Open 709: Masons and Monks (Game Over)
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First town win of the setup
Wolf is gonna have a fun choice tonight
Tbh I hope Archwing flips wolf cuz that makes this game easy street- Mathdino
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Bro the fact that davesaz made it look like he was a Mason actually makes him more likely to be town
I explicitly called on town to do that to muddy the waters- Mathdino
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If it's 2v1v1 tomorrow you should either quick no lynch and hope for a double cross kill
Or just punishment lynch Assembler- Mathdino
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This is your regular reminder that Assembler is posting in other games- Mathdino
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no
i just know exactly who i would kill if i were each one of the remaining scum (assuming arch flips town)
it's likely we lose if arch is town tbh- Mathdino
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the fuck
are you two monks or masons
or are we just purposefully not outing this shit- Mathdino
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jay what's going on
wtf is your role name
because if assembler/dunnstral are actually monks that changes a lot- Mathdino
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my respect for your towngame has significantly gone up tbh
that's a me/A50-level plan
tbh though had i known you guys were the masons i might not have lynched archwing at all
dunno who i would've lynched tho- Mathdino
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and yeah assembler is bad at this tbh- Mathdino
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i honestly believe you're all punking me right now but i don't really care
jay's breadcrumb was rock solid- Mathdino
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yeah but you didn't outright point it outIn post 924, JaydragonKing wrote:So was my appearant "Vigilante" crumb, Dino.
A50 got overconfident lol
anyway archwing are you mafia or werewolf- Mathdino
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no yeah that guy's scum
he'd be directing our lynch tomorrow if town
you can tell by that alone- Mathdino
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i would honestly laugh if scum decided to kill me instead of a mason/monk
both scumteams seriously fucked up their NKs tbh- Mathdino
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Guys
Guys
Help me get my first 4 scum lynches in a row pls
VOTE: davesaz
It's pretty fucking obviously dave
For once I'm glad I'm alive so I can argue I pushed through all 4 lynches- Mathdino
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I have a case in my head if you guys actually give a shit
Did some night reading, Jay is completely out of the question
So unless Jay thinks it's Raya... It's just Dave. It is.
Assembler, don't vote, I want Jay and Raya to both sign off on this- Mathdino
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Brb I will go quote some posts and you guys can basically write the case yourself- Mathdino
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WELCOME TO MATHDINOS BUILD A CASE WORKSHOP
PICK THE QUOTES YOU WANT AND TAKE HOME YOUR VERY OWN DAVESAZ CASE
In post 39, davesaz wrote:
A bus is only really a bus when it results in a lynch nor near-lynch.In post 34, Almost50 wrote:
dave, please. We're still on page 2 so it's not even that hard to read the whole thing. Busing is not an option on D1 for a 2-players scum team, and it's not like either is pushing Jay for the fun of it.In post 31, davesaz wrote:
Why wouldn't they?In post 29, Almost50 wrote: Well, at least Jay+momo and Jay+Moz are not valid scum team combinations.
Scum vote their partners all the time in a low-risk environment. Surely you must know that.In post 212, davesaz wrote:
What about 138 did you like?In post 140, JaydragonKing wrote: I'd be up for a Beef Lynch, I guess.
--- Post Edit ---
Welp, 138 convinced me completely.
VOTE: Beefster
Is this a real scumread? You didn't seem to have any opinion before this. Any thoughts on what Beefster has posted more recently?
Spoiler:In post 220, davesaz wrote:Beefster might indeed be scum. His posting seems to not be very well-rounded. The post aboutselectively scumhuntingwould be ironic if he's scum, because that kinda seems to be what he's doing.In post 222, davesaz wrote:If Beef is town, talon and Raya look the most opportunistic of the people on the wagon.In post 321, davesaz wrote:If scum are in the people with single digit posts I'd rather not let them get away without having to contribute d1.
I've changed my mind on the Beef lynch and think it is OK, but we have plenty of time to work with.
