Open 709: Masons and Monks (Game Over)

[JaydragonKing]

Spoiler: Not good for Dave

I am thoroughly convinced that Dave is our werewolf; his interactions with Beefster look really bad.

Point it out for the rest of us?

I'm not 100% convinced Archwing is mafia, but it makes the most sense. If Archwing is town, Dunn is the next person I'd look into for mafia.

Why? Why?

The sum total of the Dave-Beef interactions.

VOTE: dave
For suggesting a vote based on activity

It's fairly common for scum to RVS their partner.

UNVOTE: davesaz
Gut town read on dave.

He's done nothing to justify this unless Beef knows Dave's alignment, and with this setup and Beef's flip that's only possible if they're partners.

Too many people on the list that I've never seen to make a properly informed choice.

I'd go with a talker though, so clearly not Dunnstral or Assemble. Probably Almost50 or Beefster. They won't get lynched for inactivity and if I had to bus there would be a way to make it seem reasonable.

"If I had to bus"
That in itself is a major scumslip.

Beefster might indeed be scum. His posting seems to not be very well-rounded. The post about

selectively scumhunting

would be ironic if he's scum, because that kinda seems to be what he's doing.

I'd be up for a Beef Lynch, I guess.

--- Post Edit ---

Welp, 138 convinced me completely.

VOTE: Beefster

What about 138 did you like?
Is this a real scumread? You didn't seem to have any opinion before this. Any thoughts on what Beefster has posted more recently?

It's only fair that I say what I think in conjunction with the Beef wagon. I'm ambivalent on Beefster at that point and think that wagons serve a purpose regardless of the alignment of the target -- obviously scum is better. I have noticed the Dino/Beef discussion but I'm tired right now and would rather do my deep thinking later.

Wiffle-waffling back and forth on whether or not Beef is scum.

If scum are in the people with single digit posts I'd rather not let them get away without having to contribute d1.
I've changed my mind on the Beef lynch and think it is OK, but we have plenty of time to work with.
Technically nobody's due a prod, you can tell clearly by looking at the activity page.

Note that this was when Beef was at L-1.
As for Dunn being mafia if Arch flips town, that's mainly because he suddenly comes out of nowhere the day after one mafia is lynched and pushes Archwing. Now, I honestly believe this is because of partner analysis and something out-of-game moving Dunn to post, but if Arch flips town the only explanation I can see is that Dunn is mafia who'd been relying on Kotoko until the lynch.

Yeah, I don't think he'd put his faith in the Assemble save, Dino.

--- Post Edit ---

You god damn sniper, Assemble.

[JaydragonKing]

Still funny you came in mid-day one and expected to die night one as well. Look at you now.

[JaydragonKing]

I KNEW YOU WERE STALKING ME. I KNEW IT.

But yeah, now we gotta wait on Number to announce the result.

[JaydragonKing]

I don't believe in introductions. I'd rather let my actions talk for/about me.

VOTE: Mathdino

For not being in the game!

Holy shit I just noticed that. You weren't even in the game yet you got the first vote.

[JaydragonKing]

I still see Assemble on, so I wanna ask... Did anything juicy happen between you and Dunn as the Monk's last night? Did you cuddle up for warmth?

[JaydragonKing]

You jelly cuz you were alone last night?

[JaydragonKing]

You jelly cuz you were alone last night?

Still waiting to confirm if you were lonely, Dino.

[JaydragonKing]

... Dino, lease tell me this is a long con from Dave.

Please tell me I'm not going into LyLo again.

[JaydragonKing]

... Dave, he's already talked about Raya and Assemble is the Monk. You can only be talking about me.

[JaydragonKing]

I wasn't going to comment on that, but when I saw Assemble vote, I checked the activity log and number was there. He's probably coming up with the flavor text or something. Or doing real-life stuff.

And fine, Dino. I asked Raya to look into all of us but I don't know if she did or not. I'll get her side of the story during the night if it's needed.

[JaydragonKing]

Dino, I'm going to start saying stuff from the Mason PT, but I'll respond to your request first.

