State of the Queue 2018

For large social games such as Survivor where the primary mechanic is social interaction.
User avatar
CuddlyCaucasian
CuddlyCaucasian
Professor of Being a Dog
User avatar
User avatar
CuddlyCaucasian
Professor of Being a Dog
Professor of Being a Dog
Posts: 225
Joined: May 20, 2013
Location: Richmond, VA
Contact:

Post Post #100 (ISO) » Fri Feb 02, 2018 7:19 pm

Post by CuddlyCaucasian »

if only we could get AI to play Go..... to the polls!!!!
"CC is very [whatever the equivalent of photogenic as it applies to videos]" - racefan12

"CC is an objectively attractive person." - Crazy

"You look like a happy version of Trent Reznor." - LicketyQuickety

"Do you practice sounding like you're high all the time?" - xofelf
User avatar
Bellaphant
Bellaphant
Jack of All Trades
User avatar
User avatar
Bellaphant
Jack of All Trades
Jack of All Trades
Posts: 7062
Joined: February 5, 2015

Post Post #101 (ISO) » Sat Feb 03, 2018 8:58 am

Post by Bellaphant »

In post 58, xRECKONERx wrote:I've been wondering if open setups would be a bad thing to have? Rerun old setups, etc. Zor's puttin that idea to the test.

This is more what I meant - is there a market for reruns? Even if numbers were slightly different to change up tribe dynamics. Because honestly we all know about when to expect a merge, etc.
hiplop
hiplop
Jury Darling
hiplop
Jury Darling
Jury Darling
Posts: 12498
Joined: March 23, 2011
Location: full of self
Contact:

Post Post #102 (ISO) » Sat Feb 03, 2018 8:59 am

Post by hiplop »

itd have to be a certain kinda game, but id be okay with reruns. Something like Ned's wouldn't work because of the way we designed it
third best scummer of all time
User avatar
Haschel Cedricson
Haschel Cedricson
Mr. Know It All
User avatar
User avatar
Haschel Cedricson
Mr. Know It All
Mr. Know It All
Posts: 2954
Joined: May 14, 2007
Location: Cascadian Subduction Zone
Contact:

Post Post #103 (ISO) » Sat Feb 03, 2018 9:11 am

Post by Haschel Cedricson »

I'm not sure if you'd want a 100% rerun where everyone can guess what order the challenges are coming up and can factor that into their voting decisions. But I think a moderator taking the exact structure of a game and picking previous challenges from a mixture of games would be perfectly fine.

I know when I mod a game I feel like I have to try for a mix of brand new challenges, classic challenges, and variations on old challenges, but there's absolutely no reason that has to happen. If a mod did nothing but take their favorite challenges from old games it would still be perfectly fine.
User avatar
Shadoweh
Shadoweh
Idol Hands
User avatar
User avatar
Shadoweh
Idol Hands
Idol Hands
Posts: 4276
Joined: November 9, 2011

Post Post #104 (ISO) » Sat Feb 03, 2018 9:15 am

Post by Shadoweh »

18 Jigsaw puzzle challenges
I HATE YOU SO MUCH PLEASE GO JUMP INTO A FREEZING LAKE - Mr. Freeze
And this was like me realizing that you were a serial killer. - Hathor
"but I must declare my love to Edelgard here, i offer you the treasure I stole from Raphael, an idol LOL" - Shamir
User avatar
zoraster
zoraster
He/Him
Disorganized Crime
User avatar
User avatar
zoraster
He/Him
Disorganized Crime
Disorganized Crime
Posts: 21680
Joined: June 10, 2008
Pronoun: He/Him
Location: Belmont, CA

Post Post #105 (ISO) » Sat Feb 03, 2018 9:52 am

Post by zoraster »

In post 104, Shadoweh wrote:18 Jigsaw puzzle challenges
18 jig
song
puzzle challenges. my personal hell.
.
User avatar
xRECKONERx
xRECKONERx
GD is my Best Man
User avatar
User avatar
xRECKONERx
GD is my Best Man
GD is my Best Man
Posts: 26087
Joined: March 15, 2009

Post Post #106 (ISO) » Sat Feb 03, 2018 9:57 am

Post by xRECKONERx »

