Mini Normal 1984: Big Brother is watching.. [END GAME]

[profii]

Spoiler: RBs townblock

Not gonna lie, every single reason given for eth0s townreads are just not reasons I agree with. Jodax is probably town, profii I think is town also despite the rougher-than-Trumps-face furor that went on before.

I think scum are most likely the people not giving much weight to the game at this point and allowing the situation to unfold. I'm townblocking thor, profii, jodax, dunker.

Where's everyone on their townreads of those 4 slots?

Not gonna lie, every single reason given for eth0s townreads are just not reasons I agree with. Jodax is probably town, profii I think is town also despite the rougher-than-Trumps-face furor that went on before.

I think scum are most likely the people not giving much weight to the game at this point and allowing the situation to unfold. I'm townblocking thor, profii, jodax, dunker.

Where's everyone on their townreads of those 4 slots?

In theory do we vote Acryon or Lalendra then (the 2 players on the Sauce wagon not in the town block) now

Or do we flip sauce first

Not gonna lie, every single reason given for eth0s townreads are just not reasons I agree with. Jodax is probably town, profii I think is town also despite the rougher-than-Trumps-face furor that went on before.

I think scum are most likely the people not giving much weight to the game at this point and allowing the situation to unfold. I'm townblocking thor, profii, jodax, dunker.

Where's everyone on their townreads of those 4 slots?

In theory do we vote Acryon or Lalendra then (the 2 players on the Sauce wagon not in the town block) now

Or do we flip sauce first

Could you explain the theory behind your first thought?

Not gonna lie, every single reason given for eth0s townreads are just not reasons I agree with. Jodax is probably town, profii I think is town also despite the rougher-than-Trumps-face furor that went on before.

I think scum are most likely the people not giving much weight to the game at this point and allowing the situation to unfold. I'm townblocking thor, profii, jodax, dunker.

Where's everyone on their townreads of those 4 slots?

In theory do we vote Acryon or Lalendra then (the 2 players on the Sauce wagon not in the town block) now

Or do we flip sauce first

Could you explain the theory behind your first thought?

yeah - I was probably jumping ahead. So...

I am comfortable with the town block, I thought at least a couple of those players were on saucy, as were Lalendra and Acryon, therefore, the town block had the power to hammer.

Now the next thought was I am thinking Saucy is anti town but I'm not fully convinced he is scummy. On that logic, if he flipped town, sure someone in the town block could be scum but I think it would be more likely someone on the wagon outside of the town block - i.e. Lalendra or Acryon.

so my thought was basically an question aimed at the town block, out of saucy/acryon/lalendra who do we find most scummy, given we can potentially make a lynch happen, we should discuss

Saucy, at best, is hard work, so given the day / day phase issue has resurfaced, i thought i'd look at that and see what the answer is. In the spoiler tag below is any quote that references either days or policy lynching from Saucy.

My analysis is:


Post 119 - the issue starts here, Saucy wishes to policy lynch FL for that quote-posting thing.

Post 119-124 = Acryon queries if the policy is lack of content, Saucy says no for self imposed quoting and highlights Acryon is linking rb and dunkers mistakenly.

Post 125/134 - Saucy denies wishing to policy lynch someone in 2 days into the game. It's quite pedantic to go from suggesting a policy lynch on day 2, to disputing it based on, i assume, the initial post not having a time constraint.

In post 135 I pointed out day =/= day phase where saucy continues to be pedantic in 136


Post 141 - Saucy further introduces the idea of "page 2", which had not been previously mentioned, we were distinctly saying calendar day 2 was quick for a policy lynch. He further pushes this confusion in post 191


post 365 - Saucy said

2. I didn't say I wanted the day to end two days into the dayphase. Correct?

- This is true, he suggested the idea of a PL on day 2, he didnt say anything along the lines of lets all get on the wagon and get it done guys.


Post 367 - Acryon said -

2. I also never said you wanted the day to end two days into the day phase. I was surprised by your early willingness to state that you think a PL would be appropriate.

- I am going to double check this, this could be interesting.
The conclusion to this exchange in 378 is that Saucy finds FL's quote/read style limiting and scummy, which as a principle, is fairly sound.

