Is anyone ever going to organize a The Mole game on here

For large social games such as Survivor where the primary mechanic is social interaction.
Harambey180
Goon
 
User avatar
Joined: January 14, 2018
Location: Planet Earth
Pronoun: He

Post Post #0  (isolation #0)  » Tue Feb 06, 2018 10:27 am

Cuz then I'd like to help with ideas. Got loads of 'em.
Taking a quick look over this forum, it's been like 4 YEARS since the last The Mole game on here.
I really hope that someone that is already allowed to moderate games (I'm not) is willing to or planning on organizing such a Social Game on here. Just a shout from me that I really want to help those ppl.
But honestly we really need to organize one. 4 years, the next one is from 6 years ago.
And looking at it quickly it also looks like a The Mole game never even made it to the end here... :igmeou:
Most intelligent primate on earth
Moderating: Runner-Up

Harambey180
Goon
 
User avatar
Joined: January 14, 2018
Location: Planet Earth
Pronoun: He

Post Post #2  (isolation #1)  » Tue Feb 06, 2018 10:48 am

Yeah but still, that one didn't finish Xalxe if I'm correct.
None of them did.
I want to help n make sure that there's gonna be a The Mole game that works successfully and gets finished.
I think I got some great ideas to make it work.
Most intelligent primate on earth
Moderating: Runner-Up

Harambey180
Goon
 
User avatar
Joined: January 14, 2018
Location: Planet Earth
Pronoun: He

Post Post #4  (isolation #2)  » Tue Feb 06, 2018 12:32 pm

In post 3, KittyMo wrote:I have a fair amount of task ideas drafted for an 8-10 player low-twist mole game that I just transferred into a Private Topic and would be happy to work with co-mods on. I do not personally meet eligibility requirements for Large Social Game modding, but I'm not sure that's an actual requirement for Mole games specifically.


Yeah I'd like to see what kinds of things you're thinking of.

Wouldn't it be a good idea if we gather all the people that are thinking about contributing to The Mole forum games? Then we all could make genius ideas for The Mole games.

Also I'd say short ones - let's say 5, 6, 7 players - are more fun, when you do them frequently even more fun. Like a series. And then people can earn points based on how well they did in one event. And like at the end of the year you get a reward for it - like a nomination, don't know the extent of which it is possible.
But mainly, we should gather The Mole forum game enthusiasts.
Most intelligent primate on earth
Moderating: Runner-Up

Harambey180
Goon
 
User avatar
Joined: January 14, 2018
Location: Planet Earth
Pronoun: He

Post Post #7  (isolation #3)  » Tue Feb 06, 2018 2:17 pm

In post 5, xofelf wrote:There is one mole game that finished that I know of: viewtopic.php?f=121&t=18735


Wow that's actually really superb! Me sob irl that it's the only one that was finished... though I gotta say with a quick look at it, it was a masterpiece.
Most intelligent primate on earth
Moderating: Runner-Up

Harambey180
Goon
 
User avatar
Joined: January 14, 2018
Location: Planet Earth
Pronoun: He

Post Post #9  (isolation #4)  » Tue Feb 06, 2018 2:29 pm

In post 8, Ether wrote:Hi! I'm typing this here, but we talked in SiteChat. I was Telephone Cat.

All of the Mole games run in the past few years, to my knowledge, have been abandoned. (Blackberry's Toadstool Traitor series has the most famous completed mole games on the site. They had activity problems too, but I think those were mod-side.) This isn't the only site I've seen that pattern on. I like The Mole and I've thought about running one too, but there are a lot of issues that make running one a lot trickier than something like Survivor.

Winning The Mole on the show isn't binary; you have to weigh getting to the end vs. actually getting decent money for winning. On forums, the prize is imaginary, so lots of people will just ignore it entirely and blatantly shit on everything to maximize their chances of getting to the end. And yeah, if you want to only let in people who'll cooperate, then that's your prerogative, but it's sacrificing a major facet of the show*.

So generally you want to make the win condition binary somehow, and then find an incentive for people to work together anyway even though most of them will lose. Usually that means putting in a way for the mole to win if the pot is too low. The trouble is that deciding what's "too low" is kind of hard. Setting the bar is easy when the players are competing against each other, they're doing it for you. In The Mole, you need to figure it out yourself.