Jigsong is ugh
green shirt thursdays
hiplop
hiplop
Jury Darling
hiplop
Jury Darling
Jury Darling
Posts: 12498
Joined: March 23, 2011
Location: full of self
Contact:

Post Post #107 (ISO) » Sat Feb 03, 2018 10:01 am

Post by hiplop »

In post 103, Haschel Cedricson wrote:I'm not sure if you'd want a 100% rerun where everyone can guess what order the challenges are coming up and can factor that into their voting decisions. But I think a moderator taking the exact structure of a game and picking previous challenges from a mixture of games would be perfectly fine.
this is exactly what interests me about it: knowing what challenges are coming up.
third best scummer of all time
User avatar
Haschel Cedricson
Haschel Cedricson
Mr. Know It All
User avatar
User avatar
Haschel Cedricson
Mr. Know It All
Mr. Know It All
Posts: 2954
Joined: May 14, 2007
Location: Cascadian Subduction Zone
Contact:

Post Post #108 (ISO) » Sat Feb 03, 2018 10:11 am

Post by Haschel Cedricson »

I'm worried it would lead to things like "I know Flappy Bird is coming up and I think this guy might be Klick; let's vote him out now but pretend it's for unrelated reasons so it doesn't look like we're breaking the ID rules."
User avatar
xRECKONERx
xRECKONERx
GD is my Best Man
User avatar
User avatar
xRECKONERx
GD is my Best Man
GD is my Best Man
Posts: 26087
Joined: March 15, 2009

Post Post #109 (ISO) » Sat Feb 03, 2018 10:31 am

Post by xRECKONERx »

I feel like that's a good thing. It's new. It puts a real reason in the game to vote out challenge threats
green shirt thursdays
User avatar
Haschel Cedricson
Haschel Cedricson
Mr. Know It All
User avatar
User avatar
Haschel Cedricson
Mr. Know It All
Mr. Know It All
Posts: 2954
Joined: May 14, 2007
Location: Cascadian Subduction Zone
Contact:

Post Post #110 (ISO) » Sat Feb 03, 2018 10:40 am

Post by Haschel Cedricson »

Hmm. I understand that and don't necessarily disagree. It also provides incentive to keep challenge beasts in the pre-merge stage.

The tacit encouragment of playing to IDs is a problem, though.
User avatar
Shadoweh
Shadoweh
Idol Hands
User avatar
User avatar
Shadoweh
Idol Hands
Idol Hands
Posts: 4276
Joined: November 9, 2011

Post Post #111 (ISO) » Sat Feb 03, 2018 10:44 am

Post by Shadoweh »

Technically that's an encouragement for people to STOP BEING SO OBVIOUS ABOUT YOUR IDS PEOPLE
I HATE YOU SO MUCH PLEASE GO JUMP INTO A FREEZING LAKE - Mr. Freeze
And this was like me realizing that you were a serial killer. - Hathor
"but I must declare my love to Edelgard here, i offer you the treasure I stole from Raphael, an idol LOL" - Shamir
User avatar
Skelda
Skelda
he/him
Zee Retiree
User avatar
User avatar
Skelda
he/him
Zee Retiree
Zee Retiree
Posts: 1384
Joined: July 21, 2013
Pronoun: he/him
Location: Definitely Not Playing an LSG

Post Post #112 (ISO) » Sat Feb 03, 2018 11:00 am

Post by Skelda »

Yes Shadoweh, exactly. If that's the setup and it's known, the impetus is on the players to hide their IDs. That prevents alliances being formed based on IDs which is much more of a problem than people being targeted for challenge strength which can already happen regardless of if future challenges are known.

I would love an open setup/replayed game personally. I actually would like a non-anonymous game with the exact same challenges, swaps, and cast as the original game, though obviously it would be unfair and untenable. It would be a fun experiment though to see how things were different after a second run with all or most variables the same.
User avatar
McMenno
McMenno
they/them
One For Aren't-We-All
User avatar
User avatar
McMenno
they/them
One For Aren't-We-All
One For Aren't-We-All
Posts: 5159
Joined: February 18, 2015
Pronoun: they/them
Location: In spaaaace

Post Post #113 (ISO) » Sat Feb 03, 2018 11:29 am

Post by McMenno »