Post 388 - tee hee hee



the big post at the end (I somehow broke the BB code so not sure which post this actually is )

In response to 730, Saucy accuses Thor of playing word games, but i think Saucy is not innocent here with the page 2 push.

Then at the end of the post, Saucy goes into the intricacies of the scenarios around policy lynching on day 2 and weather that makes him town or scum based on thors scenarios.

Spoiler: quotes

Willing to policy lynch Leaf. Don't think Lalendra and acryon should've encouraged him.

Willing to policy lynch Leaf. Don't think Lalendra and acryon should've encouraged him.

You're willing to policy lynch someone 2 days into the game? I assume RB and Dunker are quite high on your policy lynch list?

Why?

Because their level of contribution is similar to Leaf's. I would say they've contributed less actually.

I thought you said it wasn't. Needless to say the reason for policy lynching Leaf is because he has self-imposed the limitation of quote-only gameplay. You must've assumed this was the case, but welcomed the occasion of trying to instigate animosity between rb, Dunker and myself. Smooth

Willing to policy lynch Leaf. Don't think Lalendra and acryon should've encouraged him.

You're willing to policy lynch someone 2 days into the game?

No, I'm not, nor did I in any way say that.

Is this a joke? You literally have the quote of you saying "willing to policy lynch Leaf" in this same post you replied to...

The quote says nothing about 2 days. Is this your idea of acting like pro-town?

Lurking derp get a clue before you post. Nobody said anything about dayphases

Man, I wish this was the tiebreaker game for team mafia, so the whole site would have to read and see the amount of shit I have to sift through just to lynch this fucking scum who scumclaimed on page 1.

I think you think you're a lot better at this than you are...

To be perfectly clear, I said:
"You're willing to policy lynch someone 2 days into the game?"

I meant:
You're willing to policy lynch someone? And you're willing to do that just 2 days into the game?"

That's the same tough isn't it. To be surprised at my retort you would have to have said something like "You decided on page 2 (wasn't page 2 though was it) to policy lynch once the game has progressed enough to warrant a lynch in general."
You implied I want the hammer to occur on page 2, which I absolutely didn't say nor mean nor hint at. Hence..

Willing to policy lynch Leaf. Don't think Lalendra and acryon should've encouraged him.

You're willing to policy lynch someone 2 days into the game?

No, I'm not, nor did I in any way say that.

@acryon so ..

@Profii

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... ng_as_Town

For your education if you are town.
Though that reaction makes me really want to flip you now.

does this mean Thor wants to hammer profii on page 2?

You're badly reaching here.

1. He said "makes me want to". You said "willing to". An apparent wordsmith such as yourself shouldn't have any problem understanding the differences between these two, and I think I'd be insulting your intelligence if I spent anymore time expounding.

2. Ignoring the semantics, he was talking about a reaction, meaning his reason for wanting to lynch would've been because he thinks they're scum. You supported a policy lynch.

1. stop trying to troll me and troll me.
2. Is it not hypocritical for a policy lynch supporter such as yourself to criticize me for finding a policy lynch on Leaf appropriate?

So I said, meh, why not. Your scumbuddy is about to get lynched because he scumslipped and next dayphase you'll get lynched because you tried to obstruct the push on him .. at least I can give him this much.

Obviously the best way to scumhunt is to write the necessary posts one deems sufficient in order to make in unmistakably clear to the objective observer that one is town. Then, if everyone or at least a majority has been given the chance to do so we can start applying pressure. And then if there are inconsistencies or slips or lack of the qualities I've invoked earlier in this game that pertain to townieness, then one can objectively say upon scrutinizing them, that one has succeeded in scumhunting and the rest is up to the fellow townies.

This is such a weird way to view the game. This assumes everyone has this same MO, which they don't. My goal is not to "make it unmistakably clear to the objective observer" that I'm town. I'm just trying to scum-hunt and I think that the work will speak for itself when people look at it.

This game is not some utopia where we all sit around talking about how town we are and then everyone moves on to some "scumhunting" phase.

