Lol at the quote

[Flubbernugget]

All HEM had to do was say his list was unordered. . He didn't. He backpedaled instead.

[Flubbernugget]

You first

[Flubbernugget]

I love that I can even enumerate points in slideshow-esqe bullets and still get told I'm treating a single one of them like a smoking gun

[Flubbernugget]

VOTE: bu

[Flubbernugget]

Re: 643

The catch up starts with a case implying monkey to be scum from meta and then does a complete 180 onto a new read (me). The rationale says nothing of his actual arguments against me, but instead that he likes that monkey was talking to several people at the same time. That's an unfair argument considering I had interactions with everyone around while I was posting. Considering there's two votes on me from players that are completely inactive, this reads real hard like knowing who the easier lynch would be, and filling in the post around that.

Your point on me for ignoring you makes no sense either. I spent about four hours making real time interactions with the players around then, and you weren't one of them. You said nothing about why I thought you were scum, nor did anyone else. On top of that, how does ignoring you make any sense as me being scum unless you're scum with me? You're a scum read of mine, so distancing from a mislynch wouldn't make much sense. Early busses are also pretty stupid 9 out of 10 times so I highly doubt if I were to flip scum, the town would look at you next over it.

[Flubbernugget]

Moz has the lowest content to spam ratio in the game atm, so the vote makes sense in that regard.

you are either blind or stupid, since i gave out reads very quickly - too quicklyu according to some - and you cant get purer content than reads.
tl;dr: STFU.

It was spam in the sense of you taking about 10 posts to get that one set of reads out

[Flubbernugget]

Moz, have your reads changed at all?

[Flubbernugget]

You just called me a dick and then told me to be civil in the same post like what

[Flubbernugget]

Yep

[Flubbernugget]

I bet your mother is a

very nice person

[Flubbernugget]

Not mafia are you caught up

[Flubbernugget]

pagetop

If you spent half as much time scumhunting as you do hunting for pagetops I would probably town read you. Just saying.

I said something similar to this before, but at the time only one one of sheep's reads was questionable. What do you think has players pegging sheep as obvtown?

[Flubbernugget]

Not mafia are you caught up

Yes and no

Go on

[Flubbernugget]

Flubb you're dead. Good job using me as a human shield, but you won't survive past day 2.

So yeah, this is what faked aggression actually looks like. It's an empty threat that literally ignores everything I've said about them.

[Flubbernugget]

(last time I made a comment like that I got a death threat sooo this should be fun)

[Flubbernugget]

Yep. I agree. You should have asked him to post it in the day chat first before posting it so that you can both edit it together. Nice theatre.

-> Scum being a counterwagon to scum is stupid and unlikely
-> Scum bussing their buddies into L1 territory during a game that's extremely lax about quickhammers/derphammers is stupid and unlikely

Narrative much?

[Flubbernugget]

Flubb, why do you feel that it's a game that's lax about derphammers and quickhammers?

There's at least two troll players in the game + the whole reaction test debacle

[Flubbernugget]

Plus he says he's been townreading Flubb but went hostile with him earlier.

I'm not buying town!Moz here.

Wasn't that along the lines of them thinking I'm stupid town?

[Flubbernugget]

Possibly tangential but occam's razor is typically misapplied as a proposition instead of a heuristic.

[Flubbernugget]

Flubb, do you think they were fine reactions to someone thinking you are just stupid town? Also, I didn't recall that he was saying you were just stupid town.

My previous experience with moz involved them being pretty temperamental, and IIRC I was being a douche in the last game I played with them.

So, yes.

[Flubbernugget]

I didn't actually count this but I'm pretty sure that's L1

[Flubbernugget]

Also 807 isn't how pressure works

[Flubbernugget]

UNVOTE:

[Flubbernugget]

There's a catchup + a replacement on the way.

[Flubbernugget]

Flubber could be scum here.

This isn't what wanting to end the day looks like

[Flubbernugget]

Again people were trying to derail the Bu wagon right before it got to lynch. Will be taking a good hard look at those people if Bu flips scum.