Technically nobody's due a prod, you can tell clearly by looking at the activity page.In post 337, davesaz wrote:Very interesting to say the least. Hard to say whether it's meant to fool us into thinking that further discussion is dangerous for his team, if it's actually true that it's dangerous.In post 338, davesaz wrote:Possible that his partner pissed him off with a hard bus. Contrary to popular belief that is not impossible in a 2 person scumteam especially if the partner is widely townread.In post 342, davesaz wrote:TBH those posts aren't aimed at anyone in particular being the partner. I don't have an especially good handle on scum this game.In post 443, davesaz wrote:I'm gonna tinfoil that D1 Mathdino could easily have been Beef's partner.In post 747, davesaz wrote:
I posted this literally the first online thing I did waking up that morning. I wanted the day to go longer to have more time to scumhunt. Beef self hammered about an hour later, while I was getting started with work. I firmly believe that beef tried to prevent us from looking further into the people we wanted to be prodded.In post 321, davesaz wrote:If scum are in the people with single digit posts I'd rather not let them get away without having to contribute d1.
I've changed my mind on the Beef lynch and think it is OK, but we have plenty of time to work with.
Technically nobody's due a prod, you can tell clearly by looking at the activity page.In post 750, davesaz wrote:Coupled with my previous post:
I'm extremely curious about Mathdino still being alive. If Mathdino is town, both scum teams worried that the other would kill him so they both picked someone else? Both nights? Why would they do that when they can kill town's driving force? Even if they risk a double kill, getting rid of the strongest town is the best strategy in most cases.In post 320, momo wrote:
If I were to guess, it would be Raya...hopped onto this wagon with a semi-justification but still was a REALLY oppurtunistic vote...reeked scumIn post 319, JaydragonKing wrote:Probably. Any theory, Momo? You love to do conspiracies, so this is up your alley.
If not raya than maybe talon...his vote was oppurtunistic but it felt more n00b as well
BUILD A CASE WORKSHOPIn post 858, davesaz wrote:Sum total of Assemble's beef interactions: nothing
Seriously, look at the iso.
WHERE TOWNBLOCS ARE MADE- Mathdino
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Not shitty
The game just did not go well for him
He thought momo was a monk imo, momo was obviously a Dave kill
Idk who he killed in A50 and talon but he probably thought A50 was a monk/Mason too
Tbh all the people he speculated on being masons/monks together got nkd eventually
Anyway its Raya if not Dave because she's good at bussing as scum
But it's also just Dave- Mathdino
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Cue "Mathdino is lining up lynches" from Raya and Dave
I just quick metad Raya to rule her out and I cannot rule her out even though I wanted to
So whatever
Perfect win when we lynch Dave
It's not me because I'm not a total asshole who busses without consent
No one would want to be scum with me anymore- Mathdino
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Oh yeah
I purposefully muddled associations to protect the mason/monks
While Dave actively searched for them and shot people he thought were masons/monks
Sheep me so I can be insufferable for 30 mins in post-game for lynching FOUR SCUM IN A ROW AND NETTING FIRST TOWN WIN FOR THE SETUP
Oh wait that's literally a good argument for not sheeping me
Fuck
Edit: ok so raya is vla so I guess Assembler can hammer because Dave is too principled to do that- Mathdino
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Beefster shouldn't have self hammered
Kotoko failed to self hammer but i was also okay with the hammer anyway lol
Archwing was gud
So how's it going Jay
Would be cool if you summarised the PT just so I can read Raya- Mathdino
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Jay we won't be playing any games together after this is over D:- Mathdino
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Okay yeah Raya would keep her options open as scum cuz she knows she's not getting you lynched
Still read for the hammer- Mathdino
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How is this game still running
Like he's doing everything but claim scum at this point
I don't think anyone wants this game to last longer, including dave
Hammerrrr- Mathdino
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OK dude I deserve the loss for lynching 3 scum in a row lol
It's multiball, it's not my fault 2 scumteams refused to shoot me when I just wanted to focus on team mafia- Mathdino
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Omfg- Mathdino
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Yo but legit don't blame him
Im not a huge fan of being scum either lol
He's not self hammering because principle and that technically is game throwing
Tbh Raya should've just ended it- Mathdino
