Mini Normal 1989: A Perfectly Normal Day -- Game Over

[Not Known 15]

VOTE: hws

[Not Known 15]

UNVOTE: HWS

[Not Known 15]

I'd at least want to make sure we are not lynching an Innocent Child or something like that. And I definitely do NOT want my RVS vote to be hammered without looking if it is still good. Catching up now.

[Not Known 15]

WARNING to all who partipiciate here: As long as Havo is here, treat any vote to L-1 as a hammer.

[Not Known 15]

I just want to do it properly.

Perhaps they'd like to get some info and reactions before quickhammering someone :')

That's your reaction to be threatened with a quickhammer?
And you have nothing else to contribute but that after this?
Perhaps you hope this will go away by sticking the head into the sand?
This seems to me like faked calmness.

I intend to put HWS at L-1 again

.

HWS, you are in high threat of being hammered.
Claim.

[Not Known 15]

I'm not trying to stick my head in the sand. I was responding to Havo who found it suspicious people were not joining an RVS(?) wagon and sorta expressing my dislike of that remark, as I just think quickhammering <24 into a game is crap. Other than that there's not much to talk about.

Claim is Vanilla Town.

This does not look like town responding to a lynch threat.
This is fake.
VOTE: HeWhoSwims

[Not Known 15]

in what way

what is town supposed to say

Town is supposed to:
bring reads on someone else
be angry to be threatened with the hammer this early
try to partipiciate positively in general

Nothing of that applies to HWS.

[Not Known 15]

I'm just saying nk15 looks like he's trying to look really towny

I am not really a fan of him giving us a warning about havo hammering, and then him putting somebody to l-1.

I warned HWS that I wanted to put them up at L-1, their reaction was bad, their claim was vanilla, I scumread them...
This hasn't changed- I'd support a HWS lynch right now. That does

not

conflict with my warning.
If someone is at L-1 you normally give the threatened person and everyone else with a potential result time to intervene(via role claim)
It's day 1 so no one has a result yet. HWS claimed. If HWS would have been at L-1 at that point I would have hammered.

[Not Known 15]

Town is supposed to:
bring reads on someone else
be angry to be threatened with the hammer this early
try to partipiciate positively in general

Nothing of that applies to HWS.

all of this is false. I literally just completed a game where the town doctor was threatened with a lynch and was lynched and he didn't do any of those things.

what people have told me over and over again on my other accounts and I never really listened applies here.

Not everyone is going to play the way you expect them to. Just because somebody plays different to your expectations doesn't make them scum.

nothing hws is alignment indicative and if you say it is you are lying.

I said town is supposed to.
If HWS is someone like Not Mafia(the player that didnt claim 2-shot doc in your last game, not cooperative, badly readable, and otherwise anti-town(and also not really interested into winning and partipiciating positively))

then I see no reason not to lynch them Day 1. After all, you don't want to have such players in LYLO anyways, and they wont catch the nightkill unless they are a power role, and HWS claimed vanilla

. So yes, they could be:
scum that tried to fake calmness
A Vanilla Townie with an anti-town playstyle
Scum with an anti-town playstyle.
That's a good reason to lynch them Day 1.

[Not Known 15]

So I disagree with NK15's point that town should be angry about lynch pressure at this stage - if you are claiming VT.

Exactly. VTs don’t care if they are lynched.

He’s either actually a Vt or he’s scum claiming one and we have nothing so far to say which is which.

So I disagree with NK15's point that town should be angry about lynch pressure at this stage - if you are claiming VT.

Yes, it is reasonable to assume that vanilla townies are not angry about people wanting to bring someone at L-1.
But that is not all what happened. Someone told everyone of us that they would

quickhammer

them. Worse, they told us that they were fully content with quicklynching them based on zero actual scumreads. That should normally gain a stronger reaction than what happened.
But what is more damning is the total lack of useful partipiciation by HWS. All what we have is defense, fluff, RVS... but no case on anyone else, except Havo, right after I called them on not producing reads, and that one

was a fake interpretation of the posts of Havo

.

[Not Known 15]

I mean the game hasn’t even been open 2 irl days yet and you are ready to lynch the first wagon that formed. An rvs wagon because he didn’t get mad?

I see less town motivation in your actions over his. It’s too early to tell if he’s scum or town and it’s definitely too early to tell if his play is going to be a liability if he is town.

