Mini Normal 1989: A Perfectly Normal Day -- Game Over

[profii]

VOTE: shadd_
Voting for last game mod feels naughty he he

Vote tag edited for votecounter ~insanity

[profii]

Be better if I could spell. Sorry

[profii]

Or was it a baaa-d vote?

Geddit

[profii]

Hewhoswims is L-1 - havo will hammer eep

[profii]

WARNING to all who partipiciate here: As long as Havo is here, treat any vote to L-1 as a hammer.

Gut scum feels but idk.

I wondered the same about you for getting on HWS knowing that Havo wasn’t making an idle threat

[profii]

The question is, Chickadee, do we think scum are on the wagon?

[profii]

VOTE: TChill13

[profii]

tchill town too

I’m voting for probable scum on the wagon, plus putting HWS at L-1 without declaration, plus doing that in a game where havo will likely quick hammer _could_ = a naughty way of getting a mislynch


For want of a better plan this early on

[profii]

I just re-read the HWS/NK interaction to try and make a bit of sense about it. Some good stuff has actually come out of it:

HWS claimed VT - I am a believer that it's not the worst thing in the world to lose a VT on day 1 - that is on the basis that we know not a lot right now and if we are going to miss scum then I'd rather lose VT than a PR. I'm not sure if that is accepted site-meta but I certainly attest to it. Obviously, killing scum is the best outcome but it's understandably difficult on day 1.

So I disagree with NK15's point that town should be angry about lynch pressure at this stage - if you are claiming VT.


Now most of us in this game saw what Havo did in the last one, there has also been warnings in the thread regarding quick hammers. Tchill put HWS at L-1 quietly, NK15 did it on the basis he didn't like HWS' response to the pressure. I don't like either of these actions.


So looking at the people on the vote, maybe we are looking at a mislynch so scum is likely to be involved. Where might that be:

Curiously, eth0s was involved in RVS. He then voted Sheep for voting HWS (HWS could vote for my pun- but didn't) and jumped in an explained it. seems to early to think about chainsaws, but it does stand out.

The rest of the wagon was an RVS wagon quite early. So eth0s has some questionable actions and TChill and NK15 have some wreckless votes that may cause a lynch.

I'm happy with my vote on TChill, could be talked into voting NK15 very very easily.

[profii]

VOTE: Not Known 15

I think a wagon here is appropriate at this stage. If people go with my point that tchill did the same thing as him without making a song and dance around it, I'll vote there too.

[profii]

It's funny that you are calling calmness a scum tell then randomly using bold and caps etc.


I don't see his Havo read as a problem - declaring a quick lynch is odd and town are unlikely to do the logical thing and treat L-2 as L-1 to safeguard. Some people are not online all the time or have the time to read every thread carefully straight away so give the guy time.

[profii]

but you have no concern over how I interpret HWS' read on Havo.

Way to only care about your own appearance


pedit: chumba.... I was thinking the same thing... I fear I am becoming compliant with site meta in a mere 4 or so games.

[profii]

It’s early day 1. I’m going to scum hunt instead of policy lynch somebody who didn’t react the way you wanted him to. That’s why I hate reaction tests. People don’t know how to gauge reactions accurately.

I nearly quoted this earlier and posted I've made this mistake so this is good advice but it just seemed weird to be so agreeable with you

[profii]

VOTE: TChill13

Hm, why this vote out of all the people on the wagon? (Also rereading I found out I wasn't at L-1 when profi said so, I was at L-2). I've seen townie Tchill put town to actual L-1 earlier.

I'm not sure if scum!havo would quickhammer a town wagon just because of the attention it will bring. I'd see a townie do it sooner if that makes sense.

Surely as Profii says in 101 if you're gonna mislynch on D1 it'd be better to lynch VT than a power role, but that is IF we mislynch. We have 2 weeks ahead of us and although we don't have to use all of that time... getting the game to flow might just increase the likelihood of catching scum D1 although it's a long shot. Also Eth0s' post was indeed a bit opportunistic (perhaps not the right word??) although I'm not too worried about it for now, it was page 1 and early RVS ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Also yeah no I wouldn't play against my wincon/not participate with any alignment. I still don't see how the f I was supposed to have reads in my last post if there's next to nothing to talk about except a wagon on myself and some RVS votes.

was a fake interpretation of the posts of Havo

Is it fake because you're scumreading me?

All I have for now. Chumba, Profii leaning town.

im sure you’ve read the rest of the thread and spotted why but just in case

I don’t like to repeat myself usually as it’s a good way to catch people who aren’t paying attention but I’ll highlight something that you might not be aware of

A majority of players in this game have just completed a game together where havo quick hammered 3x on the bounce as VT and got next to no pressure for it. He also quoted the disclaimer from that game in this thread so I suspect most of the gang from that game believe he will do it again

So my vote was on TChill because he was in the aforementioned game, therefore by L-1 voting, he knows a lynch is probable, if he is scum, he knows a mislynch is probable and defensible.

Interesting that you queried that principle - Not Known 15 was not in that game, so he is interpreting the havo warnings differently to you, yet encouraging a lynch anyway for obviously different reasons. Worth noting

[profii]

Havo are you scum?

[profii]

Aw man, thought I had ya then

[profii]

Profii's play has me a bit concerned.

What about profii's play has you concerned? He's had pretty good observations so far I think

Just doesn't feel like his usually posting style. I don't want to say too much about it right now but I will elaborate if it continues to strike me as weird.

I really thought you’d mixed up screen names until you posted that haha

Imo your initial post was a bit of a disaster...

You are scum leaning HWS but then townleaning him based on how everyone else perceives him? So you are manufacturing your read to fit in with the group??

I’d ask you about what you mean with me but I have no idea so I’m not really bothered

You are mistaken about Havo - he quoted the disclaimer post from our previous game -

i suggest we treat L-2 as L-1 from here on in!

I’m very keen for you to explain your town read on tchill, my scum read is based on the havo factor, plus tchil being aware of that as he participated in the last game and then tchil put a wagon at l-1 which he knows would likely cause a lynch that he could blame havo for.

I’m keen to see how NK reacts to this wagon but I think if tchill flips scum it shows he was lining up havo to take the fall for a mislynch which would actually give havo potential town points, although feel free to wifom and say that could be a planned scum move between the pair of them, doesn’t matter right now

[profii]

That's NK15 at 5 I think, another vote and Havo may likely hammer, think carefully from here on in

[profii]

That's NK15 at 5 I think, another vote and Havo may likely hammer, think carefully from here on in

Hammering havo is back on the prowl. Yall are cracking me up with the "this is really L-1" treatment.

whys that

[profii]

well you lose your pressure if you let havo just lynch. so you either are happy for NK To just go or you want to pressure him and see how he deals with it.

for me 171 & 172 are in direct conflict of each other

[profii]

Well I’ll make my point anyway

Havo has given us no doubt that he will quick hammer so to play the game in the ‘usual’ way this is not cautious at all.

Therefore, it is worth noting that you put someone at L-1 without highlighting it. I’ve mentioned this is a problem because it was risking a lynch without flushing out the info

I’ve pointed out that you can’t say you want to apply pressure & not be concerned about the quick lynch simultaneously so I don’t like that either - dismissing the havo effect on the game makes me think you just want a lynch

So that makes me think if you flip scum NK will flip town - he probably was scum hunting in his own special way

VOTE: tchill13

As I said earlier I was happy with either you or NK but I think you just tipped the scales in your direction again

[profii]

So of all those possibilities, in your opinion which one most applies

[profii]

VOTE: TChill13

Hm, why this vote out of all the people on the wagon? (Also rereading I found out I wasn't at L-1 when profi said so, I was at L-2). I've seen townie Tchill put town to actual L-1 earlier.

I'm not sure if scum!havo would quickhammer a town wagon just because of the attention it will bring. I'd see a townie do it sooner if that makes sense.

Surely as Profii says in 101 if you're gonna mislynch on D1 it'd be better to lynch VT than a power role, but that is IF we mislynch. We have 2 weeks ahead of us and although we don't have to use all of that time... getting the game to flow might just increase the likelihood of catching scum D1 although it's a long shot. Also Eth0s' post was indeed a bit opportunistic (perhaps not the right word??) although I'm not too worried about it for now, it was page 1 and early RVS ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Also yeah no I wouldn't play against my wincon/not participate with any alignment. I still don't see how the f I was supposed to have reads in my last post if there's next to nothing to talk about except a wagon on myself and some RVS votes.

was a fake interpretation of the posts of Havo

Is it fake because you're scumreading me?

All I have for now. Chumba, Profii leaning town.

Whats that first paragraph say?

it says “Profii is a retard and cannot do simple tasks such as count”

UNVOTE: Tchill

[profii]

I think it's definitely anti town but if you look at players (Havo and T) who have the same attitude towards it every game (or well - I assume they have?) I doubt it is really AI.

I think meta arguments aren't too strong normally.
Town may keep their earlier town game for obvious reasons.
Town may leave their earlier town game in case it didn't lead to good results.
Town may stay with their earlier scum game if it's their normal style.
Town may leave their earlier scum game because they play different as town.
Scum may keep to their earlier town game because it's hiding them and/or it's their playstyle.
Scum may leave their earlier town game if it made them look scummy.
Scum may keep their earlier scum game if it helped them win or do well.
Scum may ditch their earlier scum game if they got caught or were obvscum.

If that makes sense.

I feel that meta arguments are usually wobbly as either town or scum may have reason to stick to or leave previous meta. I have town meta on tchill and Havo and I wouldn't be able to solidly tell whether they're scum emulating their town play (albeit a small part of course) or town being themselves.

Obviously y'all could see this differently but I thought I'd throw these thoughts out there

You appear to have spent all those words discrediting the one sentence at the end that almost constitutes a read

[profii]

INTENT TO VOTE NK15 CLAIM NOW.

This.

[profii]

nope

[profii]

Profii I'm not quite sure what you mean by your reaction to me. I thought I was pretty clear: your talk about Tchill and L1 isn't really affecting my read. Which I find hard to formulate at this point aside from Chumba townlean and Ethos scumlean. For the rest I'll have to see. I'm not too stressed about Chick being bad under pressure.

Tchill I kinda disagree? Killed pr means the or is gone, outed pr might be protected or something if town is lucky.

You said you were making assumptions about t(chill?) and havo

You said meta arguments aren’t too strong

Then you said you had town meta on tchil and havo


I felt the point of the post was unclear

[profii]

NK15 hasn’t posted for a while. I think I’ll give him a chance to say something before we let Havo jump in

[profii]

I'm townreading tchill because I want to.

What the.... no that is not a valid response to a questioned townread. It looks more like a post to hide that they are scum and have absolutely nothing to back up a made up townread. Probably they hope it will get lost after the day ends in my mislynch. Don't make that mistake. If you see my green flip, think about this at night.
VOTE: eth0s

I claim VT.