If you are town then how do you explain that every attempt to divulge my townieness is countered with senseless aggravation of your stupidity. I have yet to lose an argument against you, while you have lost every single one. 1. "FOS: rb = Roleblocker" wasn't role speculation. Correct? 1.1. I have every right to call you stupid if you're going to act like it was. 1.2. You, and profii for that matter have in one instant thrown out all the intelligence credibility to falsely accuse me of something that never existed. How can I or anyone else ever trust your judgement after such a roflwut display of idiocy, correct? . 2. I didn't say I wanted the day to end two days into the dayphase. Correct? 3. Only I can assess the merit of asking about the number of scum and sk probability in my particular situation. Correct? 4. I explain why setup speculation is a waste of time and space which is best allocated to scumhunting, the material for which should be abundant in a later stage of the game, and my conclusions are unchallenged, let alone intelligently rebutted, so I exposed all the fuss around it as stupidity at best, malicious scum off-balance-throwing at worst. Correct? Everything Thor has ever written with regard to my posts is false, twisted, misappropriated, generalized and truncated down in an absolutely horrifying gaslighting manner, and he needs to seek professional help because that is just not something you do to your enemies let alone your fellow player, Correct? Do I need to quote 50% of his posts and cross-reference them with what I've actually posted? Because I'll do that for the sake of my sanity. 6. Nobody has made a case against me that entails something I did; the best thing anyone could come up with is gaslighting with regard to the lack of content I supposedly produced. I have nothing to defend against except all these idiocy-enforcing fecal matter projectiles, and yet I'm the one getting lectured, and psychologically and ego profiled, my play classified as irritating and annoying and getting negative psychiatric/health evaluations. Correct? 7. If I post this the way it is I will get shit for it, even though it's the truth. Correct? Prove me wrong.

1. I never had an issue with your RB comment. I always had an issue with you asking about how many scum their were. This is evidenced by my follow-up discussion with you, which was exclusively about that aspect.

2. I also never said you wanted the day to end two days into the day phase. I was surprised by your early willingness to state that you think a PL would be appropriate.

3. Wrong. Everyone has the right assess the merit of anything. That's literally what this game is.

4. Except you are the one that brought it up in the first place; AND setup speculation is actually a

critical

component of the game in later days as we determine the best course of action.

You seem to think I ever had an issue with 21, which I didn't. I have never even eluded to the fact that I cared about 21. My issue was always about 22, which is obvious to anyone who read the thread.

1. How is that role speculation? And how is that agreeing completely with what profii said?
2, There's absolutely no reason for a decision to policy lynch someone who refuses to use the full capacity of his expression to surprise you.
3. Here you are lecturing me about what the game is after all this .. this^ including. Are you fucking kidding me?
4. No it's not, read my arguments. Nobody needs to chew new setup information and spit it out into someone else's mouth to be able to get and digest it. I've brought what up first. This is going to lead to more stupidity, there's no other way around it, but I can't expose it before you answer this, or else I would, but your statement makes zero sense as it is.

1. I suppose it is not "role speculation" as much as it is "setup speculation", but that feels like semantics to me.
2. Given that PL are bad 99% of the time, I think there is.
3. N/A
4. Talking to a wall on this point if you can't understand.

1. It's kind of late to guess now though. I don' care about how you supposedly feel about anything.
2. Even so, encouraging Flavor to limit himself is scummy.
3. Why don't you N/A all the points. Would be faster for me, more convenient for everyone.
4. I understand. You declare yourself either willing to chew the setup information for someone or you want someone to chew it for you. Either way it would stand in the way of scumhunting. Not so much on page 1, when it's a basic question I as a newcomer want to know.

Saucy Waucy

I want to be as far away from this individual's influence as humanly possible.

What are your thoughts?

Is there any kind of non-jester but normal role that gets some kind of ability if lynched by the town. He seems to be actively being a jerk so this is my main line of thinking

That reads funky to me - and Acronym was *not* being a jerk when he asked, but got all the shotguns to the face in return.
That's what's bugging me.

First off you quote the post the sole purpose of which was to diss me. The answer whether there's a jester in the setup was answered negatively so just the fact that you insinuate that this provocation needs your attention more than actually doing something constructive is of course you propagating that insult. For me to improve at doing my job as a townie --which is what you and a bunch of others formed a choir group around-- the insult need to stop, obviously.