This is a misinterpretation.
If their calmness would have been the ONLY reason for a scumread, that would have been not enough; I would NOT have put the vote back.
But they also were not producing reads in spotlight.

[Not Known 15]

in what way

what is town supposed to say

Town is supposed to:
bring reads on someone else
be angry to be threatened with the hammer this early
try to partipiciate positively in general

Nothing of that applies to HWS.

There's almost nothing to go on for me imo aside from a few random votes and Havo's weirdish suspicion. And I'd honestly be irritated if anyone were to get hammered this quickly.

I don't see why I wouldn't be contributing postively. Are the people random voting me doing so? You asked me 3 questions and I answered them.

And if that isn't enough for you:
Look at my post, and then the next post of HWS directly following.
I call them out on not having reads...
and then they

quickly write this badly researched BS about Havo

. This is clearly a panic reaction, and totally in disconnect with their previous behaviour.

[Not Known 15]

randomly using bold and caps

The bold parts aren't random. They are important sections.

[Not Known 15]

So I disagree with NK15's point that town should be angry about lynch pressure at this stage - if you are claiming VT.

Exactly. VTs don’t care if they are lynched.

He’s either actually a Vt or he’s scum claiming one and we have nothing so far to say which is which.

So I disagree with NK15's point that town should be angry about lynch pressure at this stage - if you are claiming VT.

Yes, it is reasonable to assume that vanilla townies are not angry about people wanting to bring someone at L-1.
But that is not all what happened. Someone told everyone of us that they would

quickhammer

them. Worse, they told us that they were fully content with quicklynching them based on zero actual scumreads. That should normally gain a stronger reaction than what happened.
But what is more damning is the total lack of useful partipiciation by HWS. All what we have is defense, fluff, RVS... but no case on anyone else, except Havo, right after I called them on not producing reads, and that one

was a fake interpretation of the posts of Havo

.

First off can you stop bolding your posts? They look like they’re supposed to be a buzzfeed “article”

And secondly can you stop posting stupid shit like this? “VTs don’t care if they’re lynched” has to be the dumbest thing anyone has said in this thread so far

Your push has no reason to exist anymore and you trying to convince people otherwise is sad
VOTE: not known 15

Can you explain this a bit further?
You are actually reinforcing my point that the calmness of the posts of HWS is strange.
And I have no idea why you think that my push has no reason to exist anymore. Just because some people disagree with me that does not mean that I should back off.
Sheep did not move their vote from HWS yet. Tchill did not move the vote from HWS either despite having concerns about my play.
Nero isnt here again.
That's still 4 votes. I am still confident in my reasonings. I have no good reason to move my vote.

[Not Known 15]

Nero isnt here again.

Whats the point of this after chick told ya'll I had the flu?

I was merely outlining that you werent here again, so there was no information if you wanted to change your vote or not; unlike the other two

[Not Known 15]

I'm just saying nk15 looks like he's trying to look really towny

I am not really a fan of him giving us a warning about havo hammering, and then him putting somebody to l-1.

I'm just saying nk15 looks like he's trying to look really towny

I am not really a fan of him giving us a warning about havo hammering, and then him putting somebody to l-1.

I warned HWS that I wanted to put them up at L-1, their reaction was bad, their claim was vanilla, I scumread them...
This hasn't changed- I'd support a HWS lynch right now. That does

not

conflict with my warning.
If someone is at L-1 you normally give the threatened person and everyone else with a potential result time to intervene(via role claim)
It's day 1 so no one has a result yet. HWS claimed. If HWS would have been at L-1 at that point I would have hammered.

but you don't really have a good reason to scum read them, they haven't done anything AI so yeah I call bullshit

Chumba is town, NK is probably scum.
Could see HWS scum but the series of opportunistic votes on him makes me townlean. Profii's play has me a bit concerned.
A lot of irrational/dramatic behavior and complaining in this thread. Not sure if that's just some of your playstyles or if you're just legitimately triggered.
Suspicious of Havo based on no disclaimer post for quickhammers this game. Yeah I know everyone was already talking about it but it's weird how he said in the last game he hates d1 and always quickhammers, yet hasn't anything about doing it this game other than the "darn I was at work" post.
Tchill is town, sheep is probably town.

VOTE: not known 15
most opportunistic vote on HWS and also fence sitting hard and overly explaining his every (bad) move.

I believe that the HWS wagon has contained

at least

one scum, maybe even two at one point.

What makes my vote the most opportunistic vote on HWS?
That looks strange to me...