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Shouts out to Jay's actually really smart Masons/monks fakeout strategy that Assembler derped all over
Granted, if i were scum and neighbors with Jay, I would've just killed Jay to frame me and dave
That alone is confirmation its not Raya- Mathdino
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Negative
Raya could mislynch me and dave to win, killing whichever monk likes her less before lylo
You could've done the same shit
Guess why i don't suspect you- Mathdino
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It was smart but it would've worked significantly better if remaining scum was mafia tbh- Mathdino
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I die a little bit inside every time I check the thread and see that Dave has not been hammered yet- Mathdino
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Assembler gets on in the afternoon
I assume Rayas driving home from college or something so yeah bye bye
Dave I would not blame you at all for hammering, although I respect that you might think Assembler could come in pushing my lynch (technically possible)- Mathdino
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YAYYYYYYY- Mathdino
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I may never see a greater town victory than this without playing a large with newbscum
Thank you scum for not crosskilling, giving me the opportunity to pick you off myself
Not gonna thank you for leaving me alive but I guess the rest of the town can
Gg
Entire beefster wagon was town lololol- Mathdino
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I hope future iterations of this setup see my advice/strategy
Cuz I genuinely think that's a major part of the win
Scum couldn't figure out who tf the power roles were
Beefster quicklynch was extremely anti scum- Mathdino
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Man, I only subscribed to this cuz I wanted Jay/A50/dave/momo meta. I think JK9++ was still running too so a read on momo would've been nice.
When Shaded lurked out I was like "oh fuck the game's gonna stall out if someone's not generating activity" so I figured I could just as easily get the meta while playing the game.
Figured it'd be some low effort shit, just town leader all over everyone, quicklynch someone because STRATEGY and MECHANICS, softclaim mason/monk by telling people to shut up about associations, and get NK'd by one of the scumteams.
Tbh I expect every lynch I'm on to be on town. This game did not go as expected in so many ways.- Mathdino
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Might've been momo. Sometimes when I play with people I look at some of their recent posts/topics sitewide to get a sense of how they're playing everywhere.
If you and I weren't alive in any games together when I joined, it's probably just coincidence. Don't remember exactly who I was stalking.
Also lol'd at A50's Mathdino vote and felt obligated to follow the game after that xD- Mathdino
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Clearly you do not understand the power of reading too deeply into RVS :O
I'm gonna be really disappointed if A50 hasn't been following this game. After JK9++ I can't fkin wait to see what he's been saying in the dead thread.- Mathdino
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jesus fucking christ jay- Mathdino
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Gonna be pretty sad if it's Raya (cuz I probably lose that 1v1), but luckily it's still dave.- Mathdino
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Benefit of the doubt:
Would be sad if anyone thought low enough of me that they think it'd be within my range to powerbus my partner with 0 suspicion on him without consent.
I've completed 4 scumgames on this site, and every single time I've either not bussed or asked for permission to bus first.
It's even more important in a multiball, where the risk remains that I'd just get immediately shot by the other scumteam.
Unless you think I'm just lying about the "replacing in and wanting to get killed" thing, the best thing for me to do to fulfill that would be to powerlynch someone D1 and get shot. Not to bus my partner and drag out the game.
Plus, literally none of the kills make sense from my perspective except possibly mozamis, but that requires Archwing to think it'd be a good idea to shoot sheep.- Mathdino
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And there's nothing in you that suggests it could possibly be Raya?
That's literally why I lynched you. That lack of consideration and lack of case until after you got hammered was a major scumtell.
Not getting killed is a clue I'm scum in singleball, I agree. But mafia didn't even kill me. Mafia has kept me alive when I was an Innocent Child who called out the entire 3 person scumteam on D1. I've made it to LyLo in so many games despite having a perfect LyLo win record.
Like Archwing, you haven't rectified why I would bus in that situation.
Do you believe that I didn't want to play this game out?
Plus how do either of Almost50 and talon kills make sense from my perspective?