In fact...

dayvig: sheep

Dude...

You are like...a *lot* better than this

[Flubbernugget]

Again people were trying to derail the Bu wagon right before it got to lynch. Will be taking a good hard look at those people if Bu flips scum.

In fact...

dayvig: sheep

Dude...

You are like...a *lot* better than this

So, I may have posted this too soon.

I've had this really weird feeling about seph the whole game because I just lost a scum game to him. He was very capable of articulating reads, interacting with players, and progressing the game. Like, he 100% had me snowed. Up until recent events, he's been really reserved, and I would honestly expect him to perform an exceptional game as either alignment considering his scum game. However, noting his recent interactions with Monkey, I might be attributing too much pure skill to him just having thrived in the environment we gave him in Nexus's normal (this by no stretch is implying he's a bad player btw).

What I'm also noting now is the similarities in how Monkey responded to Sephiroph's push and how he responded to mine. Notably:

-> Pushing discussion towards the accuser's aggression. With me, he called it fake. With seph, he's saying it's caustic and therefore unwarranted. Two different flavors of the same fallacious dismissal.
-> Trying to act as though it's acceptable to lynch for reactions as opposed to just lynching scum (I don't think he laced it with all the pre-flip association with me, but those are still convinient for scum to justify their early actions being wrong)
(As a corollary to the above point last time I played with monkey, he was town, and I don't remember him being so hesitant to lynch who he thought was scum)

Also, this wagon on an inactive slot is bad, and a waste of time.

VOTE: monkey

I'm willing to try this again while we wait for rem to catch up.

[Flubbernugget]

Also, bu's read of moz vs me (in light of being a pre flip) kinda sucks. White knights/scum defenses don't normally come along the lines of "fuck you but you're town". He *might* have something going for him that he doesn't seem to post a lot of tone reads, but there's still plenty of other reasons he is scum.

[Flubbernugget]

Fallacious dismissal sounds like a good band name

Ew prog

[Flubbernugget]

I also don't remember you Flubb, sorry. I usually remember people I play with. I feel bad now. What game is this?

List mod mafia

It appears you replaced out early, hence the bad recollection.

[Flubbernugget]

Monkey, what is your read on bu right now?

[Flubbernugget]

Most of the low content posters are being tone read as toen

[Flubbernugget]

Pre flips...

groan

That being said I do have to give you you're standing by them

[Flubbernugget]

Flubb, why do you think DeWay wagon is a waste of time?

They haven't posted again since it sprung up, have they?

[Flubbernugget]

Flubb, why do you think DeWay wagon is a waste of time?

They haven't posted again since it sprung up, have they?

Exactly. But why is it not worth it?

The only reaction it's given us is one I have a long history of giving off, for one.

[Flubbernugget]

Has anybody given the thought that the ucv slot hasn't bothered to read the game at all and has no clue there's a wagon on them

[Flubbernugget]

No, that's him not reading and asking for a summary instead.

And it conviniently ignores the context of the fact that they've only made three posts.

[Flubbernugget]

Has anybody given the thought that the ucv slot hasn't bothered to read the game at all and has no clue there's a wagon on them

can i just clear something up? UCV said could he be replaced with his alt Doyouknow? was that a joke or not?

Oh, I missed this

[Flubbernugget]

DYKDW is a big boy, I'm sure he can defend himself on his own. Especially considering his lynch is for more than just inactivity.

You're picking and choosing who has to defend themselves.

[Flubbernugget]

why are you trying to work out d1 by teams?

if you're town you're just going to wind up confbiasing yourself - start by explaining how my play is scum motivated and let's work from there

like nothing about this change in thoughts feels organic but i dont see the harm in humoring you

This is at hop right?

Because there's another player that's been a lot worse about solving the game via teams.

[Flubbernugget]

Go on

[Flubbernugget]

I'm of the opinion that calling a scumteam d1 is such a fundamentally terrible way to play that picking out the different ways of doing it is false nuance, but this still should be interesting.