In post 104, Shadoweh wrote:18 Jigsaw puzzle challenges
who the hell would do
that
?
hiplop
hiplop
Jury Darling
hiplop
Jury Darling
Jury Darling
Posts: 12498
Joined: March 23, 2011
Location: full of self
Contact:

Post Post #114 (ISO) » Sat Feb 03, 2018 12:55 pm

Post by hiplop »

Bro did it
third best scummer of all time
User avatar
D3f3nd3r
D3f3nd3r
he/him
Best Social Game
User avatar
User avatar
D3f3nd3r
he/him
Best Social Game
Best Social Game
Posts: 1367
Joined: March 25, 2012
Pronoun: he/him
Location: Maryland
Contact:

Post Post #115 (ISO) » Sat Feb 03, 2018 1:38 pm

Post by D3f3nd3r »

Anyone that wants me to actually get deep into a game would :)
“The assumption of good faith is dead”

(profile pic by datisi)
User avatar
BROseidon
BROseidon
Expert Marxman
User avatar
User avatar
BROseidon
Expert Marxman
Expert Marxman
Posts: 8242
Joined: April 18, 2013

Post Post #116 (ISO) » Sat Feb 03, 2018 4:51 pm

Post by BROseidon »

In post 114, hiplop wrote:Bro did it
Technically it was BPC but yah
User avatar
Bellaphant
Bellaphant
Jack of All Trades
User avatar
User avatar
Bellaphant
Jack of All Trades
Jack of All Trades
Posts: 7062
Joined: February 5, 2015

Post Post #117 (ISO) » Sun Feb 04, 2018 11:25 pm

Post by Bellaphant »

In post 111, Shadoweh wrote:Technically that's an encouragement for people to STOP BEING SO OBVIOUS ABOUT YOUR IDS PEOPLE
I'm sorry I can't make enough fake jobs that let me post in the middle of the USA night. ;)
User avatar
Cheery Dog
Cheery Dog
Kayak
User avatar
User avatar
Cheery Dog
Kayak
Kayak
Posts: 8035
Joined: June 30, 2012
Location: OMG BALL!

Post Post #118 (ISO) » Sun Feb 04, 2018 11:54 pm

Post by Cheery Dog »

College student always works
Holder of the Longest Continuous Weekly Mafiascum Post Record. 1 July 2012 - 16 Feb 2023
*It may be held by someone else if you discount the major downtime in 2012 and 2014, I'm not doing the research.
User avatar
Chevre
Chevre
Honourable Mention
User avatar
User avatar
Chevre
Honourable Mention
Honourable Mention
Posts: 845
Joined: February 19, 2010
Location: NEBRASKA
Contact:

Post Post #119 (ISO) » Tue Feb 13, 2018 4:27 am

Post by Chevre »

Looking at the current discussion in the game classification thread:

I think something mods should consider a bit more is whether or not the mechanics and twists they are injecting into their games are fun for the players. It's certainly fun for mods to load their games with mechanics and complexity and and cackle evilly as players have to meander through them. But in the end the mods are a small group of people, whereas 16-30 players signed up to this game to have fun (and possibly many more applied but didn't get accepted). I know that should I ever design a game I want to consider "Is this thing torture or a creative interesting bit?" when I'm designing all aspects of the game--structure, twists, and challenges.
There will be no kisses tonight
There will be no holding hands tonight
'Cause what is now wasn't there before and should not be
User avatar
Klick
Klick
Flash Forward
User avatar
User avatar
Klick
Flash Forward
Flash Forward
Posts: 12713
Joined: September 1, 2012

Post Post #120 (ISO) » Tue Feb 27, 2018 9:21 am

Post by Klick »

so uh

I know people have had issues with mods doing questionable things in their games recently. And making sure mods don't do anything that will piss players off is a good thing. But I think we're going a little too hard on the other extreme at the moment.
We've got a mod deficit. It's not that we don't have any mods, it's that these mods aren't completing their games in a time that matches player demand. I would reckon that many of these mods just aren't willing to go through the long, winding steps required to get a game they're happy with through the queue in such a short time. Adding more and more hoops for mods to jump through is only going to make that problem worse.

Quality in games is good. We're pretty well-known for having high-quality LSGs, and it's a good idea to try and keep that rep. But lower game quality is a problem that can be fixed with slight adjustments to the way the Queue works. We already have LSG mods looking over each game, it's easy enough to just get them to confirm the balance and twistiness of a game. We don't want to overdo it and have an unnecessarily intricate solution that creates an even bigger problem in mod supply.