I don't see him actively being a jerk to be connected to role - as he did wait till people questioned his actions and statements before acting jerk-like.

Calling someone stupid when they've exhibited apparent stupidity is not jerk-like behavior. So no amount of calling someone stupid should be considered jerk-like behavior if I can prove that it's a direct response to stupidity exhibition. If, however, I've been mistreated with accusations implying otherwise so much that it can't be expected of me to tolerate it any longer then I will go HAM on the agents of mistreatment and am in no way responsible for anything, because the insults prevented me from improving my state. No amount of taking out of context subsequent posts is going to change that.
Instead of ignoring the underlying cause and insinuating that I'm the cause any townie with some basic common sense would've simply stopped the insults before demanding a supposed increase in performance and effort to persuade.

The question is whether he is brittle enough that questioning him just sets him off - or is he nervous scum who went whole hog as soon as he felt any suspicion towards him.

Insults masked as content. Just because you're dressing it up in a town vs scum dilemma it doesn't make 'brittle' go away. By saying questioning you generalize, why don't you specifically point towards the supposed question which allegedly set me off? Because then you'd expose its provoking and insulting nature, and you would have to admit that I wasn't set off. Am I set off now? or am I calmly explaining these things to you like I said I would?
If you're going to claim the latter, then the post I'm disambiguating as I speak is an example for how you operate in setting the stage for future lies and provocations.

Considering the word games he opted to play with me (relevant things to look at our his dissection of my "all of you" statement) I then find how he reacted to Acronym's question (2 days would be the ctrl+f to find it in iso) to read funny. If he thinks it's interesting/funny/scumhunting to dissect my words why the hell would he blow up on Acronym for straight up asking him about something he explicitly said?

Because when I say that when you say nobody except someone other than you is trying to create content and solve the game then it's clear that you didn't include yourself, which means you don't want to solve the game.
[sopiler=No amount of 'I don't think I said that' is going to change that ]

I don't think I am because nothing in there says that.
How do you translate what I said to get that conclusion?

In direct contrast

Spoiler: acryon says

Willing to policy lynch Leaf. Don't think Lalendra and acryon should've encouraged him.

You're willing to policy lynch someone 2 days into the game? I assume RB and Dunker are quite high on your policy lynch list?

There's no reason for him to assume that I wanted to policy hammer him 2 days into the game, because being willing to policy lynch someone could mean policy hammer someone on Day 3, and yet his alleged surprise insinuates

• I'm scum and would policy hammer FL 2 days into the game - and he found me out
• I'm town and would ..... - and he is criticizing me for it

. I tell him I don't want to policy hammer FL 2 days into the game so now it's

• I'm scum and I'm
  • lying about not having wanted to policy hammer 2 days ..
  • not lying ...
• I'm town and
  • I just set it straight that I wasn't gonna policy hammer 2 days ....
  • I'm town and am lying about ... to hide my incompetence of not knowing it's not a good idea to quicklynch 2 days in..

How is this resembling the clear way of how you said you are not trying to solve the game? There's no reason for scum to say they want someone policy hammered 2 days in, but there's a reason for scum not to include themselves in the list of supposed people who are solving the game, and that reason is because it's the truth. They want to bullshit townies into not solving the game, ever.

Easiest post I ever had to make. Do you still want the other one too?



So, whilst I'm here, let's look at Acryon for the sake of completeness -


Post 367 - Acryon said -

2. I also never said you wanted the day to end two days into the day phase. I was surprised by your early willingness to state that you think a PL would be appropriate.

This is correct, Acryon asked, but not explicitly state this was what Saucy wanted to do.





Conclusion:

Saucy has a point that saying he is happy to place a vote on policy, is different to saying, everyone we should policy lynch this player right now
On the other hand, this all seems to have escalated into day / day phase / Day / page which largely seems to be missing the point.

So I actually think Saucy has a legit point and he is being unfairly attacked about the PL issue by Acryon.

Any thoughts kop/eth0s?

[profii]

@our dearest most fearless leader, Archwing, if you could add a / to that final spoiler tag to fix my reckless stupidity i will owe you my first born daughter and best offerings from this years harvest.