Edit: You seriously think I gamethrew to get the game over with?- Mathdino
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I mean I'm trying to find evidence of davesaz LyLo trolling but I don't really see anywhere he had the opportunity to.
I would also prefer not to go into LyLo again. ESPECIALLY if it ruins my 4-scum streak.
@dave: The point is that you just suggested I might've bussed to get shot and thus fulfill my "getting out of this game ASAP" strategy. I don't like scum but I don't hate scum THAT much.
Edit: So you can't defend yourself while at L-1? You made like 3 posts indicating that you weren't gonna give a case at all.
The only other options are Jay and Raya. It's not Jay. That implies I've overlooked Raya, whose scumgame would be characterised by:
- Pocketing Jay
- Jumping on her partner's wagon on his way down
- Killing A50 who might've outed her/Jay (getting her killed)
- Sheeping me twice while staying under the radar to avoid the NK
- Simultaneously discrediting me out of "paranoia"
- Refusing to hammer you so she doesn't lose cred going into tomorrow
Like, it's kind of consistent, but not nearly as consistent as you/Beefster.- Mathdino
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Hell, I even warn people I'm gonna bus in Town of Salem. I subscribe to mastina's "Never bus unless you have to" strategy. I soft-defended both Not_Mafia and Elmo TeH AzN from a lynch when they were both utterly useless. I hard defended my partners in Hope Plus One.
I'm a good enough scumhunter to nail both mafia. Why would I not just scumhunt the other team?
If I'm scum here, I'm the asshole. That's what you're failing to admit. I wouldn't want to play scum with myself if this were my scumgame.
Beefster's self-hammer is also inconsistent with me being scum tbh.- Mathdino
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Like, this is not play I would be proud of. Playing like this also heavily jeopardises situations in which I'm town and I get scum lynched, because oh shit, Mathdino now has a meta for powerbussing on D1.
This is potentially THE WORST SITUATION to bus your partner on D1.
Worse than singleball.
Worse than white flag.
Worse than nightless.
The only thing it's not worse than is the case in which scum are lovers together.- Mathdino
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Look, numberQ saw the hammer 2 hours ago. The fact that he hasn't locked the thread or said anything implies this is game over.- Mathdino
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I hate this. I PM'd the mod.
Jay, I want you to look over my scumgame with you and my last scumgame with TheGoldenParadox (including the mafia PTs) and seriously tell me if this is my scumgame. I want to hear it from you.
Then, if it's between me and Raya, look over Raya's scumgame(s) and ask if scumRaya would be capable of this game as scum.
And then figure out, between my ISO and Raya's ISO, whose game has been more town-motivated.
Raya wanted to avoid massclaim because massclaim gets her shot if we didn't lynch mafia that day.- Mathdino
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It will be. I don't want you to just blindly follow me here. One-way street to second guessing yourself after the time I drew scum. That kind of strategy only works once. ethos and S_S were both obvtown that game and I won by rhetoric.
This time, the evidence is in my favour, and I need you to review it.- Mathdino
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Jesus christ guys.
Jay, post all your completed scumgames.
I was hardtownreading Jay for the monk claim thing but he's also crazy good at scum.
Both your voting patterns suck. Equally.
I really don't know at this point.- Mathdino
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And what the fuck was this post supposed to be?In post 14, JaydragonKing wrote:Anyone want to bet which scum group is getting hung first? My bet's on the Werewolves. They are just dogs, after all. Clearly incapable of thought and reasoning.
In fact... If anybody here starts showing dog-like qualities, we should Lynch them immediately.- Mathdino
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I'm resigned to the fact that one of you probably killed A50 for calling out your mason team. I don't see why either of you as scum would make the talon kill.
sheep argued hard against townreading Jay.
mozamis townread both of you and scumread Archwing, so that's likely Arch's kill.