See I’m not going to get on that lynch. That eth0s post

was awful

[profii]

NK15 - I’m glad you brought up counterwagons because I need to post a vote.

Now, I made a case against tchil which was pretty solid (if I do say so myself) except as TChil rightly pointed out, it was based on him putting a L-1 vote down which wasn’t the case

When I went through the case again, schadd laid down a vote without saying anything, so because I believe my case was awesome I took it as sheeping...

So then it transpired I was wrong- this makes tchil less scummy, but at the time my case looked strong- could schadd be thinking the wagon was going to take off so best to get in quietly to push along what we can now see is more likely to be a mislynch?

I could be being really arrogant because this is based on my own read / case etc so thought I’d put that to someone else to give an opinion

[profii]

VOTE: schadd_

... in the mean time I’ll go with my hunch

[profii]

I'm townreading tchill because I want to.

What the.... no that is not a valid response to a questioned townread. It looks more like a post to hide that they are scum and have absolutely nothing to back up a made up townread. Probably they hope it will get lost after the day ends in my mislynch. Don't make that mistake. If you see my green flip, think about this at night.
VOTE: eth0s

I claim VT.

Why would I even bother sending that response to profii if I were scum? I would have either not answered it or came up with a better answer than "I want to".
I was actually just hoping that would attract an opportunistic vote on myself. And I was right.
But even better than getting voted opportunistically, it was actually an OMGUS from the scum I've been pressuring.

I love this game sometimes

I’m not sure I’m ready to put “baiting NK15” into the significant events column just yet

[profii]

You can’t say why you town read tchill?

[profii]

Chickadee - do you see HWS or NK15 flipping scum?

[profii]

Chickadee - do you see HWS or NK15 flipping scum?

Not based off of what has happened so far.

Are you expecting something to happen that might change that?

[profii]

If you were scum, of course - this is what we are all here to find out!

[profii]

chumba is town
profii is town

chickadee is prolly town

VOTE: chumba

what happened

[profii]

@jodaxq - to be more clear

I liked NKs response so I wasn’t getting on the NK wagon... however I didn’t like the eth0s post so I voted

[profii]

That's NK15 at 5 I think, another vote and Havo may likely hammer, think carefully from here on in

I feel like profii is being overly aware of this Havo hammering situation. It's starting to feel kinda lamist. Like "hey look at me I'm the one that's keeping us from having a quick hammer!"

I agree. But this whole “OMG Havo will Hammer!” Has been quite entertaining. Lol

You’ve not said you won’t so I feel it’s warranted

[profii]

@jodaxq - to be more clear

I liked NKs response so I wasn’t getting on the NK wagon... however I didn’t like the eth0s post so I voted

You didn't vote for eth0s though. You made your case for Schadd in the next post

I knew I made the post you queried and what I meant, didn't realise I didn't vote. I responded without looking back

I like my schadd theory, I'd need to read eth0s iso a bit more carefully before deciding my read at this point

[profii]

If eth0s flips town I'm not sure why I need to flip NK(?) next. If it was day 2 I'd say maybe it's a soft cop crumb but day 1... wut wut

[profii]

havo does feel different this game, wonder if this is his first scum game. then again tchill does also.

i'm so confused.

I definitely thought that about Havo and I do remember saying he has never played Scum in our last game.


I'd have to re-read TChill ISO, he hasn't stood out as much to me so far

[profii]

havo does feel different this game, wonder if this is his first scum game. then again tchill does also.

i'm so confused.

The town Chumba I know would never post “I’m so confused”

That’s a post to try and look townish.

hmmm remember after whoever it was that chumba was tunnelling (a bit ) died, he then said he had no idea who the scum were... same difference imo.. just no one has become tunnel worthy for chumba yet... I disagree with your post.

[profii]

I don't know what to make of the eth0s breakdown

[profii]

VOTE: havo

Phone posting, more to come after footy... give me a couple hours

[profii]

no point searching for another scum now because they will use our discussion to fiddle the night kills/actions/etc.

I think I'm on Havo. I think Chumba should just vote and Havo can Havo himself

[profii]

I do think that’s uncharacteristic for profli. He is usually more verbose and logical

At the time of the post RE eth0s that got mentioned I felt eth0s had strayed from logical into annoyingly sweary argue mode

[profii]

I.e I don’t mind a valid 1v1 based on a logical argument but they lost their way

[profii]

VOTE: havo

Phone posting, more to come after footy... give me a couple hours

no point searching for another scum now because they will use our discussion to fiddle the night kills/actions/etc.

I think I'm on Havo. I think Chumba should just vote and Havo can Havo himself

definitely looks like profii expected the day to end.

I expected not to come back to pages of dribble

[profii]

Havo I'm sorry that you are so bad at being a town player but please don't take your anger out on me

I have no anger towards you. Your play to this points speaks for itself.

Your attitude towards the other players reveals your real character as well.

yeah, and you were a dickhead last game and a dickhead this game. I think have your character pegged pretty well. So if you want to throw shade at me for keeping up with your dickheadedness, or for calling sheep out for emptyvoting and trying to look productive, then I guess I'm just a real asshole, right?

Jodaxq - this was near the start of the 1v1 and when I went offline for a couple of hours. When I came back it appeared the 1v1 had gone on for around 3 pages so based on the insults going out at the start I decided not to waste my time on it

Quick flick through eth0s ISO and it didn’t get any worse so I’ll catch up properly today. Got a couple of early meetings so may be later the afternoon

[profii]

Chumba needs to be lynched. Pretty obvious imo havo wasn't being manipulative. Chumba manipulated the conversation to put havo is a bad spot. Eth0s literally said "bad town player" and havo hasn't drawn scum on site as far as ik so eth0s couldn't have been talking about his scum game leading me to believe eth0s was calling him a bad town player.

It's silly. It's a technicality that chumba has honed in on.

Now one read it as TvT so when havo flips town eth0s would be the next to be pointed at.

I'm not quite sure why nobody is understanding this.

Chumba literally has a scum team pinned down but wants Havo's head. Not the other two. He wants havo lynched. The other two don't lead to another person getting lynched if they flip town. If havo flips town it might lead to eth0s getting lynched.

I think this is chumba meta though so I don't think it is scum indicative. It will be annoying because he wont let it go but I'm not going to scum read him for it.

[profii]

right I am super clever and worked out you can add 2 players to the ISO page so I've just looked at Havo and eth0s.

I voted Havo based on 392 = I didn't recall a massive eth0s push in the last game from him, I'm sure he will disagree but I felt this could be some kind of weird ploy starting up.

As I said, eth0s had a breakdown, it felt entirely not constructive so I wasn't inclined to read it or catch up with it after it expanded for a couple of pages whilst I was busy yesterday. However, looking at it, it wasn't as mud-slingy as I thought it was going to be, but I still didn't take much from it...

UNVOTE: havo

I like TChill's point that a scum is unlikely to push as hard at this point and attract attention so much.

[profii]

Chumba needs to be lynched. Pretty obvious imo havo wasn't being manipulative. Chumba manipulated the conversation to put havo is a bad spot. Eth0s literally said "bad town player" and havo hasn't drawn scum on site as far as ik so eth0s couldn't have been talking about his scum game leading me to believe eth0s was calling him a bad town player.

It's silly. It's a technicality that chumba has honed in on.

Now one read it as TvT so when havo flips town eth0s would be the next to be pointed at.

I'm not quite sure why nobody is understanding this.

Chumba literally has a scum team pinned down but wants Havo's head. Not the other two. He wants havo lynched. The other two don't lead to another person getting lynched if they flip town. If havo flips town it might lead to eth0s getting lynched.

I think this is chumba meta though so I don't think it is scum indicative. It will be annoying because he wont let it go but I'm not going to scum read him for it.

Well frankly I'm not pitching this to you. You're the one that expected havo to be lynched before you got back.

lol?

you shouldn't need to pitch anything, if your reasoning on any read is sound and true then why would you have to frame it in a way that appeals to a particular player.

[profii]

I think eth0s is very strongly town from the 1v1. I agree with the points TChill made about not wanting to expose himself with a fit like this if he were scum.

Profii's behavior around the 1v1 is concerning to me. He popped in and out without trying to interfere with anything, he kept putting off having a reaction - "I'm not sure what to make about eth0s' breakdown," and he came in with a pretty opportunistic vote on Havo.

i agree that ethos comes off as town from the 1v1

but the fact that profii didnt interfere doesn't bother me at all because it's what i would've done if i were online at the time. sometimes you gain more information from just letting the game play out

no point searching for another scum now because they will use our discussion to fiddle the night kills/actions/etc.

I think I'm on Havo. I think Chumba should just vote and Havo can Havo himself

This post is really bad. Profii, who has made sure to let everyone know that Havo hammers at L-1 so we don't get a quick lynch, is talking in this post like Havo is a done deal and tried to push his lynch through quickly.

to be fair, i like the thought of havo havoing himself

osuka, you are exactly on my wavelength at this point.

havo havoing himself was an amusing thought than a push to lynch (this sentence aimed at Jodaxq criticism)

I've already pointed out the argument was becoming more insults than debate of facts so I stayed away. It just seemed tedious.

[profii]

Eth0s literally said "bad town player"

That isn't what ethos said at all. I challenged havo to find where ethos said "bad town player" and he was unable to. I would challenge you to do the same but I know you will end up with the same results. This is what ethos said word for word unedited.

Havo I'm sorry that you are so

bad at being a town player

but please don't take your anger out on me

As I have already explained (which I shouldn't have to since anyone who has passed middle school english should be able to figure this out) "You are bad town" has a completely different meaning than "you are a bad town player"

Reluctantly, I feel the need to be really really finicky about this.

You are not quoting eth0s word for word in your post,

eth0s: you are so bad at being a town player
tchill: bad town player
chumba: you are a bad town player

the above 3 quotes are all from the above quoted post and all are slightly different.

I think the key to eth0s' sentence is the word 'being' - this firstly suggests present tense, so reference to what havo is doing in

this game

. It could also suggest he thinks havo is not a town player at this moment and he is acting - i.e. scum reading or if he was town reading havo, it could just be that he thinks the way havo is playing the game isn't particularly productive.

In relation to your quote of "you are a bad town player" - without the word 'being' this is less specific to the present moment in time and could be interpreted as "in all the games I've seen you play, you are a bad town player" - I think it's less specific than eth0s post - different enough to comment on anyway.

I haven't fully read the argument so I can't comment as well on the tchill quote as just that quote is a bit out of context as it stands.

[profii]

Havo where do you stand on Tchill?

[profii]

Then hang on, you did something similar again here and I would have expected you to contest my post on the basis of what you said in 378

He never says you are bad town, He says you are bad at being a town player.

The are similar yet completely different statements.

agreed...

Saying you are bad town would imply this game.