Activity's also an issue. Survivor votes out inactive players who can't defend themselves; The Mole doesn't really stop them from coasting as long as they're still handing in their quizzes. And The Mole challenges tend to require all hands on deck--the show can't go on without them so well. Vetting the playerlist helps, but you don't really get failsafes if people flake anyway.

So yeah...I think the issues with The Mole are kind of built into the framework of the game. There are ways to get around some of them, kind of, but they're awkward, and mods need to keep all of that stuff in mind or the game will fail. Sorry for the wall.

*And at that point, you could just run a cooperative challenge that isn't the Mole? Like, you talked about lower player sizes. So why not just put 3-6 players together with one of them as a saboteur and run them through a bunch of challenges with no quizzes eliminations at all? Then tally up their successes, make everyone agree on a ranking of who's most likely to be the mole, and decide whether they all won or lost based on those two conditions. I'm just spitballing here, but honestly this feels way easier to run than The Mole. Hell, someone poke me about this after Team Mafia.


I'm working this out.

You could have a series of The Mole stagings, like a couple in a year.
A participant gets points based on how far they came in one staging, and also for how well they did in challenges, and also for how well they did at finding the Mole.
The mole automatically gets points at the start for being the mole, and can also get points based on how well he did at sabotaging and making sure at any challenge that the max. amount of gettable points won't be earned.

And then at the end of the year, the one who is highest on the rankings will get a nomination on this forum and everyone will know about it. Then it's also for the target to be first on the rankings.
And for the fun of course.

Heck yeah it's for the fun. If all participants just realized this and nothing would go wrong.
Most intelligent primate on earth
Moderating: Runner-Up

Harambey180
Goon
 
User avatar
Joined: January 14, 2018
Location: Planet Earth
Pronoun: He

Post Post #12  (isolation #5)  » Tue Feb 06, 2018 2:39 pm

In post 10, Ether wrote:
Harambey wrote:and also for how well they did in challenges,
Elaborate on this?


Well in challenges where you are able to earn points or money...
They can get points for the rankings based on how much they earned for the pot maybe?
That could motivate them to not be a dick during the challenges. I think that a shoutout all over the forum can be enough motivation?
But honestly there's no real thing that will motivate them enough.
Hopefully there's more than one person (being me) that actually would play the game reasonable. There's gotta be 10 ppl that won't be trolls in The Mole forum games, at least not if they're like The Mole-fans themselves. I guess they wouldn't.
Most intelligent primate on earth
Moderating: Runner-Up

Harambey180
Goon
 
User avatar
Joined: January 14, 2018
Location: Planet Earth
Pronoun: He

Post Post #14  (isolation #6)  » Tue Feb 06, 2018 3:00 pm

In post 13, Ether wrote:Individuals aren't really supposed to carry Mole challenges, though; it's supposed to be cooperative. And on top of making some kinds of challenges impossible, it throws in incentives to sabotage other people's scores as long as it doesn't hurt yours. You can complain about people playing the game wrong, but it really does boil down to bad incentives. Vetting is just a band-aid.

You could weight the leaderboard so that games that earned more total money are worth more, I guess.


Please don't tell me all people on the internet are so selfish.
No way there aren't less than 10 people that want to play such games realistically and rationally and not as selfish as you describe.
All we gotta do is find those people and play the game.
Most intelligent primate on earth
Moderating: Runner-Up

Harambey180
Goon
 
User avatar
Joined: January 14, 2018
Location: Planet Earth
Pronoun: He

Post Post #22  (isolation #7)  » Wed Feb 07, 2018 7:02 am

In post 16, CuddlyCaucasian wrote:I have an idea! I have an idea!

Run two concurrent games of The Mole, each with 10 players. Both games have the exact same challenges, typical mole stuff, with one mole in each game. Everything plays out as normal, with one player "winning" each game. However, the ultimate victor of the game is the winner of the game that accumulated a bigger prize pot. Obviously neither game will ever be given any indication of how much money the other game is making.

This doesn't exactly solve the problem of the Mole needing motivation to tank challenges and also to avoid being detected though. A way to get around this is to have the following conditions for Mole victory: 1) be part of the game with the lower cumulative prize pot at the end, and 2) on the final question of the Mole quiz (Who is the Mole?), never be unanimously picked by everyone else as the Mole before final three.

