Mini Normal 1983: Winter Wonderland [Endgame!]

Mathdino · Mon Jan 29, 2018 10:33 pm

i cracked up so hard when i saw that

was following that shitshow in real time, no regrets

Mathdino · Mon Jan 29, 2018 10:35 pm

In post 3602, Katyusha wrote:I feel like it should end if it’s hop/sheep/n_m but I guess lynching sheep in 3way is like really important

i'm open to scumteam conceding now if they want to

but i'm in no way open to scumteam conceding right after hopkirk gets lynched

if they choose to keep playing, they're in it for the long haul

come at me sheep 1v1 me

Mathdino · Mon Jan 29, 2018 10:35 pm

tfw bad reads are a towntell

Mathdino · Mon Jan 29, 2018 10:38 pm

am lowkey confused at how you guys didn't pick up on the whole "scumteam is quicklynching the lurker before she replaces out" thing

but everyone was also fucking done with the game so i get it

honestly if hopkirk or sheep had been the one to request replacement on me, i'd be wrecked

i would literally not be able to come up with an argument to defend my slot

sheep could still have won had he been the one to do that

Mathdino · Mon Jan 29, 2018 10:39 pm

but yeah a lurker who completely lurks out is a major fucking towntell

in scumgame i had to scream to get my partner replaced

to hide it i also requested prods on other slots

but then raybells/NSG replaced into the townslot and my partner kept lurking -_____-

Mathdino · Mon Jan 29, 2018 10:41 pm

what's pov read?

Mathdino · Mon Jan 29, 2018 10:42 pm

In post 3616, Katyusha wrote:it wasn’t really on my radar since from their POV that slot was likely scum anyway

the point is they talk a big game about lynching confirmed scum

but when the slot wasn't there, they're totally down to lynch it before it can speak for itself

their POV of rem being scum makes sense

but not their willingness to lynch right away

Mathdino · Mon Jan 29, 2018 10:42 pm

anyone wanna imagine how this game would've gone

had i replaced into sergtaco's slot

and firebringer replaced into rem?

Mathdino · Mon Jan 29, 2018 10:44 pm

now imagine if i'd replaced into serg's slot and decided to use it to just policy lynch both not_mafia and sheep

Mathdino · Mon Jan 29, 2018 11:00 pm

k gn guys

please do accelerate the night, i will always vote yes on doing that

if there are any PRs obviously deal with hopkirk

Mathdino · Mon Jan 29, 2018 11:35 pm

In post 1901, Sephiroth wrote:Like do you think that ANYONE will want to replace into a 77+ game on day 3? If anyone else flakes the game is fucked. I don't understand the cognitive dissonance that facilitates you thinking its beneficial to do.

i lol'd hard at this

and at this

In post 1835, Sephiroth wrote:I'm sure I'm town. Thats all I'm sure of. HEM is either scum or very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very bad town.

I think Sheep is scum most likely imo.

In post 1836, Sephiroth wrote:like very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very 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Mathdino · Tue Jan 30, 2018 3:18 am

Shit

Read sheep badly in particular sorry

Mathdino · Tue Jan 30, 2018 3:26 am

Disagree on conf scum lynch tbh

Like I don't think that was a winnable position regardless of what we did

Imagine if i came out of the gate arguing fire flubber scumteam

Mathdino · Tue Jan 30, 2018 3:27 am

Was so worried about stopping my own lynch tbh

Mathdino · Tue Jan 30, 2018 3:31 am

In post 3641, Katyusha wrote:Ok! I’m just garbage then :/

I would have never believed that claim either

Same dude

I'm primed to expect fakeclaims from scum Not_Mafia too so that would've gone very badly I think even had we lynched confscum

Mathdino · Tue Jan 30, 2018 3:39 am

Sheep lynch brings us to one of Katy and HEM alive, with the entire town believing hop/nm when we had to maneuver to fire/flubber while believing nms claim

They wouldn't have wavered on Hopkirk imo

Mathdino · Tue Jan 30, 2018 3:40 am

Sucks cuz I knew it was one of those teams

Just kinda went with the one I did since it was consistent with Hopkirkscum

Mathdino · Tue Jan 30, 2018 3:43 am

Lol I guess this counts toward my now 0% Mylo winrate

Can still in theory preserve lylo winrate if i lawyer it on technicality

For real tho how could I have done that better

Mathdino · Tue Jan 30, 2018 4:30 am

In post 3660, Hopkirk wrote:Realistically we no lynch at that point rather than lynching right away, so there's two kills rather than just one. Depends who scum go for. Plus gives NM potential results.