Newbie 1835 and Micro 775 are my scum games. The first one was my first ever game so I don't know if it's much help, and the second one was a weird 3P that you already read.

[JaydragonKing]

I tried in the Mason PT to get the answers from Raya about her response to the accusations of her and her opinion on post #1005. And I can't quote it exactly so I gotta paraphrase, but here it is, all from the same post-

"It's a good case against me, sure, even though I think it's twisted. It could be the true from your eyes Jay, but that's not what happened."

"I could go in depth, but I'd rather read both of your ISOs again."

"Both of you guys seem so town for me. I'm going back and forth on who's scum."

And this is later in the thread-

"Rereading again. Keep in mind it's Multiball and Dino had to hang two scum regardless."

And the final thing she said before the thread locked was-

"Could have been a Bus. Gonna reread to see if this is possible, however."

[JaydragonKing]

Gimme a sec, I was mainly trying to pry whatever I could out of her, but yeah let me look at mine again.

[JaydragonKing]

One of the things I said was that if I was only going from a game thread perspective and nothing elsa, I'd follow you in a heartbeat over her. I had even brought up you finding three scum. That's when she responded with the "Don't forget it's Multiball though" thing.

I also brought up the possibility that you honestly didn't think Beef would get lynched because I thought that's where she was going, saying you did it on accident.

The first thing I said night 4 was "we need to talk". It didn't go as well as it should have. I also basically joke posted since it took her so long to post. Saying I was lonely. Weird stuff.

[JaydragonKing]

I said that to her because I wanted to see where she was going with that line of reasoning. I didn't really get an answer to that.

I think I had said on day 4 some of the things she had said previously, right? We had three days to talk but we barely did anything after night one.

[JaydragonKing]

I don't know how to deal with Raya not being here, but we have to ask questions to even figure this out.

If I want to, I can take Raya's messages in two ways.

1. As a scum who's in V/LA and uses it to her advantage to not give me much information.
2. As a townie PR who's trying her best even though she goes on ski trips.

Dino, I need to figure out which of you are scum. Give me something else to tell me your not the scum. I know you went hard for both the mafia. I know you're responsible for getting three scum hung. I know that you've been the heart of this town.

But I also know Dave kept saying it was you before he died. I know that you know of my "LyLo" status. I know you did this to me before because you wanted me to vote so you could quickhammer and win.

--- Post Edit ---

My read on her is dependent on what your response is to this.

[JaydragonKing]

In JK9 you not only voted for me first but nearly lead me to my lynch. That's my other experience in an open with you.

But going from this, the first thing you did was try to protect the PRs - the Monk's and Mason's in this case. And I've skimmed other games your in, and that does seem like your town play.

If I think about it, I really just got paranoid about you this game because everyone kept saying it was possible you were scum.

[JaydragonKing]

Yeah, I noticed the same thing as before with this game from that Poly whatever game. You went out your way to say 'dont out possible pairs' and stuff. I assume that means you do try to protect the PRs with a decent wagon of a player who is in the scumlean catagory. I don't know what elsa to look for.

[JaydragonKing]

I'm just gonna list the things I'm reading off the wiki now.

1: It's possible for a Monk to be Mafia, likewise with a Mason being a Werewolf. Both Monk's can't be Mafia, both Mason's can't be Werewolves.

I can see the relevance of this point now but I don't think that's what you mean.

2: The Werewolves have won 50% of the time and the Mafia 37.5%. a draw the rest of the time.

You've brought this up as well before when you were giving advice to future players of this style of game.

3 The Scum teams HAVE to eliminate the other one and then control 50% of the town,or be able to not be prevented.

That means yada yada and that the scum really do focus on getting the other team hung.

I don't know what else there is, Mr Layton. Can I use a hint-coin?

[JaydragonKing]

Can you atleast confirm that the stuff I said about you from the PT is true? Specfically the fact that you said at a minimum of three times that you'd reread the thread?