[Not Known 15]

@Not Known, please explain to me why you think HWS has been anti-town. And don't say it's because he didn't have reads on page 3.

I was more speaking of the possible player mindset behind this calmness. An anti-town mindset(doesnt really care about winning the game and partipiciating) would be a possible explanation(which would also apply to town playing anti-town), or a scum perspective. That doesn't mean that HWS has to be playing anti-town.... they could simply be scum caught faking towniness.

[Not Known 15]

I'm townreading tchill because I want to.

What the.... no that is not a valid response to a questioned townread. It looks more like a post to hide that they are scum and have absolutely nothing to back up a made up townread. Probably they hope it will get lost after the day ends in my mislynch. Don't make that mistake. If you see my green flip, think about this at night.
VOTE: eth0s

I claim VT.

[Not Known 15]

And do not forget that I was the counterwagon for HWS. And remember that what I said came from town.

[Not Known 15]

I'm townreading tchill because I want to.

What the.... no that is not a valid response to a questioned townread. It looks more like a post to hide that they are scum and have absolutely nothing to back up a made up townread. Probably they hope it will get lost after the day ends in my mislynch. Don't make that mistake. If you see my green flip, think about this at night.
VOTE: eth0s

I claim VT.

Why would I even bother sending that response to profii if I were scum? I would have either not answered it or came up with a better answer than "I want to".
I was actually just hoping that would attract an opportunistic vote on myself. And I was right.
But even better than getting voted opportunistically, it was actually an OMGUS from the scum I've been pressuring.

I love this game sometimes

If that's really the reason for your post being like that: Can you actually provide a real answer to that question or not?

[Not Known 15]

You can’t say why you town read tchill?

Well, Tchill has similar reads to me
He is town-motivated from what I can tell
He's confirmed that my nk15 suspicion is valid
looks townie enough for me.

That's why I townread him, that's subject to change.

WHAT did I just read?

Well, Tchill has similar reads to me

How does make that them town? That looks like buddying.

He is town-motivated from what I can tell

"I townread x because I townread x". That is not a valid explanation.

He's confirmed that my nk15 suspicion is valid

That can easily be buddying.

This townread explanation is made up out of thin air

My vote stays on eth0s.

There are other people that have garnered my suspicion.
Sheep... who doesnt explain their reads and assumptions most of the time.
HWS... who has no vote on them yet again, and who I still scumread for their reaction back then
profii... who has brought up a good case on eth0s but doesnt vote them.... and even did not say why.

[Not Known 15]

havo does feel different this game, wonder if this is his first scum game. then again tchill does also.

i'm so confused.

Same can be said for you.

And no, I’m not scum.

Havo, can you back that up?

[Not Known 15]

Now I'm gonna go back and ISO tchill and nk15. Tchill because he was my other scum read, and nk because he's gotten a lot of attention.

Can you also look at schadd and HWS and think about if they are potential lurking scum or not(HWS was under pressure, schadd was not)

[Not Known 15]

I have to agree with Eth0s, unfortunately. I am not sure if Ethos vs Havo is scum vs scum or town vs scum. But Havo's 1v1 behaviour was very bad. So was(here I agree with Tchill) the action of chickadee. Let's look what happens:VOTE: Havo

[Not Known 15]

Ok... Havo and Eth0s are scum.

[Not Known 15]

I don't like how 3 people changed their reads on me yet basically softed that they still want to vote me. Also why is nk suddenly agreeing with me and being so quick to vote without bringing anything new to the table?

I think that you two are both scum trying to distance... and make the other one townread when one of you flips.

[Not Known 15]

It is likely that Havo and eth0s are scum.
We have HWS as possible scum.
Lurkers like schadd can always be scum.

But...
I'd like to see more pressure on another scumread of mine. Maybe there is more interest in voting a player who has acted strange and anti town. Who just does not look like playing his towngame.

VOTE: Sheep

[Not Known 15]

VOTE: not known 15
incorrect.

You vote me because I am scumreading you here?

[Not Known 15]

It is likely that Havo and eth0s are scum.
We have HWS as possible scum.
Lurkers like schadd can always be scum.

But...
I'd like to see more pressure on another scumread of mine. Maybe there is more interest in voting a player who has acted strange and anti town. Who just does not look like playing his towngame.

VOTE: Sheep

"I have all these scumreads but I'm gonna openly declare pressure on this other one that I'm not too sure about"

Correct. What is your problem with that?