I'd like to ask some upcoming mods with games in production: what are some of the issues that are stopping your game(s) from being ready sooner? Lack of co-mods, life issues, difficulty getting through the Queue with how it's structured, etc. We should be working toward fixing this problem, so it would be nice to know what's causing it.
User avatar
xRECKONERx
xRECKONERx
GD is my Best Man
User avatar
User avatar
xRECKONERx
GD is my Best Man
GD is my Best Man
Posts: 26087
Joined: March 15, 2009

Post Post #121 (ISO) » Tue Feb 27, 2018 9:22 am

Post by xRECKONERx »

How would the proposed solution create more work on the mods?
green shirt thursdays
hiplop
hiplop
Jury Darling
hiplop
Jury Darling
Jury Darling
Posts: 12498
Joined: March 23, 2011
Location: full of self
Contact:

Post Post #122 (ISO) » Tue Feb 27, 2018 9:36 am

Post by hiplop »

In post 121, xRECKONERx wrote:How would the proposed solution create more work on the mods?
third best scummer of all time
User avatar
Klick
Klick
Flash Forward
User avatar
User avatar
Klick
Flash Forward
Flash Forward
Posts: 12713
Joined: September 1, 2012

Post Post #123 (ISO) » Tue Feb 27, 2018 10:09 am

Post by Klick »

The proposed solution being submitting certain aspects of your game to the LSG mods for ranking in how twisty they are? In reality, it doesn't create much more
work
at all for mods. But when mods have to send their games to the LSG mods and have them look at every little detail of the game before they can progress through the queue, that takes extra time and is another obstacle in the way of finally getting a game in the queue.

I think the game review thing is a smaller issue on top of a larger underlying problem. Mods have to go through a lot before they can even think about their game actually running. Using my own game as an example, had NAH been run under today's ruleset, I'm not sure it would have ever made it through the queue. Not because it wouldn't be good enough to run, but because the task of getting it through would have looked so daunting that I probably would have told CC I wasn't interested from the start. And I know that the current process has also stopped me and others from getting a few other game ideas off the ground, whether it be because I couldn't find co-mods (with the required experience) or because the idea of getting a game through the Queue seemed too arduous to accomplish.

The biggest issue, in my opinion, is the co-mod requirement. Look at the current list of games that need co-mods:
Spoiler:
Survivor of the Fittest

Moderators: Save The Dragons, PrivateI
Game Type: Anonymous
Players: 16
Design Status: Early design

Survivor: Naruto

Moderators: hiplop, SummerInWonderland
Game Type: Anonymous
Players: 18
Design Status: Early design.

Survivor: Soap Operas

Moderators: BROseidon
Game Type: Anonymous
Players: ??
Design Status: Early design.

Survivor: Shonen Rumble

Moderators: BROseidon, Aeronaut
Game Type: Anonymous
Players: 32
Design Status: Early design

Aristocratic Ladies of the English Countryside

Moderators: xRECKONERx, zoraster
Game Type: ?
Players: ?
Design Status: Early design

Dance's Big Brother

Moderators: JustDanceWorld, PrivateI
Game Type: Non-Anonymous
Players: 14
Design Status: Mostly complete, just needs comods


Almost all of these teams are two-person teams just looking for a third for their idea. And I'd also argue that almost all of these teams would be basically fine to run as two-person teams, if we're being honest.

I guess what I'm saying is that I don't necessarily agree with how stringent the modding requirements have become and some of our mod supply issues would be resolved if we cut back a little on that. Mod supply was never a problem until harsher mod requirements became the standard.
User avatar
xRECKONERx
xRECKONERx
GD is my Best Man
User avatar
User avatar
xRECKONERx
GD is my Best Man
GD is my Best Man
Posts: 26087
Joined: March 15, 2009

Post Post #124 (ISO) » Tue Feb 27, 2018 10:12 am

Post by xRECKONERx »

What do you interpret as being different for the review under the new ruleset?

Like, it's essentially the exact same process. The LSG listmods will just have better vocabulary to communicate with potential players.
green shirt thursdays
Post Reply

Return to “ORGs and Large Social Games”