[JaydragonKing]

Part Joke post, part bait for someone like Almost who'd use it against me later to try to read into it too hard, and part a way to have a backup plan to signal the Monk's that "Hey, let us take the bullet for you so you can get the Werewolves since the mafia are dead" scenario that actually happened.

My crumb was multi-purpose.

[JaydragonKing]

Are you talking about day 4, when Assemble screwed over the plan?

Or are you asking why I really did NOT want to die as a Mason day 1 and panicked when you said what you said in your own words to get me shot?

[JaydragonKing]

Right, got it.

Shit, you're gonna wanna stay alive for your faction as both a TPR and as scum.

That is sadly true, but considering how I play normally already, That's not as bad for me, though it can be AI if you look for it.

Do you think Raya's tried to survive as hard as me? Less? More?

[JaydragonKing]

... Actually, when you put it like that, which one of us pushed what?

Looking back she stayed on the Wagon day one for Beefster while I got off and challenged it.
Day two me and you pushed hard for Koko and I see her vote on Archwing. Then she tells me in the PT that's her big scum target.
Day three she didn't vote at all for the person she thought was scum because she was on V/LA. But since she had me to help push, it went through.
She said she would hammer day four but Assemble did it instead.

[JaydragonKing]

It's not. It's the truth. I DID try to challenge it because I thought lynching someone else would have been a good idea.

But now with hindsight, I see I actually followed the Mafia with my vote. I massively fucked up.

[JaydragonKing]

A better idea to Lynch Elsa? May I ask for a rewording of that?

[JaydragonKing]

Pedit: nevermind. I'm a dum dum.

[JaydragonKing]

Lynching elsewhere and not me? Well I see a green name on my rolecard along with the maroon/brown of the Mason.

But if I am to be serious, do you notice that Raya STILL doesn't scum read me but just thinks your more likely town so will hang me by default? That day one vote could have been a reason for her to push me. The fact that I mainly followed you day two and day three could have been another. But she doesn't. No case against me.

Do you feel comfortable with the idea to lynch someone who's "less town" without actually trying to figure out why they're scum? When the person themselves can point to those reasons rather easily?

[JaydragonKing]

Well I never would have figured that out. My mind works differently.

Because I remember seeing someone post this in another game: "When there's literally zero push against the first RVS wagon, more times then not that person is probably town." It seemed like a good idea to see the other options at the time.

[JaydragonKing]

I legit don't know where I got that train of thought. Actually, that may be how I think of it NOW because of a certain other game I'm currently in is doing... (#711plug)

I don't remember what I thought of it off the top of my head, so I reread it... And I had unvoted out of spite against Dave and Almost's reasoning and got on the Assemble wagon because I was scum reading Almost at that point and wanted to Lynch someone he wasn't trying to Lynch.

Jeez, past me is petty.

[JaydragonKing]

Yes I am.

[JaydragonKing]

VOTE: Raya36

[JaydragonKing]

My heart is literally racing from seeing that vote. I thought you'd unvote Instantly to try to catch me or something.

[JaydragonKing]

Yeah that's just me having the jitters.

Holy shit that was a miracle.

[JaydragonKing]

Yeah, that's honestly what I was going for, but I knew you had to be the one to vote her or you might have caught on.

[JaydragonKing]

I killed talon just because he was a non-presence and he was a noob. Then I killed sheep/Momo because that slot was hard against me. Then I killed the Monk's because I'm a Werewolf.

[JaydragonKing]

Like you said, I was actually gonna kill Raya at that point and mislynch Dave and you.

[JaydragonKing]

I thought I lost when Almost called out Raya AND Beef as my partners, then Beef subsequently self-hammered.

Then I thought that I'd still lose when Koko died easily because I had no idea who the other scum was.

Then I gained a little hope when you started townreading me and we hung Archie.

Then I nearly had a heart attack when you said "yeah it's not Jay" at the end of day 4.

And when I saw that Raya wasn't defending herself well and you finally cast your vote... I literally smiled.

I was the little Werewolf who could.