Saying you play bad as town implies something different imo.

disagree. I said in my last post, saying you are bad town, could refer to any game.
Using the word being implies present tense i.e. this game, which contradicts your post.

you also changed the quote again "you play bad as town"

I would suggest "you play bad as town" and "you are bad town" carry highly similar meanings, i.e. your general game...

but

"you are bad at being a town player" implies present tense i.e. this game only.


that's actually quite concerning being as it is the fundamental basis of your tunnel

[profii]

Havo I'm sorry that you are so bad at being a town player but please don't take your anger out on me

Havo I'm sorry that you are so bad at being a town player

are you slipping that she's town

Nope, he was a bad townie last game. Now it seems like angry scum this time around

@ chumba - I looked back as I think I'm getting bogged down in the words and not the context. I agree with eth0s and yourself that eth0s was referencing the last game - I still think the choice of words was not perfect but I can excuse that of anyone as my English is terrible.
However - I don't think Havo was particularly manipulating the situation, so for me. I think that's the end of it.



@ havo - I really like that post. I agree with the principle that day 1 is a lot of rubbish but I think letting it run on for a bit gives us a few things to reflect upon later in the game, so we are probably approaching that point.

I'm not sure on Schadd_ I accidently mis-rep'd tchill on getting the vote count wrong and he also voted but as he is a low contributor, I don't know if it was sheeping in the hope I'd found something or if he had a read of some kind.

Jodaxq seems like a logical poster, I get why she had concerns over some of my posts, but I'm glad that Osuka totally got where I was coming from- sometimes I worry that I'm terrible at written English and say stupid things, but if Osuka read it perfectly, it wasn't that bad. Either way I'm happy with both of them.


Now I've contextualised the Chumba/Havo fight I guess I need to really look at where Tchill sat to pull a read from it - I feel like he doesn't give too much away so that might be my best hope to decide.


But so far I think we are probably going to be finding scum amongst the lurkers, which always makes it tough.

[profii]

But so far I think we are probably going to be finding scum amongst the lurkers, which always makes it tough.

Hmmmm.... I think we might have indeed one scum in the lurkers.
How about HeWhoSwims?
They were the target of pressure first, didnt do much to defend themselves, but others did, which means we even have associatives if they flip.
They were one of the two VT claims already, and getting another person up drastically increased the chance of outing a PR.
They are lurking.

none of that is scum indicative, so why don't we play ip dip instead?

[profii]

If we're really going to be stubborn enough to limit ourselves to Chumba or Havo, I'll vote Chumba, but where is everyone else?

They’re both town so I’m not voting either


- tchill - I voted havo because he said he pegged eth0s in the last game. Although he made some posts eth0s related I felt this was an iffy thing to raise in this game, given he didn’t give it a strong push on the last game it just felt weird.

However many pages on and 24 hours later I think it’s tvt(vt in chumba too)

[profii]

VOTE: tchill

I’m not being anywhere near a havo or chumba wagon as I’m pretty clear this is a personality clash not a manipulation. Tchil however isn’t clashing with personalities he is advocating a push on chumba for a play i expect chumba to make when scum hunting (annoying as he can be )

Tchil do you think where myself and chumba were commenting on our unusual agreements on reads very early on would be a scum play? I don’t know if scum openly buddy but I can’t think of a reason they would?

[profii]

vt in chumba too

why did you feel the need to mention you think i am a vt?

I think the whole thing was town vs town vs town. It wasn’t a random softclaim

[profii]

I think eth0s is very strongly town from the 1v1. I agree with the points TChill made about not wanting to expose himself with a fit like this if he were scum.

Profii's behavior around the 1v1 is concerning to me. He popped in and out without trying to interfere with anything, he kept putting off having a reaction - "I'm not sure what to make about eth0s' breakdown," and he came in with a pretty opportunistic vote on Havo.

i agree that ethos comes off as town from the 1v1

but the fact that profii didnt interfere doesn't bother me at all because it's what i would've done if i were online at the time. sometimes you gain more information from just letting the game play out

no point searching for another scum now because they will use our discussion to fiddle the night kills/actions/etc.

I think I'm on Havo. I think Chumba should just vote and Havo can Havo himself

This post is really bad. Profii, who has made sure to let everyone know that Havo hammers at L-1 so we don't get a quick lynch, is talking in this post like Havo is a done deal and tried to push his lynch through quickly.

to be fair, i like the thought of havo havoing himself

osuka, you are exactly on my wavelength at this point.

havo havoing himself was an amusing thought than a push to lynch (this sentence aimed at Jodaxq criticism)

I've already pointed out the argument was becoming more insults than debate of facts so I stayed away. It just seemed tedious.

Does anyone else believe that profii's Havo Havoing himself post was just amusing? This was after he voted Havo and said there's no point in searching out another scum.

the bit about not finding scum was meant as in “let’s not get into pre conf bias on day 1”

Not “havo is the scum and I’m sticking til he dies”

[profii]

Jodaxq seems like a logical poster, I get why she had concerns over some of my posts, but I'm glad that Osuka totally got where I was coming from- sometimes I worry that I'm terrible at written English and say stupid things, but if Osuka read it perfectly, it wasn't that bad. Either way I'm happy with both of them.

Yeah I don't like this at all. In what post did Osuka totally get where you are coming from? He said he didn't mind you not interfering with the 1v1 and then said he thought Havo Havoing himself was amusing (which I don't think he said that to defend you).
The biggest problems are your extremely opportunistic vote on Havo and your post where you say there's no point in hunting other scum. You dropped a vote on Havo and said you'd be away for awhile. Why the rush to vote Havo then? Why not wait until you came back to catch up and vote? Then, you come back, clarify you're still on Havo, and say there's no point in hunting like Havo already has enough votes to be lynched.

Re: osuka- that was it. Havo havoing himself was tongue in cheek. I couldn’t be bothered adding to the drama

That’s all those posts meant and osuka got it

You questioned it - I can see why but we are venturing into the point where you are looking for scum , you are either pressuring me to see if I slip or you sense a wagon approaching with tchills assistance.


I’ve stated my reason for voting havo and I’ve stated it was irrelevant to the drama. If you continue to not accept that then I have an issue with you slot

[profii]

VOTE: profii

I'm not getting caught up in chumba v havo.

We have a direction if profii flips scum. This is fine.

See ya sheep.

Profii could be scum piggy backing off town chumba.

Profii could be scum with chumba.

There's really not any major town incentives for the moves he's made so far imo.

great direction there if you are going to get the town lost, don’t lead

[profii]

vt in chumba too

why did you feel the need to mention you think i am a vt?

I think the whole thing was town vs town vs town. It wasn’t a random softclaim

I get you now think it is t v t v t, but that doesn't explain why you felt the need to point out you think I am a vt

Chickadee on point - it was just the way the brackets sat. I make no claim to your role, just town reading all 3 of you

[profii]

I think I’ve answered all the credible questions aimed at me so far with what I believe

If I’ve missed you - apologies, quote it and I’ll do my best

[profii]

VOTE: profii

I'm not getting caught up in chumba v havo.

We have a direction if profii flips scum. This is fine.

See ya sheep.

Profii could be scum piggy backing off town chumba.

Profii could be scum with chumba.

There's really not any major town incentives for the moves he's made so far imo.

great direction there if you are going to get the town lost, don’t lead

Hey man if you flip scum you could be bussing havo also. Gives us TWO people to go after. How great is that?

Where do you go when i flip town and I town read 3 players?

[profii]

If you flip town I'm thinking havo. Maybe eth0s. Maybe a lurker.

Someone quote this tomorrow if I die. Hold tchill to this and see if he gets stuck

[profii]

My favorite part is you went from leaving havo in the gutter to town reading him because of a point I made THEN you pushed me lol. Good job profii.

How many posts happened between my vote and my town read? Approx will do

[profii]

If you flip town I'm thinking havo. Maybe eth0s. Maybe a lurker.

Someone quote this tomorrow if I die. Hold tchill to this and see if he gets stuck

That's the best you could come up with? Didn't ask me why? Just a "hold him to it after I flip town".

im more interested in why that bothered you

My favorite part is you went from leaving havo in the gutter to town reading him because of a point I made THEN you pushed me lol. Good job profii.

How many posts happened between my vote and my town read? Approx will do

I would think someone that was responsible in helping you make such a drastic change in stance on the leading wagon would be a town lean for you.

the point was that a significant number of posts happened between the event of me scum reading and then town reading.

The fact you refuse to acknowledge this makes me think you are burying the facts to cast aspersions in my direction. Coupled with the fact you don’t respond or acknowledge any explainations I post, you simply cast another aspersion makes me think you are highly suspect

[profii]

The irony is not lost on me

[profii]

I need to read your reads on the players you mentioned. I’m playing football again so it’s a job for later but I do plan to do it. Better not place a lynch vote rn in case the target gets involved in a drama for the next 4 pages or so

[profii]

As I said quote and I’ll comment on any post, yours or others

Without looking back and just responding to what you put there

- you said I expected a lynch, as I said in response to Jodaxq bringing up what I think you are referring to - my comment meant let’s do 1 scum at a time, not I’m tunnelling and expecting death.

I probably didn’t comment on me bussing havo because I don’t know how to theoretically answer something I know has 0% chance possibility so I filed that under not credible enough for response


If you want me to answer a chumba post then quote and I’ll do it - he isn’t scum reading me afaik whereas I need to convince you, by lynching me, that’s a mistake

[profii]

It was self deprecating if anything


I said I’d read Tchill reads based on who he’d look at when I flip town. He said maybe Havo, maybe eth0s, maybe a lurker. This is kinda loose but if I flip town there are no associations between me and anyone else, eth0s and havo didn’t ask me to get involved in that barney and I wasn’t particular motivated to initially. I don’t know how me town makes them scum because their play hasnt really been directed at me. I’m missing the link I have to say :-/

[profii]

not known - what’s your eth0s read ?

[profii]

Profli’s vote on havo and expecting him to be lynched can feasibly be one of 3 options

I feel I need to re-iterate this is a position that tchill has inserted into the game.

I did not expect Havo to be lynched. I voted because if you asked me what was memorable about Havos play in the last game, I would say the multiple quickhammers.

Havo made a post that he had pegged eth0s - during the point where Havo vs eth0s was in full swing. This appeared to me that he was reaching for something he briefly mentioned in the last game, to try and manipulate players into believing he is an eth0s expert and we should follow him. I absolutely don't think havo pegging eth0s was a dominant part of the last game so this post rang alarm bells.

The expected to be lynched part, I believe comes from a post I made where the actual meaning was 'lets hunt 1 scum at a time, lets not introduce pre-conf bias and let the scum know where we are looking, they will only use this information to manipulate our thinking via selecting a particular night kill if we give too much away'

I would suggest, my anticipating scum moves is something I regularly do, if you are looking for characteristic traits of my play.

[profii]

no point searching for another scum now because they will use our discussion to fiddle the night kills/actions/etc.