[Not Known 15]

well except schadd... that is a very low confidence read.

[Not Known 15]

if it's me and havo scum then why aren't you hopping on one of our wagons... and why did you agree with me 100% on my scumread of havo when you thought I was finished with you? Why did you 180 back to being on the offensive about me once I was no longer scumreading havo? Your play is obviously dependent on others and your defensiveness and weird voting patterns/opportunism makes you a great lynch for today.

I have to agree with Eth0s, unfortunately. I am not sure if Ethos vs Havo is scum vs scum or town vs scum. But Havo's 1v1 behaviour was very bad. So was(here I agree with Tchill) the action of chickadee. Let's look what happens:VOTE: Havo

[Not Known 15]

if it's me and havo scum then why aren't you hopping on one of our wagons... and why did you agree with me 100% on my scumread of havo when you thought I was finished with you? Why did you 180 back to being on the offensive about me once I was no longer scumreading havo? Your play is obviously dependent on others and your defensiveness and weird voting patterns/opportunism makes you a great lynch for today.

I have to agree with Eth0s, unfortunately. I am not sure if Ethos vs Havo is scum vs scum or town vs scum. But Havo's 1v1 behaviour was very bad. So was(here I agree with Tchill) the action of chickadee. Let's look what happens:VOTE: Havo

Still leaving a lot of important q's unanswered... I can't fathom how a townie would see our 1v1 as s/s.

It reminded me of a Newbie game that featured such a 1v1... and both were scum.
When things were going to be serious... you suddenly were

not certain

anymore and backed off.
I see a high chance for you both to be scum.
But if one of you isn't scum then it is you.
However, with 9 days before deadline I'd like to see more pressure on sheep because I am not sure if I will be alive tomorrow.

[Not Known 15]

Havo what about Nero and HWS?
Will look if schadd lurking is usually scum.

[Not Known 15]

But so far I think we are probably going to be finding scum amongst the lurkers, which always makes it tough.

Hmmmm.... I think we might have indeed one scum in the lurkers.
How about HeWhoSwims?
They were the target of pressure first, didnt do much to defend themselves, but others did, which means we even have associatives if they flip.
They were one of the two VT claims already, and getting another person up drastically increased the chance of outing a PR.
They are lurking.

[Not Known 15]

I don't think that lurking is AI for schadd.

[Not Known 15]

But so far I think we are probably going to be finding scum amongst the lurkers, which always makes it tough.

Hmmmm.... I think we might have indeed one scum in the lurkers.
How about HeWhoSwims?
They were the target of pressure first, didnt do much to defend themselves, but others did, which means we even have associatives if they flip.
They were one of the two VT claims already, and getting another person up drastically increased the chance of outing a PR.
They are lurking.

none of that is scum indicative, so why don't we play ip dip instead?

Their fake calmness is scum indicative(you know what I am talking about) from my perspective.
The VT claim is not scum indicative, but it is still good for town to not have to out a PR via counterclaim.
You wanted to lynch a lurker. Which is actually a great idea: we have lots of info on the behaviour of those who do not lurk already. We don't on lurkers.
But it is also usually a bad idea: We get few associatives by lynching a lurker. And Power Roles often lurk more, increasing the risk of an outed PR.
But HWS is not only a lurker, they have also associatives with others, AND they already claimed VT.

[Not Known 15]

I'm not ignoring the fact it's impossible for me to be wrong. You are.

Did you really want to say that?

[Not Known 15]

Would you be okay with lynching schadd?

Currently no.
If we go the lynch a lurker route I currently want HWS to be lynched.
Can you tell me why we should, in your opinion, lynch schadd instead?

[Not Known 15]

I'm not ignoring the fact it's impossible for me to be wrong. You are.

Did you really want to say that?

Yeah. Havo could be scum here sure.

If you actually read what havo has done he pushed eth0s because from his perspective eth0s just hopped on and decided to push havo for his day 1 play without reading the game. So eth0s KNEW and PLANNED who he was gonna push regardless of the situation of the game. Makes sense for someone to see that as scummy imo.

So then you have the garbage personal pot shot 1v1 that didn't accomplish anything but attention.

Now why would scum participate in a spotlit 1v1 on day 1 when they didn't have to?

Havo pushed eth0s HARD and since it wasn't read as TvT that meant there's a real chance if eth0s flips town havo takes a lot of heat for it yet he continued to push DAY ONE in the SPOTLIGHT.