So essentially, it's possible to have either one of two winners, depending on whether the more effective Mole is also able to go undetected.


I'm trying to work out something that has two games running at once.
It'd be something like 6 or 7 players.
And when both games reach 4 players, then they are going to do a combined challenge. So with 8 players of which 2 Moles.
I probably will discuss this with KittyMo cuz I'm in a PT with him about The Mole.
Most intelligent primate on earth
Moderating: Runner-Up

Harambey180
Goon
 
User avatar
Joined: January 14, 2018
Location: Planet Earth
Pronoun: He

Post Post #24  (isolation #8)  » Wed Feb 07, 2018 9:10 am

In post 23, pablito wrote:I played a concurrent mole game with two sides. Got to the end on the losing team and lost. It's not a bad mechanic. Combining games and eliminating moles though is not usually good. I've seen that before and not so fair for one side.


But if both games have, like, 1 Mole and 3 contestants, they could do one combined task right? Just one, that's oughta be possible.
Also, especially in the Dutch version, with TV shows there's always a group of people that are like 'WHEN WILL THERE BE TWO MOLES??'
So then here there would be one task with two moles in it.
It's not that bad though. And the money earned in the task will count to both games individually. It is a possibility I almost know.
Most intelligent primate on earth
Moderating: Runner-Up

Harambey180
Goon
 
User avatar
Joined: January 14, 2018
Location: Planet Earth
Pronoun: He

Post Post #28  (isolation #9)  » Thu Feb 08, 2018 2:01 am

In post 27, CuddlyCaucasian wrote:
In post 26, pablito wrote:2 moles in final task means one can rest and hide which is not fair to that side of the game. Mole is a game where balance and fairness has to be well planned. This is an am additional concern in developing these games. Modding the mole and writing these challenges is infinitely tougher than survivor.

^ This. The main reason I haven't run a Mole game is that it requires so much more creativity and carefulness in the design process


Well I've seen some stuff of KittyMo and she's not even that creative at all yet she has enough challenges for an entire game on here.
I know with my creativity, I could have enough for at least 10 games. Whether I'm going to held all 10 games will remain the question but my creativity has no boundaries. Assumably because I've seen a lot and know a lot, and my creativity helps to turn them into challenges? We'll see, but I hope to at least held one one day... still have to wait at least 2 months though before I'm 3 months on this site :oops:
Most intelligent primate on earth
Moderating: Runner-Up

Harambey180
Goon
 
User avatar
Joined: January 14, 2018
Location: Planet Earth
Pronoun: He

Post Post #32  (isolation #10)  » Thu Feb 08, 2018 10:21 am

Being creative as in being able to come up with unique and exciting challenges/tasks that fit in games like The Mole.
I think I've got loads of creativity for that :igmeou:
Most intelligent primate on earth
Moderating: Runner-Up

Harambey180
Goon
 
User avatar
Joined: January 14, 2018
Location: Planet Earth
Pronoun: He

Post Post #34  (isolation #11)  » Thu Feb 08, 2018 11:01 am

In post 33, Fluminator wrote:I don't doubt it, but I think your post saying kittymo wasn't creative came out a little wrong and you sound a little arrogant saying your creativity knows no bounds haha.


Did I word it like that?

Well I meant by it is that KittyMo is creative enough to have ideas for a forum The Mole game like the ones she showed me in her PT. That's already pretty creative.
I considered myself to be very creative out of context with KittyMo actually.
Besides she said in the PT herself that she thinks she's not creative enough to come up with a lot of own ideas for tasks. Now you know the context and I wasn't trying to be too arrogant :oops:

Creativity knows no boundaries. Anyone who is creative has no boundaries when it comes to being creative. For some ppl it's just easier to get closer and closer to the boundaries.

I'm having way too complicated thoughts, give me mental help please. :shifty:
Most intelligent primate on earth
Moderating: Runner-Up

Harambey180
Goon
 
User avatar
Joined: January 14, 2018
Location: Planet Earth
Pronoun: He

Post Post #37  (isolation #12)  » Thu Feb 08, 2018 12:10 pm

Well then I apologise for saying what I've said. Should of worded it differently but I do not always think hard enough about how I am going to word my thoughts, which probably causes for a lot of unneeded miscommunication and arguments.
They didn't really surprise me 'that much', that's probably how I should have said it. They were really good challenges and honestly it's really hard to have 'wow!'-challenges for forum games... should have said that too probably cuz then you're missing the context of my thoughts.
The ideas you had brought up nonetheless were really good for a The Mole game. Just not in my honest opinion that it would form the best The Mole forum game out of all but still really decent and better than usual.