I think I'm on Havo. I think Chumba should just vote and Havo can Havo himself

that's the post I refer to - as per the end of the 1st sentence - I am mainly concerned about revealing our hand to the scum.

the latter part, was after I had been away and come back. I was still happy to be voting havo at that point and thought it was a good lynch so I made the joke about havo havo'ing. at that point I would have been fine if that's where we went.

[profii]

@Chumba

EVERYONE KNOWS WHAT YOUR TUNNELING GARBAGE LEADS TOO!!!!!!!!!

WE HAVE ALL SEEN IT BEFORE AND ITS WRONG 90% OF THE TIME!!!!!!!!

100% OF THE TIME ON DAY 1.

I'd be interested to see how the longer standing members view these statistics.
Personally, I've only played like 3 games (2 with Chumba/DH), and it's 50/50...


in this game:
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=74394
Derpy (Chumba alt) tunnelled Mulch, although we didn't lynch him on D1 - it turned out Derpy was a serial killer and could NK Mulch anyone, where it turned out, the tunnel was justified.

But then in 'the last game' Chumba tunnelled I think it was taco's slot, which turned into Mulch again ironically, mulch shit posted and got lynched (but was town)


So, yeah, literally 50% success in my experience which is some way to explaining my leniency on chumba, in the game I linked, I just did not get what set the tunnel off, but it turned out to be right so I'm just thick

[profii]

@Chumba

EVERYONE KNOWS WHAT YOUR TUNNELING GARBAGE LEADS TOO!!!!!!!!!

WE HAVE ALL SEEN IT BEFORE AND ITS WRONG 90% OF THE TIME!!!!!!!!

100% OF THE TIME ON DAY 1.

I'd be interested to see how the longer standing members view these statistics.
Personally, I've only played like 3 games (2 with Chumba/DH), and it's 50/50...


in this game:
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=74394
Derpy (Chumba alt) tunnelled Mulch, although we didn't lynch him on D1 - it turned out Derpy was a serial killer and could NK Mulch anyone, where it turned out, the tunnel was justified.

But then in 'the last game' Chumba tunnelled I think it was taco's slot, which turned into Mulch again ironically, mulch shit posted and got lynched (but was town)


So, yeah, literally 50% success in my experience which is some way to explaining my leniency on chumba, in the game I linked, I just did not get what set the tunnel off, but it turned out to be right so I'm just thick

Well I go way back with Chumba. He was notorious for being wrong on our other site.

how many games have you played together here, where that would help us see some evidence that your point isn't hyperbole.

[profii]

Havo.
Chumba.
Chickadee.
Eth0s.

Claim now.
The last one to claim from the most scummy players of you gets my Day 1 vote.
VOTE: Chumba
And as long as Chumba does not claim my vote stands there.

wtf

VOTE: Not Known

why are we role fishing 4 people simultaneously.

[profii]

Havo.
Chumba.
Chickadee.
Eth0s.

Claim now.
The last one to claim from the most scummy players of you gets my Day 1 vote.
VOTE: Chumba
And as long as Chumba does not claim my vote stands there.

wtf

VOTE: Not Known

why are we role fishing 4 people simultaneously.

There is at least one scum in Havo/eth0s/chumba/chickadee. Likely two. Maybe even three.
Three of them have told us all things that do not add up(Havo, Eth0s and Chumba). Havo and eth0s were on a 1v1. Chickadee intervened. Chumba tried to.
Something is really wrong here. I have the feeling that one of Havo and eth0s is definitely scum, and that one of the later is also scum trying to defuse a 1v1 with scum. Of these two Chumba is the more interesting candidate, because their attempt was not as in the open as the one of chumba.
I think we even should consider a massclaim for those four right now, because it nails down scum in these four to an early claim, and that can be very dangerous for scum in some circumstances. It also forces scum to clear scummy (strong)power role claims there via nightkill to prevent them from getting night info that clears them and incriminates scum.

fair does, I missed that, apologies UNVOTE: not known 15[/vote]

that's quite a cheeky tactic and makes sense, I don't usually see the positive outcome of a mass claim but I like that.

out of interest, given the involvement of tchill in the dramasphere/lynchpool whatever you want to call it, is there a particular reason you haven't included him?

[profii]

argh I'm so bad at bb code these days - all the forums I post on have GUI reply boxes these days

UNVOTE: Not Known 15

[profii]

I’m curious as to what you think I’ve said that hasn’t added up?

You three have accused each other to make misleading statements, to mischaracterize actions... What you have said does not add up with what Havo said. Which strongly suggests that someone is scum there. Not all of you can be scum, so it is possible that you are belonging to the town in that bloc.

I’ve already PROVEN my accusations against havo. If you honestly think I haven’t the burden of proof lies on you to show where I haven’t. I honestly don’t think you can though because I have proven havo manipulated the ethos post and I have proven havo lied about me being a better player. He even later admits that I do tunnel as town which is basically proving me right.

After you do that.

Please explain how having almost half the player list claiming their roles day 1 is beneficial to town. We already have 2 VT claims and you want 4 more claims.

The more you use the phrase like PROVEN the more I think a policy lynch would be valid here. You PROVED my theory that Taco was false and he rolled town. eth0s even came in at the end and said they killed him for a probable mislynch which is exactly what you PROVED false.

I like your style of play and I've seen it get results, but you've made your point now.

[profii]

out of interest, given the involvement of tchill in the dramasphere/lynchpool whatever you want to call it, is there a particular reason you haven't included him?

Yes. They were not involved in the 1v1 discussion until it got defused(not fully, eth0s still scumreaded Havo for a bit). They were involved in the grammatics fight, fair point. I wouldn't fight against their inclusion in the claim group but the bigger it becomes the worse it is- we don't want to see all our PR's in that group. Or help scum to find out the remaining PR's.

fair point, I don't think your plan will fly with the group or the people you wish to claim but I still think its a clever idea.

I don’t get how the person who made this post

with 2 VT claims already been made we cannot afford more claims this early, to protect our power roles we cannot keep putting people under claim pressure and then backing off.

Now wants 4 more people to claim.

I see your point but I think the idea is the 4 identified players have a high chance of flipping at least 1 scum, which you must agree with based on your havo stuff, so the idea is to trap these specific dudes. I think that also reduces the risk of requiring future claims as we have something to work with.

[profii]

out of interest, given the involvement of tchill in the dramasphere/lynchpool whatever you want to call it, is there a particular reason you haven't included him?

Yes. They were not involved in the 1v1 discussion until it got defused(not fully, eth0s still scumreaded Havo for a bit). They were involved in the grammatics fight, fair point. I wouldn't fight against their inclusion in the claim group but the bigger it becomes the worse it is- we don't want to see all our PR's in that group. Or help scum to find out the remaining PR's.

fair point, I don't think your plan will fly with the group or the people you wish to claim but I still think its a clever idea.

I don’t get how the person who made this post

with 2 VT claims already been made we cannot afford more claims this early, to protect our power roles we cannot keep putting people under claim pressure and then backing off.

Now wants 4 more people to claim.

I see your point but I think the idea is the 4 identified players have a high chance of flipping at least 1 scum, which you must agree with based on your havo stuff, so the idea is to trap these specific dudes. I think that also reduces the risk of requiring future claims as we have something to work with.

Didn't you say you town read eth0s, Havo, and Chumba? Why are you okay with this then?

the play is a clever idea - I think it is an interesting way of trapping scum if one thinks scum is in that lynch pool

I said I like his idea as an out of the box way of trapping potential scum- sooooo many players on this site play mafia by reading the manual and scum read people who don’t, so I found his plan quite refreshing and had a very logical way of describing how the unusual play of claim pool might benefit us - not sure how new the guy is to this site, I’d be highly interested to know if this ties in with his meta.

I’ve very carefully not commented on my reads because I still think it’s unlikely that scum are in that claim pool


I do take chumba point on board that we’ve already had some claims which I admit I had forgotten - I can remember HWS but I can’t rememeber the other one. Obviously NK was involved in eliciting the HWS claim so that is a negative

[profii]

Definitely doesn't look good for nk15. That's for sure.

This sentence does not advance the town play. It's commentary fluff. It makes you more suspicious.

What do you think about my claim proposal?

Why the hell would scum shout mass claim on day one?

Why the hell would a towny shout mass claim on day one?

That's what I'm thinking.

Mass claim =/= claim pool

Imo...

[profii]

profii, you have been jumping in and defending Not Known for most of the thread. Have an explanation for that?

No, didn’t even realise

[profii]

I’m really struggling to read Not Known

He had some weird scum reasons early on - like lack of reaction scum indicative etc- that’s bad
He gets involved in the drama bit and finds some fairly valid reads when he isn’t tunnelling HWS
I liked the principle of trying to get the scum pool tied to early claims but I’m sure we willl ire out a lot of VTs- I don’t agree with his scum pool though, particularly his reason for chickodee and not tchill being there

I’d really like to vote him just to get some info via flips and move on but I just think it’s a bad move rn

[profii]

UNVOTE:

Reading back, I'm thinking Eth0s is just bad town.


This 1v1 going on right now is really making it hard for me to get into this game though. Can y'all stop with all this "last game" shit? Not everyone was there. It should not play this bit a role within the context of this game. Personally, I don't have the interest level to go read games I wasn't a part of (and it's not required to do so), and therefor you're bringing in information that is not everyone has access to. Read each other this game. A comment or two about "such and such feels a bit different than usual" is fine. But it feels like you two are really relying heavily on this. Please stop.


Now I'm gonna go back and ISO tchill and nk15. Tchill because he was my other scum read, and nk because he's gotten a lot of attention.

Noted. Understand completely. I’m done with it.

Havo says, followed by a sharp sigh of relief.

Stop. Havo is being a good sport here. The antagonizing is not appreciated. You've had your 1v1, now go focus elsewhere for a while.

vt in chumba too

why did you feel the need to mention you think i am a vt?

I think the whole thing was town vs town vs town. It wasn’t a random softclaim

??? How does that actually answer the question?

He's saying that he wasn't saying vanilla town.

he was adding on another "versus town" in Chumba.


Pedit: I did, and it's not off the table for me, but I'd like to ask some questions before blindly jumping in on the wagon, especially considering I'm currently voting Tchill, and Tchill just switched.

vt in chumba too

why did you feel the need to mention you think i am a vt?

I think the whole thing was town vs town vs town. It wasn’t a random softclaim

I get you now think it is t v t v t, but that doesn't explain why you felt the need to point out you think I am a vt

He never said he thought you vanilla town.



This entire game is under some semantically challenged curse.

not know - i felt that i would categorise this quote in the same pigeon hole as the other one.

eth0s and havo were getting needlessly heated. the latter argument was going the wrong way and chickodee was happy to just tidy it up.

it does no harm to anyone and sends the game in the right way. It's just helpful, NAI to me

[profii]

I'm really struggling with this game. I am happy to play and stick with it etc, I am just really struggling to get firm scum reads. I am not playing with the same players 2x in a row again !

anyway, to try and sort that out, I'm re-reading the drama thing. Quick summary.