Chumba said stop if you're town and guess what? Havo stopped. Chumba extended the olive branch and havo took it.

Chumba single handedly stopped the 1v1 and turned it into fuel to push havo.

Does anyone, anybody at all see why I think havo and eth0s are town and chumba is scum?

There are multiple things here that don't match:
It was post 391 that stopped the 1v1 and that one came from chickadee, not chumba.

Havo pushed eth0s HARD and since it wasn't read as TvT that meant there's a real chance if eth0s flips town havo takes a lot of heat for it yet he continued to push DAY ONE in the SPOTLIGHT.

Chumba said stop if you're town and guess what? Havo stopped. Chumba extended the olive branch and havo took it.

Now why should scum Chumba not let town destroy themselves instead of intervening here, if havo and ethos are truly town and chumba scum??

[Not Known 15]

VOTE: HWS
Let's lynch this lurker who claimed VT.

Tchill: Please react to post 660

[Not Known 15]

Like help me understand your obsession with the very first person we wagoned and got to claim. Him claiming vt and not posting seems to go hand in hand. You have to convince people why something that is common on this site is scummy to you. I don’t think you can do that.

I still think that his relaxed reaction to a quickhammer threat was strange. It looked like scum trying to fake a townpost without having normal emotional reactions. Even a VT should be angry to be quickhammered on something that was, at that point, a RVS wagon. And because HWS is mainly lurking, there is not much more to assess... and if you have scummy actions on a lurker, they deserve to be strung up.
In this special case, lynching this lurker will definitely be a good idea also because they have claimed VT, which means they are no town power role, and with 2 VT claims already been made we cannot afford more claims this early, to protect our power roles we cannot keep putting people under claim pressure and then backing off.

[Not Known 15]

please explain how being calm in that situation is AI

Let's assess what type of mindset a player could have that could make them calm in this situation(near the start, quicklynch threat).
The player faked the post(scum mindset)
The player isnt actually really interested in the game(this can be town or scum, but that mindset is very anti-town)
The player isn't really angry because they know that their lynch is justified(scum mindset)
Two of these possibilities lead to scum.
The third does not, but it indicates a slot you don't want to have around at LYLO
None of these possibilities indicate that a lynch would be bad.
It is significantly likely that it is the first or the third option, which means that it is indicative for scum(makes it more likely that HWS is scum).

[Not Known 15]

There is at least one scum in Havo/eth0s/chumba/chickadee. Likely two. Maybe even three.
Three of them have told us all things that do not add up(Havo, Eth0s and Chumba). Havo and eth0s were on a 1v1. Chickadee intervened. Chumba tried to.
Something is really wrong here. I have the feeling that one of Havo and eth0s is definitely scum, and that one of the later is also scum trying to defuse a 1v1 with scum. Of these two Chumba is the more interesting candidate, because their attempt was not as in the open as the one of chumba.
I think we even should consider a massclaim for those four right now, because it nails down scum in these four to an early claim, and that can be very dangerous for scum in some circumstances. It also forces scum to clear scummy (strong)power role claims there via nightkill to prevent them from getting night info that clears them and incriminates scum.

[Not Known 15]

Havo.
Chumba.
Chickadee.
Eth0s.

Claim now.
The last one to claim from the most scummy players of you gets my Day 1 vote.
VOTE: Chumba
And as long as Chumba does not claim my vote stands there.

[Not Known 15]

I’m curious as to what you think I’ve said that hasn’t added up?

You three have accused each other to make misleading statements, to mischaracterize actions... What you have said does not add up with what Havo said. Which strongly suggests that someone is scum there. Not all of you can be scum, so it is possible that you are belonging to the town in that bloc.

[Not Known 15]

Havo.
Chumba.
Chickadee.
Eth0s.

Claim now.
The last one to claim from the most scummy players of you gets my Day 1 vote.
VOTE: Chumba
And as long as Chumba does not claim my vote stands there.

wtf

VOTE: Not Known

why are we role fishing 4 people simultaneously.

There is at least one scum in Havo/eth0s/chumba/chickadee. Likely two. Maybe even three.
Three of them have told us all things that do not add up(Havo, Eth0s and Chumba). Havo and eth0s were on a 1v1. Chickadee intervened. Chumba tried to.
Something is really wrong here. I have the feeling that one of Havo and eth0s is definitely scum, and that one of the later is also scum trying to defuse a 1v1 with scum. Of these two Chumba is the more interesting candidate, because their attempt was not as in the open as the one of chumba.
I think we even should consider a massclaim for those four right now, because it nails down scum in these four to an early claim, and that can be very dangerous for scum in some circumstances. It also forces scum to clear scummy (strong)power role claims there via nightkill to prevent them from getting night info that clears them and incriminates scum.