Pretty sure this results in Katy and HEM dying and the rest of us not giving a shit

Like were Not_Mafia and I really gonna back off each other

Mathdino · Tue Jan 30, 2018 4:39 am

Is there actually something we need to be discussing post-game btw or was that just scum theatrics

Mathdino · Tue Jan 30, 2018 4:40 am

In post 3667, Katyusha wrote:That assumes sheep is lynched though

I would've lynched sheep had Not_Mafia claimed tbh

We should've finished the mass claim probably

Mathdino · Tue Jan 30, 2018 5:01 am

I obviously stand by what I said that I was getting more upset about the ongoing games references than by anything else. Was willing to sacrifice my position this game to preserve the integrity of others. There wasn't any other issue for me.

northsidegal wrote:i think not mafia should probably realize that firebringer is lying – from his perspective, a ub on top of cop/watcher/two vigs should just be ridiculous.

Shit, I should've caught this. This completely explains N_M's reaction to the FB claim.

Mathdino · Tue Jan 30, 2018 6:33 am

Ironically... had I counterclaimed Not_Mafia-scum in Marked For Death and speedlynched him, we'd probably have won. I just assumed it was a legit reaction test.

Similarly, had Not_Mafia counterclaimed Firebringer here and speedlynched him, same story. But everyone assumed it was a legit reaction test.

Townsidedness was overall useless with bad vigshots, cop kill, and watcher never getting info and never outing. PRs didn't get the chance to do anything.

HOT TAKE: vigs are anti-town

Mathdino · Tue Jan 30, 2018 7:11 am

I don't think town should ever walk away from a lynch with the mindset of "Meh, no regrets, they were scummy as shit". I mean there are some occasions where I'd lynch someone regardless of their alignment just on the 3/13 chance they're scum, but early lurking UCV is not one of them.

Town's job before LyLo is first and foremost to be right, and only secondary to not get themselves lynched.

I was wrong and I paid for that. Never had to solve a 3/8 MyLo before. Odds were stacked against me given that inexperience, but I'll be better at it next time.

Like I get that it's easy to say this in hindsight but D1 lurk-lynch is almost always the wrong call, and that should've been clear to everyone involved with it.

The way the Seph thing was handled was abjectly horrible. Telling Seph "I'm going to fuck over town by claiming if you don't let us lynch you" puts Seph in a horrible position, and hilariously he basically played into your hands by self-hammering to avoid that claim fucking town.

I never thought Seph was actually scum during spectation. Then again, I also thought Hopkirk was scum while spectating, so fuck me right?

You learn and get better.

And you save the policy lynch candidates for the vigs.

Mathdino · Tue Jan 30, 2018 7:17 am

In post 3691, BuJaber wrote:So the friend who's a blast to hang out with but you secretly hope doesn't join board game night.

cough not_mafia

Mathdino · Tue Jan 30, 2018 7:32 am

i'm honestly convinced that everyone from MU is a mulch alt

Mathdino · Tue Jan 30, 2018 9:27 am

If UCV was literally an innocent child, would you lynch him Seph?

I just don't see the point of getting ML bait out of the way D1 instead of later on. Either way, they get lynched.

Like, if UCV staying alive ruins LyLo because he fucks up, it's still on the town for lynching wrong enough times that you even got to LyLo.

Save lurkers for the vigs. Lurker wagons are horrible for VCA.

Mathdino · Tue Jan 30, 2018 9:28 am

Hopkirk early lynch would instantly lead to Flubberscum yeah. Not sure how we'd get to sheepscum later on though.

From my perspective as an attempted gamesolver, sheep won the game by completely fucking all associations with everyone.

Mathdino · Tue Jan 30, 2018 9:48 am

I think if I'd been scum explicitly on the lookout for PRs, that would definitely have given it away. Claiming at that point might've helped.

Problem is clearing yourself probably would've just led to a Rem lynch anyway. Hard to pinpoint any point in D3 where any singular townie could've turned this around.

Edit: Meh I was looking for scum on my wagon and I knew N_M meta but not Firebringer meta.

Mathdino · Tue Jan 30, 2018 9:50 am

In post 3719, Katyusha wrote:One thing I’m glad this ends is the n_m meta tell where if he tries he’s scum

It smelled like bs but math gave a compelling argument as to why my counterexample didn’t work

i mean fuck me

i picked up that tell from cold metaing him a while back

other people apparently used it

and people complain whenever i bitch about N_M not being readable so i was like LETS SEE IF I CAN DO IT

Mathdino · Fri Feb 02, 2018 12:40 pm

Thoughts on people's actual play then mastina?

First time I've ever subbed into a LyLo.

Mathdino · Fri Feb 02, 2018 1:09 pm

wait by the time i subbed in i'm pretty sure katyusha and HEM were already conftown

Mathdino · Sat Feb 03, 2018 1:24 pm

Okay you know what
Tl;dr this game is equivalent to cop+vig+d3 innocent child vs 3 goons (watcher/asceticizer cancel)
That setup is considered balanced on MS because majority lynch hurts town

So yes this setup was balanced
If you disagree that cop/vig/D3IC is balanced, you disagree with most I think
Setups like Stack The Deck consider that exact setup balanced