Spoiler: summary

Page 12- eth0s is mudslinging and baiting Havo
Page 13- sheep plants the seed of the town slip/bad town player thing then retreats pretty quickly as the mudslinging carries on. 312 is a havo post i dispute - the debate then moves towards 'the last game'

So far, I feel eth0s is bringing a lot of reliance on meta, this is NAI, but just means he is going to get things wrong. I also still agree with Chumba that Havo feels different here, maybe coming out of his shell more in this game.

Page 14, sheep pokes the hornets nest and calls it t/t - at this point i wondered, is a scum bud trying to find an exit but brassherald has landed pretty town so guess not.

i just saw my post saying i dont know what to make of eth0s breakdown- i still feel like the mud is coming from eth0s and havo is relatively calm so far...

page 15, the chumba grammar thing is introduced.

page 16,chick comes in and calls eth0s bad town - i agree here so far.
Havo also starts to extend the olive branch in response to chick.

page 17. chick provides some reads on tchil which i think are valid.
and pushes the havo olive branch/scalds eth0s

404 eth0s attacks chickodee for essentially not helping to lynch havo

There is a bit where havo responds to a push on the grammar thing from chumba. i think this is NAI, its chumba meta and he will be as accurate as anyone elses day 1 reads... probably not very.

tchill then appears and seems to go on a defense mission on behalf of havo. but then in 419 appeals to havo to consider town!eth0s.


page 18- osuka appears and makes some fairly sensible assessments.

right, i'm tired and i think ive seen enough to make some judgements.

if anyone in the drama was scum, i'd say most likely is chumba. I think his is using his meta to try and mask a push.
VOTE: chumba

I think this clears havo, or we can WIFOM some mad gambit that after having eth0s sling mud at Havo, scum!chumba decided to throw more mud at scum!havo just to really mess with us. doubt it though.

You could possibly argue that chick or sheep were also trying to help havo retreat out of the drama, but based on their play i dont think they are scum.

[profii]

Profli. When I flip town will you vote havo?

yeah i suppose my post wasnt clear. I think you and havo are on opposite teams and I'm really stuck for who to go for.

[profii]

Chumba, lets say you are right and Havo flips red.

Where do you go with Tchill?

[profii]

Chumba, I disagree with you on the manipulation point - it will be quicker and easier if we dont go into this.

I do however agree that Havo is different in this game, he has already posted more in this game than the entire of the last 1 (110 here vs 85 there) - he had pressure for lolhammers and just ignored it. Here he admittedly had heat inflicted on him by eth0s & you, he dealt with it fairly calmly, had multiple offers to retreat and took one, this could be scum team work but let's concentrate on 1 scum at a time... the point is he previously ignored pressure in the last game where he was a VT.

He also made a claim in this game about pegging eth0s in the last game, i dont think he really pushed it so this seems like an odd misrep to me.


Now looking at you, apologies for counting your DH account in this but tough! in the serial killer game you got Mulch in a very similar way to your argument on Havo, some kind of manipulation that I disagree with (because I'm just not convinced) but that was a success. Then in the last game you Mulch came in and shitposted his way to death, which you tunneled.
To be fair, this is more like your succesfull tunnel but I'm not 100% sure I can be confident in it.

After reviewing the drama episode of this game, i can see why it comes down to you or havo, so on the balance of things and a bit more thought, I'm going to go Havo.

VOTE: Havo

[profii]

I weirdly feel like I'm in the same position as Chumba, i cant see many scum other than havo,- I am getting a few scum reads directed at me from others and I can see why because I have struggled to be decisive in this game. I think I'm pretty clear on Havo for today and i hope going in this direction kills at least 1 scum before i get lynched so i can go away thinking i helped a bit.

subject to no major events im think this is where ill stop now

[profii]

Profli. When I flip town will you vote havo?

yeah i suppose my post wasnt clear. I think you and havo are on opposite teams and I'm really stuck for who to go for.

[profii]

Chickadee - to address what you said about me / NK. I don’t see how I’m back peddaling on NK - I said I think he’s town, someone said nah we’re lynching him. I reviewed his iso and said sorry I’m certain.

If you had said backpedal where I moved from chumba to havo I’d say yeah it looks bad but as I mentioned I am struggling to get anything firm so I’ve been re-reading and re-reading

Up until there I can’t remember anything you’ve posted that I would dispute so given that little bit is way off the mark I thought I’d pick it out.

[profii]

Havo
Current post count this game: 111 (rn...)
Game 1982- role VT, complete after 5 days, postcount 85
Game 1972- role VT, complete after 6 days, post count 131
Game 1954- role 2 shot BP, complete after 4 days, post count 154
Game 1959- role good doctor, died after 2 days, post count 53


Havo is unusually posting a lot in this game. I’ve only played with him once but Chumba has noticed - I think this is a matter of juicy role = make the effort to post. Could be PR but I think scum

[profii]

an in depth look at his iso should change your opinion.

....further to last post especially when the main push on me is based on “you’ll see” lol

[profii]

Even though I think that might be aimed at chumba, the point is where are your facts and evidence tchill . Anything relating to me or chumba. You throw a lot of shade

[profii]

I cant get into a debate where you theorise that I'd be some kind of scum link to chumba. I know I'm town so to try and debate a scenario where I am scum just doesn't work for me. Anything I'd be posting would just be useless and misleading.

But this also goes against your argument for Havo posting so much - personally, I can't be bothered getting into because it just doesn't make sense to me. However, everyone is different so I'll give you that.

Now, your point about Havo looking like he will be lynched is rubbish. We've had wagons on Havo, Chumba, NK and none of them made it to a lynch. You can never really predict when the day 1 lynch will hammer.
I can re-iterate again that I wanted to seek 1 scum and not cause conf bias but you seem to wish to ignore that as well.


I think where me and you are now is where we were at the end of the last game - I slept on the debate and realised despite thinking you were wrong on some of the facts of the game, you were arguing your case so rigorously that you must have had town intentions and I moved to dunker. I feel like this is happening again. I get that you are scum reading me and I would guess you are unlikely to change your mind and that's fine. I think given the heat of the drama back in the teen-pages of this thread, would you get into

another

argument in the spot light if you were scum? Probably not.

I'm still thinking one of Havo + Chumba will flip scum. As I said I'm struggling to read this game well so I am not inclined to venture much further than that at this point. Especially with a few low content posters who could be scum avoiding the spotlight. Not saying they are but that is one reason I could be finding things tough. I'm getting a lot of town reads overall.

[profii]

This is just silly.

Havo is playing out a scenario where you are town. It is irrelevant to his role and not a slip at all

[profii]

I am glad this day is done

[profii]

Havo confirmed I’m town. Maybe that slip will get me NKd.

This makes no sense from a townies perspective who is convinced I’m scum.

If I’m scum I can kill you anyway.

Your statement confirms that I’M town.

That’s a slip on YOUR PART!

LMAO LMAO LMAO LMAO LMAO.

Vig if you’re there. Do your thing.

well if you were scum and killed him, you could blame the vig!

[profii]

man... profii and chumba are oozing scum and we really went with the nk lynch.

i hope im wrong and he's scum.

i just dont see scum asking for a weird mass claim day 1. i dont see it.

I think one of me and chumba will die, flip green and you’ll get pushed you know

[profii]

nope. shouldn't have lynched nk. Chumba is scum.

Agreed but not on chumba

[profii]

nope. shouldn't have lynched nk. Chumba is scum.

Agreed but not on chumba

quite funny how he's one of your 50/50 but not the scum one.

If havo somehow gets NK do we lynch chumba tomorrow?

[profii]

Quite possibly yes you are town

[profii]

What if it’s chumba

[profii]

Having to replace out for personal reason and calling it threatening is somewhat twisting the context

[profii]

Can we stop with twilight arguments about whether Chumba is threatening to replace out due to a possible personal issue? I mean, him having a life is not part of my read of him

Sadly it forms part of the evidence that tchil is stuck in a chumba tunnel at the moment. He is scum reading me but couldn’t even give my name when I said who do we lynch if chumba is nk’d

If he is saying we should disregard chumba for havo tunneling, by his logic we should also disregard tchill tomorrow

[profii]

What are the chances profii defended nk15 so when nk15 flipped town profii could say "told you so"

Seeing as I’m straight on the chopping block today & you posted this I’ve been waiting to do this for 2 days



Told you so


I might as well be an obnoxious gimp about this


I’ll be rereading the thread to see if I have a big scum lean on one of you lot that has just jumped straight on me. Odds are one scum will be in this little group that’s formed

[profii]

As I head out of my morning jog, I think see a mob of people ganging up on Not Known 15.
It looks like they about to fight.
I must be imagining things.

Not Known 15 has been lynched Day 1. He was a Vanilla Townie.

@Mod,

Is this one of those pics where there’s like 5 deadly Australian animals hiding in the brush? Lol

it looks like there is almost no sand in that picture, surely can’t be Australia

[profii]

Votecount 1.13

Not Known 15

(7): Jodaxq, Chickadee, osuka, eth0s, brassherald, Havo, Not Known 15

(LYNCH)

Havo

(3): HeWhoSwims, Chumba, profii

profii

(1): Nero Cain

Chumba

(1): Tchill13

Not Voting

(1): schadd_

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Deadline

: (expired on 2018-02-15 17:30:00)

Bit of VCA then.

I need to go back but I’m phone posting for now so I’m going to make some assumptions until I can check fo’ sho’

I saw the NK scum-pool play as town motivated and said so at the time, I need to check if this attracted a load of votes as a consequence. If it did, it hightens the chance that NK caused his own mislynch but, regardless, at the time, scum knew NK was town and knew it was a weird town play so I think there is a chance of at least 1 scum on the NK wagon

Namely -

Jodaxq, Chickadee, osuka,

Eth0s

, brassherald, havo,

not known

So the good news is that narrows it down to 5 as we know 2 alignments in that pool.

The obvious question to ask at this point is why Eth0s- by knocking down that lynch pool from 6 to 5, why help town? Well I think with 13 we could be looking at 2/3 scum so with 6 people off the lynch, minus 1 for each town player in that pool knowing their town makes the lynch pool 5 anyway.

So let’s say there could be 3 (I’m a noob, if you do 2 vs 11 please let me know ASAP) there could be 1 on 2 off, as the off pool is slightly bigger

I think the Eth0s kill could be a way of whittling down the drama pool from yesterday and directing us at those remaining - me, obviously. Chumba, havo, perhaps even tchill

This is a phone post - will go look for a theory when I grab my tablet in a min!