[Not Known 15]

out of interest, given the involvement of tchill in the dramasphere/lynchpool whatever you want to call it, is there a particular reason you haven't included him?

Yes. They were not involved in the 1v1 discussion until it got defused(not fully, eth0s still scumreaded Havo for a bit). They were involved in the grammatics fight, fair point. I wouldn't fight against their inclusion in the claim group but the bigger it becomes the worse it is- we don't want to see all our PR's in that group. Or help scum to find out the remaining PR's.

[Not Known 15]

I don’t get how the person who made this post

with 2 VT claims already been made we cannot afford more claims this early, to protect our power roles we cannot keep putting people under claim pressure and then backing off.

Now wants 4 more people to claim.

Well that is a good question.
I have reconsidered my stance. Usually, yes, you would not want to out even more people.
But Havo, eth0s, Chickadee and you are, for me, caught in a group that is heavily scummy as a whole. If there are legit PR claims there then scum will only help us by eliminating them. But more importantly, right now it is the worst time for scum there in this group to fakeclaim. They don't know what the PR's outside of the group are and if there is a rolecop then they are toast. Which means that we can trust these claims more than tomorrow, or in two game days. Equally importantly, scum do not have daychat unless they have an encryptor(daychat by default must be announced in the rules and it isn't in the rules), which means that they can not work together to forge claims today.

[Not Known 15]

What happened to your suspicion of HWS?

It still exists.
They are a potential third scum outside the group.
Additionally, we do not need to ask them for a claim anymore.

[Not Known 15]

This is a painfully obvious PR Hunt for Not Known 15, guys. We definitely do not need claims from 6 people day 1.

He would have claims from almost half the people in the game, and then has a much better chance of hitting one of the power roles at night. Get out of this stupid Havo v. Chumba thing and vote Not Known. What more do we need?

And, would a PR even CC a fake claim Day 1? I feel like scum would welcome a 1 for 1 trade of a Goon for a PR. We should just be voting NK right now.

Why do our PR's need to CC a fake claim Day 1? They should NOT counterclaim Day 1. A counterclaim on day 2,3 or 4(depending on the color of the Day 1 flip and the type of role) is fast enough.

[Not Known 15]

This is a painfully obvious PR Hunt for Not Known 15, guys. We definitely do not need claims from 6 people day 1.

He would have claims from almost half the people in the game, and then has a much better chance of hitting one of the power roles at night. Get out of this stupid Havo v. Chumba thing and vote Not Known. What more do we need?

And, would a PR even CC a fake claim Day 1? I feel like scum would welcome a 1 for 1 trade of a Goon for a PR. We should just be voting NK right now.

Why do our PR's need to CC a fake claim Day 1? They should NOT counterclaim Day 1. A counterclaim on day 2,3 or 4(depending on the color of the Day 1 flip and the type of role) is fast enough.

Then why would we do a mass claim?

We will get roles on these four. We will probably deal with the VT's and very low power roles first. Depending on the nature of the power roles mafia may have the urge to remove one. The mafia there will be in a dilemma. Either they fakeclaim to avoid the day 1 lynch or they don't and risk to get outed later. If there are two scum in this group, which I suspect, then both can heavily backfire for mafia.

[Not Known 15]

Definitely doesn't look good for nk15. That's for sure.

This sentence does not advance the town play. It's commentary fluff. It makes you more suspicious.

What do you think about my claim proposal?

[Not Known 15]

Didn't you say you town read eth0s, Havo, and Chumba? Why are you okay with this then?

I didn't say that I town read eth0s, Havo and Chumba.

[Not Known 15]

Didn't you say you town read eth0s, Havo, and Chumba? Why are you okay with this then?

I didn't say that I town read eth0s, Havo and Chumba.

That was a profii quote, buddy.

Oops.

[Not Known 15]

Definitely doesn't look good for nk15. That's for sure.

This sentence does not advance the town play. It's commentary fluff. It makes you more suspicious.

What do you think about my claim proposal?

Why the hell would scum shout mass claim on day one?

Why the hell would a towny shout mass claim on day one?

That's what I'm thinking.

Why do you think that my proposed forced claim for these four is not in the interests of town?