[Flubbernugget]

just be clear, there is no rush. we can give th eguy a day after his prod.
but the worry always is: that won will start infighting and lose focus and start a wagon on someone else.
So happy to give the guy time, as long as we all agree to a sabbatical while we wait.

Keeping the ucv/alt thing in mind, this is a good post and a good tactic

[Flubbernugget]

There's plenty of targets mafia can easily pick that don't change the conversation.

You know mafia doesn't want to change the conversation how??

[Flubbernugget]

Of course you don't think my pushes are good. You're either town which will clout my arguments from your pov, or you're scum creating friction and then blaming it on me.

What's making me back off now is that amidst what's probably 20 pages of just us back and forth, there's people that are willing to wagon you, but want to push into other parts of the player base too. Even in my frustration with how people encourage this kind of screaming for blood/leadership, I still think there's a threshold well past my personal opinion that we're approaching. Bu still needs room to keep hanging himself with his posts, and I still don't really have a third scum read (though I'm more warm of ucv/hop lynches than I was before).

[Flubbernugget]

"There is a possibility I am wrong about Bu considering Hop and Flub are happy to lynch him on D1 when there's other options, I need more data"

vs

"I'm townreading or leaning everyone except a set of 5 people, and these three people have interactions that make me feel like I have found the scumteam"

These are equal levels of egregiously bad.

The calling the scumteam part only isn't as bad because you can attribute some of it to a trolly tone.

[Flubbernugget]

Since apparently it's unpopular I am going to look at my BuJab read again.
He rolled scum in his first game on site so I'll see what conclusions I can come up with after reading that game.

You seem more concerned with people reactions to your read than the validity of what they're saying.

[Flubbernugget]

I never vote on the basis of a scumslip

Never have never will.

[Flubbernugget]

SKs are a thing you guys nothing about that claim is towny

We're not lynching the vig claim and sk's still need to hit scum anyway

[Flubbernugget]

I don't think there's any urgency in lynching hop. From my perspective I can't read him and his posts are sort of passive and neutral. If he's scum I don't think he'd be able to manipulate town into lynching someone of his choosing. But he's definitely a better lynch than lynching lurkers because he has posted enough where we could probably find some associative reads.

As much as I think lurker lynches are bad, you can still get associatives off of them.

[Flubbernugget]

We're dealing with my shot before this lynch

I'm fine with you guys leashing me

This should only be done with dayvig

[Flubbernugget]

ty

intern you should probably out a few vig targets - i dont know how i feel about a serg vig considering hopkirk is still around but i dont like leashing entirely because if you make good shots you might be able to prove you're not sk. i wouldnt oppose either

pedit: owo

You've been making a lot of bad points and your tone reads outside of the very beginning of the game haven't been very good and I'm starting to question the town reads on you.

[Flubbernugget]

my one and only toneread was n_m?

why do you keep insinuating I’m using exclusively tone to make reads

I'm not insinuating you only make tone reads. It was often the only explanation as to why you disagreed with my points outside of me saying they're just bad.

[Flubbernugget]

I'm not questioning your town read of nm and before that post, you seemed to understand I was doing the exact opposite

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Literally every time you point to a post and try to explain to me why it's town, the reasoning is so absurd that I just gave you the benefit of the doubt that it was a tone thing I didn't see. Thinking about monkey's suspicions of you buddying him, you might just be coming from weird angles to grab a hold of the game state instead of scum hunt.

[Flubbernugget]

Thinking about monkey's suspicions of you buddying him, you might just be coming from weird angles to grab a hold of the game state instead of scum hunt.

also this implies monkey town + im wondering how you would be able to differentiate between the two here

help me out a little?

I've been easing up on monkey being scum because if someone is extremely loud about something you're doing and you don't change it in the slightest, you're probably standing behind a genuine belief.

Though more importantly, I don't hunt scum teams D1 and I've made it incredibly obvious I don't hunt scum teams D1. I'm working hard to respect the different ways people scumhunt and you should probably give me the same respect here.

[Flubbernugget]

Also, I'm surprised you had a change of heart on the ucv wagon. The timing now that they're close to replacement seems as though you just wanted the wagon to muddle vca and waste time.