[profii]

It’s simple. Chumba wants me gone so bad because he knows I can read him. He’s scared to keep me in the game. Just look at our last game mini 1982. I had him pegged Day 1 as Hard town. It spooked him. So he’s tunneling me this game on some BS grammatical argument. That is so weak it’s literally laughable.

IM DONE WITH CHUMBA.

I WILL NOT ADDRESS YOU ANYMORE. PERIOD.

I've also mentioned I don't trust when people try to defend themselves by pointing at others and that seems to be what you are doing.

This is a painfully obvious PR Hunt for Not Known 15, guys. We definitely do not need claims from 6 people day 1.

He would have claims from almost half the people in the game, and then has a much better chance of hitting one of the power roles at night. Get out of this stupid Havo v. Chumba thing and vote Not Known. What more do we need?

And, would a PR even CC a fake claim Day 1? I feel like scum would welcome a 1 for 1 trade of a Goon for a PR. We should just be voting NK right now.

Okay, so, by my count, we have 4 votes on NK, 2 people saying they would be fine with NK lynch but not voting NK, Havo who indicated early he would quickhammer.

First, I guess I understand why Tchill and Chumba are not voting for NK right now.

Second, profii is in a category of his own for being the only person endorsing this mass claim from someone of whom I find he has been strangely protective.

Third, Chickadee has said no to the mass claim, but I would like to hear what she has to say other than it's a terrible idea. @Chickadee, are you against an NK lynch?

P-edit: Chumba, I just disagree with the top read here, I think. As I stated before I feel like this PR hunt rocketed NK to my top scum suspect, but I think this might be a reasonable minds may differ sort of thing right now.

I feel like this day 1 is just dragging along and is super bogged down in this chumba v. havo thing.

I still extend HOS to NK 15, and FOS to profii, but I want to move on from this bickering, so I will just vote for whichever of those two has more votes. I feel like both are probably town and this is useless, but whatever at this point whichever of them gets lynched is a "sanity lynch".

Chumba has more votes right now, I'll make it 5.
VOTE: Chumba

I think lynching NK is the right move, but I really want to end the arguments between Chumba and Havo at this point. So, I'm going back to the right move.

VOTE: Not Known 15

VOTE: NK15

I think it’s time to move forward.

This is L-1, people!

And, I agree, it's just about time to move on from this day 1.

And while we are on the topic of bad posts:

All I have to say now is that I ask you all to look back at the voting patterns at day 1 every time scum or town flip.
This Day 1 is very important. It will probably be the most important thing to catch scum except for guilty results.

Do not forget Day 1.

I really think this post is a big attempt to look like he's town, but it's totally useless. I am on board for an NK lynch now, then profii tomorrow unless we get any more information from the night.

First ISO I’ve looked at, don’t like any of he above

836- I feel like I justify all my reasons basing my actions on my thoughts. You may well contest my logic, as is your right but given this is my style, interesting to see your vote on me. No biggie, just pinged me

884 and 914 is throwing massive shade at NK here. I am going to stand by my conviction that NK was reeking town- I think he got lynched because he wasn’t playing by following the play book which always scares people on this site but I respect his alternative thinking. I know this will get me scum read but I prefer to say what I truly believe in than lie and say he was scummy just to fit in and try and get votes off me.

914 onwards - this looks badly like trying to find a mislynch that will stick, as I say first ISO so not reflected on those players in light of NKA but I thought those dudes were towny so this is bad to me

VOTE: brassherald


This may change as I work my way through ISOs but I think this is terrible!

[profii]

Quick read of the Schadd ISO and I don’t lime that his most significant analysis came in twilight. However, I did like it. Please post more

Nero next - caveat this with he had the flu- but even the latter stages of the ISO are what I’d call active lurking. However, quite significantly, Eth0s claimed to have something on Nero for day 2 and Nero died. I think scum probably thought they had a PR in eth0s rather than trying to frame Nero here

Not quite sure what Eth0s had planned there.

Consider Nero in my lynch pool for today

[profii]

Votecount 1.2

HeWhoSwims

(5): sheepsaysmeep, Nero Cain, Chumba, Tchill13, Not Known 15

sheepsaysmeep

(2): Jodaxq, eth0s

schadd_

(1): profii

eth0s

(1): Havo

Chickadee

(1): osuka

Havo

(1): HeWhoSwims

Not Voting

(2): Chickadee, schadd_

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

The question is, Chickadee, do we think scum are on the wagon?

Probably, I mean theres a statistically good chance. I'd need more content/interactions to really decide that.

I was going to do the bigger ISOs, except i dont like doing them in ISO as i get conf bias - so i tend to just re-read the thread for context.

i thought it was funny that my 2 initial scum reads were on this wagon. So I figure why not see what Chickodee says now

[profii]

The thing i want to know about the havo vs eth0s thing is that now we know town!eth0s. It started off with some petty insults more than any real scum reads being pushed.
why even bother letting him bait you like that

[profii]

If I subtract anything I know to be wrong from your iso- ie scum reads on me/NK//eth0s- there wasn’t a great deal remaining

[profii]

I mean I guess I shouldn't really care about a guy that was fence sitting hard on nk but it annoys me that your "scumread" on me today seems to have very little to do with me or my actions and mostly the words of another. Its very simplistic and lacks original thought.

It was the 2nd or 3rd iso I read based on knowing it was one of the shortest

I still need to properly sort the havo/chumba thing but I figured given the NK might be that thing I found between you and eth0s might be the reason for the kill, I don’t think we will make much progress right now so I left it for later

It’s not a huge scum read, more you are on my list subject to no one else being really scummy and knocking you off it... I’d just say hopefully you feel better and I look forward to more of your posts

[profii]

You got it

[profii]

Interesting that you are simple quoting your status so to speak and almost shutting down the discussion of comparing a wagon, that may well have scum on it and a lynch VCA that may well have scum on it

Obviously we don’t know either for sure but your shut down is concerning

[profii]

What are the chances profii defended nk15 so when nk15 flipped town profii could say "told you so"

Seeing as I’m straight on the chopping block today & you posted this I’ve been waiting to do this for 2 days



Told you so


I might as well be an obnoxious gimp about this


I’ll be rereading the thread to see if I have a big scum lean on one of you lot that has just jumped straight on me. Odds are one scum will be in this little group that’s formed

So you did know that NK was town?

I was pretty confident following his claim - pool thing he did that for towny reasons

[profii]

Profii is already throwing around a bunch of stuff and seeing what sticks. He's already given three different reasons for the eth0s kill.

Because I don’t actually know

[profii]

if there are 13 players is the usual thing 3 scum here?

We are down to 3v8 now

So kill me plus NK is 3v6 then if town do decide to sort out the chumba/havo thing it becomes 3v4 - that’s MyLo (or LyLo I’ve never grasped the difference, not the point)


The point is - if chumba and havo ends up being TvT scum have to do nothing to manipulate this game for the next 2 days.

I _think_ I’ve spotted the other mason, so there’s one player I wouldn’t NK if I was scum because obviously that narrows down the PR pool.


Obviously it’s early in the game but I feel like I need to give you all a kick to play this properly as we are heading for a loss quite quickly - all I will say is I’m not going to self hammer or anything like that - if you really think I’m scum go find some players to finish this wagon off because I’m all in saying I’m town - if you want to see my cards you better be willing to go all in on this because I know I come out on top.

That being said I’m going to be really gamey and UNVOTE: brassherald

There is no way any player replaces out of the easiest scum game ever because they can’t keep up.

VOTE: chickodee
That shutdown was terrible. Jodax seems stuck in a tunnel too which is weird for what little I’ve seen of her play.

[profii]

replace outs aren't AI i thought?

“I’m going to be really gamey”

Yes I know they are usually not but if that slot is scum and it was me I’d just lurk my way to victory the way this seems to be going

[profii]

HWS - it wasn’t a mass claim, it was a claim pool for want of a better word - yeah having 6 claims that day is bad but he clearly wanted to try and trap a likely scum within him the drama sphere

This is what I mean by people getting scared when players don’t follow the play book - everyone is going “ahhh role fishing bad” because they are so scared of encouraging it and getting scum read. NK clearly wasn’t bothered and was more interested in finding scum. Fair play to him I say and shame no one else can admit that. I’m being scum read anyway - there will almost certainly be scum pushing me so Why not finish the job off before chumba/havo start up again and maybe town will focus tomorrow on proper targets

[profii]

It was dumb I get it and nothing was ever going to come of it. To make the best of a bad situation, we can use anyone who voted for him on that basis as scum pool if he hadn’t have been lynched we could have used it as reaction test maybe but never mind

Either way, this doesn’t help us find scum

[profii]

Guys, didn't Chumba literally say there was a family emergency or at least something that needed his attention over an online game? Replace outs aren't AI as has been said and especially not this one. Even if it was supposed to be tactical then how's scum!chumba (scumba. hah.) even helping his own slot by leaving his replacement to solve all the problems?

The thing is we're not talking about Chumba's possible replace out. The comments today are in regards to profii saying sheep wouldn't have replaced out of this game if he were scum.

good to see someone can read.

[profii]

replace outs aren't AI i thought?

“I’m going to be really gamey”

Yes I know they are usually not but if that slot is scum and it was me I’d just lurk my way to victory the way this seems to be going

I just don't see how this is a good reason to override what you've seen from the rest of the game. There are so many different reasons sheep could have replaced out and a large majority of those have nothing to do with the game.

Sheep was permabanned for being underage

after the replace out happened.

He specifically specifically said he couldn’t keep up. If you are scum you don’t need to put in half the effort to own do. That is the reason I wrote it off as AI.

[profii]

I've laid out better cases for chumba and profii.

Chumbas argument on havo isn't even a case imo.

I'll wait for the lurkers to be replaced before moving on to day 3.

Your case seems to be based on the paranoia in your head and not the posts in this thread. You’re town though so

[profii]

havo is definitely scum, you guys just really need to trust me on this. Pretty sure tchill is also but I

know

havo is.

This is PURE manipulation.

Bolding the KNOW insinuates something, but he won’t say it so he can’t be held accountable.

Just like his BS threat to replace out.

It’s all manipulation.

is this a soft counter claim? I’ve never seen one of those before

[profii]

Tchil is town but easily the most liable to causing a mislynch

[profii]

Chumba and you have both made your points and no one seems to care enough to follow through by lynching either of you.

I don’t think that makes either of you liabilities.

Maybe time will apply the same logic to tchil, but we will see

[profii]

Well it is the one thing I can be sure of

[profii]

Describe how I am exactly the most liable to cause a mislynch without mentioning my case on you.

Chumba and you have both made your points and no one seems to care enough to follow through by lynching either of you.

I don’t think that makes either of you liabilities.

Maybe time will apply the same logic to tchil, but we will see

And I hate to say this but if I'm only liable to cause a mislynch because I'm pushing you then time won't fix it

so I have to justify that you are not causing a mislynch without mentioning your case on me, but you can use it to make your point


No fair



I feel like we are where we were at the end of the last game. I can see you are town, scum reading me with blinders on.