[Not Known 15]

I do take chumba point on board that we’ve already had some claims which I admit I had forgotten - I can remember HWS but I can’t rememeber the other one. Obviously NK was involved in eliciting the HWS claim so that is a negative

I claimed VT.

[Not Known 15]

Lets quicklynch nk15 and then if he flips green I will start the wagon on myself

I strongly advise the town to consider lynching havo tomorrow instead, unless there is other(night) info that changes this.
Right now that mess between eth0s/havo/chumba/chickadee(not in the mess by itself but stopped a 1v1) needs to be resolved. And lynching havo is the best idea currently.
Then, when 2 scum have been found you can look at HWS again. Obviously, if you find one scum outside these four this makes HWS way less likely to be scum(which is still possible).

[Not Known 15]

Almost forgot I would be okay with lynching nero but not until tomorrow

Why tomorrow?

eth0s wants to lynch me today so it can't be today. Tomorrow... indicates that they have something problematic on you. Eth0s, what's your problem with Nero?

[Not Known 15]

All I have to say now is that I ask you all to look back at the voting patterns at day 1 every time scum or town flip.
This Day 1 is very important. It will probably be the most important thing to catch scum except for guilty results.

Do not forget Day 1.

[Not Known 15]

VOTE: NK15

I think it’s time to move forward.

This is L-1, people!

And, I agree, it's just about time to move on from this day 1.

And while we are on the topic of bad posts:

All I have to say now is that I ask you all to look back at the voting patterns at day 1 every time scum or town flip.
This Day 1 is very important. It will probably be the most important thing to catch scum except for guilty results.

Do not forget Day 1.

I really think this post is a big attempt to look like he's town, but it's totally useless. I am on board for an NK lynch now, then profii tomorrow unless we get any more information from the night.

You will see the truth soon, I guess. I meant what I said- do not make that mistake. Remember this next day and following when I flip VT.

[Not Known 15]

I don’t know what NK15 is up too.

I can see this as newb town but I have no idea of his experience level. Could just as easily be newb scum.

Either way it doesn’t give me much confidence in his ability to work with THIS town. No offense NK.

Yeah this town seems to scumread me at every opportunity and hates everything I propose so that part of not being able to work with this town is unfortunately correct.

[Not Known 15]

Which means that we need to clear my slot up.
VOTE: Not Known 15

[Not Known 15]

I hope my townflip will allow you to reassess my arguments as being town arguments.

[Not Known 15]

Last thing I'll say is chumba and profii have both said nk15 is town.

That's important to note if nk15 flips town.

I provided what I thought was a good enough reason nk15 maybe town.

Chumba simply said he caught all 3 scum.

Profii Sat on the fence about it.

I hammered myself.
So I can confirm to you: I am town!

[Not Known 15]

Uhh just what I feared. Masons AND encryptor... really bad for my scum hunting.
Masons form an informed minority(and can easily look like mafia)
Encryptor(hidden daytalk) means that I'd suspect day communication.
This is why Chumba and Eth0s got into my scumreads, probably.
And HWS, well I wasn't wrong about HWS, but nobody trusted me(and I do not know why)
The claim I proposed would have been incredibly bad for town.
The masons were too obvious. Yet the doctor who should look for breadcrumbs didnt heal once.
What is worse: they did not heal TWICE at all. And they targeted scum... An abysmal night performance by chickadee.
And then there is Chumba, whose day play was atrocious(Tunnelling too much; when there is more than one scum you can't just look at one person; careless LYLO play(voting too early).
No wonder why we lost.

[Not Known 15]

I've already chalked this game up as a loss so might as well get on with it

for which faction?

Town

This makes like 0 sense from a town POV. We just lynched scum in Osuka and you think you've found both scum in me and HWS but you think town is gonna loose? What I think is that you and HWS feel defeated with 2 clears about with me being your ONLY mislynch option.

Chumba, then tell me: Why did you dismiss this post?

[Not Known 15]

I've already chalked this game up as a loss so might as well get on with it

for which faction?

Town

This makes like 0 sense from a town POV. We just lynched scum in Osuka and you think you've found both scum in me and HWS but you think town is gonna loose? What I think is that you and HWS feel defeated with 2 clears about with me being your ONLY mislynch option.

Chumba, then tell me: Why did you dismiss this post?

I didn’t. His response made zero sense I agree. But your response to me voting you yesterday made zero sense either.