Dunnstral and Assembler were pretty much on the exact same page of lynching dave. NAI kill.- Mathdino
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Yeah that's no help at all :/
Go ahead. Also here to answer any questions.- Mathdino
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What about the stuff you said?- Mathdino
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Do you get the impression from my D1 that I was lying about wanting to speedlynch and not provide reads? I recall actively strongarming people into voting. To the point where I explicitly doled out townreads to the entire wagon.
She's correct in that multiball forces everyone to scumhunt. Really the fact that I found both mafia is proof of my abilities more than anything. Like yeah if I were a shit scumhunter and I suddenly flashwagoned Beef D1 and turned out right, that's a bus.- Mathdino
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Then what's your read on her?- Mathdino
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I would actually rather scum vote me so I don't have to be the one to decide. That way it's at least not my fault if we lose xD
More coming- Mathdino
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Don't know what else to tell you.In post 1028, JaydragonKing wrote:Dino, I need to figure out which of you are scum. Give me something else to tell me your not the scum. I know you went hard for both the mafia. I know you're responsible for getting three scum hung. I know that you've been the heart of this town.
But I also know Dave kept saying it was you before he died. I know that you know of my "LyLo" status. I know you did this to me before because you wanted me to vote so you could quickhammer and win.
1. It would be a phenomenally dickish move to replace into Beefster's team, bus the fuck out of him and potentially insta-lose. If you did the meta on me like I asked, you'll see that I always give heads-ups before bussing. You know, so peoplewantto roll scum with me.
2. It would be a phenomenally stupid move to bus my scumbuddy on D1 and then continue to lynch the shit out of scum, putting myself in the crosshairs. You know that I hate being wrong. That applies to me as both town and scum. I don't like to use strategies that could so easily backfire when my team's win is on the line. Do you believe that I believed Kotoko/Archwing would flip scum? Because if so, why would I paint a target on myself by powerlynching mafia when I could just shoot them at night?
3. I repeatedly tried to use multiball to my advantage to get you shot at night. Because I do know your LyLo status. I didn't want you alive for this.
4. I stonewalled the Archwing and Assembler wagons when I didn't have to (when I thought Archwing was town). Town auto-loses if both teams always kill town and town mislynches once. I set up the game for a town win.
5. AGAIN, if you did the meta research, you can probably find something different about my play. I completed a scumgame modded by Creature, go check that out. sheep has always been able to figure out the difference. I'm just not obvtown as scum.
6th reason is as follows:
@Jay: We've played together multiple times now. What's the first thing I do when I join an open game? Feel free to check my thread history for literally the first 2 pages of opens I've played in. It's the same thing every time.- Mathdino
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I'm not talking about voting you first. I RVS wagon mislynchable players on purpose to get their reactions. That has nothing to do with opens.
You only need the first dozen or so of my posts.
Try:
Polygamist
JK9++
Micro 769 (yes I do this in my scumgames too)
Switch
I don't know if this extends back to pre-hiatus but feel free to check there too.- Mathdino
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First thing I do privately is to check the wiki page for the setup I'm playing.
Put yourself in Mathdino-brain. What would I have discovered from checking the setup here?- Mathdino
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Mathdino Survivor
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Bingo.In post 1035, JaydragonKing wrote:2: The Werewolves have won 50% of the time and the Mafia 37.5%. a draw the rest of the time.
You've brought this up as well before when you were giving advice to future players of this style of game.
3 The Scum teams HAVE to eliminate the other one and then control 50% of the town,or be able to not be prevented.
I'm unfortunately using self-meta from Polygamist, but my argument there was "Scum wins almost every time that the town plays normally. Therefore, we should do something previous towns have never done before, and random speedlynch".
If I look at the setup and notice scum constantly wins, I'll think, okay, scum wins if things go like always, and town MIGHT win if we mix it up. That's why I used the speedlynch + PR-masking strategy. I'm a good PR hunter. Doing what I did as scum would've crippled me.
Point is, I checked the setup, realised this is scumsided, decided why (masons/monks are easy to hunt for), and inoculated against it. I would've had no reason to do this as scum when I could've just played like normal, fucked over the other 3 scum, and coasted to endgame with no PRs left (cuz I shot them all). - Mathdino
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