The change you initially requested did not have the desired effect. I shuffled around a couple tags to get what you currently see. Hopefully this is sufficient to get your point across. I want that baby.

[eth0s]

This is arguably the most lost I've ever been in a game. A little bit lost on the purpose of that post, profii.

Lalendra scumreading me for not elaborating on my vig shot already is amusing

Assuming i did not misplace my trust in profii I think its lale/acry

[profii]

the purpose of that was the RB town block he called out was perfect, so revisiting my logic that we should have looked at

sauce

/lal/acryon given the entire thing was unlikely to be a entirely town driven thing, it supports a lynch on lal or acryon which is where my focus is right now

I'd made a case against acryon based on his interactions with saucy and i guess i let him lead me to thor, but interestingly, no one followed me, so i am going to look to see if anyone tried to bring me round to dunkers. i was pretty sure he was town though so would have been tough/obvious for scum to try anything...


Let's try and predict the game:


player: lynch choice 1: lynch choice 2

Profii: Acryon - Lalendra
eth0s: Lalendra - Acryon
Lalendra: Profii - eth0s
Acryon: Kop - Lalendra
Kop: Lalendra + ?

what else do we know. eth0s made a vig claim and we've had no cc. That's a good thing and puts more doubt on Lalendra.


I say we lay down votes if anyone else agrees?

[eth0s]

I'm not ready to vote. I'm about to go to class and then probably will be very busy afterwards. I won't be voting until I get time to read thru the game again

[acryon]

the purpose of that was the RB town block he called out was perfect, so revisiting my logic that we should have looked at

sauce

/lal/acryon given the entire thing was unlikely to be a entirely town driven thing, it supports a lynch on lal or acryon which is where my focus is right now

I'd made a case against acryon based on his interactions with saucy and i guess i let him lead me to thor, but interestingly, no one followed me, so i am going to look to see if anyone tried to bring me round to dunkers. i was pretty sure he was town though so would have been tough/obvious for scum to try anything...


Let's try and predict the game:


player: lynch choice 1: lynch choice 2

Profii: Acryon - Lalendra
eth0s: Lalendra - Acryon
Lalendra: Profii - eth0s
Acryon: Kop - Lalendra
Kop: Lalendra + ?

what else do we know. eth0s made a vig claim and we've had no cc. That's a good thing and puts more doubt on Lalendra.


I say we lay down votes if anyone else agrees?

My order would definitely Lalendra, then Kop.

Also,

no one should lay down votes

. There are 2 scum left and only 3 required to lynch. If town lays down even a single vote on another town and the scum are on at the same time that's GG.

We should speak entirely in hypothetical votes until the time comes when we're ready to pull the trigger for the day.

[Lalendra]

That fact, in and of itself, should make you suspicious of the fact that there are 4 people who seem to agree on lynching me. Two of them are scum and two are misguided town.

[profii]

so what do you think about eth0s vig claim?

You are essentially saying 2 scum is eth0s + presumably me based on your previous comments, however given the uncontested claim, I think we can give eth0s town status fairly safely

[acryon]

That fact, in and of itself, should make you suspicious of the fact that there are 4 people who seem to agree on lynching me. Two of them are scum and two are misguided town.

It's very reasonable that scum would be bussing.

[profii]

That fact, in and of itself, should make you suspicious of the fact that there are 4 people who seem to agree on lynching me. Two of them are scum and two are misguided town.

That fact, in and of itself, should make you suspicious of the fact that there are 4 people who seem to agree on lynching me. Two of them are scum and two are misguided town.

It's very reasonable that scum would be bussing.

@Acryon, what do you want to see from the body of town players before we actually vote?

It seems clear that Lalendra is likely going today - I think explaining that eth0s read away will be tough based on the lack of counter claim so I don't anticipate anyone changing their view.

I suggest we do not speculate on night kills or tomorrows actions as we will only give scum clues on who is town blocking with each other and who they should kill.

[acryon]

That fact, in and of itself, should make you suspicious of the fact that there are 4 people who seem to agree on lynching me. Two of them are scum and two are misguided town.

That fact, in and of itself, should make you suspicious of the fact that there are 4 people who seem to agree on lynching me. Two of them are scum and two are misguided town.