[profii]

You couldn't see I was town last time.

And it's your argument to make. You can say no fair like an 8 year old and be done with it though.

Remind me where my vote was again?

I’ll save you the time-

It started on you - sure, but I came round to you being town and voted Dunkers. I got eth0s wrong not you.

Why lie?

[profii]

My point was that stupid 1v1 feels like that stupid 1v1 because it’s TvT or at least I think so.

So I had a reason to reference that game in the context of what is happening here

[profii]

In the context of this game tell me why I'm such a liability at causing a mislynch.

Give me a reason that's not "well you're pushing me you're wrong"

OK...

Nero and chickadee you're on the right track imo.

1 tiny example.

Comparing you and chumba.

Chumba made his case and practically left it today...
You made you case and buddy 2 players. You are trying to elicit support for your mislynch. Chumba is putting it out there and doesn’t care if people follow (I think he knows he’s in a death tunnel)


That’s barely looking back

[profii]

I'm not lying. I don't remember you stating I was ever town at the end.

Once again you're not even talking about this game.

You kept coming up with "full proof" plans you never stated with certainty I was town. You stated with certainty it didn't matter if I was town.

1556 was where I pegged you as town, your reluctance to follow my foolproof plan put doubt in my mind

So I’m lock towning you here to stop that happening again

[profii]

I just want 3 examples from profii.

Looking forward to Chumbas response.

Schadd what are your reads on ppl? I don't have to have reasons.

Good to see you accept the first example and want to keep pushing for more so when I run out of reasons you can say you were right


We will stop that now then I think

[profii]

Chumba, I am going to explicitly and plainly ask you: do you have a guilty?

Role fishing

[profii]

So you did know that NK was town?

I was pretty confident following his claim - pool thing he did that for towny reasons

can you elaborate on those reasons and why they were townie again, if you remember

The point is - if chumba and havo ends up being TvT scum have to do nothing to manipulate this game for the next 2 days.

do you suppose that is likely or unlikely

if anyone ever tells you that replacing out is AI, just punch them square in the nose. that's the stupidest thing that some people regularly say on this website

anything AI is, by definition, an alignment tell. if you don't know the reason behind the fact that someone replaced out of a slot, how could you possibly infer alignment from that

i mean people will on occasion replace out for game related reasons in which case you can apply the same tone/motivation reading you can with any other post

the specific case of repping out for personal reasons is something you shouldn't try to read in that way tho

I keep forgetting schadd is in this game.

SCHADDINGTON BEAR COME OUT TO PLAAAAAYYY

yo

You’re town though so

oof

havo is definitely scum, you guys just really need to trust me on this. Pretty sure tchill is also but I

know

havo is.

This is PURE manipulation.

Bolding the KNOW insinuates something, but he won’t say it so he can’t be held accountable.

Just like his BS threat to replace out.

It’s all manipulation.

without making judgement on chumba's alignment this looks zuper convincingly like locked-in town

VOTE: profii

Schadd -

NK wanted to tie a players in the claim pool to an early claim, so they had to stick to it from day1 and making their potential for later manipulation limited. Role fishing bad, scum trapping good - albeit a weird tactic, town motivated.

- the 1v1, undecided, there are better targets today anyway...

- replace out, I’m not talking about chumba/personal reasons. Sheep said he couldn’t keep up- scum player doesn’t need to keep up with this town cluster fuck. I’ll go with a reason that fits what was posted. Sheep slot = town

[profii]

that's another pretty big oof

you are at two ooves right now

See past the fact you are out of game buds and accept she is scum.

[profii]

I'm not scum. I want to separate game mechanics from Chumba's death tunnel. If it's a no, that's all I need. I don't care what his role is. If it's a yes, that's all I need. I don't need to know what his role is.

Chickodee - I said it was a bad tactic but town motivated. It didn’t help find scum in he claim pool - all it did was to serve NK in proving hisntown motivations. So I absolutely can say that

Tchil - I’ve said I’ll stop now - I can see you are stuck in a tunnel on me, but I also know I have a number of scum reads across the board. So I’m not in a position to lead the group to a majority scum lynch - I accept no one will follow me at this point. So if I can stop one mislynchn,that’s 1 town not dying. So by just dragging your tunnel out all it does is make you look bad, I’m already at the bottom, you’re coming down with me so feel free to keep pressing me

[profii]

that's another pretty big oof

you are at two ooves right now

See past the fact you are out of game buds and accept she is scum.

ouch augh crap my bones hurt SO much right now

Sorry, sometimes the tr-oof hurts

[profii]

I'm going to say chickadee made a great point. Call it buddying if you will Idc.

Profii is being hypocritical on the role fishing.

I did say time will tell and you gave us number 2 there. Seeking allies on a mislynch

You’ll point out the 3rd all by yourself

You’re still town though. I’m positive!

[profii]

You didn't even respond to how hypocritical you're being.

If I do it descends into me saying you and chickodee are looking for reasons to scum read me rather than reading what I’m posting for what it is

[profii]

I don’t really want to say you can’t read, that seems mean... maybe you just refuse to read?

[profii]

That L-1

[profii]

I can’t even be bothered to wait for intent to hammer, I’ll just say I’m not role claiming- if you want to see my role, consider yourselves up against a poker player who is all in. The only way you get to see my cards is if you go all in too and if you just want to see my cards, that’s a bad bet.

[profii]

I am cool

[profii]

I can’t even be bothered to wait for intent to hammer, I’ll just say I’m not role claiming- if you want to see my role, consider yourselves up against a poker player who is all in. The only way you get to see my cards is if you go all in too and if you just want to see my cards, that’s a bad bet.

So you’re town but you refuse to claim?

How does that help town?

How sure are you that I’m not scum? That I’m not scum playing a PR to avoid night kills? If the answer is “damn sure” I accept your vote on me. If its anything else, you’re gambling

[profii]

HWS - I’m focusing on the part where NK genuinely wanted to trap scum to a claim. I am agreeing that if anyone jumped in and tried to claim, it would have been a backfire but as a sort of mis-fires reaction test, he had town intent.

[profii]

If you're a town PR then claim. A claimed PR is better than no PR. There could be a doctor or townie roleblocker.

Be better to make everyone gamble if I _am_ the protective role and I know I can’t be protected though eh

That’s not a claim btw

[profii]

I can play the game however I wish

[profii]

No when I said I think I’ve spotted Eth0s mason I definitely don’t think it’s me

[profii]

Yeah I’m happy to go that far

[profii]

I read through Chumba's ISO over lunch as well as the argument between Havo and eth0s.

VOTE: Havo

I can't confirm anything, but I think I saw something there.

Let’s doooooo it

VOTE: Havo

[profii]

I read through Chumba's ISO over lunch as well as the argument between Havo and eth0s.

VOTE: Havo

I can't confirm anything, but I think I saw something there.

Let’s doooooo it

VOTE: Havo

couldnt have been better timing.

I read through Chumba's ISO over lunch as well as the argument between Havo and eth0s.

VOTE: Havo

I can't confirm anything, but I think I saw something there.

THIS is why you dont wait when you can lynch scum. town tend to circle around to the same options over and over until scum decides which one actually goes through.

@Nero

Yeah look at that, you didn’t cause a mislynch after all!

[profii]

game is apathetically enjoyable for scum. I urge town to get in here and put some effort in or we will lose.

finally some common ground

[profii]

If you're a town PR then claim. A claimed PR is better than no PR. There could be a doctor or townie roleblocker.

Be better to make everyone gamble if I _am_ the protective role and I know I can’t be protected though eh

That’s not a claim btw

"if i am the protective role"

So you definitely believe chumba is the investigative?

I’ve no idea what he is. Sure he tunnels, but he doesn’t usually spell his case out as clearly as he did when he linked all the individual posts - I usually don’t understand some of chumbas logic that sets him off but this time I do & he even went the extra mile to lay out all the posts and such

Plus I think havo is playing a totally different game to his town game whereas you are playing the same


I’m phone posting on a 3 hour train journey so I am struggling to go back through the thread rn

[profii]

cherry picking.

I said the exact same thing in 1171 - feel+f kick on that post and read that paragraph

[profii]

Ctrl+f “kick” not feel

[profii]

I told you, if you are certain I’m scum... Push my lynch. I won’t claim but I’m not the mason.

[profii]

I believe chumba is just decisive

I’m sure he said he can be wrong at some point. I assume his certainty began on day 1 where he had no info so... investigator ? Probs nah

[profii]

You’d be better off not putting words in my mouth.

I’ll say if he was investigator or not, he would probably behave in the same manner towards Havo given that he decided on day 1 prior to info lynch


Although now you ask and I think about it, he did make a claim on day 1 in a previous game so he is liable to an early claim. So with the protection role a mystery, I suppose we could turn this into follow the cop. Given how disastrously town seem to be doing so far, that would be a good way to salvage the game


So in conclusion, I have no idea but kinda hope he is

[profii]

Brass ik it seems like i may have gotten in a tunnel or two.

From your eyes do you think my push on profii for cherry picking responses and ignoring questions is justifiable?

I do. If he does something, he should be able to explain it, and I'd promote sharing of information.

I believe chumba is just decisive

I’m sure he said he can be wrong at some point. I assume his certainty began on day 1 where he had no info so... investigator ? Probs nah

I think part of what is selling it for me is that he's switched from day 1 saying that he doesn't believe Havo will flip town to 100% he's scum, plus what I think could be crumbing.

Anyone with meta on chumba know if he would manipulate the people who like to spot breadcrumbs by doing that specifically after N1 to push his tunnel?

Selfish motivations but maybe not scummy

[profii]

And I thought we were starting to get along

[profii]

I believe he is the investigative.

i believe chumba is stupid enough to do exactly what he's done as a VT. Due to meta and experience with the player. He very well could be the investigative and i'll vote havo as soon as he hard claims.

At least I’m clear on your stance!

[profii]

I did say I hope meaning I hope we can play follow the cop...

So in conclusion I have no idea. Apparently the same as you

If he is the cop, I guess no harm in claiming because doctor can help us play follow the cop.

I don’t think he will lie but I think he might leave us in doubt with another “I

know

”

[profii]

Depends on what he posts

[profii]

I would like a hard claim at this point, but I think I saw crumbing in his iso.

Chumba won’t claim. Lol.

Because he’s lying.

He’s scum and if by some crazy miracle he’s not.

Then he’s DEFINITELY SCUM MVP this game.

Scum MVPs definitely get called out day 2

[profii]

I'm not scum. I want to separate game mechanics from Chumba's death tunnel. If it's a no, that's all I need. I don't care what his role is. If it's a yes, that's all I need. I don't need to know what his role is.