VOTE: buj

[Flubbernugget]

VOTE: hopkirk

[Flubbernugget]

Seph misrepping sheep is kinda shitty but I've also had a decent town read on them so meh

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BAHAHAHAHAHAHA I'M SCUM FOR NOT INTERACTING WITH INACTIVE SLOTS

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Not much

Wanna wagon hop and watch him cry omgus?

[Flubbernugget]

Flubb sheep me here

Nah. Seph doesn't crumble as scum.

Talk to me about kat. They were one of the largest proponents of the ucv wagon, which not only was town, but gave us a really bad transition into D2. In addition, even if you're town, their reasons for townreading you were often contrived or nonsensical (which is probably why they're giving you those pocketing feels)

Pedit serg's play isn't much different than ucv's play

[Flubbernugget]

Kat, you think scum is planning to have you and me on LYLO? There's an awful lot of bad pushes against you.

What? Are you saying scum keeps alive players they push poorly?

[Flubbernugget]

If you have a result on seph and you're just now pointing it out you're either garbage town or scum.

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I need to prod dodge. I've over extended myself between school and work.

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Not caught up

Extra vote is blatant lie

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Dude you can't egg someone on by calling them a baby and then be confused that people don't think your chill. Your gambit yesterday is still perplexing, and moreso after the town flip.

No lynch is probably a good move.

[Flubbernugget]

Why do you want a no lynch for mostly vanilla?

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Right. I was thinking along the lines of that giving a pr less utility but given the flips that's not likely

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Getting back to this soon

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no like unless you want to see how other people react to your claim

because if you fake a green on someone you dont get anything useful out of the person you fake it on?
like the gambit seems useless imo

Well, if fb was scum, the correct mylo gambit is a, guilty on a townie

[Flubbernugget]

Fb shit gambiting in and of itself is nai. The fact that he didn't fake a guilty rings town imo

I'm VT

[Flubbernugget]

Hopkirk has been wobbling between null and scum for me + his reread had some really bad holes in it so I wanna popcorn there

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It could also be Kat, Fire, and N_M so we have to take this slow.

UNVOTE:

Is it Rem/Hop/sheep, or Kat/Fire/N_M? Hmmmmm.

Ur second team is insane

Not to mention he's considering practically the entire game for scum

[Flubbernugget]

Like yestersay I went through Flubber and made a case. Flubber was the only one who looked at it and he didn't respond beyond basically saying 'lol' which nobody cared about for some reason.

I didn't just say lol. I dismissed it.

The case was so bad, it only took one line for me to do so.

[Flubbernugget]

But I guess this starts falling back on the bad history schtick Kat brought up early game

[Flubbernugget]

Maybe it's because you were SCUM READING ME FOR NOT INTERACTING WITH INACTIVE SLOTS

[Flubbernugget]

That is responding to your points.

Make better points if you want more?

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I reread Flubber’s iso. It screams scum.

388 is terrible. He scumread UC/NM before that. Both lynchbaity. In 388 he drops both, focusing on scum on his wagon. He drops UC/NM completely after that. Barely mentions them whatsoever. Doesn’t try and interact with them or develop the reads. He also doesn’t take a significant stance on UC either way towards the end of the day. Consistency is off throughout. Tone is off throughout.

After this, he forms new scumreads on HeM, Buj, and me. I don’t like these because they’re me, flipped town, and one of my biggest townreads. Buj is also lynchbaity. HeM and me are arguing heavily at this point. Diverting attention from himself to us helps scum!flubber here. Crucially, he doesn’t make any effort to sort me after that. He mentions me around a dozen times after that. However, this is always talking about me. He doesn’t ask me any questions. The first time he quotes me is over sixty of him posts later. His question is just throwing shade. His next and last question to me is more shade. This isn’t what developing a read on me looks like. It’s opportunism. His entire approach is opportunism without a logical process of reads development.

Flubber’s sheep interactions want me to read sheep next.

If you think that stands, it still only addresses the first 1/3.
I don't think it stands.