[JaydragonKing]

High-key, if we get to LyLo and I'm dead by that point, just lynch Jay. Or do it the day before LyLo.

[JaydragonKing]

I even went out of my way to tell you that he HAD to be talking about me, Dino. That's how cocky I got about my win at that point.

[JaydragonKing]

Because you saw what happened. Everyone kept questioning "Why the heck is Dino alive right now?". Any thing I did that COULD have drawn attention to me was nullified by him just existing. You saw how literally nobody even thought it was me Day 4.

[JaydragonKing]

I even gave you guys a big-ass hint when day 5 started that it was me. But you ignored it.

[JaydragonKing]

Wanna know something funny, Dino?

I particularly left you a hint you skipped over.

[JaydragonKing]

As always, the alderman is already there when the villagers arrive. He is kneeling - no, almost crumpled - at the base of the tree. There is a slouch in his shoulders unbecoming the normally proud stature of this man. The reason why is evident. Another body, but not like the others. It is posed, leaning against the tree at the center of the village. If not for the brutal and bloody lacerations across its flesh, you might think it were simply resting.

Carved into the tree is a simple phrase - a taunt, a mocking epithet.

Final Chance

It is a dare from the remaining werewolf, a confident proclamation of their own victory. Silence fills a few moments, as all gathered stare at the body and the phrase. Finally, the alderman rises. It is time.

When I carved a goddamn taunt into the middle of the town, that's what.

[JaydragonKing]

I highly recommend the Werewolf thread for context, by the way.

[JaydragonKing]

I think I can say that if Dino wasn't around to get the Mafia for me, I'd have lost hard. So thank him as well guys.

[JaydragonKing]

I did want to make it a Mason semi-victory with you, Raya, but you kinda forced my hand. That and Dino was too hard to Lynch with him getting THREE SCUM dead.

[JaydragonKing]

Yeah, I saw Almost. You read my PTs too? The dead chat was fun.

[JaydragonKing]

... Dave, he's already talked about Raya and Assemble is the Monk. You can only be talking about me.

And I confirmed it. Thanks for not strictly saying it was me though. That helped a bunch.

[JaydragonKing]

Then we got mutual invites, eh? Great!

My first Modded game is gonna be an Open before I move into Mini Themes, Micros, and Eventually Large Themes. Hope to see you there, even as a spectator.

[JaydragonKing]

Your first mistake was underestimating my power.

Your second was thinking you had a chance in the first place.

[JaydragonKing]

Reading your Monk PT was very enlightening, Assemble. And by that I mean yours was the smallest PT, and I had literally no partner for every time I used mine.

[JaydragonKing]

I feel like when the sheep/Momo slot went away and I lost most of my opposition, as well as the mafia killing Moz as a decent chatter, it really did lend to my strength to just keep talking away with Dino and let me get away with more then I should have.

[JaydragonKing]

I was so happy you used it too. You have no idea how much it shocked me to see you actually went for it. Great job, number. Hope you decide to stick around. I might wanna play against you in the future.

[JaydragonKing]

Yeah, I do want to hear his opinion on this. I basically gave him a free scum win even though he did barely anything.

[JaydragonKing]

You may be able to help yourself if you make your Wiki page updated, Dino. I legit just took nearly 2 hours to make a consise compilation of all my games so far. And I only had 8 to deal with.

You can look at mine if you want to rework yours but your four lists games I liked the format of.

[JaydragonKing]

Village Idiot? Did you even see my play? That's actually really... Man.

If you put this win in your wiki you better say I literally did all the work.

[JaydragonKing]

... Yeah guys. Let's congratulate the two Werewolves one more time, okay?

Elsa and Jay are the two best Werewolves we've ever seen. Their Duo prowess is unstoppable. With town could have worked together like the two of them did.

[JaydragonKing]

I'm fighting a losing battle here and I won't give you the pleasure of a longer day.

VOTE: Beefster

AWOOOOOO!!!
Go Werewolves!

That makes your goodbye message even worse because you didn't mean it, you know.

I was so happy about this win but now I'm kinda salty from hearing that.