So if he’s scum for that response. You are scum for your response.

You are not talking to Nero Cain. But one important message is in there that you didn't get.
Did you really think that HWS was Town?
If not then you should have noticed that at least one response read was wrong.
Which meant that you had to assess who of those would have made such a response from town POV. This should have told you that Nero, with a 7P LYLO, and your behaviour, was more likely to have no faith in a town win than Jodaxq.
If yes then tell me why.

[Not Known 15]

I played terrible I admit but what y’all did was inexcusable imo and for the record Nero I consider what you did game throwing.

Thanks for nothing.

The lack of self-awareness here is appalling from you btw, Chumba.

I was reading the whole game.

From an outside perspective.

It wasn't Havo.
It wasn't Nero.

It was YOU.

Well it wasn't chumba alone.
My idea that made town lynch me Day 1.
The extremely awful night play by chickadee.
The masons being obvious to scum.
That all wasn't helpful.
But Chumba was it who disturbed the town at day massively. To a point where most scum could just lurk and watch the town destroy itself. Because, let's say it... the day play from scum was anything but excellent.

[Not Known 15]

I mean, her not using her protects for a few night was p bad but she should have been sitting on the tracker the moment he claimed. I mean, I guess there's an element of WIFOM involved. "Do I protect the tracker or would the mafia expect me to be on the tracker so I protect the next likliest kill." Still, the smart play was to sit on the tracker.

I was referring to the first 3 nights. They didn't even look for a potential mason partner to protect Night 2.
And no protects on Night 1 and 3... sorry but what's the logic behind that?

[Not Known 15]

Chumba you said that you put great effort in.
Now there is something that can maybe help you, but it is time consuming:
Go back to each game you played, and analyze your reads and their correctness; and the reasons for your reads. Then you can weed out some reasons you used; specifically those that do not have good accuracy ; this will help you not only pushing people for the right reasons, but it will also help you assess the strength of your reasons.

[Not Known 15]

You can't justify your lie lol. It's never OK to soft anything as a VT.

that's false. i have seen VTs soft PRs to draw NKs. That is one of the things I have been told is an acceptable lie on this site.

I can't agree with both of what you think here.
First, there is some logical disconnect between those two havo posts.
Second, while it is sometimes acceptable by VTs to soft PRs to draw NKs, it is

not

acceptable to softclaim a fake guilty.

[Not Known 15]

You can't justify your lie lol. It's never OK to soft anything as a VT.

that's false. i have seen VTs soft PRs to draw NKs. That is one of the things I have been told is an acceptable lie on this site.

I completely disagree with this but let's say I did.

Did you lie to draw out a NK? Why were you left till lylo?

I hinted at being a PR to finally end the 1 v 1 which should have been ended day 1. I was completely convinced havo was scum and didn't see any way outside of that tunnel and it needed to be resolved before mylo/lylo. I had convinced myself that with his flip, scum would kill me because I'd be confirmed town.

problem was he wasn't actually scum.

I was left alive because of the above, and because my reads were bad.

hmmm then why didn't you think one day before LYLO:"Why am I still alive"?

[Not Known 15]

Mulch, please stop. I think it is enough that chumba saw that they played badly and said they will improve.
Chumba, please notice that it is also you playstyle that is under criticism here.
If you play like an asshole(which was your own definition of your play) then that disrupts town.

[Not Known 15]

nobody sees my side of the story so whatever. i'll just sit alone knowing i was right deal with it.

That's wrong. I agree with there being a logical disconnect between those two posts.
I agree that you were not the only one to blame(however, I blame you the most).
Just one thing... if you really end up tunnelling over and over again and it has no good results... If you know you are tunnelling take a deep breath and look at the evidence again if it is truly deserving this level of suspicion.

I get it. I’ll try yet again go dial it back. I just see scummy behavior and push it. Would make it easier if people stopped doing scummy things

That's unfortunately wishful thinking.

[Not Known 15]

I get it. I’ll try yet again go dial it back. I just see scummy behavior and push it. Would make it easier if people stopped doing scummy things

That's unfortunately wishful thinking.

(This was directed at people doing scummy things)

[Not Known 15]

What part of we didn’t know the setup do you not get?

What part of I moved passed it and it didn’t really factor into anything do you not get?

There’s literally no point in discussing cause it didn’t impact the game at all

If it really was a 2v11 then schadd would have claimed a guilty one day before LYLO, as the last remaining scum. Extremely unlikely.