*yawn*

Transitioning from rvs reads to real scum reads it natural and I was giving you the benefit of the doubt that you would think a little more about what you posted instead of convicting to it.

Saying I've diverted attention from myself is L A U G H A B L E and whatever you're trying to spin it as is 100% guaranteed to be afk timing.

Yes, you've been a tough read, and I was apathetic to trying to compare your citations against Kat's, and it wouldn't have made much sense to start pushing without a solid foundation of what I was going after. The majority of the inactive players haven't been pushed hard by the entirety of the Playlist so this selective scum tell is confbias at best.

I've also never heard of an opportunistic null read. That's a very creative spin, gg?

[Flubbernugget]

Monkey, if you're town you've absolutely fucked any chance of town getting useful information from your flip.

[Flubbernugget]

^^this is a perfect example of "I bussed my buddy and my wincon means I have to make sure the gambit pays off"

Monkey, to answer your question, sheep is today's lynch, I would like to see hopkirk tomorrow, and then we'll have to get lucky on a lurker. As far as info you'd give on a flip, you've been considering so many different scum teams today on the vague basis of what "makes sense" that there's no convictions to look at and consider the angle of a genuine push from you.

[Flubbernugget]

Less wordy/less direct/less effective

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Flubb sheep me here

Nah. Seph doesn't crumble as scum.

Talk to me about kat. They were one of the largest proponents of the ucv wagon, which not only was town, but gave us a really bad transition into D2. In addition, even if you're town, their reasons for townreading you were often contrived or nonsensical (which is probably why they're giving you those pocketing feels)

Pedit serg's play isn't much different than ucv's play

^^this is a perfect example of "I bussed my buddy and my wincon means I have to make sure the gambit pays off"

Monkey, to answer your question, sheep is today's lynch, I would like to see hopkirk tomorrow, and then we'll have to get lucky on a lurker. As far as info you'd give on a flip, you've been considering so many different scum teams today on the vague basis of what "makes sense" that there's no convictions to look at and consider the angle of a genuine push from you.

This suspicion of Kat vanished and Kat shot to town too easily.

I found kat to be town for the majority of the game. I had a suspicion from them taking a lot of bad angles with me that they were buddying monkey, but it's fair to dismiss that as omgus logic.

You're welcome to keep reaching though

[Flubbernugget]

Also I'm not sure where I made some hard push that sheep was town or anything similar so saying I "supported" them is another reach

[Flubbernugget]

Also I'm not sure where I made some hard push that sheep was town or anything similar so saying I "supported" them is another reach

What post is this @?

The one where you tried to deflect from needing your bus to pay off

[Flubbernugget]

OT, but an introductory econ course usually just describes models without deriving any right/wrong conclusions from them. I would assume if you don't try to relate what you're learning to works that are probably built on top of it (I haven't actually read anything from Marx, but he comes after Adam Smith so I'm making a safe bet), you'll understand the material better.

[Flubbernugget]

^^This is a perfect example of 'I've been supporting my buddy all game and need a scapegoat'

Why don't you want Rem tomorrow?

[Flubbernugget]

Dude, you can't act like supporting and ignoring are the same thing.

"good read" says nothing if you're scum, at which case you'd be more equipped to make a correct scum case than town.

[Flubbernugget]

Because I'm more concerned that you see a need to shift goalposts?

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This is the fight I've been wanting to happen since MayPac.

lol

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...what

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because this game is apathetic and soul sucking rn

[Flubbernugget]

Also I'm not sure where I made some hard push that sheep was town or anything similar so saying I "supported" them is another reach

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I literally did what you said i would do as town, and saying you misrepped me as some bs reaction test after four days and 100 pages of posts is f u c k i n g i n s a n e

[Flubbernugget]

There was a general consensus that sheep was obvtown (pretty sure I said this before) which shows you're picking and choosing which players to scum read

2655 is just you not knowing how to fake a reaction test as scum (hint: do it earlier in the game next time)

[Flubbernugget]

also,

f u c k i n g i n s a n e

[Flubbernugget]

Oh wow, a scumread based on me misreading something. Are you trying to say I held onto that? Thats dumber than me misreading in the first place.