Again my apologies :oops:
Most intelligent primate on earth
Moderating: Runner-Up

Harambey180
Goon
 
User avatar
Joined: January 14, 2018
Location: Planet Earth
Pronoun: He

Post Post #45  (isolation #13)  » Sun Feb 11, 2018 9:27 am

In post 44, Ether wrote:I can link to a bunch of finished ones. But they're all very, very old.

Also, I'm really curious now what challenges Harambey's got up his own sleeve.


I'm planning on making a PT for that where I can store all my ideas, but first I need to contact the Social Game List Moderators and they haven't responded in days :shifty: Because I'm not on this site for 3 months yet so I can't make PT's myself. I need to have a word with them first for that.

When that happens, I'm gonna list all the ideas I have there, listed in 'Ideas based on TV shows', 'Ideas based on other Mole games' and 'My own ideas'. Of course with making sure it's possible for a forum game.

There's quite a cpl good ones that I have in mind and the ones KittyMo showed me were also really good for forum games.
Most intelligent primate on earth
Moderating: Runner-Up

Harambey180
Goon
 
User avatar
Joined: January 14, 2018
Location: Planet Earth
Pronoun: He

Post Post #47  (isolation #14)  » Sun Feb 11, 2018 1:24 pm

In post 46, xofelf wrote:If you need us to do specific things, you can always PM us!


Contacting you is exactly what I did days ago and you're not even responding there where I made first contact :shifty:
Anyways sure, we should talk about what I have in mind for The Mole forum games. You could be part in it, you'd fit in my plans I think and you would surely be a great person to make some changes and guide me a bit :D
Most intelligent primate on earth
Moderating: Runner-Up

Harambey180
Goon
 
User avatar
Joined: January 14, 2018
Location: Planet Earth
Pronoun: He

Post Post #49  (isolation #15)  » Sun Feb 11, 2018 2:46 pm

In post 48, xRECKONERx wrote:I don't have any PMs from you.


No I tried to site chat but I couldn't site chat you so I didn't say anything to you.
But I did try to site chat with xofelf and Cuddly but that was days ago already.
Well I'm glad that I finally get you guys on it. :D
Most intelligent primate on earth
Moderating: Runner-Up

Harambey180
Goon
 
User avatar
Joined: January 14, 2018
Location: Planet Earth
Pronoun: He

Post Post #51  (isolation #16)  » Mon Feb 12, 2018 3:59 am

Ah well then it's OK I guess. I've received a message from Reck already that I could make a PT for my The Mole plans and I'm going to invite you guys too because I could use your help a bit when I'd put it to reality.
Most intelligent primate on earth
Moderating: Runner-Up

Harambey180
Goon
 
User avatar
Joined: January 14, 2018
Location: Planet Earth
Pronoun: He

Post Post #54  (isolation #17)  » Thu Apr 19, 2018 2:04 am

In post 53, Nancy Drew 39 wrote:That reality show, is. the closest one to Mafia. If someone ever does one; there’s a really ggod chance, I’d sign up.


Well, I realized a cpl days ago that last Saturday, I've been a member of this site for 3 months which means I'm now able to host mafia games myself and also Large Social Games.
So I might actually do this in the near future. I'm a bit busy at this very moment though, it'll probably be in a few weeks at soonest.
Most intelligent primate on earth
Moderating: Runner-Up

Harambey180
Goon
 
User avatar
Joined: January 14, 2018
Location: Planet Earth
Pronoun: He

Post Post #60  (isolation #18)  » Fri Apr 20, 2018 1:04 pm

I'm thinking about doing it but I have no idea how I'd have to organize it. Even if I had an idea, I'd have to get everything clear for myself by talking to, for example, the LSG mods. And then still I'd be quite lost and probably wouldn't want to be the host :/
Most intelligent primate on earth
Moderating: Runner-Up


[ + ]

Return to Large Social Games