Chickodee - I said it was a bad tactic but town motivated. It didn’t help find scum in he claim pool - all it did was to serve NK in proving hisntown motivations. So I absolutely can say that

Tchil - I’ve said I’ll stop now - I can see you are stuck in a tunnel on me, but I also know I have a number of scum reads across the board. So I’m not in a position to lead the group to a majority scum lynch - I accept no one will follow me at this point. So if I can stop one mislynchn,that’s 1 town not dying. So by just dragging your tunnel out all it does is make you look bad, I’m already at the bottom, you’re coming down with me so feel free to keep pressing me

This is at least the second time you've accused someone of being "stuck in a tunnel" on you. I wonder why that is?

profii also has 1 scum candidate in hav but has 2 people pinned as town, me and chumba, even though from his pov we are playing scummy.

This is a perfect example of why I think you are playing bad in this game. I’m allowed to make whatever decision I want on whoever I want for whatever reasons I want. I can share as much or as little of those reasons at my discretion

You know this, but tell the group I’m wrong because the way YOU see things, means I should see it that way too.

Not how this game works.


I’ll be at a computer today so subject to my workload I’ll be re-going through day 1. I’ll be trying to ignore Tchill as much as possible from here on in because I’m happy he’s town and all he does is say I’m scum so there is no point interacting with him unless I need to tell the group he has done something to change my town read. (Which I’m doubtful)

[profii]

I go from not liking how he opened the day to not liking his rushing a Profii lynch to thinking his posts are dense and manipulative to reiterating my scum read on said slot. Tell me what part doesn't make sense.

When I read this I agreed with your progression and it seemed natural so consider yourself out of my lynch pool

Maybe me messing with tchil has caused this vote but at least I sorted you from it... every cloud.

[profii]

Actually I’ll adjust my tchill position: I’ll respond to sensible questions.

He asked where do I sit on chumba following his post. (And obviously he didn’t hard claim)

So the main thing from Chumba was “please play properly” - if the current wagons flipped scum, I’d say Chumba was trying to get us to resort the game and come up with alternative conclusions - this could be a scum mislead however the wagons are me, so not the case and Havo who we have the cop doubt over


Town read to Chumba

[profii]

VOTE: havo

Phone posting, more to come after footy... give me a couple hours

at this point in the game there was no reason to believe havo wouldn't be lynched. his wagon had momentum and there was nothing against anyone else.

no point searching for another scum now because they will use our discussion to fiddle the night kills/actions/etc.

I think I'm on Havo. I think Chumba should just vote and Havo can Havo himself

profii's first post back reads as agitation imo. agitation havo wasn't lynched yet because there was "no point" in discussing other players. In discussing a good amount of players that hadnt provided meaningful content. "no point" in taking more stances to lessen the content we can go back and look at later game.

he wanted havo lynched very badly and very quickly. So if you'll read the post i quoted earlier with this in mind it seems to me he expected havo to be lynched by the time he got back to the thread.

here's the foundation of my profii case.

to put the quote and defence in 1 easy to read post for everyone:

In defence of 464 that meant: let's avoid pre conf bias. Not town please tunnel havo.

In defence of voting Havo. I'm trying to sort the chumba/havo thing, I've said why I lean town on Chumba & I like his case.

[profii]

Just to make a point about what Tchil is calling cherry picking:

Spoiler: cherrypicking

The more I think about it, the more I think the play by Profii to bring up the replace out was a really good play. I had no way to respond to it and his school buddy Nero has already been pushing me hard.

I'm guessing that Schadd is the last scum but I'm not sure. Anyway, I'll be here just avoiding prods unless I'm directly addressed. Eth0s is a good player and I'm looking forward to talking with him in the dead chat.

I really dislike this post. Profii brings up the replace out as a town argument, and you say it's a good play but you don't have a response? What are you even saying?

Although I'm referenced, this isn't directed at me. No point responding.

Profii has been opportunistic as hell.

Profii is TRYING to look towny

I'm with you 100% on this

I have to think this is also opportunistic, because Jodaxq is following what I know to be a wrong case by tchill on me.

I'm not scum. I want to separate game mechanics from Chumba's death tunnel. If it's a no, that's all I need. I don't care what his role is. If it's a yes, that's all I need. I don't need to know what his role is.

Chickodee - I said it was a bad tactic but town motivated. It didn’t help find scum in he claim pool - all it did was to serve NK in proving hisntown motivations. So I absolutely can say that

Tchil - I’ve said I’ll stop now - I can see you are stuck in a tunnel on me, but I also know I have a number of scum reads across the board. So I’m not in a position to lead the group to a majority scum lynch - I accept no one will follow me at this point. So if I can stop one mislynchn,that’s 1 town not dying. So by just dragging your tunnel out all it does is make you look bad, I’m already at the bottom, you’re coming down with me so feel free to keep pressing me

This is at least the second time you've accused someone of being "stuck in a tunnel" on you. I wonder why that is?

I'm not sure who other than Tchill this means, I have checked my ISO and still can't find it. Happy to go into this if you clarify but to be fair I'd usually just not bother responding which I guess is coming across as cherry picking.

I can’t even be bothered to wait for intent to hammer, I’ll just say I’m not role claiming- if you want to see my role, consider yourselves up against a poker player who is all in. The only way you get to see my cards is if you go all in too and if you just want to see my cards, that’s a bad bet.

I cringed reading this post. This is just awful.

I'm one of those genius before my time types. Don't panic, all will be revealed.

I read through Chumba's ISO over lunch as well as the argument between Havo and eth0s.

VOTE: Havo

I can't confirm anything, but I think I saw something there.

I read through Chumba's ISO over lunch as well as the argument between Havo and eth0s.

VOTE: Havo

I can't confirm anything, but I think I saw something there.

Let’s doooooo it

VOTE: Havo

Wtf is this? "I think I saw something there" is just about the worst argument in this thread. Think about that.

I'll be reviewing day 1 so I guess I'll provide more later. Again, this placeholder type of response is really a waste of time so I would typically ignore this post until I get time to do a full day 1 review. Even though I wouldn't go back and dig out this quote and specifically answer it, I would imagine my day 1 review would probably answer the particular question. Or we can call it cherry picking to make a scum case... whatever.

I am completely uninvested in his game because of tunnels and running around in circles. :/

Yep. It made my catch up very uninteresting.

Yeah this game sucks, but I don't really need to fuel the negativity any further, so again I typically wouldn't reply.

Not a ton has changed for me. The TChill v Profii 1v1 really only enhanced my reads on the both of them.

Profii is still my number one.
The Chumba soft claims likely needs to be cleared up. I could get behind putting Chumba to L-1.
I like what I've seen from HWS in the recent pages.
Nero's progression on TChill doesn't feel natural. It seems overly aggressive.
Would like to see more from Osuka and Schadd. I don't think Osuka has posted anything original.

in order:
-me:fine
-chumba: I've made my point, i don't need to repeat myself
-HWS: agreed, I know he fell out with NK so I'm interested to see that.
-Nero's progression on TChill looks ok to me. This fuels my thought that Jodaxq is perhaps sheeping Tchill onto me which is why i think i put her in my scum pool earlier as there have been repeated signs of this from my perspective.
-Osuka: could post more, happy with what I've seen so far.
-Schadd: really needs to post more.

So there you go, a full and complete response.

I am interested to know why most people are saying the NK claim thing was scummy but other than me, the only person defending him is Tchill.

[profii]

Intent.

some do it and go here tomorrow please - or Havo.

I told you all to be sure so 1 of you is scum.

[profii]

"I told you all to be sure so one of you is scum"-profii

"I can play however I like"-profii

I guess nobody else can play however they like.

Course they can

I just said be sure I’m scum when you lynch me

So tomorrow. Question everyone who lynched me and insist on a reason, they were sure


Given this lynched died down and got a 2nd wind, there is almost certainly scum here

[profii]

He's posted twice since intent.

No claim.

refer to 1282

[profii]

1282 caused the uncertainty to nerf the wagon momentum for a bit. Note the players that are uncertain, then apply the bold...

"I told you all to be sure so one of you is scum"-profii

"I can play however I like"-profii

I guess nobody else can play however they like.

Course they can

I just said be sure I’m scum when you lynch me

So tomorrow. Question everyone who lynched me and insist on a reason, they were sure


Given this lynched died down and got a 2nd wind, there is almost certainly scum here

[profii]

Sigh

See you in the dead thread

[profii]

We’re you sure I’m scum?

[profii]

Minus that ‘ stupid phone

[profii]

That might be an issue

[profii]

That might be an issue

If u do flip town, I’ll say that it’s the second game out of 2 that I could not town read you when you were town.

Tchill was the scab I just had to pick at when I knew I should have just left it

[profii]

I learnt a lot in that game, despite causing issues.

I thought Jodaxq was really obvious scum from quite early on, the others I couldn't really place.

[profii]

& as per the dead thread, the mason link was highly obvious however I have played a few games with eth0s recently which I think helped me spot that perhaps.

[profii]

Can’t say I enjoyed it but I still think most of the players in this game are good and would definitely play with them again.

same - but - doing 2 in a row with a lot of you probably messed with a few heads... certainly mine

[profii]

By the way HWS, good luck with Med School.

Thanks so much!

And honestly I think I'd have TR'd Joda if I were town... idk why but I didn't really see most of the scum arguments.

it was a meta thing for me. In a previous game Jodaxq saved a meltdown slot by replacing in and being really sound and logical.

then her reads on me were stretchy to me, but I couldn't really push that because I was in such a 1v1 with TChill.

Obviously I have reflected on my play and realised the way to deal with pressure is not by belittling Tchill (or whoever is apply that pressure )

[profii]

I didn't really know how to convince you I was town. I am working on this skill!

[profii]

yeah I'll probably just ignore you if I think that's happening

[profii]

yeah I'll probably just ignore you if I think that's happening

i don't think ignoring is the best way to deal with the situation.

Some of the arguments for scum!me seemed like contrived stupidity so i would feel challenged to give them a sensible response. I’ll work on that but no promises

[profii]

My man you did softcrumb a guilty on Havo or at least some sort of pr

Yea that was naughty

[profii]

My advice to Chumba would be don’t 100% anything unless there is some kind of confirmation. I would say with hindsight it’s easy to see some players you had a 100% read on weren’t that role or whatever so if you put “the other” possibility in your world view then as the game progresses you might think to yourself so and so is 90% scum but as time progresses, another player has come in and gone 80% and your first read might be at 60% - you can still say that you think those 2 players are likely to be scum but you are acknowledging the game often throws up crazy twists


Also, I know I’m referring to your other account, but that’s twice I’ve played with you and you’ve spotted a lie that I just couldn’t understand so try to be really clear or if the lie is subtle, maybe try not to give it so much credit as 100%


I don’t profess to be amazing at this game but from my perspective that’s the things I think would have a significant impact on your game

[profii]

Anyways thanks for the game everyone and especially Insanity. The dead thread was the cooler place to hang out though


‘Til we meet again