And then we have a minor suspicion that sheep cleared up in their next response (the one you didn't quote because...reasons)

I still stand by going from top town to scum to be a valid scum tell. I don't know why that has to mirror my read on sheep.

Sephiroph is better than shitty dayvig reaction tests. I'm pretty sure saying seph was misrepping sheep means I read what sheep was saying, and concluded that Seph did not recollect it correctly. Unless you're going to make that same strange argument monkey made about being too consistent == scum.

Honestly, I could respond to your points all day. They all retract from the main (and most important point).

you could make the case on me you're making for every player in the game sans yourself and sephiroph.

[Flubbernugget]

Most of monkey talking to sheep is him listing his scumteams (and, again, he's had the entire game as scum at one point or another), and kat spends more time talking about sheep than interacting with them (because again, they thought sheep was obvtown)

[Flubbernugget]

That's clearly not WHY I scumread you, in case you didn't notice I've been saying it non stop for a while now.

Well, you're welcome to die on the "flub failed the fake reaction test" hill

[Flubbernugget]

People are voting off of the confirmed scum and I think that's good reason the day needs to end now.

Full catch up soon

[Flubbernugget]

Page 115.

I need to reread because my eyes seem to have glossed over something important. I missed how the nm/dino cross came out.

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2957 is some clever spin if I've ever seen it

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So with all of these "confirmations" it should probably be noted that a 3p quickhammer is extremely difficult to coordinate

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Monkey was doing the same thing

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Monkey I'm as the same spot as last time you asked but more apathetic

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Monkey, do you remember a single time anyone appreciated RC faking a guilty on someone?

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lol

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I wish I was as chill as sheep when I was 12

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Thanks for hosting mod

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I wish I was as chill as sheep when I was 12

ur not even chill now

LMAO now you know why I wished

[Flubbernugget]

1. I'm extremely not okay with that on the basis that the longer this game goes on, the less anyone will actually give a shit who we lynch

Welp

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Hopkirk you're probably one of the most underrated players on this site atm and it really sucked for us having to keep you alive

[Flubbernugget]

And if anyone tries to point a finger at hop for floating around everyone's scum list they're going to be really bad at this game for a very long time

[Flubbernugget]

I don't think mafia kills were compulsive?

[Flubbernugget]

but scumteam was good

I really don't mean to be a debby downer but town undoubtedly lost this game more than scum won it (yes, I acknowledge I was part of the problem). We started with a poorly advised lynch on lynch bait. My lynch was absurdly bad and the ultimatum, as I've previously covered, is EXTREMELY ANTI-TOWN. The results of that ultimatum were exactly what you would expect. We also had a town PR kill another PR.

Flubber basically lurked through the game, and serg flaked out giving the slot basically a free pass on 90% of the massive thread (which was massive because it was inflated artificially). And you, sheep, I had pegged mid D1.

Town, myself included, lost this game. Hard.

I definitely agree that this is a bigger town loss than scum win, but I wasn't lurking (don't think I got a single prod), and had I not flamed the thread D1, town would have probably been more motivated in subsequent days.

[Flubbernugget]

MVP sheep

Sigh. He was obvscum to me =(

Honestly I didn't understand any of the obvtown reads on sheep but I definetly saw the value in just going with it.

[Flubbernugget]

So, the Mafia Discussion forum here has a thread expressing a concern for the town win rates being in decline. I think there's a lot that the scum team was able to capitalize on that was in bad style on behalf of the town, and I'd like to talk about some of the things that happened in this game. I want to make sure nobody thinks I'm crossing the line between criticism and insult before doing so.

I don't want to mention players by name (though I do want to mention points that would identify players if someone else were to read this game), and I don't want to talk about post volume, or other issues that may be controversial/attributed to playstyle. I think that my being scum in this game has a testament in it that I am posting in good faith, and don't have any gripes with any players on a personal level.

Would anybody be offended or otherwise against me doing a bit of an autopsy this way?

[Flubbernugget]

I'm interested to see what you think that would be