It's very reasonable that scum would be bussing.

@Acryon, what do you want to see from the body of town players before we actually vote?

It seems clear that Lalendra is likely going today - I think explaining that eth0s read away will be tough based on the lack of counter claim so I don't anticipate anyone changing their view.

I suggest we do not speculate on night kills or tomorrows actions as we will only give scum clues on who is town blocking with each other and who they should kill.

I just hate the idea that we could potentially rush into a game-ending move. But people do seem fairly locked in.

I also think it doesn't make sense to speculate on NK or anything, but I do think everyone should get their reads out in the event they die.

@eth0s: Given Lalendra-scum, can you give an explanation on how your remaining reads shake out?

[profii]

-eth0s, I suggest you don't explain your reads, on the basis if you provide any town block, scum will look to divide and conquer with tonight's NK.

[acryon]

-eth0s, I suggest you don't explain your reads, on the basis if you provide any town block, scum will look to divide and conquer with tonight's NK.

I think this is being overly cautious to the detriment of town. If we don't talk about

anything

, we go into the last day of the game pretty blind.

Scum can already do what you're describing because they know on a base level where people's reads stand. Giving additional detail helps us more than them.

[profii]

yeah but it could all change subject to the NK so why rush that

[acryon]

yeah but it could all change subject to the NK so why rush that

Because whoever gets NK won't get a chance to elaborate.

[Archwing]

Nothing was your own except the few cubic centimetres inside your skull.

VOTECOUNT 3.02

Not Voting(5):

profii, eth0s, Kop, Lalendra, acryon

With 5 players alive, it takes 3 to lynch.

The deadline for Day 2 is in (expired on 2018-02-18 18:12:41)

Mod Notes: Have fun!

[profii]

yeah but it could all change subject to the NK so why rush that

Because whoever gets NK won't get a chance to elaborate.

so if we lose a VT, we don't get to see their speculative reads.

Let's put it this way, if we lynch Lal and you die, I am very confused tomorrow.


another post from eth0s and Kop and I intend to place the first vote on Lal.

[profii]

- oh plus an answer RE the eth0s read from Lal before my vote as I requested earlier...

[Lalendra]

so what do you think about eth0s vig claim?

You are essentially saying 2 scum is eth0s + presumably me based on your previous comments, however given the uncontested claim, I think we can give eth0s town status fairly safely

Just because the claim is uncontested doesn't necessarily mean he's town. I also don't like the fact that he has popped in twice since he was asked to explain his choice and hasn't addressed the question.

[Lalendra]

5 players, 2 scum and 3 town; town gets lynched and another gets NK'ed, isn't that end of game, town loses?

Might as well claim since everyone seems to suspect me. I'm VT. That's why earlier I said I am not the worst lynch, but certainly not the best. (i.e. not a PR, but also not scum.)

[acryon]

so what do you think about eth0s vig claim?

You are essentially saying 2 scum is eth0s + presumably me based on your previous comments, however given the uncontested claim, I think we can give eth0s town status fairly safely

Just because the claim is uncontested doesn't necessarily mean he's town. I also don't like the fact that he has popped in twice since he was asked to explain his choice and hasn't addressed the question.

I do agree with this.

5 players, 2 scum and 3 town; town gets lynched and another gets NK'ed, isn't that end of game, town loses?

Might as well claim since everyone seems to suspect me. I'm VT. That's why earlier I said I am not the worst lynch, but certainly not the best. (i.e. not a PR, but also not scum.)

Well actually if you are in fact town, you are the worst lynch. All town lynches at this point are equally bad because we auto-lose.

[profii]

In theory we’ve had a bodyguard (protection) / tracker (investigation) / and a unconfirmed vig

I can see that being it in a 10player game but happy to say I’m VT anyway

[Lalendra]

Well actually if you are in fact town, you are the worst lynch. All town lynches at this point are equally bad because we auto-lose.

Right now, yes. That wasn't the case when I initially said it.

[eth0s]

Scumteam is Lalendra & acryon or else I am just putting too much stock into profii town. But I see more of a reason to TR him than anyone else.

[eth0s]

I don't need to explain my choice on rb. That doesn't make me scummy.